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Maryland Public Buses Record Passengers' Conversations (washingtonpost.com)
mi writes: You may not have heard of it yet, but Maryland Transit Administration began recording passengers' conversations in 2012 — on its own initiative. Legislative efforts to put an end to the practice failed four times since then — but some State Senators keep trying "What [the MTA] is doing is a mass surveillance [...] I can make an argument to tape everybody, everywhere, everywhere they walk, everywhere they talk, and you can make the excuse for homeland security." If we had competing public transport companies, one could've switched to a privacy-respecting competitor. Alas, MTA holds a monopoly and legislation is the only recourse.
What happens if somebody comes along and says "I want those recordings please. Thank you."? Do they have to be censored? That sounds like fun. They really don't know what they are into.
The new murder thriller by Steven king.
They almost certainly have video surveillance in those busses and trains too, yet no mention of that being "mass surveillance".
In addition, if both conditions are clearly posted in the vehicle, then the rider can choose not to board that vehicle.
I guess I just don't see a problem here unless the surveillance is being done without the rider's knowledge.
My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
What the MTA did / is doing is a crime under Maryland's wiretapping statute. Why have the responsible persons not been arrested and put on trial?
but some State Senators keep trying [.] "What [the MTA] is doing is a mass surveillance
Is it me, or has there been an increase of missing periods in summaries since the last time Slashdot changed ownership?
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Oldest trick in the book.
As long as they're posting that this is happening, I'm moderately ok with this. There is *no expectation of privacy in a public place* so people should not expect that things they say in public will remain private. This is very different from the NSA collection since people expect their phone calls and emails not to be read by anyone other than the recipient.
That said, wiretapping laws need to be changed so that any private citizen can do this as well. In some jurisdictions, it's illegal to record the police. As long as they are subject to the same privacy laws in public areas, I can mostly live with this.
With the recent complaints of racism, sexism, nasty comments, and everything else that people are saying happen to them in public, this adds a layer of transparency to these claims. We'll know exactly what was said on that bus and exactly what was done. That helps the case of justice. But like all things, this can easily be abused....as long it stays sealed for verification of stories and lawsuits, then it can be ok.
If we had competing public transport companies, one could've switched to a privacy-respecting competitor. Alas, MTA holds a monopoly and legislation is the only recourse.
Riiiight... because those competing companies wouldn't try to record and resell your information as a captive population to marketers...
What we really need is private ROADS.
Google the names of senior executives at MTA and have conversations than slander their sexual habits, lack personal honesty, cruelty to animals and studying at a Bible University. Pepper your speech with copious profanity in multiple languages, making the task of humans who listen to this crap more onerous.
Feel free to have such conversations, even if you are alone, which at the least will get you a seat to yourself.
I ask you not to advocate any act of violence against anyone in this, but you can be creative. You and your (imaginary) friend can talk of how your coven of Devil Worshippers plan to put a curse on named senior execs at the bus company. ...or have loud conversations about how you're going to hold noisy messy protests outside the homes of named executives.
The poor sods who have to monitor this will have to pass the 'threats' up the management chain. Enough false positives will make them reconsider their approach.
Dominic Connor,Quant Headhunter
Indeed. I was thinking the same. They would panic if you started playing bits from Tom Clancy films or TV shows like Dexter. Then, once several people are picked up by law enforcement, only to find they've been duped, they may reconsider the error of their ways.
I do find, however, that some people really don't care, and I see this as alarming. Apathetic people are the reason for companies and government getting away with stuff like this. My wife and I always leave our phones in another room when we need to talk about serious matters. Paranoid? No. Cautious? Yes. In fact, just yesterday, the BBC ran a story about mobile phones listening in on conversations...
Is Your Smartphone Listening to You?
My original write-up had a colon there, actually — and the quote itself was inside <blockquote>. The posting /. editor messed up the formatting...
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
how many times have they recorded BANKING info or other types of privileged data??
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03... Audio & Video from several camera on the Albany bus are being analyzed by State Police for use in court.
Seriously, the government folks are absolutely addicted to data.
My data, your data, his data, her data...
Bank records, library records, purchase records, download records, net surf records, TV records, movie records...
Telephone Calls, IM, Emails, Chat, voice conversations.
Try to take it away, and look how they squeal.
It looks a whole lot like a drug addiction.
In comparison to their customers, yes.
/. is getting all upset about the rights of a bunch of poors.
I really don't see why
Now if they tried pulling this kind of stunt on the Google shuttle buses, they'd rightfully riot in the streets.
the preceding comment is my own and in no way reflects the opinion of the Joint Chiefs of Staff
What the fuck America? Look at yourselves and what you've become to! A privacy and security joke that tortures prisoners of war to death (innocent ones too) and spies its own citizens everywhere.
Get a hold of yourself.
Thank you Mi, for that biased and ignorant summary
wow just wow
well hopefully when trump gets elected he will do away with privacy so we don't need to be concerned with it anymore
Seriously, that has to be the dumbest random libertarian aside I've ever seen in an article summary. "If we had competing public transport companies, one could've switched to a privacy-respecting competitor."
Seriously? That's how you decide to slip in your political commentary? Come on...
Because it justifies a bigger budget. The precedent it sets (towards authoritarianism) is only a secondary goal, in as much as it opens the door to future spending. Don't underestimate the role money plays in government.
Isn't this a blatant breach of both the constitution and basic human rights?
I mean how can this even be allowed to happen in the first place?
I say Identify, fire and prosecute all the clowns that sanctioned this, and also fire all those that even knew about it and didn't blow the whistle.
If we had competing public transport companies, one could've switched
Major cities do not run public transport because its a money-maker. They run it, usually at least somewhat subsidized by taxpayers, because their city needs an affordable public transportation system to operate smoothly.
The purpose of public transport is to provide a transportation grid that your citizens (particularly those without access to private personal transport) can use to get wherever they want/need to go around your city effectively. In general there isn't competition for that from private companies not because the city doesn't allow it, but because private companies don't want to do that. In fact, the profit motive would not allow them to. If it was left up to competing private companies, the only bus routes a city would have would lead to its racetracks and casinos (but the bonus is the rides would probably be free. At least inbound.).
Record passengers aboard Maryland buses this year! Also, legislative efforts hope to break the record.
Why no, I did not read TFA.
Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
If we had competing public transport companies, one could've switched to a privacy-respecting competitor.
It isn't easy to compete with an integrated and affordable mass transit system on this scale. Not to mention the small problem of finding a competitor who isn't keeping an eye on his own drivers and passengers.
MTA Maryland operates a comprehensive transit system throughout the Baltimore-Washington Metropolitan Area. There are 80 bus lines serving Baltimore's public transportation needs, along with other services that include the Light Rail, Metro Subway, and MARC Train. With nearly half the population of Baltimore residents lacking access to a car, the MTA is an important part of the regional transit picture. The system has many connections to other transit agencies of Central Maryland, Washington, D.C., Northern Virginia, and south-central Pennsylvania (Hanover, Harrisburg, and York): WMATA, Charm City Circulator, Regional Transportation Agency of Central Maryland, Annapolis Transit, Rabbit Transit, Ride-On, and TransIT.
Daily ridership: 392,831 weekday average
Maryland Transit Administration
Two other options jump to mind immediately:
* Public protests
* Legal challenges (maybe)
Publicly shaming the MTA into doing the right thing is always an option.
Depending on state and federal laws, the legal challenges may or may not be an option.
Knowledge is how to play a game, intelligence is how to win, wisdom is knowing what game to play.
If there was actually a sign at the door, clearly visible and impossible to overlook, that stated "EVERYTHING YOU SAY ON THIS BUS IS BEING RECORDED", I'd bet my house that anyone with a choice would start avoiding public transportation. Why? Because it's god damn creepy, that's why.
RTD here in Colorado (Regional Transportation District) does this as well. However the buses have signs in them that are right in your face as you get one stating that your conversation is being recorded. Generally they only use this information to figure out what happened in the case of a fight or an accident. I worked for a contractor that handled some of RTD's services in certain areas. They contract most of the buses/services out to 3-4 contractors. The only time we ever pulled video/audio off the buses was when there was an indecent and generally only in the time frame of the incident. At least with the contractor I worked for that's how it worked, I cant say for the others.
There's no reasonable expectation of privacy on a public bus. If you say something in a bus, you're clearly ok with the other passengers hearing it, so why not the government? Same thing with video surveillance. If anything it provides security in the DC/MD/VA area where without this surveillance it would be super unsafe on the bus/train because mugging and murder is a cottage industry in PG county and other shitty areas around DC. I understand that its a systemic problem and the government (and hence everyone) is mainly responsible for the poverty in the DC area that gives rise to the crime, but I'll still tazer the fuck out of anyone who tries to steal my overpriced tablet and I'm thankful for the protection those cameras provide me.
Google the names of senior executives at MTA and have conversations than slander their sexual habits, lack personal honesty, cruelty to animals and studying at a Bible University. Pepper your speech with copious profanity in multiple languages, making the task of humans who listen to this crap more onerous.
The poor sods who have to monitor this will have to pass the 'threats' up the management chain. Enough false positives will make them reconsider their approach.
More likely you'll be booted off the bus as a damn nuisance to the driver and passengers before you are up to speed and that will be the end of it.
What you are advising of course is a conspiracy to slander and harass MTA execs --- which will end in a generous contribution to your attorney's retirement fund, and maybe a year or so in a Baltimore lock-up, assuming anyone thinks you are worth the trouble. .
Just speak in Klingon and enjoy!
the buses are labelled that recordings are taken for security and law enforcement purposes. it took one TV station a year to kick a FOIA through, but they got the video of one assault last year. it was sliced down to the time before, during, and after the incident. they did not get two days' worth of random wild video.
Clearly, a libertarian would have said "If we had competing private transport companies...". Libertarians advocate less government, not more.
You don't have much understanding of libertarianism, do you?
Buses will probably start blowing up.
This is not taken lightly in this country.
Think it sounds crazy?
Well, not more than 2-3 decades ago, nothing like that happens today could have even been imagined (aside from the 1984 book).
It wasn't that long ago, that you could go to the gate at an airport without metal detectors or security of any measure to meet your loved ones upon arrival.
Simple things like that that one takes for granted, so yes, with more of the control of our vehicles taken away from us, the more of privacy and the greater tracking recording will become.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
This is a public space. You are allowed to be recorded in public spaces.
You are allowed to record others in public spaces. This is your right.
Let's remember last week's ado in Albany about the false claims of assault
on a bus. The liars are now facing penalties and/or jail time for the false
report and for being the actual aggressors in the assault. The actual victims
have been recognized and freed of any charges. This is thanks to the on-bus
video recording.
I'm pretty sure I've seen notices posted on SF Muni buses advising that passenger conversations may be recorded.
SF's MUNI has warnings about audio and video recordings on their busses and cable cars, and has had them over the last 5 or more years Ive been riding with any frequency. Why the outrage now?
A little bit of gum or a blob of glue should fix those microphones before the lawmakers get round to it. Spray paint or stickers for the cameras too.
Self-driving cars will need video recording, at least, internal and external, to fight off gigadollars of lawsuits at first.
People have written about the boon to lawyers in lawsuits if the makers of these things (and home robots and med robots) don't track scam artistry. Think those Chinese accident victim scam artists times a million.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
While there is a lot of work to do in New Hampshire The Free State Project's participants have been very active and thousands of people are moving to fix the issues. It's still better than most states, but that isn't saying much. If you care about liberty and freedom and minimizing government to its absolutes I'd suggest joining the Free State Project migration effort.
If you are for the below your libertarian and should join us in New Hampshire as part of the Free State Project:
Are against laws that enforce monopolies directly or indirectly (ie laws that create barriers to entry for small companies or give rights of way / monopolies to companies in exchange for laying utilities)
Are pro-Uber (ie against requiring licenses to drive a taxi or similar service; further needless restrictions where other solutions will do)
Are against the criminalization of employment (ie are against requiring licenses to work, we can still have certifications and the like, your not in danger from this)
Are against entitlements (ie a company firing you and hiring someone overseas sucks- but your not entitled to a particular job- you should only be entitled to find employment and/or create a business without government approval)
Anti-copyright/patent (this is a restriction on your liberty/freedom)
Don't think nudity should be a crime (another restriction on your liberty/freedom)
Are against closed boarders (ie everybody should be free to come and go from the United States regardless of citizenship or other statuses)
Are against social security numbers, license plates, vehicular registrations
Are against government spying
Against government funded schools (this doesn't mean people below the poverty line can't be guaranteed loans, nor have those loans dissolved if the possessor of said loans is never in a position to pay back said loans)
Against government funded or forced health care
Against social security programs
Against war
Against violence (this is a big key thing)
Support the rights of *everybody* to own and utilize guns (including ex-convicts)
Support the right of the people to travel unhindered
Think that for a crime to exist a person must actually be harmed (little Suzy encounter with pornographic content *isn't* harm; harm == violence / force not moral)
Are against the criminalization of drugs (ie pro- marijuana and even really horrible drugs like heroin)
Are for the removal of under-age drinking laws
Are against under age laws
Are against discriminatory laws involving older adults
Are against requiring insurance (car insurance isn't required in NH already)
Are against marriage laws (unfortunately portrayed another way you'd be for gay marriage or at least against the government being involved in marriage)
Against taxations in general, but particularly taxation that favours a particular group (ie married couples get discounts singles do not, people with children get discounts those without do not)
Use of reasonable counter force in cases of self defence, but against against use of non-consensual violence otherwise (ie you should be pro-legalization of BDSM)
Anything between two or more people whom are consenting individuals that harms nobody else should not be illegal (ie pro-legalization of polygamy, etc)
Think that you can't be harmed by imagery/communications/etc (ie generally speaking, not including seizures, etc)
If we had competing public transport companies, one could've switched to a privacy-respecting competitor. Alas, MTA holds a monopoly and legislation is the only recourse.
Poor little diddums has to deal with ebul gummint.
BAWWWWWWWW.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.