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Eavesdropping On 3D Printers Allows Reverse Engineering of Designs (gizmag.com)

Posted by timothy on from the deep-sneaky dept.

Zothecula writes: 3D printers have opened up all kinds of possibilities when it comes to turning digital blueprints into real word objects, but might they also enable new ways to pilfer intellectual property? Amid all that mechanical whirring, these machines emit acoustic signals that give away the motion of the nozzle, new research has found. And by discreetly recording these sounds, scientists say it is possible for sneaky characters to deduce design details and reverse engineer printed objects at a later date.

26 of 38 comments (clear)

  1. Oh no! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    My Yoda coffee cup will fall into the hands of the Russians!

  2. yet again another by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The issue might be real, but the summary is asshandedly disingenious. There is no "Intellectual Property" to be leaked, unless something copyrighted or patented is being printed, with permission.

    In many cases, physical objects of no artistic value (such as screws) cannot be copyrighted.

    If it's patented, then the leaked info does nothing to bypass the patent liability.

    Seems the whole thing is either a paid hit piece attacking 3d printers, or bad sensationalistic journalism trying to drum up a fake controversy.

    In either case, to avoid rewarding such misbehavior, DO NOT READ TFA.

    1. Re:yet again another by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      You also have the case of making a prototype for proof of concept before making a patent.

      But I think that the idea of eavesdropping on the printer is pretty far-fetched, it's easier to pull that information from the computer or network to the printer. Especially considering the need to physical access to the printer room or a neighboring room.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
    2. Re:yet again another by JaredOfEuropa · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it'll be used for enforcement. I see unmarked vans equipped with mikes driving around the neighbourhood, and the Disney Police busting down your door if they hear you printing unlicensed Toy Story figurines.

      --
      If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
    3. Re: yet again another by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Mod parent up.

    4. Re:yet again another by Sarten-X · · Score: 2

      From a security perspective, this is very interesting indeed.

      For a few decades now, we've been aware of the security threats against networks. There are procedures and practices that can secure a network or computer, and frankly, we don't include those on tours.

      On the other hand, a 3D printer is new shiny technology, and executives love showing off how up-to-date they are by showing the room full of printers. For an attacker, the attack in TFA would be quite simple. During a tour, put a listening bug near the printers, and get early access to prototypes. At this point, such an attack have a very high profit, because you can get actual designs, rather than just occasional descriptions of designs like would normally be expected of listening devices. At the same time, this attack may fall outside existing security plans. Usually the security guys are not looking for audio eavesdroppers to protect physical designs.

      --
      You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
    5. Re:yet again another by davester666 · · Score: 1

      yeah, it's easier to hack the printer to just send out the exact 'program' being printed to you.

      why bother trying to listen to what is being printed and then figuring out what was printed. that's like a low-rez copy.

      it's the difference between ripping a dvd vs videotaping the tv screen and then re-digitizing the recording

      --
      Sleep your way to a whiter smile...date a dentist!
  3. Not surprised, and old news by Firethorn · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Back shortly after WWII, we developed the ability to tell what was being typed by the sounds of the typewriter being worked. Today, we can often do the same if we know the typer's 'fist', the patterns they use to type. Beyond that, you have electromagnetic patterns - record the radio signals, process them, and you can get the image on the screen, the characters typed, even for wired instruments.

    In short, this is neat, but really no big deal.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
  4. Rube Goldberg by ebonum · · Score: 1

    If you have access to the room with the 3d printer, I think you can figure out a much easier way to directly steal the files with the secret design. No need for this Rube Goldberg-esque nonsense.

    1. Re:Rube Goldberg by Rei · · Score: 1

      Does adding the word "3d" to the word "printer" change the story at all? Doesn't the "whirring" of ink printers also give a clue as to what they're doing? Even to my non-computerized ears I can hear a clear difference between when it's printing a lot per line and little per line, whether it's printing colour or text, etc.

      --
      Stale pastry is hollow succor to one who is bereft of ostrich.
    2. Re:Rube Goldberg by Z00L00K · · Score: 1

      Not to mention the classic dot matrix printers - or the Teletype ASR-33.

      --
      If builders built buildings the way programmers wrote programs, then the first woodpecker would destroy civilization.
  5. Works, but pointless. by Areyoukiddingme · · Score: 2

    Why infiltrate the room the 3D printer is in when you can acquire much more detailed and accurate data using a credit card, a hacksaw, and a laser scanner? You buy the product. You scan the outside with the scanner. You saw whatever cross sections are interesting and scan those too, and you're done.

    But hey, that chiming sound you hear is another graduate student getting his wings. Nice thesis project.

    1. Re:Works, but pointless. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      When I first read it I thought the credit card was for popping a lock ... but I totally agree.

      Old-school reverse engineering FTW.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    2. Re:Works, but pointless. by AC-x · · Score: 1

      To be fair I think the idea here is that you're eavesdropping on something that isn't available to buy in shops...

    3. Re:Works, but pointless. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Speaking of which, I wonder what's the state of the art in cheap destructive scanning right now? I see Scotty was a successful experiment, but the resolution is pretty heinously low. Can this sort of thing be done with a laser cutter? Is there some reasonable way to get depth information back from the cutting laser?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  6. REAL WORD by aglider · · Score: 1

    I dont nead 3B pirnters for my real WORD obtiecjs!

    --
    Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
  7. Imagine by SpaghettiPattern · · Score: 2

    I imagine that copying 3D printing files should achieve similar result, admittedly with much less cloak and dagger.

    But I guess I'm an old fashioned day dreamer.

    --

    I hadn't the slightest objection to his spending his time planning massacres for the bourgeoisie... (P.G. Wodehouse)
  8. Great! Is this a new principle? by ls671 · · Score: 1

    Great! Is this a new principle?

    Recording the sound of somebody typing on a keyboard might help cracking the password needed to access the blueprints.

    Recording the sound of a city bus might help to find out where it stopped. Listening around you might help you figure out what people are doing, etc.

    Better yet for all those hypothetical cases;, a video feed!

       

    --
    Everything I write is lies, read between the lines.
  9. non-issue by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1

    while this may have been a fun exercise in hypotheticals, reconstructing an object from the sound a 3d printer makes is the most indirect, difficult and least precise way of getting the information you want. it's fun to think of but it just has no practical application.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  10. nice by amit0150 · · Score: 1

    nice

  11. Re:Waste of research money and time! by kanweg · · Score: 1

    You have to listen in when it is ready.

    Bert

  12. No by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    "but might they also enable new ways to pilfer intellectual property?"

    No, because there is no such thing.

  13. 90% accuracy?! by Bruinwar · · Score: 2

    90% accuracy?! And that is supposed to be useful for something? Seriously, even if someone pilfered the .stl file, the actual 3D model loaded into the 3D printer, all it can tell you is the basic shape. Maybe it can give the an idea of what is being developed.

    That being said, there is a "neat factor" in recording the sound & reproducing the object. But as industrial espionage, this is kina weak. Reverse engineering is a pain in the ass (to do it right) & this would not be of any help IMO.

    --
    SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT
  14. Not new, 3D printer music is already a thing by Kazymyr · · Score: 1

    If you've used a 3D printer it's basically a no-brainer to understand that you can retrace the printhead movement from the sounds the printer makes. Some people have even be making music on their printers.
    http://3dprint.com/29244/3d-pr...

    --
    I hadn't known there were so many idiots in the world until I started using the Internet -Stanislaw Lem
  15. Even if you wanted by mhkohne · · Score: 1

    to steal someone's design, that has to be the STUPIDEST way to do it possible.

    It's like a Bruce Schneier Movie Plot Security Thread contest. Only stupider.

    --
    A thousand pounds of wood moving at 300 feet per minute. Don't get in the way.
  16. problem solved: by steelframe · · Score: 1

    Just put on some tunes, LOUD... Or to be extra stealthy record some random printer noise and broadcast while you print your ultra top secret doodad.