Using Kexec Allows Starting Linux In PlayStation 4

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Using Kexec Allows Starting Linux In PlayStation 4

Posted by timothy on Tuesday March 8, 2016 @03:11AM from the wait-for-the-darpa-supercomputers dept.

jones_supa writes: Team fail0verflow, the hacker group who made Sony PlayStation 4, has introduced another method to start Linux in the game console. Instead of the previous exploit which was based on a security hole in an old PS4 firmware version, the new trick allows a kexec call to start Linux through Orbis OS (the FreeBSD-based system software of PS4). The code can be found in GitHub. Maybe this will lead to more and better PlayStation clusters.

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What? by bondsbw · 2016-03-08 03:14 · Score: 5, Insightful

Team fail0verflow, the hacker group who made Sony PlayStation 4,
Highlighted for the accuracy of this summary.

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1. Re:What? by jones_supa · 2016-03-08 03:22 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Facepalm. It seems that both I and Timothy are sleeping on the wheel. :D
  Anyway, I would also add to the summary that you need some another way to actually make the kexec call. Over at PSXHAX there was posted a new BadIRET exploit last Wednesday. Maybe it works.
2. Re:What? by bigdady92 · 2016-03-08 03:22 · Score: 1
  
  Glad to see the editing is as full of Quality as before with the new owners. Did the new OverLords hire Fudzilla writers as well?
  
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3. Re:What? by dstyle5 · 2016-03-08 03:47 · Score: 1
  
  If you see something referencing "the tame Apple press" or "Jobs' Mob" you'll know that has happened, haha.
4. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 03:47 · Score: 0
  
  It's even a bigger fail since the rest of the summary is inaccurate as well. This is not a trick that allows Linux to be loaded on a PS4: it's code that if you can find a kernel exploit will then allow you to start Linux over FreeBSD. It only works if you already have a working exploit.
5. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 04:12 · Score: 1
  
  I heard the some hackers group attacked Sony, but I was not aware that they actually took over their operations permanently.
6. Re:What? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 06:02 · Score: 0
  
  Timothy is always asleep at the wheel. It's a rare summary posted by timothy that doesn't have at least one glaring factual error.
7. Re:What? by davester666 · 2016-03-08 07:53 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  It was nice of them to turn over production of it to Sony.
  
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What? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 03:15 · Score: 0

"the hacker group who made Sony PlayStation 4"
What?
Okay, but by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 03:16 · Score: 2, Funny

Launching Linux from FreeBSD is also known as "downgrade". Just sayin'
1. Re:Okay, but by KiloByte · 2016-03-08 03:17 · Score: 5, Funny
  
  Launching Linux from FreeBSD is also known as "downgrade". Just sayin'
  Only if you'd run systemd.
  
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2. Re:Okay, but by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 06:52 · Score: 0
  
  Launching Linux from FreeBSD is also known as "downgrade". Just sayin'
  Only if you'd run systemd.
  Or are a hipster.
PS3 clusters were *briefly* interesting... by Junta · 2016-03-08 03:20 · Score: 5, Insightful

The cell processor was very briefly an interesting beast at the time it came out. It represented surprisingly good bang for the buck when the PS3 released. No console hardware before or since has been 'ahead of its time' enough to offset the inherent limitations of a home entertainment device.
Unfortunately, while it had tremendous capability to run certain traditional HPC jobs, it wasn't that good a match for what game developers needed most...
The current crop is particularly less compelling, since they were basically midrange PC at the time of launch.

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1. Re:PS3 clusters were *briefly* interesting... by jofas · 2016-03-08 03:51 · Score: 0
  
  How many times must this be repeated? It's not the hardware, it's the implementation.
2. Re:PS3 clusters were *briefly* interesting... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 04:06 · Score: 0
  
  Unfortunately, while it had tremendous capability to run certain traditional HPC jobs, it wasn't that good a match for what game developers needed most...
  It wasn't even particularly good at HPC. It took so much hand tweaking and optimization to make the flops count it wasn't worth the labor.
3. Re:PS3 clusters were *briefly* interesting... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 04:07 · Score: 0
  
  Unfortunately, while it had tremendous capability to run certain traditional HPC jobs, it wasn't that good a match for what game developers needed most...
  Which is???
4. Re:PS3 clusters were *briefly* interesting... by Scarred+Intellect · 2016-03-08 04:07 · Score: 1
  
  That may be, but it would take a long time to render a Star Citizen scene with a Geforce 2.
5. Re:PS3 clusters were *briefly* interesting... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 04:40 · Score: 0
  
  It's already taking a long time to render a Star Citizen scene. Have they released yet? (Buggy "alpha" modules don't count)
6. Re:PS3 clusters were *briefly* interesting... by Dutch+Gun · 2016-03-08 05:27 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  Unfortunately, while it had tremendous capability to run certain traditional HPC jobs, it wasn't that good a match for what game developers needed most...
  Which is???
  The cell broadband chip was originally designed to be used for multimedia processing. It had amazing vector processing capabilities, but videogame code doesn't have a lot of cases where you're crunching large amounts of data using simple algorithms, as with video decoding. As it turns out, typical game code tends to have lots of branches, special cases, one offs, etc (physics, AI, pathfinding, skeletal animation, etc). I imagine this is also why the major manufacturers returned to a more traditional x86-64 architecture instead of the PPC. The PowerPC had crappy out-of-order processing and branch prediction, and suffers rather badly when faced with branch-heavy code.
  In other words, most videogames require processors that can deal efficiently with branching code and lots of small, irregular data sets via caching. That's pretty much the exact opposite of what the cell is good at. There were some some devs who went through some fairly heroic efforts to squeeze all they could out of the cell, but in the end, all that effort netted about the same results as another couple of general-purpose CPU cores that took almost no coding effort. Most game developers I know disliked the PS3, because to get the same performance as on the Xbox 360 required about 10x the effort.
  
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  Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
7. Re:PS3 clusters were *briefly* interesting... by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-09 00:57 · Score: 0
  
  Most game developers I know disliked the PS3, because to get the same performance as on the Xbox 360 required about 10x the effort.
  Whereas I loved the PS3 for exactly the same reason. Why do developers whine that their job is hard? If it was easy they'd get minimum-wage slaves to do it.
8. Re:PS3 clusters were *briefly* interesting... by Dutch+Gun · 2016-03-09 02:51 · Score: 1
  
  Whereas I loved the PS3 for exactly the same reason. Why do developers whine that their job is hard? If it was easy they'd get minimum-wage slaves to do it.
  Not every programmer enjoys the same sort of challenges. There are always some devs who love getting as close to the metal as possible, doing crazy micro-optimizations to squeeze just a few more cycles from the hardware. It sounds like you're one of those guys.
  Personally, I'd much rather be productive creating an actual game than farting around with (IMO) needlessly over-complex hardware - something Sony (up until the PS4) seemed to specialize in. There are no shortage of challenges beyond hardware-related issues, and every day spent trying to optimize the SPE code is a day you're NOT spending on implementing new game features.
  
  --
  Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
9. Re:PS3 clusters were *briefly* interesting... by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2016-03-09 13:31 · Score: 1
  
  In other words, most videogames require processors that can deal efficiently with branching code and lots of small, irregular data sets via caching.
  That almost sounds like an argument for Forth chip grids. Forth/stack chips were historically excellent at very branchy code.
  
  --
  Ezekiel 23:20
Why? You can build the equivalent for less. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 03:21 · Score: 0

The PS4 is using a customized AMD Jaguar CPU. You can pick up an Athlon 5350 Kit on NewEgg for $125. 16GB of RAM for $60 (PS4 only has 8) and a decent SSD for $100 (PS4 only has 3Gbps SATA II). If you really need blu-ray drop back to 8GB and it's still cheaper. Additionally it's upgradable/repairable where a PS4 really isn't. The PS4 and XBox One aren't the loss leaders the previous generation were.
Hackers made the PS4? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 03:22 · Score: 0

Makes sense if you think about it....
Looks like Timothy is on a roll!
I'm impressed by NotDrWho · 2016-03-08 03:26 · Score: 4, Funny

Team fail0verflow, the hacker group who made Sony PlayStation 4
Well if they built it in the first place, no wonder they're able to hack it.

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Kudos to fail0verflow! by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 03:33 · Score: 0

But I won't buy Sony. Ever. Anything from them. Nada. Niente.
Remember? Fool me once...
Why bother by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 03:33 · Score: 2, Interesting

If freebsd is underneath the whole PS4 system, then why not just use that instead of booting into linux? Seems a little excessive.
1. Re:Why bother by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 06:10 · Score: 0
  
  New project LINCUB
  LINCUB Is Not a Chroot Under BSD. Look for it under lincubhq.com!
2. Re:Why bother by marcansoft · 2016-03-08 06:52 · Score: 2
  
  Because it's not FreeBSD. Just because Sony based their kernel on FreeBSD doesn't mean it has a FreeBSD userland, nor does it mean you can just slap on a FreeBSD userland and make it work.
  You'd have to port FreeBSD all over again - and it turns out that Linux has better off-the-shelf support for the PS4 hardware than FreeBSD does. The only reason Sony didn't use Linux is because of the license, not because it isn't easier to make work on this hardware.
How long by Dunbal · 2016-03-08 03:41 · Score: 4, Funny

Downloading Steam games to play PC games under linux on a PS4... use an xbox controller to play that game and the universe might just end.

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1. Re:How long by neoritter · 2016-03-08 04:28 · Score: 1
  
  Considering xbox controllers have worked on PCs for a long while, wouldn't be a stretch...
2. Re:How long by freeze128 · 2016-03-08 05:09 · Score: 1
  
  So then plug it into a black and white TV....
3. Re:How long by eumoria · 2016-03-08 05:48 · Score: 1
  
  Dunno how proprietary the amd video hardware is in one of those but if the drivers are good enough to display video you could use the stream feature and turn the PS4 into a stream box. Or you could throw it in the trash and build a small PC that will do the same thing better.
4. Re:How long by marcansoft · 2016-03-08 06:55 · Score: 1
  
  We already have 3D working. It's not production-quality but it runs real games with decent performance.
5. Re:How long by jones_supa · 2016-03-08 07:10 · Score: 1
  
  The fail0verflow's GitHub repository contains the needed Radeon patches as well. Basically they only had to add the correct PCI ID into the driver to get started. It seems that further tweaks are needed to make it perfect though.
Re:Why? You can build the equivalent for less. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 03:45 · Score: 0

Does this build require a motherboard, video card and case?
Re:Alternative solution by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 03:45 · Score: 0

You could also keep your sanctimonious opinions of what other do for fun to yourself. What are you frightened of? Someone you don't know defeating a protection mechanism on a device your don't own? Are you so insecure you're going to lose sleep over it? You're just another twatty one-liner poster. Fuck off back to the Daily Mail, eh?
Re:Why? You can build the equivalent for less. by CrashNBrn · 2016-03-08 04:06 · Score: 1

You can build those.
in before "update" by Gravis+Zero · 2016-03-08 04:13 · Score: 2, Insightful

it should only be a day or so before Sony removes this ability for "security" reasons. fuck Sony. yes, fuck Microsoft more but still, fuck Sony.

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Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
1. Re:in before "update" by marcansoft · 2016-03-08 07:00 · Score: 1
  
  They can't remove this "ability" because this "ability" is just a piece of code that runs on any PS4 you can get kernel code to run on.
  It's up to you to figure out how to run the code in the first place. That is affected by updates.
2. Re:in before "update" by Gravis+Zero · 2016-03-08 07:16 · Score: 1
  
  They can't remove this "ability" because this "ability" is just a piece of code that runs on any PS4 you can get kernel code to run on.
  you act as if Sony is incapable of altering the kernel. don't be a dullard, think before you post.
  
  --
  Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
3. Re:in before "update" by marcansoft · 2016-03-08 08:15 · Score: 2
  
  How exactly do you alter the kernel to stop you from running kernel code when you can already run kernel code? I'd like to hear about this magical technology that Sony has invented.
  Try better reading comprehension next time. This is just code. It's not a way to run code. Therefore, Sony can't do anything about it, because there's nothing to be done. Sony can't magically make code stop being code. That's like saying Microsoft is capable of making Linux stop working on an (open) machine you choose to install Windows on.
4. Re:in before "update" by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 16:48 · Score: 0
  
  So are we at the point of just saying Fuck Sonamisoft to cover multiple evil corporations?
Editing by ledow · 2016-03-08 04:14 · Score: 1

"the hacker group who made Sony PlayStation 4"? Really?
Might want to check that.
And I can't find this interesting, when it's basically a way to run Linux on something that we know could run it, whose predecessors have run it, and which is deliberately made not to run it for no real valid reason.
It's not even like a PS4 is cheaper than a laptop or whatever nowadays.
Re:Why? You can build the equivalent for less. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 04:22 · Score: 0

Look @ me!!! I'm so smart!!! I pulled my PeeCee out of a dumpster behind MIT and I didn't pay anything!!!
I don't understand why anyone would ever pay for anything, ever??? Can you explain this??? I'm confused.
Re:Why? You can build the equivalent for less. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 04:28 · Score: 1

the ps4 memory architecture differ from the PC and the xbox one, the memory is GDDR5 shared between the CPU cores and the GPU using a ring buffer. In a typical PC the VRAM is not shared between the gpu and the GPU.
Re:Why? You can build the equivalent for less. by Dunbal · 2016-03-08 04:41 · Score: 1

It starts with your mom and dad being too cheap to pay for a condom?

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Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
Why by aaronclee · 2016-03-08 04:45 · Score: 0

The cell processor was awesome when it first came out. You definitely got your monies worth. It needs to match the components. Let's get rid of the mid-range PC's. -- XML is comparable to violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more. http://mccrearyshealthyhomes.c...
1. Re:Why by dothasmurfysmurf · 2016-03-08 05:15 · Score: 1
  
  What does the home cleaning link have to do with any of this? Just imagine, a Beowulf cluster of vacuum cleaners!
2. Re:Why by KGIII · 2016-03-08 11:24 · Score: 1
  
  It's just new(ish) spam. I assume it's fully automated.
  
  --
  "So long and thanks for all the fish."
Re:Why? You can build the equivalent for less. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 04:47 · Score: 0

Yes. It does. That's why it's called a "kit".
Every fucking article by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 04:55 · Score: 0

How the fuck do the editors fuck up this often? It has to be on purpose, right?
Re:Why? You can build the equivalent for less. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 04:57 · Score: 0

In a typical PC the VRAM is not shared between the gpu and the GPU.
Um, other than capitalization, what's the difference between the gpu and the GPU? ;)
Re:Why? You can build the equivalent for less. by bigsexyjoe · 2016-03-08 05:26 · Score: 1

Okay, in practical terms, what does this get you?

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Not worth clustering as with PS3 by John+Allsup · 2016-03-08 05:40 · Score: 1

Back with the PS3, you had a novel processor (Cell) and the PS3 was a cheap way to get machines with it. With the PS4, you have a mid range AMD APU processor. Newer APUs will probably outperform it in raw performance terms, and clustering will be easier with commodity hardware.

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John_Chalisque
1. Re:Not worth clustering as with PS3 by Junta · 2016-03-08 07:50 · Score: 1
  
  The one caveat being that the APUs are probably still lacking in performance compared to the console APUs (that basically devoted most all of the power/cooling budget to the GPU and a very weak CPU). However a very modest discrete GPU would handily overcome that gap.
  
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2. Re: Not worth clustering as with PS3 by mSparks43 · 2016-03-08 08:06 · Score: 1
  
  clustering was even easier with commodity hardware back in the ps3 days. The horrific 256mb ram meant it didn't even perform as well as a pi2+ does today.
Re:Alternative solution by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 06:10 · Score: 0

Some people don't drink or smoke weed, so their high is up on a horse telling everyone else why what they do and the things they like are better. Gotta get it somewhere!
Re: Why? You can build the equivalent for less. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 06:31 · Score: 0

Nah, just screw it to the bottom of your desk. All the cool kids are doing it.
Re: Why? You can build the equivalent for less. by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 06:33 · Score: 0

Less RAM available to the system?
Re:Alternative solution by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 08:30 · Score: 0

Actually, years ago, someone should have told me just what Kyosuke said right now. It didn't occur to me at the time. Now I just stopped buying stuff like that - muuuuch easier and actually changes things.
Re: Alternative solution by hackwrench · 2016-03-08 10:07 · Score: 1

I've been robbed a few times and buying digital copies and used books are better than buying anything solely on a disk. Stocking up on PS2 and PS1 downloads from Playstation store for PS3. Also, stuff that used to be shareware on Steam, or any old stuff. And bundles.

Don't know when I'll run out of replacement PS3s or maybe get an offer from Sony to migrate my collection to a newer console. Not holding my breath for that last bit though.

But now that I have a legitmate purchase, most of which at one point I had anyways, I won't lose any sleep over torrenting them. Not that I would anyways, but still...
PowerPC was common in gaming... by Kenshin · 2016-03-08 10:43 · Score: 2

The Xbox 360 had a PowerPC-based chip as well, named Xenon. The original devkits for it were PowerMac G5s.
The GameCube, Wii, and Wii U were also all based around PowerPC.

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1. Re:PowerPC was common in gaming... by Dutch+Gun · 2016-03-08 11:43 · Score: 2
  
  Correct - I didn't mean to imply otherwise, if that's what it sounded like. The reason Xbox 360 fared better was because of it's symmetric three-core/six-thread configuration, which was much easier to program than the PS3's asymmetric single PPE + seven SPE configuration. But all the PPC-based chips had the same issue with the CPUs stalling quite a bit in normal gameplay code - there's really very little you can do about that as a developer, as you can only simplify or re-architect your code so much to help the CPU along.
  
  --
  Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
Re:Why? You can build the equivalent for less. by tkotz · 2016-03-08 11:24 · Score: 1

Two things that come to mind are: 1) Different games can allocate RAM differently to Graphics vs Main Memory based on expected workload. 2) Transfer of textures and other graphics components from Main to Graphics Memory is basically instantaneous as one just has to set a flag in the memory manager to mark the page as in GPU space.

Assuming they offer APIs to do this.
Why Hacks? by Anonymous Coward · 2016-03-08 15:06 · Score: 0

Why do we need to resort to hacks to run linux? Couldn't it be turned into a text-based video game and then you just start it like any other game?
Re:Why? You can build the equivalent for less. by bigsexyjoe · 2016-03-09 09:23 · Score: 1

Thanks!

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Re:Alternative solution by K.+S.+Kyosuke · 2016-03-09 13:27 · Score: 1

I have no idea what anything you're so passionately rambling about has anything to do with the freedom of a buyer of a technological device to do with the device whatever the device is capable of. In this case, running computer programs. A personal computer that I can't run my computer programs on is best avoided.

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Ezekiel 23:20