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Why Japan Is Facing Pressure To Return To Military Research (thestack.com)
An anonymous reader writes: China's growing nation status has Japan reconsidering its 70-year old ban on military research projects, as Japanese defense circles actively seek to take advantage of the country's vanguard position in robotic technology. Pressure from the government is also mounting, as authorities try to find means to bring university researchers into the defense fold — particularly to meet the challenge of a more aggressive Chinese military. Funding cuts in Japanese higher education, combined with a weakened economy and governmental austerity measures, may make the allure of military funding irresistible to researchers and academic institutions.
The revanchist Chinese are at their doorstep and making territorial claims. Russia still occupies Japanese territory. And last but not least, they have Obama at their back. What do you think he'll do if war breaks out? Go on Japan! Develop weapons.
I really hope Japan resists becoming more militarised and aggressive. The current pacifist constitution is a model other countries should look too, not one that should be abandoned. Abe wants Japan to become a "normal" country, but look at what "normal" gets us. The weaponry we export in no way makes up for what we waste on wars, and much of it goes to dubious places and killing the families of people who them try to kill us.
More than that, being pacifist has kept Japan safe for decades. The threat is always there, they have rockets and could build nuclear weapons in months, but the fact that they don't have any of it prevents escalation.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
An extremely innovative industrial powerhouse turns to military R&D, what could possibly go wrong.
Or more likely it has to do with China becoming much bolder in it's attempts to take control of the South China Sea and the Spratly Islands. And then there is NK which has launched multiple missiles over them in blatant threat to them.
Not everything relating to global military concerns revolves around the US.
I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
The US doesn't start fights. It imposes itself into fights it has no reason being involved in. Totally different.
Regarding Japan though, I doubt the Japanese are fearful of the US attacking them anytime soon. It's more that they're worried, rightfully, that if China were to invade them the US may or may not help defend them depending on the politics of the situation. Also the Chinese have been seizing any rock poking it's head above water in the South China Sea to claim territorial rights on, and there's quite a few disputed rocks that China & Japan both claim ownership of.
The USA has many things to answer for, but the tensions between China and its neighbours isn't among them. China is quite aggressively flexing its muscles over territory and resources in its region, and its neighbours are worried.
Ditto for the middle east
Bullshit. If China invades Japan, ICBMs be flying within the hour.
The US doesn't start fights. It imposes itself into fights it has no reason being involved in. Totally different.
I can see Putin's supporters using that line about Russia. However, not firing the first shot, or throwing the first molotov cocktail, doesn't mean you didn't start the fight, or set it up to happen.
Considering how much is outsourced to China nowadays, bombing China will probably do more damage to us than bombing our own industry.
It is unfortunate that Japan has to consider rearming itself, but with North Korea's ability to launch (possibly nuclear) missiles at Japan, and China's increasingly belligerent tone in the south china sea, Japans current pacifist constitution cannot stand. It cannot rely on the US to wholly protect her. If we could all take a step back and realize the silliness of it all, the world would be a much nicer place, but we are all jerks to someone else, whether you want to be or not and you do need to protect yourself, lest you get shot bringing words to a gun fight.
Umm, what question do you think you're answering, genius?
The EU should instead build an union of peace & socialism
No doubt there is a clique of policy wonks telling the gov how great the 'stimulus' will be for their moribund economy.
This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
The reason is that the Japs, Chinks, and all the other Slant Eyes in the region can't get along with each other. The result is an arms race that threatens the security of the civilized nations that make up the West. The EU should conduct a few preemptive nuclear strikes against the Japs, the Chinks, and their buddies to put an end to the threat.
Most nations in the EU do not have nuclear weapons. Europe has no purpose involving itself in east asian affairs at the present time. China and Japan especially are extremely civilized and cultured countries, more so than most places in the world. The Chinese and Japanese are most certainly not friends, and I doubt you've even heard of the rest at all. You don't even make an allowance for foreigners living in Japan or American military members stationed here.
Japan is a very innovative and interesting country with a fascinating history, and it's contributed much to our world, and same with China. You're the worst kind of "patriot": you have no clue of the world outside your limited vision, you have the empathy of a psychopath, and you are a disgrace to whichever land you come from. Enjoy the depths of -1.
"Set a man a fire, he'll be warm for the rest of the night. Set a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
Yes, the Japanese are afraid the Americans are coming. Now go back to the kids' table; grown-ups are talking.
The US doesn't start fights. It imposes itself into fights it has no reason being involved in. Totally different.
What? We actually create enemies and then attack them. The precise opposite of your assertion is true.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Well...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
You are welcome on my lawn.
Oh dear god, please build Mechs! You'll need them when giant creatures emerge from a rift in space-time in the Pacific...
I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
The US doesn't start fights. It imposes itself into fights it has no reason being involved in. Totally different.
What? We actually create enemies and attack them. The precise opposite of your assertion is true.
To you and the other tinfoil hat guys: You forgot the punchline...
"I'm not saying it's Space Aliens, but..."
Yeah... yeah.
like dudz theres this planet and junk called saturn and like it has no martians living on its surface and stuff and like its like really really cold dudz and i am SUER its all the fault of the USA and junk dudz!!!!!!!!! gawds i hates he usa!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it destroys life everywhere dudz!!!!!!!!!!!!
Is it more of a nation than it was ten years ago, or is this just more incompetent writing funnelled through a dipshit editor?
At the bottom of the
The only reason that Japan is doing this is because China is coming. The USA currently guarantees Japan's safety, but seeing as the Japanese hate the US military being on their soil, it's only a matter of time until they get kicked out, to thunderous applause. Then, it's back to the good old days of Japan/China relations.
Why are the Chinese doing what they're doing? Two reasons, the first being that they require external resources to power their economy. Without military control, they're under the domination of the international bankers, and we all know how well that turns out.
China's view is, "we were out of commission for 150 years, but now we're back, and it's time return to the old system where everyone acknowledges China as the center of the world (a far better translation of 'zhongguo' than the pathetic 'middle kingdom' literal translation). Oh, and we're bringing back the kowtow so be ready to knock your head on the floor when you visit us." They were wronged in the past, and now it is time for others to be wronged. Social justice in action. The second reason is to distract their population from the horrid job the Communist Party is doing. Growth is slowing, people are getting restless, and some of them are getting crazy ideas like they could do a better job running the government themselves rather than allowing the smart people to do it. The smart people have been ruthlessly fucking over the ordinary people and laughing about it. You can turn on Chinese TV any hour of the day or night and see at least 2-3 wartime dramas, all reminding the people about WWII. Sheesh, we Americans got sucker-punched by the Japanese but we paid them back in spades. China never got to do this...the Japanese surrendered and suffered few defeats in the mainland. So they do it on TV every day...the joke is that more Japanese soldiers die every month at TV studios than died during the whole war. And it is always the Communist Party doing the fighting, when the truth is that they wisely stayed out of the war and let the right-wingers do all the dying. You gotta hand it to them, they have a good plan and they're executing it well. Japan doesn't really have a choice but to re-arm, they want the Americans out and without defense, it will be Japan who will become a client of China.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Considering how much is outsourced to China nowadays, bombing China will probably do more damage to us than bombing our own industry.
Indeed, what ever will we do without our Dollar Stores. Yet, somehow I think we'll survive. (A number of addicted shoppers will go through addiction withdraw, but we'll survive.)
Captcha: inhuman. :-)
Well, just to mention the elephant in the room: Racism, or something like it.
Chinese, Japanese and Koreans detest each other, very similar to the ghetto/white urban racism in the USA, or maybe worse.
The power China is showing scares them all.
China is becoming a bully.
So the Japanese will do military research, and USA will share in the results.
It'll either be a very quick little war, or a long-lasting drudge of a war.
China - Hubris.
Korea - Scheming.
Japan - Ninjas.
The American president is going to launch a nuclear war because China invades Japan? Not a chance.
Yeah... yeah.
like dudz theres this planet and junk called saturn and like it has no martians living on its surface and stuff and like its like really really cold dudz and i am SUER its all the fault of the USA and junk dudz!!!!!!!!! gawds i hates he usa!!!!!!!!!!!!!! it destroys life everywhere dudz!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sometimes a strawman can be actually creepy. This is one of them.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
Japan is also getting into the business of arms exports, as well. For instance, they're one of the finalists (and the favored contender) to win a contract to build submarines for the Australian Navy (other competitors being France and Germany).
Overall, this is nothing bad - even were Japan to fully rearm, Japan today is a far cry from the aggressive expansionist of 80 years ago. China is the real threat to international stability and order in East Asia with its aggressive attempts to seize outlying islands on the flimsiest of justifications. (North Korea is a threat as well, but more to South Korea, and to a lesser extent Japan)
The Japanese public is also incredibly wary of full rearmament, and they're undergoing massive protests to the current government's plan to even relax some of the pacifist restrictions to let them do things like help the USA prior to a direct attack. To put another way, as it currently stands, if North Korea attacks South Korea, and starts firing missiles at US ships, Japan wouldn't be able to do a thing until Japan itself is fired on - not even to shoot down missiles targeting US transports.
The Ukrane thought the same thing that if invaded, it would have protection. Well, after losing a chunk of territory, they know differently now. Realistically, if Japan got invaded/attacked, they are pretty much on their own, with the only real reprisal being a scathing finger wagging at China at the UN building.
you realize he was trolling right?
I doubt he's a "patriot" at all. Just a basement dweller thinking he is accurately portraying the "other" Americans.
If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
Then why the hell is Japan still under military occupation ? Kick the yanks and their military out once and for all.
Jesus, I wish Europe would have the balls to send all us troops packing back to the US, and then close all military bases. Italy is a non-nuclear state and yet they have to harbour hundred of nuclear weapons pertaining to the americans on italian bases. We're not even masters of our own destiny.
Japan has had a long history with China, and generally not a good one. Based on that I'd saw the need increased military research needs to and will happen. China has been throwing it's weight around in a number of areas including the South China Sea dispute as well as Taiwan. One should say Japan was in a hard place for most of it's existence. A small group of islands with big neighbours just next door. Kinda of like the UK. They will certainly need something to make people think twice about invading them. The USA for the moments has interests in keeping Japan (and Taiwan) protected from China. But that could change. If it does, what will hold China back if it decides to "liberate" Japan? (They used a similar excuse for Tibet)
"Imagination is more important than knowledge" - Einstein
The US doesn't start fights. It imposes itself into fights it has no reason being involved in. Totally different.
Like WWII, right?
Bullshit. If China invades Japan, ICBMs be flying within the hour.
It's not about invading, it's about bullying. If China gets control over the seas around Japan it can always threaten to blockade the Japanese archipelago, holding it in a stranglehold, and then engage in a staring contest over who wants to launch nukes (think Cuban missile crisis). It is necessary to Japan's survival to have unimpeded access to the oceans for trade, and since WW2 it has relied on the United States to guarantee it (the United States is grossly under appreciated in how it's domination of the blue oceans has facilitated global trade and the creation of global GDP). Japan would be extremely uncomfortable if it had to rely on China to guarantee it's ability to trade around the world.
The Moore-Murphy Law: The number of things that will go wrong will double every 2 years.
I'm disappointed in the lack of Godzilla jokes.
It's about time Japan started cutting funding to the Agriculture Ministry to increase funding to the Gundam Ministry.
rofl you idiot. And how will they ship your iphones to the USA if you attack them? omg....
I wouldn't be surprised if the research is really only concentrated in two areas:
1) Missile defense technologies to counter NK
2) Navel defense technologies to counter China
Though realistically the second I don't really see as a "counter" so much as it is to apply pressure and to posture over territorial claims.
Maybe, just maybe it has something to do with our (USA) penchant for starting fights with the entire fucking planet
Just FYI, since you appear to have failed your World History class, the reason Japan doesn't have a military is because THEY picked a fight with US.
I'm dubious - I suspect conventional weapons would be enough to prevent the need for such a step. Given the turkey shot that the Iraq wars were, and the probability that China doesn't have the technology to prevent that sort of experience, there's no need to go there.
Chinese first use of nukes? More plausible, but still, I suspect, unlikely. At least I hope so... Though of course in the context of war, everyone does things that were inconceivable before its start. If a shooting war does happen, it will leave China economically crippled, because its dependence on overseas supplies of oil remains critical.
I like to think that there are many alternatives short of nukes that would render China so damaged that it would have to withdraw; cruise missiles onto all major power stations, water treatment works and oil storage and refineries would render the country chaotic very fast. But you may well be right about the need to demonstrate the viability of deterrence.
Sometimes a strawman can be actually creepy. This is one of them.
Welcome to Slashdot. Another creepy straw man will be along shortly to take your coat.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Maybe, just maybe it has something to do with our (USA) penchant for starting fights with the entire fucking planet
Are you implying the US is going to start a fight with Japan?
It's more likely that the Japanese realize that after 8 years of jug-eared pussification the US is unwilling to help them if the chinese or norks start to mess with them and that they are likely going to have to do it themselves.
I look forward to the Neo Japanese Robotic Warlords.
you realize he was trolling right? I doubt he's a "patriot" at all. Just a basement dweller thinking he is accurately portraying the "other" Americans.
I know that full well. But I've encountered a suprisingly high number of people who think like this in real life, and they're not trolling, they honestly think like that. I don't give a crap about him, but hopefully if there's a single shred of reason in somebody left, they'll realize how stupid a view it is to hold. Probably won't change anything, you're right, but then at least I can say I've tried.
"Set a man a fire, he'll be warm for the rest of the night. Set a man afire, he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
Japanese universities are already partners in technology development with Japanese companies, as universities around the world are partners with companies in their country.
Japan will lose a quarter of its population in about a generation from now, so the country must transform from the traditional economic engines of growth (manufacturing, services, etc.) to offset the inevitable decline that will occur in those engines.
Japan, with encouragment from the US, sees defense technology R&D, manufacturing, licensing and export as a growth industry it hasn't been a part of.
The US has encouraged Japan to do this, since the US depends on funding from Japan to maintain the large military presence it has in Japan. The US can't afford the bases in Japan by itself.
The US wants Japan to become a more "normal" nation, as the US calls it, by being proactive in the US-Japan alliance, instead of being only a self defense entity, because the US may be forced to reduce its presence in the future from US political/budget problems.
The executive summary is:
War is big business.
Translation: I bit on an obvious troll, complete with ethnic slurs. Now that someone else pointed that out to me, instead of admitting I got trolled, I'm going to make up some BS reason to pretend like biting on the troll was intentional.
-- GLMDesigns, posting AC to protect karma
Anyone from the US who has been to Japan or China has learned that there are things they do over there that would be useful here... and in some cases, vice-versa.
In reality, even though China seems to be rattling the saber, there isn't much interest in a Pacific Rim-wide pissing contest. A lot of countries have, can get, or ask another country via treaty, to provide nukes, so a standoff will either be by proxy or conventional warfare. Unlike the Middle East, people in most of the Pacific Rim rather raise their families up and have a future than have everything they know and hold dear destroyed for religious reasons. Maoism is long since dead, and the Chinese leadership have a tough job on their hands.
What would be nice is an open "border" between the US, China, Japan, and Russia, similar to how the EU works (or worked.) Get people to flow freely between all four nations, and it would strengthen all of them... mainly by killing the xenophobia.
The US doesn't start fights
still laughing
Well, in the next GZ movie, GZ will speak chinese, and have NK shoes...
And Taiwan will produce the next GZ movie....
Sk will provide special effects.
does not compute. They haven't done anything to anyone, in I don't know how many decades. Now, for certain other countries that constantly try to spin China as dangerous, things are very different...
Japan needs an army of giant robots that for some reason don't use ranged attacks at standoff distances while they have the chance.
I absolutely do not support Japan doing military research....
unless it involves building giant sword-wielding mecha. I would absolutely support giant sword-wielding mecha.
Donald, is that you?
China's growing nation status has Japan reconsidering its 70-year old ban on military research projects, as Japanese defense circles actively seek to take advantage of the country's vanguard position in robotic technology.
It is not just China, it is also the lunatics in NK launching missiles over Japanese airspace and making not-so-subtle threats to turn the archipelago into glowing glass. I am sure the US would retaliate and vaporize NK should they carry a devastating attack in Japan, but that is an after-the-fact conclusion. It is one that would not bring comfort to the Japanese who have to face the real threat.
The US position when it comes to a confrontation with China is less clear. Will they help Japan? I doubt it. Then, and this is something typically missing in these discussion, there is the precedent in the Ukraine. Ukraine gave its nuclear arsenal away on the promise that its sovereign would be respected. And we all know what happened. This is not about what is right or wrong, but about how such a serious treaty ended up meaning nothing.
The immediate message from this, as observed from Iran to Pakistan, is that, a nuclear power can invade you and no one will lift a finger.
It imposes itself into fights it has no reason being involved in
You only say that because of your own myopia. Like so many Americans, you take for granted the things you were born with, and can't imagine anything being able to take them away from you. It would almost be worth the consequences to see your face when the U.S. failed to take the initiative to protect it's interests (and, consequently, it's citizens) and some foreign power took those things away from you. Of course, now, you'll call me a 'warmonger' or 'paranoid' or somesuch insult, because, again, your myopia renders you incapable of imagining a world where your rights (and privileges!) as a U.S. citizen don't exist anymore. Oh, and don't give me that tired-out line of how 'you don't have any rights anymore anyway', because what you also can't seem to comprehend is that things could be far, far worse than they are: you could be living in Syria right now. Suck on that for a while, friend; bitter, isn't it?
Get yourself some glasses for that myopia, friend, and take a good look around you.
If we can't start pointless wars with our aggressive neighbors, how can we save face?
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
This is just silly. How is China supposed to "bully" Japan? Japan's Naval power and perhaps even air force is still much better than China's. We definitely know their military technology is superior considering most of it is sourced from the US.
I think most people have no idea how strong Japan's military force truly is.
Military Research? You mean like their Whale Research except with bigger guns?
Can't imagine anything going wrong with that idea.
That's from your perspective. China is claiming the opposite -- the chain of islands from Japan to Vietnam (which was once an American enemy now becoming an American proxy) are (or threaten to) blockading China's sea route. If you look at the map, they have a point too. In this world, the only real games are among the US, Russia and China. Everybody else are just proxy states parroting what PR excuses their bosses tell them to.
The US doesn't start fights.
That's the spirit, son! We need more folks like you who understand the importance of an official narrative... You keep reading those history books, son; just stat away from the dangerous ones. ;)
Pacifist nations get conquered unless they pay to non-pacifist nations to protect them.
Switzerland's history begs to differ.
Pacifist nations get conquered if they are of strategic importance.
Pacifist nations that are basically a bunch of rocks in the mountain that nobody gives a care about don't get conquered, even more so if they happen to have a big number of banks where potential invader have already stashed a lot money and would have a lot to lose due to economic instability subsequent to a potential invasion.
Now excuse me, I'll get back to cooking my cheese fondue pot.
"Sufficiently advanced satire is indistinguishable from reality." - [Tips: 1DrYakQDKCQ6y52z6QbnkxHXAocMZJE61o ]
That's from your perspective. China is claiming the opposite -- the chain of islands from Japan to Vietnam (which was once an American enemy now becoming an American proxy) are (or threaten to) blockading China's sea route. If you look at the map, they have a point too. In this world, the only real games are among the US, Russia and China. Everybody else are just proxy states parroting what PR excuses their bosses tell them to.
Right now the United States has the ability to blockade Chinese ocean trade. This makes the Chinese nervous, which is completely understandable and rational. The only way the Chinese can remove this ability of the United States is to get sufficient ocean power that would, in addition to defending against the United States, give the Chinese the ability to blockade the various island nations that surround China. There is no solution to this dilemma that will make everyone happy.
The Moore-Murphy Law: The number of things that will go wrong will double every 2 years.
Koshiryoku Beam! Rocketto punch! Rust hurricane! Burestu fairu!!!
China doesn't have the capability to invade the Japanese home islands. I'm not even sure Japan would go to war over rocks in the South China Sea, but they may if China claims all the fish and oil in the region.
Dear White People,
We're all very sorry your collective butt hurts.
Signed,
The Internet.
Yes, I'm sure the Japanese are very worried about the US invading them. /s
Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
How, exactly, are you going to claim the US started this (or that)? Be specific and cite your work. You need only reference it - no need for links. I'm rather fluent in my history so you don't need to dig out various Wikipedia links. I'm not that rough.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Nah, it was already started then. That was just giving some public motive. Their statement, however improperly made, is largely correct. Even if you want to go hog-wild on the Iraq war, the US didn't even start that. That started long ago and, if we want to be honest with each other, is due to colonialism and then the hack job done by the League of Nations. The US was not a party to the League. Much of what the League did was exactly opposite of what we recommended they do but we didn't want to get involved so Congress put the kibosh on our joining. That was *not* an option after the second go-round.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Boy, I wonder why they did that? I also wonder when Japan became eligible to make that decision on her own...
Hmm... If only I didn't already know the answers to those questions or where to find them. Are you REALLY going to blame the US for taking Japan's military away? Are you REALLY going to argue that that was a bad choice? Do you REALLY think we don't know that Japan has been able to change her constitution for a *very* long time? Do you REALLY not know why that choice was made?
Seriously? We're not that dumb. Stop trying to lay shit at the feet of the US to clean up or to accept blame. Or, if you're going to, bring some facts and some logical statements. That's as daft as trying to say that the US had no business interfering with Japan in WWII. Or for trying to blame the US for WWII. Or for trying to say that Japan was trying to "surrender" when we dropped the bombs. Or any one of a number of other borderline retarded things that people spout because they're unable/willing to crack a damned book open and read it.
Is the US perfect? Fuck no. Not even close. However, the US is not responsible for you stubbing your toe, inability to get laid, or piss-poor choices that you made in life. Grow the fuck up and learn some history. Japan doesn't have as much military capacity as it could have because Japan opts to keep it that way - it's much cheaper (though it affords fewer power projection benefits) to rely on the US for military aid than it is to field your own military. They, and many other nations, have been doing this for years. Japan is, at least, a little more open about it and quite grateful (except for a few nutballs) for it.
There are some crazy bastards that want us to get off Okinawa. Not a chance. It's a good thing. Otherwise, China and Russia would like to have a nice quiet word with Japan. Yes, even all these years later.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
One doesn't have to be a 'Putin Bot' to recognize that the Turkey of today is no longer the Turkey of Kemal Mustafa a.k.a. Ataturk.
Kemal Ataturk saw Islam as an ideology that kept Turkey from becoming a modern state, and so after removing the Caliphate, he made Turkey a secular country - even though its population was fully Muslim - and totally redid its culture in far reaching ways - like replacing the Arabic script w/ the Roman. His successors did everything they could to integrate Turkey into Europe. Unfortunately, the Turks were and are Muslims, not Europeans, and culturally, they are closer to their comrades in Turkestan - the stans of Central Asia. So making them 'European' required putting them under military rule for long periods of time, and that was something that the EU frowned upon, since every EU member was supposed to be fully democratic.
So cue to Erdogan, who won an election once the Army decided to appease the Europeans and stand down. Well, Erdogan was never someone who was much interested in Turkey being integrated into Europe: rather, he was more interested in reviving Turkey's former greatness, which meant pre-Kemal greatness. Like the Ottoman Empire, when Turkey, as the Caliphate, was the leader of the Muslim world. In the current Middle East, Turkey sees a resurgent Iran asserting claims of leadership of the Muslim world, but knows that the Sunni world would never accept as its leader a Shia power. But Saudi Arabia and its Gulf neighbors like Qatar are too underpopulated & weak to assert any leadership, so it's a vacuum Turkey is happy to fill. Which also explains why Turkey has been opposed to expanding the definition of all radical Muslim groups as the enemy of NATO, when they were discussing the scope of the alliance. And as is well known, it's Turkey, rather than Iraq or Jordan or Lebanon, that has been the point of entry for ISIS volunteers into Syria. You know, the average Westerner who converts to Islam, takes a flight to Istanbul, goes over to Gaziantep and then crosses the border into Raqqa.
That does not compare w/ the overt support of Russia and Iran for the regime in Syria. It's always been the policy of Western powers to support dictatorships in the Middle East like that of Mubarak in Egypt, and given the events of the Arab Spring, even the toppling of formerly anti-Western dictatorships like Gadaffi has had its deleterious effects. Russia's decision to prop up Assad, while mainly from self interest - it doesn't want to lose its last customer of military hardware in the region - is not the same as them supporting Russian separatists in the Donbass. Indeed, there are enough US leaders - Trump, Cruz, Paul - who recognize that the US doesn't have an ally among the Sunni Arabs, and should not get too involved w/ any of the factions seeking to overthrow Assad.
Yes, Congress chose not to join, and thus there were consequences to that choice. The same can be said for the US's involvement in WW1. They chose a military intervention against the Central Powers. Fine. But it had an outcome.
And that isn't even getting into some of the nasty business the US was doing, what I'm talking about isn't describing what was bad, so much as noting the consequences of what Frank B. Brandegee and Henry Cabot Lodge did, and Woodrow Wilson too.
That's a vast improvement over pointing and saying, "The US is the culprit!" (Or what have you.) Oh, it's fun to blame the US and the US does deserve some blame. However, very rarely is the world so binary and history so clear as to be able to point and place blame on a sole party. I really, really get a kick out of those who know no history from before 2000 but feel compelled to blame IS/ISIL/ISIS on the US. It is even more amusing when those that levy such complaints are from Europe.
Hell, even Vietnam was largely due to the US trying to clean up after France. Cuba? Err... Not so much anyone's fault but the US. I guess we could go back a little further and we could say that the blame might rest (a bit) on the shoulders of US citizens and not the US government, directly. But no, that was mostly the US' doing along with Castro and Che. Hmm... And Batista. Yeah, even there it's not just the US - we could go back to colonialism even with Cuba, if we really wanted and now that I think about it.
There's some Banana Republic stuff to get into. That can (largely) be blamed on the US. Well, unless you want to go back to the Spaniards and (I tihnk?) Portugal.
I'm still not sure what kind of disconnect it takes to blame the US for IS instead of, you know, blaming the people who are chopping off heads and tossing people off of "Chuck-a-homo Bridge." I'm sorry but no... If you're out chopping someone's head off 'cause you believe in a magical figure then you're fucking crazy - and completely to blame for your actions. There are NO extenuating circumstances for that. But no... It's surely the fault of the US. If they're the World Police, they're tyrants. If they do nothing, they're not doing enough. If they do anything, there's going to be people unhappy and they're going to be loud. It's kind of silly when you think about it and realize that many of them enjoy the things they have today because of aid or actions from the US.
Which is not to say the US is perfect. I'd never be so daft as to make such a claim. I'd also not try to lump it together as one. They're my own government but I've not really voted for very many people that have actually won their elections. I don't support much of what the country does and the ways that we do it. I didn't vote for them and I can say that truthfully almost every single time. I can only do so much to bring about change. In fact, I'm doing more than most - and, come November, I'll find out if I'm doing even more - though it's on a much, much smaller scale and unlikely to be noted except in the local newspaper.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
The Malabar Straits, will become a less contested area as years go by, due to the fact that China has been trying to create more ports that would be harder to blockade unless the US is willing to attack "neutral" nations. E.g. China is creating quite a large port in Gwandar, Pakistan and Myanmar. They are of course also creating rail links to central Asian and other European countries. Just recently for the first time, and train from China just dropped off products in Iran.
That said, obviously sea trade is the most efficient method of trade, since it requires the least amount of energy.
But yes, the first island chain strategy has long been a US policy, and from China's viewpoint, it looks like the US is strongly trying to enforce it, under the guise of freedom of navigation, when majority of trade that goes through the S. China seas are going to China. If anything China has a stronger interest in making sure trade is going through S. China seas than the US.
Oh, you're thinking that it's about putting blame on a single party. No, that's rarely the case. I wouldn't even say it is at all, but I guess I can't rule it out. It's mostly just not the kind of scholarly analysis that goes through a methodical examination, but the off-hand conversation that focuses on the immediate. From my perspective, though, I'd say that the bigger problem is the people who have no concept that the US has been interfering in a lot of the world, most especially since WW2, but even before that, in the Western Hemisphere.
So you can be bothered by what you feel is "The US is the culprit" while others can be bothered by what they feel is "The US did no wrong" coming the other way. Sometimes I find that amusing, but not always. Sometimes I'm just laughing at the absurdity.
Anyway, as a major superpower, yeah, the US has to think of the responsibility it has for the current mess in the Middle East. Exclusively? No, but I doubt that anybody even remembers what the Mongols did, and it's hard enough to get people to notice what the French and British did. I'm sure we can find some connection to the conquests of Alexander the Great if you wanted, but it'd be pointless. But remembering all the dictators propped up, the moderates ignored, the aid selectively granted here and there, the odd assassination overlooked, yeah, that's the price of being an active and interventionist super-power. Today.
You can and do get some shit on you when you're prominent. Only some of it will necessarily be deserved.
Don't like it? I don't know what to tell you, this world isn't very clean and pretty. It's dirty. You get out of your nice clean bed, and it'll mess you up. But I'm sure nobody sits down and thinks that you are personally responsible for every politician in office. They may feel like yelling at Americans, but hey, emotions run high at times, don't like it? Then get us human beings to become as logical as Vulcans. It'll change your world too though.
Finally no, the US wasn't trying to clean up after France. No interest in that, though perhaps they tried to appear that way. It was about fighting the USSR and China. You can find those who will argue that the US achieved its strategic goals from that war if you want, but from a local perspective, it was decidedly not popular with the public. Or even some who got involved in that mess.
I won't say it was a Belgian Congo, but I do know some soldiers who said that one movie was the truest shit ever. Except the music. They didn't listen to Wagner.
Still, that war? Most definitely not popular with the homefolks. That's why Obama got us out of that mess in the Middle East as much as he could. That's why GHWBush didn't topple Saddam. Americans just don't want it. So they wanted out.
But that choice has a price, and that can including some unsavory people who are free to take action because there is nobody to stop them. Or because they just don't know another way. And don't be stupid enough to blame it on a magical figure, that sort of blood gets spilled for all sorts of reasons, just ask the French Republicans, the Russian Bolsheviks, the Confederate Rebels, the English Puritans, or any number of others. Not a religious-exclusive problem. I'm not even sure if becoming Vulcans would help, there was at least one Star Trek episode where a guy committed massive killings because it was the logical thing to do.
Anyway, Americans don't want to be in the Middle East, they pay the price. Americans do want to police the Middle East? They pay the price. And you can rub your hands together and curse the world for blaming you for it if you like, but it won't change how the fact is, America HAS acted in the Middle East, and that has had consequences.
I wouldn't even focus your ire on Europeans, it's not even simply an outside problem, it's also an internal one. Can't even talk to some folks about what the US has done wrong without being attacked as Un-American and a Commie lover. Can't even
The history of every major galactic civilization has passed through three distinct and recognizable phases: those of survival, inquiry, and sophistication. Otherwise known as the ‘How’, ‘Why’, and ‘Where’ phases. For instance, the first phase is characterized by the question: “How can we eat?” The second by the question: “Why do we eat?” And the third by the question: “Where should we have lunch?”
The history of warfare is similarly subdivided though here the phases are retribution, anticipation, and diplomacy. Thus, retribution: “I’m going to kill you because you killed my brother.” Anticipation: “I’m going to kill you because I killed your brother.” And diplomacy: “I’m going to kill my brother and then kill you on the pretext that your brother did it.
Douglas Adams
No idea why you got modded down. The only problem is that it's probably true...
The US tried to remake the Greater Middle East after 2001-2003 and failed miserably. This gave direct cause for the rise of ISIS later.
You sir are ignorant. I often see your posts and laugh knowingly.
You are not nearly as inciteful as you think you are.
Clinton is a square shooter. Clinton 2016!
Massive increase in defense spending that the Reagan administration implemented gave a tremendous short-term boost to the US economy. Japan could use something similar to get out of their long-term recession.
> Georgia and Ukraine were not NATO members and had no treaties requiring other nations to come to their aid if attacked.
Actually the Ukraine's territorial integrity was guaranteed by the 1994 Budapest Memorandum, in exchange for Kiev giving up their 2500 warhead nuke stockpile. It was modeled on the treaty that made Britain enter WW1 after the Prussian German Empire invaded Belgium. Eventually the Entente Cordiale alliance armies crushed the huns underfoot. Yet, in the Ukraine, the guaranteeing powers of USA, UK, France and China turned a blind eye to Russia invading the Crimea peninsula.
That story is something to teach all: the DPRK and Comrade Kim are totally right! Never give up your nukes for any kind of promise or paper, because paper is only good to wipe derriere. Nukes, even junk-quality nukes are the seals of a nation's safety. Iran is stupid to give up nuclear ambitions, as US / IL can now bomb them back to stone age with impunity. Every nation and race or tribe that intends to survive needs to obtain nukes and make underground test explosions for demonstrative purposes. An atom a day keeps the invaders away!
What we have w/ Islam is far more dangerous. In the Warsaw Pact, the Russians, Poles, Czechoslovaks, Bulgarians et al weren't believers in Communism. The threat was well defined, and usually, people from those countries who defected to the West were genuine, and themselves targets of the KGB, rather than Trojan horses or Fifth columnists here in the West.
The situation is flipped w/ Islam. Here, most of the governments are recognized as 'allies' - including countries like Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Qatar, Egypt, et al which have no plans of waging war against the US. However, an indeterminate number of people of these countries are Jihadists, who either want to come here and terrorize us into accepting Shariah law, or want to strike any symbols of our presence there. Since 9/11, there have been thousands of people worldwide killed in Jihadist attacks. The Jihadists come from a wide variety of Muslim countries - not just Iraq or Syria, but as far apart as Indonesia to Nigeria. In short, our enemies come from the Muslim populations of all these countries, and it's impossible to determine how many of them have those intentions. Given that Islam itself endorses - via the Quran and Sunnah - all these acts of the Jihadists, it is nothing less than PC multi-culturalism to pretend that Islam itself is not our enemy.
Whether such an alliance itself is needed or not, one thing is clear: NATO is obsolete. It existed to prevent Europe from being overrun by Communists: today, the only threat that former Soviet republics on Russia's frontiers face is Moscow threatening them - either genuinely, or using a strawman - of persecuted Russians in those countries. Without endorsing Putin, what happens there is a regional conflict, and while it's fine of Europe to back Ukraine, Georgia and Latvia, it's not a global issue. That's not the case w/ Islam, where you have Muslims from anywhere in the world committing acts of terror anywhere in the world - be it their own countries or other. Russian revanchalism is not a global threat: Islam is.