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Standing Desks May Not Be Healthier Than Sitting All Day, Say Scientists (fortune.com)
An anonymous reader writes from a Fortune article: Standing desks are the fashionable furniture of choice at the moment, but they may not really be the healthier alternative to, well, a chair. A review of studies into the benefits of "workplace interventions" to reduce sitting at work, such as sit-stand desks, are inconclusive, according to researchers from a Cochrane work group. That's because there's little evidence of the long-term effects of standing at your desk. "At present there is very low to low-quality evidence that sit-stand desks may decrease workplace sitting between thirty minutes to two hours per day without having adverse effects at the short or medium term," scientists wrote in an updated Cochrane Database of Systematic Reviews study released this week.
Okay, so the next piece of fashionable furniture will be the jogging desk.
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Hopefully you have arms like plastic man that stretch to match the distance of the keyboard.
After switching to standing, my lower back pain disappeared. There's my conclusive anecdote to their inconclusive data!
Objectively, my standing desk has a cumulative and measurable effect on my blood glucose levels.
Subjectively, my increased blood flow and better BG levels make me feel more alert and more productive, and knowing that my employer is willing to invest in me as a real human being does wonders.
When I sit, my back and neck hurt because I slouch when I'm concentrating. When I stand, my back and legs hurt because I slouch when I'm concentrating.
On my treadmill desk, I never slouch, it's impossible to slouch while walking but it doesn't hurt concentration. So that's the ideal setting for me.
Instead of a sit-stand, I have an HDMI splitter and a wireless keyboard. Monitor at a sitting desk, monitor at the treadmill desk, they show the same thing, just move between them if I have to sit but I haven't used the sitting desk in months.
Health effects, whatever. I feel better when I can change positions every now and then. Sitting all day leaves me feeling tired and my back gets sore (yes, I've tried lots of different chairs). With a sit/stand desk I change positions every hour or two, switching between standing, sitting on a moderately-ergonomic desk chair and sitting on an exercise ball. The latter is actually fairly hard work to sustain for a long time, but I think my core has gotten stronger for doing it. Standing eventually makes my feet hurt. No one position is ideal, but changing it up seems to work great.
Anyone get the idea that this whole "health" idea of the standing desk was invented by IKEA, or other office furniture manufacturer?
I know that I have been sitting behind a computer screen for about 30 years of my life, and that now I suffer from chronic back pain. So, at home I switched to a standing desk, and at least on the weekends I have some relief.
I'll stop by in another 30 years and let you know how I've made out.
I don't understand people's obsession throwing money at an expensive adjustable desk. Just get a drafting table and a tall chair. Problem solved.
Big Chair, buying off scientists yet again.
I simply lay back in my chair with my neck on the back and my legs straight out so everything is in a line like im standing, but i'm sitting!
I am really tired of all the conditional studies. Wake me when someone discovers something that can state, and not hedge they findings in conditionals.
"Cortonna, please google blah blah"
The study was about whether standing desks decrease sitting time.
It does _not_ discuss whether decreased sitting time improves health, but it does say in the second sentence of the abstract:
"Physical inactivity at workplaces and particularly increased sitting has been linked to increase in cardiovascular disease, obesity and overall mortality."
Sigh.
The review article is not evaluating the health benefits of sit/stand. It's about whether an employee actually sits less if they have a sit/stand desk (or just uses it as an expensive sitting desk). The review says that it doesn't reduce sitting time by very much, which has nothing to do with health. In fact, the review article accepts the health benefits as a given: "Physical inactivity at workplaces and particularly increased sitting has been linked to increase in cardiovascular disease, obesity and overall mortality."
Don't draw any conclusions from the Fortune article. The Fortune author obviously has a bias, and is trying to support his point of view using an article that, in fact, contradicts him.
If you actually read it, the study is about whether standing desks reduce the amount of time you spend sitting.
It doesn't say anything about whether sitting is bad except in the "background" section, which says "Physical inactivity at workplaces and particularly increased sitting has been linked to increase in cardiovascular disease, obesity and overall mortality."
So, pretty much the opposite of what the article is implying.
A) Studies have shown that sitting is bad for you.
B) Studies have failed to show that standing is good for you.
Taken together this is pretty solid evidence that (A) is confounded in some way.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
I have a tabletop laptop stand that I put my keyboard/mouse on when I want to stand. $30, and it even has a built in USB cooling fan if I want an invigorating breeze while I work. My company offered some $2k rising robo-desk monstrosity, but I'd prefer to keep my $30 stand (and the remaining $1,970, obviously).
I take 3 walks a day: once in the morning, once for lunch, and once in the afternoon. I get around 12k steps in total. I always come back refreshed and ready to tackle another 2-3 hours of office shit.
Then again, it could also be the 200-300mg of caffeine I ingest at the coffee shop I walk to.
I wanted a sit/stand desk at work because my knees hurt when I sit all day. My desk is too high (can't be lowered) so my chair has to be at highest and then my legs don't reach the ground. Yeah, I have one of those foot rest things, but unconsciously always move my feet onto the desk legsand this causes strain on my knees.
The company sent out an expert in ergonomics to do an assessment and I got a Varidesk that I can raise and lower as I need. The recommondation was to neither sit nor stand all day, but to switch it up back and forth every 20-30 minutes. I've been using it for over 6 months now and I really like it and have noticed a difference in reduction of aches/pains.
Psudeo Science debunked again.... Honestly all this crap is just a bunch of jocks trying to convince themselves that the desk is making them fat and not the fact that they are half-assing their workout.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
drafting table and a tall chair
I'm pretty sure employers don't want to be sued for all the back injuries that will cause..
I'm certain that it isn't healthier than sitting because both my father and my uncle worked 40 hours per week standing through their life, and both needed knee double replacement after retirement. Moving around is the correct action. Not standing nor sitting all day.
Non sequitur: Your facts are uncoordinated.
I went a step further and have a monitor lower than desk height so I get in a good squat pose now and then.
Boss: Larry - are you taking a dump in your cube?
Larry: No sir, just watching the compiler errors come in from the last build.
Boss: I see. Good form. Carry on.
Read Mark Rippletoe's "Starting Strength" book for a guide on proper form to do squats and other weight exercises. I have had back problems for a while now and simply exercising more, mixing running with weights has greatly improved the situation (and my overall health in general).
There is also a lot to stretching, I've also been taking a weekly pilates class for a few months now and that seems to help quite a bit as well. Programming for many, many hours in a char leads to all kinds of things being super tight that should not be.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I have this setup at home and do not find it comfortable. It seemed like a good idea.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
https://xkcd.com/1329/
The cushioned side goes up.
Or do you develop for Apple?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
I don't understand people's obsession throwing money at an expensive adjustable desk. Just get a drafting table and a tall chair. Problem solved.
I don't understand people's obsession with car seats that can be adjusted forwards and backwards. Just strap a couple of bricks to the pedals and put some extra cushions on the seat back. Problem solved.
Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
They work. Not only prevent bad posture, people will listen to your rantings while bouncing rhythmically at the tempo of the mood.
- these are not the droids you are looking for -
I use this solution at work. The tall chair is quite comfortable, and when I want to stand I simply move the chair off to the side. Not sure where you are getting that this would cause back injuries (the reason I use this setup is that I have five crushed vertebrae in my back, two are very bad). Granted, I don't use a drafting table, just a normal office cube-type desk that is raised up.
The article from Fortune is total click bait. "Standing could even be bad for you." Okay... then should there be a push to have people sit MORE at jobs where they're on their feet for 10-14 hours a day? Ultimately what they're seeing is either way the results are inconclusive because the studies aren't very controlled. People should try it themselves and see if it does good things for them.
Really kind of a silly reply.
I used an old style drafting desk... In a drafting class.
I loved working at that desk.I really wished I could have grabbed one of those desks when the school sold them off to replace drafting with CAD.
Before anyone goes off I will say that most old style drafting desks where fixed height. My height really worked well with the height of that desk and the drafting chair.
A manually adjustable table combined with a good drafting chair is a valid solution for many people that would cost a lot less and be a lot less complex than a desk your can raise and lower.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
I posted about this last year, here https://ask.slashdot.org/comme...
The summary version is this:
- Sitting too much is associated with certain health risks that take a long time to appear and are common with a sedentary lifestyle (so may not be caused only by sitting)
- Standing too much is associated with certain health risks that occur fairly rapidly (relative to sitting)
- We don't really know how much standing is enough to ward off the dangers of sitting,
- We don't know how much standing is too much and will result in health problems.
There's probably an optimal healthy point, but we don't have any studies that show where that optimal healthy point is on average, much less how it needs to be adjusted for an individual. The only real advice to come out of this is that you should take a break and walk around every once in a while and outside of work, maintain an active lifestyle with exercise and properly sized nutritious meals.
I don't understand people's obsession throwing money at an expensive adjustable desk.
Most people believe (even if not explicitly) that quality correlates with cost. An expensive solution has been more carefully researched and engineered; built of better materials; whatever. People also often believe they can use cost to coerce behavior ("If I pay $200/month for a gym membership, I'll have to go"). Problem + money = no problem.
When I looked at TFA's results, the thing that stands out most is that none of the standing/treadmill/cycle desks reduced sitting time by any more than 35 minutes. People would rather sit. Given a sit/stand desk, they sit. Given a standing desk with a tall chair, they sit. Furniture is not enough to change behavior (regardless of how expensive). You need a coach or some kind of game/reward system.
I'm lying down on the job. It's the only safe alternative. And now I have studies to back me up what the boss asks.
Have gnu, will travel.
Obviously everyone's work conditions are different but in my situation I have my desk that I sit at then my workbench where I stand and work. If I need to do detailed work at the bench I have a stool so I'm not slouched over for hours working on something difficult but moving about is the key to feeling good.
I realize some jobs you're stuck in front of that screen for the whole day so I don't know how to help that but placing your tasks in different locations so you move around is the key to not feeling achy and awful at the end of the week. ONLY standing or ONLY sitting seems to probably both be not all that great.
Standing at a desk you look like a dork. Just don't do it. Anyway, standing 8 plus hours a day is torture. I did it for three years not through choice.
http://www.acetonestudio.com
Gorilla arms!
http://www.acetonestudio.com
Now where's the fun in that?
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
How did the bread and water vending machines work out, or are they still being evaluated?
Standing desks. They're going to be pretty cheap in a few years; around the same time hipsters realise their stupid hairstyles are as dated and embarrassing as mullets.
My spine shape problem, acquired through 20 years of sitting desks, was solved with chiropractic work and traction (the before and after xrays are impressive). But the speed of progress greatly improved when I built a standing desk Not adjustable or anything - the display frame is just metal channel from the electrical aisle, but with an anti-fatigue mat it's decent for up to twelve hours.
Side effects? Leg muscles, bitches.
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
Drafting tables are high and angled. A stool or other chair with no back support is typically used in order to get in close to the drafting table.
A drafting table is designed to prevent you from having to hunch over to get to the full surface area of your desk.
The vast majority of office drones don't do drafting or any other activity requiring a large flat work surface. They use a keyboard, mouse, and monitor. Some use a phone. They only need a small surface to a notebook or some post-it notes for actual writing. The rest of the time the eyes and neck are basically forward.
The value of standing desks 'depends".
Mainly, people should just take a 5 minute hard break every hour. Standing is great as an alternative to sitting. And sitting is great as an alternative to standing. I wouldn't do more than a couple hours in either position unless one of those positions is painful.
The main issue I see with standing desks is frozen butt muscles (maximus mostly). This produces a sharp threatening pain. The quadratus lumborum causes more of a dull ache.
Standing or sitting- doesn't matter-- holding your arms out is a recipe for messed up infraspinatus muscles and messed up teres major/minor muscles.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
I cant sit, I cant stand, like in school, I need to walk from time to time. Else I get crazy. Anyway, my bosses always dislike me for this the same way my teacher did not like me skipping classes.
I don't understand how people can stand being like rats at their jobs. It is clear activity is needed. And my job is coding, therefore thinking, and I think better while breathing, watching, walking looking the sky and the birds.
People are reproducing the bad habits learned at school forgetting their own self interest, their health. I really don't get how people can shut this little voice singing : I want to be outside, I don't like to be closed in the noise.
I prefer to be fired than told to live most of my existence like a rat in a cage. I was not born to be trapped, I wish to help the others, it does not require me to be in a cage even with free soda.
... the problem is not standing or sitting, it's work ...
Totof
I tried a standing desk for 6 months. Got nerve compression issues in my feet, and had to go back to sitting. The reality is that the human body was not designed to be in one position (any position) all day long.
Wireless on a floating swing arm. Who needs desk space if you replace the mouse with a trackball?
SJW: a person who perceives an injustice, and while correcting it, commits a greater injustice.
Back in the day I used to be a cubical worker bee but I would never sit for hours on end. You have to get up and mill about every so often. You have to get up and make your way to the water cooler just because. One thing you can do is instead of pinging someone with Same Time or MS Lync you should walk over to their desk and if they are a couple floors above you use the stairs and get some exercise. I work remote now so I have to use the tools given me. I always like the face to face interactions with my co-workers and others in the company. It gave me exercise and I could get a better read on someone, body language, facial expressions and the like that you can't get any way else. My point is don't just sit there. Even working from home I get up and move about pet the dog look outside. Work standing up and sitting. They should not make a desk that makes you stand all day or one that makes you sit all day. Someone should come up with a desk that you can click a button and allows you to stand and then push the button and you can sit. That would be cool.
Paul E. Bahre
Horses for courses. And if you're taking a punt, doing so for $30 is arguably more sensible than taking a punt for $2000.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
For whatever reason, tall chairs tend to make my back hurt. Something about my feet not being able to be on the ground or in different positions, I guess? I know tall chairs have support bars, but they never seem to be in the right place or allow enough variety of positions.
The Quirkz Handbook of Self-Improvement for People Who Are Already Pretty Okay
In my case it was zero dollars because I already had a counter and barstools. It was just a matter of setting the computer down. :)
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
Does anyone actually find sitting on bar stools comfortable? I never have.
They probably seem more comfortable when drunk. I'll have to try drinking while working. For science.
W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.