Slashdot Mirror
Microsoft Finally Ships $8,999 Surface Hub (eweek.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from eWeek: Surface Hub, originally slated to ship last September and later missing its January 2016 release deadline, is finally being delivered to Microsoft's business customers, announced Brian Hall, general manager of Microsoft Devices Marketing, on Friday. The touch-enabled Windows 10-powered device, available in a 55-inch and a massive 84-inch model, features built-in cameras, a microphone array, Bluetooth, WiFi, motion sensors and near-field communications (NFC). It runs Skype for Business, Office and OneNote, providing an integrated collaboration experience, and at least with the 84-inch model, an expansive canvas for interactive presentations and virtual meetings. With the Surface Hub, Microsoft is making an aggressive push into the conferencing and collaboration market currently dominated by Cisco, Citrix and Polycom. "I couldn't be more proud to announce this milestone for our team, customers, and partners. We can't wait to see what people, teams and businesses will do with Surface Hub," said Hall in a March 25 announcement.
Bastages.
"Hey Bob. The new giant iPad has arrived."
"Hey everyone. Come see the new giant iPad."
Recycle PCs and build a wireless community network www.hillsborough.org.nz
Notice how all the genuinely interesting articles are submitted by Anonymous Cowards, but the bullshit SWJ and shill articles get submitted by the same 5 regulars?
How long does the battery last?
Notice the words "being delivered" in the story.
If you want news from today, you have to come back tomorrow.
The low end model has a crappy i5, and the high end only gets you an i7, and the video resolutions are barely adequate for displays half (or a quarter) their size. You can get a 4k monitor (aka a TV) for a tenth the price, and better computers for half the price. The software better kick some royal ass or these things are going to find their way to the dumpster damn quick.
just a ghost in the machine.
Wowsers! Only nine thousand bucks! Woot! I'm gonna rush out and get me three right now. Or, you know, I could spend about 1/9 as much on a desktop system with better specs in EVERY WAY YOU CAN IMAGINE! I read this, and saw tiny IOT linux computers available for $39. Maybe I'll get one of those first. I could buy 230 of the nano linux boxen for the price of one of the M$ things.
The Android version does not support screen sharing, so it is useless for presentations.
The Mac and iOS versions are not stable and crash numerous times during meetings. (My record is >20 crashes in less than an hour with both clients.)
The HTML version is also too limited.
Even the Windows versions suffers from login issues, not present in the other ports, especially if you log in through a ADFS (Active Directory Feberation Services) corporate portal and have security restrictions.
In the end I cannot believe how bad Lync was and Skype for Business is, compared to any other alternative, including GoToMeeting, WebEx, etc.
If only, we were not forced to use this steaming pile of Microsoft meeting software at work.
And you can get second hand Polycom conference room phones for dirt cheap too if you're on a tight budget. I don't see how/why anyone would authorize an expenditure for this very costly Microsoft product that offers nothing particularly new.
I deny that I have not avoided attaining the opposite of that which I do not want.
And you can get second hand Polycom conference room phones for dirt cheap too if you're on a tight budget. I don't see how/why anyone would authorize an expenditure for this very costly Microsoft product that offers nothing particularly new.
Because, to certain minds, look >> function and look + cost >> function even more
PS: I don't reply to ACs.
How is that not rendered obsolete by one of those thingies you stick to the side of a standard 80" TV to make it tactile-like?
I don't see what this gargantuan iPad adds to a system built on:
- a very large cheap tv.
- one of those side-sensor thingies.
- simple software to coalesce the image and sensor output.
I don't know what those sensor thingies cost (we have them lying around in drawers and I just pick one up when needed), but they can't fall remotely close to $8K.
Riiiight, because that is exactly the same, or not!
My first question for Microsoft is "why restrict what software I can use"? For example, maybe we'd prefer to use Zoom, Webex, or GotoMeeting? Perhaps we'd like to use the device for teaching and thus I need to run any number of software packages from Adobe CC, SPSS, or even Auto-CAD. Perhaps we need to browse the web with something besides Internet Explorer? Microsoft constantly jabs devices like the Chromebook/Chromebox for being limited in software options and then they run off and do exactly the same thing. Et tu Brute? I was hoping this device would end up being a nice competitor to products like the InFocus MondoPad or the Sharp Aquos but instead they've built a low-end Microsoft-only consumer device and slapped a business price tag on it.
It is called the "Surface Hub", but none of the above mentions any Hub-like functionality ?
Interactive movie prop that the cast can be seen working over as the data and images move the plot along? Just dont get any of the set crew reflected back :)
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
That can also be done with the describes setup, a cheap webcam, and software. Mix the cam stream with the main image at a low opacity%.
Never used that mixed image idea, but I remember someone suggesting it for some scrum something I clearly didn't pay enough attention to.
You aren't just paying for the hardware, you are paying for the R&D necessary to assemble to it all into a product you can just stick on a wall and expect normal users to work with. Sure, you could build your own, but how much time would you spend doing that, and would it all work seamlessly? For example, the Hub has two cameras that it switches between automatically when video conferencing so that it doesn't have to rely on a single fisheye to get a reasonable field of view. Were you planning to knock that up in Visual BASIC?
This reminds me of when electric vehicles first started to go mainstream, and armchair engineers thought they could build one for a fraction of the cost. Maybe they could (doubtful) but that's rather different to Joe Public wanting to buy a new car.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Are the side-sensor things multi-touch? Does this contraption have NFC integrated into the software? Is the surface of it resilient enough for you to lean on? I highly doubt this is an apples-to-apples comparison.
"I have never let my schooling interfere with my education." - Mark Twain
because from the nest we not only feel safe, we are safe. The nest protects us. The nest nourishes us. The nest loves us. We love the nest. Wouldn't you like to be in the nest, too!
It's only 9k if you cheap out with the 55" version, the fancy 84" on the other hand is 22k
- No multitouch.
- No integrated NFC
- I'd rather lean on a wall mounted TV than a $9k big tablet. Also, the surface is often a wall on which we project, so its leaning-on resilience is pretty much unmatched by any display after cave painting.
It's not the same, but I think it's close enough to grant a cost comparison. x9 for multitouch, feels a bit steep.
55" fully integrated: $9000
Really good 55" screen: $1000
Touch sensor: $200
Software: $200 (Mostly Win10 license)
Vesa-mountable i7 PC: $1000
Mounting material: $100
Budget for hired team to make just one of these work: ~$6500
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
Its also a niche device, but its probably got more potential in business for the simple fact it runs Windows. The iPad Pro like all iPads with IOS which is not really setting business on fire. On the consumer side the OS is much less important, the iPad becomes a media consumption device along with social use. As long as apps are made to serve those services. It has done consumers well and they could care less about running special business software.
Budget for hired team to make just one of these work: ~$6500
So about 1/10th the amount needed to get a rudimentary prototype running, assuming you manage the project for free, have spare office space sitting unused, write the spec document yourself without doing any research or usability studies etc.
I can tell already it's going to be a great product.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Tired slashdot memes are hardly the preserve of logged in users, and I don't see the examples you gave being modded up often either. Yes, the moderation sucks, but I would say it sucks slightly less than other user-moderation systems; the only way to ensure consistent, high-quality moderation is to have paid, trained mods, which is not going to happen here. As it stands, you have both mods and commenters that don't bother to read the articles, so dumbed-down, knee-jerk and blindingly obvious comments will tend to get modded up, while those of us that take the time to actually read articles and make considered comments on their contents are often just pissing into the wind. Again, both logged in and AC users are guilty of this, and I certainly don't see any justification for your argument that making everyone AC will improve the quality of comments. If the new owners can think of anything that might improve moderation quality though, I'd certainly appreciate it.
So will Hawaii Five-0 upgrade?
and at least with the 84-inch model, an expansive canvas for interactive presentations and virtual meetings
What, a freakin' 55" screen isn't big enough to warrant being called "expansive"?
Sheesh.
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
""We can't wait to see what people, teams and businesses will do with Surface Hub"
Install linux on it... Because if it's windows then there is very little availability of software that is multi gesture and touch capable.
Honestly the whole software industry is pretty much ignoring touch, so now we have a $9,000 desk sized touch device that has NO real software for it for real business use.
No CAD is touch capable, no decent document systems, etc... This will sit in the corner of a board room unused.
Do not look at laser with remaining good eye.
A 9000$ phone that is capable of blue screens of death, fantastic!
And... Nobody Cares.
I'm not talking about a product, I'm talking about installing a single screen with touch.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
I forgot to include on-going support costs. Even if you make it a one-off, you will still have all the costs associated with specifying, designing, building, testing and supporting the thing, just not the additional cost of making it manufacturable.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
but they can't fall remotely close to $8K.
That depends. Do you already have a TV? If setting up a new meeting room, a new TV, commercial grade with custom bezel, mounting, remote connections for laptops, managed from a meeting room control unit from the likes of AMX, you'll be down $8k before you even look at smart features, collaboration or interactivity.
Shit most smart whiteboards cost over $3000 and only do a fraction of what this device is capable of.
So it's the cost of a good projector (which only has a single purpose).
Specifying, designing, building and (for a large part) testing are one-off costs.
Supporting it are the on-going costs. I wonder if they're much higher than the costs involved with support of a specialty third party product.
Slashdot social media options: AIM, ICQ, Yahoo, Jabber and Mobile Text. Why no MySpace?
those fucking ads for the 'upgrade' for 7/8 users would be 4+ square feet in size.
Hey don't steal my comments.
you would be shocked. there are plenty of people like me who mod based on content and dont even look at usernames.
have you seen my sig? there are many others like it but none that are the same
No, not on the TV. Now you can do your own annoying ridiculous CNN zooming touch maps that you mis-tap and bring up information that isn't germane to what you're talking about, but in your own conference room!
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
I saw a larger multi-touch monitor (the biggest expense) for about 4grand. Then you just hook it up to a PC and you are all set. Granted it isn't as fancy as an all in one... However my experience with these things, people often will want to plug in their laptops for their presentations. Not use someone else's computer
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
How is that not rendered obsolete by one of those thingies you stick to the side of a standard 80" TV to make it tactile-like? I don't see what this gargantuan iPad adds to a system built on: - a very large cheap tv. - one of those side-sensor thingies. - simple software to coalesce the image and sensor output.
That completely misses the point. It's the simplicity of connectivity. If existing remote-working solutions result in folks faffing about on average for 10 minutes before they get connected up properly, and this device reduces the faffing about to less than 10 seconds, then it's a huge win.
(I've only used a surface hub once. Although I was the first person in the room with the hub, it already knew which meeting was going to take place thanks to Exchange synchronization because the meeting room had been booked through Outlook. The surface hub had already connected, and was already staring into the remote room with audio and video all working.)
Um... yeah... no. I felt the same way about 16 years ago when I broke down and created an account after using the site for a year or two. However, it made a huge impact on the usability of the site-- made the spam easier to block, discussions easier to follow, and certain discussions easier to establish credibility. Using Bruce as a specific example (along with Dan Kaminsky and a few others), "back in the day" it was much easier to find true insight to the discussion.
Honestly... compare the quality of discussion on slashdot and just about any other general access site, and you quickly come to the conclusion that credibility and history play a huge role in trust and discourse-- and that requires identity.
I don't know how long you need to be active to get the +1 Karma bonus nowadays, but in the scheme of things it was never that long. I still see plenty of 1 and a few 0 posts each thread I read, but it sure is nice to get the racist trolling crap modded to -1 quickly to keep the discussions flowing.
Well, if I hadn't posted above, I would have modded you up.
It is a little on the bizarre side, true. As a logged in user, you are (I think still) given an immediate +1 relative to an AC. If you have the additional +1 karma bonus, you can choose to post AC with an initial score of 1.
It is true that when you have a starting score of 2 you are more likely to be modded up to a 3 or 4 than if you start with a 0-- and it also takes less when you start with a 0 to get modded out of the discussion entirely.
It seems to work pretty well to keep the trolls out of the discussion, although it is abused on certain topics for sure, notably gun control and politics. It also works pretty well to keep the paid shills from having a disproportionate role in the discussion, although certain topics will pull them in quickly.
The moderation system used to have meta-moderation, not sure if that still happens. That helped to enforce "good mods", but is extremely cumbersome because you need to know not only the moderation made, the post it was made to, but also the context. The system would most likely be improved with additional moderation options and scaling factors for each... such as "-1 disagree" "+1 agree"-- which are sometimes trivial but not always. (over/under rated are often used for this purpose, but that is a harder to see through.)
you would be shocked. there are plenty of people like me who mod based on content and dont even look at usernames.
That's the way I do it. I don't care who the poster is, I mod up or down based on what they've written. If that jackass APK ever wrote a useful post, I'd mod it up (I'll admit this is a very low-probablility event, but still...).
The mod system is kinda odd, but seems to be accurate/effective over the long term (just my opinion). Not having even a 1-minute grace period to edit a post seems more backward to me than any other missing feature.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
$9,000 for a giant-ass tablet?
Ha ha, what a piece of shit. I'm sure we'll see them on the Home Shopping Surplus Channel this time next year.
But I bet they'll be a kick-ass tax write-off, just like the Surface was a year or so ago.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Where had you read that it was not multitouch?
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
@Anonymous Coward: "Notice how all the genuinely interesting articles are submitted by Anonymous Cowards, but the bullshit SWJ and shill articles get submitted by the same 5 regulars?"
It's sad to see the once great slashdot reduced to shilling for the Microsoft organisation. They post 'Anonymous Cowards' in the hope of bypassing slashdots trigger that automatically bins the post. but they're not anonymous to the slashdot monitors. There is definite bias in what is accepted, given the strange choice from the submitted article queue. For that reason, I can't be bothered posting new submissions. I do find myself bypassing the main page and going directly to https://slashdot.org/recent in search of interesting technical articles.
It seems Microsoft has completed it's Spruce Moose. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Not many posters seem to realize what this device is actually for, and what its competition is. It's not meant to replace your living room TV or your monitor. Surface Hub is meant to replace 4 major devices: a computer, a projector, a conference phone, and an interactive whiteboard. Its big competitors are SMART, Promethean, Mimio, Infocus, and Sharp Aquos. Depending on size and features, their interactive displays tend to start around $3000, and are usually only replace the projector and whiteboard. Sharp's 80 inch board is $11k on Newegg, and Promethean's 84" lists at $15k.
Sure, you can hack together a cheap solution--big $1000 TV, a cheap digitizer from China for $300, a used conference phone, and a computer, but I can definitely see the allure of an all-in-one system at a moderate price premium. It's too expensive for my classrooms, but we're already planning on replacing our SMART Boards and projectors with an interactive TV in the next year or two. If MS offered one designed (and priced) for classrooms, I'd definitely be considering it.
Because Beowulf clusters!
It seems like half the posters here are comparing apples to oranges again...
In a recent tweet, one of the tech news reviewers said the office-use MSFT Surface Hub, will in fact not meet the release date, but is delayed until July.
It might help if your marketing and your order fulfillment and tech support departments actually talked to each other.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I resisted a lot longer, but when they added karma an account became necessary. I've come to like it - more for the user identty than the moderation (I've always browsed at -1 anyway). When "someone is wrong on the internet", and it's someone you've had this exact conversation with before, it saves a lot of pointless bickering.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
You like technology as a hobby and dick around with building game machines for playing "Starcraft." And yeah, you can hobble something similar to this device together, and it'll work pretty well most of the time, and you don't really need that much technical know-how to use it once you have it all set up. This is a cool device, but not anything revolutionary.
In a business environment, people want something that works easily and well without having some guy from the IT department have to set things up or kludge together a fix, while 10 guys with higher salaries wait around in the office room. It could easily be worth the extra $8,000.
Slashdot: providing anti-social weirdos a soapbox, since 1997.
This is an old one, but still funny:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
The low end model has a crappy i5, and the high end only gets you an i7, and the video resolutions are barely adequate for displays half (or a quarter) their size. You can get a 4k monitor (aka a TV) for a tenth the price, and better computers for half the price
You can buy a Vizio UHD at Walmart for $600.
You can also pay $16,000 for a 31" field-use rated studio production monitor from Panasonic.
Which is what you need when your second-unit director has 120 people waiting to hear whether he made the shot.
We had a smart board installed through a technology grant of some sort, and it cost $6000. Smart boards are way overpriced for what they are.
For our specific one, I also found out that updates are not free, i.e. you want a newer version of the smart board software you buy it. The automatic updater helpfully doesn't tell you this though, and it invalidates your install key. And as far as I can tell, there's no way to disable the damn updater.
I prefer my vapor to be delivered by a vaporizer...
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
You get a shoebox sized PC and an InFocus touchscreen, with a little piece of open source software, and get the best of both worlds Windows 10 + better than SmartBoard functionality for about $3k
There are 2 groups of people you can make fun of on the Internet without fear of attack. The illiterate, and the Amish.
We've had one in the office for a month or so.
I don't see why the damned thing is so costly though. Sure, it's basically a touchscreen Smart TV (where the Smarts are Windows 10 in this case) with a wheelable stand thing. But $8999?