Slashdot Mirror


Ocean Temps Predict US Heat Waves 50 Days Out, Study Finds (ucar.edu)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from UCAR.edu: The formation of a distinct pattern of sea surface temperatures in the middle of the North Pacific Ocean can predict an increased chance of summertime heat waves in the eastern half of the United States up to 50 days in advance, according to a new study led by a scientist at the National Center for Atmospheric Research (NCAR). The pattern is a contrast of warmer-than-average water butting up against cooler-than-average seas. When it appears, the odds that extreme heat will strike during a particular week -- or even on a particular day -- can more than triple, depending on how well-formed the pattern is. "We found that we could go back as far as seven weeks and still predict an increase in the odds of future heat waves," said McKinnon, a postdoctoral research at NCAR and the lead author of the study. "What's exciting about this is the potential for long-range predictions of individual heat waves that gives society far more notice than current forecasts."

18 of 62 comments (clear)

  1. Study finds by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Light this morning, with increasing chance of darkness in the evening hours

    1. Re:Study finds by tripleevenfall · · Score: 4, Funny

      Scientists believe there was no darkness before humanity and their CFC pollutants came along. Modeling shows conclusively that temperatures were milder, bowling scores were much higher, golf scores much lower, and waterslides were much more excellent in the pre-Phanerozoic eons.

    2. Re:Study finds by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      Scientists believe there was no darkness before humanity and their CFC pollutants came along. Modeling shows conclusively that temperatures were milder, bowling scores were much higher, golf scores much lower, and waterslides were much more excellent in the pre-Phanerozoic eons.

      They also think that humor was funnier.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  2. Hmmm. Wasted research, methinks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I'm pretty sure knowing there's a higher than normal chance of a heat wave 50 days from know wouldn't alter my behavior or lifestyle in any way, and even people like farmers probably wouldn't change anything because:
    a) 50 days out is a long time away, and
    b) there still is only a relatively small chance a heatwave will actually occur. Unless it's summer, in which case heat waves always occur 80% of the time.

  3. Cause or effect? by Sooner+Boomer · · Score: 2
    From TFA:

    Scientists do not yet know why the fingerprint on sea surface temperatures in the Pacific predicts heat in the eastern U.S. It could be that the sea surface temperatures themselves kick off weather patterns that cause the heat. Or it could be that they are both different results of the same phenomenon, but one does not cause the other.

    --
    Chaos maximizes locally around me.
    1. Re:Cause or effect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      That requires another study... and another multi-year, multi-million dollar research grant (taxpayer funded, of course)

  4. Cause or effect? Who cares... by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Correlation is enough for short-term prediction, which is all they're claiming.

    But if ocean temperatures (which are rising) are the indicator to this prediction, you folks in the east had best be getting ready for more frequent, longer, and hotter heat waves.

    --
    That is all.
    1. Re:Cause or effect? Who cares... by Layzej · · Score: 2

      In this case they are looking at a distinct pattern of warm water relative to the surrounding seas, so warmer seas overall may not play a part in this phenomenon.

    2. Re:Cause or effect? Who cares... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      While I'm entirely convinced of rising ocean temps, your logic is flawed.

      What we know (assuming that we accept this research result as true), is that a peak of high ocean temps in one location statistically correlates with a heave wave in another location. We do not know that an overall rise of the ocean temps correlates to more or hotter heat waves in the second location. An increase in the "base level" temperature may well have no such affect. Or it may even have an opposite effect by reorienting / redistributing ocean currents in such a way as to weaken that specific correlation.

    3. Re:Cause or effect? Who cares... by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Correlation is enough for short-term prediction, which is all they're claiming.

      But if ocean temperatures (which are rising) are the indicator to this prediction, you folks in the east had best be getting ready for more frequent, longer, and hotter heat waves.

      And a notice is a darn nice thing to have. If a city knows that a heat wave is likely, they can prepare for it. And that will save lives.

      While to me, at first it seems like understanding the causation will follow pretty quickly - after all, this is energy stored in the ocean, so it's going to want to shed it somewhere, who knows for certain? A good use of research dollars.

      I suspect people getting snarky about this are just venting because its related to you-know-what.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    4. Re:Cause or effect? Who cares... by ljw1004 · · Score: 2

      But if ocean temperatures (which are rising) are the indicator to this prediction, you folks in the east had best be getting ready for more frequent, longer, and hotter heat waves.

      Read the article. They weren't looking just at "how high are ocean temperatures". They were looking at a specific pattern where the ocean was warmer than usual in one part of the ocean while cooler than usual in another part of the ocean, and these pair of things predicted the heat wave.

    5. Re:Cause or effect? Who cares... by Nidi62 · · Score: 2

      Correlation is enough for short-term prediction, which is all they're claiming.

      But if ocean temperatures (which are rising) are the indicator to this prediction, you folks in the east had best be getting ready for more frequent, longer, and hotter heat waves.

      Sounds good to me. We've had it pretty light the last few years. In high school 10+ years ago I remember regularly having days hovering near 100 with extremely high humidity. Last few summers it's barely pushed past 90.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
  5. Link to paper by orledrat · · Score: 3, Informative

    Neither the summary nor TFA has a link to the actual paper. Insensitive clods, the both of 'em.

  6. Re:Hmmm. Wasted research, methinks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    If, as the summary says, they could pinpoint it to a particular week, then this would actually be quite useful. People who are at increased risk of death during a heat wave (ex: elderly) would do well to get out of the area. Our normal 10 day (or less) forecast isn't much time to plan a vacation, but if you had 50 days notice (and could count on the timing of the forecast) then those people would have plenty of time to make vacation plans to get out of the area.

    Similarly, in the summer we often take several small vacations which we plan only 3 or 4 weeks ahead. Taking a vacation during a heat wave would be miserable, so this sort of info (if fairly accurate) would be enough to convince me to plan a few weeks earlier/later.

  7. Re:Hmmm. Wasted research, methinks. by NatasRevol · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If you tell a farmer that there's a heatwave coming in ~50 days, I guarantee you they will do things differently.

    Water patterns, planting patterns, fertilizing patterns, moving livestock to better places, etc, etc, etc.

    I'm guessing you're not too familiar with farmers.

    --
    There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  8. Re:Correllation is not Causation. . . by serviscope_minor · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Correllation is not Causation

    Oh FFS, I wish this meme would die. I mean in particular the way people parrot it as a subsitute for insight.

    No, correlation does not necessarily imply causation, but it does have predictive power, which is what TFA is about.

    --
    SJW n. One who posts facts.
  9. Re: Hmmm. Wasted research, methinks. by NatasRevol · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What drugs are you on? It's roughly half a growing season.

    OF COURSE they're going to make changes.

    --
    There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  10. Hopefully as accurate as Punxsutawney Phi by butchersong · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Data crunching is awesome and I'm all for looking for these patterns but they predicting a change in the odds from 1-6 to 1-4 "that a heat wave would strike somewhere in the eastern U.S. during a given week" betwen June and August.. I'm not sure how useful this is.