Windows 10 Now Runs On 270 Million Monthly Active Devices

At its developer conference, Build 2016, Microsoft announced on Wednesday that Windows 10, the latest version of its desktop version which it released on July 29 last year, is now being used on over 270 million active computers worldwide. "Windows 10 is off to the fastest adoption of any release ever," said Terry Myerson, executive vice president for Microsoft's Windows and Devices Group. The company also announced that it will be releasing Windows 10 Anniversary Update this summer for all Windows 10 users free of charge.

Comments

Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[Anonymous Coward]

FTFY. I can't wait to see what "Windows 10 Anniversary Update" is, but I bet it's nasty!

Re:Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[The Real Dr John]

Forced updates that also force the upgrade to Windows 10 are a great way to boost adoption rates. Also a great way to destroy what infinitesimal amount of good will and reputation you have left Microsoft. I put the emphasis on infinitesimal.

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2...

All my computers still run Windows 7 and are protected with GWX Control Panel. One of the major consequences of MS forcing updates and upgrades on people is that people who still have Windows 7 have all shut off automatic updates. Good going MS. Apple sales and Linux converts will continue to grow.

Re:Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[Noah Haders]

is windows 10 free? all of the apple OS updates are free. both the minor revisions and the major new versions.

Re: Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[Threni]

Apple is a hardware company. They're not going to charge you for their software too.

Re: Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[Anonymous Coward]

Really?

What hardware do they make?

Motherboards? Nope
RAM? Nope
Hard drives? Nope
Video Cards? Nope
CPU's? Nope

They use COTS hardware like everyone else.

They are Dell with their own OS. Dell puts lots of trials and other garbage in their system. Apple doesn't.

Re:Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[Radical Moderate]

It's free if you're running Win 8. Vista and older have to pay.

Re:Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[Radical Moderate]

My bad. Free for Win 7 users too.

Re:Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[Noah Haders]

I have windows 7!

Re: Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[Noah Haders]

why would you want to buy a carppy procuct? if someobyd donna givee me a product I would want it to be nice, and if they want me to pay for the proeduct whell then thit better do that thing that i like when things do.

Re: Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[ihtoit]

you might want to update your dictionary, I think your speelchukker's b0rked.

Re:Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[Anonymous Coward]

It downgrades your Windows 7 retail to Windows 10 OEM for "free". And since they now blocked the use of OEM versions for self-build systems, there must be a lot of users with a retail version of win 7 or win 8. There is only a limited time that you can go back to your previous retail licence, and the "free" windows 10 is locked to your current hardware. If the motherboard breaks, and you do not replace it with the _exact_ same model number (which isn't sold anymore), you are a software pirate if you keep using the same Windows 10.

Re: Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[Alumoi]

Give the man a break, he's using Windows 10 with autocorrect enabled.

Re:Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[The Real Dr John]

Yeah, "Free" is a very subjective term here. Google is free by the same definition. But the so-called free copies of Windows 10 are not like buying something and it being yours, and owned by you (while also being far less encumbered by ads, telemetry and data mining). I own my copies of Windows 7, but MS "delivers" Windows 10 as a "service". It is their decision to make, but I will stick with Windows 7 because that is my decision now that I have shut auto-updates off (which had always been on with my computers until the new paradigm of forced upgrades to Windows 10).

Re:Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[Immerman]

>I put the emphasis on infinitesimal.
So, basically you're saying they've destroyed nothing of value in exchange for rapidly eliminating the cost and headaches of maintaining several older versions of Windows. Sounds like there's no downside for them... why are you surprised?

Re:Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[Immerman]

Don't rush to upgrade without explicitly checking your hardware compatibility, especially on your video and networking cards. (doubly so if you don't have another computer to get online for troubleshooting) Several common cards (including a lot of common Intel integrated video cards) don't have W10 drivers, and the upgrade won't detect that before installing. I managed to get the Windows 8 video drivers working on my girlfriend's laptop after she upgraded (sorry, I've forgotten the details), but it was a nuisance, and I don't know if the moderate performance penalties are due to W10 itself, or something about the kludge.

Re:Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[Noah Haders]

why would they keep popping up upgrade messages on computers that can't run the software? you think they woudl do a systems check to figure that out first? it would totally bork somebody's system for a completely preventable reason.

maybe the guy in charge of the upgrade messages gets his bonus on how many updates there are, regardless of if they go well or poorly.

Re: Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. 270 million devices. I'm sure at least 500 or so were voluntarily upgraded by their owners too. Then again, 500 might be a bit high...

Re: Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[ihtoit]

oh, snap! :D

Re:Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[Anonymous Coward]

) why would they keep popping up upgrade messages on computers that can't run the software? you think they woudl do a systems check to figure that out first? it would totally bork somebody's system for a completely preventable reason.

maybe the guy in charge of the upgrade messages gets his bonus on how many updates there are, regardless of if they go well or poorly.

I think it's the latter. Someone's strongly incented to boost the upgrade rate even at the expense of the customers' interests.

Look at the former case from the point of view of the stereotypical technologically-illiterate grandmother. They say "My computer broke" and go buying a new PC with a preinstalled Win10, and pay some pimply-faced youth $100 to copy their family photo album onto it at the store. Microsoft racks up another OS sale, and their hardware partners rack up another PC sale. Everybody wins except the user.

Re:Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[The Real Dr John]

What made you think I was surprised? They will continue to lose market share. They shouldn't be surprised either.

Based on their extremely shoddy recent updates and patches, I doubt they are paying much for maintaining several versions. A couple of young programmers in India don't cost much at all.

Re:Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[rtb61]

It not a quarter as bad as it seems. M$'s penchant to count CPUs means multicores count more than once. Never to forget they do tend to quite routinely lie in their marketing. The forced advertising stream as it develops should become interesting. 'Windows is Watching' the new Apple marketing phrase.

Re:Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[Immerman]

Well sure, but that was happening anyway. You've got to give them credit for at least trying something new, they could have just kept plugging along on the same failing strategy they've been using for years. The rolling-release model has worked well for both Linux and MacOS, but neither have the legacy OS support that has hamstrung MS. HOW many years was XP supported for? I don't think there's a single Linux release out there that even comes close, even the "long term support" releases are typically abandoned within a few years. MS got burned badly on that and is understandably trying to avoid a repeat. And they learned the obvious lessons: people won't fix what's not (obviously) broken, and they'll get pissed off if you stop supporting it, no matter how old it is. Pressuring (even tricking) them into a "free" upgrade to the new strategy actually seems like one of the better options they have, both financially and PR wise.

Meanwhile, regardless of the quality of the updates, porting something like a security fix to all four different versions of the OS (10, 8, 7, and Vista) is going to be considerably more expensive than fixing it only in the latest version. And if they can pressure enough people to indulge in a "free" upgrade then they can make a much stronger argument in favor of abandoning their support duties on older versions. "The problem is fixed in the latest version. The latest version is free. Only a small minority hasn't upgraded. There's no excuse to have finally updated your legacy (pre)XP-dependent software and not made it far more generally compatible. What's the problem?" Obviously an issue for high-reliability, security-sensitive systems, but frankly they should probably be running a stripped-down Linux distro anyway.

Honestly, I kinda wish they hadn't decided XP was ineligible for the free upgrade, I would have loved to upgrade my gaming system from XP, the oft-upgraded hardware is more than capable but I'm not going to PAY for W10 spyware, even on a machine where I don't really care. Just as well I suppose - an OEM license kinda sucks for rolling-upgrade hardware.

Re: Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[gl4ss]

osx major updates havent always been free... in past 15 years windows is still cheaper

Re: Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[gl4ss]

trying the new is how they fucked up winmobile and desktop windows.

should stop already.

Re:Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[The Real Dr John]

What they are trying is not new, as you point out. It is just following the rest of the IT industry. Not particularly innovative, and not something I want to support. I don't want suggested apps on the start menu because I don't need or use apps on my desktop computers. Almost everything they added is not something I wanted in a new version. I get nothing from Cortana, the apps store, the crappy PC settings, a "Microsoft account", oh boy. The horrible 2D interface is unbearable. If I could give you one of my supposedly free copies I would. MS is trying to make money in different ways, and I don't like any of them. I just want o pay for my copy and be done with it. Anyway, you said it, people don't want to pay for spyware, and that includes me. If they make a much improved version based on the Enterprise version and sell it as Windows 10 Ultimate, I might reconsider.

Re: Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[Noah Haders]

true, but the version four cycles ago (snow leopard?) was $30, then all subsequent versions have been free. I think the main reason that windows shizz is used in the office is because all the employees already know how to use it. Make it free for home users, everybody gets trained on it at home, then clean up on the business users. fight against goog docs / chrome / open office.

Re:Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[Immerman]

Well, I meant "new for them", Microsoft has never been a technology leader.

And I've used W10 on several devices. The best I can say for it is that it's decidedly less painful to adapt to than W8. I don't like their UI and monetization direction, but then I rarely do. I'm *still* pissed off by their online activation requirements - I'm an honest paying customer, why the %^$#@! am *I* the one who has to suffer? It barely slowed down the pirates, and they should have known that would be the case - it's not like the gaming industry hadn't been trying and failing to do the same for years.

As a business decision for Microsoft though? Well, we can't very well expect them to simply glide gracefully down their death spiral for our convenience until they're just another software company. They're in a bad position - their core OS business is under assault from both MacOS and Linux, both of which are based on VERY different business models, not to mention Android and others as they become more capable and consumers move away from traditional PCs. And their secondary Office monopoly isn't looking a whole lot better since they were forced to (mostly) adhere to standard file formats. I don't envy them the position they're in, as much as they brought it upon themselves. Where do you go when your investors expect a return, you're already at the top, and your foundation is crumbling?

Re:Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[The Real Dr John]

Agreed, but MS did not become that big because they had a failing business model. Their OS on a PC was considered more affordable than Apple's alternatives, and easier for users than Linux. They could have kept that position and continued to sell to both businesses, the government and the non-Apple non-Linux masses. Windows also allowed people to play lots of games long before that was doable on an Apple or Linux box. Game developers wrote to Direct X rather than OpenGL for the most part. MS had carved out a big and profitable niche. I think if they had really innovated with W10 they could have done very well. Instead they go for the ad, telemetry and app revenue streams. Maybe it is a great business move, but I am not so sure. I have been buying and using Windows since version 1 (started on DOS if you discount punchcards). I built PCs for a living for about 5 years, and in the process I bought and installed hundreds of copies of Windows. Alienating people like me is probably not their best business decision. Windows 8 showed they were not taking the PC desktop space seriously. I think that decision is continuing to hurt them, rather than help them. We will see how putting a facelift on W8 works out.

Re:Windows 10 Forced Onto 270 Million Devices

[Immerman]

I never said hey had a failing business model, only that is is finally becoming one - willful sabotage of the competition and other monopolistic abuse is *extremely* effective, so long as governments don't interfere. But governments have started to interfere, and the competition is starting to catch up. Remember, Linux was barely even a DOS competitor until Win95 was already seeing widespread adoption, at which point Microsoft had long since established themselves as a ruthless anticompetivie monopolist that stomped out all competition, and happily backstabbed even such large "partners" as IBM (OS/2).

I'm not at all convinced their current move is the best decision they could have made, but I'm not sure they're in a position where *any* decision could preserve their current status. Given that, and the fact that modern American corporations have very few options for graceful downsizing, I'm not at all surprised that some very drastic and questionable decisions are being made - the status quo is no longer an option, and it's been a *very* long time since they actually had to seriously consider the possibility of legitimate competition.

PT Barnum was right

[BarbaraHudson]

There's a sucker born every minute. People who believe this is a free gift never heard of a Trojan Horse, and the people following the cheerleaders never heard of a Judas Goat.

Re: PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

98% were tricked into it. The technically illiterate are microshafts core business

Re:PT Barnum was right

[kheldan]

No kidding. To call this the 'fastest adoption of any release ever' is about as valid (and laughable) as some authoritarian dictatorship holding 'free elections' where there's only one candidate, and you're detained if you don't go and vote for him, then claiming a 'landslide victory' with 'record voter turnout'. It's a sham, it's a joke, it's a complete fabrication, it's utter bullshit, and it means NOTHING.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Penguinisto]

I think it's funny that in spite of all the nagging, trickery, and even (in some cases) forced installs of the damned thing, they only got 270m devices to actually do it out of what, billions globally?

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

Who cares if it was a conscious decision or not? The reality is people migrated and we've learned that the majority of people don't care. Microsoft finally followed suit with what others have been doing for years.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[hoggoth]

Are you f'ing kidding? Right now I am looking at that damn 'UPGRADE TO WINDOWS 10' popup on all three of my computers. I've gone into the registry to remove it but it keeps coming back. Several times a day this thing interrupts my work. I dread accidentally clicking the wrong button and having Windows 10 force-fed down a feeding tube onto my computer Guantanamo style.

Re: PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

If you don't know you will never know. All the stories on slashdot over the past couple months. Oh you must be new here.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

Gee, how about the fact that people are reporting forced updates? How about that line in the EULA saying they can share any of your data and traffic with anyone so long as they have a "good faith reason" to do it?

That enough for you? Or are you another of Redmonds soulless shills?

Re:PT Barnum was right

[bluefoxlucid]

Fewer support calls from development shops trying to make stuff work with 6 versions of Windows. Faster deprecation path for Windows 7 and 8. Broader access to the App Store. The ability to just make IE12 work with Windows 10 and tell everyone else Windows 8.1 doesn't support the new Web standards and may fuck up with your Web application.

Ubuntu has two active LTS and a third lagging behind every other year; they have a 9 month support cycle for the 6 month release. That means you get 5 years to update an LTS, and 3 months to update anything else. They only ever have a maximum of three LTS and two non-LTS to support, and a minimum of two and one; there's always a three-month span of time where any and all resources devoted to supporting an old release are reassigned to working on a new release, and there's a one-year span of time where any and all resources devoted to supporting a new LTS are directed toward the next *two* releases (a lead-up and an LTS).

Do you think Microsoft wants to support Windows 7, Windows 8.1, Windows 10, Windows 2008r2 server, Windows 2012, and Windows 2015 for the next 15 years? Do you think they want to backport the app store and Windows Container Services, or get called out for heavily advertising these features while 80% of their OS products don't actually support them?

If I were Microsoft, I'd be pushing for a consolidated platform with a Windows core (2015, 2018, etc.) running a Windows desktop (Windows 10) or a Windows server (Windows Server 2015) application suite. There would be one system with one set of core services and libraries; and there would be applications available on each type of installation. If you write it for Windows 10 Desktop, it runs on Windows 10 Server; if you want to use local AD or HyperV and that's a Server feature, maybe it doesn't run on Windows 10 Desktop. Either way, what you're talking about is software, and not potential compatibility issues between operating systems.

I'd also have a campaign to compact my profile to two core releases. I don't want to support 2009, 2011, 2012, 2015, and 2018 software while I'm releasing 2020 software.

If that means getting my users to upgrade to the latest and greatest for free, then so be it. The cost savings for getting all these people moved up will offset the lost profits, especially when you consider none of these people were ever going to get Windows 10 until they got new machines--which they're going to do at likely the same pace anyway. The actual lost income from giving the damn OS away is going to be fractional, possibly too small to measure, and the total cost is only going to amount to the bandwidth.

Did you think it would cost MS anything? Sometimes a free gift really is free: the person giving it to you has absolutely nothing to gain by withholding it, and nothing to lose by giving it. It may or may not have actually cost them anything; it might have cost them a lot and turned out both useless and impossible to resell. We like to think of things in terms of us getting stuff, and not in terms of what the other guy is losing or gaining from it; so of course one man's garbage becomes another man's treasure.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

"Anniversary Update" - meaning the honeymoon is over?

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

Sounds similar to McDonald's slogan "Billions and Billions Served". All those people can't be wrong, right?

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft has altered the deal. Pray they do not alter it further.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[NotDrWho]

In the sucker's defense, he may not have even been aware that the Trojan horse was getting in the gate until he woke up one morning and found that his gates had opened automatically without asking him.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

I dread accidentally clicking the wrong button and having Windows 10 force-fed down a feeding tube onto my computer Guantanamo style.

So what you're saying is that, despite your paranoia, nothing of the sort has happened to you or anybody you know? Yes, your lunacy is surely warranted.

A few thoughts:

1) If it's a work computer, your IT is staffed with incompetent bozos if they're allowing your computers to pull updates directly from Microsoft.
2) If it's a work computer, your company will decide when to upgrade you.
3) if it's a work computer, you probably shouldn't be doing personal things on it anyway - and if your employer is fine with the data collection policies while you're not, you should find a new job.
4) If you don't like Windows, why the fuck are you using it in the first place?
5) It's been no secret for YEARS that Windows will phone home to Microsoft. You kept using Windows.
6) If you can point to a single instance where Microsoft has forced a Linux or Mac user to upgrade to Windows 10, I'll pay you a million dollars.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Knightman]

TANSTAAFL!

In this instance you seem to get a free/forced OS-upgrade when in reality Microsoft makes you and your information a product which they can capitalize on.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[gstoddart]

Well, they've essentially shoved it up the asses of the unsuspecting masses.

My in-law's laptop got updated, and they have no idea how, it just did it because Windows updates decided to and they never got asked as far as they know.

It's easy to get high adoption rates when you do the upgrade without actually asking permission.

It's not so much that the world is full of suckers, is most people haven't got much understanding of what Windows Update is doing to them. They just wake up one day and say "wow, my computer looks different".

Me, I figure Microsoft has made themselves VERY untrusted because they've taken to actively concealing what's really in updates. I figure I have more risk from running their updates than I do with my computer behind a firewall and not running any of their stuff except the OS.

Re: PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

He is not new, microsoft pays him to post this stuff.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[kheldan]

I'll be honest with you: If they weren't actively installing spyware along with their gods-be-damned OS, I'd probably just scratch my head at the rest of their antics and move on. But that's what they're doing: They're actively spying on users, taking control of their computers, forcing updates, and generally disregarding the private ownership rights of end users. THAT IS THE PROBLEM: Taking away CHOICE. I don't CARE what their reasons are, I don't want anyone taking away my right to choose. Luckily I have choice, still: I can run something other than Windows. Of course the news we see lately also points towards Microsoft infiltrating the FOSS community to annex and subvert Linux as well. Microsoft wants to own ALL computers and have NO other choices that they don't directly control. THEY CAN GO TO HELL. I'd rather have NO computing devices at ALL than have anything forced on me.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you think Microsoft wants to support Windows 7, Windows 8.1, Windows 10, Windows 2008r2 server, Windows 2012, and Windows 2015 for the next 15 years? Do you think they want to backport the app store and Windows Container Services, or get called out for heavily advertising these features while 80% of their OS products don't actually support them?

Microsoft built their empire on backward compatibility.

Microsoft changes the script now at it's own peril.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll assume you've heard the ramblings about Windows X2, Correct? No? Shame... slated to release in a few years I'm sure.

/s in its passes over head

Re: PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

Microsoft doesn't need to pay anyone. The numbers speak for themselves. The customers made their choice. Nobody boycotted Microsoft's product over the Windows 10 upgrade. You nerds have been defeated. Move your lardy ass to your little corner and rock yourself back and forth crying over the injustices of the world while the rest of us carry on with our lives.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[QuietLagoon]

...If that means getting my users to upgrade to the latest and greatest for free, then so be it. ...

Therein lies the flaw in your logic.

.
Windows 10 is not free. The cost is the data harvesting that Microsoft is doing to Windows 10 users.

No longer is the person using Windows a Windows user. With the advent of Windows 10, the person using Windows 10 is a product, information to be gathered and sold.

While I agree with your comments about the need to consolidate the various versions of Windows, that multiplicity of versions is Microsoft's own fault. It was Microsoft who wanted "product differentiation" for little more than marketing reasons.

The need to consolidate all those versions does not justify the mass harvesting of data from the users of Windows 10 and their families. The need to consolidate all those versions does not justify the extremely aggressive push to trick people into installing Windows 10 on their PCs.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[DNS-and-BIND]

Dear Microsoft Social Media representative: you hit all the right talking points, but you left out the issue of consent. All of these issues are from Microsoft's point of view. They make MS's life easier. What about us, the people who actually use the damn things? Did you assholes even bother to ask us what we wanted?

If you're not a paid shill, you should be. You write well, hit all the main points, and are shockingly pro-Microsoft. They're a horrid evil corporation that spies on its users, WTF? Why would anyone do this in their spare time?

Re: PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, not quite tricked. MSFT forced it if you left your update settings as default. Which was just a horrible decision.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

If you left the update settings as default, Win10 was automatically installed.

You have to actively say you do NOT want updates in order not to be trojan horse upgraded.

Clear enough for you?

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Kjella]

You can wrap it any way you will, but either you're stuck supporting old cruft or you stop supporting it and break existing apps that rely on that cruft. Linux distros do this quite a lot, every release they ship a new set of applications and what used to work for you last release in KDE3 now doesn't work - or at least the same way - in KDE4. Both are supported but they didn't promise to take you from A to B in a smooth ride with no regressions. That's why we have releases in the first place and don't go on an eternal rollercoaster of rolling changes. That's why we have LTS releases even though every upgrade is free.

Win10 has pretty much said fuck that, we're strapping you in and you're coming with us where Microsoft wants to go. They make UI changes you don't like? Tough. They break some of your existing software? Tough. There's no staying behind, no picking and choosing unless you pay extra and even then in a very limited fashion unless you're an enterprise. Forget having legacy software that continues to work, anything without a running support agreement you're likely to be fucked by Win10 sooner or later.

It seems you really don't get it, why am I holding on to my Win7 install when the upgrade is free? Same reason I might not want to upgrade from an LTS release, it's about predictability. I know that for about four years more my desktop will stay just the way it is. If I upgrade, I have no idea where Win10.x will be in 2020. I know Microsoft doesn't care about that. Or rather, I know Microsoft wants to get rid of that so the next time they pull a Win8 you're along for the ride whether you want to or not. It's not a free gift, it's a free trojan horse.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

Grab GWX Control Panel from http://ultimateoutsider.com/downloads/

stops the windows 10 issue :)

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Impy the Impiuos Imp]

I wonder what MS is doing with the mysterious info they collect. Is every web page I visit in Chrome reported back to them? (And are they reported to Google? I turned off every option I could find, and that web sotes on the subject said to do, but you never know.)

Re:PT Barnum was right

[oh_my_080980980]

Actually no ass-hole. Microsoft has escalated the update to over-ride settings. So fuck off.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[oh_my_080980980]

And you can fuck off. There is no such thing as latest and greatest. It's just what out now. Microsoft is not forced to support anything ass-hole. They end support. Period. When they have gone back on policy is when a vast majority of BUSINESS USERS continue to use an older version because the new is a piece of shit.

If Microsoft could fix their bugs they wouldn't need to FORCE people to use the newest version.

Re: PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Setting the update system to auto-install security fixes is a reasonable default for the average computer user who doesn't know (or want to know) any better and just wants their computer to work.

Shoving out non-security updates under the security update label is a horrible breach of trust and a line they should never have crossed. Pushing an entire new OS as an update that would be automatically installed by default isn't far behind in the scummy moves list.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

and what else resides in this "helpful" software? keyloggers, etc. You can't trust nobody

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

GWX Control Panel or Never10 will do the work for you. https://www.grc.com/files/never10.exe

Re:PT Barnum was right

[hoggoth]

Thanks! Problem solved. Microsoft gagged by permanent 'watchdog'.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[TheDarkMaster]

I fully agree. And what disturbs me most is the plain face that they use to say such a thing, as if it were absolute truth. I'm afraid of people who can lie with such ease and so much scorn from the intelligence of others.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Rob Y.]

Presumably the valuable info they're collecting is all the same stuff Google's been able to collect for years based on having a search engine people actually wanted to use. Some of us may not like having given this stuff to Google, but at least we did it knowingly and mostly willingly in exchange for a service we most definitely wanted. Microsoft wants to be able to generate an ad revenue stream like Google's, but their search is compromised by a smaller user base. Though, by now their user base must be at least as big as Google's was when Google achieved dominance. In any case, nobody ever willingly signed up to help Microsoft in this way. You could say, I suppose, that users of the Win10 free upgrade are getting something in return - but what about purchasers of new PC's, who are still paying for Win10?

Of course, there's another reason Microsoft wants to out-Google Google. They want to hurt Google as a competitor. They don't want their OS to have to be free - but they're competing with a free Android OS in all the areas where they had hoped to grow, so they have little choice. it's chicken and egg. Beef up their ability to compete with Google (even through loss leaders) until they can remove the threat and go back to business as usual. Or take Google's revenue stream, take a cut of all app sales, and fork off on a new business model based on that.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[TheDarkMaster]

All this would be justified if they were not trying to force integrated spyware in the operating system itself, trying to force the use of "apps" that the developer of the same should kill himself with shame and with an interface that makes me sick to see so much usability disaster. The idea of a one core product is good, but the Windows 10 is too much a piece of shit to be able to hold the position of core system.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[aliquis]

There's a sucker born every minute. People who believe this is a free gift never heard of a Trojan Horse, and the people following the cheerleaders never heard of a Judas Goat.

Yeah, because RichardÂs GNU are so much better.

Free and free.. Yeah, practically. Microsoft haven't granted me a free Windows 10 license though (if any Microsoft employee / someone want too you've got my e-mail address though.)

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Zontar The Mindless]

A few thoughts of my own:

1, 2, 3: I own and operate my work computer. I'm surely not the only one.

4: Hoggoth said nothing about not liking Windows. Hoggoth said he didn't want to be upgraded to Windows 10 from a previous version of Windows against his wishes. Again, not the same thing.

5: That may well be, but that issue is completely orthogonal to this discussion.

6: Again, completely orthogonal to the current discussion. Neither Hoggoth nor anyone else I'm aware of has claimed that they were forced by Microsoft to install Windows 10 over a completely different operating system such as Linux or Mac OS X.

Why you are so anxious to defend Microsoft's upgrade trickery while vilifying users is anybody's guess. But I can make a couple of good ones.

Re: PT Barnum was right

[Zontar The Mindless]

Microsoft doesn't need to pay anyone. The numbers speak for themselves. The customers made their choice. Nobody boycotted Microsoft's product over the Windows 10 upgrade. You nerds have been defeated. Move your lardy ass to your little corner and rock yourself back and forth crying over the injustices of the world while the rest of us carry on with our lives.

Not much of a choice if the upgrade is performed automatically or if the user is misled.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

Just upgrade dude, you'll like it. It's nice. You're going to have to do it sooner or later if you want security updates. I receive pop ups to upgrade to Ubuntu 14.04 all the time. I also receive pop ups to upgrade to the latest google chrome. I am telling you these are useful things. You don't like it, don't click on the pop up. If you don't know what you really want, then upgrade, chances are it is the better decision for uneducated people.

Sure, cortana collects non personally identifiable information, but so does siri and google now. You can disable it. Sure, it reports app crashes and anonymized usage patterns, so do iOS and mac and android(to an extreme). Hell, Gnome even does it. You can even disable it! How else do you expect a software company to determine what apps are being used and how and what people want out of them? Please do tell.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Zontar The Mindless]

If you don't like Windows, then fucking install a different OS. Jesus christ, you twats act like it's the end of the world, and there's no possible alternative you can use.

I don't, and I did, over a decade ago. That doesn't mean I've gone blind to what happens in the Windows world. I don't use a Mac, either, but that doesn't mean I don't read any news regarding Apple.

So far, all your comments can be summed up as, "Anybody who complains should fuck off because he doesn't love Microsoft unconditionally." Not much of an argument, if you ask me.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[war4peace]

I'll be the devil's advocate for just a minute. Bear with me.
You say Microsoft, with Windows 10, is taking choice away. I'd say that all those people who keep running Windows 7 or 8 or 8.1 did, in fact, choose. So the choice is not taken away, but left to only those who do it consciously. Everyone else is either a conscious adopter (as I am) or simply don't know any better (vast majority).
The definition of spyware, then, is somewhat elastic. What you might consider spyware, I might not. Again, by choice. I choose to not agree to your definition of spyware, and you should respect my choice just as I respect yours.

Could Microsoft have done it better? Damn right they could have. I don't deny that. However, I think it all blew out of proportion because a vocal minority (by numbers) imposed a certain point of view (which is not shared by Average Joes) and became a majority (by noise). fact of the matter is that Average Joe couldn't care less. Average Joes usually share their whole life on Facebook anyway; they use the same weak password on all websites they have accounts on. They click yes-next-accept on anything they install. They get malware, ransomware, spyware faster than I could say "fuck me sideways". Windows 10 telemetry doesn't affect them at all - in practice. Only in theory, and that's irrelevant, all things considered.

Now... YOU are not Average Joe. I am not Average Joe. Most people are. That doesn't give me (or you) any right to impose our beliefs and points-of-view onto them. At most, we could tell them "what you are doing is affecting you in theory", while in practice they are affected more by all other shit they do (see above), Windows 10 being the least of their problems.

For the Average Joe, Microsoft "forcing updates" onto their machine might actually be beneficial. For you, it wouldn't. For me, it wouldn't. But then again... your bubble is not the same as theirs.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

If it did not ask them permission and did not ask them to accept the EULA, then do they now own a system that is not covered by the EULA?

I dont know if it is asking people to accept the EULA, i quit running windows when Windows 3.1 went to windows 95. I went from Windows 3.1 directly to linux.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[oblivionboy]

Right -- but if users love it -- especially when they love it versus your next two versions -- why not support it for the next 20 years? Its not like the kernel of Windows 7 and Windows 10 are radically different. Fundamentally the biggist issue with every Windows upgrade after 98 (where we went to Win2k, and then WinXp, and then ...) is that there were no compelling REASONS for users to upgrade.

Support Windows 7 until it has 5% Windows market share, and (as a company Microsoft should) then challenge yourself to make a new Windows release that finally makes people WANT to upgrade....

Re:PT Barnum was right

[war4peace]

Good luck getting Joe Q. Taxpayer to tell you what he wants.
MS didn't create Windows 10 for the 1%ers of the IT world (not by wealth but by knowledge). They created Windows 10 for the rest of the world - and while neither of us agrees with their practice, you have to give it to them: it worked.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Howitzer86]

Just to be clear, the right button is that little "x" on the corner of the window. If you click install later, IT WILL INSTALL LATER. This is how it "force installs" onto computers, by technically receiving permission from the user to do so.

If you want that to go away, and Microsoft's own instructions (that include editing the registry) don't work, use GWX Control Panel. It's worked for me on Windows 8.1 and 7.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[PostPhil]

Instead of news media reporting huge Windows 10 adoption numbers, they should take the forced installs into account and make headlines that tell it like it is: "Non-Consensual Windows 10 Installs: Is Microsoft Guilty of Mass Computer Rape?"

Re:PT Barnum was right

[MitchDev]

He's an "Anonymous Coward", do you think he has any actual reason?

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, Chrome does log your visited sites (unless you disable that in settings)...but Google doesn't sell that data to 3rd parties, unlike MS!

Re:PT Barnum was right

[bluefoxlucid]

There's a lot of talk about Microsoft spyware, but no substantiation. People pull out EULAs and talk about what Cortana does when you ask it to search the 'net for you, and they pull up things saying Windows hit 6,000 DNS requests in one day, and have no explanation of what or how there's end-user monitoring.

Linux has an awful lot of network activity when idle; I think Debian and Slackware are spying on end users...

Re:PT Barnum was right

[qubezz]

Also, turn off automatic updates to avoid a repackaged version of the thing sneaking back in. Microsoft is not to be trusted.

There are many other updates to remove also. The Windows update agent has had continual version pushes every month and has the backend to automatically download the windows update files to your computer. Telemetry updates are now tracking your Windows 7 even if you opted out of the customer experience improvement program.

I have an ever-growing script that uses DISM to remove the long list of infected KB updates. Here's a start: http://forums.mydigitallife.in...

Re:PT Barnum was right

[ihtoit]

I have the harcore solution to this.

Here’s how to armour your head.

To start with, disabling tasks under Task Manager or Scheduler doesn’t work, since the GWX process has a kernel hook which checks every so often and relaunches itself if it’s not already running. To me that sounds like a BHO. If you try and disable the scheduled tasks the system tells you you’re not allowed to do that, not even under full admin privileges. That’s malware behaviour. Likewise if you try and delete the GWX folder, which resides in /Windows/System32. Microsoft does not want to let you prevent this from going ahead.

Any right thinking person with even a modicum of computer system security sensibility would now be thinking: it does not matter if Windows 10 free upgrade is good or not. It does not matter if Microsoft has benevolent intentions. The moment you push me into a corner, you corporate pieces of crap, I will fight back with all I can, and you have just turned a loyal owner – and a shareholder – into an enemy. You have made me into a detractor. You have obliterated all and any chance of me ever wanting to even consider upgrading my Windows 7/8 boxes to the new version. In fact, you have made me wish my optical drive was still working so I can rip you out and install an alternative operating system. But really, I don’t have time for that, I just want my system working the way it was before that GWX junk started popping up.

Step 1: take ownership of the GWX folder
Go to /Windows/System32/GWX. Right-click, Properties. Then, go to the Security tab, click Advanced. Under the Owner, click on Edit. Select your account rather than whatever crap Microsoft has preselected. Make sure you tick the box that says subfolders and whatnot. Apply the change. Ignore the warnings and prompts.

Step 2: change folder permissions
On the right tab, click Edit. Then, select your user. Change the permissions to Full Control, and apply. Then, rename the GWX folder to something like GWX.old. And just in case, inside this folder, you may also want to consider renaming the four executable files. Just use any which extension to cripple their executability. Problem solved. I simply deleted the GWX folder but if you’re not confident, rename it. It does the same thing.

Step 3: delete scheduled tasks
Fire up “Regedit” and navigate to HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows NT\CurrentVersion\Schedule\Taskcache\Tasks. What you’ll be faced with is a long list of CLSID entries. These appear to be random (but they’re not and the reason is long and complicated) and the data you want is in the right hand side pane. Go to the Edit menu and click “Find”, type “gwx” (without the quotes) and hit “Find Next”. The application will highlight the first entry, where you’ll see “GWX” under the key-value pair “Path”. On the left pane, locate the hive (folder) that this entry resides in (easy, it should already be highlighted) and export it (right click it) and then right-click delete it. There will by now be eleven entries. You’ll know you’ve got them all when you jump to a new section under .\\TaskCache\Tree\Microsoft\Windows\Setup. There you will be dropped into a hive with two entries: GWC and GWXTriggers. Export both of these and delete them. Launch Task Scheduler and make sure it runs with no errors.

Step 4: disable automatic Windows Update
Now you’ve killed GWX, you need to make sure Microsoft isn’t about to work around it and force a new kernel on you without your infdormed consent. Start the Windows Update tool from the control panel and check, it should now be disabled. If it isn’t, go into the settings and adjust to disable automatic updates. You can now either leave WU off and manually install updates after checking them for safety or leave WU altogether and risk missing an actual important update which ma

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

"Marketing" and "Propaganda" are literally the same thing. It's the most dissonant of arts; it uses truth (feeling/emotion) to sell a lie (product).

Re:PT Barnum was right

[ihtoit]

and they even let you keep the bit of frontal lobe they take out, in a nice little pickle jar you can keep next to your bed!

Sweet.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

They've been kicked out of the largest markets in Asia, so MS has already lost. And those are markets with utterly no need of help to make-up for any damage they do if they infiltrate and subvert "FOSS." Whether India or China (the two that really matter for numbers of installs) or else Russia or Europe or South Africa (filled with developers who can also route around MS-caused damage), the fork has already been stuck into MS and the fire underneath to roast the company is just heating-up.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

No kidding. To call this the 'fastest adoption of any release ever' is about as valid (and laughable) as some authoritarian dictatorship holding 'free elections' where there's only one candidate, and you're detained if you don't go and vote for him, then claiming a 'landslide victory' with 'record voter turnout'. It's a sham, it's a joke, it's a complete fabrication, it's utter bullshit, and it means NOTHING.

Didn't they also say that Windows 10 would be running on "Trillions of devices" within the first 2 months?

Re: PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

Ballmer, bro, you need to chillax. Are you denying that the upgrade to windows 10 downloaded itself? Or that it only offered the option to postpone it but not to disable it? Or that you need third party software to disable the damn notification? Whatever the case, this is no way to treat your customers.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

meh. microsoft has always had the capability to deploy spyware. as the other AC said, yes, by default chrome sends google every website you visit (i think it's some kind of anti-phishing thing) and also sends what you're typing in the url bar (this applies to firefox as well).

i'm of two minds about it. both microsoft and google are providing valuable services in exchange for knowing every last little detail about your online behavior.

for cows who think computers are magickal palantirs powered by unicorn farts, maybe that's a good thing. i'd rather that the cows have an up-to-date operating system and browser that try to prevent malware and phishing than continuing to need to support windows xp and ie 6. (i'm not exactly an altruistic person.)

for those of us in the know who are also wary about two very large companies hoovering up our information, linux and duckduckgo are good alternatives. i'm not absolutely sure if i can trust chromium, but i don't have a reason to be that paranoid about an open source browser i compile myself.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[kheldan]

For the Average Joe, Microsoft "forcing updates" onto their machine might actually be beneficial

The operative word there is 'FORCING'.

Also your 'average Joes', 'couldn't care less', because they don't know any better. They don't understand what's being done. If a crook is stealing from people who don't even know something is being stolen from them, does that make it any less of a crime? Rhetorical question, because a crime is a crime. Microsoft is making choices for people and taking data from people who (assuming your 'Average Joes' again) don't understand or even know what's being done. It's still not right. YES, this is as much a philosophical discussion as it is a practical (or perhaps LEGAL) one, but that doesn't mean it doesn't matter. And before you or anyone else says that I or any of the other so-called 'vocal minority' are as bad as Microsoft so far as making choices for people: Who has the responsibility to look out for the interests of people who are being taken advantage of, who neither understand what's being done, let alone have the ability to look out for themselves? I have the technical knowledge, awareness, and expertise to make my own informed choices in this matter; I have NOTHING to gain from trying to inform and guide others away from things I believe are unfair to them and harmful, other than the satisfaction of knowing I've done it, and you can scoff at that and call me a 'white knight' all you want, and it changes nothing about me, my intentions, or my actions in this matter. I believe what Microsoft is doing is WRONG, I believe that there are many, many others out there who have no idea they're being taken advantage, and I believe that it is in everyone's long-term best interests that what Microsoft is doing should be revealed and explained to all, and that it should have a stop put to it.

You can now go right ahead and tell me I didn't listen to a thing you said. You'll be wrong, of course. I just don't agree and have just re-affirmed my beliefs and mission statement. Microsoft needs to be STOPPED.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

If it wasn't /., I'd say you're a fucking moron. Uninstall KB3035583, and don't let Windows Update install it again. M$Soft will try to install it, but you have a choice of unchecking it, and not installing it when you apply windows updates the next time around.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

The only reason to register and post under a name is to attack the person making the comment. Try responding to the content of a comment for a change, cupcake.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[dj245]

No kidding. To call this the 'fastest adoption of any release ever' is about as valid (and laughable) as some authoritarian dictatorship holding 'free elections' where there's only one candidate, and you're detained if you don't go and vote for him, then claiming a 'landslide victory' with 'record voter turnout'. It's a sham, it's a joke, it's a complete fabrication, it's utter bullshit, and it means NOTHING.

Some of these "elections" are more of a census than an election. Sometimes this is misinterpreted when the language is translated to English. In a country with only one main political party, obviously "election day" is going to have an expected result. The real political mechanisms happen behind closed doors, just like they do in the US. The US and some of these authoritarian dictatorships are really not that different.

Re: PT Barnum was right

[Alumoi]

The average computer user should know better than installing things automatically.
I think you mean auto-install security fixes is a reasonable default for 'computer literate' people a.k.a able to turn on the computer and click every ok/next they see.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

...but Google doesn't sell that data to 3rd parties, unlike MS!

Bwahahaha! You owe me a keyboard, son.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

Makes you wonder how many of those global installs are illegitimate. Perhaps 270m 'legitimate' installs is not that far off.

Re: PT Barnum was right

[Immerman]

No, they should know better than to install things intentionally - that's how most trojans and malware gets installed after all. Their IT guy should better than to leave them without security updates, or to count on them to intervene in any way.

For the vast majority of people out there a computer is little more than an internet appliance. And as mechanical appliance manufacturers long since learned, any maintenance beyond wiping it down with a wet rag needs to be done automatically or it won't occur at all, or be done horribly wrong. That's why practically all modern freezers are self-defrosting, despite the the horrible efficiency cost and dramatic acceleration of freezer burn.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Immerman]

Really? Do you get notified when someone replies to your AC posts? Or have people recognize your name and banter together? Lots of other reasons to register an account.

Personally, I rarely reply to ACs unless they say something worth posting a follow-up to, actual conversations seem rare.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Darinbob]

I think there are several executives at Microsoft whose bonuses are based upon adoption rate of Windows 10. It explains all the dirty tricks they've been pulling. Even VW would be embarrassed to do something like this. I can not fathom why there are still Windows fans out there willing to accept and forgive this sort of behavior.

Earlier in the week someone at worked asked the group of people in meeting who had gotten Windows 10 yet. Only one hand was raised and the person said that he upgraded from Windows 8 but soon regretted it (he did not know that it was easy to downgrade for 6 months).

Re:PT Barnum was right

[vux984]

when in reality Microsoft makes you and your information a product which they can capitalize on.

Yeah... but they backported that stuff to 7 and 8 too... so giving you 10 doesn't really move that bar much for them.

And you not upgrading to 10 from 7 or 8 doesn't really solve the information control problem.

So... no. That explanation doesn't really add up.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Darinbob]

These types of governments are extremely different, in almost every way. I know you're trying to push the propaganda that the US is the worst country of all time, sheesh get a grip on reality. We are allowed to bitch and moan about Obama all we want and not go to jail for it, newspapers with opposing viewpoints are not shut down, and the neat political process behind closed doors is regularly upended by third party candidates, disruptive wings of the parties, etc. Democracy is messy and that's one of the good things about it.

Re: PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

It's also worth remembering that the average computer user doesn't have a dedicated "IT guy" to set up their system. That might still be true even if you only consider use at work.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Darinbob]

I don't give a shit what Microsoft wants. What Microsoft customer's want is vastly more important. And the Microsoft customers want long term support for stuff they paid good money for. It is not our job to ensure Microsoft has good revenue or provide charity to them. Windows 10 does not have anything the majority of customers want, it only exists in order to extract more money. They're making the new version free (*temporarily*) and the customers still do not want it. That should be a giant hint to Microsoft that they seem unable to figure out.

This free gift is not free.

If I were Microsoft I'd try to give the customers both what they want or what they need instead of constantly trying to screw them over with something they neither want nor need.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Darinbob]

The average customer doesn't care because the average customer doesn't understand the issues involved. The average customer however is rapidly migrating to tablets and smart phones and realizing they don't need a big ass laptop or desktop anymore just to browse the web. The people who do care about what they are running and are likely to be longer term customers are the ones who don't want Windows 10.

A forced upgrade is always a bad idea, always ask first and get permission and always provide accurate and honest information about what they are getting. It would also help if the forced upgrade at least provided some benefit at all, or a benefit without a massive drawback coming along for the ride. No one needs to be forced to have spyware installed. No one needs to be forced to use their store. A reasonable company should be making products that the customers actually want instead of just making crap and assuming that most of the apathetic customers will click "ok" if an upgrade screen pops up.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

FWIW I took ownership of the GWX folder, set permissions to prevent anything writing there ever again.

It lasted 2 months, and boy was I pissed when it was back again. The gall it must take to change permissions I'd specifically set is unfathomable...

My next steps would have been similar to yours, but I just grabbed the GWX Control Panel instead, because I'm lazy.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Darinbob]

Good luck if you bought a brand new computer with state of the art Skylake on it so that you can run Windows 7 or 8, as the original plan for long term support for those versions was drastically shortened for that CPU, yanking the rug out from under the customers. How could anyone continue to trust Microsoft after pulling such a stunt?

Re: PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't actually care if they determine anything about how users interact with their software. You act like that's some kind of right. It isn't. I want, expect, and will force my computer to act in my best interests, and my best interests include my computer telling Microsoft or anybody else nothing that I don't explicitly allow.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[jez9999]

Thanks, that's a really nice piece of software I'm gonna be running from now on!

Fuck you and your heavyhanded tactics Microsoft.

Re: PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

It worked? Really? A relatively pathetic 270 million machines, the majority of which were installed by trickery and requiring users to actively attack their own OS (and to have the requisite skills to do so) and you call that working?

Maybe average users don't care. I actually think they do care but they don't know the points of this debate well enough to have an informed opinion. However, Microsoft has pissed off people who are informed and who are crucial to their commercial success. That damage won't come immediately but it will come.

I'm not going to rip out my MS stuff out of spite, but I will consider alternatives much more readily now. I'm not putting Linux in desktops yet other than my own but I have blocked adoption of Windows 10 for now, won't allow development of 'universal' apps, have banned the Windows Store, and I've rescinded my 'no Macs' policy too.

Basically, I'll do what I can to make sure their vision of the future fails because it's not a vision with choices, and it's not a vision with me owning my own stuff. Over time, not relying on Microsoft will become easier until one day they're no longer needed. I'm scarcely alone in this. That's the attitude they've created in decision makers now. Can they fix it? They can. Will they? Guess we'll see.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

Why in the fuck is an OS telling the user what web standards you can use?

Oh wait, it can't.

Edge sucks worse than IE anyway.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 10 comes with a keylogger. Before Windows 10, it merely offered an API for people wanting to make a keylogger.

The first is being actively evil, the second is rank incompetence.

It is malware by any definition.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[vilanye]

The network activity you see with Linux is normal network protocol stuff.

What you won't see is packets going outside your network unlike MS that sends data to dozens of MS owned IP addresses

If you can't see the difference, well that is on you.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Some_Llama]

paste into notepad and save as .reg then run, disables winx upgrade.
everything below =

=
Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\GWX]
"DisableGWX"=dword:00000001

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\WindowsUpdate\OSUpgrade\State]
"AllowOSUpgrade"=dword:00000000
"ReservationsAllowed"=dword:00000000

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate]
"DisableOSUpgrade"=dword:00000001

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Blaskowicz]

Maybe that Skylake story is just to scare people into compliance.
Also, no matter what Microsoft does you have to rely on Intel for those driver updates.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[war4peace]

You have a strange definition for "stealing".
Microsoft has been anything BUT underhanded here. Everything's in that big-ass EULA that nobody reads.
Average Joes don't care because they don't care, it's as simple as that. You could yell words into their ears, they still won't listen (been there, done that).
Yes, Microsoft's making choices for people because people (those average "wanna browse the net" types) have no clue. They actually would rather have someone else take that matter from their hands.
Microsoft understood that. It's using some information that those users don't value anyway and gives them a free operating system instead. The "wrongness" of it is ultimately in the eye of the beholder.
Analogies abound: GMOs, gas-guzzling cars, guns, pollution, homosexuality, etc., etc - they all are wrong to someone and right to someone else. If people are too limited to be able to weigh the benefits versus the downsides of this and that, it's their problem.

I'm working with lots of IT-illiterate people and have been informing them that Windows 10 has telemetry and is using some information from their computers - none of them gave a shit. Maybe 2 of 100 asked a couple more questions, then lost interest and installed it anyway. About 5 of 100 feigned outrage and... installed it anyway. After seeing that I simply lost my will to educate the world. It was, if you will, a wake-up call for me.

I really feel the need to emphasize this: we're both on the same side, I just hung my guns on the wall and gave up soldiering for the sheep herd because I realized it won't change shit. In all fairness, I'm more preoccupied by global warming than Windows 10 telemetry.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

The only reason to register and post under a name is to attack the person making the comment.

APK? Certainly sounds like his brand of "logic".

(Posting Anon because I'm one of his preferred targets.)

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't give Google anything.

That is what startpage.com is for.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[geoskd]

I'm afraid of people who can lie with such ease and so much scorn from the intelligence of others.

Around here, we call them "marketers", and somebody,whom I have never met, pays them hundreds of thousands of dollars in annual salary to do it!

Re:PT Barnum was right

[geoskd]

For the Average Joe, Microsoft "forcing updates" onto their machine might actually be beneficial.

So, to paraphrase: "They raped her, and she might be a better person because of the experience..."

Re:PT Barnum was right

[ihtoit]

I did the above last August. I haven't seen GWX on any of my systems since.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

do you actually believe the bullshit you are writing?

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Kjella]

Good luck if you bought a brand new computer with state of the art Skylake on it so that you can run Windows 7 or 8, as the original plan for long term support for those versions was drastically shortened for that CPU, yanking the rug out from under the customers. How could anyone continue to trust Microsoft after pulling such a stunt?

Actually it's a bit confusing what they support they were talking about, the FAQ states:

Through July 17, 2018, new Skylake devices on the supported list will also be supported with Windows 7 and Windows 8.1. During the support period, these systems should be upgraded to Windows 10 to continue receiving support after the period ends. After July 17 2018, Microsoft will continue to deliver all critical Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 security updates to Skylake devices until the respective end of support dates.

Since critical security updates are what you expect in extended support you should be able to use a Skylake system until end of W7/W8 support. I'm actually not sure what other support they're talking about ending in 2018, maybe something related to OEM downgrade support or some paid support options? In any case, that generation should be good. Kaby Lake might be another story, then again the x86 chips themselves should be fully backwards compatible so it should come down to drivers unless Microsoft artificially blocks it. If you need another box the improvements have been rather marginal lately so getting a second-hand Skylake to last until 2020 should be quite okay and at that point you really are out of support anyway, then it's Mac, Linux or whatever Microsoft has cooked up by then.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

I'll be honest with you: If they weren't actively installing spyware along with their gods-be-damned OS, I'd probably just scratch my head at the rest of their antics and move on. But that's what they're doing: They're actively spying on users, taking control of their computers, forcing updates, and generally disregarding the private ownership rights of end users. THAT IS THE PROBLEM: Taking away CHOICE. I don't CARE what their reasons are, I don't want anyone taking away my right to choose. Luckily I have choice, still: I can run something other than Windows. Of course the news we see lately also points towards Microsoft infiltrating the FOSS community to annex and subvert Linux as well. Microsoft wants to own ALL computers and have NO other choices that they don't directly control. THEY CAN GO TO HELL. I'd rather have NO computing devices at ALL than have anything forced on me.

Well said. This AC agrees 100%.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Darinbob]

That's true. I never get much of anything beyond security and critical updates. But it won't include all the other things they might have bug fixes for, and they have a lot of bug fixes. Most of them never applied for me but some did. So if there's a bug fix for "remote desktop not working when standing on one leg" that you need you won't be able to get that. What's critical to getting your system to work may not be considered a critical fix by Microsoft.

The confusing thing is that they have a lot more updates that say they require previous updates to be installed first.

But they are defining the support for newer systems to be shorter than the support for older systems, and that's just weird. They want new systems to be on new Windows versions so that it shortens the amount of time when they never have to worry about older systems ever again, except it won't happen as there will still be Broadwell and older systems still going strong in 2023. They're thinking about what's good for Microsoft and not what's good for their not-so-valued customers.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[BarbaraHudson]

I am certainly not a fan of the foot-cheese-eater. MIT license all the way :-)

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't worry - you can have a non-Google, non-Android phone that runs Android apps.
And you can have a linux-based tablet running the same O/S, running all your normal FLOSS applications, with no danger of MS ever getting their grubby fingers on it ...
https://jolla.com/jolla/
https://jolla.com/tablet/

Those ex-Nokia folk will NEVER let MS anywhere near their beautiful little babies.

You're welcome.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[war4peace]

Your analogy is retarded but hey, no surprise there.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[bluefoxlucid]

The network activity you see with Linux is normal network protocol stuff.

What you won't see is packets going outside your network unlike MS that sends data to dozens of MS owned IP addresses

The biggest alarm blog post about 5,000 network packets going out in one day from Windows 10 was mostly DNS resolution, which is normal network protocol stuff.

I was specifically talking about my machine constantly phoning home to places like us.debian.org and sending http requests for specific .deb files related to the programs I have installed. Most distributions now also use things like apport to report bugs in your software as soon as something goes wrong with your system. There's always chatter going back to a distribution Web server or an automated bug report collecting system when you're using Linux.

Windows pings Microsoft asking about updates all the fucking time, too. That's why you get updates immediately when they're out: Windows just downloads new lists of software from the Windows store and from Windows Update. In Windows 10, it installs them and then pops up dialogues saying it's going to reboot at 3am.

These are ... the same behaviors.

Re:PT Barnum was right

[vandamme]

4) Good point. Don't get mad, get Linux!

Re:PT Barnum was right

[Anonymous Coward]

DNS resolution to MS servers not DNS resolution because of user activity.

DNS queries are not part of normal background activity.

90% of the Windows generated traffic in Windows 10 is not present in Windows 8 or 7. It is traffic that is sending data on you back to MS.

smh

Re:PT Barnum was right

[gzuckier]

I fully agree. And what disturbs me most is the plain face that they use to say such a thing, as if it were absolute truth. I'm afraid of people who can lie with such ease and so much scorn from the intelligence of others.

I still remember the ads for the IBM AT "so advanced that it will run programs that haven't been written yet"

Re:PT Barnum was right

[gzuckier]

I wonder what MS is doing with the mysterious info they collect. Is every web page I visit in Chrome reported back to them? (And are they reported to Google? I turned off every option I could find, and that web sotes on the subject said to do, but you never know.)

At monthly meetings, employees are treated to a powerpoint of what customers are visiting and they laugh and throw popcorn.

Actual numbers, please?

[kheldan]

Can someone please find (if it exists) the REAL number, that doesn't count the copies of Win10 that were FORCED on people, who didn't ask for it or wanted it?

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[cfalcon]

I mean, are we sure there are ANY consensual copies of Windows 10?

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean they now have a version that installs even if you decline the EULA? I had not heard that.

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[Penguinisto]

Remember - if your computer was drunk, it is not consensual. Running Windows 8 counts as 'drunk' in this context.

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[Anonymous Coward]

Forced? Funny how all of the people I know that want Windows 10, aren't allowed to upgrade! I wish they'd force it on me.

I have a three year-old Dell laptop running Vista since our development system then wouldn't run on 7, and two Windows Enterprise edition laptops. Microsoft doesn't allow any of those three computers to upgrade. I want it! Please, force it on me!

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[kheldan]

I see.. so if a con-man tricks you into giving him all your money, it's your fault? If a kid walks up to a van parked on the street that has 'FREE CANDY' painted on the side, and he gets kidnapped and molested, it's the kids' fault it happened? A woman out for the evening gets attacked and raped, and it's her fault for 'dressing like a whore' or whatever half-assed reason you might give? Are we embracing victim shaming now? Is that what's going on here?

Re: Actual numbers, please?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm in the same position. I want to upgrade all of my Windows machines, but Microsoft doesn't allow any of them to upgrade to 10.

Re: Actual numbers, please?

[Anonymous Coward]

Screwing a Enterprise users was a huge WTF. Microsoft is so hostile to us.

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[NotDrWho]

MS counts it as a WIndows 10 sale if they didn't install GWX Control Panel on Windows 7 or 8.

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[NotDrWho]

Is it MS's fault that you didn't buy Windows 7 or 8?

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[kheldan]

Really? And all the people who didn't want it and managed to dodge it, but had 'telemetry' patches slipped in on them should be OK with that, too? Bull-fucking-shit.

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows Registry Editor Version 5.00

[HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\Gwx]
"DisableGwx"=dword:00000001

Then kill GWX.exe in task manager.

Never had I seen any prompts since I've done that to any computer I've touched. Why is special software necessary? Why is uninstalling/hiding then re-hiding patches necessary?

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[thegarbz]

Yep right here. Had a computer that came with Windows 8. Windows 10 is a great improvement on that piece of shit.
Shame the computer doesn't run Windows 7 but I did consent and voluntarily install Windows 10. If you don't give a shit about privacy (and on that specific machine I don't), then underneath it's actually quite decent.

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[sexconker]

I bet the 270 million number also includes all the XBOX Ones and the few dozen Windows Phones, as well as all the licenses OEMs have bought for PCs they plan to sell.

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[IWantMoreSpamPlease]

You mean like retail versions or VLKs?

I'd say the number is 0.

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[mjm1231]

You also have to take into account that the titles states that "Windows 10 now runs..." I have a Lenovo laptop in my house on which Windows 10 update was installed, but to say it runs would be an exaggeration.

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[Noah Haders]

was win 10 a free upgrade from 8? I think it should be free, at least for home / student use.

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[Anonymous Coward]

Sea kelp.

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[Anonymous Coward]

Yup, it's a free upgrade all the way back to windows 7. It's really quite amazing, and it's about time they catch up to apple in that regard.

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[Anonymous Coward]

I see.. so if a con-man tricks you into giving him all your money, it's your fault? If a kid walks up to a van parked on the street that has 'FREE CANDY' painted on the side, and he gets kidnapped and molested, it's the kids' fault it happened? A woman out for the evening gets attacked and raped, and it's her fault for 'dressing like a whore' or whatever half-assed reason you might give? Are we embracing victim shaming now? Is that what's going on here?

Obviously it's your fault if you put yourself in a bad situation. Nobody else put you there. Now if someone told you to get the free candy, or to dress like a whore, it is now that person's fault. People can be at fault without being the aggressor. If you pull into an intersection and park there, then yes it is your fault that you got hit by someone.

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[Anonymous Coward]

You want to be assraped with no reach around?

Because that is what you are begging for.

Putting all the spyware in it aside, forced upgrades are breaking installs all the damn time.

Don't complain when you beg to be raped and you end up with AIDS.

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd be more interested in other statistics Microsoft collects from these 270 million machines, like: the total number of keys pressed per month, the most typed words, the most visited websites, statistics about installed software including the software of Microsofts competitors, strangest things in webcam "test" data, harddisk usage, nearby wireless network names and statistics, etc.

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[Anonymous Coward]

Out of the box, Win8 was a steaming pile of crap.

I disabled the touch screen, got rid of the annoying on screen keyboard icon that kept coming back (seriously, with a real keyboard right under the screen, why would I ever want to use the onscreen keyboard??), got CLASSIC SHELL, set it to boot straight to desktop. A few annoying hoops to jump through, but with that done, it is mostly not too bad. Could be worse (it was).

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[qubezz]

I have contributed over a dozen machines to their count that aren't running Windows 10. I upgrade the system from a user-data-free Windows 7 disk image just to lock in the "one year Windows 10 free upgrade", which puts the computer configuration in the Microsoft databases of activated systems. The computer will then be automatically activated over the Internet if Windows 10 was needed in the future, even from a fresh install.

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[Anonymous Coward]

Congratulations, you're a sociopathic asshole.

Yay?

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[kheldan]

No, you're giving sociopathic assholes a bad rap with that, believe it or not, because you're lumping them in with a garden-variety 4chan/b/-level troll.

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[Darinbob]

Remember, they declared Vista a huge success also based on the number of people who had Vista pre-installed on new computers.

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[Darinbob]

It's only temporarily free though, until July.

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[jez9999]

It's the Jack The Ripper of operating systems.

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[Anonymous Coward]

Also, exclude any mobile devices (do people actually use Windows phones?)

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[Noah Haders]

after july, you can't download a free copy? or after july, all the free copies expire and need to be paid for?

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[Darinbob]

I'm pretty sure that after july you can't get a free copy. But who knows how Microsoft will handle things, they may extend the free copy. If they don't then there will at least be a reprieve from the automatic upgrades as they'll want payment :-)

But you can get a copy today for free and get it on ISO. Then you can authenticate later I would think as long as you have your license code. But if you want a free in-place upgrade over the internet you won't be able to do that after July.

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[Anonymous Coward]

the rest of the data revealed that only 37 of those people actually wanted to 'upgrade' their windows 7 or 8.1 systems, and two-thirds of those reverted or tried to revert back. that wouldn't have looked good for microsoft, so the fact was conveniently ignored by the shill that wrote the article.

microsoft's windows 10 "sales" number obviously includes

** systems forced to upgrade to 10, regardless of the user's wishes.
** oem licenses committed-to but not actually used yet by major oems,
** oem licenses 'used' but factory-downgraded to 8.1 or 7, and the user hasn't actually used it the windows 10 yet.
** product in the supply chain but not actually used yet,
** windows volume license agreements, because the majority of those include windows 10 by default -- for every seat of the license, even if not actually used.
** additional made-up sales to make things look good for microsoft.

Re:Actual numbers, please?

[wvmarle]

That is one thing.

Also notable is that only absolute numbers appear: total number of installations. Not relative numbers. It seems the "one of the fastest uptake ever" is measured in numbers of installations, rather than market share. Also note, it's "one of the fastest", not even "the fastest".

So that means they get not even the fastest uptake while 1) strongly urging, almost forcing people to upgrade; where 2) the upgrade is free of charge, and 3) the total installed base of computers is larger than it has ever been in history.

And they're even proud of that achievement?!

Read between the lines?

[Nidi62]

The company also announced that it will be releasing Windows 10 Anniversary Update this summer for all Windows 10 users free of charge.

Which of course not so subtly implies there is a possibility that future updates will not be free of charge....

Re:Read between the lines?

[The-Ixian]

This has been the case with every MS operating system AFAIK.

Once the official support window has lapsed, you can start writing some big checks to MS for extended support.

Re:Read between the lines?

[Anonymous Coward]

This upgrade is NOT free. It downgrades your retail licence to OEM by locking it permanently to your current hardware. I'm surprised no one started a lawsuit about the lack of warnings about that little fact.

Re:Read between the lines?

[jez9999]

Which of course not so subtly implies there is a possibility that future updates will not be free of charge....

I sure hope so. Maybe then I won't have to actively install a control panel to stop them forcibly downloading crap to my hard drive and nagging me constantly to switch away from my perfectly good Windows 7.

And how do they know this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh, right, telemetry...

Re: And how do they know this?

[Anonymous Coward]

Hahaha. Yes. I laughed for quite a while.

Pat on the Back

[Anonymous Coward]

MS is as out of touch as ever. I'd be willing to bet most did not intend to get Win10 and it "just happened" to them. Applaud your brute force tactics all you like MS, you're still idiots.

Wow that's impressive...

[Anonymous Coward]

It was adopted faster than all the other free upgrades they released, and forced pop ups onto every existing Windows computer to nag users into (sometimes accidentally) accepting? That seems like a pretty fair comparison. They've pissed a lot of people off to be able to make this press release.

Surprise, surprise.

[HideyoshiJP]

When you throw it in people's faces every chance you get, of course it's going to take off. Doubly so if it's free. They basically ran the "HEAD ON: APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FOREHEAD!" version of an upgrade campaign. Also...

HEAD ON: APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FOREHEAD!
HEAD ON: APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FOREHEAD!
HEAD ON: APPLY DIRECTLY TO THE FOREHEAD!

Adoption?

[KlomDark]

That's some double-speak right there. Not like people had to put down money for it.

This is more like waking up in the morning to find an abandoned baby on your front porch. Wouldn't call that adoption.

Re:Adoption?

[PingSpike]

Close. But in the full analogy you would bring the baby to the police station only to have it show up on your front porch again tomorrow.

Re:Adoption?

[Anonymous Coward]

Still only a partial analogy.
You would have to put up a "No Baby Dropping Zone" sign (click decline), have that ignored and have the baby on the porch.
Then add a fence (change registry), have that cut through and still wind up with the baby on your porch.
When you take it to the police the last time, they threaten to throw you in jail for child abuse, unless you agree to adopt.

Re:Adoption?

[KlomDark]

Good expansion on my point! :)

Re:Adoption?

[Anonymous Coward]

... even after preemptively asking the authorities not to do that and putting up a sign to that effect (which is also missing by tomorrow).

Re:Adoption?

[Anonymous Coward]

You wake up to find the adoption agency in your house. You can't use your house until they're done setting up the new babby's room. Babby is 300lbs and has an advert for the agency tattooed on its forehead. When they leave, the adoption agency takes your previously adopted child with them. New babby calls the agency regularly to report on what you've been doing.

Thankfully I haven't used windows in years, so I don't know how much of this is a fair analogy.

Corrected summary

[Anonymous Coward]

At its developer conference, Build 2016, Microsoft announced on Wednesday that Windows 10, the latest version of its desktop version which it released on July 29 last year, has now infected over 270 million active computers worldwide. "Windows 10 is off to the fastest adoption of any release ever," said Terry Myerson, executive vice president for Microsoft's Windows and Devices Group. The company also announced that it will be forcing the Windows 10 Anniversary Update this summer for all Windows 10 users free of charge.

Re:Corrected summary

[kheldan]

I am Satya Nadella of the Microsoft. Your computer will be assimilated. We will erase your biological and technological distinctiveness and impose our own. Your computer will adapt to service us. Resistance is futile.

Alternative Headline

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows 7 makes up 63% of all Windows desktop installs.

Cheers

[thisisbluprint]

Thanks for sharing - the sheer number is astounding!

Re:Cheers

[HideyoshiJP]

This is a marketer comment if I've ever heard one. Considering the use of the word "share" in this context, your hyper-positivity, and your only other slashdot contribution being a link last week to some marketing story, I'm going to go out on a limb here and accuse you of being a marketer. I'm not calling you a shill, but I'm also not *not* calling you a shill.

Re:Cheers

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually, the sheer number is unbelievable...

Literally, unbelievable. It is more like an inflated balloon... and when the real number appears it will go flat.

Re:Cheers

[smooth wombat]

Sharing is a perfectly reasonable term to use in this case. It's better than when people claim they're "sharing" music which they never bought, never had the rights to give/share/whatever to anyone else and have no intention of ever paying someone for the work they did.

In this case Microsoft has the rights to all the information regarding Windows 10 (assuming they're not talking out their ass) and have decided to release the information which they have gathered at whatever expense to their company.

That actually is sharing.

Re:Cheers

[Zontar The Mindless]

Oooh, let me be the first to respond to that with a resounding "LOLWUT??"

Surprise?

[ADRA]

A free upgrade shoved down people's throat? Shocked that its the 'fastest adoption ever'.

Re:Surprise?

[ADRA]

Furthermore, it isn't surprising that they released these numbers 'after' flipping the switch on Windows 10 as an auto-install 'recommended update' for prior releases.

Kind of like the McDonalds Sign...

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows has served 10,000,000,000,000 viruses.

Sounds like marketing hype to me

[Nunya666]

Microsoft: Windows 10 is running on 270 million devices. Come join the crowd, your gonna love it!

Reality: .01% of those installations were chosen by the users. The rest were forced onto users with legitimate Win7 or Win8 licenses by the Windows Update process.

Re:Sounds like marketing hype to me

[gstoddart]

Microsoft: Windows 10 is running on 270 million devices. Come join the crowd, your gonna love it!

Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

I only just upgraded this weekend

[cyberchondriac]

I turned off the telemetry and anti-privacy stuff, but FWIW, I actually like Win10. I had Win7 before. I'd used clonezilla to make an image if anything went belly up, and then did the typical online upgrade - I had no issues, except just one that took me a few days to realize: MS Office 2010 starter (Word and Excel only) wouldn't run, claiming it's incompatible with Windows10. I looked online and found some conflicting info, but ultimately there's a KB and a patch for Office 2010 available (released around the time of Windows8, I believe); after installing the patch and rebooting, Word and Excel now open fine.

Re:I only just upgraded this weekend

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you really, really, really sure that you have disabled the slurping/telemetry?
Have you monitored the network traffic coming from your PC?

Go on, take a look at the different 'Phone home' IP's that your PC is sending data too.

Then wipe the disk and install something else. Something that does not phone home all the time.

Re:I only just upgraded this weekend

[Anonymous Coward]

and what OS would that be that would also be able to run Word and Excel?

Re:I only just upgraded this weekend

[ilsaloving]

Unless you installed Windows 10 Enterprise, it is not possible to disable all the telemetry. Is that what you installed?

Re:I only just upgraded this weekend

[Anonymous Coward]

Linux. Put a Windows VM in it with no network access.

Problem solved.

Re:I only just upgraded this weekend

[cyberchondriac]

Nope. Home (because I had Win7 home premium). Well, I disabled *most* of it then I guess.

Re:I only just upgraded this weekend

[cyberchondriac]

Admittedly, no. But my Windows 7 box did it's fair share of that too, so it doesn't seem that different than what I had before. I am not installing something else, there're other ways to deal with it.

Re:I only just upgraded this weekend

[Darinbob]

I have Windows 8.1 and I like it too. But Windows 10 isn't offering anything significant beyond that. I got it for $15 also, not free but for the time it was the closest thing. Now with free Windows 10 I'll pass that by as it's too expensive.

How many satisfied customers

[dcooper_db9]

Microsoft has shown that they can use Windows Update to manipulate people into installing Windows 8 or 10. Now tell me how many of those users would consider Windows 10 to be an improvement over Windows 7? And since pushing their tablet is so important, how many users would consider a table with a Microsoft OS to be a better value than their competitor's options? And how many users who would never consider purchasing from Apple in the past are now reconsidering the value of a Macintosh desktop?

I make a living servicing Microsoft computers and I develop mostly for the Windows OS. I am an expert in MS-Access and VBA (flame>/dev/null). Just about every Windows 10 computer I've seen gets stuck coming out of hybernation and go into a recursive boot. This is a known issue that has remained unresolved since IIRC June of 2015! I've seen this on brand new computers as well as "upgrades".

I have clients who bought brand new computers and stuck them in closets because they couldn't figure out how to use it. Honestly, I can't recommend that my technically unskilled clients consider Linux but I've given up on Windows. I am now recommending that my clients consider buying Macintosh computers.

I can't believe we've gotten here.

Re:How many satisfied customers

[Anonymous Coward]

Yet my entire organization is using Windows 10 (250 not big but substantial) and we have not had to put any pc in the "closet". They work great and we have had 0 problems. Now the majority here are Microsoft haters and i understand that but many people use 10 everyday and it works fine.

Re:How many satisfied customers

[Anonymous Coward]

I just hope you are not handling any sensitive data on those machines..

Re:How many satisfied customers

[Opportunist]

Yes, they are working fine. We have proof.

--signed, MS.

Re:How many satisfied customers

[dcooper_db9]

I'm a bit surprised. Not that the computers are working but that a 250+ organization has already rolled out 10. Most IT departments of size tend to wait, but I work for myself these days so maybe it's rolling out more quickly. In any case, in an environment where you have on-site IT staff the problems are less significant. Windows 8 introduced numerous changes from Win 7. The settings are now split between the control panel and the new settings interface. One of my users couldn't figure out how to setup the WiFi connection. Oh, and Windows reboots after updating and to hell with any unsaved documents. Numerous users have had problems with the Windows account logins. Contacts don't synchronize properly. Email gets retrieved in duplicate. Files get stored in OneDrive and the user is looking for it in their local folders. These are just some of the issues off the top of my head. None of these problems are relevant in the corporate environment.

Re:How many satisfied customers

[Anonymous Coward]

My counter point is that i have had a helluva time maintaining the 15 or so windows 10 devices we have. My imaging process (install in vm, install some applications everyone should have, sysprep and deploy) never works smoothly anymore. For instance, the last patch I am having trouble with was released march 11, kb3140768. I cannot get this patch to install. If you search around, many people have problems with it and it has been the same all year, ever few months or so. MS will release some stupid patch and i have to compeltely rebuild my VM. Contrast to windows 7 where i have had the same x64 vm for 5+ years.

The last one that i recall was 1511 update, which is an "update" but actually reinstalls the entire OS. So you couldnt just upgrade the VM you had to build a whole new machine. But this newest patch isnt an upgrade, its just broken.

Not to mention all the problems sysprep has with the built in applications like candy crush and twitter that redownload themselves and cause sysprep to fail. Yes you can have a group policy to disable those, but its undocumented and i still have problems when i leave the domain to sysprep.

And dont you dare install a second user on your sysprep machine! sysprep will fail with multiple users on the machine now and thats a documented limitation.

The last problem I have had, is immature drivers. Sure you can blame intel or other manufacturers, but the fact is that its my fault for deploying windows 10 before it was ready. I cant blame other companies, i can just work around them, but windows 10 makes it exceptionally hard.

They redid default profiles, so now network default profiles don't work. The re-imagined file associations and how they work, causing more configuration problems. Sure now we can use an XML file to force file associations, great! except you have to apply it every single time the machine boots. Which makes any custom file associations overwritten by defaults. Not fun for the occasional exception! And just today i got the message similar to "we noticed a problem with the mkv file extension so we are resetting it to windows photo and video viewer" say WHAT? your just gonna do that windows 10 because you "noticed "something""? well fuck you!!!

The bottom line is no one should ever deploy any OS the first year its out. Ive been maintaining pc's since windows 3.11 and it was the exact same with windows 95 and every other os since then. Shit just isn't finished, but with microsofts rapid release and new OS every 6 months model, it seems that windows 10 will never be finished.

if I didnt have a bunch of skylake machines and a bunch of surfaces I would never have even tried to maintain a windows 10 image. It has been an absolute nightmare.

Oh and one last fuck you i can think of, they removed the easy transfer wizard completely now. That really sucks when i have to move peoples profiles around so that they get the exact same state back again like I wasn't even there. Especially troublesome on home users where i cant just reimage and then put their profile back exactly.

C:\ONGRTLNS.W10

[93 Escort Wagon]

Well done.

Any end in sight?

[PingSpike]

The real question is, will it finally be safe to use windows update after the one year deadline has passed on the free herpes infection? My guess is it will be extended indefinitely, "due to its great success and reception!"

Re:Any end in sight?

[The-Ixian]

The Windows registry section of this article works just find to disable GWX.

https://support.microsoft.com/...

Re:Any end in sight?

[Anonymous Coward]

The real question is, will it finally be safe to use windows update after the one year deadline has passed on the free herpes infection? My guess is it will be extended indefinitely, "due to its great success and reception!"

Maybe that is what the "Windows 10 Anniversary Update" is. The free Windows 10 update for everyone who missed the first year deadline.

Many of whom actually *chose* to upgrade

[NotDrWho]

Not most, but some

forced update isn't adoption.

[ihtoit]

whoa, deja vu. That's close to other stuff I've been saying on an entirely different subject...

....Free?

[duke_cheetah2003]

The company also announced that it will be releasing Windows 10 Anniversary Update this summer for all Windows 10 users free of charge.

Why does this statement make me nervous...? It really hints at the possibility that updates will not be free at some point in the future...

Re:....Free?

[Anonymous Coward]

Since they focus so much on install numbers, I wouldn't be surprised if you'll be able to pay for the next update by "convincing a friend running Windows 7 or 8 to upgrade to Windows 10".

Re:....Free?

[thegarbz]

Why does this statement make me nervous...? It really hints at the possibility that updates will not be free at some point in the future...

There's no pleasing some people. First they complain about the cost of Windows, then they complain when it's free and even takes the effort out of upgrading by doing it for you, and now there's complaints about it potentially not being free in the future? I thought you'd be thankful for that prospect.

Re:....Free?

[Anonymous Coward]

People have been buying a copy of Windows, and then sitting on it for years without paying for the next version. Usually because it was good enough and they didn't need to, or because they didn't like or trust something in the next version. With forced paid upgrades that you can't avoid or your computer stops functioning, the normal cycle of user's picking when they will pay for the next version will end.

So if 90 percent are IoT

[WillAffleckUW]

If most of these are Internet of Things, how many AI nazi bots does that make?

VM's

[Anonymous Coward]

So do my 10 or so virtual instances count?

Virtualized is the only half-way safe to run any MSFT software.

widely adopted?

[Anonymous Coward]

by force, deception and, of course, marketing...

When will the corporations begin to actually do what is bets ( ethically speaking, of course)?
When will pigs fly without an airline ticket or plane?
When will the government quit snooping?

About the same time.... when they die.

Awesome

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure every average user should be fiddling with the registry to disable this Virus. How awesome of a company is Microsoft??? Go Bill~!!

Re:Awesome

[Opportunist]

Personally, I found it easier to let someone do it.

Is it safe? Well, considering the alternative... it is at least less likely to infect you with something nasty.

Re:Awesome

[The-Ixian]

reg add HKLM\SOFTWARE\Policies\Microsoft\Windows\WindowsUpdate /v DisableOSUpgrade /t REG_DWORD /d 1 /f

Put it in a file and call it disable_gwx.bat

Double click.

Reboot.

You won't be nagged any more.

Re:Awesome

[gmack]

Not even close to true. There have been many reports of the registry settings magically being reset. I have run into this myself on a machine we use for power point presentations.

Does This Mean?

[Anonymous Coward]

That Microsoft will have access to all my data on Ubuntu (to enhance my user experience)?

Those adopters got tired of the nags

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sure many of those users simple got tired of the nags and succumb to the update. These numbers are skewed to to it's advantage that it has more devices it can run on than say Windows 7 which roughly after one year it ran on 150 million PC's or 46% of the PC's at that time. This in spite of charging $130 for the upgrade and
having less hardware capable of running it. Which makes Windows 10 numbers pretty bad considering its free, its OS is counted on XBox One, Mobile phones, tablets, and PC's. Far more than eligible for Windows 7.

Hmmmm ...

[gstoddart]

The company also announced that it will be releasing Windows 10 Anniversary Update this summer for all Windows 10 users free of charge

I take this to mean the not-necessarily-voluntary year-long beta is almost complete ... now wait for the next gob of shite we're going to force feed you.

See, when they started pushing this, it really wasn't complete. It was mostly complete, and they were still adding features.

Sorry, Microsoft. I didn't trust you with long release cycles. With "Agile" development, I trust you even less.

I'll keep my Windows 8.1 box with your Metro shit and your app store disabled. I'll pass on the telemetry, ads, and other bullshit you've not asked people before you installed it.

Monthly?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, by the title, (who reads the summary or the article?), we can extrapolate that Windows 10 devices are capable of getting on the internet and doing something at least once a month?

Is that supposed to be a record? I ask because I think my refrigerator does that out of the box. If I hadn't thrown it away, I'm pretty sure the box was capable of that.

Windows 7

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually now its safer to run Windows 7 without patches behind a hardware firewall then enabling automated updates any downloading god knows what included in the net patches*

Users that run the new home edition are basically at mercy from microsoft since whatever that company desires would be pushed to home machine effectively making it a perfect home spy at human machine, just think about possibilities that they have now!

Fuck you microsoft, really FUCK YOU

"Fastest adoption"

[Opportunist]

Also in the news, it's easier to have sex if you don't ask but simply rape the other person.

Large botnet

[Anonymous Coward]

When cortana hates you, you pay.

"adoption"

[Anonymous Coward]

never heard it called THAT before.

So what's next?

[wkwilley2]

The company also announced that it will be releasing Windows 10 Anniversary Update this summer for all Windows 10 users free of charge.

So at some point, Windows 10 will no longer be free to use then, what happens if in the future you refuse to pay to upgrade to the latest version on Win 10?

Re:So what's next?

[Anonymous Coward]

Your current version stops working. Same if they go to a subscription model...IE pay every xxx(period of time) to keep your copy of Win10 working. I believe that one of these two payment models will be kicking in soon!

Re:So what's next?

[vandamme]

Yeah, my PC has 5 coin slots on the front. The CF slot takes dollar coins, and the XD slot takes quarters.

Well, I'll be totally Linux when that happens.

New OS, Old problems

[TechyImmigrant]

It may be a shiny new operating system, but it's plagued with the same old problems.

A new Skylake laptop was brought to me with Windows 10 installed. It took the owner less than a day to download some executable which installed malware (mysearchresults) that ferreted its way into many corners of the system and rendered it useless. The system came pre installed with McAffee something or other which failed to recognize the executable as a virus even though it declared that it had scanned it.

I like to think platform security is improving, but it's clear that basic naive user actions are as disastrous as ever.

There Is More Desktop Linux Than This

[Anonymous Coward]

There Is More Desktop Linux Than This

Windows is dead.

Re: Linux isn't any better. Look at systemd.

[Anonymous Coward]

Use someone else's software and you'll get what you're given. The grown ups have decided they want what systemd offers. Your opinion isn't relevant; literally nobody cares what you think about it.

Re:Linux isn't any better. Look at systemd.

[Anonymous Coward]

As shitty as Systemd is, Linux is still significantly better than Windows.

And don't forget...

[Radical Moderate]

...Win 10 followed Win 8, possibly the worst-received OS that MS ever released...yes, I'm including WinME in that. Everybody running 8 was more than ready to move to 10.

Re:And don't forget...

[Darinbob]

There's Windows 8.1. It fixed quite a lot of the problems with 8. Windows 10 offers extremely little beyond 8.1 except for a clone of Stardock's start button (and spyware of course, and downgraded windows update).

Not to defend MS, but....

[Radical Moderate]

...ya can't fix stupid.

Re:Not to defend MS, but....

[vandamme]

Well, you can train them to use Linux instead.

Re:Linux isn't any better. Look at systemd.

[MitchDev]

Linux users CHOOSE to use Linux and CHOOSE which updates to install.

Long-term support is why they've stayed at the top

[Anonymous Brave Guy]

Do you think Microsoft wants to support Windows 7, Windows 8.1, Windows 10, Windows 2008r2 server, Windows 2012, and Windows 2015 for the next 15 years?

No, but I do think they've maintained their position as the dominant desktop OS provider because they gave serious consideration to long-term support and backward compatibility.

No business or other large organisation wants to upgrade platform software every few months or even every couple of years. It's dead time that brings huge disruption, significant costs, and relatively little benefit.

No software developer wants to rewrite their entire product every few months or even every couple of years, for the same reasons.

Even regular, non-geek users seem to be getting tired of the upgrade treadmill as their phones and apps and web sites and social networks keep moving things round all the time.

For decades, Microsoft has been a clear leader in not forcing everyone to do that, and they made a lot of money anyway since it meant they were in the position that "no-one ever got fired for buying Microsoft".

If Microsoft are now going to force this kind of rapid update cycle on everyone, not to mention the questionable privacy and security implications of Windows 10, then they've dropped Windows to the same level as the likes of Linux and OS X. It seems reasonable to expect that the momentum that has kept Windows the dominant OS for so long -- primarily, the software base that runs on it -- will naturally become less of an advantage for them over time in that case, and perhaps little advantage at all after a few years.

The stock price chart for MSFT over the past few years is quite interesting. They had a pattern of sustained growth through 2013-2014, but then since the reality of Windows 10 took hold in 2015 it's quite a different story, with less growth overall and much more volatility. I suspect if they don't take the hint and back off on some of the aggressive posturing within the next few months, people are going to start making more money shorting Microsoft stock than investing in it as a good long-term prospect.

Voluntarily Run?

[Anonymous Coward]

Voluntarily run like many German women voluntarily had Russian-fathered babies at the end of WWII.

Funny

[Anonymous Coward]

Thats funny because i only start up my Win10 VM once a month

Windows botnet now quarter billion strong

[Anonymous Coward]

Windows botnet now quarter billion strong.

Re:Linux isn't any better. Look at systemd.

[Anonymous Coward]

good god give it up already, man. get a hobby or something. i'm serious. build a model airplane or find a good fishing hole. there are things that are way more worthwhile and rewarding in life than posting that copypasta all over the place.

just install gentoo or slackware. if it weren't for all the whinging morons like you i probably wouldn't even be aware systemd had gone mainstream just like i wasn't aware of how prevalent pulseaudio was until all this shit.

i mean, ffs, linux is doing great. i have several init managers to choose from. i have tons of desktop environments to choose from. i have lots of command interpreters to choose from. i even have two bootloaders to choose from not to mention UEFI boot if i ever get around to enabling that. pretty soon i'll be able to even choose whether i want to stay on X11 or go to wayland. that's not even to mention all the kernel patches that are out there if i really want to tweak shit.

disclaimer: i deeply suspect that systemd is a move on redhat's part to sell enterprise support, but that's just me being cynical.

Whistling in the dark.

[westlake]

It's a sham, it's a joke, it's a complete fabrication, it's utter bullshit, and it means NOTHING.

It means plenty when you look at the adoption rates for OSX and Linux as a client OS.

Valve is as big and Linux-friendly a presence in the PC gaming market as you will find on the planet. But 96% of Steam gamers run Windows. 34% have upgraded to 64 bit Windows 10. Only 1% run any flavor of Linux. 0.4% Ubuntu. 0.1% Mint. Steam Hardware & Software Survey: February 2016

Re:Whistling in the dark.

[Darinbob]

Steam on Linux is sort of pointless because it won't run the games people want. Steam works on Windows because the vast majority of games works on Windows, if I move to Linux I'll probably only have 2 games that work. The move of Steam onto Linux is good news for people buying new games but it doesn't help out anyone who wants to keep their existing collection working.

People aren't choosing Windows because they think it's the better option, they're choosing Windows because of vendor lock in. At work where we're mostly OSX based development we get told very often that we should just buy a second computer for those few times when the only tools only exist on Windows, we're told to stop bothering to think for ourselves and use Visual Studio like everyone else and dump the linux based automated test and build tools, just be a clone of everyone else (never mind the huge effort it takes to untrain a PC developer from their lifetime of bad habits). Vendors tell us that we're being too picky by choosing a competitor that supports Linux or OSX. There is so much pressure from all sides to conform to big brother.

And

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple still sucks the big one.

Re:Linux isn't any better. Look at systemd.

[Immerman]

It's only hypocritical if you're also implying that Linux is considerably better. You can be perfectly consistent and point out that ALL OS distributors doing such things suck, or even ignoring the competition entirely because you just don't care about anything except Windows. "This Microsoft maneuver sucks" in no way implies that anybody else is better, any more than "this politician is corrupt" implies that any of their peers are honest.

That said, I've heard of comparatively few recent problems with clean installs of systemd based distros. And I'm not at all surprised that trying to shoehorn it into an in-place upgrade causes problems for so many people. System and infrastructure initialization has always been a bit finicky on Linux, trying to replace it on a live system brings to mind completely replacing the foundation of a house while you're living in it - no matter how good the new foundation, you're likely to have issues.

Then there's the fact that systemd is still rather immature - the old startup and infrastructure modules took HOW many years of tinkering to get as stable as they are? So there's bound to be corner cases not yet properly handled by SD. Still, I can understand the motivation to adopt it - maintaining and updating that web of crusty old support structure is a huge draw on precious manpower, by switching to SD they essentially outsource most of that work to a centralized project where the workload and benefits can be shared by all. Yes, it would absolutely be nicer for us users if they had waited until systemd were fully mature to make the switch - but it's like buying an X.0 version of any program. or a new version of Windows in the first couple of years: it's going to have issues that can only be found and fixed with the benefit of widespread adoption and testing. Sucks for users who get stuck as "beta testers" during the maturation pains, but almost everyone benefits in the long run. And there's a chicken and egg problem as well: if the big distros wait too long to adopt it they risk it losing steam, and then they'll be stuck maintaining the old, crusty, increasingly overtaxed labyrinths themselves indefinitely. Could someone have made a better alternative to systemd? Absolutely! But the key point is that nobody did. Or at least nobody else succeeded in building enough momentum to become a credible option.

Well, there's my troll-chow ration for the month all used up. Good thing it's almost April.

Re:Linux isn't any better. Look at systemd.

[Darinbob]

This post should not have been moderated as Troll. These are opinions with validity, whether or not the reader agrees. The moderation of Troll should only be used when someone is actually trying to start flame wars.

In related news...

[Anonymous Coward]

Influenza now runs on 790 million infected human hosts.

"Fastest adoption?"

[Anonymous Coward]

"Windows 10 is off to the fastest adoption of any release ever,"

Well, no shit. You've been shoving it down people's throats without their consent.

who cares?

[Anonymous Coward]

go finger yourself microsoft

Re:Linux isn't any better. Look at systemd.

[Anonymous Coward]

The moderation of Troll should only be used when someone is actually trying to start flame wars.

I thought that was Flamebait ...

Monthly active devices?

[gzuckier]

Is that a euphemism for female parts?