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VR Tested by NFL To Confront Sexism and Racism (usatoday.com)

More than $8 billion a year is spent on diversity training which a Harvard professor believes is largely ineffective. So later this year the NFL will also try using new VR scenarios from Stanford's Virtual Human Interaction Lab. "We want to be known as the best place to work," says NFL vice president Troy Vincent," while Dropbox's head of diversity says she's also had conversations about eliminating bias in job interviews by conducting "blind" interviews using avatars. The Stanford lab's scenarios place users in unsettling situations -- for example, angry harassment by white avatars while the user's avatar is black. "I'm not saying, 'Put on a VR goggle and you've solved racism'," says the Stanford lab's director. "But I'm optimistic it can help."

34 of 178 comments (clear)

  1. tl;dr by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Funny

    "I'm not saying, 'Find a topic that's fashionable if you want a lot of grant money'," says the Stanford lab's director. "But I'm optimistic it can help."

    1. Re:tl;dr by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      I'm surprised it hasn't been done before. VR has been used to help with PTSD for years now. Before headsets, when it was just FPV on a screen.

      Helping to put yourself in the shoes of others seems like a good way to increase understanding. I just hope it's done well, otherwise people will react angrily.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    2. Re:tl;dr by alvinrod · · Score: 2

      Sounds like the tunnel of prejudice.

    3. Re:tl;dr by alvinrod · · Score: 2

      But the extent to which we commonly identify with video game characters is fairly dramatic. There's probably still people crying over Aeris.

      While games, movies, or just art in general can certainly affect people strongly, I would almost think that people like that probably have some kind of emotional disorder that they need to work through as well. It's one thing to lack empathy to the degree that they turn into evil shits, but still being emotionally torn up over something that's not real doesn't sound emotionally healthy either. There was a lot of worry (perhaps overreaction) years ago over people getting sucked into online games and becoming detached from the people around (was back in the heyday of World of Warcraft) to the point that it became detrimental to their actual lives. I suspect that we might see this come back when VR starts to make a big push.

    4. Re:tl;dr by religionofpeas · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Of course, some people are just not ever going to get the message. Not everyone has empathy, even when beaten with it.

      It's not just about empty or "getting the message". Where I live, people generally don't want to hire Moroccans, but would be happy to hire a Korean. And it has nothing to do with skin color, but everything with past experiences with Moroccans. They generally show up late, use sick leave as vacation, have little respect for customers or superiors, have poorer education and sometimes even steal stuff from the company. Of course, these are generalizations, but they don't come from a vacuum, they are based on day to day experiences. On the other hand, in the Moroccans stores, you don't find any non-Moroccans working there, and very rarely do you see a woman.

    5. Re:tl;dr by KGIII · · Score: 2

      You should get an interview and wear one of these. When they make you play the part of a woman, you should play it like it's a martial arts video game and just start attacking the first person you see like you would a mortal combat character. Well, assuming they're virtual people and not real life people. If they're real life people you'll definitely not get the job. You could be Chun Lee from Street Fighter II. I bet they won't have programmed in a response for that. It will also be funnier than hell. If it's real people then you should just make the moves and every now and again step back and make the noise and pretend you're throwing a fireball. We just need to sneak in some hidden cameras. This is even better if you're a balding, pasty white, fat man.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    6. Re:tl;dr by silentcoder · · Score: 2

      You can't actually experience things from other people's point of view in reality.

      There is an ability called empathy that lets you get get close, but it only works if you have at least some overlapping experience to build on and a sense of relating to the people involved. This can be built (over many years) through conversation and observation, but very few people have either the desire or the willingness to engage in that.

      If this is a short-cut to effective empathy - then it will have good and positive outcomes, if it doesn't work - well neither does the current method of choice so it's not like we actually *lost* anything.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
  2. Meet the new boss, same as the old boss by ITRambo · · Score: 2

    The NFL is using new tech to do the same training that they've always tried, which fails. Making it better looking isn't going to alter the personality of an individual trained to be on-alert and aggressive to order to win. Good luck with your new PR stunt.

    1. Re:Meet the new boss, same as the old boss by alvinrod · · Score: 2

      They, like many others, have figured out that you don't actually have to fix anything as long as you just appear to be doing something even if that something isn't likely to work or has been shown not to work having been tried dozens of times before. It's why we still have politicians that promise to be "tough on crime" or who want to continue the failed policy that is the war on drugs.

    2. Re:Meet the new boss, same as the old boss by alvinrod · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I think that the problem isn't that people are trying to do something to fix the issue, it's that what they're trying to do is ineffective or counter-productive (PDF warning). Alternatively here's an article that reports on the main findings of that study or incorporates data from a few others if you don't want to read ~30 pages of journal article yourself.

      Basically the people who constantly push these programs don't tend to follow the science to find the most effective ways to go about doing it so they just end up failing, wasting time and money, and alienating the people they're trying to connect with and it seems like with many they refuse to try to do anything different. It's just another case of trying to be tough on crime or ratchet up the drug laws even more because it's about appearing to do something or people simply feeding their own egotistical desire to feel like they're changing the world rather than doing something that's actually good.

  3. Sexism and Racism by craigminah · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Calling an opponent a sexist or a racist are sure fire ways to ostracize them and shut them up. Ironic the left is so opposed to bullying then bullies people it disagrees with and calls them names. We're not all the same but deserve the same opportunities, nothing more, nothing less. Stop with the name-calling.

    1. Re:Sexism and Racism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      It's not inaccurate. In today's politics, you're very likely to be called a racist or bigot by people on the Left if you disagree with their solutions to problems. Saying you don't believe in affirmative actions, for instance, can get you called a racist. How is being against one possible solution mean you hate black people? Heck, just by saying I'm a Republican, I'm automatically called a racist by many. The word "racist" is being thrown around so much now, that it has lost most of it's meaning.

      If you want to talk about history and disadvantage, most every race, ethnic background, religion, etc has been discriminated at one time or another in history. It's how each of those groups fought their way out of it that has differed. Playing the victim card does not work.

    2. Re:Sexism and Racism by khallow · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Singling out "the left" is inaccurate.

      Ok, who else calls opponents sexist or racist? Or uses that behavior as a means of ostracism? I just don't see the inaccuracy myself.

      The problems of the real world exist and are caused by history and economics which position classes at a disadvantage.

      The reason people die at 70 years of age instead of 1,000 is not because they were in the wrong class of people or economically disadvantaged. Sure, some of our biggest problems, particularly poverty and overpopulation, can be not too inaccurated viewed through the lens of class warfare, but a lot of other problems can't.

      Adjusting to eliminate that disadvantage requires changing biases in how individuals are judged for job placements and promotions.

      Changing biases to what? What I see here is replacing one set of biases with another (and the latter set may be more biased and more of a problem than the former).

    3. Re:Sexism and Racism by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Calling an opponent a sexist or a racist are sure fire ways to ostracize them and shut them up. Ironic the left is so opposed to bullying then bullies people it disagrees with and calls them names. We're not all the same but deserve the same opportunities, nothing more, nothing less. Stop with the name-calling.

      As a clear example of the OP's point, one need only look to how the media covers the Trump campaign.

      Trump notes that a portion (a subset) of illegal (intersect another subset) immigrants (intersect yet another subset) as rapists and murderers, and this is somehow interpreted to mean that he's a racist.

      He fails to remember who David Duke is (temporarily, I might add), and suddenly he's a KKK member.

      He insults a man and a woman in one breath, and since one of them was a woman, he's suddenly got a "war on women".

      He insults individuals he doesn't like. The women insults are selected, distilled, and made into a campaign ad.

      A quick google of "Donald Trump's war on *" shows he has a:
      . war on women
      . war on Megyn Kelley
      . war on the media
      . war on Chivalry (wtf?)
      . war on people with disabilities
      . war on comedy (wtf?)
      . war on Muslims
      . war on anchor babies

      And these are only the first 2 pages! The list is endless!

      Googling "Donald Trump is *" shows that he is:
      . Satan
      . Hitler
      . crazier than April Fools' Day
      . the most dangerous man in the world
      . the next Barack Obama (wtf?)
      . Stalin
      . Mussolini

      ...the list goes on.

      All this completely ridiculous rhetoric, people are falling over themselves to paint Trump in the most possible bad way.

      (After writing that last line, I had a thought and... yep, Cthulhu supports Donald Trump. And this came from the Washington Post! WTF?)

      And the worst part of all is this: I don't have the first idea how well Trumps position stacks up against those of Cruz, Clinton, or Sanders.

      In fact, I don't know even *what* the other candidates even stand for.

      Trump: We'll bomb the shit out of ISIS and torture their families

      Clinton: "Today’s attacks will only strengthen our resolve to stand together as allies and defeat terrorism and radical jihadism around the world"

      What will Clinton do if elected? I haven't the first idea. ...all I know is that she doesn't have a war on women.

    4. Re:Sexism and Racism by khallow · · Score: 2

      We're not all the same but deserve the same opportunities, nothing more, nothing less.

      You do realize that that is an extremely strong statement?

      No, I don't. And you don't either. It's quite clear that the original poster didn't advocate making everyone equally competent in all endeavors. Opportunity doesn't mean competence, training, ability, etc.

    5. Re: Sexism and Racism by cyber-vandal · · Score: 2

      I'm on the left but I find it deeply offensive that I as a white heterosexual male am considered guilty of other people's crimes. When certain loud obnoxious people stop doing that and even worse dismissing men's problems as irrelevant we'll all get along a lot better.

    6. Re: Sexism and Racism by cyber-vandal · · Score: 3, Informative

      This is a good example. I am not to blame for rapists. Rapists are to blame for rapists. I have no influence over the behaviour of people I don't know. I am not some asshole frat boy or rape apologist and I have zero influence over those who are. Those are the kind of people who used to bully me at school and equating me with them is incredibly insulting.

      Here's another one. I'm not a murderer or a rapist. I don't harass women on the internet. I have no interest in Gamergate. But because I share the same genitalia with bad people it's my fault too.

      Dismissal of male suicide. A small amount of men are rich and powerful so those of us who aren't and that suffer from mental illnesses don't deserve any sympathy. Four times as many men as women kill themselves every year but meh it's their fault for not embracing feminism and not a lot more complicated than that.

      More white men have all the power. No I don't. I'm not even a manager, never mind a CEO.

      There's plenty more bollocks like this about and this isn't the rantings of Twitter trolls but mainstream media journalists.

      If your plan is to rebut me by trotting out some shit from the Daily Mail, then I'm not interested. Just because they're a bunch of tossers doesn't mean Jessica Valenti et al get a free pass to be sexist and racist towards people that have done nothing wrong and actually would rather be supporters and an allies. Telling us that our problems are irrelevant and that everything that's wrong in the world is our fault is a good way to get us to stick two fingers up and walk away.

    7. Re:Sexism and Racism by Rockoon · · Score: 2

      Opportunity doesn't mean competence, training, ability, etc.

      It does in the world of democrats. Thats why he went there in spite of all the obvious reasons why he shouldn't.

      --
      "His name was James Damore."
    8. Re: Sexism and Racism by KGIII · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I'm part black and I'm comfortable saying that black people should stop being thugs and glorifying the gang culture. I believe I'm being honest when I say why it has some appeal and why they might do so. That is not an excuse. The white kids shouldn't be emulating it and doing the same damned things. And, seeing as I'm asking for wishes, can I get some equality in the halls of justice?

      But yeah, those black people should stop being thugs and seeing that as a role model to look up to. There are many problems in the black community that come from within the community. One can have that discussion without being a racist. In fact, if people would stop decrying anyone who brings it up as a racist, then maybe you could have that conversation. But that'd require rational thinking and cooler heads.

      "You shits be trippin' yo. Punk ass cracker, fliping his shit. Feel me? Bitch. flapin' and flopin' and stroke right out there on the floo'. You feel me? Down there doing the fish and shit. Nigger be trippin, hear me? What, you shook son? You ain't scaret now are you? Shit nigga..."

      Translated from a South Eastern United States, Gulf-Region Ebonics, that translates to: You two dumb-asses are going to have a stroke because you spend all your time finding shit to be irate about. The both of you will find offense, even if you have to manufacture it. You'll see slight where none is intended and you'll and the best part about it is that if you stopped and listened to each other then you'd probably find out you have a lot of the same concerns and far more pressing matters.

      I'd even speculate that it's beneficial to some (though it might not be intended but would be a great side affect) to keep the masses scrabbling at each other instead of trying to claw their way upwards.

      Oh, that's actually about what I think a few of my relatives would say. It's just how they talk. I don't really like it either. They're actually not felons or anything. They're pretty normal people. The best part about it is the two that I'm specifically thinking of - that talk about like that, are really from Nova Scotia. And yeah, they do speak a different language than you do. There's actually lots of dialects of American English. Some of them are even officially recognized by fancy talking linguists. That actually might be fairly accurate. I've been down in the Florida panhandle since December. I've had a little practice - to the bemusement of the missus.

      At any rate, yeah. I'm part black and am pretty happy saying the thugs that were acting out were being thugs and acting out of line. They're a discredit to their species but they're certainly not alone in that and not that because of the color of their skin. They're that way because they choose to be. That's what makes it even worse.

      --
      "So long and thanks for all the fish."
    9. Re:Sexism and Racism by khallow · · Score: 2

      The right just tends to avoid the actual words, and phrase it like the following few options (strangely not realising that by doing so they are outing themselves as racists and sexists):

      We call these things straw men arguments. And I can't help but notice that your examples do not actually support your claim.

      It is a contributing factor, as repeated societal research keep showing again and again and again. I'm not even going to try to list examples, as a simple Google search on "impact poverty health" will yield you tons of references, which will show you that people in poor classes also have trouble escaping their position. Special programs do help there.

      Which is a dumb argument. Your stupidity is a contributing factor to the world's problems (after all, if you were vastly smarter than the smartest humans, you could develop technology to solve or mitigate most of these problems) yet I don't blame your stupidity for the world's problems.

      Tactic used: Reframe the discussion by contrasting the "unacceptable" position shown by a possibly-left-oriented-individual with the danger of potentially horrible changes that such a position would cause to the living standard of the well-off majority group*, to induce a feeling of "me too" in people who are insecure with regards to their societal position (i.e. "class") and will protect that position in any way possible from perceived threats.

      I think we see the "potentially horrible danger" right here. You went through the effort of writing that without considering whether your purely imaginary characterization was correct. Further, it demonstrates a considerable effort to memorize a nomenclature and belief system that is rather useless to us.

      And it leads us to a poisonous third conclusion, why shouldn't I do this alleged behavior? According to your premises, I'm a member of the well-off majority group and want to keep my relatively insecure social position, why not go with what you imply here works? The minority groups that are adversely affected are not me.

      * That will soon be Latinos in the US, right?

      Most who fall in the category of "white" let us note. There used to be a variety of European Americans too. The majority category is still the majority category for what it's worth.

  4. Simple equation. by sbaker · · Score: 2

    VR Researcher: We need money to carry on making pretty 3D environments.
    Other VR Researcher: If only we could find a big organization with lots of money.
    All together: THE NFL!! Yeaaaahhhh!

    Judge: You evil NFL guys are racist.
    NFL: No we're not, we're spending a ton of money to combat racism using cutting edge VR technology.
    Judge: Oh - OK then. Carry on.

    Nobody actually knows whether this approach will work in actually combating racism - but nobody involved cares about that part.

    IMHO, putting on VR goggles and seeing the person you're interacting with in 3D graphics is no better than seeing it on a 2D screen - and decidedly inferior to doing role-play with an actor. Which do you think is cheaper? VR research or a bunch of unemployed actors?

    --
    www.sjbaker.org
  5. The first step for combating racism.. by Z80a · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Is not being racist yourself, which you are if you support the so called "social justice", given the fact the thing basically make you segregate the general population by gender, race and sexuality, instead of taking care of actual individual problems like poverty, lack of education and oppression by governments and big corporations etc..
    There is no such thing as "positive racism".

    1. Re:The first step for combating racism.. by Z80a · · Score: 2

      And racism against "oppressed groups" is not racism anymore if you use politically correct words and pretend to help em somehow.

  6. head of diversity? by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 3, Insightful

    if you are seeking to have diversity occur then you are actively discriminating based on a prejudice which results in racism, sexism, ageism, etc. everyone needs to stop this "diversity" bullshit and hire people based on their qualifications.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  7. No Fucking Way by zenlessyank · · Score: 2

    does anyone spend over 8 billion dollars on diversity training. Let me see the bills. Someone is lying through their fucking teeth. And if they DID spend that much then whoever authorized it is a scam artist. Someone in charge of finances and laws need to investigate this group.

    1. Re:No Fucking Way by ooloorie · · Score: 2

      does anyone spend over 8 billion dollars on diversity training

      You do if you're government subsidized and need to make your political masters happy:

      http://money.cnn.com/2015/01/3...

  8. World Peace and the walled garden of eden by goombah99 · · Score: 2

    If VR can cure anything as ingrained as Sexsim then why settle for that. We need mandatory worldwide mind programming to instill world peace. Facebook can do this for us using a combination of their Oculus and their walled internet garden of eden, while turning a profit on subliminal advertisements.

    --
    Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
  9. Probably isn't going to work. by martinux · · Score: 2

    A researcher has previously investigated controller-avatar interactions, specifically, if the player (this is video-games related) identifies with their avatar:

    "Players do not automatically take on the role of characters/avatars. Playing as a character that is ostensibly “other” to you (in terms of gender, race, or sexuality) is not necessarily transgressive or perspective-altering. Playing as a character that is like you (in terms of demographic categories) does not necessarily engender identification."
    "This calls into question both the educative benefits and the marketing benefits of playing as a main video game character that is a member of a marginalized group."

    Limitations: Note that the sample for this paper did not involve what the researcher describes as "White male gamer", the researcher draws conclusions from a small sample. Also note that the paper does not seem to be peer reviewed.

    Source: http://www.digra.org/wp-conten...

    It's not *proof* of anything but it may suggest that VR interactions, like games, do not guarantee any identification between the subject and their avatar. In fact, it may be counter-productive; those who are asked to take part in the intervention/training may ask why it is that they're assumed to be racist.

  10. Walking in NYC by ooloorie · · Score: 2

    You can already experience 10 Hours of Walking in NYC as a Man ("Hey, Harvard, wanna network?"), Walking in NYC as a Homosexual! ("Pants a little too tight homie"), 10 HRS Walking While Black in NYC ("Call me Cruella, I like my black on white."), and 10 Hours of Walking in NYC as a Puppy ("Come back to my house, I got some good meat for you."). FYI, the puppy experienced by far the most numerous and most vile forms of verbal harassment, plus "numerous winks, unsolicited tummy rubs, and non-consensual tug-of-war games."

  11. Uh, seriously? by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

    My company is having sensitivity training this week. As I told my manager, I haven't taken a sensitivity class in the 1990's.

  12. Re:Programming by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 2

    I was programmed to be a sensitive guy 25 years ago when I worked in retail. As a IT technician for 20+ years who consoles hurt computers and fixes broken users, I don't need any more sensitivity programming.

  13. Social Justice by onyxruby · · Score: 2

    The concept of approving the right mixture of racism, sexism and bigotry to gain moral superiority.

  14. Textbook example by Okian+Warrior · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Trump says thing that are textbook misogyny and racism. It's as if he is literally getting them form a textbook somewhere, in order to build up his anti-establishment anti-political-correctness platform.

    Textbook racism is saying that some race is inferior. It's saying that Blacks have to use separate drinking fountains, have to ride the back of the bus, and can't join the country club.

    Textbook mysogyny is saying that women are inferior to men. It's saying they shouldn't go to college, shouldn't vote, and should be kept barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen.

    Trump has made no such pronouncements, doesn't align with *any* of the textbook norms, and his lifes history shows the exact *opposite* of the textbook examples.

    In other words, he's normal.

    But you are a clear example of what masquerades as political discourse. You are writing as knowledgeable about racism and mysogyny, knowing that people won't think critically about what you write.

    People are trained from birth to take in information without regard to accuracy, and you are abusing that weakness to your own ends.

    You are a textbook example of a shill: You're trying to fool people to promote your hidden agenda.

  15. Re: Which shows how its like racism... by Bartles · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Kind of like how people assume anyone who is black is poor, helpless, and too lacking in education and intelligence to even figure out how to get an ID to vote.