HP Announces All-Metal Chromebook 13: Thinner Than MacBook Pro, Costs $800 Less

On Thursday, HP unveiled a new Chromebook 13. Designed in collaboration with Google, the Chromebook 13 sports an all-metal body and is merely 13mm thick while weighing 1.29kg. It sports a 13-inch display with 3200x1800 pixels resolution and is powered by Intel's sixth-gen Core M processor, which comes coupled with up to 16GB of RAM. There's a USB Type-C port as well, and the company is also promising up to 11.5 hours of battery life on a single charge. The retail price of the HP Chromebook starts at $499, and will launch in the US later this month.

Comments

Apples and Persimmons

[wkwilley2]

It ought to cost 800 dollar less, it's a Chromebook.

And an HP.

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[drinkypoo]

They ought to give it to me for free for being willing to even consider carrying something with an HP logo on it around in public. If it doesn't completely suck, I might be willing to say so. So far, everything I've had from HP since the Kayaks has been hot garbage, and their support has been as well. The support experience is actually the primary reason I won't even consider anything from HP. Never again.

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[Hognoxious]

Might not be so bad if it has the new logo - you can't tell what it says.

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[TechyImmigrant]

It says bp. It's the British Petroleum laptop.

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[AmiMoJo]

It looks pretty good for the money. You can of course run other operating systems on it. Linux, certainly, maybe even Windows. As a Linux machine it's pretty cheap for the spec.

If anything it seems way over-speced for a Chromebook. Since Android is Linux based it should be well supported for people wanting to run Linux.

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[Anonymous Coward]

If there's one thing Slashdotters can count on, it's getting their recommended daily requirement of piss and vinegar from drinkypoo. Tell us, drinkypoo, is there anything you actually like? That you don't piss and moan and bitch about? I don't think there is. Are you drunk all day long or something, and a mean drunk to boot? Have you considered killing yourself? It would end the misery. For us, that is. Maybe the U.S. military should plant you on the nose of a missile and aim you at ISIS headquarters, you'd make them want to cut off their own heads just to not have to deal with you anymore. Please pour your Boilermakers, or Night Train, or Old English 800, or whatever swill you drink, right onto your motherboard so we don't have to listen to you anymore, OK?

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[Solandri]

And an HP.

The dirty little secret of the laptop industry is that the big-name laptop brands - Dell, HP, Apple, Toshiba, etc. - do not actually make laptops. They're made by Taiwanese companies called ODMs - Original Design Manufacturers. They're like OEMs, except they also design the product. The brand name just slaps it in one of their boxes before re-shipping it to you. About the only thing the brand name tells you is what type of warranty service to expect. The entire industry is very secretive about this, and makes it nearly impossible to tell which ODM actually made each particular model laptop (most brands use multiple ODMs).

The Macbooks are made by Quanta (they're the only ODM Apple is currently using for their laptops; the old plastic Macbooks were made by Asus/Pegatron). Quanta also happens to make most of HP's laptops. This is why all those "laptop reliability reports" which break it down by brand name are bunk.

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[drinkypoo]

Early Gateways were worse than hot garbage, they were canned crap. But in more recent years they were just made out of commodity parts and they were often actually quite good machines. Same for e-Machines. Acer is a bit of a mixed bag, but in general I've been more happy with them than not. I have a Lenovo C2D right here which is a peach. I'm kind of over Lenovo, though, since they have developed a penchant for BIOS which tries to stop you from doing what you want. So yeah, I agree, most PCs are crap now. Hooray for the a la carte market.

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[tlhIngan]

It looks pretty good for the money. You can of course run other operating systems on it. Linux, certainly, maybe even Windows. As a Linux machine it's pretty cheap for the spec.

Actually... no. The default Chromebook loader can only boot Linux. There is no BIOS unless the boot firmware includes one (e.g., the Chromebook Pixel included SeaBIOS). This is required if you want to boot... Windows.

Even then, it's a nasty hack - while you can do it, only geeks will be satisfied with the result. Basically, every time you boot it up (including reboots), its going to wait 30 seconds while it says the system is insecure. After 30 seconds, it'll display a screen asking for a recovery USB or SD card. So in those 30 seconds you need to hit a key combo to proceed to boot (Ctrl-D or something).

This will be fine for most /. users, but as a "cheap laptop" solution for the general public... not so much. Needing to hit the key command within a certain period of time is probably going to be the biggest sticking point.

By default, ChromeOS is designed to be locked down so people can use it to browse the web in safety without worrying that something is doing to install something that will destroy their computer, or spy on them, etc. They make great machines to do internet banking with as you can be reasonably assured they have no malware or other thing spying on you. But that also makes life difficult if you want to use it in unsecured open mode.

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[Shoten]

Meh, not had your experience. HP's hardware is cheap, but my PC, my wife's PC, and wife's laptop (all HP) have turned out to be huge improvements on their various predecessors from Gateway, Acer, Lenovo, et al.

I just wish virtually all manufacturers, with the possible exception of Apple, who existed 20 years ago and had a reputation then for quality, weren't so much worse today (that's not a compliment aimed at Apple BTW, their hardware 15 years ago was pretty awful.)

Wow...there's a marketing slogan for you:

"Better than an old Gateway."

Yeah, you'll raise the roof with that one!

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[macs4all]

It ought to cost 800 dollar less, it's a Chromebook.

And an HP.

Exactly!

And why compare it to a MBP? That should be compared to a MacBook Air, or maybe the new MacBook (non-Pro).

And as the Parent pointed out, IT'S A CHROMEBOOK. It shouldn't be compared to a REAL laptop AT ALL.

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[Shoten]

And an HP.

The dirty little secret of the laptop industry is that the big-name laptop brands - Dell, HP, Apple, Toshiba, etc. - do not actually make laptops. They're made by Taiwanese companies called ODMs - Original Design Manufacturers. They're like OEMs, except they also design the product. The brand name just slaps it in one of their boxes before re-shipping it to you. About the only thing the brand name tells you is what type of warranty service to expect. The entire industry is very secretive about this, and makes it nearly impossible to tell which ODM actually made each particular model laptop (most brands use multiple ODMs).

The Macbooks are made by Quanta (they're the only ODM Apple is currently using for their laptops; the old plastic Macbooks were made by Asus/Pegatron). Quanta also happens to make most of HP's laptops. This is why all those "laptop reliability reports" which break it down by brand name are bunk.

True...and not true.

The implication of your post is that an HP is not really an HP, but something entirely designed, sourced, and built by another company but with HP's name on it. This is not the case. HP buys components from other companies, and other companies often do the manufacturing...but the design of the laptop, its specifications, and essentially everything that determines how good it is are entirely HP's doing. The same is (clearly) true of Apple. The fact that the manufacturing is outsourced isn't really germane; you'll never have an Apple and HP computer that, side-by-side, are entirely interchangeable.

Disclaimer: I used to work for HP. Please don't hold it against me...

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[macs4all]

The Macbooks are made by Quanta (they're the only ODM Apple is currently using for their laptops; the old plastic Macbooks were made by Asus/Pegatron).

Sorry, no.

No doubt that Quanta does lots of ODM work for those generic Wintel laptops; but Apple laptops are designed by Apple, period; have been for years.

Quanta is simply a Contract MANUFACTURER used by Apple to BUILD MacBooks. Has been for years.

Same thing for Asus/Pegatron. Contract MANUFACTURER Only.

You apparently don't understand the difference between DESIGN and MANUFACTURING. I can find NO reference to Apple using either of those companies for anything other than Contract MANUFACTURING, not DESIGN work.

Prove me wrong.

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[wkwilley2]

I agree with you completely on the support issue.

Trying to get any kind of support from HP is akin to pulling alligator teeth.

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[binarylarry]

Yep, stopped reading at HP.

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[mukinrestak]

I once tried to get an under warranty HP laptop repaired. HP support refused to honor the warranty until I contacted the folks at The Consumerist and threatened media exposure. I've had better interactions with the freakin IRS.

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[Anonymous Coward]

And as the Parent pointed out, IT'S A CHROMEBOOK. It shouldn't be compared to a REAL laptop AT ALL.

Except we can make some useful comparisons, enough to know that the Macbook is ridiculously overpriced.

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[Captain Splendid]

Why the fuck are you people buying your PCs off the shelf? Aren't we supposed to build our own rigs?

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[macs4all]

And as the Parent pointed out, IT'S A CHROMEBOOK. It shouldn't be compared to a REAL laptop AT ALL.

Except we can make some useful comparisons, enough to know that the Macbook is ridiculously overpriced.

See "Chromebook".

Fancy terminal, who's main purpose in life is to serve as a(nother) data-mining tool for Google. Locked to a wanna-be OS (unless you are willing to put up with massive annoyance every-single-boot). As I said: NOT a general-purpose computer; therefore, no "comparisons", especially to a MacBook PRO, are warranted nor relevant nor "useful", except as pure Clickbait, and that is true ONLY because the Article mentions Apple.

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[Hognoxious]

That'd be almost funny if British Petroleum had existed in the last decade.

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[drinkypoo]

Why the fuck are you people buying your PCs off the shelf? Aren't we supposed to build our own rigs?

I bought my SFF lenovo for $50 with a 1TB disk and 4GB RAM. I couldn't buy the RAM for that, new. My other PCs are AMD multicore systems which were built from scratch, I even spray-painted one case to match the other which is fairly nerdly if I do say so myself. Relax.

There are a lot of prebuilt machines floating around out there for little money, and sometimes their prices are compelling at yard sales and the like.

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[harrkev]

I can walk into a MicroCenter and walk out with pieces and parts to assemble a desktop machine. Laptop? Not so much.

Yes, I know of a FEW companies out there doing something like that, but nothing that you will ever see on a store shelf.

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[Captain Splendid]

for $50

Oh alright then, carry on.

*salutes*

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[TechyImmigrant]

That'd be almost funny if British Petroleum had existed in the last decade.

http://www.bp.com/

They may choose to hide the origin of their name, but that's what the B and P stand for.

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[jon3k]

Everyone makes this claim that Macbook's are ridiculously overpriced, but no one can find me a laptop with comparable specs and premium build quality (ie not made of plastic) that isn't essentially the same price as a Macbook. And even if you can find something that's maybe $100 cheaper, it will have a dramatically lower battery life and a horrible trackpad.

Re: Apples and Persimmons

[Bing Tsher E]

When I want to build something, it requires at a minimum a soldering iron and probably a drill press and band saw. Please don't cop an attitude because you can assemble a computer if the only tool needed was a Phillips screwdriver. My friend whose paying job involves building and tearing down cubicle walls can 'build a computer' at that level.

Re: Apples and Persimmons

[Bing Tsher E]

It only has the good, Google approved spyware on it. They've copied Apple's iOS in that regard.

The garden walls keeps those pesky raccoons from stealing your picnic lunch.

Re: Apples and Persimmons

[Bing Tsher E]

They are Designed in California by Apple.

Yada yada. Whooie.

And they have nicer retail displays, just like Bose sound equipment.

Re: Apples and Persimmons

[Bing Tsher E]

Also, when an Apple laptop goes to shit, you get to talk to a genius.

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[nmr_andrew]

It looks pretty good for the money.

Maybe. But while it will probably get me labeled a blasphemer and heretic on /., I just RTFA (ok, skimmed really). The very next paragraphs starts out by saying the "base model" - i.e. the one with the $500 price tag - will very likely have lower specs, they specifically mention 1920x1080, 4 GB or 8 GB RAM, and probably a lesser CPU. It also mentions that this thing has a whopping 32 GB of storage, presumably flash memory, nor any way to add any other than USB-C.

Re: Apples and Persimmons

[macs4all]

They are Designed in California by Apple.

Yada yada. Whooie.

But what I find suspiciously absent is the PROOF they are NOT.

And they have nicer retail displays, just like Bose sound equipment.

They also have (much) nicer industrial design and manufacturing, at the very least. I'm not sure what you mean by "nicer retail displays", though. Are you referring to the Apple Retail Stores? If so, I don't get the comparison to Bose, who, to my knowledge, doesn't have any Retail Stores of their own.

And there is a VAST difference between Bose's quality and Apple's. I know. I have worked on enough Bose equipment, as well as some Apple equipment, to have an informed opinion on the matter.

Re: Apples and Persimmons

[Captain Splendid]

Please don't cop an attitude

You must be new here.

My friend whose paying job involves building and tearing down cubicle walls can 'build a computer' at that level.

That's the point.

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[ChunderDownunder]

I spent about $AU1K on one of their business 12" laptops back in 2008. Best machine ever and is still going, albeit handed down to my mother several years back.

Where HP gets a bad reputation, I'm guessing, is at the low end. Our local electronics retailer, jb hifi, always has netbooks on sale for about $299 and they're barely specced better than my aforementioned 8yo friend - 2GB RAM, no SSD, no improvement in screen res, miscellaneous Atom/Pentium/Celeron chip.

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[ChunderDownunder]

I thought there was some 'developer mode', whence one could flash an entirely new coreboot payload and bypass the protections altogether?

Re: Apples and Persimmons

[macs4all]

You don't understand the difference between "makes" and "designs".

As an embedded Developer with almost 40 years' PAID experience and several industrial product designs under my belt, I think I DO understand the difference, COWARD.

The first product I designed the software and most of the hardware for (it employed an already-built power-electronics assembly, but I did the controller design and and all the software), back in 1989, we used a Contract Manufacturer, because we didn't have SMT fabrication facilites in-house. And since that time, I think I have done the software and hardware for several other products that were ultimately built by Contract Manufacturers. So, I think I DO know the difference between "Design" and "Makes" (manufactures).

So, STFU, and go crawl back under whatever slimy rock you live under.

Re: Apples and Persimmons

[kaatochacha]

https://www.bose.com/en_us/sto...

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[obscuro]

I don't get it. drinkypoo isn't any more or less pissed off than at least half of /.'s members. I'd say he's squarely in the middle of the piss and vinegar scale.

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[lsatenstein]

I had 5 HP PCs, purchased over different years. All died just after the guarantee expired. Mostly, the power supply. But to obtain compact size, the PS had to be long and thin, and propitiatory. What we did was pull the hard disk, cpu and ram, and (if there was a DVD player), buy a better mother board and rebuild the system using off-the-shelf items.

HP product reliability is "value engineered". That is, it is designed to last the guarantee period and not much more. I have a fear of purchasing any other HP products. Perhaps it was done that way in the 2000-2005 period. Hopefully HP does now make a better quality product.

Re: Apples and Persimmons

[macs4all]

https://www.bose.com/en_us/sto...

Ok, I take it back about the Bose Stores. I guess they DO have some, although I can't for the life of me imagine why, other than the fact that general-purpose "HiFi" stores are all but gone in the U.S. I have just never seen one.

Bose DOES look like they copied Apple's general "look" for their stores, though.

Re:Apples and Persimmons

[Shirley Marquez]

Gateway, eMachines, and Acer are all the same company now. Have been since 2007 when Acer bought Gateway, which itself had bought eMachines in 2004. The eMachines brand was retired at the beginning of 2013; Acer still uses the Gateway brand for some products.

Chromebook?

[Iamthecheese]

Can I ask the reason, with that much power, not to include a real OS? Also it's disingenuous to name high specs, then say "starting at $lowprice", and THEN say the low specs that go with the low price. That smells like slashvertising.

Re:Chromebook?

[LWATCDR]

Odds are you will see a Windows version of the same machine. I just hope you can put Linux on this one or the Windows version... Oh and that the touchpad does not suck.

Re:Chromebook?

[Njorthbiatr]

Very much agree. You could even cover up the HP logo with an Ubuntu sticker.

Re:Chromebook?

[mrchaotica]

Chrome OS is Linux (and if you don't like the Chrome UI, a normal DE is just a chroot away). Are you saying Linux isn't a real OS?

Re:Chromebook?

[ArmoredDragon]

I think Chrome OS might get interesting very soon, namely because you'll be able to run Android apps in multi-window mode. And given that mobile is all the app rage lately, I don't think you'll find an kind of shortage of things to do on it.

Not that I'll buy this machine mind you, just that Chrome OS *may* see a sudden uptick in consumer demand.

Re:Chromebook?

[greenfruitsalad]

i do not like limitations of ChromeOS but it is currently the ONLY way to get a haswell/broadwell/skylake laptop with linux with proper power management. i've yet to see a non-chromeos laptop that can enter a state lower than PC3 (package state, not core).

https://www.reddit.com/r/linux...
https://www.reddit.com/r/linux...

so I, for one, am interested in this new chromebook. i currently have a haswell chromebook with crouton installed and i have never experienced such battery life with a linux machine before (not even on dell sputnik). it's a crappy cheap machine but i'm finding myself using it almost exclusively these days. it's the first computer i can leave the house with while leaving the charger at home.

Re:Chromebook?

[thsths]

Exactly. The MacBook Pro comes with a real OS, this Chromebook is just an advertising delivery system. Yes, it is good value, but unless you can open it up for real applications, it is not actually a computer.

Re:Chromebook?

[bill_mcgonigle]

Are you saying Linux isn't a real OS?

I infer that the claim is that most people need and can securely maintain Windows, rather than ChromeOS. A rather dubious claim, in my experience.

Re:Chromebook?

[youngatheart]

If you're asking, you aren't going to like the answer, but I'll try anyway.

Like many /.'ers I do support for family. Guess which laptops and computers get screwed up? Windows of course. If I don't want to have to fix stuff on a regular basis, I rule Windows out immediately. Macs seem a bit pricey but I could get over that, the problem I have is that typically people find it hard to use at first, which for some of my family translates to forever. (One of the people I support gets quite upset if Internet Explorer isn't on the page he left it on.)

You know what doesn't get screwed up? Chromebooks. I can hand one to a nine year old niece or to her grandmother and they'll be able to do everything they want and it won't be messed up when they hand it back. We have two that we keep on hand for just that sort of purpose. They're both cheap and a few years old, and they still keep up with all that their target audience asks of them.

At this price though, this wouldn't be for my niece or her grandmother. This would be a Chromebook for me. I'm a veteran of OSs ranging from Xenix to Microsoft Server 2012, so I feel comfortable with pretty much whatever. About the only question that matters to me when I pick an OS for my own use is how much effort it will require.

In years past, I would compile my own custom kernel and tweak optimizations for all the software I ran which made me a big fan of Gentoo and FreeBSD, and I'd spend hours tweaking Blackbox. These days? I take the easy and fast route for most things. My current desktop dual boots Windows 10 and Mint and most of my servers run CentOS. If I'm working, I'm either on a remote command line or in a remote desktop, so what good does Windows or Linux or Mac on the laptop do for me? The only thing I ask of my local computer most of the time is that it render web pages well and not give me grief over streaming videos when I'm taking downtime.

So this is a tempting laptop for me. It would do everything I need in a snappy fashion, including running video on my real displays and take zero maintenance. That's what makes Chromebooks most appealing, they don't take effort. Plus, with this higher level of hardware, if I ever decided I needed something else, I'd just put Linux or BSD on it and it'd be as good for the money as most of the alternatives I might have purchased.

Re:Chromebook?

[Tough Love]

Oh and that the touchpad does not suck.

All touchpads without separate click buttons suck, it's only a question of degree.

Re:Chromebook?

[Tough Love]

It's a cheap and (probably) good Linux machine.

Re:Chromebook?

[Mr D from 63]

There are a lot of Macbook owners that only use it for browsing and email. But it was cool and thin, so they wanted it.

Re:Chromebook?

[bjohnso5]

I can attest to the heat issues, I had an HP laptop die because the GPU un-soldered itself from the motherboard slowly over time. I'm too lazy to crack open the case and try to heatgun it back into life.

Re:Chromebook?

[tepples]

why could you not install your own OS?

Because every time a Chromebook is turned on, its firmware begs the user to wipe the hard drive and reinstall Chrome OS.

Re:Chromebook?

[tepples]

Until someone presses Space while the machine is booting, which disables developer mode and erases your chroot.

Re:Chromebook?

[chispito]

Can I ask the reason, with that much power, not to include a real OS? Also it's disingenuous to name high specs, then say "starting at $lowprice", and THEN say the low specs that go with the low price. That smells like slashvertising.

Because it's not for you. This is for someone who wants an iPad with a built-in keyboard.

Re:Chromebook?

[macs4all]

Oh and that the touchpad does not suck.

All touchpads without separate click buttons suck, it's only a question of degree.

What about "touchpads" (trackpads) that have the entire touchpad as a "clicky" button, ala Apple? They are widely regarded as having the hands-down (no pun) best trackpads in the industry, by a very wide margin.

Re:Chromebook?

[macs4all]

I think Chrome OS might get interesting very soon, namely because you'll be able to run Android apps in multi-window mode. And given that mobile is all the app rage lately, I don't think you'll find an kind of shortage of things to do on it.

Not that I'll buy this machine mind you, just that Chrome OS *may* see a sudden uptick in consumer demand.

Oh, boy! What a wonderful thing: To be able to run scaled-down, bullshit mobile Apps on your "real" computer.

I simply don't see the attraction. Mobile Apps are for when we need to do things on-the-go; they are RARELY good examples of real, robust Applications (not "Apps").

Re:Chromebook?

[the_humeister]

Odds are you will see a Windows version of the same machine. I just hope you can put Linux on this one or the Windows version... Oh and that the touchpad does not suck.

I already runs Linux. It just so happens that ChromeOS sits on top of it.

Re:Chromebook?

[LWATCDR]

True but meant a full linux distro like Mint vs Chrome

Re:Chromebook?

[sootman]

Yeah. The way they wrote that really sucks. Here's what you ACTUALLY get for $499: "Entry-level models will likely* have lesser specs: the laptop can be configured with a 1920 x 1080 pixel display, 4GB or 8GB of RAM, and processor options including Pentium 4405Y, Core M3, and Core M5 processor." So $499 gets you a 1080p screen and 4 GB and whichever processor is worst on that list. In other words, it gets you a $499 laptop.

* and who the fuck put "likely" in there? How about "absolutely definitely"!? :-/

Re:Chromebook?

[tepples]

First of all no it doesn't, all you do is ctrl-D for chrome or ctrl-L for a bootloader

That's fine if you turn it on, not so fine if someone else power-cycles it.

Second of all, you can just remove the hardware protection and put a complete chrome free bios on it.

On all of them?

Re:Chromebook?

[greenfruitsalad]

are you sure you're looking at the leftmost column in powertop's "Idle Stats"? what you're saying should not be possible. things are slowly starting to move in 4.6 kernel ( http://git.kernel.org/cgit/lin... ) . it should not be possible with 4.4.7.

Re:Chromebook?

[greenfruitsalad]

i totally agree, with a little addendum. buttons should be above the touchpad and the touchpad itself should be disabled. nipple FTW.

Re:Chromebook?

[Tough Love]

What about "touchpads" (trackpads) that have the entire touchpad as a "clicky" button, ala Apple?

Suck.

They are widely regarded as having the hands-down (no pun) best trackpads in the industry, by a very wide margin.

Seems like a very low bar.

Re:Chromebook?

[jon3k]

As opposed to a Macbook which is completely ad free. Until you connect it to the internet and open a web browser, of course. I can install an adblocker on chromeos just like I can on a Mac.

Re:Chromebook?

[ArmoredDragon]

Oh, boy! What a wonderful thing: To be able to run scaled-down, bullshit mobile Apps on your "real" computer.

You probably say that because you have only a narrow understanding of what people actually do with computers, complicated by a narrow understanding of what Android apps can do (my guess is that you're used to iphone apps, which are deliberately limited in scale and functionality by Apple.)

I simply don't see the attraction. Mobile Apps are for when we need to do things on-the-go; they are RARELY good examples of real, robust Applications (not "Apps").

If you give somebody a reason to scale up those apps, they will. In case you haven't noticed, Android allows app developers to modify the look and feel of the app depending on the screen size, which can go anywhere from a 2" screen to a 200" screen.

Re: Chromebook?

[Bing Tsher E]

It sounds almost like an iPad pro, doesn't it. Except a lot cheaper and a lot less locked down. Less stupid-proof, though, which probably gets some people nervous.

Re:Chromebook?

[greenfruitsalad]

well, i envy you. my nuc with i5-4250u has never gone past PC2.

Re:Chromebook?

[macs4all]

What about "touchpads" (trackpads) that have the entire touchpad as a "clicky" button, ala Apple?

Suck.

They are widely regarded as having the hands-down (no pun) best trackpads in the industry, by a very wide margin.

And who, pray tell, do you think makes a better Trackpad than Apple?

Seems like a very low bar.

Re: Chromebook?

[macs4all]

It sounds almost like an iPad pro, doesn't it. Except a lot cheaper and a lot less locked down. Less stupid-proof, though, which probably gets some people nervous.

No. An iPad Pro is still an iPad, and makes no claims to be otherwise. It just has a couple of unique features (compared to the "non-pro" iPads).

Having said that, I do believe it is really a Development Platform for Apple internally to play around with migrating OS X to ARM (and with Touch support). But that's just a guess on my part.

Re:Chromebook?

[rthille]

That's easy to fix:
https://johnlewis.ie/custom-ch...

Re:Chromebook?

[ChunderDownunder]

The rest of the industry is adopting hybrid models. Universal apps on Windows, Convergence on Ubuntu, Android apps on Chrome OS, etc.

My parents purchased me a Mac in 1991 before NT4 became a thing, so I missed the resurrection of Jobs. But if Apple aren't interested in a hybrid Surface platform, I guess I ain't cool enough for the 21st century. Oh well...

Re:Chromebook?

[mjwx]

Like many /.'ers I do support for family. Guess which laptops and computers get screwed up?

Mac's.

Having done Mac support in a professional environment, Windows problems are easy to fix, Mac problems often require hours of hair pulling trial and error to fix. They also occur at about the same frequency (comparing OS X to Win XP SP2). Even though there were only 5 Macs in a 200 head company, I spent 25% of my time on Mac problems.

I'm smarter than you, I dont do family support. I tell them to buy an Asus because 1. The hardware support is good, 2. The hardware hardly ever breaks, 3. If it does, it's Asus' problem and; 4. Windows problems are 9 times out of 10 hardware problems (hence Asus' problem). As such the last 12 AM phone call from a distraught relative about a computer had to do with a Mac and I told them what I told them when they bought it, "It's your problem".

Beyond this, Windows problems are pretty rare these days. The biggest problem is still the user and I've watched a dumb user completely fuck a macbook faster than a PC by doing the same stupid shit (installing every toolbar and bit of software that came along). I was surprised the Mac fell as quickly as it did to a clueless user and as you could have guessed, I dont exactly hold Apple in high esteem when it comes to reliability.

BTW, I've removed all references from Apple from my work history. As time passes the risk of a current or future employee finding out that I know something about fixing Mac's grows less and less of a threat.

Re:Chromebook?

[tepples]

In that case after 30s it boots anyhow, still in dev mode.

Unless the person who turned on the computer presses Space to wipe the drive, not knowing that he or she isn't supposed to do that.

Also if you're lending it to someone they're not going to need to power it off/on, just logon/logoff.

You'd be surprised at what novice users actually do despite not needing to.

Costs less but

[Groo Wanderer]

Does commensurately less too. It isn't as doorstop-worthy as one of those 32GB MS cloud-traps, but I still pity those who buy this.

Re:Costs less but

[Tough Love]

Does commensurately less too. It isn't as doorstop-worthy as one of those 32GB MS cloud-traps, but I still pity those who buy this.

I don't, I'll probably pick one up instead of another tablet. Battery life, weight, usable keyboard, decent screen. Perfect for travelling. Good enough for a school computer and you won't cry too much if it gets dropped. Of course it will be running Linux not brain damaged Android. For printing and bulk storage you use wifi or usb.

Re: Costs less but

[Tough Love]

You have to reinstall a Linux distribution if you want the full GNU/Linux toolset.

Duh.

And if you do that, you get a nag screen every time you boot it saying your OS isn't secure, and asking to reinstall chrome OS.

press ENTER to turn off VERIFICATION

Shill much?

[swimboy]

Comparing this to a MacBook Pro is like comparing a Chevy Spark to a BMW 7-series. The MacBook Pro is Apple's big-boy-pants laptop with a real i5 or i7 processor, and a real OS. This has a Core m processor and ChromeOS. Not even close to the same thing, and nobody who'd be happy with one would even consider the other.

Re:Shill much?

[Altus]

Yeah but this one is also thinner than the thickest laptop apple makes. Its innovative!

Re:Shill much?

[Njorthbiatr]

Those "real" processors are still mobile processors.

But what does it matter when it's driver is OS X? May as well put grandma in the driving seat of your BMW 7.

Re:Shill much?

[e432776]

Agreed. These machines are not comparable, except at the most basic level (e.g "can go online"). Strange headline.

Re:Shill much?

[swimboy]

If you equate OS X with grandma driving the BMW 7, then it's a dead squirrel driving the Spark with ChromeOS.

Re:Shill much?

[Tough Love]

Comparing this to a MacBook Pro is like comparing a Chevy Spark to a BMW 7-series.

Right, a BMW 7xx with one door.

Re:Shill much?

[nine-times]

But it's all-metal. Isn't that why people like Apple laptops, because the casing is metal?

Re:Shill much?

[Solandri]

The new Skylake Core M processors are actually better than a mobile i5 (they have 4MB cache like an i7, vs the 3MB of the i5). They just throttle more aggressively when hitting thermal limits because the manufacturer has put in a smaller cooling system. It's why you see them beating i5 laptops on certain benchmarks, while losing badly to them in others. If the benchmark is short, the Core M doesn't thermal throttle, and the larger cache gives it an edge. If the benchmark is long, the Core M throttles and is loses. (This wasn't true of the Broadwell Core M - those would only turbo boost on a single core. But the Skylake Core M will turbo on both cores just like an i5 or i7.)

I'm wondering if some manufacturer will notice this, and stick a Core M in their laptop with a regular-sized cooler, to effectively give you a "cheap i7" (only difference between the mobile dual core i7 and i5 is 4MB vs 3MB cache).

The major distinguishing features of the MBP are:

• Calibrated 100% sRGB screen. Lots of other laptops have screens which hit 100% sRGB or close, a few even cover 100% Adobe RGB. But if you don't do graphics, photo, or video work, you're not gonna notice the difference between a 100% sRGB screen and a 80% sRGB screen (pretty much all IPS-type displays can hit at least 80%). 100% Adobe RGB OTOH is very noticeable (think of the AMOLED screens on Samsung phones), and it's sad that we went backwards from NTSC (roughly the same color gamut as Adobe RGB) in the CRT days, to sRGB as a standard on flat panels. The MBPs are one of the few laptops whose screens are calibrated at the factory. But anybody doing color-critical work will own their own colorimeter and do their own calibration, rather than rely on a generic color profile.
• Iris graphics. This is just Apple's way of bypassing a design flaw in the Macbooks. They don't have vent holes, so the insides get really toasty. No the metal chassis does not help heat transfer because there's a layer of insulating air between the hot parts and the chassis. When you combine a heat insulator with a conductor, the insulator wins. A better solution is to use vent holes to remove the heated air and replace it with cool air. The lack of vents on the MBPs means a discrete GPU is out of the question, forcing Apple to resort to other means to improve 3D graphics performance.
• PCIe SSDs. While these can exceed the SATA 3 limits, they only do so for sequential read/writes. That makes the extra speed only really useful for certain tasks. The vast majority of computing tasks are bound by the 4k read/write speeds, which are still around 30-70 MB/s unqueued for the best SSDs - well under the SATA 3 limit. Video editing is one of the few tasks which benefits from the higher sequential read/write speeds (which admittedly many MBPs are used for). But if you're not doing that sort of thing, about the only time you'll see the extra speed of the PCIe SSD is if you're copying movie files to/from an external PCIe SSD. Otherwise its performance will be indistinguishable from a regular SATA 3 SSD.

The MBPs are extremely good tools for the intended audience, and I recommend them in a heartbeat for anyone in those fields (graphics artists, photographers, videographers). But for anyone else, you're wasting a lot of money on features which won't benefit you in any way.

Re:Shill much?

[gnunick]

MacBook's not Wintel, but it's still Intel, so there's no reason you need to have OS X on it. I slapped Ubuntu 16.04 on the recent-model MacBook Pro supplied by my employer, and now it works great and is easy to use.

Well, other than the stupid fucking buttonless touchpad...

Re:Shill much?

[MightyYar]

As a smooth person, I'm triggered by the word "chunky".

Re: Shill much?

[gnunick]

I made no complaint about Ubuntu's support for the touchpad, dipshit AC. Multi-touch scrolling etc. works fine.

It's just a fucking crappy touchpad, full stop. It has no real buttons--like I said the first time.

Re:Shill much?

[laffer1]

I don't know about your grandma, but mine can drive very fast. I'd rather use OS X than Windows any day of the week.

Re:Shill much?

[terjeber]

But what does it matter when it's driver is OS X?

You are aware that OSX is Unix right? The best Unix for the desktop created by anyone any time in history. Apple are the ones who created the dawn of the "Linux on the Desktop". It just wasn't Linux since Linux/X/Gnome/KDE/(Whateverthefuck you can think og that doesn't work) GUI developers are a bunch of retarded morons.

Re: Shill much?

[terjeber]

Ignorant much? Mine works fine. Buttons and all. Just gotta know where they are.

Re:Shill much?

[terjeber]

and I'd rather use OSX than Linux twice a day. In fact, I'd rather have a root canal once a week with no sedatives rather than giving up OSX for Linux.

Re:Shill much?

[Njorthbiatr]

The GUI for OS X is atrocious. I'll take Linux over it, thanks.

Re:Shill much?

[cant_get_a_good_nick]

Not even close to the same thing, and nobody who'd be happy with one would even consider the other.

Umm, me?

I have some macs at home, so im good with Mac OSX. One of them is our only laptop. Well, not my laptop anymore - wifey uses it all the time. So I need (want, but i round up to need) a second laptop and am considering a MacBook. Im also a pseudo Linux admin. I was looking for a new box, something light to take back and forth to work. So i can drop 1500 on the macbook. Or about half on this guy.

They're both light. Run a UNIX OS. (I'd put FC on it - my work runs CentOS/RHEL and i'd want some consistency, but i need a newer kernel). Won't kill my back if i lug them back and forth daily. And you really don't need an i7. The sweetspot for price performance is an i5.

Now, Im not saying that I'm typical. Im an outlier. But the market you speak of is not zero. The other machine i'm thinking of is an ASUS UX305C.

I do agree with most folks that think this isn't a normal comparison. The headline is kind of clickbaiting, but I for one welcome our new corporate overlords....

Re:Shill much?

[Revarg]

I have to disagree. You are right when looking at a tech-literate consumer, but most consumers are not tech-literate. I can not tell you how many people i have had to deal with back when i was in IT that just wanted a shiny rectangle to check facebook and email. These people wouldn't be able to tell the difference between an i7 and core m, because they never use more than a core m's worth of power.

Re:Shill much?

[terjeber]

The GUI for OS X is atrocious. I'll take Linux over it

So, just curious, when you were falling down the stairs, landing on your head over and over and over and over, why did you not try to shield your self with your hands? Oh, and saying "I'll take Linux over it" is silly, Linux doesn't have a GUI, it has a more or less infinite number of them.

Cool

[Anonymous Coward]

I just wish I could get a chromebook like this in a 17" model. It has SSH and a web browser along with RDP support- so its basically a kickbutt thin client. Not sure why people fail to get that about chromebooks... they are awesome daily drivers.

(I use google apps for work, maybe you poor souls stuck in 1995 on a rusty old exchange server dont get to feel the same.)

Re:Cool

[110010001000]

Daily drivers? Are you even Agile, dude? Some of us dont want Google, Inc spying on our every move.

Piece of paper

[Chmarr]

Much MUCH thinner than the HP all-metal chromebook, and costs $500 less.

Re:Piece of paper

[U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M]

And the battery will never leak or explode.

Re:Piece of paper

[U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M]

Sony makes paper now?

Re:Piece of paper

[Chmarr]

And it has two sides! It dual-boots!

Re:Piece of paper

[terjeber]

and is WAY more useful than any Chromebook ever made

Of course it's cheaper.

[Gnomaana]

Of course it is $800 dollars less than a MacBook Pro. Its not a computer. Its a browser in a box.

There's a USB Type-C port

[fustakrakich]

That's good. I was worried there would be no place to plug in my headphones

Lame

[110010001000]

No wireless. Less space than a Nomad. Lame.

Re:Lame

[danbob999]

Except this actually has wireless AND more space than a nomad, so I guess we finally have a device which isn't lame.

Simpsons: even submitting to Apple beats HP

[walterbyrd]

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xvfbpq_simpsons-hp-joke_fun

Misleading Trash Article

[Anonymous Coward]

From TFA

"Entry-level models will likely have lesser specs: the laptop can be configured with a 1920 x 1080 pixel display, 4GB or 8GB of RAM, and processor options including Pentium 4405Y, Core M3, and Core M5 processor."

That's the entry-level model that costs $800 less, not the one you're advertising, you fucking shill.

Re:Misleading Trash Article

[danbert8]

Yeah, as misleading as the "Flight deals from $59!*"

*$59 flight only available to the airport that is an hour drive away and would be stupid to actually fly to.

Re:Misleading Trash Article

[Chmarr]

I think you missed the point. He was referring to the case that the DESTINATION airport was only an hour drive away.

Re:Misleading Trash Article

[ChunderDownunder]

I thought it was referring to budget carriers such as RyanAir that promise you Barcelona but are some distance away in Girona and even then require you to catch a 20 minute bus from town to the airport.

Could you put Linux on it?

[walterbyrd]

I bought a Samsung Chromebook for $150. I am happy with it. Inexpensive, no fuss, fast boot, battery lasts all day and then some.

I could run Linux on it, but I am happy with it the way it is.

From HP huh?

[rimcrazy]

Wow, at $499 that is a very expensive doorstop.

I wouldn't let my dog own anything from HP. My how far the mighty have fallen............

Brave boys, designating it 13...

[jpellino]

wonder how loud the fight was to go straight to 14.

Re:HP Keyboards.. fuck that noise

[thsths]

Keyboard can be strange. I have an old Toshiba R500. It is not the thinnest, but certainly the lightest laptop I ever had, just around 1kg. And the keyboard is actually quite excellent. Recent laptops just don't seem to have the same quality.

All metal

[fahrbot-bot]

I know Carly may have fired HP's best and brightest, but they *do* know it doesn't have to be made out of actual Chrome, right?

Re:Why is this rubbish on Slashdot?

[Tough Love]

It's about where the PC market is going

Re:USB-C port

[markus]

I believe, with the exception of the printer, the answer is yes to all of your questions.

And if your printer was built in the last couple of years, there is a good chance it supports Google Cloudprint, allowing you to print to it any time your Chromebook is connected to the network. No need for any wires.

If you have an older printer, you'll need a helper application to run on another computer though. So, yes, that's a little awkward but it is a problem that will go away over time, as hardware gets updated.

Re:Why is this rubbish on Slashdot?

[U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M]

Oh yeah? Well I have a Raspberry Pi zero and it's even thinner than your Arduino.

"Thin" is not a feature

[somenickname]

Beyond a certain point, "thin" stops being a feature. We reached that point long ago. The sacrifices that laptop developers are making to create these ultra-thin laptops are a huge step backwards for computing. User replaceable disks/ram/keyboard/motherboards/anything was a fairly common feature of many laptops until this ultra-thin craze started. I've physically broken every laptop I've ever owned at least once. A laptop with everything soldered onto the motherboard and practically hermetically sealed, will be a paperweight in a year for a heavy use laptop user. But, maybe that's the plan. Sell people easily destroyed, non-fixable but very fancy looking junk and hope you can sell them even fancier looking junk next year when their laptop stops working.

Maybe HP

[rsilvergun]

Is just using chrome books to dodge the Microsoft tax without losing their OEM license?

Re:WOWWWW!!!! $800 LESS!

[markus]

If you legitimately need Photoshop, then no, a Chromebook is not for you.

But realistically, very few people need Photoshop, nor can they afford it; and if they did, they wouldn't use it on a laptop, but have a properly calibrated monitor in a room with properly controlled lighting.

For everybody else, times have moved on, and web based photo services have gotten surprisingly powerful. For better or for worse, a consumer or even prosumer is often better off using those services, then shelling out mega-bucks to Adobe -- and that's speaking as a user who has bought the Adobe suit, not just once but multiple versions in the last 10 years.

For the last couple of years, I have been taking my Chromebook with me any time I travel; and honestly, it's the better mobile device. We have a couple of powerful laptops at home, a few powerful stationary workstations, and even some server space; but none of those ever leave the house. For that matter, my wife bought a fancy Macbook a while ago, and after having used it for about two years, she admits that she would have been just as happy if not happier with a Chromebook.

And on top of that, Chromebooks are cheaper; they also are zero maintenance. And they are fully disposable. If a Chromebook breaks or is stolen on a trip, I can have Amazon mail me a new one same day, and once I turn it on, I am back to where I left off working with the stolen device. No wonder businesses love Chromebooks.

Advertising and fanboy trolling in one!

[Imazalil]

Good job /.

Not only does this read like a paid advertising piece, you've also managed to work in Apple in the oddest way possible.

Enjoy both your paid-for-story cash and the added ad spike from starting yet another fanboy fight.

a potato costs almost $2,000 less than a macbook!

[netsavior]

nt

$499 for a Chromebook!!!! WTH

[BLToday]

I thought the point of a Chromebook was to make it affordable by making it a stripped down and not needing a powerful CPU. 32 GB eMMC is pretty stripped down, and Pentium. So you're paying a premium for thinnest while having none of the advantages of a full OS. Explain to me why I want this over a tablet or a laptop with a full OS? Plus, it's an HP. I've never had an HP laptop last more than 2 years.

Re:$499 for a Chromebook!!!! WTH

[Trachman]

You are being conditioned to think that everything that does not cost four digits, meaning $999 or less, is affordable.

And a lot of Macbook users are Unix users

[raymorris]

Another segment of Macbook users have Mac because it's a well-supported Unix, on consistently decent hardware. Assuming I can install Linux or another OS of my choice on this Chromebook as easily as I have on others, I may be interested.

Re: And a lot of Macbook users are Unix users

[Bing Tsher E]

Yes, there's a tiny segment of users like that...

What's the point of this?

[zerofoo]

We deploy tons of chromebooks at our school - we love them. Specifically plasticky 15" HP units with Intel CPUs - they are $199 and durable as heck.

The entire point of a chromebook is cheap and low-power. Storage and computing are (mostly) done in the cloud.

Is there anyone on earth asking for a luxury chromebook? That's like asking for a luxury Nissan Versa.

Re:HP Keyboards.. fuck that noise

[pr0fessor]

I have a working thinkpad t43 sitting on my desk covered in dust... it runs like a champ unfortunately upgrading from xp pro to win 7 would be a pain and it would probably barely run afterwards.

Re:USB-C port

[TechyImmigrant]

Having had a couple of chromebooks in the house over the past few years, it became painfully apparent that the UI was going to some lengths to try and pretend that there wasn't a file system. This is what made them useless for me. Moving files between two devices became a process of sending them via Google.

My MBP doesn't do that to me. My PC doesn't do that to me. My work laptop doesn't do that to me.
My phone does do that to me but it's easy to work around.

 

The real question

[m.dillon]

Is ... can I run DragonFly on it? Or is the BIOS locked to Chrome ? If this baby has the normal write-protect screw / developer mode BIOS features that allow us to run whatever we want on it instead of being locked to chrome, then great!

We've had great success with the older Acer C720[P] (running a mobile haswell cpu) running DragonFly. So if one of these new HP Skylake-m babies allows me to cut into the dance then I'll give it a big thumbs up.

I'll have to buy one to find out, I guess.

-Matt

Absurd fiction.

[Brannon]

Apple designs their own laptops. Obviously they sub-contract manufacturing, but they clearly don't just slap an Apple label onto some rickety ODM crap.

Is it just me? Or has thinness gone too far?

[xtronics]

I would always rather have more battery capacity and a real USB jack than thinness.. Just don't get the attraction.

Thinner Than MacBook Pro, Costs $800 Less...

[poemtree]

doesn't run OS X.

Read the fine print...

[cpotoso]

"starting price of $499, ... up to 16GB of RAM, up to a 3200 x 1800 pixel IPS display, and up to an Intel Core M7 Skylake processor." Meaning, it is NOT GOING TO COST $499 for 16GB ram, 3200x1800 IPS, m7... Also: it is a chromebook, piece of crap.

How long does johnlewis.ie take?

[tepples]

How long does it typically take between when a Chromebook model becomes available and when a fix for "Press Space to wipe" on that model gets posted on johnlewis.ie? Then add that much time to the release date of HP's new Chromebook.

Re: pointless pointer

[gnunick]

You have real buttons, adjacent to your late-model Apple touchpad? Fancy! Are they above the touchpad, or below? I prefer to have them below, myself.

On this MacBook, Apple continues with their misguided idea (started with the almost universally-loathed Abominable Puck mouse on the original iMac) that one button should be enough for everyone. Except they decided that this crappy, somewhat tilty touchpad should pretend that the whole thing is a button--better yet, it should pretend to be *multiple* buttons, depending on where your finger is when you click... yet with no haptic indication whatsoever of where to actually place that finger for a left/middle/right click (and woe betide the hapless user who accidentally lets another finger touch the pad while attempting a middle- or right-click).

As one deeply learned and wise person once said on the internets, you "just gotta know where they are".

If that's what you have, and you like it, fine. I have no argument with your subjective opinion. I said, objectively, that this touchpad has no real buttons.

The Magic/Mighty Mouse is almost as bad, but at least I find it usable most of the time... even though it, likewise, has no real buttons.

I forget. Why are we arguing about this? Oh right, you're trying to tell me that I'm ignorant. But unless you're the idiot who designed this thing, I really have no issue with you. I'm happy for you that you like it. Rock on!

https://www.google.com/#q=defi...

Re: pointless pointer

[terjeber]

You have real buttons, adjacent to your late-model Apple touchpad?

When I click the lower right hand of my touch pad, it depresses and clicks with full haptic feed back and an audible click. I am able to find the lower right corner of my trackpad without issue. The same goes for the lower left corner of the trackpad.

I said, objectively, that this touchpad has no real buttons.

Well, my does. It is integrated with the pad, but it is very obviously a button that depresses and clicks. Now, I have not tried the "taptic" touchpad, but I'll check one out, my colleague prefers it over the older one, specifically because of the haptic feedback. If you have a Mac Pro touchpad without a haptic feedback, you should have it serviced. I do not know of any that do not have that.