Slashdot Mirror
Language Creation Society Says Klingon Language Isn't Covered By Copyright
Reader AmiMoJo writes: Earlier this year Paramount Pictures and CBS Studios filed a lawsuit against the makers of a Star Trek inspired fan film, accusing them of copyright infringement. In their amicus brief, which actually uses Klingon language, the Language Creation Society lists many examples of how Klingon has evolved, and it specifically disputes Paramount's earlier claims that there are no human beings who communicate using the Klingon language. "In fact, there are groups of people for whom Klingon is their only common language. There are friends who only speak Klingon to each other. In fact, at least one child was initially raised as a native speaker of Klingon." As such, Paramount should not be allowed to claim copyright over the entire Klingon language, both in written and spoken form. The language is a tool for people to communicate and express ideas, something people should be allowed to do freely under U.S. law, LCS argues.
Just remove the word "Klingon" and you're good to go
“He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
Maybe if this goes well it can wrest Elvish away from the Tolkien estate
There may or may not be patentable aspects of conlangs, but a language is an idea, and you can’t copyright ideas. You can copyright a BOOK on a language, but not the language itself.
Billions of children are raised on the delusion that there's a man in the sky who forbids them to masturbate and tells them to hate gay people. And you worry about something innocent such as this?
First, let's make sure all religious upbringing is classified as child abuse, then think about whether some nerdy shit is actually harmful.
The father was featured in a documentary I saw a while back, but I can't remember which one. Anyway, he taught his daughter Klingon from birth and she picked it up easily and quickly, as an experiment to study language development in children and see if there was something special about natural languages compared to invented ones. At the age of about 4 she lost interest and stopped using it. Of course she spoke English too.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Which kind of idiots raise their children on Klingon as their main language?
The same people would name their kids after fictional characters. Baby names based on Game of Thrones are popular these days.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3200776/Oliver-Amelia-popular-names-second-year-running.html
You'll get bullied less if you have a popular delusion.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Your mother has a smooth forehead. Klingon lives matter!
Genesis 38:8-10
Leviticus 18:22
FWIW: Klingon is no longer listed as one of the translatable languages on Google's "Translate" site ... no idea when it disappeared.
Paramount?
See http://conlang.org/axanar for our press release giving background, links to all the case docs, and a formal legal memorandum from Dentons on conlangs & IP law.
Feel free to ask if you have any questions.
http://s.ai - http://s.ai/foia - http://s.ai/tsa/legal - https://patreon.com/saizai
Take Esperanto. Clearly this falls under the "useful system" rubric; it was intended by its creator to be a useful system to exchange ideas.
Now consider a hypothetical. Suppose Paramount produced a movie about an eccentric scholar who invents a universal language. They go so far as to hire a linguist to construct the rudiments of such a language. In that case the language is constructed to give the most convincing artistic impression of a constructed language possible. It's not designed to be useful, it just is, like fantasy weapons and armor which are probably not very practical but in some cases could hurt someone if you finished them properly (e.g. putting an edge on Sting from LotR). Is the movie Esperanto essentially different from a realistically designed fantasy sword?
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Billions of children are raised on the delusion that there's a man in the sky who forbids them to masturbate and tells them to hate gay people. And you worry about something innocent such as this?
First, let's make sure all religious upbringing is classified as child abuse, then think about whether some nerdy shit is actually harmful.
If I had mod points, I'd upvote this.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
[[Citation]]
It's called "the bible", look it up, specifically Genesis and Leviticus. Also check out the Quran, which is chock-full of the same hateful shit.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
No true Scotsman falacy. If that were the case we wouldn't have laws like the ones in North Carolina and Alabama. Most Christians raise their children similar to Muslims raising theirs; if they had their way we'd all be dead.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
No true Christians raise their children this way. I said "true" Christians.
Bullshit. That's like saying no "true" slashdot commenter ever uses the word "fuck" in a post.
-
I'm a sinner and I fall short everyday, same as you.
No, you're just deluded. You've been lied to by people you trusted and you accepted the lies they told you, which were no doubt told to them by people they trusted.
I'm not a "sinner", because "sin" is an "offense against god", and you can't offend that which does not exist.
I may or may not "fall short" sometimes, but it's not because of a fairy tale about some woman being convinced to eat a piece of fruit by a talking snake in a magical garden.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
You get bullied less if you stand up to the bullies from the start.
No sir I dont like it.
Whenever I run into someone who speaks Klingon, or even just hear the word Klingon, I immediately think of "dingleberry". Just me?
Well now I will... Thanks a lot.
Every single ethnic group believes in the afterlife in some form or fashion.
At one time, every single ethnic group believed that the Earth was flat. Turns out they were wrong.
-
What will you do if you're wrong?
Ahhh, Pascal's Wager, the lamest of all "arguments" to believe in magical fairy tales.
If I'm wrong, I'll get to hang out with all the cool people- Jimi Hendrix, Christopher Hitchens, most of my friends, family, and lovers, Janis Joplin, Carl Sagan, Bertrand Russell, Douglas Adams, Woody Allen, Mick Jagger, Kevin Bacon, Richard Burton, George Carlin, Jeremy Clarkson, Jimmy Carr, Bruce Lee, Orson Welles, Robin Williams, David Gilmour, Charlie Parker, Steve Wozniak, etc etc etc....the list goes on and on.
If your god is willing to cast those people into the pit of Hell, then fuck your god, okay? Just fuck him.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Which kind of idiots raise their children on Klingon as their main language?
Klingons.
I've also patterned my life in a way that shows compassion, love and good will to the people I meet. And I don't need any BS fairy tale to make me a good person.
Regarding the philosophical question of whether you're right or wrong, there is 1 way you can be right, and an infinity of ways you can be wrong. Any system of belief that has been invented or can be imagined constitutes one of ways in which you might be wrong. Because all of them, including yours, has the exact same level of proof and evidence for it's veracity. There might even be one where naivity is punished with eternal torment.
At one time, every single ethnic group believed that the Earth was flat. Turns out they were wrong.
That is wrong, actually. A few people might have believed it, of course, but the majority did not. In particular not those living close to the sea.
You should realize that just because these people lived a long time ago this does not mean that they were stupid. They were just as smart as us. And they understood what they saw when a ship vanished behind the horizon.
You're obviously an intelligent guy. If you're willing, please read the following two links. It shouldn't take too long.
Proving God's Existence
Does God Exist
Thanks, but I stopped reading comic books and fantasy novels decades ago.
And if god really does exist and faith healing works, why has god never healed an amputee?
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Can't comment on this directly because it's out of scope for us.
However, the API cases are certainly related law. I suggest you google "Charles Duan" + Klingon, Oracle, Lexmark, and/or Cisco. You'll get relevant info; he writes well, both for posts and amicus briefs.
http://s.ai - http://s.ai/foia - http://s.ai/tsa/legal - https://patreon.com/saizai
Daj qech. nuvpu' lo' tlhIngan qa'majvaD tho ghewmey Har jIH.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Silence is a state of mime.
Reality is not a democracy. A bunch of people believing in something is not sufficient to declare its existence. Large numbers of people have believed all manner of absolute fucking garbage.
And to me, Pascal's Wager has to be the worst kind of cynicism. Beyond that, why should you be anything but a decent human being even if you think that when you die, that's the end of the road?
The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
Tell that to Latimer & Ridley.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
You've obviously not read it in the original Klingon.
Who ordered that?
Wet cleanup on Aisle 6!
Faster! Faster! Faster would be better!
What are you talking about?
Continuing your reasoning:
Severely beating ones disobedient children so they get permanent disabilities isn't a problem - as there are "cultures" where a child that brings dishonor to the family is killed, often in a horrifying and painful way.
Stalking, slandering and threatening women that doesn't want to date/have sex etc. with you is okay - in other places they throw acid on them.
You really think those are in the same league?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
God heals amputees in two ways, one in the present and the other in the future. One is by leading smart men and women to develop innovative prosthetics and other means to make amputees' impairments less disabling.* The other, if prophecies in Isaiah, Revelation, and elsewhere are to be believed, is by describing his plan to resurrect the dead into rebuilt bodies to fix up the earth during the millennium after Armageddon. These rebuilt bodies would have the limbs needed for the job. This second bodily healing doesn't happen prematurely because God is busy illustrating a point to Satan.
* An "impairment" is a problem in body function; a "disability" is the consequence of an impairment on activities of daily living.
So transsexuals are okay? Sounds like Iran to me.
BTW pederasts are male pedophiles that prefer boys. Gay men aren't attracted to children - but sure, there are gay pedophiles too. The linking of pedophiles with homosexuals was popular for a while but just as phrenology isn't used today that is also seen as unscientific (and false). Well unless you are Russian, they seem to like that kind of thinking over there.
Science have shown that bisexual and homosexual behavior is relatively common in nature just as in humans. That shows that it isn't a danger to the gene pool...
(yeah I took the bait - but it looked so damn tasty!)
> Ask yourself again: "what if I'm wrong?".
Pascal's wager.
> If I'm wrong, I'll get to hang out with all the cool people- Jimi Hendrix, Christopher Hitchens, most of my friends, family, and lovers, Janis Joplin, Carl Sagan, Bertrand Russell, Douglas Adams, Woody Allen, Mick Jagger, Kevin Bacon, Richard Burton, George Carlin, Jeremy Clarkson, Jimmy Carr, Bruce Lee, Orson Welles, Robin Williams, David Gilmour, Charlie Parker, Steve Wozniak, etc etc etc....the list goes on and on.
Uhhh, many of these people are still alive. Allen, Jagger, Gilmour, Wozniak... also what do you know about what they believe in their hearts? that's what matters.
Many ethnic groups do not believe in an afterlife. There are many african gods who simply manage a portfolio and have no afterlife. Some don't even have directions for believers except don't mess with their temple or they'll hurt you.
Many agnostics and atheists live lives filled with compassion, love, and a helpful attitude. I give about $2000 to charity per year, I've built houses for the homeless, sorted food at the food bank, donated money to slain police officer's families, rescued people whose cars had died- pushing them out of traffic, and so on.
By christianity, showing compassion, love, and a helpful attitude isn't at all sufficient. Either you have faith in jesus or you are not saved. You can't pretend to have faith. Yahweh is omniscient and will know if you are faking it.
And there are MANY MANY exclusionary religions (including christian sects) which say if you don't believe there way- fail. you are either exiled from yahweh's presence for an eternity of solitary confinement, or to an eternity of torture, or a near eons of torture in purgatory.
Pascal's wager is a major fail.
An even if a god created the universe exists, tying that god to your particular values or what body parts can be stuck where is impossible. There's a huge gap between the position 'a god created the universe' and 'that god cares about humans' and 'that god cares where humans stick body parts and whether they eat shelfish'.
And why would an omniscient, omnipotent being not simultaneously have spoken to all humans all over the planet and kept them on the same religion. The fact that that religion comes from one specific incredibly tiny part of the earth is really good evidence that the people there just happened to make up a religion that became a popular meme.
And have you considered how many inhuman creatures will outnumber humanity in heaven? Every stillbirth, every child that died before it reached 12 months, every miscarriage and every abortion (by the current christian faith) will be there. These beings which were never humanized, have no language, and have no culture will outnumber humanity by 20 to 1 (conservative estimate, it could easily be 100 to 1). So you'll live eternity surrounded by a sea of non-humanity.
And what kind of eternal life? Reading revelations, there's a good chance you'd be standing around for large parts of eternity doing nothing but praising yahweh along with the angels. OTH, other parts of the bible strongly imply (and some christian sects teach) that only your soul will be saved- not your personality. That's great for yahweh but not so great for you as a person.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
In the Oracle vs. Google Java case, the judge asked the parties, "Can the Java programming language be copyrighted?"
It seemed obvious to me that the answer was no.
The definition of the Java programming language is, "the set of all Java programs".
This is an infinite set.
Therefore it cannot be fixed in a tangible medium.
Therefore it cannot be copyrighted.
It seems like a similar argument should prevail here.
Well, technically atheism has nothing to do with neuroscience or science in general. It doesn't even say anything about free will.
Has Klingon ever been officially released to open source, like Swift?
You really think those are in the same league?
You haven't enjoyed Game of Thrones until you heard it in the original Klingon.
... is that not a bit retarded?
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Uhhh, many of these people are still alive. Allen, Jagger, Gilmour, Wozniak...
Sure, but they'll all die eventually and we're told in no uncertain terms that Hell is forever, so sooner or later I'll get to hang out with them. It's inevitable, if you believe in this particular fairy tale.
also what do you know about what they believe in their hearts? that's what matters.
What I know is that they're all self-professed atheists, and they're happy to identify as such. According to christian dogma, atheists go to Hell for the sin of not believing.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
I'm not a "sinner", because "sin" is an "offense against god", and you can't offend that which does not exist.
No it is not.
If you want to argue about religions you should know the basics.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
At one time, every single ethnic group believed that the Earth was flat. Turns out they were wrong.
That is an assumption that is very likely false.
For everyone with good eyes and basic concepts of geometry it always was obvious that earth is anything but flat.
If your god is willing to cast those people into the pit of Hell, then fuck your god, okay? Just fuck him. That is a Christian thing. And the Islam took it over from Christianity. No idea how the Jews see it.
Most other religions don't really distinguish between Heaven or Hell, but have a common afterlife, that probably contain particular good spots (like Walhalla versus Hel - Hel, not hell). Plenty of religions believe in reincarnation or continued life in the memories of the offsprings/successors.
Do you actually have religion classes in your country? And what do you learn there?
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Which kind of idiots raise their children on Klingon as their main language?
Terrorists, that's who! It's the language they use when they conspire on the Internet.
CBS/Paramount received a subpoena from the U.S. Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, which issued the following statement: "You [CBS and Paramount] have invented a tool that allows terrorists to communicate to each other in the dark, secretly, and law enforcement has no way to interpret what they're saying. You were smart enough to invent the language, so you can surely modify it so that it sounds just like English if the FBI listens in. We don't need it to sound like English to *everybody*, just the U.S. government."
CBS replied that this is impossible, so the committee planned to bring them to court and force them to make Klingon sound like English. They were about to be taken to court when the FBI announced it had found a third party who had been raised speaking Klingon.
Me too. For now, we wait and see how Paramount responds.
http://s.ai - http://s.ai/foia - http://s.ai/tsa/legal - https://patreon.com/saizai
People love to cite that Columbus business because it's taught in grammar school (or at least was in my day), as part of another fairy tale. See a pattern developing here?
You get bullied less if you stand up to the bullies from the start.
As a general rule that's fine but it depends on how rational the bully is in his victim selection process, how publicly he was stood up, how vindictive he is, how far he's willing to go and a host of other factors. If you run into the full psycho/ragetard that's going to haunt you for years it'll easily backfire like "Did that little twerp just [act of defiance]? I'm going to fucking destroy him. I'm going to make his every day a living hell." Because of that I have a feeling that advice is the least helpful when it's most needed.
It's a "common wisdom" because most bullies are just jerks who'll move along to the next easy mark, so it has worked for most people. In fact, it's so common I think you can assume everyone with a serious bullying problem has already tried that several times in several ways. Like going to the doctor and he tells you to rest and drink lots of water, it's probably good advice in general but when you got cancer and need chemo therapy or surgery no amount of water will do the trick.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
Maybe rappers are marketing spell checkers these days.
If you want to argue about religions you should know the basics.
Perhaps it's you that needs to learn the basics. Here's something from the Catechism of the Catholic Church that should help make it clear to you:
THE DEFINITION OF SIN
Sin is an offense against God: "Against you, you alone, have I sinned, and done that which is evil in your sight."
http://www.vatican.va/archive/...
Sin: An Offense Against God
http://www.sermoncentral.com/s...
Scriptures: Revelations 13:3-8; 16-18; 20:12-15; 12:10; 1 Corinthians 5
CHRISTIAN MORAL PRINCIPLES
Question C:In what sense is sin an offense against God?
1.Certain sins, such as idolatry, obviously infringe upon religion, but it is not so clear what bearing most immoral acts have upon the relationship with God. How do immoral acts which do not directly involve religion nevertheless offend God?
2.St. Augustine defines sin as “anything done, said, or desired against the eternal law”
"...In fact, however, sinners generally do not advert to the fact that their sins are offenses against God or, if they are believers, only reluctantly accept this implication of their sinning."
http://www.twotlj.org/G-1-13-C...
Seems pretty fuckin' clear to me. Sin is defined as "an offense against god".
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
That is an assumption that is very likely false. For everyone with good eyes and basic concepts of geometry it always was obvious that earth is anything but flat.
Nooooooooooo. Nice try, but for centuries pretty much everyone believed the Earth to be flat. The bible even makes the claim:
Isaiah 40:22: "He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
Except the Earth is NOT a circle, it's an oblate sphere. A circle is flat, a sphere is not.
‘Within its historical context, therefore, the conception of the “earth” in Gen 1 is most probably that of a single continent in the shape of a flat circular disc. In addition the Hebrews were influenced via the patriarchs by Mesopotamian concepts and via Moses and their time in Egypt by Egyptian concepts. It is, therefore, all the more historically probable that the writer and first readers of Gen 1 thought of the earth as a single continent in the shape of a flat circular disc.’
https://www.trueorigin.org/fla...
-
That is a Christian thing. And the Islam took it over from Christianity. No idea how the Jews see it.
Then maybe you should educate yourself. There is no 'Hell' in the Jewish faith.
-
Most other religions don't really distinguish between Heaven or Hell, but have a common afterlife, that probably contain particular good spots (like Walhalla versus Hel - Hel, not hell). Plenty of religions believe in reincarnation or continued life in the memories of the offsprings/successors.
What's your point? So if a lot of people believe in something then it must be true? Are you seriously claiming that it must be true because lots of people believe in it? That's argumentum ad populum, a fallacious argument that concludes that a proposition is true because many or most people believe it. That's a FAIL. The number of people that believe in something does not indicate whether or not it's true.
-
Do you actually have religion classes in your country? And what do you learn there?
Yes, my country is filled to the brim with all sorts of cranks and simple-minded folk who believe in magical fairy tales, especially the bible. The bible is riddled with errors, so I don't know why anyone would put any stock in it, but people will believe any kind of crazy shit for all sorts of reasons (usually ignorance).
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Leviticus condemns homosexuality with exactly the same strength is condemns wearing a cotton-poly shirt. Leviticus condemns just about everything, really.
There's almost no mention of homosexuality in the Bible either way. For most of human history, it simply didn't matter what you wanted to fuck, you did your part to raise a family as one of the more important duties to your tribe. The American social conservatives aren't very centered on the bible, whatever they may tell themselves, and most of the big American churches welcome anyone who's likely to donate, regardless of sexual preference.
The Quran, I don't know about what's written, but it's always the Muslims, not the Lutherans, who murdered a few more homosexuals this week by throwing them off buildings.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
I'm guessing he's referring to MS's inclusion of code under permissive Open Source licenses, such as the BSD license. The counterpoint is that MS can't "steal" the BSD code, because it's still there for everybody to use. The MS copyright is just for the work as a whole, not the unmodified code. Without further detail, his post appears to be a variation on the common /. riff of "You can't steal ideas, because ideas aren't things; unless we don't like you. Then you stole our ideas".
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
The bible is about 6000 years old. Perhaps less. Written by "flat landers" living on the land.
Every sea farer knows the earth is not flat.
The babylonians, mentioned in the bible quite often: knew the earth is a sphere.
The only idiot who believed otherwise over centuries were the uneducated Christian masses.
Do you actually have religion classes in your country? And what do you learn there?
Yes, my country is filled to the brim with all sorts of cranks and simple-minded folk who believe in magical fairy tales, especially the bible.
Religion classes are not about telling fairy tells, but about telling narrow minded people about religions of other people in other nations in other parts of the world.
Obviously you never learned anything about Shinto, Hinduism, Zaratustra, Yezidi, Bush Man religions, Anoriginies, Hawaiian or Vikings/Norse/Teutons or Roman or greek or Egyptian or Buddhism (insert random "nation").
The bible is riddled with errors,
That is the wrong approach.
The bible is a collection of writings of various authors and we don't even know who or which groups made that "collection" to form one book from it.
What you likely mean are: unscientific claims and contradictions from "chapter" to "chapter".
It helps to read an original bible instead of King Gorges version or the various american ones.
P.S. ... but again: if you want to argue about "religious" stuff, you should know what you are talking about. You don't.
I'm an Atheist
P.P.S.
My previous post was about if the earth is flat, or a sphere: your idea that only in resent history people figured that the earth is a sphere, is wrong. I don't know about Aboriginees or Bush Men, but I'm pretty sure any sea faring nation knew it as soon as they went to see the sea.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... ... but anyway ... same principle.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... -- that article is very bad as a Kamal was mostly used for land signs and not stars
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
The definition of Sin is what the ancient Christians defined it.
Not what the Vatikan does.
Seems pretty fuckin' clear to me. Sin is defined as "an offense against god".
But you made several citations that show it is not. I don't get you.
Most of your links are simply sermons from priests ... their interpretation.
The original meaning of Sin is "missing the mark". Not offending god. Unless you consider not living up to someones expectations is an offense to that guy.
Like you shoot at a target with your arrow or gun, you either say: hit/score or miss/failed. Sin means "miss/failed". That is all.
Probably the translations from Aramaic to Greek to Coptic to Latin to Saxon to English lost its meaning?
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
What I know is that they're all self-professed atheists, and they're happy to identify as such. According to christian dogma, atheists go to Hell for the sin of not believing.
Maybe they'll all change their minds at your funeral, and you'll be like lolwut?
Where specifically is masturbation proclaimed in Genesis or Leviticus as being sin??
The story in Genesis 38:8-10 is not about masturbation but about a man fulfilling his legal duty to carry on the family's name and refusing to do that.
> True Christian vs non true Christian is arguing semantics.
Incorrect.
1. Claiming I'm the pope doesn't make me one. Hijacking a term by some people doesn't make the claim magically valid.
2. The **only** true Christian was Yeshua. He specifically said that "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven." and "Watch out for false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ferocious wolves."
Clearly we have a group of followers who aren't true Christians.
3. Where specifically did Jesus preach about masturbation being sinful or hating gays?
4. **Everything else** is words **by men**.
I mean, a language is an encoding of copyrightable works, not the copyrightable works themselves.
If they wanted to protect a kind of encoding, shouldn't Paramount have applied for a patent on it before publishing a multitude of books encouraging people to use it?
"We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley
If I had modpoints, I'd 'off-topic' the bit about the bible.
Came to read about Klingon, not scroll through 100 comments about religion.
Aside from nerds, obviously - Linguists.
There was a study on childhood acquisition of language where two parents raised their children as German native speakers despite neither parent being Germanic themselves - all as some bizarre experiment.
Well the advantage of learning German would be that you could travel to Europe and speak with 'real' people, I guess. But then a kid might equally grow up to attend PAX or Comicon and have 'real' conversations in Klingon.
The definition of Sin is what the ancient Christians defined it.
Not what the Vatikan does.
LOL, why don't you take that up with the Pope and see what he says? Or do your opinion outweigh the Pope's?
Too funny- you religious fanatics ALWAYS seem to have your very own interpretation of what the various bible verses mean and what the commandments mean and what god really means...and every one of you lives in your own little Truth Bubble. Too fucking funny!!
But of course you are privy to The One True Interpretation and all those other people- they're just wrong. LOL!!
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Obviously you never learned anything about Shinto, Hinduism, Zaratustra, Yezidi, Bush Man religions, Anoriginies, Hawaiian or Vikings/Norse/Teutons or Roman or greek or Egyptian or Buddhism (insert random "nation").
It's like, super cool how you think you can read my mind and know what I have and haven't learned. :)
-
The bible is a collection of writings of various authors and we don't even know who or which groups made that "collection" to form one book from it.
The bible was written by ignorant, Bronze-Age sheep herders who lived in the desert, and most of them had never been more than about 10 miles from where they were born. That's why it's so chock-full of ridiculous errors.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
There's almost no mention of homosexuality in the Bible either way.
I know. You know what Jesus said about homosexuals? Nothing, not a single word.
-
The Quran, I don't know about what's written, but it's always the Muslims, not the Lutherans, who murdered a few more homosexuals this week by throwing them off buildings.
Be honest- the Lutherans and Christians and Baptists and all the other denominations would do the same thing if they thought they could get away with it, like they did for centuries. They can't anymore, but they did, and they would again if they got the chance.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Where specifically is masturbation proclaimed in Genesis or Leviticus as being sin??
The story in Genesis 38:8-10 is not about masturbation but about a man fulfilling his legal duty to carry on the family's name and refusing to do that.
Well then we better email the Pope and tell him to straighten this out ASAP.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Maybe they'll all change their minds at your funeral, and you'll be like lolwut?
I plan on outliving them all, and statistically speaking, I've got a decent shot at doing so. :)
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
As the story goes she lost interest because the inventors of the language hadn't needed to translate everyday words like breakfast, or toy, or clothes or any number of thoughts a child might need to relate. Even a language without too much self-consistency (like English) can be adopted by a child, but one can't be surprised when it's abandoned in favour of a language that everyone but one's parents speaks.
The plaintiff has to prove that Mark Okrand's work is expressive rather than functional. Since there are many languages, and they use different words and grammar for the same things, the plaintiff may indeed be able to prove this, and they may be able to assert copyright. But it will be interesting seeing them try to do this.
Bruce Perens.
First versus second language is not really an issue if the child is young enough. And after a certain age children will speak the same way as their peers in the same age group no matter what their parents try to do.
Yhea, what a company to spend eternity with; can't wait! [no sarcasm; my list is similar though it begins with Terry Pratchett].
However, as far as I remember the Pascal wager is [also] logically unsound to begin with. Because its presumption is that we do not know if god exists or not but in the body of the argument [which is supposed to prove you that it is better to be a believer regardless] he says that god will not like [approve] of non-believers. So how do we know that god likes believers? Suddenly a premiss is used that is not specified at the beginning of the argument, quite the contrary - we say we don't know if god exists let alone know his opinion about believers and non-believers. So the argument is false. BTW, I read the above refute in a philosophy book...
The Bible also never mentions homosexuality, which isn't surprising, as the idea probably didn't exist at the time. What is mentioned is the (homo-)sexual act of 2 men lying together as a man and a women do. This is, in context, taken to mean some kind of penetrative act (anal) by one man with another. It says nothing about the sexual attraction of either participant.
In fairness, his wife spoke English with the kid, and he stopped when the kid was clearly rejecting the Klingon.
(Though also, that would probably have happened with other cases of one parent speaking one language to the kid, while understanding the dominant language used by everyone else. No reason to bother learning a language that is not necessary for communicating with anyone, including the person speaking it.)
http://s.ai - http://s.ai/foia - http://s.ai/tsa/legal - https://patreon.com/saizai
Yes. (Not that I think they could have gotten a patent, but that's another story.)
http://s.ai - http://s.ai/foia - http://s.ai/tsa/legal - https://patreon.com/saizai
..and if they heard you call them "idiots", they would kill you where you stand.
Yeah, I saw that later. The summary looked a bit weird regarding this.
Raising kids bilingual in a dominated environment works easy if both parents always talk their primary language, e.g. a friend of mine is more or less german and his wife is french. She speaks always french, to him and the kids. He speaks always german to his wife and the kids.
It is a bit weird if you see a couple talking to each other using different languages but the kids speak perfect french now (the dominant language) and with age of 7 to 11 speak better german than their german teacher in school.
A friend of mine learned 4 languages as child around 1936 - 1942, he lived as the child of an archeology couple in what is now Iraq, until it got occupied by british troops during WWII.
He learned english, german, an arabic dialect and farsi, an persian dialect. However, until he was about 6 he never spoke a single word. The parents thought he was mute.
At certain event, the persian cook sent him to tell his mother that she needs more potatoes from the cellar, from that moment on he spoke all 4 languages fluently and talked as if never anything was wrong.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
So, how do you say "Streisand Effect" in Klingon?
https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
No, the reason it is choke full with ridiculous errors is:
The got introduced by various translations from and to languages that are not related.
E.g. "Rather goes a full loaded camel through (a^H) the Needle Ear than a rich goes into heaven": sounds ridiculous unless you know that there is a small doorway in Jerusalem which is so small that camels get unloaded in front of it and reloaded after it has passed. The doorway still exists.
Or you might know that "Jesus was walking on the water" is a figurative speech for "walking along the beach". It is a wrong translation from Aramaic into Greek.
The bible was written by ignorant, Bronze-Age sheep herders who lived in the desert, and most of them had never been more than about 10 miles from where they were born.
And nevertheless the captivity of the Jews in Babylon, their flight to Egypt and their flight from Egypt to what now is Israel: is a historical fact. So plenty of them obviously moved far far farer than you think. Even during the stone ages traders traveled from east Mediterranean to the far north west of europe. Many of them made the journey multiple times back and forth during their lifetime.
Like salt routes or silk routes at those time we had trade routes for honey, flint stone, gems and other stuff. There are plenty of bronze age men who were smarter than me, e.g. Ramses, Hamurabi to name just two. And looking at your ignorance I assume they were smarter than you, too :D
The bible is a religious work, and granted in comparison to other religions, not a very good one. As you seem relatively uninterested into religions as a part of culture, why don't you do what a true atheist would do: simply ignore it. Who cares in what people who are infected by the brain disease called religion need or do to justify their believes?
If I was religious and someone comes and explains me why everything I believe in is wrong I would be very pissed. As an Atheist I'm already pretty pissed if one tries to convince me to come to his "religious classes".
Perhaps you should take a meditation class ;D to calm down. And please don't think that meditation is a form of religion.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
There is no definition in the bible that I'm aware of that makes a sin an offense or insult to god.
After all the catholics invented the "confession" which relieves you from all Sins you are confessing. That is either an indication that god is not offended and priest can give absolution. Or it is one of the ridiculous contradictions you are talking about.
Interpretation and all those other people- they're just wrong
No, my point is: that are interpretations as you correctly worded, hence they are not truths. Hence your conclusion Sin is an affront or offense to god can't be right.
However there are "capital sins" perhaps they are considered offenses to god? But a quick googling dos not say so.
My claim a few posts back that Sin only means "missing the target" however you can easy google and get dozens of hits. Likely it is even explained on the english Wikipedia article :D on the german it is.
However, lets stop here ... or at least soon.
Does not really make sense that I as an Atheist teach you about your misconceptions of christian religion(s), after all: I have only basic knowledge about it.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Or you might know that "Jesus was walking on the water" is a figurative speech for "walking along the beach". It is a wrong translation from Aramaic into Greek.
how do you square that with there being a whole fucking story about his disciples doing the same thing, and then falling in the water when they lost faith that they could walk on top of it?
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Reality is not a democracy. A bunch of people believing in something is not sufficient to declare its existence.
A lot of people believe in consensus reality, and then go on to believe that they can change the world by believing hard enough. But that's an incredibly arrogant belief if you accept the first part, because you have to believe that your belief is stronger than that of billions of other people. Mind-boggling.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
And have you considered how many inhuman creatures will outnumber humanity in heaven?
They don't go to heaven, because they don't have souls! Only humans were created with souls, everything else on the planet is here for our use and/or amusement! Haven't you read the Bible? It's a blank check to do whatever the fuck you want.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
1. Claiming I'm the pope doesn't make me one.
Every MAN, WOMAN, AND CHILD on this planet is a CERTIFIED POPE
2. The **only** true Christian was Yeshua. He specifically said that
What he specifically never said was that he was literally the son of God, at least, until Saul got ahold of the bible and fucked it all up. He also said that we would do greater deeds even than his, but we're still all hung up on waiting for him to come back instead of getting shit done on our own.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
No, the reason it is choke full with ridiculous errors is:
The got introduced by various translations from and to languages that are not related.
I see....so the whole bit about god making Adam out of dirt, and then making Eve out of one of his ribs, and then a talking snake in a magical garden convincing her to eat a forbidden fruit which had the effect of making us all mortal...that's all just because it was mistranslated?
What the fuck did they translate it from? Klingon?
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
There is no definition in the bible that I'm aware of that makes a sin an offense or insult to god.
There's no definition in the bible that says the Earth is a sphere, yet you insist it says exactly that. The head poobah of the Catholic Church says that sin is an offense to god, so maybe you and he can get together and work it out.
-
Like you shoot at a target with your arrow or gun, you either say: hit/score or miss/failed. Sin means "miss/failed".
You've failed completely at trying to prove or show that this is what "sin" actually means.
-
Hence your conclusion Sin is an affront or offense to god can't be right.
It's not my conclusion- I'm quoting verbatim from the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
-
However there are "capital sins" perhaps they are considered offenses to god? But a quick googling dos not say so.
That is exactly what a "quick googling" says. That's how I found the Catechism of the Catholic Church, which I quoted.
-
However, lets stop here ... or at least soon. ... after all: I have only basic knowledge about it.
I think it's clear that you don't even have basic knowledge about it, since nearly everything you've said has been dead wrong.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
This is a mere syntactic fault with pascal's wager. You can replace the initial assumption with "whether a god that punished non-believers exists".
The fault can also be easily explained - he might be thinking of the God that is widely believed in his culture. Otherwise more faults can be found, like whether the God is capable of punishing non-believers, whether God knows if someone is a real believer or not, etc.
All these faults are not applicable because it is "widely" believed that God is omnipotent, omniscient, and loves sycophants.
Bingo Dictionary - Pragmatist, n. A myopic idealist.
No by current christian belief, ensoulment begins at conception.
How human is a fetus that never had parents, has no language, nationality, no experience at all with what it is to be human.
Many women miscarry multiple times in their lives without even realizing it. Miscarriages greatly outnumber live births.
She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
Klingons would not play a game that is so ... sedate.
As for applause, you are still alive - you would wish for more?
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
There's no definition in the bible that says the Earth is a sphere
There is o definition that the earth is flat either. So what is your point.
The head poobah of the Catholic Church says that sin is an offense to god, so maybe you and he can get together and work it out. :D Oh noes, they replaced him by an argentinian Spaniard! Inquisition is back!
No, the single link you provided says that 'some head of the Catholic Church' once said it is. No idea about the current head of the church. Neither have you nor have I. But he is german I believe, I could ask him
Then again, who cares about the Polytheistic Sekt called Catholic? There are plenty of other Christian churches that don't claim this. And the Churches before Catholicism developed don't claim this neither.
You've failed completely at trying to prove or show that this is what "sin" actually means.
Why should I "proof" it? You can google it. Verifying stuff is called studying. Performing your own Studies gives you an Education.
Proves you only use when you want to win an argument, especially in court.
I have no argument to win. Either you check my claim or you don't. That is up to you.
As a hint for googleing: don't quote stuff / links by just looking on the result page. Read the linked page. Because if you search for "is Angelo gay" you will get hits like "Martin claimed Angelo is gay" but "Angelo defeated that claim by showing his lovely wife and beautiful kids"
Also it is helpful not just to read the first article, but also others :D because -- you know -- the top three link might support your position and he next 25 reject it.
I think it's clear that you don't even have basic knowledge about it, since nearly everything you've said has been dead wrong. :D ... if they now finally admit that the "be fertile and rule the world" was figurative and that prevention is fine and on top of that that sex is an act of creation and that it can't be wrong or be ashamed about because "god created the world" then it is finally a religion that is human friendly and makes some sense. Regardless how "strangely" it was founded.
No it is not. If you want to prove me wrong, prove it
And a singel quote from a long dead pope is not a proof. There is no current doctrine that "sin" means "offense to god" (I already hinted that you read the english wikipedia article). Actually the current Catholic "doctrines" are quite/relatively relaxed
I think it's clear that you don't even have basic knowledge about it /. poster, that does not bother me :D
As long as I know roughly 100 times more than the average
How much you know I have no idea, as you are only spreading hate and seem not to be able to calm down and write a true and coherent sentence. Or calm down and actually comprehend what I write.
I understand that you have "trouble" with the church or with religions. Probably bad Childhood. Hence the topic of this thread.
As long as you have trouble with religions, you are not an Atheist, but someone seeking for an alternative faith.
So make up your mind. Seek a religion you can follow or stop bothering about religions. And if you stop bothering about them but still want to participate in intellectual discussions, you unfortunately have to study those religions. Instead of cherry picking arguments.
I don't study religions, but I like to read folklore ... e.g. Edda or Vedic mythology.
How many nations/tribes on the world do you know that report about an mythological flood that nearly extinguished all mankind? Hm? Ark of Noah? And then any other tribe/nation?
You don't know? Wow ... sure, all those tribes except a few selected ones were still in the "wood age" and not even bronze age savages not moving more than 10 miles away from the home ... as you claimed in a post above.
Nevertheless we
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Wow, how dumb are you?
That is obviously a "creation myth" every "religion" or nation has that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
https://asabharwal.com/explori...
http://www.crystalinks.com/mao...
http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/crea...
http://www.viking-mythology.co...
etc. just some random links.
If you can not cope with the fact that ancient civilizations somehow mystified their origins ... then perhaps you should chose a different hobby?
Probably fishing? I was told sitting at some water with a fishing pole and pondering how the world works is a quite relaxing thing. You could also try meditation. But as you occur to me to be an angry man: what about rock climbing? As soon as you climb (not in a hall obviously) you are one on one with your environment, does not really matter how difficult. You have only the rock, the sky the wind and if you are advanced enough to "relax" and "meditate" a bit while climbing: bees, eagles, falcons, swallows ... nature. When you are on top of your climbing route you will realize: for hours you have not thought about anything at all. Except for putting gear into the wand, moving forward, looking into the valley, at the sun, at the sky ... and realizing: it is just you. Regardless how angry you are, you can not fight the rock ...
Probably it cures your anger and hate?
I dont get what is wrong in your eyes with the Adam and Eve myth. It is a nice story and every child know: it is just a story.
Probably you believed it was true when you were a young child and are now ashamed and feel abused.
Sorry, when it was first told to me at age of 4 I knew it was "a story" and not anything other. Probably that is why my mother called me "smart".
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
how do you square that with there being a whole fucking story about his disciples doing the same thing, and then falling in the water when they lost faith that they could walk on top of it?
We/I don't know as no one actually knows what they tried to do. Perhaps walking on a plank or something.
As mentioned before: the King George bible is a extremely bad translation. The relevant passages once where linked to me here on /. and they make no sense at all.
The fact that "walking on the water" is a mistranslation I learned in school in religion classes shortly before becoming age of 14. It is actually undisputed. My teacher was a protestant priest who spoke latin, greek and aramaic fluently.
So, a man of faith admitted that some stories are just an "allegory" and explains there original meaning ... why should I not believe in that, in the sense of trust that he is right?
This is the first hit on a google search:
http://www.exitmundi.nl/bible/...
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
I dont get what is wrong in your eyes with the Adam and Eve myth. It is a nice story and every child know: it is just a story.
Not according to the bible and the Catholic church, they claim it is 100% true and it's to be taken literally.
If you don't see what's wrong with that then I probably can't find a way to make you understand. The fact that it's also taught to countless children as the literal truth is probably also something you don't understand as being wrong.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Not according to the bible and the Catholic church, they claim it is 100% true and it's to be taken literally.
Actually they don't, since over 100 years.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Not according to the bible and the Catholic church, they claim it is 100% true and it's to be taken literally.
Actually they don't, since over 100 years.
So the Catholic church says the Catechism of the Catholic Church isn't to be taken literally? I think you and the Pope have a difference of opinion on this, cuz I'm pretty sure he stands by it,
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Funny how everyone keeps comparing the Muslims today with the Christians of centuries ago, as if that somehow excuses something.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Funny how everyone keeps comparing the Muslims today with the Christians of centuries ago, as if that somehow excuses something.
Yep. Their "but we're not the ones doing it now" excuse is pretty ballsy.
Just a day ago, the Pope, the leader of the largest pedophile ring in history, came out and called for "severe punishment" for child abusers (!!) casually neglecting to mention a single word about the centuries of abuse that his own church has committed.
Pope Francis said, “We must defend the children and we must severely punish the abusers." Yeah, great idea- how about you start with your own clergy?
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
It would have been fine if they were raising the kid in the Klingon Empire.
Slow down, cowboy! It has been 4 hours since you last posted. You must wait another few hours.
Stop running in circles with arguments that don't belong to the discussion.
Does the pope claim the earth is flat? Was made 6000 years ago? No? See ... but you likely don't want to see.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Does the pope claim the earth is flat? Was made 6000 years ago?
No, not this pope, but all of the previous ones did until very recently.
And the only reason this one doesn't is because now too many people know that the Earth isn't flat. Even after the majority of people knew this they STILL claimed it was, and they still claimed the Earth was 6,000 years old until relatively recently. Many of the current crop of priests and preachers still do.
They still feel they have the right to tell you what to do with your own dick and whether or not you should decide if you want to use birth control. They still feel they have the right to tell you who you can and cannot marry, and your feelings be damned.
Sure, go ahead and ignore 2,000 years of willful ignorance and just focus on the last ten years of somewhat rational behavior.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Not according to the bible and the Catholic church, they claim it is 100% true and it's to be taken literally.
As a Catholic, I challenge you to come up with proof of that statement. I have never been taught that the bible should be entirely read as literal truth. There are many places in the bible that are stories, so not meant to be taken as fact. Adam and Eve is one of these stories, if it was literally true, who recorded the story?
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
As a Catholic, I challenge you to come up with proof of that statement. I have never been taught that the bible should be entirely read as literal truth.
Who cares what you've been taught? Lots of people have been taught that it's the literal truth. What makes you right and them wrong? Visit any of the "old school" Catholic schools and you'll find that's exactly what they're being taught.
-
There are many places in the bible that are stories, so not meant to be taken as fact.
Many, MANY people would disagree vehemently, even violently with you on this point. There are plenty of schools that teach that the bible is absolutely factual and is the "inerrant word of god". So again, how is it that you're "right" while they're "wrong"?
-
Adam and Eve is one of these stories, if it was literally true, who recorded the story?
Researchers think that about 40 different authors wrote the Bible over a period of 1,500 years. The story goes that the writers wrote what they did because (supposedly) they were "inspired by the Holy Spirit" (see 2 Timothy 3:16-17). That's how fundies get out of needing an eyewitness to the purported events in the Garden of Eden.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Show anywhere that the Catholic church (what you wrote!) teaches that the bible is absolute fact?
Was the good samaritan an actual person, or was it just a story Jesus told to illustrate a point?
Not according to the bible and the Catholic church, they claim it is 100% true and it's to be taken literally.
That is your statement I had issue with, please, show where the Catholic church claims that the bible is 100% true and should be taken literally.
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Show anywhere that the Catholic church (what you wrote!) teaches that the bible is absolute fact?
Instead, how about you show me where the Catholic church admits that the bible has errors, or states that it is not fact, or says that it is not the "inerrant word of god". Can't do it, can you?
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
https://jhaines6.wordpress.com...
http://www.nowtheendbegins.com...
As, in the Catholic Church, the Pope dictates the law, here are some of his quotes as the head of the church. Next?
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
The pope also stated that “God does not exist", so who can believe a word of what that old man in a dress says?
He also said, “There is no Catholic God", yet he's the leader of the Catholic church, so obviously he's babbling.
http://www.novusordowatch.org/...
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Did you actually read what he said, or are you just spouting off?
He said that there is not one God, but the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. This is consistent with Catholic teachings. Where did he stray from the Catechism?
APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
Seems pretty clear to me. Maybe he's the one that need to clarify things.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
... He learned english, german, an arabic dialect and farsi, an persian dialect. However, until he was about 6 he never spoke a single word. The parents thought he was mute.
At certain event, the persian cook sent him to tell his mother that she needs more potatoes from the cellar, from that moment on he spoke all 4 languages fluently and talked as if never anything was wrong.
Some kids do this, particularly if they have siblings that "translate" their needs for them, so they don't really have to talk at first.