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Gas Delivery Startups Want to Fill Up Your Car Anywhere, But It Might Not Be Legal (bloomberg.com)

Eric Newcomer, reporting for Bloomberg: A new crop of startups are trying to make gas stations obsolete. Tap an app, and they'll bring the gas to you, filling up your car while you're at work or at home. Filld, WeFuel, Yoshi, Purple and Booster Fuels have started operating in a few cities including San Francisco, Los Angeles, Palo Alto, Nashville, Tennessee, and Atlanta, Georgia. But officials in some of those cities say that driving around in a pickup truck with hundreds of gallons of gasoline might not be safe. "It is not permitted," said Lt. Jonathan Baxter, a spokesman for the San Francisco fire department, adding that if San Francisco residents see any companies fueling vehicles in the city, they should call the fire department. "We haven't talked to them. I don't know about that. It's news to me," said Nick Alexander, co-founder of Yoshi. "You can never ask for permission because no one will give it," said Chris Aubuchon, the chief executive officer at Filld. The Los Angeles Fire Department said it's drafting a policy around gasoline delivery. "Our current fire code does not allow this process; however, we are exploring a way this could be allowed with some restrictions," said Capt. Daniel Curry, a spokesman for the city's fire department.

31 of 460 comments (clear)

  1. I can see this as an environmental disaster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Gas stations have environmental controls to keep fuel from leaking into the environment...

    1. Re:I can see this as an environmental disaster by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sure, but with Web 3.0, you don't ask for permission or worry about regulations, and do whatever you want, no matter how harmful. It's the Eric Cartman school of business, and it seems to be very popular these days.

    2. Re:I can see this as an environmental disaster by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And we don't have to have a fair meter or even hazmat endorsement

    3. Re:I can see this as an environmental disaster by rsborg · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Sure, but with Web 3.0, you don't ask for permission or worry about regulations, and do whatever you want, no matter how harmful.
      It's the Eric Cartman school of business, and it seems to be very popular these days.

      It's the "Uber guide to evading pesky governmental regulation" approach - you just buy "activists" and lobby local governments to keep the hounds at bay until your service gains critical mass and can't be legislated away.
      http://www.politico.com/story/...

      Does corruption by any other name stink as strongly?

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    4. Re:I can see this as an environmental disaster by rubycodez · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Glad you asked, the normal shutoff failed at a pump I was using and gasoline started spilling onto the ground, and it was newer pump without the manual shutoff level. Finally saw kill switch for the whole island of pumps....four gallons plus on the ground. Guy running station saw the mess and killed ALL the pumps and fire department came. Fun times.

      You have no idea how the tanker trucks are restricted and designed, do you? The "basic standards" completely prohibit what this company is doing, you can't carry and deliver liquid fuel in *anything* you please, nor to *anywhere* you please, check your state laws your state fire marshal would arrest your ass!

    5. Re:I can see this as an environmental disaster by unrtst · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Sure, but with Web 3.0, you don't ask for permission or worry about regulations, ...

      How is this not something that already has regulations? Sure, this may be happening at greater volumes, but AAA and tow trucks and the lot have been delivering gas for ages! On the larger end of the scale, tankers have been doing it for ages to gas stations. So, any regulation they add regarding this in particular will have to say "hauling more than N gallons of gas, and less than N (or some class/certification thing to exclude tankers)".

      I doubt it's carte-blance illegal today. Heck, just drive a big truck w/ two normal tanks, and pump from one of them. Plenty of large pickups have backup tanks, and that should fulfill all the on-the-road safety rules already. Where's the problem?

    6. Re:I can see this as an environmental disaster by bws111 · · Score: 4, Informative

      Have you ever actually BEEN to a gas station? Did you ever wonder 'why is that concrete slab there'? The whole area is usually asphalt, but where the pumps (and where the tanker delivers) is concrete. And that concrete usually has a pattern of grooves around the perimeter. Do you think that is just a nice design they all happened to like? The concrete is there for three reasons: prevent spills (which DO happen) from seeping into the ground, keep spills in one place (the grooves) so it can be properly cleaned up, and because gasoline is incredibly damaging to asphalt.

      When you are done looking at the ground, look up. See all those nozzles sticking out of the canopy? More fancy design? No. Automatic fire suppression. Can you think of any reason THAT might be a good idea?

      Yes, gas station leaks do sometimes happen. And who is responsible when they do? The property owner. Just think of how happy parking lot owners are going to be when some jackass not only damages the lot with a spill, but leaves them with contaminated property THEY are responsible for. No sane parking lot owner would ever allow something stupid like this in their lot.

      And where did you get the idiotic idea that unburned fuel comes out the tailpipe? That stuff you see dripping is water, not fuel. If unburned fuel is coming out something is seriously wrong, and an overheated converter and possible vehicle fire are coming shortly.

    7. Re:I can see this as an environmental disaster by Higaran · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I have a fleet of 20 semi-truck, and I keep an old tanker in my yard, I call various fuel companies and they will come and fill my tanker with 3000 gallons, no problem. I've been getting fuel this way for over 10 years now, so I don't see this as much different, as long as they guy making the delivery is trained properly then there shouldn't be an issue. Yes I've had stuff happen, like one time when they were filling his hose decided to pop and spilled maybe 20-30 gallons of fuel before he could shut the pump off, they carry enough pads and blocker bags to clean up small messes, or hold back a big mess long enough for someone to come and clean it up properly.

    8. Re:I can see this as an environmental disaster by Hognoxious · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Heck, just drive a big truck w/ two normal tanks, and pump from one of them.

      Yeah, those are proper tanks. Competent mechanics carry fuel in proper jerry-cans.

      This service isn't going to be like that. It's going to be retards on mopeds carrying the fuel in old wine bottles in a rucksack.

      --
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    9. Re:I can see this as an environmental disaster by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 5, Informative

      The actual model being used is "we require stationary gas retailers to be licensed, regulated, and inspected and are applying the same standard to mobile refueling."

      One is legally regulated (already in place) the other is "oh shit, that is something current laws don't account for" retroactive regulation for something that isn't stationary.

      From your quoted article

      “Our current fire code does not allow this process; however, we are exploring a way this could be allowed with some restrictions,”

      Which is utter bullshit. Take a look here (hint, already legal) http://www.transferflow.com/fu...

      With a Transfer Flow refueling tank, you don’t have to guess! Our refueling tanks are Department of Transportation (DOT) legal to carry and transfer gas, diesel, ethanol, methanol, kerosene and jet fuel in all 50 U.S. states. Having a DOT legal refueling tank from Transfer Flow means you won’t get red tagged and fined by your Highway Patrol for carrying an illegal fuel tank in the bed of your truck. Click here to see our Special Permit from the Department of Transportation.

      Good luck preventing that which already exists, simply because it disrupts existing markets.

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    10. Re:I can see this as an environmental disaster by godefroi · · Score: 3, Informative

      Legal to carry does not mean legal to distribute commercially. You'll need additional permits in each state to do that, and I bet they don't have them.

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  2. It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia did it first! by t4eXanadu · · Score: 4, Funny

    When I read the headline, I immediately thought of this:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

  3. What they mean is.. by cyn1c77 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    What they say:

    "Our current fire code does not allow this process; however, we are exploring a way this could be allowed with some restrictions," said Capt. Daniel Curry

    What they mean:

    "We will soon let you know how much we are going to tax your new business opportunity!"

    1. Re:What they mean is.. by FireballX301 · · Score: 5, Informative

      Call me a statist all you like, but I am 100% for regulation of the equivalent of gas tanker trucks meandering neighborhoods and commercial parks topping off people's cars, and having taxes on that service in order to fund the regulation, because I don't want to see some 20-something communications major driving around every day with a U-Haul full of jerry cans tied down with bungee cords. I say this even though I am 100% behind having the service available, because I'd find it amazingly useful.

      The alternative is letting it go unregulated, watching some fly by night operation have their delivery driver explode along with all his cargo, the execs of the company 'vanishing', a media shitstorm, and the industry being literally banned.

    2. Re:What they mean is.. by Luthair · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Even if its not a bunch of jerry cans as the other guy suggests, there is some engineering to a big tank not only for crashes & spillage but simply to avoid the fluid acting like a battering ram when the vehicle brakes.

    3. Re:What they mean is.. by Registered+Coward+v2 · · Score: 3

      Call me a statist all you like, but I am 100% for regulation of the equivalent of gas tanker trucks meandering neighborhoods and commercial parks topping off people's cars, and having taxes on that service in order to fund the regulation, because I don't want to see some 20-something communications major driving around every day with a U-Haul full of jerry cans tied down with bungee cords. I say this even though I am 100% behind having the service available, because I'd find it amazingly useful.

      While I also think it is useful some regulation is clearly needed. One problem I see is how do you overcome someone else's stupidity? For example, people know you don't smoke near a gas pump, but someone walking around the corner with a lit cigarette could easily and unknowingly flick it near where you have gas fumes; so some sort of vapor capture system is a must. In addition, the fuel storage and handling equipment must have some minimum safety standard to meet to be used. Portable fuel trucks exist and are in use at airports everywhere so the design standards are already known and just need to be applied to a new use. Driver training, as you point out, is critical as well. This idea could be a lot more disruptive than people anticipated...

      --
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    4. Re:What they mean is.. by LWATCDR · · Score: 4, Insightful

      There is the question of vapor leaking. Unburned hydrocarbons aka gas fumes contribute to smog. They are rather nasty. That is the reason that cars since the 1960s have had carbon canisters and PCV valves. They were some of the first population controls and made a huge improvement in emissions for almost no cost or impact on performance. In areas with air quality problems gas pumps will often have a capture device that will capture the gas fumes when you fill up your car.
      I am sure that they are mandatory in California.

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    5. Re:What they mean is.. by FireballX301 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Regulations are an attempt to avoid tragedy of the commons/race to the bottom type scenarios. Why buy expensive ass properly sealed and insulated tanker trucks when I can just toss cheap plastic jerry cans into the back of a shitty toyota pickup, just like Ethiopia? For the three weeks the guy with jerry cans does business before a 'tragic accident' occurs, he can significantly undercut the guy who's doing things cleanly and safely, and once things do go boom, the guy who did things right eats the bill while the guy who cheaps out either escapes to the Cayman islands or gets cooked by his own gasoline.

      For every honest businessman who wants to do good by their customers, there's a bunch of shady assholes looking to make a quick buck, and no amount of pretending the bad actors don't exist will actually make them disappear.

    6. Re:What they mean is.. by safetyinnumbers · · Score: 4, Funny

      You were never a teen-aged boy, were you?
      Cigarettes make absolutely lousy ignition sources.

      Well you clearly never watch any action movies, do you?

  4. Re:Linux Foundation job interview question by chaboud · · Score: 3, Funny

    Yoga?

  5. FillD? by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · · Score: 4, Funny

    I'm going to start a competitor named FillDD. The two D's are for a "double-dose of pumpin".

  6. The big problem by hackertourist · · Score: 4, Interesting

    with pumping gasoline is the spillage. In the Netherlands, all gas stations are required to have non-porous paving to make sure spills don't end up in the ground.

    The other problem is that it's inefficient. Instead of people filling up at the next station they come across, some guy has to drive everywhere to fill up one customer at a time.

  7. Make gas stations obsolete? by damn_registrars · · Score: 4, Interesting

    A new crop of startups are trying to make gas stations obsolete.

    Where then are they getting the gas from? If we're talking about pickup truck beds full of (large containers of) gasoline I would expect they are still filling them at gas stations. They are then just up-charging the people who are paying for it for their own cars. The gas stations are still selling just as much gas, and in fact might do better as this process could involve more consumption.

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  8. Badly written article by gurps_npc · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Look, OBVIOUSLY it is possible to get permission to legally drive a vehicle around full of gasoline. That's how the gasoline stations get their gasoline. They usually need special tested equipment designed to carry hazardous liquids - and the license to drive said equipment.

    It is also obviously legal to fill a car with gasoline at places other than gas stations - people that run out of gas do this all the time using a one gallon container.

    There would have to be a specific law prohibiting this particular job.

    Also this business is a STUPID idea. There is always a premium for delivery and for the premium for a delivery of a hazardous liquid should be so high as to make this a financially stupid idea. Gasoline stations are plentiful, on roads, normal people never run out of it and don't need the minor time savings of delivery.

    --
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  9. Translation by PvtVoid · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "You can never ask for permission because no one will give it"

    Translation:

    "We are fully aware that our business model violates multiple safety and environmental laws. But we're an app, so fuck you."

  10. uber drivers as well? by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 4, Funny

    Do you realy want to be in a uber that is also a tanker truck?

  11. Re:Forget about security by PvtVoid · · Score: 5, Informative

    Granted, I can see startups trying to put a plastic water tank on the back of a pickup and call it the same thing

    Ding! From TFA:

    Purple has a fleet of about 80 cars driving around Los Angeles, San Diego, Orange County and Seattle with up to a half-dozen five-gallon gas canisters in the trunk.

    Are they fucking insane?

  12. much does it cost to get drivers with CDL hazmat by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 3, Insightful

    much does it cost to get drivers with an CDL with hazmat and full insurance vs some uber where they don't even have the CDL and the insurance has time gaps.

  13. Electric Envy by Comboman · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The only reason this craziness exists is because some entitled twit sees his workmate with a Telsa charging his car at work and thinks, "hey, why should he get to charge his car at work and not me?".

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  14. Re:Could work by dgatwood · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They don't typically whip out a hose and start pouring out pints, though.

    Tow trucks do this all the time. In some places, the police do, too. It's hard to come up with a clear reason why one truck carrying twenty properly filled, properly made gas cans is that much less safe than twenty trucks carrying one.

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  15. Regulation straw-man alert by rsborg · · Score: 3, Informative

    We already have a national disaster waiting to happen.

    Millions of untrained laypersons fuel their vehicles, and often other people's vehicles, unlicensed and unregulated.

    Hate to disrupt your bubble, but that shit is all regulated to hell. It's on specific property, and those facilities have to get inspected frequently.
    So yeah, it is regulated... already.

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