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Gas Delivery Startups Want to Fill Up Your Car Anywhere, But It Might Not Be Legal (bloomberg.com)
Eric Newcomer, reporting for Bloomberg: A new crop of startups are trying to make gas stations obsolete. Tap an app, and they'll bring the gas to you, filling up your car while you're at work or at home. Filld, WeFuel, Yoshi, Purple and Booster Fuels have started operating in a few cities including San Francisco, Los Angeles, Palo Alto, Nashville, Tennessee, and Atlanta, Georgia. But officials in some of those cities say that driving around in a pickup truck with hundreds of gallons of gasoline might not be safe. "It is not permitted," said Lt. Jonathan Baxter, a spokesman for the San Francisco fire department, adding that if San Francisco residents see any companies fueling vehicles in the city, they should call the fire department. "We haven't talked to them. I don't know about that. It's news to me," said Nick Alexander, co-founder of Yoshi. "You can never ask for permission because no one will give it," said Chris Aubuchon, the chief executive officer at Filld. The Los Angeles Fire Department said it's drafting a policy around gasoline delivery. "Our current fire code does not allow this process; however, we are exploring a way this could be allowed with some restrictions," said Capt. Daniel Curry, a spokesman for the city's fire department.
Gas stations have environmental controls to keep fuel from leaking into the environment...
When I read the headline, I immediately thought of this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
What they say:
"Our current fire code does not allow this process; however, we are exploring a way this could be allowed with some restrictions," said Capt. Daniel Curry
What they mean:
"We will soon let you know how much we are going to tax your new business opportunity!"
Yoga?
I would enjoy this service!
Sometimes that extra trip to the gas station is a drag when all you want to do is go home after a long day at the office.
There must be a way to make this work with the law. Fuel deliveries to homes for heating fuel are a similar concept. Granted, the trucks are big rigs and no doubt follow a long safety checklist.
I'm going to start a competitor named FillDD. The two D's are for a "double-dose of pumpin".
They don't typically whip out a hose and start pouring out pints, though.
Security is not a problem. it can be regulated to acceptable levels. Whether these service are still economically viable after that is another matter.
Of more concern is the environmental risk of spillage. There is a reason that gas-stations have to invest in expensive measures to prevent spilled gas to leak into the ground. Those are not cheap and cannot be copied into a mobile gas-station solution.
It's called AAA.
Save Maine's economy: write stuff down. All comments are exclusively my own, not my employer.
Texaco... we now deliver!
with pumping gasoline is the spillage. In the Netherlands, all gas stations are required to have non-porous paving to make sure spills don't end up in the ground.
The other problem is that it's inefficient. Instead of people filling up at the next station they come across, some guy has to drive everywhere to fill up one customer at a time.
A new crop of startups are trying to make gas stations obsolete.
Where then are they getting the gas from? If we're talking about pickup truck beds full of (large containers of) gasoline I would expect they are still filling them at gas stations. They are then just up-charging the people who are paying for it for their own cars. The gas stations are still selling just as much gas, and in fact might do better as this process could involve more consumption.
Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
Texaco comes to you!
Cut a hole into a coconut and call it Jane.
Look, OBVIOUSLY it is possible to get permission to legally drive a vehicle around full of gasoline. That's how the gasoline stations get their gasoline. They usually need special tested equipment designed to carry hazardous liquids - and the license to drive said equipment.
It is also obviously legal to fill a car with gasoline at places other than gas stations - people that run out of gas do this all the time using a one gallon container.
There would have to be a specific law prohibiting this particular job.
Also this business is a STUPID idea. There is always a premium for delivery and for the premium for a delivery of a hazardous liquid should be so high as to make this a financially stupid idea. Gasoline stations are plentiful, on roads, normal people never run out of it and don't need the minor time savings of delivery.
excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
"You can never ask for permission because no one will give it"
Translation:
"We are fully aware that our business model violates multiple safety and environmental laws. But we're an app, so fuck you."
GrubHub already delivers Chipotle.
One of our competitors trademarked the term "hypothesis". From now on, we will call them "boneheaded ideas".
A new crop of startups are trying to make gas stations obsolete
It's called. . . the Electric Vehicle.
Think the EV is not there yet? I bet it "gets there" before "gas delivery services" ever do. . .
Sdelat' Ameriku velikoy Snova!
"It is not permitted,"
Oh really? A pickup truck with a bunch of gas cans in the bed might not be wise. But even for pickups, there are approved fueling setups.
Petrol sales is sort of a cartel. You have a market, based on your service station location. And you are given a retail price. Violate any of these agreements and your station will suddenly cease to receive deliveries. If people start buying fuel in bulk and hauling it into other market areas, established dealers will be upset. I can see where the fire departments might have a concern. Distributors violating the cartel terms might start mysteriously bursting into flames.
Have gnu, will travel.
There are the guys you're looking for:
https://flavorwire.files.wordp...
SJW's don't eliminate discrimination. They just expropriate it for themselves.
Do you realy want to be in a uber that is also a tanker truck?
Then you go to the wrong car and you get shot at before you can explain you're siphoning gas INTO the car.
If I have been able to see further than others, it is because I bought a pair of binoculars.
Long as the trucks/tankers are marked properly and reinforced enough and the drivers properly vetted.
Well having people be W2's make that more likely but if you go down the 1099 route then a lot of that can go a way.
I want the service where a drone refuels my car ... while I'm driving.
[Insert pithy quote here]
much does it cost to get drivers with an CDL with hazmat and full insurance vs some uber where they don't even have the CDL and the insurance has time gaps.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
I don't respond to AC's.
driving around in a pickup truck with hundreds of gallons of gasoline might not be safe.
Look im checking my blindspots at every intersection and im using my goddamn blinkers at every single turn so I dont understand what more you want from me. Christ. you sound just like my wife when I was shoveling cheap chinese fireworks into the passenger seat. It was a good idea 5 redbulls ago, and its gonna be an even better idea for an internet app 5 more from now.
Good people go to bed earlier.
making it easier to pollute the environment is not helping people, it's enabling an already damaging technology.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
The only reason this craziness exists is because some entitled twit sees his workmate with a Telsa charging his car at work and thinks, "hey, why should he get to charge his car at work and not me?".
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
Tow trucks do this all the time. In some places, the police do, too. It's hard to come up with a clear reason why one truck carrying twenty properly filled, properly made gas cans is that much less safe than twenty trucks carrying one.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
We already have a national disaster waiting to happen.
Millions of untrained laypersons fuel their vehicles, and often other people's vehicles, unlicensed and unregulated.
Hate to disrupt your bubble, but that shit is all regulated to hell. It's on specific property, and those facilities have to get inspected frequently.
So yeah, it is regulated... already.
Make sure everyone's vote counts: Verified Voting
We hold these Apps to be self-evident, that all Apps are created equal, that they are endowed by their Compiler with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Apps, Appity and the pursuit of Appiness.
They don't typically whip out a hose and start pouring out pints, though.
When the hazardous material is a liquid and the transport is just carrying sealed barrels to be warehoused, then they pretty much always do. There are already thousands of tanker trucks out there filling up gas stations and also gas and heating oil tanks at homes, farms, other businesses, etc. The only difference here should be that they're fueling up cars directly rather than filling a big tank that's probably buried underground. The potential for spillage while filling is really very low.
Now, in this case, they seem to be carrying around a bunch of individual gas cans. That may be less safe with more chance of spillage, but it's actually a bit hard to say. It seems like, in a major accident, a very large tank, if ruptured, would spill all of its contents, whereas a collection of individual cans would spill relatively little.
It works better as diesel, because that's not nearly as dangerous.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
Not only do they deliver fuel to your vehicle, but they wash all the windows and check the tire pressure, all in under 60 seconds!
Are YOU using the TOOL, or is the TOOL using YOU? Think about it!
After starting to work at a brand-name full-serve gas station, I have never let anyone else refuel my vehicle since.
Most gas jockeys ("Fuel Service Technicians" ?) are in a rush and honest mistakes are made. And, of course, some are jerks and do things intentionally.
During my shifts, I witnessed:
It's hard to come up with a clear reason why one truck carrying twenty properly filled, properly made gas cans is that much less safe than twenty trucks carrying one.
It's not hard at all to me. It's simple enough.
1. Even properly made gas cans can leak.
2. The probability of a gas can leaking increases the more of them you have
3. Gasoline ignites only at specific stoichiometric ratios
4. A single gas can is unlikely to reach the stoichiometric ratio, much less over a significant area
5. Multiple gas cans in a single vehicle are much more likely to reach that ratio, and over a larger area as well.
6. A 10 gallon fuel fire is bad enough, a 200 gallon fuel fire is quite another. Note, I'm not including the vehicle's fuel tank because, on consideration, it's generally pretty well protected.
7. In an auto accident, vehicle gas tanks are generally not penetrated or ignited.
8. All bets are off for canisters stacked up in the back of a pickup. See #6 about having drastically more gasoline spread around.
Honestly enough, plenty of farmers and such have permanently mounted fuel tanks in the back of their truck, with a pump even. Go with that.
I don't read AC A human right
"But officials in some of those cities say that driving around in a pickup truck with hundreds of gallons of gasoline might not be safe. "
Around here, quite a few farmers and construction workers who drive pickups have large tanks of fuel mounted on the bed behind the cab. Gasoline and diesel. It's not all that unusual to see.
/. Dissent will not be tolerated. Think like us or perish.
Do you want that to happen in your parking lot or in front of your home?
5. Multiple gas cans in a single vehicle are much more likely to reach that ratio, and over a larger area as well.
Especially after half of them have been emptied of liquid and are now air/gas-vapor mixtures.
And that cows may not be quartered in private houses in peacetime, nor in war without the owners consent.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Hazardous materials transports are restricted as to when and where they can go. Hard to bring the gas to you, if they're not allowed to drive there
Only in the SF area would someone be able to afford this... and be dumb enough to leave their gas door open.
Filld charges a delivery fee of up to $5 and then asks the same price per gallon for gas as the least expensive nearby gas station.
For most cars $5 worth of gas will get you atleast 40-60miles. If you're truly out of gas and you need this in an emergency then you should have thought about filling up before you go to the office.
If you joined AAAwith a basic membership you get free emergency fuel delivery as part of your membership. Some levels of membership even include the fuel itself for free and not just the delivery. The basic membership is about $50/year and includes towing, roadside assistance, car battery jumping etc..
Most Auto-Insurance companies also include this emergency roadside service.
It's hard to come up with a clear reason why my strawman arguement that bears no relation to the actual situation doesn't shut down all dispute.
I'm not making this up, but...Paris. You can be walking down a downtown thoroughfare like the Boul' Mich, and a mini tanker truck zips into a parking space and sets itself up as an instant filling station, complete with a big ESSENCE sign just like the conventional gas stations.
Do you think people who mow lawns all day keep running to the gas station to fill all of their equipment? Hell no, they got 20+gallon tanks of extra gas that they drag along with their equipment. I can't see how this is any different, and good luck enforcing anything in this regard without getting every landscaper from here to China pissed off. Anyway, we allow tanker trucks full of corrosive chemicals drive down any "main" street and they are so dangerous that if one of them tipped over and spilled they'd kill anyone downwind. Gasoline is not nearly as dangerous, as it is not especially good at explosive burning -- it only becomes so when it is aerosolized and hit with an electrical charge in a confined space. This is just not as dangerous as people think -- Semis have 100-gallon tanks of diesel and no one complains, most cars are 20 gallons, etc... "Explosive" gas tanks everywhere! It's not going to be any more dangerous, especially if the hauling vehicles take safety precautions that we use with other vehicles. (Plastic containers to prevent sparks if they are impacted, cages, etc...) Mostly, much adieu about nothing..
What they hate is getting gasoline on their hands. I hate it too, but very few people are smart enough to carry rubber gloves to wear every time they fill up their vehicle. And, having lived in Portland for 20 years, I kind of forgot how to pump my own gas -- which means the service is pointless in Oregon, where you are not allowed to pump your own gas anyway.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
You have brilliantly pointed out the flaw in this business model: the only way to give the driver access to fill the vehicle without giving everyone else access to siphon the gas back out is to have people stand next to their cars waiting for the delivery... which sort of defeats the purpose of not going to a gas station in the first place. Not to mention that the lack of calibrated pumps is an open invitation to fraud.
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
as well as a lot of construction guys. lot of that is diesel. lot of that is gasoline. this is not the end of the world.
if this is supposed to be a new economy, how come they still want my old fashioned money?
It's hard to come up with a clear reason why one truck carrying twenty properly filled, properly made gas cans is that much less safe than twenty trucks carrying one.
Nonetheless, regulations typically limit on how much fuel you can carry in portable containers. 90lbs of propane, for example, is the most you're allowed to carry in a passenger vehicle.
Close his eyes and think of Windoze...
Totally agree. There is so much red tape for everything these days. While I realize there is some public interest in the safety regulations they also serve to protect existing infrastructure and people who have a vested interest in it. Sure gasoline is flammable but it's not like the average vehicle isn't already driving around with 10-30 gallons of it. Setup a proper tank and pumping equipment and it'll be totally safe.
It'll be nice when this obsession with having other people do everything else for you will be over. Then again, it might require a certain demographic to just grow up a bit and not panic about having do anything they don't like because they are busy.
Frankly, if you aren't horribly overworked and not constantly distracted, things like shopping for you own food, filling up your own gas and so on aren't intolerable annoyances that you must eliminate at any cost. That's where the mobile app bubble is, there's not nearly enough people that can't manage to balance work and life out there as Silicon Valley thinks there is.
"San Francisco, Los Angeles, Palo Alto, Nashville, Tennessee, and Atlanta"
One of these things is not like the others.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
think Silicon Valley, Seattle, parts of California. Also, what will make it profitable is the 'Sharing' economy. Aka paying people piecemeal with no benefits, no taxes for you (just them) and above all no insurance, training or safety equipment. Just about any stupid idea can be profitable when you're allowed to externalize your expenses onto society at large...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
not a one of them carries commercial drivers insurance and I don't trust Uber to pay up if I ever get in a real wreck and need long term medical treatment. And yeah, my health insurance company will try to weasel out of paying too so...
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
And you want to arrest innocent people any time someone makes up a scary story.
How is the difference not obvious? Is this a troll?
Have to admire the proprietors for their ingenuity, but for the customers...how lazy can you get?
From what I’ve seen above, it doesn’t look like a good idea to transferring petroleum away from a station. Overall it would be safer to have someone arrive, grab your keys and take your car to the gas station. They don’t have to buy a truck then.
I’m old enough to remember 16K of memory being described as “whopping”
Those vehicles exploding in Hollywood movies could be imitated by an SUV near you!
Is it just me or is it starting to look like the USA is trying to regress to something like a third world country in a lot of little ways now?
The nozzles etc must be a different design to the ones in Australia since I can't remember how many years it's been since I've got it on my hands. I haven't spilt it on my hands even filling little drums for mower fuel and I don't think I take much care.
Watching this series of exchanges has been like watching two retarded kids fight over which one gets to eat the red crayon.
No, that's not a compliment. Seriously, it's almost as if there's nothing between those two things. What's more amusing is that you mentioned science and reason above and neglected to consider probabilities and increased odds.
Seriously, fight over the purple crayon next. I hear that one tastes best.
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
What do you know? It really is a telemarketer number. They don't leave a message, want you to call back, call if you are on the DNC list, and are an automobile warranty thing - from Texas, or so it seems. They have at least 17 complaints.
I figured it was some lady who mistakenly gave the AC her number but only wanted him to fix her computer and no, not like porn star computer fixing. ;-)
"So long and thanks for all the fish."
Get the self-driving cars to be able to go to the gas station by themselves and have a drink without supervision and there's no need to violate any fire codes in a way nobody imagined they could be violated when using a jerry can.
"Everybody's naked underneath" -- The Doctor
If they respect and adhere to the relevant fire and hazard regulations, then sure.
But just like with Uber, they'll shit all over the rules and laws and just do whatever they want, with no regard to safety.
Eat the rich.
By a specially licensed driver, driving a specially constructed truck with all kinds of approvals and safety mechanisms. Not some guy with a bunch of jerry cans in the trunk of his car.
Eat the rich.
Custom Truck (longbed with a dropgate to protect the pump)
Driver trained (CDL with Hazmat endorsement)
Limit on size of truck and amount to be delivered
MSD setup before the dropgate gets unlocked
That would be more appropriate if he wanted to experience being fucked in the ass without feeling gay.
Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
Coupons and discount codes are just a marketing strategy. They are used to measure which channels (mail, e-mail, radio) do best in marketing and they typically only coupon the brands that are more expensive regardless of coupons or stuff they want to get rid of.
Large retailers typically coupon everything at 15%, why don't they just lower the prices by 15% and stop sending junk? It would save the environment and the hassle.
Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
I'm thinking of buying a gas station, then having an employee come to your car and pump the gas for you! Maybe even clean your windows! I can't imagine why anybody hasn't tried this yet, it's genius!!!
Have you read my blog lately?
...you mentioned science and reason above and neglected to consider probabilities and increased odds
No, that's specifically why I mentioned "science and reason" and "evidence" and "proof". The alternative is regulating against spooky stories and bogeymen. Are you in favor of using science and evidence, or do you want regulations based on which side has the most dramatic storytelling?
The old tried and true gas delivery service is called AAA. Of course they will bring you gas if you were stupid enough to let it run out. They won't fill your tank but will give you a couple gallons so you can make it to the next filling station.
Paul E. Bahre
according to this documentary. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Liberty - Security - Laziness - Pick any two.
I live in Minnesota, I pump my own gas, and I'm rather clumsy. It's been years since I got gasoline on me.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Kerosene? I'm curious, where do you live?
Are you sure it's not fuel oil?
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
Always better to ask forgiveness than permission.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
The stupid one is the one whom can't make a rebuttal using facts - like you.
Still waiting on Serviscope_minor to wake up to fucking reality and realize that Jessica Price isn't going to fuck him.
But the tow truck has a much bigger gas tank than the pickup truck, which (assuming the tow truck isn't diesel) erases almost all of that difference.
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
This is where we disagree. The probability of a gas can's fuel-air ratio being ideal for ignition is exactly the same whether that gas can is next to another one or not. So although the probability of that specific vehicle catching fire is twenty times higher if it has twenty gas cans, the company that owns the vehicle has exactly the same chance of having a vehicle catch fire, because the probability does not decrease by adding more vehicles; it merely gets spread out over a larger number of death traps^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^Hvehicles.
I was assuming more like a few 5-gallon cans per vehicle—say 25 to 30 gallons in total. Two-hundred gallons would be insane. A typical half-ton pickup can't even carry that much weight; that would exceed its maximum bed weight by about 250 pounds, not counting the gasoline tanks. Besides, tanks over 25 gallons have lots of additional regulations, and most cities' fire codes won't let you store more than 25-30 gasoline cans in a single home or business, so if you go over that limit, you'd never be able to legally park the vehicle overnight....
Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.
This is where we disagree. The probability of a gas can's fuel-air ratio being ideal for ignition is exactly the same whether that gas can is next to another one or not.
Now measure the fuel-vapor ratio OUTSIDE the leaking gas cans. One leaking can is probably not going to be enough. Several? More likely. The idea is that multiple leaking gas cans increase the risk of fire/explosion exponentially.
the company that owns the vehicle has exactly the same chance of having a vehicle catch fire
Individual vehicles are expensive enough that I think it'd be cheaper to 'upgrade' from a couple gas cans to a proper gas tank, complete with fuel hose and pump.
I was assuming more like a few 5-gallon cans per vehicle—say 25 to 30 gallons in total.
I was figuring on 10 gallon gas cans, though 5 would be better in retrospect. Still, you said 20 cans - that would be 100 gallons, not 25-30.
A typical half-ton pickup can't even carry that much weight; that would exceed its maximum bed weight by about 250 pounds, not counting the gasoline tanks.
Incorrect. 200 gallons would be roughly 1,200 pounds, not including the cans, but I figure that will be insignificant. half ton trucks have bed capacities between 1,410 and 1,900 pounds. Easily within their limits.
Besides, tanks over 25 gallons have lots of additional regulations, and most cities' fire codes won't let you store more than 25-30 gasoline cans in a single home or business, so if you go over that limit, you'd never be able to legally park the vehicle overnight....
Park outside, outside of official city limits. Done.
I don't read AC A human right
The probability of a gas can's fuel-air ratio being ideal for ignition is exactly the same whether that gas can is next to another one or not.
Sorry, I wasn't clear in my first post. To be more clear, when I was referring to a single can and said ' much less over a significant area', I was talking about an explosive fuel/air mix OUTSIDE the can, as an ignition source inside a still mostly sealed can is unlikely. Still, a single leaky can is unlikely to reach the explosive mix, much less over enough area for ignition to be likely. However, add another leaky can and you've probably nearly doubled the maximum concentration, as well as made it a much bigger volume. Each additional leaky container increases the concentration and volume, increasing the chance of fire or explosion. This is well known - which is WHY cities say you can't have more than X containers inside a building. Though I'm pretty sure they're tripped a lot sooner than 20, and include things like proper fire containers besides just the cans.
I don't read AC A human right