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Tesla Plans To Produce 500,000 Electric Cars In 2018, 1 Million In 2020 (reuters.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the full-steam-ahead dept.

"Tesla Motors Inc said it was stepping up production plans for its upcoming Model 3 mass-market sedan and would build a total of 500,000 all-electric vehicles in 2018, two years ahead of schedule, but warned that spending will ramp up in tandem," reports Reuters. Tesla said capital spending would rise about 50% more than originally planned this year, to around $2.25 billion. Producing 500,000 vehicles in 2018 will be no easy task, especially considering the company is only on track to deliver between 80,000 and 90,000 electric vehicles this year. In addition to producing 500,000 electric vehicles in 2018, Elon Musk also said the company expects to produce nearly 1 million vehicles in 2020. These are certainly ambitious goals, even for a company that had the 'biggest one-week launch of any product ever.'

88 comments

  1. Never by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Never gonna happen. One thing is for certain. SpaceX and Tesla both never make their ridiculous overly ambitious timeline goals.

    1. Re:Never by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Total number of vehicles sold in U.S. in 2015 was about 17.5 million.

      I don't think it will be simple to grab 3% of the market in two years. Or double that in another two. Tesla is going to find out that scaling production is very hard, very expensive, and competition is brutal.

    2. Re:Never by Chuq · · Score: 2

      Tesla sells internationally - notably Canada, China and across Europe, but as of Model 3 also Mexico, India and Brazil.

      --
      - Chuq
    3. Re:Never by WarJolt · · Score: 1

      Yes, but have you seen most of the cars in the countries you mentioned. Most cars are far from new.

    4. Re:Never by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Okay, smart guy.

      Tesla currently has Supercharger facilities (which I'm using as a convenient proxy for "countries it sells its vehicles to") in Australia, Western Europe, China, Japan, the USA, and Canada. Japan, in particular, has very strict regulations on cars that mean that its car fleet is generally very new; it's rare to see a car older than eight to ten years old on Japanese roads, and there would be a huge appeal in that country to buying an electrical vehicle, thanks to their stringent emissions controls. I'd expect the Model 3 to be a significant part of that country's market, early in the game.

      Globally, car sales are over 74 million per annum. One million vehicles would represent about 1.35% of global vehicle sales - not an easy target to reach, but I think there's a reasonable chance they can do it, if they stick to a relatively conservative and well-understood (from an engineering point of view) design. The Model X's doors are a perfect example of how not to do it - sure, over time, they'll get better, but for a mass market vehicle, you want to keep it simple, keep it familiar, and thereby minimise the risks to the ramp-up. (That said, as the technology in the Model X is bedded down, it will probably find its way into other vehicles. I just don't think that the early model 3s would be the right place for it.)

    5. Re: Never by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a Canadian who has visited the USA and Europe recently I can say for certain the US has the oldest shitboxes on the road.

    6. Re: Never by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 2, Interesting
      Cars are about the worst investment that you can make. They're largely for showing off how much money you have to waste. Maybe boats are worse.

      I can buy low cost house for not much more than a new car and turn it into source of income. Given this choice, I'll keep driving my 30 year old POS (that works perfectly well BtW) and buy more houses.

    7. Re:Never by jblues · · Score: 1

      In my country most cars are far from new, but the neighborhood where I live has a lot of new high-end and mid-tier cars. The city has a high population, so there's plenty of market here for them too. Traditional auto-makers don't turn their nose up at these markets and neither should Tesla. I hope they do well on rough roads though.

      --
      If it acquires resources on instantiation like a duck, then its a shared_ptr<Duck>
    8. Re: Never by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 2

      Not to detract, but it sounds like you made a good investment in that car 30 years ago. And it sounds like you invest your money well in proper maintenance.

    9. Re: Never by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

      Hah...not really. I just don't drive a lot, and when I do it's mostly long distance highway. It's only been washed twice (and not by me).

    10. Re:Never by Zuriel · · Score: 1

      Tesla have said that the Model 3 was designed to be easy to manufacture. I can't see something like the falcon wing doors being included. Until we get to about 2025 and the Model 4 takes over as the affordable car, then we'll see bells and whistles in Model 3...

    11. Re: Never by tweissin · · Score: 1

      You obviously don't live up north. The salt on the roads in the winter chew up a car's exterior. Also what part of the country do you live where there is a house the cost of an average car?

    12. Re:Never by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There are enough followers to the cult of Tesla to sell some more than they currently do. However. they will never be able to get anywhere near their production targets. They are not just ludicrously optimistic, but they are simply pulled out of thin air without any consideration of technical feasibility whatsoever. Moreover, Tesla has never been able to achieve their more modest goals in the past either.

    13. Re:Never by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Japan is also a densely populated country with tight controls on vehicle size. A gigantic car like a Tesla Model 3 will not be practical or cheap to own in Japan. Moreover, the Japanese tend to favour well-built products and have a low tolerance for failure. So far, Tesla's cars have been below average even among the notoriously poor-quality car manufacturers in the United States, who currently barely manage to sell anything in Japan. I won't get your hopes up. When Japan starts buying loads of electric cars, I am willing to bet a dear amount that the vast majority of those cars will be from Japanese manufacturers and the rest will be mostly from luxury European manufacturers.

    14. Re:Never by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >Tesla's cars have been below average even
      do you have a link to recent data backing that claim ?

    15. Re: Never by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good for you? Guess I just have enough disposable income to get a new sports car every year or two. I actually track mine though.

    16. Re: Never by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      That's what I'm jealous of. Houses that cost not much more than a new car. Here in Europe a house that has been declared uninhabitable still costs 190,000 euro. You have to pay for the costs to break down the house and pay for the cost to build a new house. That is the cheapest house in my environment at the moment and it is even a terraced house without garden nor place to park your car.

      If I had half a million spare, I would think about buying houses. It is still worth the investment, but the upfront costs are insane over here.

    17. Re: Never by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      I agree: statements like that definitely merit posting as AC...

    18. Re: Never by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      ...but it sounds like you made a good investment

      More like a worthwhile expenditure. "Investment" has different meaning entirely.

    19. Re: Never by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      Also what part of the country do you live where there is a house the cost of an average car?

      Somewhere with a wage-structure so suppressed that $45k will buy you a liveable house... and those of us with any sense would still rather take a bullet than live there. Places like Oklahoma comes to mind.

    20. Re:Never by fbobraga · · Score: 1

      Most cars are far from new.

      It's false here on Brazil: most cars here are new or have few years from manufacturing - I think it's wrong in other countries in the list too: may be a common misconception ("Cuba-related"?)...

    21. Re: Never by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I live up north. Have two motor vehicles, one is over 10 years old, the other is nearly 40 years old.

      Even with salt, they don't get exposed that much if you rarely drive it.

    22. Re:Never by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tesla, a gnat in the automotive world, sells 50,000 cars globally. Subaru, a minor manufacturer, sells ten times that amount just in the United States. Tesla is running out of money and will be broke by the end of this year unless they raise capital. The Fremont plant has the capacity to produce 200,000 annually. The company will need to acquire another plant, which will costs about $1 billion to build new. It is possible they could buy the Mitsubishi facility in Illinois, but baring that, they simply don't have the manufacturing capacity to hit the numbers projected.

      You also have to remember that Musk has constantly lied about the financials of all his companies (Tesla, SpaceX, and SolarCity). Tesla has been around for 10 years and is still not profitable. They have never had a profitable year, and only had one profitable quarter which was related to paying off the federal loan and selling more shares. Their operating expenses are too high and they don't sell enough cars to bring in a profit, but they cannot sell more unless they have more capital to invest.

    23. Re: Never by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1

      No, a house that will pay for itself with tenants. And who cares if you want to die, I'm just in it for the money.

    24. Re: Never by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 1
      You should have been here at the end of 2008. Perfectly livable (as evidenced by the many people living there) 40 year old tract houses were being sold as low as 10k! A friend of mine (fellow engineer) took all of his savings, around $200k, and bought a bunch, fixed them up and now rents them for $1500/mnth. Not to mention now that the market as recovered, they're worth 10x what he paid for them (with cash).

      There are a lot of immigrant dense neighborhoods around and people without a lot of money need places to live. On top of that, many have good blue collar skills and can improve the house while living in it for reduced rates.

    25. Re:Never by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He's probably referring to this:

      http://www.consumerreports.org/cars/tesla-reliability-doesnt-match-its-high-performance/

    26. Re:Never by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We've heard that 'easy to manufacture' since Tesla's day one. It is an electric car, so no complicated ICE, no complicated transmission, upgradeable, etc. We haven't really seen any of this, on top of massive subsidies from the government, Tesla is still losing a large chunk of cash with each car.

    27. Re: Never by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      On slashdot, posting anything that can be perceived as negative about the Cult of Musk, even if it is very well reasoned and fact-based, merits posting as AC, because of the fanboi "I don't agree" vote. Musk is the first big scammer of the 21st century, but his following here is as aggressive, ignorant and intolerant as any.

    28. Re: Never by Bing+Tsher+E · · Score: 1

      and those of us with any sense would still rather take a bullet than live there.

      The Internet has really flattened out the world, and made it tolerable, even pleasant, to live in many places that would be unlivable a few decades ago.

      Twenty years ago the town I live outside of was small-town Midwest, with a few stores and everything shut down at six on weekdays. Even shorter hours on the weekends. The cultural 'connection' was a Sam Goodies outlet at the strip mall on the outskirts of town.

      Today, even a nerd like me can feel connected and in touch by reaching out over electronic forums. Music by artists I like, I can order over Bandcamp. The fact that one of my favorite musical groups is based in Amsterdam doesn't block me from enjoying their latest work as it comes out.

      I would probably still be in Minneapolis without the Internet allowing me to stay connected with my interests. But when I moved here from Minneapolis, I was able to sell a two bedroom town house for the same amount of money I paid for a comfortable 19th century house on Five acres here.

    29. Re: Never by umberleigh · · Score: 1

      Whilst I agree the internet is fantastic for connecting with your interests and makes living in a small town tolerable, until we have the metaverse there's still no replacement for living in a city that fits you. I grew up in a small town about an hour away from London, England with nothing to do and nobody that shared my interests close by. The internet made it just barely tolerable, but it's not the same as being able to share your interests with people who live a few minutes walk away and connecting with people face-to-face. For instance you have the opportunity of going to actually see those artists you like play gigs live in the flesh.

  2. Skeptical of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Last year, Toyota produced about 415,000 of their Camry model. I just don't see how Tesla, who has a lot less money and manufacturing capacity, can produce 500,000 cars so soon.

    1. Re:Skeptical of this by CaptainLard · · Score: 1

      Great! If you're skeptical that means someone else is being ambitious. Something we could use much more of in fields other than new chat apps.

    2. Re:Skeptical of this by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 1

      It will be easier to manufacture and excuse or two. And even more people will buy those.

    3. Re:Skeptical of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He can make as many as he can, but like every other car manufacturer, most will be sitting unwanted on disused air-strips while being counted in the totals.

    4. Re:Skeptical of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      yeah, it's not as if in the month after the announcement of the model 3, there were 400,000 pre-orders.

    5. Re: Skeptical of this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      400k preorders don't mean much.

  3. I didn't know.. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    there was that many hipsters on the planet

  4. They don't have the capital. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Do some basic research. They've never made more than about 11,000 cars a month. They don't have enough capital to build the manufacturing capacity to make that many cars.

    They seem to have tricked a few of you.

    Tesla is a religion that makes electric cars.

    1. Re:They don't have the capital. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's a better end product than most religions.

  5. Yeah right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He'll be on Mars before he makes 1,000,000 cars in a year.

    1. Re: Yeah right. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      And he'll be able to buy a 'Mars trip' from Rekall before goimg to Mars.

  6. who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Can anyone tell me why I should care about this? I drive a Ferrari; why would I give a shit about Tesla?

    1. Re:who cares? by WarJolt · · Score: 1

      Because in California you show up at your smug friends house in a Tesla and your awesome friends house in a Ferrari. Don't let those two intermingle. That's just all bad. You'll be cleaning smugness off for weeks and you can't just drop your smug friend because he knows a guy who knows a guy who can get things done.

    2. Re:who cares? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I drive a Ferrari;
      Yeah, a Ferrari kid's pedal car. And you make vroom vroom noises.
      http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Large-Ferrari-Racing-Pedal-Car-/222092460863

  7. Dear Elon by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

    Ramping up production - any plans to manufacture in Australia? You'd have your choice of factory and a monopoly on production once Ford, General Motors and Toyota all exit the market in a year or two, meaning lots of skilled, unemployed workers.

    Add a possible change of government come July, keen to transition to a "low carbon" future where electric vehicles haven't made much of a dent yet.

    Right hand drive vehicles for the UK market...

    1. Re:Dear Elon by Chuq · · Score: 1

      Sadly not :(

      http://reneweconomy.com.au/201...

      --
      - Chuq
    2. Re:Dear Elon by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      Well at least Weatherill and Turnbull have asked the question, I guess.

      I'd suggest with our sunny climate Tesla would make a killing on locally made Powerwall batteries if the government weren't so blinded by coal.

    3. Re:Dear Elon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well at least Weatherill and Turnbull have asked the question, I guess.

      I'd suggest with our sunny climate Tesla would make a killing on locally made Powerwall batteries if the government weren't so blinded by coal.

      The most efficient use of batteries is not at the house level, but higher up the grid, because the peaks and valleys of energy demand will average out somewhat over numerous houses. The only reason the power wall could make sense for individuals is if the electric company overcharges the customer or doesn't pay them enough for the solar power the customer sells back to the grid.

    4. Re:Dear Elon by Zuriel · · Score: 1

      The only reason the power wall could make sense for individuals is if the electric company overcharges the customer or doesn't pay them enough for the solar power the customer sells back to the grid.

      They do. Australian electricity is fairly expensive and we get pennies for generated solar, so charging your battery during the day when you're not home and using that power at peak time in the evening makes sense, and it will make more sense as the price of solar and batteries comes down.

      The power companies raise rates and cut feed-in tariffs to maintain their profits, which makes more people buy solar and batteries, which means more rate rises and tariff cuts, which means more solar and batteries.

      We could transition to a smart grid, where power is valued depending on how far it needs to be carried from generator to consumer due to the reduced load on the grid. Alternatively, the power companies could spin merrily in their death spiral while crying for government to save them, which seems the most likely possibility.

    5. Re:Dear Elon by BasilBrush · · Score: 2

      The electric company is a business, not a charity. Of course they are going to sell electricity for substantially more then they buy it for. That's what businesses do. So unless a country's government mandates them buying electricity from consumers at a similar price to supplying it, Powerwall makes sense.

      At the grid level, unless you have a very flat country, it makes more sense to use pumped hydro than batteries anyway.

    6. Re:Dear Elon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Tesla doesn't need skilled employees. They are part of the legacy car industry. Tesla has replaced manufacturing and QA with the spirit of Silicon Valley, optimism and a cult following.

    7. Re: Dear Elon by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually, in the UK it would make financial sense to buy a powerwall, charge it overnight from mains power and feed it back to the grid during the day claiming you installed some solar panels. Stupid government policy means the power companies have to pay a lot more for solar energy than they will get from selling it on!

    8. Re:Dear Elon by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      "At the grid level, unless you have a very flat country, it makes more sense to use pumped hydro than batteries anyway."

      There aren't that many locations suitable for pumped hydro, even in hilly/mountainous terrain.

  8. At this point I am ready for everything by mapkinase · · Score: 3, Interesting

    I'll drive a car running on the blood of freshly killed babies if I won't drive it.

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    1. Re:At this point I am ready for everything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you'll drive it if you won't drive it? I can't parse that. Is the paradox deliberate? Did I miss a joke wooshing overhead?

    2. Re:At this point I am ready for everything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder how cool a Tesla will be when they out number Priuses.

    3. Re:At this point I am ready for everything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I wonder what is the color in the sky in the Universe where that happens.

  9. Cars, cars, cars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The cars aren't the issue for most Americans.
    The Service Centers and charging stations are the issue.

    Earlier, the News carried stories of talks between Tesla and BMW. Should BMW sell and service Tesla, they would immediately become an option for a very large segments of Americans.

    1. Re:Cars, cars, cars by AaronW · · Score: 4, Informative

      Those issues are rapidly diminishing in many areas. Charging stations are popping up all over. I've been driving my Model S since 2013, and the number of places I can't take it is rapidly shrinking. I go on an annual camping trip in the eastern Sierra Nevada mountains and this will be the first year I won't need to borrow a gasoline car for the trip since the main highway is now covered (highway 395). As for service centers, those also are popping up in many places, though some states are actively trying to prevent them.

      My experience with Tesla service is night and day compared to my experience with Toyota. Toyota always tried to push a bunch of crap on me. They'd try and push blinker fluid if they thought they could get away with it. I'd have to fight with them when my car had common well-known problems. With Tesla there's never any question and they address the problem. My car has had more issues than the newer ones since it is a low VIN number but most of those issues were squeaks and rattles, which is difficult for any manufacturer to get right, especially with a brand new model from a new company out of a new factory. Hell, with Tesla I don't need AAA for towing since Tesla's service is better since there is no limit on distance or the number of times you can use it. I have had to use it once, and it was due to a tire that I bought through Tirerack and had installed by a third party developing a bubble in the sidewall. There were no questions nor was I billed for a tow home where I could go to my local dealer for a replacement tire since they discount the tires.

      For those who don't live near a service center, they will come to you for an extra $100 fee.

      All one has to do is look at Tesla's upcoming 2016 map of chargers to see how quickly they're planning on expanding it. Tesla has already said that they plan to double the number of charging spots by the end of the year and I expect similar growth in 2017. The superchargers are the big game changer for Tesla. Nobody else can boast having an EV which can be driven across the country without spending huge amounts of time charging. Last September I had no problems or significant delays driving from the Bay Area to Seattle. It took me 2 days and charging only added 3-4 hours to the entire trip. The time often wasn't wasted either. I used it to stretch my legs and grab a bite to eat. If I were driving a gas car I'd also take 2 days for this drive since I'm not about to drive 14-16 hours straight.

      --
      This post is encrypted twice with ROT-13. Documenting or attempting to crack this encryption is illegal.
    2. Re:Cars, cars, cars by Kokuyo · · Score: 1

      Now if only I was better at saving cash...

    3. Re:Cars, cars, cars by mapkinase · · Score: 1

      One look at the posted map leaves no doubt that Tesla remains heavily rich-centered company. Even metropolitan centers have very few centers, located in the highest cost of living areas.

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    4. Re:Cars, cars, cars by berberine · · Score: 2

      All one has to do is look at Tesla's upcoming 2016 map of chargers to see how quickly they're planning on expanding it. Tesla has already said that they plan to double the number of charging spots by the end of the year and I expect similar growth in 2017. The superchargers are the big game changer for Tesla. Nobody else can boast having an EV which can be driven across the country without spending huge amounts of time charging. Last September I had no problems or significant delays driving from the Bay Area to Seattle. It took me 2 days and charging only added 3-4 hours to the entire trip. The time often wasn't wasted either. I used it to stretch my legs and grab a bite to eat. If I were driving a gas car I'd also take 2 days for this drive since I'm not about to drive 14-16 hours straight.

      They aren't expanding to western Nebraska. It's 402 miles from Scottsbluff to Lincoln. In my car, that's one stop for about 10 minutes max to fill up with gas. The model 3 doesn't have a range listed. The X and S say 237-294. At the low end that's two stops just to get to my destination, which adds at least 75 minutes to each trip. Oh yeah, there aren't any charging stations on that route and none planned so Tesla is still out for many people in this area.

      There are many people in western Nebraska who travel to Lincoln, Omaha, Cheyenne, Denver, Ft. Collins, Loveland on a regular basis. They aren't going to want to fuck around and wait 75 minutes or more for shit to charge.

      Also, I do drive 14-16 hours straight once a year visiting my mother. It's a 28 hour drive and I do it in two days. I'm not even going to do the math on how much time will be wasted charging these things.

      My tank of gas gets me 375-425 miles, depending on traffic and how much stuff I have in the car. The Teslas simply can't compete with that. I also paid $18,000 new for it. Tesla can't touch that. While Teslas are great in major urban areas where people just tool around the city to and from work, running errands, etc, that's fine. But it hasn't even tried to reach rural areas yet. I don't see that changing for another 10 years.

    5. Re:Cars, cars, cars by itsdapead · · Score: 1

      One look at the posted map leaves no doubt that Tesla remains heavily rich-centered company.

      The fact that the "affordable" Model 3 still costs BMW-3-series-money shouldn't leave any doubt of that to start with.

      That said, the point of EVs is that most of the time you charge them at home and only need a charging station when making long trips, so the need for charging stations in cities & residential areas is reduced - they're needed along long-distance routes and at hotels, 'destination' shopping malls etc. The "high cost of living areas" are also the places that people are likely to take road trips to visit for business/pleasure.

      A solution is needed for 'home charging' if you don't have a driveway or garage, but driving to a 'local' public charging station isn't going to entice people to buy EVs. I don't see high-density residential areas that already have parking problems welcoming roadside charging points unless they are 'residents only'.

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    6. Re:Cars, cars, cars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm thrilled you like your car and service. Unfortunately Tesla is an extraordinarily unprofitable company. They don't even cover gross margins and selling costs of their cars, let alone warranty costs. I would absolutely stand by what you're saying if they were profitable at the same time, but they aren't and they're a long way from ever being profitable. At some point that service will diminish and fewer things will be covered, especially if the sheer volume of problems with the Model X carries over into the Model 3.

      I absolutely believe you that their service is top notch. Unfortunately their production quality is second-rate at best. With as many cars that they want to put on the road, unless they make a serious effort to fix their quality issues with their parts, this white glove service you like so much will bankrupt the company, and then there will be no service at all. It's simply unsustainable cash-wise to maintain that level of service.

    7. Re:Cars, cars, cars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      To charge a 75 kWh Tesla with my available plugs: 230 Volt, 16 Ampere gives a maximum peak of 3.6 kW. 75 kWh / 3.6 kW = 20,8 hour. I can only charge a maximum of 8 hours each working day, so I can charge 8 h * 3.6 kW = 28.8 kWh. Tesla claims I can drive 480 km with 75 kWh. Lets assume they are right (although I doubt those claims in my rainy, cold, hilly and stop and go traffic environment) than I can drive 480 km / 75 kWh * 28.8 kWh = 184.32 km every day.

      I drive about 160 km every day (commute to work, kids to school, shopping, hobby), so I get dangerously low on power every single day. According to your map, the closest charging point is 80 km away (160 km up and down) and I need to cross two national borders. That's not really practical. From my house to work there is not one single charging point. I don't have the ability to charge my car at my work. It's one big parking lot, but the office owners claim that they don't have enough power to install a superchargers. They are only willing to install supercharger if either the car owners, the companies hiring offices, Tesla or the government is willing to pay for the high costs.

      I can't install a supercharger at my home either, except when I'm willing to pay for the very high costs to install an "industrial electricity connection". It has been a long time since I used my physics formula's, and I confess it is rusty, but please correct me if I'm completely off with my charging times. But I think the charging time is even longer, because to my knowledge, a battery is DC, while my socket is AC. Converting from AC to DC consumes energy, and what I remember from college is that 10% is lost during the conversion, so 184.32 * 0.9 = 165 km ... that's even worse and I would be better of looking for a new job closer to where I live. But that would also mean I would only earn half of what I earn today. But with only half my wage, I'm not able to buy such an expensive car either.
       
      I think the best thing to do is to continue driving my 13 year old Mercedes that does 5.5 liter / 100 km and lasts 1100-1300 km on one 'charge' with a 'recharge' time of 30 minutes (including traveling time and time for a (free!) drink and a chat with the station owner who is an old school friend of mine) and is pretty cheap in maintenance (about 60 euro a year) except when I need to replace tires or brakes (which is also a 'problem' for EV).

    8. Re:Cars, cars, cars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm glad to see it coming but still you Tesla owners act like Elon graced you with all of this. The fact of the matter is that if you're going to produce an EV that costs 18 months of the average US worker's salary (pre-tax) then I had better get something out of it. Let's see how much of a game changer it is when you have beer bellies buying the cars at 35k and driving them in droves. When the profits are cut back and you're no longer the precious snowflake that you are today are you going to get the same service? Toyota sells more cars in the US in a month than Tesla will sell in 2020. When you're dealing with those kinds of numbers and gaggles of people who've already cut their budget to the bone to afford a new car you're going to see a difference.
       
      This is no different than any other industry; when you only deal with a high end clientele who has money to spare you can make it easy by increasing your margins and taking on less work. This makes you more available and your clients are grateful to have someone who is professional and at the ready. When you start to need/want to appeal to a less wealthy client you need to start working in volume. That means more customers and less profits per customer. You may still make the same money but you're going to be busy and more and more often it's going to mean telling people that they need to wait for your services. Tesla will have the same growing pains and if they handle them any better is yet to be seen. My guess is that the perks and professionalism will slowly decline and in about 10 years you may still be happy with the product but it won't be the same experience as what you have going on today.
       
      I've even seen this difference when companies like Hyundai were bending over backwards to build a good customer base. They were professional and bent to every reasonable request and they even did it at a great price point. Today? Not so much. They bolstered their price on their vehicles and their service is about a step above that of your average McDonald's store.
       
      This isn't to say that Tesla is going to go out of business because of this but you high rollers with your fancy cars aren't going to get the same treatment you do today and if they keep their high end product truly cutting edge the price will go up... especially if you expect to go to the service department and not just be another number.

    9. Re:Cars, cars, cars by CastrTroy · · Score: 1

      There's only 1.8 million people in all of Nebraska. It doesn't really mattter that the Tesla concept doesn't work for every single person in the country. As long as they can get it to work for the large population centers like California, New York, etc, they can probably cover 60% of the US population.

      Also, for People doing that one trip a year where to visit family, they would probably be better off renting a gasoline car and saving money year round by paying less to operate the electric car for the year.

      --

      Anthropic principle: We see the universe the way it is because if it were different we would not be here to see it.
    10. Re:Cars, cars, cars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They aren't expanding to western Nebraska
      ...
      Also, I do drive 14-16 hours straight once a year visiting my mother. It's a 28 hour drive and I do it in two days.
      ...
      But it hasn't even tried to reach rural areas yet. I don't see that changing for another 10 years.

      You have found a good reason why the current crop of EVs will not work for your circumstances. Errr ... congratulations?

      In related news, currently my wife doesn't need eyeglasses! (Though if you saw what I look like, you'd think she does! :-) )

    11. Re:Cars, cars, cars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Model 3 and BMW 3-Series are both right around the average cost of a new car in the US ($34,000).

    12. Re:Cars, cars, cars by AaronW · · Score: 1

      Most owners install a 240V 50A outlet in their garages. The outlet is around $14 at Home Depot. Of course that doesn't count the wiring and breaker, but generally it isn't all that expensive.

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    13. Re:Cars, cars, cars by AaronW · · Score: 1

      The cars are highly profitable with margins of over 25%. One needs to look at where all that money is going. Tesla could be profitable any time they want to, but if they did so they would remain a niche market and could never produce a car like the model 3. All of that money is being spent on capital needed to grow their business like the gigafactory. It also takes a lot of capital to put together a factory to build a high volume of cars. Tesla's problem is that they are supply constrained and it takes a lot of money to address this.

      I have over 40,000 miles on my model S. To date I have not had a single major problem with it and I tend to have a lead foot. I don't think the issues of the model X will affect the model 3 since the model 3 doesn't have the falcon wing doors nor will it have the complex seats that the X has.

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    14. Re:Cars, cars, cars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The cars are highly profitable with margins of over 25%.

      Apparently Tesla is losing $4,000 (-5%) per Model S sold.

      http://www.reuters.com/article/us-teslamotors-cash-insight-idUSKCN0QE0DC20150810

      Trying to pass yourself off as a happy customer Elon?

    15. Re: Cars, cars, cars by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Tesla is going to be building on I80 this year and into 2017. Because Nebraska us lightly populated and your gov will not allow them to sell there,ne is not a top priority. Besides, u have huskers there and nobody wants to see them :)

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      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    16. Re:Cars, cars, cars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Also, I do drive 14-16 hours straight once a year visiting my mother. It's a 28 hour drive and I do it in two days. I'm not even going to do the math on how much time will be wasted charging these things.

      Wouldn't it be more sensible to fly? It would save a lot of time and probably even be more fuel efficient over that sort of distance, it'll also be safer, driving 14-16 hours straight isn't safe, it is hard to keep your attention on the road for that amount of time.

    17. Re:Cars, cars, cars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except that BMW3 is a real car, while Model 3 is vaporware, especially in large numbers.

    18. Re:Cars, cars, cars by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You miss the point entirely. It isn't the plug that is the problem, it is the cost of a 10 kW line from the utility company that is needed which is high. For you, this is the pipe that carries the electricity fluid from the power station to the $14 plug and into the car.

    19. Re:Cars, cars, cars by stoatwblr · · Score: 1

      "Tesla could be profitable any time they want to, but if they did so they would remain a niche market and could never produce a car like the model 3"

      The thing to bear in mind is that carmakers traditionally make far more money selling car parts (or in Ford's case, finance deals) than cars.

      Tesla's focus isn't cars or car parts. It's batteries - and not just in Teslas, or even in cars.

      The objective is to produce a large enough market for large batteries for economies of scale to kick in enough to lower prices and spur demand. Bear in mind that patents have been used for the last 20 years to keep automotive traction batteries uncompetitive and some of those patents recently expired.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

  10. Uh-huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This has got to be the most hype-driven (ha!) company on earth, they make Microsoft in the 90s look humble. That we people are dumping so much money into all of this nonsense does make me want to hurl.

    1. Re: Uh-huh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I keep hoping to hear about the body of Elon Musk washing up on a river bank wearing cement shoes. Hipster douche needs to go.

  11. Elon will lead us out of the ICE desert! by rdelsambuco · · Score: 1

    So shall it be written, so shall it be done.

    --
    I comment occasionally so that I can mod others -1 overrated or -1 offtopic.
    1. Re:Elon will lead us out of the ICE desert! by zlives · · Score: 1

      wish in one hand, shit in the other...

  12. Buy it while you can. by jcr · · Score: 0

    If you want a Tesla, get it before Apple crushes them like a bug.

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  13. can do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Tesla can do this because the other car companies are only pretending to make electric cars and you cant buy them. Tesla is the only way to get an electric car in australia.

    1. Re:can do by Sique · · Score: 1

      Don't they sell the Nissan Leaf?

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      .sig: Sique *sigh*
    2. Re:can do by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hard to tell. If I get onto Nissan's Australian website and try to get a price for the Leaf, it won't give one to me. It's only by going to a third party website (caradvice.com.au) that I can find out that the recommended list price is a touch over $AU51,000. That, combined with its fairly lackluster range (around 150km for the Australian model - they won't import the higher capacity battery) and the lack of general charging infrastructure, makes it a very hard sell.

      That said, BMW does sell a few electric models, for prices comparable (I believe; haven't looked it up lately) to the Tesla Model S. So no, they're not the only game in town... just the best known, and quite likely the most refined at this stage (given that electric is their raison d'etre, whereas for BMW, it's a sideshow, at least for now.)

  14. Yeah Good Luck with that by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Musk talks a big game in Tesla, but the problem with car production is people may get excited about the concept of an electric car but they won't buy if the door handles don't work, if the power train needs to be completely replaced and overhauled every 60,000 miles, if the roof doesn't fit, if the emergency brake kicks in every 6 seconds, and if the doors won't close, all of which have been common problems with the Model S and the Model X.

    A car is a complex piece of machinery with many points of failure and the consumer of the cheaper vehicle expects those things to work. Model S owners may be willing to ignore busted power trains, and Model X owners may be willing to forgive a stupid door design you can't open in standard garage; they likely have other cars and can manage an expensive but poorly functional car. But the target market for a $35,000 car likely can't afford to have an expensive lemon in the garage; they're more likely 2 income families driving their kids to school before working a 9 to 5 to pay the rent or barely make mortgage. They won't accept having to hold the driver side door closed with one hand while driving their kids' carpool.

    http://techcrunch.com/2016/04/20/tesla-model-x-owners-finding-car-doors-wont-shut-windows-wont-close/

    If Tesla has this level of quality issues producing 50,000 cars per year, those problems will only grow exponentially when ramping production by 10X. Greg Reichow and Gilbert Passin must be freaking out with anxiety at that. Tesla doesn't have the financials to support recalls and warranties with those kinds of quality problems and they'll be doing recalls like crazy if they don't fix those before delivery or they'll be sunk just on warranty costs.

    1. Re:Yeah Good Luck with that by AlanObject · · Score: 1

      car but they won't buy if the door handles don't work, if the power train needs to be completely replaced and overhauled every 60,000 miles, if the roof doesn't fit, if the emergency brake kicks in every 6 seconds, and if the doors won't close, all of which have been common problems with the Model S and the Model X.

      Always amazing how these kinds of problems don't seem to count when they appear on BMWs, Fords, Audis, Toyotas, or anything else, but in the case of Tesla they are always the defining deal breaker. Always presented smugly as above. Yet still Tesla remains supply limited with backorders as far as the eye can see and its customer loyalty and satisfaction remains at phenomenal levels. I guess all those tens of thousands of people who can affording simply love wasting their money.

      I have heard of cars with ignition switches that cause freeway fatalities, accelerator pedals that get stuck, tires that blow out unexpectedly, massive recalls all the time on stuff both dangerous or merely annoying. Somehow that never seems to be a problem for the efficacy of the companies that cause them.

      I remember two years back about all the "Tesla car fires." The lizard-brain gullible market responded with a huge stock value drop and that's when I bought as much as I could. Never regretted it.

  15. Blank Check from the Taxpayer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's amazing what you can do when you don't have to worry about what things cost because the taxpayer is footing the bill.

    Must be nice to be a corporate raider on the benefit side of huge government spending policies.