'Boaty McBoatface' Polar Ship Named After Attenborough Despite Less Votes (bbc.com)

The UK's 200 Million Euro polar research ship won't be called Boaty McBoatface. Instead, the new ship will be called RRS (Royal Research Ship) Sir David Attenborough. The Natural Environment Research Council (NERC) had originally planned to name the new ship via an online poll. In all fairness, RRS Sir David Attenborough did pick up a few votes, though in terms of popularity nothing came close to Boaty McBoatface (it earned over 124,000 votes). "We want a name that lasts longer than a social-media news cycle and reflects the serious nature of the science it will be doing," said Jo Johnson, the U.K. Science minister. BBC reports: While the polar ship itself will not be named Boaty McBoatface, one of its remotely operated sub-sea vehicles will be named Boaty in recognition of the vote. James Hand, who first suggested the flippant moniker, said he was pleased the name would "live on."

Comments

fewer

[Anonymous Coward]

it's "fewer votes" not "less votes"

the same way you say "greater than" not "greater then"

punk kids

Re:fewer

[Leuf]

I knew Brienne didn't really kill you.

Re:fewer

[wonkey_monkey]

Either is acceptable to most people. There's not central English authority, and nothing is lost by "allowing" the use of the word "less" in this context.

In fact:

Less has always been used in English with counting nouns. Indeed, the application of the distinction between less and fewer as a rule is a phenomenon originating in the 18th century.

Re: fewer

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm a descriptivist myself but "less votes" sounds like total shit. It's fucking fewer you dumbass.

Re:fewer

[lgw]

Either is acceptable to most people.

Most people like reality TV and top 40 bands.

Edited prose (well, allegedly edited in /.'s case) is a higher standard. "Fewer votes" is correct; "less votes" is jarringly wrong, it grates on the ear.

There may not be an "official" standard for English, but read enough well-edited prose and you'll understand there is nevertheless a standard, for all in tents, and porpoises.

Re:fewer

[Athanasius]

Less has always been used in English with counting nouns. Indeed, the application of the distinction between less and fewer as a rule is a phenomenon originating in the 18th century.

So, for over 200 years now then, I think that makes it current usage.

Re:fewer

[Anonymous Coward]

A standard for every porpoise, and a porpoise for every standard! That all makes perfect cents. But what are these In Tents, and do they serve alcoholic Beverages? The Porpoise of Beer Standards is to be informed about all such things!

Re:fewer

[Xtifr]

Except that it has never been universally accepted, nor even close. It appeared as a stylistic suggestion and has never really gone beyond that.

If you want to restrict your own use of "less" to noncountables, that's fine. Nobody's stopping you. But it is simply false to claim that anyone who ignores your personal preference is doing something wrong.

These sorts of things are also subject to regional variation. If "less votes" sounds absolutely wrong to you, that may simply reflect the peculiarities of your specific dialect. To me, it merely sounds a bit informal. I'd say "he got less votes" if I was speaking informally, but in a formal context, I'd say "he received fewer votes". Note that the verb changes as well as adjective. To me, "he got fewer votes" sounds rather bizarre, like it's shifting registers mid-sentence. On the other hand, "he received less votes" sounds terrible.

Re:fewer

[Tablizer]

it's "fewer votes" not "less votes"

Grammar McGramface!
 

Re:fewer

[Aighearach]

That's not a real rule, that's a style guide you didn't understand. :o

Welcome to English, please enjoy your stay.

Also, the best correction to offer would be to add a word such as "getting" before the word "less." That's the obvious omission due to the necessary brevity of headlines. Presuming a grammatical fake-mistake is presumptuous to start with, but absolutely needless here where even if you believed in the "rule," it wouldn't apply.

And for the record, they never offered to name the ship based on the votes. The voting was just a way for the public to give input into the naming; the goal wasn't an election, but simply an improved input process. So everybody wonkish enough to be paying close attention knew from the start that it wouldn't be named Troll Blahblah or whatever, and Attenborough has been considered the leading candidate (based on the voting) all along.

Re:fewer

[Anonymous Coward]

No, not to most people. It's your choice if you wish to sound ignorant, so feel free to continue kidding yourself that nobody will notice.

Re:fewer

[Dahamma]

I'd say "he got less votes" if I was speaking informally, but in a formal context, I'd say "he received fewer votes".

Context, absolutely. And I assume that based on your UID you are not new here, and already know you are on one of the most pedantic sites on the Internet. So, *how* is it you don't get the context?

Re: fewer

[Anonymous Coward]

My asshoole

Re: fewer

[Anonymous Coward]

The meaning is the same. It's not like they are different concepts, fewer is essentially just being applied to integers. Do we need to change C to have a fucking fewer operator as well?

Re: fewer

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes.

Fewer

[Anonymous Coward]

Numerable

Boaty McBoatface would have been something ...

[Anonymous Coward]

... Iain M. Banks would have liked. Rest in peace, Iain.

Re:Boaty McBoatface would have been something ...

[Qzukk]

I'm pretty sure he'd have voted for "RRS It's Bloody Cold Here". It certainly seems like a name a Ship would choose.

Re:Boaty McBoatface would have been something ...

[Anonymous Coward]

Unfortunately Cunty McCuntface decided on Sir David Attenborough.

Less votes

[Anonymous Coward]

The votes for Boaty might have been lesser, but Attenborough had fewer votes.

Strange irony

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

Boaty McBoatface is actually very representative of the "democratic" process in our societies: people vote, but ultimately their voice doesn't matter one jot, and the powers that be impose whatever the hell they want.

The inevitable conclusion, in politics as in silly internet ship-naming polls, is: why vote at all then? The deciders don't really need our opinion, now, do they?

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

And sometimes the "deciders" need to use some common sense, because the voters vote for things that are obviously inappropriate...

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

You're right, it perfectly illustrates *representative* democracy, whereby the people elected as the representatives take into account the public will, and make the decision they think is best for society as a whole.

It seems you're getting that confused with "direct democracy", where any old bunch of idiots can implement stupid decisions that in many cases may not be the best course of action.

Re:Strange irony

[myowntrueself]

Boaty McBoatface is actually very representative of the "democratic" process in our societies: people vote, but ultimately their voice doesn't matter one jot, and the powers that be impose whatever the hell they want.

The inevitable conclusion, in politics as in silly internet ship-naming polls, is: why vote at all then? The deciders don't really need our opinion, now, do they?

Actually I was thinking this is kind of like what happens when you ask a bunch of toddlers to vote on "What do you want for lunch?" The choice will almost always be 'candy' or 'cookies'.

No, you don't ask toddlers open questions like this and give them free reign to choose whatever they want; you let them choose between a restricted set of alternatives.

And this is what you get when you let the Internet community (a bunch of toddlers) invent the names to vote for. What they should have done was generate a list of potential names and let people (toddlers) vote for one of them.

And, yes, the Internet 'community' may as well be a bunch of toddlers.

Re:Strange irony

[Fragnet]

In what way was the name inappropriate, except insofar as it concerns the utter humourless pomposity of bureaucrats and scientists?

Re:Strange irony

[jklovanc]

The difference is that this is an online poll that anyone who knew about it could vote. There were many posts to the site encouraging people to vote for "Boaty McBoatface". It is a nonsense poll with no consequences as most of the people who voted for "Boaty MvBoatface" thought it would never get that name and voted just for the fun of it.
Votes in a real election are far more important and far better considered when cast.

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

Why all this toddler hate? I was a pretty conscientious toddler. My daughter, when faced with what to have considers nutrition among other factors in her choices. I think only some people get smarter with age. Most don't.

Re:Strange irony

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

Actually I was thinking this is kind of like what happens when you ask a bunch of toddlers to vote on "What do you want for lunch?" The choice will almost always be 'candy' or 'cookies'. No, you don't ask toddlers open questions like this and give them free reign to choose whatever they want; [...]

Considering our rulers do exactly the same in real life (ask the public to choose and then do something else altogether), do I deduce from your comment that they consider their constituents to be immature toddlers?

You prove my point: don't you see how incredibly patronizing that is?

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

You say this, yet Drumpf is still the nominee...

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

They really should have gone through the motions of naming it Boaty McBoatface and then immediately changed the name to Attenborough. That would have given a nod to the vote, a nod to the humor, gotten them some decent press, then gotten a reasonable name for the ship. They could even have sold shirts with pictures of the ship saying the new name with the caption of "The Ship formerly known as Boaty McBoatface...".

Re:Strange irony

[DaHat]

You continue mock, yet do not see how your mockery of his name didn't matter in the slightest.

I can't stand the man myself, but I at least understood this.

Re: Strange irony

[omnichad]

Votes in a real election are far more important and far better considered when cast.

Then how do you explain Trump?

Re:Strange irony

[balbeir]

Looking at how far Trump got here in the USA, I think he has a good point.

Re: Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed. I'd argue that changes in our society over the past 50? 100? Years have changed most from citizens to the toddlers you mention. Uninvolved, dumbed down consumers.

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes - the same toddler-equivalents who thought it'd be cute / funny / delightful to name a boat "Boaty McBoatface."

Here's the thing - if you're going to piss and moan about being treated like a toddler, don't stand around declaiming the rights of people to act like toddlers, and get their way because "majority rules, man."

If you ACT like a toddler, you will be TREATED like a toddler.

And be careful what you wish for - I'm pretty sure you won't like direct democracy the moment your views are outside the mainstream.

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

It's a stupid, silly name, utterly tasteless and lacking class.
I'd have still voted for it because it's so funny.

Re:Strange irony

[AthanasiusKircher]

In what way was the name inappropriate, except insofar as it concerns the utter humourless pomposity of bureaucrats and scientists?

(1) I know quite a few scientists. While they may not have the same sense of humor as the average person, they often have a quite well-developed (if sometimes weird) sense of humor. Bureaucrats? That's a different story...

(2) While I find this whole situation funny, I do think the name is a bit inappropriate for a long-term thing in a serious scientific research ship. Maybe they could have named it that for a day or a week or something, just to honor the silliness (and get some media attention), and then renamed it something more "serious" for the rest of its lifespan.

But naming it "Boaty McBoatface" for the long term? Can you imagine a scientist who worked on that ship and putting that on your resume? I don't know what you do for a living, but supposing you're a programmer, imagine that some serious research project that you put years of your life into was given the official designation "Codey McCodeface," and when you tried to get other jobs or talk to people in other fields, you had to use that name to tell them what you had invested your work in. "What was your project?!? What, were you one of the idiots who worked on Clippy??"

Would some people find it funny? Sure. But there are way too many people in the word who make a distinction between times for humor and times to "act like a grown-up." That's the reality of the world. How would you feel if you lost a job or were denied interviews because people who didn't know about your company's "Codey McCodeface" joke thought you weren't a serious candidate when you submitted your resume or mentioned it in an interview?

And, sure -- if you're secure in your career at the moment, you might say, "Well, I wouldn't want to work for those humorless idiots anyway." That's all well and good until you really need a job. Or you're a scientist up for tenure or some significant prize, and someone who doesn't read the news sees you did research on "Boaty McBoatface."

We have social and linguistic conventions in the world. It's generally frowned upon to show up to a funeral dressed in ripped jeans and a tee-shirt, unless that's something the family is cool with. It's generally frowned upon to swear repeatedly in front of a bunch of little kids who aren't your own.

And it's generally appropriate to follow tradition in choosing names for major sea vessels from certain kinds of linguistic categories. That's just the way the world is... when you get your own ship, you can name it what you want.

Re: Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

She was elected to the US Senate and served as Secretary of State.

Re:Strange irony

[jmcvetta]

Elites don't believe in democracy. No surprise here.

Re: Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

I know, it doesn't make sense. He's not promising any handouts!

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

Serious science could have made the name respectable, not the other way round.

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

Here is where the analogy halts.

Eating cookies and candy for dinner isn't good for you.
There is no harm done by naming the boat Boaty McBoatface. It is not even offensive.
In fact the name could even be more beneficial than the alternatives since it gives more publicity and might inspire younger people to be more interested in science.

In this case we get a worse alternative because of people taking themselves too seriously to go for a better option.

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

And sometimes the "deciders" need to use some common sense, because the voters vote for things that are obviously inappropriate...

Like Trump?

Re: Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

She was elected to the US Senate as a carpet bagger with limited connections to New York and served as Secretary of State during a time the middle-east caught on fire, one that has still not gone out.

FTFY

So getting elected or appointed to a particular job or two somehow immediately qualifies you for a higher one?

Talk about failing upwards!

Re:Strange irony

[Sarten-X]

Then Slashdotters would whine about the bloat of government, and how very much money was wasted on what was effectively a joke.

Re:Strange irony

[nbauman]

(2) While I find this whole situation funny, I do think the name is a bit inappropriate for a long-term thing in a serious scientific research ship. Maybe they could have named it that for a day or a week or something, just to honor the silliness (and get some media attention), and then renamed it something more "serious" for the rest of its lifespan.

But naming it "Boaty McBoatface" for the long term? Can you imagine a scientist who worked on that ship and putting that on your resume? I don't know what you do for a living, but supposing you're a programmer, imagine that some serious research project that you put years of your life into was given the official designation "Codey McCodeface," and when you tried to get other jobs or talk to people in other fields, you had to use that name to tell them what you had invested your work in. "What was your project?!? What, were you one of the idiots who worked on Clippy??"

You really think there is a problem with a scientist having silly names on his/her resume?

http://bitesizebio.com/23221/1...

14 of the Funniest Fruit Fly Gene Names
By Shruti Iyer
- 2nd March, 2015

Fruit flies (Drosophila Melanogaster) are the favourite model organisms of most geneticists, since researchers consider Drosophila melanogaster as “the poster child for genetics” because of the ease at which they can be manipulated and the spped at which effects can be observed. These sticky insect are obviously very different to humans, but studying them is stil beneficial as they carry many genes which are orthologs to the genes in vertebrates.

When I started research in Fruit Fly Genetics research I found it fascinating to learn about the mutant fruit fly names, which range from funny to slightly disturbing.
Here is the list of some interesting mutant gene names and their functions.

1. Indy gene (I‘m Not Dead Yet)

The indy gene encodes for an intermediate transporter protein in the Krebs Cycle; flies with mutations in this gene have longer than average lifespan.1,2 There is some controversy surrounding this gene, with reports that mutation does not result in increased longevity.3

2. Boss gene (Bride Of Sevenless)

Boss gene encodes a cell-surface receptor tyrosine kinase and this gene helps in photoreceptor cell (R-cell) development in the Drosophila compound eye. The flies carrying mutation in Boss gene fails to differentiate into a specific photoreceptor cell type called R7 cell.4 Bride of Sevenless gets its name from being the ligand which is binds to Sevenless,5,6 and is thus married to it.

3. Ken and Barbie

This gene encodes a putative transcription factor that functions in treminalia development in the fruit fly. Mutation in this gene leads to malformation in fruit fly’s genitalia development, meaning they lack external genitalia, just like our faithful Ken and Barbie dolls.7

4. Cheap Date

Flies with a mutation in this gene are very susceptible to alcohol.8 Interestingly, this gene is alternatively known as Amnesiac, since mutations in this gene also causes memory impairment.9

5. Lush

Flies with mutant LUSH gene are unusually attracted ethanol, propanol and butanol but have normal chemosensory responses to other odorants.10

6. Halloween Genes

This group of genes includes disembodied, spook, spookier, shadow, shade, shroud and phantom and all encode P450 enzymes which are involved in the synthesis of steroid hormones.11 Flies with mutations in Halloween Genes have altered exoskeleton development, giving the embryos a spooky appearance.

7. 18 Wheeler

This gene encodes a Toll-like receptor (TLR) and mutations in this gene result in defect in salivary gland invagination.12 This gene gets its name due to the segmented expression pattern which is thought to resemble a tarpaulin covering an 18-wheeler truck.

8. Tinman

Re: Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

She was elected to the US Senate and served as Secretary of State.

"Served" doesn't fit in that sentence, because none of her actions advanced the interests of the USA.

No, she wasn't acting as a public servant (as either Senator or S of State), but acted as though she were plenipotentiary RULER.

Re: Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

I think he was talking about German voters. Oh, wait.

Re:Strange irony

[nbauman]

And sometimes the "deciders" need to use some common sense, because the voters vote for things that are obviously inappropriate...

“I don't see why we need to stand by and watch a country go communist due to the irresponsibility of its people. The issues are much too important for the Chilean voters to be left to decide for themselves.” -- Henry Kissinger

Re: Strange irony

[reboot246]

She was elected once to the Senate because she ran against token resistance and had a "name" her husband made famous. She was appointed as Secretary of State by Obama to keep her placated after he beat her for the nomination. She's never really accomplished anything on her own. She's always been at the right place at the right time and more of less "fell" into success.

She'll lie even when the truth would suffice. Named after Sir Edmund Hillary? Dodged sniper fire? On and on and on the lies accumulate.

Talk about THE poster child for white privilege!

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

Oh! Hey, I watch John Oliver too!

We must both be perceptive liberal smart-cookies who no doubt get more ass than a toilet seat!

LOL! LOL! FEEL THE BERN BRUH!

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

Boaty McBoatface is actually very representative of the "democratic" process in our societies: people vote, but ultimately their voice doesn't matter one jot, and the powers that be impose whatever the hell they want.

The inevitable conclusion, in politics as in silly internet ship-naming polls, is: why vote at all then? The deciders don't really need our opinion, now, do they?

Actually I was thinking this is kind of like what happens when you ask a bunch of toddlers to vote on "What do you want for lunch?" The choice will almost always be 'candy' or 'cookies'.

No, you don't ask toddlers open questions like this and give them free reign to choose whatever they want; you let them choose between a restricted set of alternatives.

And this is what you get when you let the Internet community (a bunch of toddlers) invent the names to vote for. What they should have done was generate a list of potential names and let people (toddlers) vote for one of them.

And, yes, the Internet 'community' may as well be a bunch of toddlers.

I was thinking it was like what happens when a news announcer on TV says, "What do you think of this story? Join the discussion on our Facebook page." They don't care about your actual opinion, but maybe the noise of the rabble will point them in some direction for their next story.

Re:Strange irony

[Dunbal]

why vote at all then?

Because there is a significant number of stupid people (at least half the population, quite by definition assuming a normal distribution) who think that despite all this, their "vote" is the most holy and important thing in the world and is the basis of their freedom. If you take the illusion away, why, there's nothing left at all. So occasionally things like this will happen in which case you plan another circus or toss them some bread or ideally both at the same time, and the plunder of society can continue when they settle down again.

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

And what is wrong with a silly, stupid, tasteless, classless name that is nonetheless quite humorous and popular?

I guarantee I'll forget about Attenbwhatever before I even finish typing this comment.

Re: Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

1) People who genuinely want Trump to be the next president based on what they imagine he'll do once there.

2) People who think Trump can't possibly win against Hillary and who for some reason think Hillary ought to be the next president.

People in category 2 are a special kind of stupid. On the path to being the presumptive Republican nominee, he cleared a lot of milestones marked, "Trump can't possibly get here" and their act of voting for Trump only boosts his brand, increasing the chance he'll actually be president; .

If you're going to crossover, you should only ever vote for someone you could tolerate as the president. One notes that in the extreme case where everyone crosses over to vote for spoiler candidates, you end up with two candidates everyone agrees shouldn't ever make it into office.

Re:Strange irony

[amicusNYCL]

While I find this whole situation funny, I do think the name is a bit inappropriate for a long-term thing in a serious scientific research ship. Maybe they could have named it that for a day or a week or something, just to honor the silliness (and get some media attention), and then renamed it something more "serious" for the rest of its lifespan.

That's why I cast my vote for RRS Serious Science Boat.

In all seriousness though, since this is very serious business, they should paint a cartoon face on the bow of the ship before they launch it. Their goal was to promote public interest in the ship and its mission, throwing away the free PR would sort of defeat that purpose. Naming the ROV "Boaty" was a nice touch though.

Re: Strange irony

[Frank Burly]

She got a law degree from Yale, which a lot of people find impressive.

She helped build civil rights cases in the South, which a lot of people find admirable.

She was actually re-elected to the Senate—so elected twice.

If the her appointment as SoS was to placate her, then presumably she built enough genuine support to need placating (nobody is placating Cruz or Kaisch, after all).

Very few people at that level can claim to have done it on their own. Trump is the son of a millionaire real estate developer (who's ROI is less than an index fund would have produced); Romney is the son of a millionaire industrialist and governor; McCain's father was an admiral and his wife is a beer heiress; George W is the son of a President and his father is the son of a wealthy banker and senator.

I hope you didn't accidentally vote for any of these people!

Re: Strange irony

[jklovanc]

The exception that proves the rule?

Re:Strange irony

[thegarbz]

Boaty McBoatface is actually very representative of the "democratic" process in our societies: people vote, but ultimately their voice doesn't matter one jot, and the powers that be impose whatever the hell they want.

The inevitable conclusion, in politics as in silly internet ship-naming polls, is: why vote at all then? The deciders don't really need our opinion, now, do they?

You're voted funny but really you should be voted "+5 crying for the human race". This is representative of our votes in more than one way. Not only is it representative because the majority was overruled by someone who didn't like the outcome, but the democratic process itself turned into a joke where the least serious answer gets picked for a laugh.

I predict Trump 2016 - For the Lulz.

Re:Strange irony

[SvnLyrBrto]

But naming it "Boaty McBoatface" for the long term? Can you imagine a scientist who worked on that ship and putting that on your resume? I don't know what you do for a living, but supposing you're a programmer, imagine that some serious research project that you put years of your life into was given the official designation "Codey McCodeface," and when you tried to get other jobs or talk to people in other fields, you had to use that name to tell them what you had invested your work in. "What was your project?!? What, were you one of the idiots who worked on Clippy??"

Have you seen the ridiculous-sounding names of some companies these days? Do you remember the one from the dotcom days? Silly names like "Yik Yak" or "Yahoo!" are fairly common; as are made-up non-words like "Inktomi", as are deliberate misspellings like "Google" and random words that have nothing to do with their product or place in the market "Amazon". In the 1970s, "Apple" was a silly name for a computer company. A more "dignified" and "proper" name contemporary to the era would have been something like "Cuper-Tech" or "J&W Computers". No one looking at your resume cares about the name of your employers. They care about what you did at the company, and what you can do for your new company.

Re: Strange irony

[bestweasel]

"people vote, but ultimately their voice doesn't matter one jot, and the powers that be impose whatever the hell they want."

This is more true in situations where there's no accountability, like businesses ("We have taken your views on board"), totalitarian regimes like Egypt or internet polls.

The more subtle way is to constrain the choices available before letting the voters have their say so they're more likely to pick a suitable candidate.

In the US, the establishment decided to play safe and reboot the Bush Clinton franchise (or something like it) but this time it went wrong and independent voices were too loud to ignore. They're still on course, I expect Hillary will win but it would be fascinating to see Sanders v Trump, though even they would still be constrained by the usual forces.

As for BMcB, just for once, it would have been nice for silliness to triumph. How much would it have shaken the foundations of civilization or damaged the UK's standing in the world?

I guess it's the tendency of those in charge to want to appear to be in control of everything - part of which is being serious and keeping a straight face - lest others question their competence.

Re: Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

If you've never heard of David Attenborough, I pity you.

Re: Strange irony

[bestweasel]

Not sure they've done very well on promoting the research. All I've seen in the media is Boaty McBoatface, £200 million NERC polar research vessel, doing research in the poles, taking samples, er that's it.

Obviously there will now not be any BMcB kiddies club, soft toys or cartoon science series on the TV, or much interest at all, unless it sinks.

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

> when you get your own ship, you can name it what you want.

As long as you don't want to name your sailboat "Donkey Kong".

Re:Strange irony

[JoeMerchant]

My high school graduation song was voted on in a similar fashion, landslide victory to Sister Christian (1984), but the powers that be decided we wouldn't be playing that at the graduation and instead would have a song the choir could sing. So, why did they put it to a vote in the first place? Mostly to teach us this lesson in life, I suppose.

Re:Strange irony

[JoeMerchant]

Serious science could have made the name respectable, not the other way round.

Now you're talking about how the world should be, not how it is be.

Re:Strange irony

[JoeMerchant]

What I find sad is that they only partially named the sub after the internet vote... a ship of that size surely has a life raft or maybe a small launch that could be named straight up "Boaty McBoatface" along with a plaque describing how and when that came to be.

Not that Sir David doesn't rock, he does, and he deserves the big boat.

Re:Strange irony

[vux984]

But naming it "Boaty McBoatface" for the long term? Can you imagine a scientist who worked on that ship and putting that on your resume?

Yes. If I were a scientist who worked on that ship, I'd still put boaty mcboatface at least in parenthesis.

Why? Because nobody on the planet has heard of Attenblawhrawwatever, and few ever will. I'll put that name on too of course, but if I mention Boaty McBoatface -- it maybe a "stupid" name, but its a celebrity name all the same. If I put I worked on Boaty McBoatface... everyone knows THAT boat. Its not 'just another research vessel' ... its Boaty!

Re: Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

Can you imagine if they named element 74 "tungsten" instead of "wolfram"? Oh, wait, they did, and yet somehow the world didn't implode...

Re: Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

It's bad luck to rename a ship, you know.

Re:Strange irony

[geoskd]

Boaty McBoatface is actually very representative of the "democratic" process in our societies: people vote, but ultimately their voice doesn't matter one jot, and the powers that be impose whatever the hell they want.

It should also be noted that left to their own devices, the masses will often choose a downright retarded option...

In fact, when you think about it, this is a prime example of why people *shouldn't* have democracy. They're unwilling or unable to handle the responsibility.

Re:Strange irony

[drinkypoo]

No, you don't ask toddlers open questions like this and give them free reign [...] yes, the Internet 'community' may as well be a bunch of toddlers.

Yeah, you can't expect toddlers to understand horses.

Re:Strange irony

[Cyberpunk Reality]

Equally, it's "very representative" in that voters put little thought or concern for quality and the future into their decisions, instead following the crowd and supporting ideas because they're popular and/or amusing, without regard for their actual merit.

Re:Strange irony

[Excelcia]

I would entirely justified completely ignoring the 124000 morons that voted for Boaty McBoatface. Why have the vote? They thought people would take it seriously and wanted genuine engagement. They, unfortunately, didn't count on the moronic factor.

Goes to show people will vote for anything. It's why the US is facing a Trump presidency.

Actually, maybe that would be a good thing. In four years those that remain in the smoking crater of the US will be an example to the rest of the world of what happens when you abuse your vote.

Re:Strange irony

[myowntrueself]

Actually I was thinking this is kind of like what happens when you ask a bunch of toddlers to vote on "What do you want for lunch?" The choice will almost always be 'candy' or 'cookies'. No, you don't ask toddlers open questions like this and give them free reign to choose whatever they want; [...]

Considering our rulers do exactly the same in real life (ask the public to choose and then do something else altogether), do I deduce from your comment that they consider their constituents to be immature toddlers?

You prove my point: don't you see how incredibly patronizing that is?

Its in the interest of nanny state for its population to depend on nanny state. To that end it encourages people to grow up into big babies.

Re:Strange irony

[myowntrueself]

Here is where the analogy halts.

Eating cookies and candy for dinner isn't good for you.
There is no harm done by naming the boat Boaty McBoatface. It is not even offensive.
In fact the name could even be more beneficial than the alternatives since it gives more publicity and might inspire younger people to be more interested in science.

In this case we get a worse alternative because of people taking themselves too seriously to go for a better option.

Actually whats surprising is that the 'winner' was as mature as 'Boaty McBoatface'.

In fact my guess is that the real top entry was more like "poopy bum" or "fuck face" and that these got censored out.

Re: Strange irony

[andyteleco]

I think the Swiss are doing pretty well and would disagree with what you say.

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

David Attemborough is more famous than you can imagine. The Blue Planet BBC nature documentary was groundbreaking, and spawned all of the renewed interest in environmental themes and several (dozen) pixar movies among other ripple influences.

Re:Strange irony

[Jeremi]

You prove my point: don't you see how incredibly patronizing that is?

Patronizing it may be, but if the shoe fits, wear it.

Fact #1: The Internet voters did, in fact, nominate and then vote for "Boaty McBoatFace".

Fact #2: The Republican primary voters did, in fact, vote to nominate Donald Trump, who just today has suggested he might just go ahead and default on the nation's debt in order to save us money, because he literally thinks that is how government fiscal policy works.

Let's face it, voters are often not well-informed, competent, or thinking rationally. Direct Democracy would work if they were, but that's simply not how the world works, and that's why we don't see any countries based on Direct Democracy. Given that, there is indeed value in restricting voter's choices to include only viable, non-disastrous options. Would you go to a restaurant that put Hemlock soup on the menu? Would you buy a car with gas, brake, and self-destruct pedals? Would you call it patronizing if a company refused to sell you those things?

Re: Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

They could still make the cartoon series, but with Boaty as the ROV (David Tennant, Gordon Buchanan or Susan Calman narrating as surely BMcB must be Scottish) with Sir David A as the voice of the eponymous parent vessel.

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

It was a fucking stupid name, you imbecile.

Re: Strange irony

[Plus1Entropy]

The middle east caught fire in 2003, when we lit the fucking match ourselves.

Re:Strange irony

[Aighearach]

It wasn't an election, it was a tabulated public survey designed to give the selection committee better feedback to instruct the process.

That more people voted to troll them than to give serious feedback in no way interfered with the intended process. They simply ignored the trolls, and selected the most popular name that was consistent with the other elements of the selection process, such as honoring somebody British.

Similarly, in a real election if you write in the name of a cartoon character, the cartoon isn't actually eligible.

This doesn't tell you anything about democratic processes; your complaints about them are universal; you can say that no matter what happens in an election. (and a few people do)

Re:Strange irony

[Aighearach]

The benefit isn't open-ended; most of the benefit of the PR is in the people who actually give a shit. If the people who don't give a shit look and point, that is harmless fun but perhaps not actually useful to their mission.

Re:Strange irony

[Aighearach]

David Attenborough remains vastly more well-known than McBoatface ever was. The entire educated English-speaking world knows who he is! A few people on the internet, news junkies, and locals in the UK know about Boatface.

Re:Strange irony

[vux984]

"David Attenborough remains vastly more well-known than McBoatface ever was"

1) And its thinking like this that got me moded flamebait above.

But this really has little to do with *him* as a person; its merely a boat named after him. And nobody knows anything about the BOAT "David Attenborough".

It'd be like naming a boat Putin; everybody on the planet knows who Putin is... but they don't know anything about the boat.

*Everyone's* heard of the *boat* that might have been called "Boaty McBoatface".

2) I think you overestimate Attenborough's fame. He's apparently a national treasure in Britain; but no I'd never heard of him, and while that sets me up for the obvious "entire educated English speaking world knows who he is therefor I'm not educated" riposte, I disagree; he's not nearly as well known as you seem to think.

Re:Strange irony

[Aighearach]

There is nothing "holy" about taking a poll for an advisory purpose, as was the case here. That you didn't understand, didn't check, and presumed something "holy" was violated says a lot about you, and nothing at all about the intended, published system they were using to name the ship.

Re:Strange irony

[Aighearach]

Even in google,
David Attenborough: About 3,090,000 results
Boaty McBoatface: About 761,000 results

Nobody is going to actually know anything about the ship except the people who work on it. That's the reality of working on a science ship. The whole point was to decide who or what to honor. There is no TV or movie deal to hype.

Re:Strange irony

[plasm4]

Not only humourless but unimaginative. It would have been a great gimmick for marketing science to children. Boaty could have had his own animated television series.

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually the world is a lot like that.
Google and Yahoo were equally silly names. Both are names for search engines. One did a good job and one didn't.
Today Yahoo remains a silly name while Google is a more respectable name.

Re:Strange irony

[Dunbal]

Yup. Quite firmly on the left side of the curve.

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

They could at least have merged the two names and called the boat "David Boatie"

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes - the same toddler-equivalents who thought it'd be cute / funny / delightful to name a boat "Boaty McBoatface."

I see you lack a fine understanding of what passes for humour in Britain, although we do sarcasm rather well and are quite fond of archaia, we are also quite partial to a good out-and-out farce.

In the vernacular, this was an example of 'taking the piss'

From the point of view of a lot of the people doing the voting they had someone who had just spent £200m of their tax money on what they regard as a boondoggle asking the great unwashed for suggestions for a name for said boondoggle..
An opportunity for mockery was thus presented, so the great unwashed, as they say, 'ran with it'.
TPTB took it all on the chin (after all, self deprecating humour is also a bit of a British pastime), and as both the voters and TPTB don't really care that much at the end of the day about the name of a boat, the name was changed to a 'politically' neutral (and more apposite) one, and life goes on...

All this 'toddler-equivalent' talk is a lot more telling about your mentality than that of the voters.

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

> Let's face it, voters are often not well-informed, competent, or thinking rationally.

This is also the argument used by people largely vested in the status quo who polarise with invective hyperbole against anyone outside their groupthink clusterfuck.

I'm sure you're not one of them, and are happy to engage is reasoned debate. So for example, what credentials or experience do you have that indicates you have a better understanding of fiscal policy (and what money and debt really are) than Mr. Trump?

Re: Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you! You are right. They could have named the boat dickshit and and it shouldn't matter as long as the research that comes out if the project is worthwhile. Do you know how many scientific papers have goofy titles just to get attention? Nobody cares as long as what is presented in it has value. The problem is political. I agree with those that talk about how this demonstrated the failures of democracy as practiced in western nations. They tell us to vote while showing us our votes don't matter anyway. Boaty McBoatface is the Democratic choice! Boaty McBoatface for president!

Re: Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

Who cares? His game doesn't change the fact that they asked people to vote on a name, people voted and they ignored the vote. If anything, they are disrespecting f his memory by making his name synonymous with anti-democratic actions. Shame on them.

Re:Strange irony

[Hognoxious]

Personal preference, but I don't think you should name ships after living people, even ones who rock.

I'd have voted for "Katherine Giles" http://www.theguardian.com/uk/...

Re:Strange irony

[pla]

What, exactly, do you consider "inappropriate" about "Boaty McBoatface"? Racist? Slanderous? Culturally insensitive? Hurtful to people you'd describe as having a nose like a cheating Australian's winged keel?

If you ask the people to make your decisions for you, you need to accept when they don't agree with your first choice. No one would have cared in the least if they had skipped the vote entirely and unilaterally named it the Attenborough; but giving the illusion of a choice and then ignoring it really pisses people off.

/ Long live Butterstick!

Re:Strange irony

[JoeMerchant]

Attenborough is effectively immortal. He already looks to be on death's door, and he's in so many hundreds of hours of video programs that are distributed globally and widely viewed, there will be a minor splash when he does really die, but his legend will live on, virtually unchanged after he is gone.

Re:Strange irony

[mjwx]

Boaty McBoatface is actually very representative of the "democratic" process in our societies: people vote, but ultimately their voice doesn't matter one jot, and the powers that be impose whatever the hell they want.

The inevitable conclusion, in politics as in silly internet ship-naming polls, is: why vote at all then? The deciders don't really need our opinion, now, do they?

Yes, this is a complete subversion of democracy.

Signed, Votey McVoteface.

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

An opportunity for mockery was thus presented, so the great unwashed, as they say, 'ran with it'.

I see you lack a fine understanding of what passes for logic in the world.

This was not a vote restricted to only brits. The votes and recommendations came from all over the world. And this vote is simply evidence that the internet is full of toddlers who will enjoy "taking the piss" because the outcome has no impact on them in their secure basement enclaves.

If the voting and naming was restricted only to British subjects, perhaps you'd have a point about this being some sort of populist uprising. But since that's not the case, any suggestion that this was some sort of "British little guy" standing up to THE MAN is fatuous, and ridiculous.

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

Trump 2016

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

hoy butthole, why have an open vote then? would it be appropriate to have an open vote for a song at a funeral? what about the text on the tombstone?

that is the inappropriate part, not that someone took part in voting.

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

2) I think you overestimate Attenborough's fame. He's apparently a national treasure in Britain; but no I'd never heard of him, and while that sets me up for the obvious "entire educated English speaking world knows who he is therefor I'm not educated" riposte, I disagree; he's not nearly as well known as you seem to think.

I've heard of him, but I'm 50 and have always enjoyed watching nature shows. I'm also American, I'm not sure he's a household name among people half my age of which there are a lot.

I follow BBC Breaking News on Twitter - I don't tweet, and I don't usually read others replies to BBC, but I clicked to see what people had to say about this.

The first was complaining that the name Attenborough was "boring". I don't understand that. I never thought of Attenborough as "boring" and I fail to see why the silly name is NOT boring, other than maybe for a split second when you first hear it and think "OMG, yeah that's seriously the name of a research vessel."

AFAIK, David Attenborough has never appeared on American Idol or DWTS or Honey Boo Boo so I'm sure a lot of Americans don't have any idea who he is.

Re:Strange irony

[8086]

All the examples you gave are for computer companies and it is acceptable for them to have funny/pointless names but this does not always extend to enterprises in other sciences, especially those where real physical objects and real (sometimes public) money is involved. The problem is that at the end of the day you need to be able to sell it to grumpy old men who do not have the training/mental capacity to understand the importance of the actual science and all they can see is balance sheets and the name. Say you're on a senate floor and trying to argue for more funding for this research ship. You give a well prepared 10 minute speech on how it can benefit society, only to be shot down by a simple jab at the funny name of the ship: "While Mr. XYZ wants to spend our outstretched budget on pipe dreams and Boaty McBoat, what about the poor, hungry and disrobed on our streets?". David Attenborough goes a long way in decreasing the impact of that sentence.

Research that does not have short term results is fighting an uphill battle for funding in these times because most countries that can afford to pay for such research have unbalanced budgets and are still operating in recession mode, i.e. 0% or nearly 0% interest rates. At a time like this, it is prudent to have a name for this research vessel that can be used in all contexts even if it may come at the cost of being seen as humorless or old fashioned. You can't compare a privately funded here today gone tomorrow software company with a publicly funded research juggernaut.

That said, I do look forward to a time when all those old men are dead, people are playing super smash brothers and dubstep at retirement homes, and someone has the gall to name a space rocket Dicky McDickface.

Re:Strange irony

[quantaman]

Boaty McBoatface is actually very representative of the "democratic" process in our societies: people vote, but ultimately their voice doesn't matter one jot, and the powers that be impose whatever the hell they want.

The inevitable conclusion, in politics as in silly internet ship-naming polls, is: why vote at all then? The deciders don't really need our opinion, now, do they?

This is distinctly different from the democratic process.

People didn't vote for Boaty McBoatface because they thought it was a better name. The voted for it because it was a good joke.

The idea that the British government would ask the Internet for a vessel's name and the Internet would tell them "Boaty McBoatface" is hilarious and it's great that people made that joke.

But now the joke was made and it's time to move on. There's a good reason you don't give things joke names, jokes get old and annoying so "Boaty McBoatface" will very quickly go from "haha! the Internet!" to "please don't say that stupid bloody name again".

So the Internet got a great joke and the Sir David Attenborough ended up with a great name, leave this as a win-win and stop trying to drag it through your political philosophy.

Re:Strange irony

[vux984]

That doesn't refute my argument at all. Just as with my Putin example... everyone in the world knows who Putin in, but if there's also boat by that name somewhere practically nobody knows anything about it.

Meanwhile there are 761,000 results in google that are about Boaty McBoatface, the boat itself, and that celebrity was generated and the boat wasn't even named yet.

Re:Strange irony

[SNRatio]

But oddly not very representative in another way: "Boaty McBoatface" would have been a huge moneymaker for NERC: t-shirts, mugs, materials sent to prospective donors ... At this point organizations are usually keenly aware when there is money sitting on the table to be grabbed. If they didn't go with Boaty, it should have been named for someone willing to cough up several million for the naming rights.

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes, but so what?
He was a TV exec and did some nature programmes during a long career which were paid for by the taxpayer, and provided him with a nice lifestyle and the ability to have a large house and more than replacement children. He believes in population control for the rest of you, and is green... except for his own travel is concerned.

Does that make him a saint?

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

If votes usually counted for something, I'm sure the result of this poll would have been a plethora of reasonable names in the top dozen places.

People used this poll to show how ridiculous voting has become.

Re:Strange irony

[Anonymous Coward]

A reasonable compromise would be to paint on the side of the ship something like "RRS Sir David Attenborough" and then underneath write "(Boaty McBoatface)" in smaller letters.

That way its official title is something "sensible" and "grown up", but the more light-hearted name can be considered a "nickname".

It's likely that this will happen whether or not it's painted on the side of it, but acknowledging the nickname officially would probably help the Great British public feel more connected to their navy and its important research duties.

(I'd still love to hear the Queen say "Boaty McBoatface" when launching the ship!)

Re:Strange irony

[Aighearach]

I didn't claim to "refute" your argument. I contradicted it. I stand by what I said; it isn't the sort of disagreement that is susceptible to refutation because there is too much of a subjective element.

You're just as wrong after denying "refutation" as before. David Attenborough remains more well-known than McBoatface ever was, and the difference in their popularity will increase drastically even just in the next month as people forget about Boaty and his relatively small contribution to British culture.

You didn't make any sort of argument that involves the ship being more well-known if it was named Boaty. It will not be well known, regardless of the name. After the fad has faded, a ship with a silly name would just become a ship with a silly meaningless name to most people. Since so many more people know who Sir David Attenborough is than will ever know the name of any science ship, there is significantly greater chance that people will remember that particular ship because of his name. So if you were to attempt such an argument, it would probably fail. But you didn't.

Furthermore, who cares about the popularity of the ship? The point was to choose who to honor with the name plate. The popularity issue that is relevant is only which cultural icon has more public demand to be honored. That there are more people who are interested in comedy than honoring cultural icons is neither a surprise, nor relevant to those making decisions about who to honor. If the goofy people had actually intended to honor comedy, they'd have voted for the name to be Rowan Atkinson, or at least the RRS Bean.

In any case, they did actually name one of the submarines Boaty McBoatface.

Re: Strange irony

[samwichse]

In context: Hilary's parents:

Her mother is the daughter of a Chicago fireman, who became a homemaker.
Her father is the son of a Scranton-born textile mogul, who later ran for Chicago alderman.

Re: Strange irony

[Frank Burly]

The fact that HRC's father "[Hugh] Rodham found work there selling drapery fabrics around the Midwest, sending the money he made back home," suggests that he was not the son of a textile mogul. http://www.nytimes.com/1993/04...

If he were really the son of a textile mogul, I doubt he would have become a traveling salesman, and I doubt that he would have sent the money home for his parents to live on.

This isn't something I've researched beyond 5 minutes of googling, so if I am missing something, let me know. But both Wikipedia and the NYT obit of HRC's father indicate that HRC's paternal grandfather was merely an employee of the textile mill where HRC's father worked before becoming a traveling salesman.

However Hough Rodham did well enough to retire from business at 59, so he may have wound up fairly well off.

Re:Strange irony

[amicusNYCL]

They could use it for fund-raising. Come take a tour of Boaty and buy a shirt.

Re: Strange irony

[samwichse]

Yes, I managed to drop the part of that sentence that makes it true: "immigrant, and was a"

Should read: "Her father is the son of an [immigrant, and was a] Scranton-born textile mogul, who later ran for Chicago alderman."

Oops.

Re:Strange irony

[Aighearach]

Once you count up the cost of the event, and the actual limit to how many people can tour the ship, and the value of the equipment on the ship, it might turn out to cost more to have the ship parked for tours than you're actually making off of it.

People seem to just presume that popularity = dollars, but that isn't automatically true. If it was a cargo ship, they could almost certainly make more than the operating costs of the tour, but perhaps still not enough to justify parking the ship to do the tour.

False Advertising

[BitZtream]

Not sure about Europe or the UK specifically, but this sounds like a prime example of false advertising.

'Hey, we'll name this ship after the most popular name'

and then

'yea, we don't like that name, so we're just going to use the one we picked before we faked the online poll'

Good job guys, you show that you have absolutely no respect for others and won't follow through on the statements you make. Good publicity.

Maybe you shouldn't have been so fucking stupid as to do a trendy online poll if you weren't willing to follow through with the trendy result. Dumbass.

Re:False Advertising

[Anonymous Coward]

yea, we don't like that one, so we're just going to use the one we picked before we faked the vote

You mean like the Democratic Party Primary?

Re:False Advertising

[jklovanc]

Hey, we'll name this ship after the most popular name'

Did they really say that or something closer to "We will your your votes to help us pick the name"?

Re:False Advertising

[HuskyDog]

As I understand it, it was always perfectly clear that the vote was not binding and merely a mechanism to collect suggestions. David Attenborough did get a substantial number of votes and those who voted for that name were probably rather more interested in suitably naming a polar research vessel than just having a laugh.

Having said that, allowing a completely open vote online rather than allowing people to choose from a short list was clearly a daft idea and asking for trouble. They were lucky that the most popular name was at least repeatable in polite company.

Politics as usual

[Anonymous Coward]

Let's ask the public what they want! Democracy!
Oh... that's what you want?
No, no you're not getting that.
Democracy!

Shocked

[Anonymous Coward]

I for one am shocked that the eminent scientist Boaty McBoatface's name was superseded by a nature show host. I believe his major discovery was that scuttlebutt is a byproduct of interactions on the poopdeck.

Grammar

[Anonymous Coward]

Fewer votes.

Is he dead?

[rossdee]

Is David Attenborough dead?
You don't normally name a ship after a live person

Re:Is he dead?

[Anonymous Coward]

He's 89, so pretty much. So it's unlikely he'll do anything embarrassing enough to warrant removing the name while he's still alive, and if he does, most things can be shrugged off as he's really old.

Re:Is he dead?

[mrbester]

Elizabeth Regina would raise an eyebrow at that assertion.

Re:Is he dead?

[Aighearach]

While there are certainly lots of naming honors intended solely for dead people, there are lots of others that are suitable for living people. The naming of watercraft traditionally does not require a person to be dead; historically there were many examples named after the person who paid for the ship, or somebody dear to them. There are other examples; buildings are named after dead people if the name is purely honorary, but often after living people if they were involved in the funding; or if their work inspired the building, and they're retired. Or if they're not retired, and will be hired to run the facility.

Most of the Sea Shepherd ships are named after the (living) donors funding them.

Re:Is he dead?

[Malc]

I think this boat will long outlast him!

Re:Is he dead?

[Anonymous Coward]

So you're saying Cunard let the cat out of the bag for the best kept secret in ages that Queen Elizabeth the second was dead before 5 July 1965?

Why are you surprised? They snubbed other names!

[mfarah]

They silently deleted and vetoed the name "Blas de Lezo" after it took the second place and it was on its way to dethrone BMcB, and now you're surprised they snubbed it as well?

ok, fine

[Anonymous Coward]

ok fine, but the next time you ask the Internet to name a research vessel...

Up front about it

[SeattleLawGuy]

They were up front about the fact that a name would have to be approved before it was applied to the ship.

Boaty MacBoatface was obviously never going to be approved. Whatever snowball's chance in hell it might have had despite its deep irreverence toward Her Majesty's navy was eliminated by the fact that it's calling a ship a boat.

You don't call a ship a boat. A boat is little. A ship is big. See, e.g., http://www.marineinsight.com/t...

Re:Up front about it

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't call a ship a boat. A boat is little. A ship is big.

Unless it's a submarine. Submarines are always boats.

Re:Up front about it

[Registered Coward v2]

They were up front about the fact that a name would have to be approved before it was applied to the ship.

Boaty MacBoatface was obviously never going to be approved. Whatever snowball's chance in hell it might have had despite its deep irreverence toward Her Majesty's navy was eliminated by the fact that it's calling a ship a boat.

You don't call a ship a boat. A boat is little. A ship is big. See, e.g., http://www.marineinsight.com/t...

Actually, it's just easier to call them all targets; and leave the boat moniker where it belongs, to submarines.

Re:Up front about it

[frank_adrian314159]

So it should have been called Shippy McShipface?

Re:Up front about it

[ItsJustAPseudonym]

Subby McSubface

Re: Up front about it

[arielCo]

Kinky (;

Re:Up front about it

[I4ko]

They are U-Boot in German, that's why they continue to be boats to this day, short for U-boats in English.

Re:Up front about it

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed. The votes should have been for the RSS Shipfaced.

Re:Up front about it

[wonkey_monkey]

Shippity Doo-dah.

Re: Up front about it

[Anonymous Coward]

Somehow I don't think Shippy McShipface had much chance getting approved either.

Re:Up front about it

[Anonymous Coward]

Well, they could have called it Shippy McShipface, but I expect that would have gone over even more poorly.

Re:Up front about it

[thegarbz]

You don't call a ship a boat. A boat is little. A ship is big.

In what world do you think that the people who proposed Boaty McBoatface cared at all about the distinction between a boat and a ship?

Re:Up front about it

[bmk67]

Fine. Shippy McShipface it is.

Re:Up front about it

[Jiro]

At any rate, if I invite you into my home and say you can have some food from the refrigerator, I don't expect that you will fill a couple of boxes with the entire contents and toss it all in your car to take home, even if I didn't explicitly say "unless it isn't reasonable". There's always an assumed "it isn't reasonable".

I'm not sure this goes under geek social fallacies or geek linguistic fallacies, but the idea that people communicate only by literal worlds and that there is no such thing as context, implication, and assumptions is a geek fallacy I constantly see on the Internet. No, when they say "any name" they do *not* mean literally any name any more than I mean you can literally have every bit of food from my refrigerator, and it's upon you to realize that. You're not being clever by saying "see, I followed your literal words!", you're just being autistic or imitating the autistic.

Re:Up front about it

[Aighearach]

Landing craft are much more numerous than submarines, so it is disingenuous to claim that boat means submarine. Almost every ship includes a bunch of boats. And most small craft are boats, even when not assigned to a ship. Tugs are boats, and outnumber submarines even without the help of life boats.

In the age of sail, anything with less than three masts was a boat. Using that as a standard, all but the largest modern yachts are boats, not ships. Potentially including this class of science vessel. Even when it comes to commercial craft, there are many more fishing boats than factory fishing ships.

Even police boats outnumber submarines.

Sorry land-lubber, you didn't really know that one.

Re:Up front about it

[Malc]

Short for "Unterseeboot", or "Undersea boat" in English.

Re:Up front about it

[Anonymous Coward]

A boat is little. A ship is big.

But a submarine is traditionally a boat and ballistic-missile subs are large.

Re:Up front about it

[Anonymous Coward]

Fine. Shippy McShipface it is.

Right, but that one has to already been taken.

Re:Up front about it

[Registered Coward v2]

Landing craft are much more numerous than submarines, so it is disingenuous to claim that boat means submarine. Almost every ship includes a bunch of boats. And most small craft are boats, even when not assigned to a ship. Tugs are boats, and outnumber submarines even without the help of life boats.

In the age of sail, anything with less than three masts was a boat. Using that as a standard, all but the largest modern yachts are boats, not ships. Potentially including this class of science vessel. Even when it comes to commercial craft, there are many more fishing boats than factory fishing ships.

Even police boats outnumber submarines.

Sorry land-lubber, you didn't really know that one.

Spoken like a true skimmer who has never known the joy of a green board and a klaxon announcing your return to the deep.

Re:Up front about it

[Aighearach]

Absolutely, I only discussed information, not personal experience.

I'd have paid

[s.petry]

To take a ride on, or donate money too, Boaty McBoatface. Now that it's named like all the other boats, like all the other boats I lost interest.

Re:I'd have paid

[mrbester]

It will always be Boaty McBoatface in our hearts. Just as E][R has an official birthday as well as her real one, RRS Sir Dave will have an unofficial name.

Re:I'd have paid

[Mister Transistor]

Maybe we can get Sir David to change his name to Sir David McBoatface? What then?

Re: I'd have paid

[Anonymous Coward]

Thank you

Vai tomar no cú com tua venda de carros.

[Anonymous Coward]

After I decided that good feelings are now bad feelings, it also persists very well.

Re:Vai tomar no cú com tua venda de carros.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah, that's what would happen if Brazilians were partaking.

Hindsight

[asz1596]

"We want a name that lasts longer than a social-media news cycle" – I suggest you shouldn't have put it up for an online poll, then.

Re:Hindsight

[Aighearach]

They didn't. That's why it is named after Attenborough. The poll was to give them feedback, so they could select which of the names that met the (published) naming criteria was most popular.

The brilliancy of the whole thing is specifically in letting them have their fun, and then ignoring them, instead of filtering the names at the proposal stage.

Let's remember - they're not a democracy.

[mmell]

They're a Constitutional Monarchy - go look it up.

Come to think of it, we're not a democracy - we're a Republic. Just sayin'.

Re:Let's remember - they're not a democracy.

[Anonymous Coward]

Look up "sovereignty of parliament" while you're there. The labels don't always reflect how a state works.

Too late

[spiritplumber]

Every time any newsworthy science is generated about this vessel, the Boaty McBoatface story will be referenced.

Re:Too late

[djinn6]

Even the headline reflects this. The ship will be known as Boaty McBoatface to tens of millions of people, and Attenborough to just a handful. Which one is it's real name?

David will now be known as Boaty McBoatface.

[dsmatthews9379]

Because having two Sir David Attenboroughs would be confusing.

Re:David will now be known as Boaty McBoatface.

[Aighearach]

Well, it would be pretty awesome if he picks up the nickname Sir Boaty.

If somebody wants to see a McBoatface in the future, they should probably agitate to create the title Lord Boatface. That's the only way they're going to manage the process.

Maybe officially...

[vanyel]

...but you *know* everyone is going to call it "Boaty", regardless of what the Powers That Be want...

Re:Maybe officially...

[QuestorTapes]

And coders will be taking every picture and video of it for years to come and editing the name out, replacing it with Boaty McBoatface...

Democracy always fails

[bretts]

Insanity in individuals is something rare - but in groups, parties, nations and epochs, it is the rule. – Friedrich Nietzsche

They didn't totally kill the name...

[Anonymous Coward]

One of the ships extremely expensive submersibles will be called Boatface in a nod to the poll, and I think it's awesome to recognize Sir David Attenborough in such a way whilst he is still a living legend. It would have been cool to have gone with the poll but no-one in their right minds expected that to happen, and it would have been a waste of a rare opportunity to name an exploration vessel after someone who is so thoroughly deserving of that honour.

They could have named it after John Major, or some other twerp. That would have been tragic.

As far as I'm concerned

[NotSoHeavyD3]

Pluto's still a planet and this ship is Boaty Mcboatface.

Re:As far as I'm concerned

[HornWumpus]

It needs the name 'corrected' by good people with paint, at every port of call.

Think of as Rick Rolling the royal navy.

Re:As far as I'm concerned

[Anonymous Coward]

And as far as everyone who isn't you is concerned? Your opinion on these matters doesn't matter.

“I have as much authority as the Pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.” -George Carlin

Re:As far as I'm concerned

[Anonymous Coward]

Pluto's still a planet and this ship is Boaty Mcboatface.

The whole Pluto thing is lame and it should be a planet. I certainly still think of it as a planet. The argument that it isn't is that it failed to get rid of everything in it's path. That argument mean if somebody discovers an object in Jupiter's orbit, Jupiter will become a dwarf planet while Earth is a planet. I see the whole Pluto thing mainly as "I got my name in the history books as the guy who killed Pluto". Now he seems to be entering due to being the first to announce planet X. We should locate that one and then get Pluto back and everybody will be happy.

Boaty is a different matter. There is no scientific arguments for that name nor is there any for not using it (other than boat is too small). It's just silly and David Attenborough struck me as a great name when I saw the top 5 and I was like "darn, it should have won". It was the most voted non-troll name.

Re:As far as I'm concerned

[djinn6]

The IAU should just accept that there's several dozen planets around every star and there's no clear delineation between the classes of planets. According to their definition, the new Neptune-sized planet would not be a planet because it hasn't cleared its orbit of other planet-sized bodies. It also runs into problems with planet-sized objects not in orbit around any star. We know there are tons of red and brown dwarfs out there floating in the abyss. It would be really strange if there weren't any smaller objects floating out there too.

Re:As far as I'm concerned

[Anonymous Coward]

Pluto is still a planet you fucktard, a dwarf person is still a person, and a dwarf planet is still a planet.

Re:As far as I'm concerned

[Anonymous Coward]

1) you capitalized the wrong 2 words
2) it's got nothing to do with the Royal Navy, it's owned and operated by Natural Environment Research Council

Re:As far as I'm concerned

[HornWumpus]

It's a 'Royal Research ship'...close enough.

How high is the freeboard on the stern? Think I could change the name from a canoe? When will they be in the SF bay area?

Online poll?

[Anonymous Coward]

We want a name that ...reflects the serious nature of the science it will be doing

Then don't opt for an online poll. Management.

If you're not going to honor you word...

[Anonymous Coward]

Don't hold stupid contests in the first place.

As a long time Bostonian...

[Anonymous Coward]

...I'm still bummed the Celtics never played in the UFIA Dome.

I wish we could ask David Attenborough...

[Anonymous Coward]

...which name he'd choose based on the vote. (And what his vote would have been.)

Either way, I think naming it after Attenborough is a good choice. I do not see how anyone could disagree, other than to support not ignoring the voting decision, which brings me back to the original question...

Make Boaty a Scientist

[crow]

The solution here is to make Boaty McBoatface a real scientist. Anytime anyone publishes a scientific paper, they should add him as a coauthor.

Re:Make Boaty a Scientist

[Anonymous Coward]

This I can see working out for the good of all.

Re:Make Boaty a Scientist

[bosef1]

That's Doctor McBoatface, show some respect man.

Re:Simple question

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would you right wing nutjobs care about this?

Don't you have some Somali cock to suck?

Meh

[AgNO3]

Usain Boat was the better name.

Re:Meh

[Anonymous Coward]

Even better was RRS I Like Big Boats And Cannot Lie

science

[Anonymous Coward]

To take a ride on, or donate money too, Boaty McBoatface. Now that it's named like all the other boats, like all the other boats I lost interest.

I haven't. I'm invested in the science and discoveries it will be doing, regardless of label.

Loss of publicity & education opportunity

[random_ID]

They should have involved a publicist and some good teachers and kept the name. Imagine using a research vessel named Boaty McBoatface to get school kids interested in science. Such a wasted opportunity.

Re:Loss of publicity & education opportunity

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine using a research vessel named Boaty McBoatface to get school kids interested in science. Such a wasted opportunity.

Instead of a lesson in science, the kids got a lesson in politics and learned how much the vote of a subject of Her Majesty counts.

Re:Loss of publicity & education opportunity

[Aighearach]

Kids are into the ship or not based on only 2 factors: Did you spend the time and money to give them a tour? If so, they're interested in ocean science. Or, did you create a popular cartoon about a science ship? If so, they're interested in ocean science.

Simply naming a ship a cartoon name isn't good enough. Kids know the difference between fun, and a ship they didn't ever get to play on.

Poohbahs and PHBs didn't know a good thing...

[dpbsmith]

...when they saw it. Under the name "RRS Sir David Attenborough" it will drop out of the public eye, do some good work, and be forgotten in thirty years. Under the name "RRS Boaty McBoatface" it would have been the subject of children's books, stuffed toys, animated cartoons, been remembered for a century, and inspired a generation of kids to become polar researchers.

While not intentionally funny, the HMS Beagle and the DSV Alvin don't have the most dignified names in the world, and the scientific work they did is none the worse for it.

Re:Poohbahs and PHBs didn't know a good thing...

[lgw]

Your sig is a dead link, more's the pity.

Re:Poohbahs and PHBs didn't know a good thing...

[The Fat Bastid]

and the HMS pickle!

Re:Poohbahs and PHBs didn't know a good thing...

[Anonymous Coward]

I disagree. The hoopla around this is going to ensure that it is remembered. They could have just named it whatever they wanted to begin with and no one outside a very small section of the scientific community would even know that they was a new vessel, let alone what it was for or what it was named.

Instead, they made the news in every major country, and the front page of every important social media site around the World. If 99% of everyone that saw this story forgets it in a couple of years, more people will still remember than would have ever known otherwise.

In PR, it doesn't matter so much if news is good or bad, just that there is news.

British using euros now?

[The Mysterious Dr. X]

I think the article says "pounds." The euro symbol is different.

Punctuation

[Roger W Moore]

it's "fewer votes" not "less votes"
the same way you say "greater than" not "greater then"

It's also customary to start sentences with capital letters and end them with a full stop. When it comes to your own posts it seems that you grasp the idea that an internet post does not have to contain precisely correct English (mine certainly don't). So it is rather strange that you won't let similar lapses in other people's posts pass without criticism.

Re:Punctuation

[Anonymous Coward]

Muphry's law.

Re:Punctuation

[oxbow lake]

I'm not sure I'd hold the AC posting in the comments to the same standard as the Slashdot editor posting on the front page.

Re:Punctuation

[PJ6]

it's "fewer votes" not "less votes"
the same way you say "greater than" not "greater then"

It's also customary to start sentences with capital letters and end them with a full stop. When it comes to your own posts it seems that you grasp the idea that an internet post does not have to contain precisely correct English (mine certainly don't). So it is rather strange that you won't let similar lapses in other people's posts pass without criticism.

Actually, if you want to get pedantic... format variation (e.g. poetic verse) is not the same as a grammar mistake.

Re:Simple question

[Anonymous Coward]

Given the performance of most politicians after they reach office, I think it's safe to say that almost all of them stole their given election.

Government Lies

[Anonymous Coward]

As usual, the government lied. They let the people vote, then they picked what they wanted anyway. It doesn't matter whether the name the voters picked was dumb or if the government set up a process that could be gamed (government failure) - they made a promise that they backtracked on.

Shippy McShipface

[Caesar Tjalbo]

Shippy McShipface would have been more appropriate.

Re:Shippy McShipface

[rjforster]

Unfortunately this is very close to "Shitface" and we don't want to go there.

But taking it one step further, "getting totally Attenboroughed" on a night out would be a comical euphemism for drunk.

Lighten up

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd be happy if I had to refer to such a name on a daily basis

"serious nature"

[Anonymous Coward]

"We want a name that lasts longer than a social-media news cycle and reflects the serious nature of the science it will be doing,"

yeah, by all means, let's perpetuate the myth that scientists lack any sense of humor

we're not derided enough already

Re:Why are you surprised? They snubbed other names

[lgw]

That choice is at least justifiable - you don't name a government-bought ship after someone who defeated your navy. Snubbing Boaty McBoatface is just being humorless pricks.

Wonder what Sir David Attenboatface thinks about the change?

Re:Simple question

[Imrik]

I'm of the opinion that campaign promises should require an oath given under penalty of perjury.

There was another winner...

[andyteleco]

A guy in a Spanish forum wanted to troll the vote and proposed the name "Blas de Lezo", who was an Admiral of the Spanish army that managed several victories against the British navy despite counting with considerably less resources.

The proposal got viral and for a short period of time it was the most voted option, but then the option was removed and further attempts to reenter the name into the competition were banned.

http://m.forocoches.com/foro/s... (Link to the thread in the Spanish forum)

Re:There was another winner...

[Aighearach]

I'm thankful that was removed early enough, or it would have ended up being named after Lord Nelson.

Financial mistake also

[Tablizer]

They will be missing out on tourism and merchandising revenue that could help fund it.

Re:Simple question

[DaHat]

Always nice to see how "-1 Offtopic" to some is used as a form of "I disagree, but intellectually am unwilling/unable to engage to discuss it."

Please Mr. Attenborough

[mwvdlee]

Please Mr. Attenborough, please change your legal name to Boaty McBoatface.

Yes, it is a silly name

[Martin S.]

So what if this is a silly name, a really opportunity has been missed to engage with children about exploring the natural world through science,

This could easily have supported a range of children's books of the "Adventure of McBoat" and toy/model boats, with profits funding more scientific exploration.

Fire bureaucrats!

[Anonymous Coward]

ok, ppl in the committee made bad decisions and put up the name on the poll.
if they now don't accept ppl's vote then do as you pls and use the 'proper' name,
but in return pls step down from you current position
the committee should be fired!

Let's compromise...

[Anonymous Coward]

How about Sir Boaty McBoatface?

Grammar

[amh99]

Less of this, please.

Time for Elon Musk to save the day

[Anonymous Coward]

If SpaceX builds a third barge, the best name in history just became available.

What's the big deal?

[Rambo Tribble]

We have the same sort of thing here in the U.S., it's called the Electoral College.

Why not...

[bensch128]

name the attached dinghy Boaty McBoatface so the internet poll is at least honoured as a consolation prize....

the drone submersible will be named Boaty instead

[phorm]

While the main vessel isn't going to be named Boaty, the attached research submersible will be

Re:Simple question

[Coren22]

Perhaps if a civics course were required before running for president as well. It seems that none of the presidential candidates actually know what powers the president holds before being elected and finding out how much power they hold as president.

I find it especially funny that Obama is a constitutional scholar, and even he didn't understand how little power the president holds.

Passing a civics course should also be a prerequisite to be able to vote as well, but then again, since landowners stopped being the only ones able to vote, everything has gone down hill anyways.

Modern Democracy in a nutshell

[Anonymous Coward]

if the Powers That Be approve of the results of the vote, it gives them a "Mandate" and justifies anything to "fulfill the Will of the People".

if the Powers That Be disapprove, well, just ignore it. The People are idiots. Or racist, or something.