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Amazon and Microsoft Directors Charged in Prostitution Sting (kiro7.com)

An anonymous reader writes: A director from Microsoft and a former Amazon director have been charged with promoting prostitution after an investigation into Seattle-area sex trafficking, according to a local news report. Investigators say the director of worldwide health for Microsoft submitted over 70 reviews of prostitutes that he had allegedly hired since April 2012, according to the report, while the director of software development at Amazon, who worked on Fire TV, "allegedly hired prostitutes at least 29 times through The Review Board and TheLeague.Net, according to court documents." Both men have pleaded not guilty and are free on $75,000 bail, part of a group of 19 people now facing criminal charges. "These defendants, we allege, were absolutely devoted to the commercial sexual exploitation of vulnerable, powerless immigrant women," King County Prosecutors said in January, adding that the women, who were forced into prostitution to pay off debts to organized crime bosses in Asia, are not being charged.
Last January a Seattle newspaper reported that one alleged brothel owner "previously had made his living off illegal marijuana grows, but moved into prostitution when the drug was legalized."

311 comments

  1. No surprise there... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 5, Funny

    Everyone knows Amazon and Microsoft are in bed together to screw over consumers.

    1. Re:No surprise there... by Ferocitus · · Score: 0

      Win 10's default "camera on" setting means Microsoft need someone to distribute photos taken in kids' bedrooms. Why not Amazon.

      --
      USB, USB, USB!
    2. Re:No surprise there... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stop complaining! They were just free downloads.

    3. Re:No surprise there... by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      They will certainly have creepy children

    4. Re: No surprise there... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Microsoft already published nude pictures of an eight year-old girl.

    5. Re: No surprise there... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That isn't sexual unlike the Republican Billary that raped little girls with Epstein.

    6. Re: No surprise there... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just because he watched little girls being raped doesn't mean that Clinton raped too.

    7. Re: No surprise there... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. It was just a couple of Microsoft employees. It was t Microsoft.

    8. Re: No surprise there... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      After I saw Gates hi5 an employee for raping a Mexican girl, I gave up on Microsoft.

    9. Re: No surprise there... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. Eppie, as they called him, raped. There is no evidence that Clinton did despite watching.

    10. Re: No surprise there... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Clinton only went on 26 trips with that rapist.

    11. Re: No surprise there... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They didn't mean to.

    12. Re: No surprise there... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Nor did the innocent, vulnerable immigrant women who were "lured" into prostitution.

      LOL.

      The insanity of Americans is truly amazing to behold.

    13. Re: No surprise there... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least he was arrested unlike the rest of his kind at Micrisift.

    14. Re:No surprise there... by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      Maybe it is funny in a way, but I want to ask you this: how does Amazon screw you? By offering insane number of options to choose from when you are looking to buy something? By offering competitive prices? By offering to deliver to you faster than anybody else can? By offering a fairly simple and consistent return / exchange policy? Seriously, how, as a consumer, are you getting hurt by a company working to outcompete anybody else in the retail business?

    15. Re:No surprise there... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Maybe it is funny in a way, but I want to ask you this: how does Amazon screw you?

      I no longer have a local bookstore to browse the shelves and discover hidden gems. Amazon's recommendations and search are absolutely useless in finding new stuff to read. I'm reading less and buying less from Amazon these days than I have in the last 15 years.

    16. Re:No surprise there... by roman_mir · · Score: 1

      Oh, so by providing lower prices and a much wider variety, Amazon out competed a number of retailers you used to walk to? I, on the other hand, buy much more on line than I could at small retailers before Amazon.

    17. Re:No surprise there... by __aaclcg7560 · · Score: 1

      Oh, so by providing lower prices and a much wider variety, Amazon out competed a number of retailers you used to walk to? I, on the other hand, buy much more on line than I could at small retailers before Amazon.

      When brick-and-mortar stores existed along with Amazon, there was more competition in marketplace. Now there is no competition in the marketplace. More choices at lower prices can result in consumers buying less stuff and becoming less satisfied. A serious problem for virtual stores with unlimited shelf space.

      Marketers assume that the more choices they offer, the more likely customers will be able to find just the right thing. They assume, for instance, that offering 50 styles of jeans instead of two increases the chances that shoppers will find a pair they really like. Nevertheless, research now shows that there can be too much choice; when there is, consumers are less likely to buy anything at all, and if they do buy, they are less satisfied with their selection.

      https://hbr.org/2006/06/more-isnt-always-better

    18. Re: No surprise there... by godel_56 · · Score: 1

      Posting to undo mod.

    19. Re:No surprise there... by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      Admittedly, this article is almost 3 years old, but I can't find the one I read recently.. Apparently local bookstores are actually _growing_ in popularity and sales.

      http://fortune.com/2013/09/20/...

      That doesn't solve your lack of having a store, I just thought it was surprising.

  2. They were Johns charged as pimps by raymorris · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It sounds like these guys committed "patronizing a prostitute", which is a misdemeanor:
    http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/defa...

    They've been charged with "promoting prostitution"( being a pimp), which a felony:
    http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/defa...

    1. Re: They were Johns charged as pimps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's a pimp? Is that like a small pimple?

    2. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by TheReaperD · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Prosecutorial overreach. The prosecutor will probably be running for office soon and is trying to make a name for himself/herself.

      --
      "Be particularly skeptical when presented with evidence confirming what you already believe." -
    3. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by BitterOak · · Score: 4, Informative

      Apparently they posted reviews of some of the prostitutes online which is technically promoting.

      --
      If I can be modded down for being a troll, can I be modded up for being an orc, or a balrog?
    4. Re: They were Johns charged as pimps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least you live in a place where prosecutors and judges are elected AFAIK.

    5. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you're involved in the feedback or organization of those facilitating prostitution, the charge is valid.

    6. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by The+Raven · · Score: 2

      That's kind of idiotic. That's like saying that 'My dealer sells some great weed' is the same as dealing.

      --
      "I will trust Google to 'do no evil' until the founders no longer run it." Hello Alphabet.
    7. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The laws are made by people who aren't as stupid as you.

    8. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The article is excessively vague. Chances are very good that the deeds in question were for escort services. Of which you pay for a "escort" you basically go out and the escort has the control to sleep with you or not. Just because you pay for a escort does not guarantee sex. The reviews left would have been regarding the escort service, not regarding prostitution. Escorting is not illegal. Leaving a review for a escort service is not illegal. If these women were in fact "victims of sex trafficking" I seriously doubt the clients were aware of this.

    9. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Neither M$ nor Amazon can tolerate that sort of bad advertising, they'll do an internal review, find out whether it extended further and likely hand them over. Simply not worth it unless they are major investors and in that case they have the wealth to defend themselves. Advertising is extraordinarily expensive, in fact it costs billions now, so how expensive would the public relations exercise of being a leading corporate citizen by handing over corrupt executives and protecting the honour of the company versus protecting them 'at all costs', considering how much it would cost to protect them and how much more it would cost to repair the public relations damage.

      Let's be realistic, who wants corporate executives who are lead by their genitals, what worth are they, really. What risk are they, what would they sell to please their genitals. If they can not contain their hormones with a quick low risk toss but must risk their entire companies for their weaknesses, why protect them at all, better all round to get rid of them as quickly as possible and perhaps even improve the reputation demonstrating corporate leadership.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    10. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The laws are made by people who aren't as stupid as you.

      That explains why morons like you vote for Trump.

    11. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by bjwest · · Score: 1

      ...Advertising is extraordinarily expensive, ...

      Advertising expenses are tax deductible, so we pretty much pay for our own disinformation and to be lied to and fooled into buying crap we don't need.

      --

      --- Keep the choice with the user..
    12. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by mrbester · · Score: 2

      70 visits to prostitutes since 2012 is less than twice a month. If you think that that frequency of sex is excessive (TFA didn't state if that guy is in a sexual relationship, so could be the only times he has sex) and equates to being "lead[sic] by their genitals" then you're a hypocritical prude.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    13. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nah. People vote for Trump out of 2 reasons:
      1. Because the Presidency by itself is a useless powerless post that doesn't do shit, and it's the same thing with or without Trump.
      2. Because if Trump gets there, nobody will take him seriously and he will do absolutely nothing because the powers behind don't support him.
      However if Hilary gets there, she has the backing from corporates and the warmongers (as can be seen via her cancerous foreign politics and shit like Monsanto backing), which will enable her spread of evil.
      One is a cunning clown who is in it for his own ego and business, the other is a through and through evil piece of dog shit with the backing of all the parties that the left and democrats have been incidentally protesting against and fighting against during this last decade.

    14. Re: They were Johns charged as pimps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Interesting

      I love the way they portray hookers as victims.

      Just helpless little women who made $300 an hour and were lured into the business by baaaad white men.

      God SJW's are hilariously stupid.

    15. Re: They were Johns charged as pimps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      no, the indelible stupid is all over YOU.

    16. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by umghhh · · Score: 1, Interesting

      They are screwed that is for sure.

      Humans that are not controlled (at least at times) by their genitals? I guess there are not that many. Men want to have sex, women want to have kids. Those humans that do not have such urges do not procreate and thus their genes are not passed over.
      The whole thing is just as silly as war on drugs and other idiocies coming from the prudes in US of A. When one reads this one wonders for what A really stands for....

      Ooooch and the poor women - I would be surprised if these poor women the two hired can be indeed qualified as poor. But this is the same BS as the recent article in TE claiming with big letters big gender pay gap where in fact in the article they clearly show that such gap does not exist while claiming the opposite. All PC propaganda. I wonder how long do we have to tolerate such nonsense?

    17. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it's the usual femina2i overreach... soon all sex will be a capital offense for men if the woman decides to press charges, w/o any evidence needed. mark my words!

      AWALT

    18. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by Snufu · · Score: 1

      "posted reviews of some of the prostitutes online which is technically promoting."

      We move for acquittal on the grounds that everyone knows Amazon reviews are fake.

    19. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by Xenx · · Score: 3, Informative

      While I am not privy to the specifics, the summary does say the women were forced into it to pay off debts to crime bosses. So, if the information is correct.. the women were victims. If they were prostitutes by choice, that is a different story.

    20. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by phayes · · Score: 1, Insightful

      And if they voluntarily put themselves into the pimp's debt in order to emigrate to the US, that makes them what exactly?

      Personally I've begun to wonder if the war on sex workers is just as lost as the war on Drugs & whether legalising and regulating is not a better approach.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    21. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by JoeMerchant · · Score: 2

      It's a crackdown on the publication of reviews of misdemeanor activity - you know: free speech. Sure, you're free to speak, but if you speak about doing illegal things, that's a problem.

    22. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by JoeMerchant · · Score: 2

      One guy is already ex-Amazon, the MS guy could be: 1) using 79 different service providers for himself, 2) just making BS up as a favor to the people running the business, or, most likely in my opinion, 3) providing perks to visiting business partners.

      Only in case 1) would I see him being considered a John, case 2 and especially 3 puts him in the pimp role.

      And, in case 3, MS would be seeking business partners who are led by their genitals- which would put MS in a more advantageous position than a "clean" business relationship, so I think the practice might be encouraged by his upper management - not the practice itself, but the results it delivers.

    23. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Drumpf 2016 !

    24. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by sumdumass · · Score: 2

      Tax deductible is a misnomer. It is true that advertising is an expense that is removed from the gross before the tax rate is applied but it does not create a dollar for dollar wash. It is still a losing proposition.

      Lets assume a 10% tax rate for simplicity. For every $100 dollars of profit you would owe $10 in taxes. So you spend $90 that would otherwise be pocketed in order to save that $10. This is also why you cannot buy two of something that is half off and end up getting it for free. Of course it gets more complicated with tax credits and progressive tax rates but the principle is the same,- more money has to be spent than what will be saved due to it being deductible.

      So here is a quick question. Would you prefer $90 in your pocket or $0 for saving $10 on a tax bill? Well, even that answer is complicated because the value returned in spending the $90 of profit might be worth more money in the future. But if you have to spend it unnecessarily to repair your reputation you remove that potential value. So it would be an unnecessary cost if you could otherwise avoid it.

    25. Re: They were Johns charged as pimps by mrbester · · Score: 1

      Hint: hit reply in the comment you want to reply to, as yours made no sense in the current context. There were plenty to choose from.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    26. Re: They were Johns charged as pimps by hey! · · Score: 1

      Which turns out to be not necessarily such a great idea, as evinced by the propensity of prosecutors and judges in such jurisdictions to use their positions for political gain.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    27. Re: They were Johns charged as pimps by hey! · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Well, they *are* vulnerable, because they operate outside the law and can be exploited by criminals You don't think that a prostitute you've paid $300 gets to keep that money? Almost all of that goes to the pimp.

      Freelancing women are targets for beatings by pimps because they threaten the pimp's income. And what are they supposed to do, go to the cops and say "This guy is trying to steal my prostitution business?"

      Once a prostitute is in the clutches of a pimp, she's not free to leave to business either. Even if she wants to move to a different city, if the pimp keeps her in place by threats to her friends and family.

      And not every prostitute is a prostitute by choice. There are runaways who fall into a pimp's control; rural foreigners who are tricked into thinking they're immigrating to the US for a high-paying (by their standards) domestic service job.

      Understand I have no issues with prostitution per se, but I have a big problem with slavery, and in any system where prostitutes operate outside the protection of the law it's a given that most of them are de facto slaves.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    28. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my glorious country in Europe, this prosecutor would face disciplinary action, possible criminal charges and fines. The government would then pay compensation to the victim for each day spent in prison.

    29. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by Xenx · · Score: 1

      Voluntarily putting themselves into debt isn't the same as voluntarily opting to whore themselves out. Volunteering to whore themselves out to cover debts or gain passage is fundamentally different from being forced into it after the debt/passage.

      As for your second point, I feel legalized prostitution is all well and good... as long as it's properly regulated.

    30. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by Imrik · · Score: 1

      That would make them indentured servants, which is still illegal.

      Also, I disagree with your sig. Democracy is a hundred sheep and a wolf deciding who gets eaten by the wolf.

    31. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      rtb61, you are a feminist and a cunt.

    32. Re: They were Johns charged as pimps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Sounds like these are all problems that would be immediately solved by legalizing prostitution and adding a regulatory structure. After all, what was that in the article about a guy who used to make his money with marijuana until it was legalized, and after it was legalized, he immediately left marijuana for prostitution which is still illegal?

    33. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by phayes · · Score: 1

      So you *know* that *none* of these women knowingly engaged themselves to prostitution and immigration to the US? I've travelled to a number of countries where some were desperate to emigrate to the 1st world whatever the cost. I'm not claiming that this is the case for all or a majority knew what they were getting into.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    34. Re: They were Johns charged as pimps by nbauman · · Score: 1, Troll

      Well, they *are* vulnerable, because they operate outside the law and can be exploited by criminals You don't think that a prostitute you've paid $300 gets to keep that money? Almost all of that goes to the pimp.

      Freelancing women are targets for beatings by pimps because they threaten the pimp's income. And what are they supposed to do, go to the cops and say "This guy is trying to steal my prostitution business?"

      Once a prostitute is in the clutches of a pimp, she's not free to leave to business either. Even if she wants to move to a different city, if the pimp keeps her in place by threats to her friends and family.

      And not every prostitute is a prostitute by choice. There are runaways who fall into a pimp's control; rural foreigners who are tricked into thinking they're immigrating to the US for a high-paying (by their standards) domestic service job.

      Understand I have no issues with prostitution per se, but I have a big problem with slavery, and in any system where prostitutes operate outside the protection of the law it's a given that most of them are de facto slaves.

      I'd like supporting evidence for that. That sounds more like a tabloid TV show than the results of research done by criminologists.

      We all know how Nicholas Kristof's reporting on the supposed "sexual slavery" fell apart. Other studies of so-called sexual exploitation, forcing women into sex work, and forcing minors into prostitution have similarly fallen apart when they were investigated by social scientists who were trained to get the facts.

      When somebody is running an anti-prostitution organization, some of which have budgets of $1 million or more from government and private grants, they have a strong motivation to exaggerate and lie about the problem, and they've often been caught exaggerating and lying.

      Similarly, when a commercial sex worker (the public health term) gets arrested for prostitution (the prosecutor's term), they have a choice: they can admit that they are voluntarily engaging in this business because that was the best way they could make money, and become criminals who go to jail; or they can claim that they were forced into it, enslaved and exploited by pimps and johns, and become victims who cooperate with the prosecutors, has all the charges dismissed, becomes a client of a social service agency that gets her housing, work and education, and sometimes gets citizenship as a political refugee rather than being deported as a criminal. So they also have a strong motivation to tell the prosecutors what they want to hear.

      Suppose I assume for purposes of argument that it's explotation for a woman to make $300 a night as a sex worker. Is it also exploitation for a woman to make $300 a week as a minimum-wage fast-food worker or hotel worker making beds and scrubbing floors? I would say they're both explotiation, and a woman has a right to decide which exploitation she prefers. If you really want to stop commercial sex work, do what Mao did and provide the sex workers with better jobs and living conditions. That would take public money.

      http://reason.com/blog/2014/06...
      Why Did Nicholas Kristof Believe Somaly Mam's Lies?
      The roots and consequences of a deception.
      Jesse Walker
      Jun. 3, 2014

      Last week, Somaly Mam resigned from the foundation she co-founded seven years ago. Mam, dubbed "the James Frey of anti–sex trafficking activism" by my colleage Elizabeth Nolan Brown, achieved her fame by telling the world that she had been forced to work in a Cambodian brothel as a child and that her group rescued girls who had suffered a similar fate. For several years, journalists have been questioning many of Mam's claims. Those investigations culminated last month in a devastating Newsweek piece that showed Mam had lied repeatedly both about her own life and about the experiences of the people she says she rescued. One of the latter

    35. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by Sir+Holo · · Score: 1

      It sounds like these guys committed "patronizing a prostitute", which is a misdemeanor:
      http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/defa...

      They've been charged with "promoting prostitution"( being a pimp), which a felony:
      http://app.leg.wa.gov/RCW/defa...

      Maybe the charge is felony-level because they submitted numerous reviews of the prostitutes online? It won't stick, but the DA always goes for the maximum charge that can conceivably be "not thrown out immediately."

      Maybe these guys would hire several at a time and throw a party. That might class them as "pimps." Such details are not in the article – if they were, they might be blocked from admission as evidence in the actual trial. The guts of any such prosecution don't come out until after the trial, to avoid the possibility of "tainting the jury."

      But $75,000 bail for a well-documented, long-standing and repeated commission of a Felony? Come on!!!

    36. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by russotto · · Score: 1

      The theory seems to be that posting a review of a prostitute counts as "promoting prostitution". Why any persecutors in their right mind would want to make a First Amendment case out of a simple prostitution charge, I don't know. I guess any way to get in the papers works.

    37. Re: They were Johns charged as pimps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Understand I have no issues with prostitution per se, but I have a big problem with slavery, and in any system where prostitutes operate outside the protection of the law it's a given that most of them are de facto slaves.

      If they place sufficient value on their so-called freedom they could negociate to buy themselves out of the contract. The fact that they do not implies that they have made their own choice -- without nanny state government interference -- that it isn't worth it. That's how the free market works. Respect it. Praise it.
      --
      roman_mir

    38. Re: They were Johns charged as pimps by TapeCutter · · Score: 1

      Electing judges is about as effective as electing doctors.

      --
      And did you exchange a walk on part in the war for a lead role in a cage? - Pink Floyd.
    39. Re: They were Johns charged as pimps by sexconker · · Score: 2

      Well, they *are* vulnerable, because they operate outside the law and can be exploited by criminals You don't think that a prostitute you've paid $300 gets to keep that money? Almost all of that goes to the pimp.

      Freelancing women are targets for beatings by pimps because they threaten the pimp's income. And what are they supposed to do, go to the cops and say "This guy is trying to steal my prostitution business?"

      Once a prostitute is in the clutches of a pimp, she's not free to leave to business either. Even if she wants to move to a different city, if the pimp keeps her in place by threats to her friends and family.

      And not every prostitute is a prostitute by choice. There are runaways who fall into a pimp's control; rural foreigners who are tricked into thinking they're immigrating to the US for a high-paying (by their standards) domestic service job.

      Understand I have no issues with prostitution per se, but I have a big problem with slavery, and in any system where prostitutes operate outside the protection of the law it's a given that most of them are de facto slaves.

      Bullshit.
      Prostitutes with management (pimps, madames, whatever) get more money and are safer to boot.
      Further, the idea that sex slavery is some sort of pandemic is a myth. The vast, vast, majority of prostitutes are willing participants. Foreigners brought to the country specifically to be prostitutes typically do so with the backing and support of their families in the home country, whom they are sending money to.

      You've bought in to the narrative whole hog. Go look up the actual stats.

    40. Re: They were Johns charged as pimps by Trailer+Trash · · Score: 1

      Well, they *are* vulnerable, because they operate outside the law and can be exploited by criminals You don't think that a prostitute you've paid $300 gets to keep that money? Almost all of that goes to the pimp.

      During the research for Freakonomics, the authors found that prostitutes who use a pimp make more money than when working alone. The pimp also offers protection (remember, not all men pay the $300 of which you speak) and handles the cops. Yeah, two-way street.

    41. Re: They were Johns charged as pimps by theArtificial · · Score: 1

      As an aside: Experiences shared on Twitter. It's quite a tale/adventure.

      --
      Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
    42. Re: They were Johns charged as pimps by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

      And what are they supposed to do, go to the cops and say "This guy is trying to steal my prostitution business?"

      No, they are supposed to go to the cops and say "this guy hit me for standing on the street". She is at no risk of getting arrested for saying that.

      Once a prostitute is in the clutches of a pimp, she's not free to leave to business either.

      Yes, she is. She can tell the cops "this guys wants me to be a prostitute".

      Even if she wants to move to a different city, if the pimp keeps her in place by threats to her friends and family.

      Once again, she has legal recourse if she doesn't want to be a prostitute.

      And not every prostitute is a prostitute by choice. There are runaways who fall into a pimp's control; rural foreigners who are tricked into thinking they're immigrating to the US for a high-paying (by their standards) domestic service job.

      Understand I have no issues with prostitution per se, but I have a big problem with slavery, and in any system where prostitutes operate outside the protection of the law it's a given that most of them are de facto slaves.

      Yeah, I'm skeptical - I'd rather avoid the whole argument by making prostitution and solicitation legal. We pay for sex in kind anyway.

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    43. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by Xenx · · Score: 1

      Did I every state, or even imply, anything to that effect? No. I very specifically said I wasn't privy to specifics and that it's only if the information is correct. So, kindly learn to take the time to comprehend what you read instead of making up your own viewpoint for my words.

    44. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by umghhh · · Score: 1

      Forcing people to do something looks illegal to me yet I do not see any statement about the criminals doing that being charged. Maybe they will be, maybe not. I have my doubts.

    45. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by werepants · · Score: 1

      It is in no way a crackdown on free speech. If you confess to murder and you go to jail you for it, you are not being punished for free speech.

    46. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly

    47. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by phayes · · Score: 1

      In, essence, yes you did. I posited that some may have known they would be prostitutes and you countered with knowing beforehand != being forced after as if this was the case for all. Either qualify your statements better or accept the consequences of making blanket statements. Your poor communication skills are not my problem.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    48. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by mattack2 · · Score: 1

      Tax deductible is a misnomer. It is true that advertising is an expense that is removed from the gross before the tax rate is applied but it does not create a dollar for dollar wash. It is still a losing proposition.

      In your "correction", you're conflating tax deductible and tax credit. A tax credit (e.g. the $7500 federal tax credit for alternative vehicles) does reduce your taxes "dollar for dollar". A tax deduction does what you described.

    49. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by Xenx · · Score: 1

      Look, I'm sorry you can't understand basic concepts. I really am. But, that doesn't make it my fault. Grow up and stop blaming other for your own shortcomings.

    50. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by phayes · · Score: 1

      Again, your poor communication skills are not my problem, Either qualify your statements better or accept the consequences of making blanket statements.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    51. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Dude they can always masturbate, no your genitals wont fall off, no you palms will not get hairy, nor will you go blind and hint, hint, it is the prudes oppose masturbation. Once or one hundred times, you put a company at risk because what, you are too lazy to play with your own genitals, then yes, you should be burned by the company, most emphatically so.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    52. Re:They were Johns charged as pimps by Xenx · · Score: 1

      While I am not privy to the specifics, the summary does say the women were forced into it to pay off debts to crime bosses.

      The information, as presented, indicates they were forced into prostitution against there will.

      So, if the information is correct.. the women were victims.

      If accurate, the women were forced into prostitution against their will. As such, they are victims.

      If they were prostitutes by choice, that is a different story.

      If they chose to be prostitutes, they're not victims.

      Voluntarily putting themselves into debt isn't the same as voluntarily opting to whore themselves out.

      Taking on debt, in of itself, is not voluntary acceptance of the method of repayment forced upon you after the fact. In this case, prostitution.

      Volunteering to whore themselves out to cover debts or gain passage is fundamentally different from being forced into it after the debt/passage.

      Taking on debt, knowing that prostitution would be included in the repayment process, is not the same as being forced into prostitution after the fact.


      All of that was readily apparent from what I originally said. I have now expended more effort explaining simple statements than should of been necessary. Any further and you're either unwilling or unable to grasp simple logic. Either way, it's not worth any further effort. If you still cannot figure things out, you're on your own.

    53. Re: They were Johns charged as pimps by alexandru_preoteasa · · Score: 0

      This is called "hypoagency." Women can't be held responsible for anything because they're portrayed as just victims, passive and helpless. Men, on the other hand, have "hyperagency." They are ALWAYS to blame, and are always portrayed as aggressors, violent, pushy, rude and in-your-face. Welcome to the house feminism built.

  3. Crime? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who are the victims? It sounds like all parties consented to each transaction.

    1. Re:Crime? by TheReaperD · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The prostitutes may be victims of sex trafficking but, the people being charged had nothing to do with that if it did take place. They should be going after the traffickers who brought them to this country if they were brought here either illegally or against their will or if they extorted them. Going after these guys is just the prosecutor trying to get his name in the paper, not trying to actually go after criminals.

      --
      "Be particularly skeptical when presented with evidence confirming what you already believe." -
    2. Re:Crime? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sex is legal, and selling is legal, so why isn't selling sex legal?

    3. Re:Crime? by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 0

      Who are the victims? It sounds like all parties consented to each transaction.

      You're not quite current. There was a moment when liberals briefly supported the right of prostitutes to operate legally as a business, but now they call it "trafficking" so they can make it evil again.

    4. Re:Crime? by TheReaperD · · Score: 0

      Because the people in power are afraid of the stuck-up prudes.

      --
      "Be particularly skeptical when presented with evidence confirming what you already believe." -
    5. Re: Crime? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      George? Is that you?

    6. Re: Crime? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Eating is legal and babies are legal, so why isn't...

    7. Re:Crime? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      There was a moment when liberals briefly supported the right of prostitutes to operate legally as a business, but now they call it "trafficking" so they can make it evil again.

      Except the illegality of prostitution is the whole reason for the trafficking. If prostitution was legal and out-in-the-open, then there would be no need for trafficking.

    8. Re:Crime? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sex is legal, and selling is legal, so why isn't selling sex legal?

      The real problem is that buying sex is legal. Buying sex should be illegal, selling it is fine though.

    9. Re:Crime? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I didn't realise that Sweden had a Slashdot account. Wow.

    10. Re:Crime? by ATMAvatar · · Score: 1

      The unfortunate irony is that by making prostitution illegal, they have, in effect, targeted the victims of trafficking.

      --
      "They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety."
    11. Re: Crime? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's one of the reasons why you should not make selling sex illegal, you should make buying sex illegal.

    12. Re:Crime? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It is legal, you just have to do it in-front of a camera and call it porn

    13. Re: Crime? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Babies eating isn't legal?! Damn those nursing advocacy groups...

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    14. Re: Crime? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You should not make EITHER illegal. by making it illegal to sell or buy you create a black market and enable crime to flourish, making it illegal doesn't stop it from happening, it just enables crimes like people smuggling and exploitation.

    15. Re: Crime? by umghhh · · Score: 1

      that is pretty stupid thing to propose.

    16. Re:Crime? by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 3, Insightful

      > The prostitutes may be victims of sex trafficking but, the people being charged had nothing to do with that if it did take place

      The traffickers should be charged, of course. But the condition of these victims of sex trafficking as frightened, often brutalized, under-age, underpaid, slaves of their traffickers is not normally any surprise to the clients.

    17. Re:Crime? by Raenex · · Score: 1

      I wouldn't take anything a prosecutor said on this point at face value without substantiating evidence:

      The War on Sex Trafficking Is the New War on Drugs

      The tactics employed to "get tough" on drugs ended up entangling millions in the criminal justice system, sanctioning increasingly intrusive and violent policing practices, worsening tensions between law enforcement and marginalized communities, and degrading the constitutional rights of all Americans. Yet even as the drug war's failures and costs become more apparent, the Land of the Free is enthusiastically repeating the same mistakes when it comes to sex trafficking. This new "epidemic" inspires the same panicked rhetoric and punitive policies the war on drugs didâ"often for activity that's every bit as victimless.

      Forcing others into sex or any sort of labor is abhorrent, and it deserves to be treated like the serious violation it is. But the activity now targeted under anti-trafficking efforts includes everything from offering or soliciting paid sex, to living with a sex worker, to running a classified advertising website.

      What's more, these new laws aren't organic responses by legislators in the face of an uptick in human trafficking activity or inadequate current statutes. They are in large part the result of a decades-long anti-prostitution crusade from Christian "abolitionists" and anti-sex feminists, pushed along by officials who know a good political opportunity when they see it and by media that never met a moral panic they didn't like.

    18. Re:Crime? by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

      High-paid executives pay for quality. And no sane man wants anything to do with jailbait

    19. Re:Crime? by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

      > High-paid executives pay for quality.

      I really don't know how you conclude this. Many highly paid executives are thieves and scoundrels, and many are quite cheap in their personal habits. There are old British "class" distinctions of dress, of hobbies, and of personal habits. It's especially true in the tech world, where the hobbies they learned in technological schools and focusing on their technology left little time for expensive pursuits.

      Highly paid executives often have expensive hobbies on which they lavish resources and affection, and do pay for quality in those particular interests. But to generalize this to say that they would therefore pay for "quality" in the sex trade is not well founded.

      > And no sane man wants anything to do with jailbait

      The sexual popularity of children is well documented. You cannot reasonably say "no one sane would do this, therefore it does not happen". Various child trafficking reports claim that over 100,000 children in the US each year are engaged in child prostitution, usually forced.

    20. Re:Crime? by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 1

      Except the illegality of prostitution is the whole reason for the trafficking. If prostitution was legal and out-in-the-open, then there would be no need for trafficking.

      Logically yes, but this is about politics, not logic.

    21. Re: Crime? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      100, 000 is grossly exaggerated.

      Considering there are probably only 10million childen I cannot believe that 1 in 100 is a child sex worker.

    22. Re: Crime? by Imrik · · Score: 1

      That's defacto the way it is in the area the article is about. It doesn't reduce the underground trade because the women don't generally realize they can go to the police for help, or if they do realize it, they don't get the opportunity.

    23. Re: Crime? by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      The people in power are happy to take advantage of the gullibility of prudes. FTFY.

    24. Re:Crime? by TheReaperD · · Score: 1

      Never underestimated a person's ability to not see truths that they don't want to see.

      --
      "Be particularly skeptical when presented with evidence confirming what you already believe." -
    25. Re:Crime? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So concentrate on the child traffickers, or the human trafficker mob bosses or the people who are beating women.

      None of your arguments addresses why prostitution itself should be illegal. It is a victimless crime being used by corrupt authorities for personal gain.

    26. Re:Crime? by dryeo · · Score: 2

      That's not really true. Here in Vancouver we have a problem with illegal trafficking in restaurant workers, a perfectly legal business. Due to having the lowest minimum wage and highest cost of living in the country, restaurants (and other minimum wage businesses) lobby to get labour under the foreign worker program (similar to H1Bs) rather then paying enough to attract local labour.
      Often the workers are coerced into illegally paying for their temporary visa, perhaps $10,000, and then basically enslaved as they can't pay off the debt on minimum wage minus living costs that are forced on them, eg being forced to pay large rents. They are also commonly put to work in a different location then their visa allows and then threatened with deportation if they don't do what their bosses demand or complain to the authorities about abuse.
      As long as illegal trafficking means cost savings, it'll happen whether a business is legal or not, and many businesses will pay the minimum possible rather then raising wages to get needed labour.

      --
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
    27. Re: Crime? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Take a look around you next time you're in Germany. Making it all legal just creates more of it, much more.

    28. Re:Crime? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Why is it a problem?

    29. Re: Crime? by x0ra · · Score: 1

      Remember that in the eyes of the law, a 17 years and 364 days old person is still a "children".

    30. Re:Crime? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      Sex trafficking would not exist if it weren't profitable, so purchasing the use of sex slaves does contribute to the problem.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  4. Today I learned the term "grows" is a noun by kriston · · Score: 1, Funny

    Today I learned the term "grows" is a plural nown.

    --

    Kriston

  5. The only exploitation likely going on... by gweihir · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Is by the prosecutor and the police. In countries where prostitution is legal, women selecting this as their choice of work of their own free will are the norm and exceptions are so rare that they make the papers. Also, "pimps" basically do not exist. Hence what is going on here is a deranged war on women that find selling sex for money gives them a sound economic basis and on men that are willing to buy that service. All the "trafficking" nonsense and "helpless" bullshit is just the same vile lies used to justify locking up as many people as possible (and most certainly those "rescued" face the same fate and will have the money they earned stolen in addition) over what in any sane country is a matter of a service rendered between consenting adults. The very kind of language used by the "authorities" already shows what this really is.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    1. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      The other countries also have legal pot

    2. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by Gavagai80 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The human trafficking is quite real and large scale. While it's enabled by anti-prostitution laws which make it easier to hide sex slavery, that doesn't make the exploitation any less reprehensible, nor does it mean that the Johns have no moral responsibility for it. The law should be changed to fight trafficking, but until then these guys are despicable because they quite likely realize what's going on.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    3. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      So you read the part about these being trafficked women, right? They'll have to provide the evidence about that in court to hold-up these charges as they are. Whether or not you like it, a LOT of "chose this career" women are actually forced into it. A TON of the women in the US that do this for a career are started involuntarily, very young, and find themselves with no options later (no education, training, or normal socialization). It's no secret that Asia has, however, immense problems like this: go to any of the "Maid Cafes" on Akhibara street in Japan and 99% of the time those are forced prostitutes paying off their (or a family member's) debts. Entirely illegal...mobsters don't care. I say that as a guy who knows someone running an online cam business who gets mob threats literally going something like "you're disrupting our debt-collection business b**ch, you better stop if you know what's good for you."

    4. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by gweihir · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Where I live, prostitution is legal. And, until, a few years ago, it was legal at 16. You know what brothel-owners _and_ customers though about 16 year olds working as prostitutes? To young, too inexperienced, too self-centered, and generally unfit for the job. They did not want them. Hence there were only very rare instances of 16 year olds trying it in the first place. The whole thing about "most starting at a very young age" is a blatant lie, as there is no demand. The actual average age of starting is around 21 in the US and ones starting below 18 are very, very rare. Same with "women being forced into it". This works so badly that even the Italian Mafia has stopped doing it ages ago. The ones forced into it are not doing a good job (obviously) and hence fetch prices so low the whole thing is more hassle than it is worth. In addition, the person reporting a prostitute forced into it to the police is usually her first or second customer, because men are not total scum and notice when something is amiss.

      The things you apparently believe are the outgrow of perverted and deranged fantasies, not any accurate description of actual reality.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    5. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Human trafficking is just "immigration" against the receiving countries wishes. USA doesn't like Mexicans coming in, it doesn't like people who help Mexicans come in, so it demonizes them as "Human Traffickers" and markets that as akin to slavery.

      But the thing stopping Mexican illegal immigrants getting jobs is the USA laws, not the people helping them across the border. There isn't a plantation full of mexicans working for the man that kidnapped them and dragged them into the USA!

      "Johns have no moral responsibility for it"
      So they should tip! That little extra money is appreciated!

    6. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by Jane+Q.+Public · · Score: 1

      That's a very different situation, though.

      In the U.S., where it's illegal in most states, women (including the young ones) often don't do it just for the money. Because it's illegal.

      Instead, many of them get into the (illegal) business in order to support drug habits, or other such things.

      In any case, personally I think it should be legalized. Making it a crime just makes everything surrounding it worse.

    7. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by AK+Marc · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If prostitution was legal, then human trafficking drops to zero (or so close that it's not really measureable). So as pointed out, it's the government that makes trafficking happen. Since NZ legalized prostitution, there have been no cases of human trafficking. The black market only exists because the government requires it.

    8. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by SumDog · · Score: 1, Interesting

      New Zealand, most of Australia and large segments of Europe all have legal sex work. Even in places like Belgium where it is technically illegal, it's tolerated with famous red light districts like the one in Antwerp.

      The only thing sad about this situation, is that it's still illegal in America (except for parts of Nevada)

    9. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by gweihir · · Score: 2

      You seem to be functionally illiterate. Because your conclusion has no connection at all to what I wrote, quite the opposite. But you clearly are suffering from perverted and deranged fantasies. Maybe you are the danger to others here?

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    10. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The whole thing about "most starting at a very young age" is a blatant lie, as there is no demand.

      I've worked in and around homes for abused and trafficked girls. It certainly is no lie. So who is fantasizing here?

      Hell, I've known of pastors in the US who condemn their colleagues at conferences: "you do realize, statistically, that a significant proportion of your congregations are likely pedophilic, right? If you aren't leading them to repent, confess, and turn themselves into police you aren't doing your job." (Apparently, as they grow they get about 1/3rd of new members every year to eventually reveal, and turn themselves in--which I find quite amazing but, from hearing all the stories and experiences of the woman around me in families, neighborhoods, and so forth, I can believe it.)

      Which is to say, a lot of the demand is likely on your street. But for those which aren't children and relatives...don't you wonder where those tens (sometimes hundreds) of thousands of little girls disappear to every year (US)?

    11. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No. The US is closer to having legal pot than all but one first world nation, while many (the majority?) have legalized prostitution.

    12. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No, actually, as another user who has read enough of your posts to make the obvious inferences, I generally agree you are a sociopathic nutball.

      It isn't as uncommon for other people to make the obvious logical inferences about you as you imagine.

    13. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      don't you wonder where those tens (sometimes hundreds) of thousands of little girls disappear to every year (US)?

      No. I don't. We know were they go. About 80% are runaways, leaving terrible homes for obvious reasons, and most of these turn up alive at some point. Most of the rest are "family abductions"... domestic issues iow. About 1% are actual non-family abductions; about 4600 children (less than 18 years old.)

    14. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Please investigate further before spouting off. I live in such a country with legal prostitution, and the papers regularly report on illegal prostitution rings; pimps who abducted minors as a treat for their 'special customers', illegal immigrants branded and used as slaves, etc. These are extremes, of course, but they do happen.

      You could argue they have nothing to do with 'regular prostitution', but that's not how everyone else will see it.

      There are good reasons to keep prostitution legal, but more importantly visible and in the open. But if you believe legalization will make all the ugly aspects of the sex trade disappear, then you're better off banning it and pretending it doesn't exist.

    15. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by umghhh · · Score: 1

      That is not entirely true - in Germany the pimping actually exist and is doing very well indeed. The state does not like freelancing too and that is what escorts do. Still if you want good service you pay up for a sex worker that has the ability and is willing. Then there are escorts where the sex is just one of the services that they offer. That low segments of the market is prone to crime and violence is probably unavoidable. This is however difficult to combat and trafficking is even more difficult - the victims involved are in the country usually illegally which means they will not cooperate with police. All in all it is still better to let people do their business and try to punish the wrong doers (traffickers), it is however more difficult and on top you have a whole bunch of crazy PC watchmen abusing you verbally.

    16. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > In countries where prostitution is legal, women selecting this as their choice of work of their own free will are the norm and exceptions are so rare that they make the papers. Also, "pimps" basically do not exist.

      Pure libertarian self-justifying fantasy. Prostitution is a legal business in Germany, but Germany is the center of human trafficking in the western world. See the references for https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Try actually living in a poor neighborhood or stepping out of the tourist district when you visit another country.

    17. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      There's no doubt in my mind that prostitution should be legalized, but this incident specifically involves white slavery and human trafficking, and it's reasonable for prosecutors to attack it, just as it's entirely legitimate for a prosecutor to send someone to prison for selling rat poison laced heroin, even though unsafe heroin is pretty much entirely the result of legislators making regulated, safe, heroin illegal.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    18. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 2

      > Human trafficking is just "immigration" against the receiving countries wishes.

      And against the immigrant's wishes. The key to "sex trafficking" is the forced prostitution. Many of the victims, typically women and often children, are deceived, or abused into immigration and then trapped with no access to passports and risks to their families or especially children back home.

    19. Re: The only exploitation likely going on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. Citation required.

      While that may happen in rare instances, those are already crimes (rape) unrelated to prostitution.

      You're purposefully conflating the two because you're a liar with an agenda.

    20. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "women selecting this as their choice of work"

      "Choose to decide to select this as their designated choice of work" makes it sound even more as though it is a voluntary choice.

    21. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "And against the immigrant's wishes"

      They pay a lot of money to get into the USA. It's *not* against the immigrants wishes. What is against the immigrants wishes is being shut off to mainstream work. But that's the USA's doing not the person who helped them across the border.

      "Sex trafficking" is just demonizing phrases... you want to stop them emigrating into the USA, but for racist reasons, so instead you're "protecting them from a life of prostitution", a life that *you* force on them! You're protecting them from your own actions!

    22. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      No it's not. At least it's not without the cooperation of the authorities who provide the blanket of illegality of a victimless crime. For instance, those mafia bosses aren't shipping the women to countries where the prosititution is legal, are they?

    23. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by PPH · · Score: 1

      in Germany the pimping actually exist and is doing very well indeed.

      A couple of things about this. First, read the chapter in SuperFreakonomics>/a> about the relationship between pimps and hookers in Chicago. It's not always about women being abused and exploited. The cases where it is are generally where women cannot exit an abusive relationship because of their criminal status.

      The state does not like freelancing

      Oddly, there (was) a push in Amsterdam to close down a lot of the 'sole proprietor' store window prostitutes that the Red Light District is famous for. Some scholarly articles were written talking up brothels as an alternative and preferred by the women. Except that the women wanted to work for themselves. And the scholarly articles were commissioned by brothel owners, including the Hells Angels (who bought and the screwed up what were a couple of nice establishments) and other organized crime syndicates. Governments don't like sole proprietors, particularly in cash businesses, due to the difficulty of collecting taxes. So we can see where their priorities lie. Besides, brothels are easier to squeeze for political contributions than are a bunch of independent businesswomen.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    24. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hell, I've known of pastors in the US who condemn their colleagues at conferences

      On the other hand, I know of some ministries that held workshops in the wake of the Wenatchee child abuse prosecutions to instruct their members on what to do in the event they are rounded up by the cops on similar charges. Between the massive screw-ups on the part of the CPS and churches now preparing their congregations for possible legal actions, law enforcement is reticent about prosecuting religious organizations. Probably the best way to keep young girls from being molested is to keep them as far away from a church as possible (boys too, in the event of Catholics).

    25. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > If prostitution was legal, then human trafficking drops to zero (or so close that it's not really measureable).

      Not really. If it wasn't the prostitution laws, it'd be illegal immigration laws instead and they still would feel unable to go to law. Or maybe it'd just be plain, old-fashioned blackmail of some kind.

      If you really want to solve this, you need to offer clemency to anyone enslaved like this for exposing blackmail. Then it will be against anyone's interests for trying to blackmail them.

    26. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

      Your objection is invalid. Almost all places that legalize prostitution also leave pimping less than fully legalized, so as to give the protections you mention.

      It's only in the US where people assume the worst possible laws, and work hard to get them. Then hold up their poor experience as proof we need more laws to control the bad laws.

    27. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A person would have to have a deranged view of reality to believe that 1/3 of the population are pedophiles.

      And read up on the actual stats of missing children.

    28. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hence what is going on here is a deranged war on women

      Really - they're prosecuting and locking up *men*, and this constitutes a war on *women*?

      It looks a lot more like a war on men: both directly, and on a business that allows men to obtain sex through commercial means, which weakens the negotiating position of women on the dating market.

    29. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Read my sig, seriously. And nobody believes that "another user" anyways.

      Incidentally, you are not nearly as anonymous as you think you are...

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    30. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by umghhh · · Score: 1

      Yes I know. What I wanted to say is that legalizing it does not remove neither pimps nor the trafficking problem.
      I think it is a valid argument that legalizing it would help sex workers. But celebrating legalization because now all problems are 'solved' is rather inappropriate.

    31. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by PPH · · Score: 1

      legalizing it does not remove neither pimps nor the trafficking problem.

      The point that SuperFreakonomics made was that pimping was not necessarily a problem. It certainly is if you think that prostitution is a problem. But once you get over that, there is a logical demand for certain services (marketing, business management, etc.) that pimps provide prostitutes. And they (the hookers) will seek out pimps to provide these services. Once prostitution is legal, hookers can easily enter into or exit from any pimp/prostitute business relationship. So, what's the problem?

      trafficking

      This is a problem to the extent that it involves coercion and/or misrepresentation on the part of the pimp/trafficker. No longer a problem once prostitution is legal and prostitutes can avail themselves of civil courts to seek remedies for such grievances. Underage trafficking/prostitution goes away as the legal age hookers turn in the working kids. If for no other reason than to eliminate unwanted competition.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    32. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by PPH · · Score: 1

      legal pot

      But that tends to diminish the demand for prostitution. In Amsterdam (according to the 'working women') most of the stoners can't get it up and so don't frequent the RLD's traditional businesses.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    33. Re: The only exploitation likely going on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That is truly fascinating (the brothel managers not wanting 16 year olds)
      What country are you from? Or do your reference to further reading on this.

    34. Re: The only exploitation likely going on... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I meant, do you have a reference for further reading on this. Thanks

    35. Re:The only exploitation likely going on... by FormOfActionBanana · · Score: 1

      That is truly fascinating (the brothel managers not wanting 16 year olds)
      What country are you from? Or can you share a reference (here or via email) where I can read further on this. Thanks.
      I find it is nearly impossible to Google for straight information about prostitution. Too much ideology wherever you look.

      --
      Take off every 'sig' !!
  6. Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    I'm sure 1% tech millionaires are truly singling out and harming poor innocent helpless immigrants by paying them $1000+ a night. No time to stop the swiftly-rising rising murder rate across the USA this year, we're way too busy 'investigating' high class escorts.

    It's also fun that all the prostitutes were let go because they were all really nice ladies. The new rule is that criminals are really victims, especially if you can toss in some racial discrimination as a bonus side story.

    1. Re: Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What makes you think that the women where not victims?

    2. Re:Question by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      [Take note trolls, ^ this is how you do it!]

      Thank you for taking the time to compose an actual worthy troll post. These "jews did this", "n***ers that" are so painfully stupid that you can only feel sad for the troll. You OTOH used actual arguments, completely fallacious at that, but arguments nonetheless. Congrats, you deserve a "+1, Troll" moderation.

  7. I blame Prime by Kwyj1b0 · · Score: 4, Funny

    To be fair, the Amazon employee was a Prime Now customer and had gotten so used to getting what he wanted in two hours that pumping drinks in to a girl all night in a bar (let alone the traditional three-dates before sex route) was just too damn slow.

    1. Re:I blame Prime by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      pumping drinks in to a girl all night in a bar

      So that's how one gets laid! I which I had this sacred knowledge 20 years ago.

    2. Re:I blame Prime by x0ra · · Score: 1

      No, it's more to cut all the bs of women using their vagina as a way to control men...

  8. Mars Needs Women by mentil · · Score: 1

    The companies are most likely encouraging their employees to use prostitutes, due to the lack of single women in the Seattle area. Given that Vancouver is ~3 hours' drive from Seattle, it might make more sense to encourage them to take a day off to go somewhere that prostitution is legal.
    If it weren't for the bad PR, they'd probably just directly lobby for prostitution to be regulated and legalized in WA. Given the souring economy (and the momentum of the marijuana legalization effort), this is likely to occur anyway.

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    1. Re:Mars Needs Women by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Good point.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    2. Re:Mars Needs Women by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "The companies are most likely encouraging their employees to use prostitutes"

      For a reference I'd suggest reading Vargas Llosa's "Captain Pantoja and the Special Service".

    3. Re:Mars Needs Women by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > The companies are most likely encouraging their employees to use prostitutes, due to the lack of single women in the Seattle area.

      There are plenty of single women in the Seattle area. They're all fat dykes.

      Think I'm kidding? Did you ever *meet* the woman who used to staff abuse@microsoft.com? Brother, when she sat around the house, she sat *around* the house. And they haven't gotten any prettier.

      https://www.linkedin.com/in/re...

  9. Little girls have to share restrooms with men, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    but it's illegal for adults to enter into a contract for sex?

    1. Re:Little girls have to share restrooms with men, by unimacs · · Score: 1, Troll

      It should be illegal to enter a contract for sex when the person providing the sex is being forced to provide it and is not even the one getting compensated for it.

    2. Re:Little girls have to share restrooms with men, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or just do the right thing and make buying sex illegal in the first place.

    3. Re:Little girls have to share restrooms with men, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      just go die instead of whining here about a world you don't understand and never will.

    4. Re:Little girls have to share restrooms with men, by Imrik · · Score: 1

      It is illegal, notice how the johns are getting prosecuted and the prostitutes are getting let go.

    5. Re:Little girls have to share restrooms with men, by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or just do the right thing and make buying sex illegal in the first place.

      Or do the right thing, and make buying and selling sex legal for adults, and make illegal forcing a person into an occupation they are not wanting to do (whether that is being a prostitute, picking cotton, being a nanny, working in a restaurant, building railroads, harvesting apples, etc.)

      captcha : consent

  10. Freemium model? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "the commercial sexual exploitation of vulnerable, powerless immigrant women"

    As opposed to the fremium model? Where the first sex is for free and after that you pay and pay and pay?

    Look, an immigrant can't get a job and sell her pussy, she is neither vulnerable, or powerless, she's simply jobless. So she CHOOSES to exploit a few men for money in exchange for faking sexual interest. Perhaps she exploits her hands for massage? Why shouldn't it be a weiner massage? If she fingers his ass, how is she different from a nurse treating constipation?

    This is sexist crap from feminists liars.

    1. Re: Freemium model? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod up

  11. Prostitutes in government by roman_mir · · Score: 1

    Prostituting oneself is a fundamental individual right. If it is not, then the government prostitutes, I mean politicians, should all be in jail and so should all those, who vote for them or give them money.

    1. Re:Prostitutes in government by jcr · · Score: 1

      The politicians are pimps. The bureaucrats are prostitutes.

      -jcr

      --
      The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  12. Eeh by Greyfox · · Score: 2, Funny

    What's the use of having all the money in the world if you can't use it to purchase some world class vagina every once in a while?

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    1. Re:Eeh by swb · · Score: 1, Flamebait

      You don't pay for the vagina, you pay for them to go away after.

    2. Re: Eeh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're saying only women should be prostitutes?

    3. Re:Eeh by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 2, Informative

      What's the use of having all the money in the world if you can't use it to purchase some world class vagina every once in a while?

      They can. It's legal in Nevada, parts of Australia, New Zealand, Austria, Belgium, Brazil, Colombia, Denmark, Ecuador, France, Germany, ...

      Those guys almost certainly could afford the plane tickets.

    4. Re:Eeh by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

      Odd statement considering that having money brings vagina to you.

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    5. Re:Eeh by gweihir · · Score: 1

      As stated by several famous ladies in the business. Quite right.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    6. Re:Eeh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Mod parent up.

    7. Re:Eeh by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      It's not legal in France any more, exactly. They criminalised paying for sex just this year. The prostitution itsself doesn't isn't illegal for the prostitute, just the customer, but there are also a lot of prostitution-related prohibited acts that effectively keep prostitutes underground anyway - it's illegal for them to ask for money, to advertise as a prostitute or to operate any premises for the purpose of prostitution. It's also illegal for to receive payment from a prostitute in relation to their services, so it's effectively impossible to organise - any manager in a structured group would be considered a pimp, so they can only operate in isolation. It's impossible to be a prostitute without operating outside the law, so for all practical purposes it's illegal.

      Prostitution is still legal in Germany though, and regulated, and it isn't forced underground like in France. They still get exploited, but only in the conventional business manner: Supply is plentiful so pay is a pittance, and brothel owners quickly realised that they can skirt around all the expenses of labor law and employee rights like health-and-safety law, health insurance and pension contributions if they don't actually hire any prostitutes - instead the prostitutes are freelancers and pay brothels a fixed daily fee in return for being permitted to ply their trade on the premises. This situation may change though, as there is substantial pressure from the EU for all member states to adopt the same model as France.

    8. Re:Eeh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This isn't the case when the industry is strictly regulated. In Australia the Law and Sex worker Health (LASH) report found the use of condoms for vaginal and anal sex was 99-100%. It's an offense to allow infected people to work in a brothel and because of the nature of the industry and the people it offends, it is strictly audited. As such sex workers are routinely checked (depending on your state, monthly) for any infection. Sex workers must be educated about the dangers involved in their work and are taught to look for common signs of infection. As a customer you can expect at least a visual inspection (usually with a light box) before anybody will go near you.

      The rate of infection in sex workers is in fact consistently lower than that of the general population.

      TL;DR: You're more likely to find your honey pot with a random hookup from the general population or from something illegal. ;)

    9. Re:Eeh by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "brothel owners quickly realised that they can skirt around all the expenses of labor law and employee rights like health-and-safety law, health insurance and pension contributions if they don't actually hire any prostitutes - instead the prostitutes are freelancers and pay brothels a fixed daily fee in return for being permitted to ply their trade on the premises."

      Still, when it is Uber the one doing it, it somehow becomes "new economy" and fair play.

    10. Re:Eeh by swb · · Score: 1

      I thought I had read of that as being called "the Swedish model" because Sweden adopted it first. It tries for the most part to make the prostitute not a criminal, but the men buying sex criminals without actually making prostitution legal.

    11. Re:Eeh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      James Taylor !!!
      Wha' da hell are you doin talking about pros'itutes to the children!
      Go on! Get outta here!

    12. Re:Eeh by phayes · · Score: 1

      You're correct. France just adopted the swedish model recently.

      --
      Democracy is a sheep and two wolves deciding what to have for lunch. Freedom is a well armed sheep contesting the issue
    13. Re:Eeh by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes I've read that. And quite frankly I was very surprised. Prostitution has been reviled and mostly illegal through most of history, but no country before ever thought, you know what, paying the prostitute should be illegal. I'm sure the fact that the men in governments frequently used prostitutes has nothing do with that.
      Despicable.

    14. Re:Eeh by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      The UK runs the same approach. It's supposed to be a shift in thinking to stop regarding prostitutes as criminals and start regarding them as victims. Well intentioned, but in practice it's still 'criminal enough' to keep the industry underground and prostitutes on the fringes. Yes, they can go to the police if they are abused... but they won't. It's bad for business if the police start investigating an incident and arresting their customers, and there's not much the police can do anyway when customers are understandably unwilling to supply proof of identity or payment.

    15. Re:Eeh by Imrik · · Score: 1

      The people that ask to be paid at the end generally call it alimony.

    16. Re:Eeh by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

      Actually, prostitution was often legal throughout history, even in societies where it was reviled. In 19th century, it was frequently regulated, with prostitutes required to register and have a license, for which they had to undergo medical checks. For example, here is such a license (which also doubles as health exam log book) for a Russian prostitute, issued in 1904.

  13. Re:Did you know? by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 5, Funny

    "Can anyone provide any real evidence to disprove these facts?"

    I can't disprove that your head is a giant cabbage either, but in this case that would be a pretty good guess.

  14. Seized domains by fred911 · · Score: 2

    Something not mentioned in the post. Here's a much better article: http://www.seattletimes.com/se...

      So they arrested the clients and let the webmaster unmolested?

    --
    09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B - D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 45 5F E1 04 22 CA 29 C4 93 3F 95 05 2B 79 2A B2
    1. Re:Seized domains by TheReaperD · · Score: 1

      It just proves that this is all about headlines and has nothing to do with actual justice.

      --
      "Be particularly skeptical when presented with evidence confirming what you already believe." -
    2. Re:Seized domains by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The article said that one of those arrested was the webmaster of the two sites,

    3. Re:Seized domains by PPH · · Score: 1

      charged with promoting prostitution after being infiltrated by undercover detectives

      Law enforcement: It's a tough job. But somebody has got to do it.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
    4. Re:Seized domains by Sir+Holo · · Score: 1

      Something not mentioned in the post. Here's a much better article: http://www.seattletimes.com/se...

        So they arrested the clients and let the webmaster unmolested?

      They did indeed arrest the webmaster, too. His website was 'product-specific', so he is probably in it deep. But, then again, this is prostitution, where the court system and legislators tend to let people off light.

      Compare this to the treatment of Ross Ulbricht, whose Silk Road was simply a libertarian version of ebay, with a few restrictions – "no child porn, no guns, no violence" – something like that. The 'murder-for-hire' allegations were invented by the FBI to make him look bad at trial. They were thrown-out of evidence – meaning that the news outlets could report on these 'allegations' freely without "tainting the jury pool." It was a nasty move by the FBI, who've even stated that they are "making an example" to warn others. That is inequitable enforcement of law.

      BTW: Ross is engaging in his own type of socially-positive 'revenge' – TEACHING fellow inmates about math, chemistry, physics, and so on. He has a an MS in Engineering. They will emerge from their sentences having learned as much as they wanted/could about topics that will help get one a job, or at least understand the world that they live in, once released. That is – his fellow residents are getting an in-custody education (up to the college level) for free.

      It probably also helps to keep Ross sane while in confinement.

  15. Trafficking/slavery vs. sex work by dumky2 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Yes. Unfortunately, most of the recent bills passed to fight actual slavery (including sex slavery) have been used to fight sex work instead.
    With legalized prostitution, it is much easier to help actual trafficking victims escape. This is the real harm of conflating trafficking/slavery with sex work.

    As this article titles: The War on Sex Trafficking Is the New War on Drugs. And the results will be just as disastrous, for "perpetrators" and "victims" alike.
    http://reason.com/archives/201...

    --
    These comments are mine; I do not speak for my employer.
    1. Re:Trafficking/slavery vs. sex work by tommeke100 · · Score: 1

      That's because it's always easier to go after the low hanging fruit. You just need one simple sting operation to catch tens of customers and prostitutes. Rolling up an Asian sex trafficking network takes way more research and women willing to testify. These women probably have family in their home country that the sex traffickers (which are probably involved in local maffia as well) can use as leverage. So it's an easy choice between putting 10 local cops on the street for a sting operation, getting same day results and a nice news report on the 11 o'clock news versus months and years of research with possible mixed results.

  16. Submitter is also marketing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Looks like the submitter is trying to market the prosecution too with words like "vulnerable...exploited...". If they have sex and receive money, how is that worse than having sex and getting gifts? It's not worse, and if she needs the money you're doing her a favor by giving her money.

    As for "previously had made his living off illegal marijuana grows, but moved into prostitution when the drug was legalized."... again marketing a baddie who is bad to the core. It has nothing to do with the claim against these men.

    These men had sex with willing women and rewarded those women for the sex with money (instead of gifts). If you want to empower the women, make prostitution legal so they get more of the money. Giving them 'good reviews' is free speech not pimping.

    There's nothing wrong with prostitution, and sex is the healthy interaction between men and women. This feminist crap is the *unhealthy* way to live.

    1. Re:Submitter is also marketing by SuricouRaven · · Score: 4, Insightful

      A lot of prostitutes are exploited - by their employers. It's an underground industry, so they can't go to the police for help - if their pimp threatens them with violence, or withholds pay, or assaults them, there's nothing much they can do - certainly can't go to the police. Legalisation would make it a lot easier to maintain safe working conditions.

    2. Re:Submitter is also marketing by turbidostato · · Score: 2

      "Looks like the submitter is trying to market the prosecution too with words like "vulnerable...exploited...". If they have sex and receive money, how is that worse than having sex and getting gifts? It's not worse, and if she needs the money you're doing her a favor by giving her money.
      [...]
      As for "previously had made his living off illegal marijuana grows, but moved into prostitution when the drug was legalized."... again marketing a baddie who is bad to the core. It has nothing to do with the claim against these men.
      [...]
      There's nothing wrong with prostitution"

      Not too smart, are you?

      No. What is read between lines is not what you got but this: Bad guys are bad guys but, since marijuana was legalized bad guys needed to go elsewhere. Now, the problem here is *not* prostitution, which is basically another crime without victims, but the fact that, being illegal, it attracts bad guys that exploit people, which *is* the real crime. So if we legalized prostitution just like we did with marijuana the bad guy will need to go -again, elsewhere.

    3. Re: Submitter is also marketing by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many women do you know that are looking for a "sweet boy next door" type, and don't mind supporting him?

      Zero.

      99% of women are looking to "marry up"

      And *this* is why women *hate* hookers. Hookers do an end run around the *real* hookers who play the 'long game'.

    4. Re: Submitter is also marketing by umghhh · · Score: 1

      Could it be that TFA said something about men buying sex from women?

    5. Re:Submitter is also marketing by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Margins are better on illegal activity - capitalist through and through. Higher risk = higher reward.

    6. Re:Submitter is also marketing by Imrik · · Score: 1

      Actually, at least in the area the article is about, they can go to the police for help, they just don't realize it.

    7. Re:Submitter is also marketing by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      "King County Prosecutors said in January, adding that the women, who were forced into prostitution to pay off debts to organized crime bosses in Asia, are not being charged."

      That means they *could* be charged. If prosecutors wanted. They aren't going to do so because it's really bad PR to charge someone for a crime they were forced to commit, but for an ordinary non-trafficked prostitute there is no guarantee the decision will be the same. The prostitute can report her violent customer, the police arrest him for assault - then they may well turn around and arrest her as well.

    8. Re:Submitter is also marketing by nbauman · · Score: 1

      Bad guys are bad guys but, since marijuana was legalized bad guys needed to go elsewhere.

      Why is somebody who sells marijuana a bad guy?

    9. Re:Submitter is also marketing by sexconker · · Score: 1

      It means they coerced a couple of prostitutes to agree to say that they were forced into it, thus letting them trump up the charges on the men.
      They let the prostitute get free room and board at a halfway house, get them a social worker, or maybe just look the other way on the prostitution and drug charges they could easily throw at them.
      Prosecutors are all about having bigger fish to fry, real or imagined.

    10. Re:Submitter is also marketing by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "Why is somebody who sells marijuana a bad guy?"

      Wrong question.

      The right one is: why bad guys sell marijuana?

  17. Love the details. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With all that detailed information, it's like I'm practically being told to hate these men and pity these women, because... because we're telling you to. I guess we've reached the point now where you need to have a signed release form for every time you pay for sex, meaning you have to fly out to a place where it's legal to do it, find a place that's on the up-and-up, etc. Or just go without sex if you're too married to your job. I can't wait to see the headlines about the judge in this, once they're inevitably embroiled in a similar fiasco.

  18. Re: Did you know? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You are a huge idiot. Go back to the rock you crawled out from, you moron.

  19. An obvious solution.... by misnohmer · · Score: 1

    "[he] previously had made his living off illegal marijuana grows, but moved into prostitution when the drug was legalized." I wonder what the government could do to make him and people like him stop (or move out of) prostitution.

    1. Re:An obvious solution.... by DoofusOfDeath · · Score: 2

      "[he] previously had made his living off illegal marijuana grows, but moved into prostitution when the drug was legalized." I wonder what the government could do to make him and people like him stop (or move out of) prostitution.

      It only takes one bullet, or if you're cheap, one baseball bat. Or if you're really cheap, one father of a girl who was forced into it.

    2. Re:An obvious solution.... by gweihir · · Score: 0

      Basically no girls are being forced into it, a pot-smoker that had a bad high is a far more real risk.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    3. Re:An obvious solution.... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I wouldn't say *no* women are, but I believe the trafficking situation is greatly exaggerated. It's basic economics - an operation like that has to be expensive. You've got to find suitable women, trap them with a suitable scam, arrange travel, arrange accommodation, and keep them under constant guard - and you have to do that for a long enough time that they can be properly broken, otherwise they are going to be whispering to every customer to call the police. It's going to be expensive and it's going to be high-risk, and they won't command the highest prices anyway, plus you'd need a whole criminal gang to organise the travel and maintain guard. In places where there is a chronic shortage of prostitutes you could make money off that - but the US has plenty of women desperate for money. Surely it would be much safer to simply hire someone local? They'd demand a higher proportion of the takings, but one person could manage a lot more prostitutes and the risk of police detection is much lower.

      I've seen lots of scary statistics telling of the tens of thousands of women forced into prostitution each year in the US - but I've also seen a lot of criticism of the manner in which these statistics are gathered, and the wildly varying estimates by different organisations appear suspicious. I see a moral panic in progress: The problem exists, but the scale is far less than widely believed.

    4. Re:An obvious solution.... by _merlin · · Score: 1

      Prostitution is legal and regulated in Australia, but you still get human trafficking cases. Interestingly, it's usually legal, licensed brothels that are involved in human trafficking/sex slavery. The illegal unlicensed businesses are usually just students or people on tourist visas (who shouldn't be working) trying to make some money on the side.

    5. Re:An obvious solution.... by SuricouRaven · · Score: 1

      You still get those cases, but how commonplace are they as a percentage of prostitutes? Is it a common enough crime to be seriously concerned with, or just a handful of cases that have been plastered all over the media and created the false impression that it happens all the time?

    6. Re:An obvious solution.... by _merlin · · Score: 1

      Oh it doesn't happen all the time, it's relatively rare in the scale of things. Most prostitutes in Australia are single mothers fucking for their kids, students trying to make a few bucks on the side, or people who have fallen through the gaps in society. Legalisation/regulation of prostitution is far better than the alternative - it makes it safer for everyone involved, allows government to tax it, lets police focus on actual crimes rather than prosecuting vulnerable women, etc.

      I just think it's interesting that when human trafficking does happen, it's invariably connected to licensed brothels rather than unlicensed ones.

  20. Re: Difference between rapist and rappers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "Ed2k" shows me a bunch of excel spreadsheets. "Chan" showed me photos of Jackie chan. Wtf, secret keywords...

  21. One purpose of msg board is to avoid criminals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I agree that it would be despicable to be knowingly be involved with sex slavery in any way. I'd also like to add some relevant information.

    It's true that many women involved in prostitution are being coerced, either in the trafficking scenario or old-fashioned pimping. It's ALSO true that many women involved in prostitution freely decided that they'd like to make $250-$400 per hour. Further, in most (not all) cases it's pretty easy to tell the difference.

    >then these guys are despicable because they quite likely realize what's going on

    It sounds like these guys were active on some relevant forums, so yes they would have had at least a general idea that coerced prostitution exists. They certainly had plenty of information about which ladies to call if they wanted cheerful service from someone who was happy to have them as a client, without the obvious risks of entering a organized crime facility and stripping naked. People who abduct women, smuggle them across borders, and force them into prostitution are NOT the kind of people you want walking in the room while you're naked and defenseless. Same with garden-variety gangsta thug pimps. A john doesn't want to be in that situation.

      Besides the risks of dealing with gangsters, have you ever had a high-end massage or other service provider where you're paying more than $150/hour? The professional is happy to have you as a client and the service you receive is FAR better than the service at Taco Bell, where the employee doesn't really want to be there. High-end escorts vs pimped women are no different. If the lady is keeping the $250 for herself, the john will get much better service than if a pimp is taking the money and she's been forced. For those reasons, informed customers generally wouldn't be at all interested in a lady with a pimp, even if they had no moral compass.

    The review (and advertising) boards make it pretty darn easy to find ladies who appreciate their customers and even enjoy their work, and to avoid the pimps.

  22. Ok, I'm confused... by jcr · · Score: 2

    Why would anyone running a prostitution reviews site host it in the USA? Aren't there any number of countries with reasonably fast internet service where it's legal?

    -jcr

    --
    The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
  23. click bait by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    no one is this stupid.

  24. Puritans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What do you expect from America? These guys were after all a bunvh of Puritans whose prudish ideas were too mych forbthem to fit in in Britain.

  25. 70 is a lot! by engineerErrant · · Score: 1

    He wouldn't have to re-start so often if he were using a Mac.

    1. Re:70 is a lot! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was El Capitan. Hey-oh!

  26. sexuall freedom by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    John Kennedy, who had a new sexual partner nearly every day after his morning swim in the White House, and a sexual affair with a 19-year oldo WH page 3 days before his assassination in Dallas, was the last public figure whose privacy has been respect4d by the MEDIA. Like, what good is it to work harde and become a public figure if you can't have a fu---ing piece of a--?

  27. Sounds like bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The women are powerless victims of evil men. Sounds like the standard feminist bullshit. The idea is that a review on a website can be considered promotion of a prostitute will be the main point of the procedings. The men might argue that the listing itself is promotion and their reviews are not. A person needs to actively browse to the website to see the review so she is already looking to buy sex. Is writing that review the same as actively seeking new customers in other ways? Dont think so.

  28. Re:Hillary = Feminazi by jellomizer · · Score: 3, Informative

    Do you have evidence outside that that would be her political stance (not personal) on the topic.
    Hillary is too much of a political sell out fe be a Feminazi.
    Beside in the United States prostitution laws are controlled by each individual state. For the most part doesn't have much political action asking such rules to be pushed on a national level.

    Besides her stance on women's rights has been towards less regulation on what a woman can do because they are a woman not more.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  29. So if you want get get rid of crime, legalize by SuperKendall · · Score: 2

    one alleged brothel owner "previously had made his living off illegal marijuana grows, but moved into prostitution when the drug was legalized."

    So following simple logic, if you wanted get get him out of exploiting prostitution...

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:So if you want get get rid of crime, legalize by gweihir · · Score: 1

      legalize prostitution and get him into politics?

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    2. Re:So if you want get get rid of crime, legalize by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      Well, I was thinking more to get him out of crime than deeper in, so I'm not sure about your second item.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    3. Re:So if you want get get rid of crime, legalize by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Good point. I was thinking of repeating the pattern, but your idea is obviously better.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    4. Re:So if you want get get rid of crime, legalize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "legalize prostitution and get him into politics?"

      Are the two that different? I wish I was kidding...

    5. Re:So if you want get get rid of crime, legalize by gweihir · · Score: 1

      The average prostitute has personal honor, and has things she will not do for money. Politicians, on the other hand...

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  30. Seattle is a very corrupt city? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    More about Seattle:

    Worse than Wal-Mart: Amazon's sick brutality and secret history of ruthlessly intimidating workers.

    These are the real reasons for Seattle's terrible traffic.

    "The rich control everything in Seattle. Bill Gates ... wants obedient little workers that never, ever, EVER ask questions."

    More quotes:

    "Now there's Jeff Bezos and his army of autistic sociopaths at Amazon. Their corporate culture is an absolute rejection of all human qualities..."

    "Seattle lacks culture due to all the neurotic, arrogant, immature, rule obsessed, passive aggressive, conformists who couldn't socialize or drive to save their lives..."

    "Seattle: Hateful people. People who never smile. People here always seem mean. No one ever seems happy here. Lots of bullies here. Lots of ... people here with weird neurotic hang-ups. People here lack ANY social skills... Socially retarded is the word."

    Our Social Dis-ease: Beyond the smiles, the Seattle Freeze is on

    1. Re:Seattle is a very corrupt city? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I started to read the links you sent.

      The first one. Not bad. Jeff Bezos is a fucking ass.
      Second one looks like it is commentary from a local radio station, and he seems to be more intent on bitching about unions (the very thing that could fix the problem in post one) and claiming that they work they do is just make busy work, and they don't focus on getting traffic to flow freely. His bitches here was a noise barrier wall to protect a neighborhood from freeway noise and animal over/underpasses. Honestly I am in favor of both of these things, and it sounds like he just wants to bitch.
      Third one looks to be a forum of Seattle haters for Seattle haters. Of which the first post is bitching about not enough women in the city and how he cant get any of their attention cause they are always looking at their phones.

      You went down hill fast here buddy.

    2. Re:Seattle is a very corrupt city? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      For more on Amazon's approach to employees, there is this 6,000 article: The Life And Death Of An Amazon Wharehouse Temp.

    3. Re:Seattle is a very corrupt city? by PPH · · Score: 1

      Yes, it is. And that goes all the way back to some of our major political figures' involvement in liquor smuggling during Prohibition. More recently, Seattle's cabaret laws were written to perpetuate the Colacurcio family monopoly of strip clubs. And they were probably written with input from Frank himself. According to some NGOs involved in stopping sex trafficking, Seattle's laws bear striking resemblances to those in some Asian countries designed to keep sex workers indentured to specific clubs. And one of the most significant lobbying forces to keep Seattle's laws as they are is law enforcement. Who spend quite a bit of time sending undercover officers into clubs with our tax dollars to buy lap dances.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  31. Perfect product for these guys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looks like they need a Dash button for their habits

  32. Answer: White Privledge by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

    No time to stop the swiftly-rising rising murder rate

    For reasons of culture and demographics, at some point dealing with murder in the US becomes "racist." High end prostitution, on the other hand, typically involves a lot of wealthy whites, and thus more profile and less controversy for LEOs.

  33. Re:The victims by unimacs · · Score: 4, Informative

    Read a little closer. These aren't women who chose to be prostitutes rather than being dental hygienists or auto mechanics. They were coerced or forced into prostitution to pay off debts to organized crime bosses. Debts that may have not have even been their own but of their family members. They were neither safe nor secure and it's doubtful they were allowed to keep much of the money.

    How much were the Amazon and Microsoft directors aware of this exploitation? Don't know, but apparently the prosecutors think they knew these women didn't have many other options.

  34. Not the criminals by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ... organized crime bosses in Asia ...

    The USA can issue arrest warrants for employed Chinese soldiers, but not for serious criminals. The USA isn't a signatory to "Convention for the Suppression of the Traffic in Persons and of the Exploitation of the Prostitution of Others" (1949), or "Protocol to Prevent, Suppress and Punish Trafficking in Persons, especially Women and Children" (2003).

  35. You don't understand!!! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sex for hire equals social unjustice because obviously emancipated womyn[tm][r][c] would NEVAR hire out for sex. Therefore sex trafficking. And of course it's safe and respectable and the right thing to do to point fingers at any and all males in the vicinity, the higher profile, the better. So if you're looking for that promotion, why, dear special government agent person sir, go find yourself some nice vice violations to go after. Invent some perps and string'em up high in public. Nobody will dare oppose and nobody will dare speak up, because vice, so easy does it. It's social justice through the law, for great justice!

  36. Glad it isn't me, but if it was... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    ... I'd take the stand with something like the following:

    Why yes, dear jury, 20 out of 29 prostitutes I hired were better than expected. The other nine, five were about average and the last four delivered disappointing service. I duly noted this in my reviews. But even the average service got decent tips and the good performers I tipped well. I think it pays to encourage good service.

    And so what if they were prostitutes? We're all hiring ourself out to get by, or to do better than merely get by. In fact, in my line of work, making use of prostitution services is almost mandatory.

    You see, I don't really have time to woo a woman except with money, and all that gets me is an expensive trophy wife. Those are no good in bed, let me tell you, I tried. This is a general problem when trying to meet women socially. Before you know it they're in it just for the money or that promotion. And if that promotion doesn't come through for some reason, it's sexual harassment suits. So I keep my pants on when on the job. But like any busy man I like and need to blow off some steam now and then. In fact, it's a necessity to keep a happy and productive atmoshphere in the office, too. We all work hard and need to wind down
    sometimes.

    So I'm too busy to go out, I can't fuck around on the job, and I can't hook someone who'll be interested in me more than my money. And if we're going there anyway, might as well be honest about it. So yes, dear jury, I hire prostitutes for sex. At least I know where they stand, I know they'll be good at it, and they'll know I'm a good customer and tip well.

    In fact I already went the extra mile and helped them get more and better quality custom. By posting honest reviews I helped them get better paying clients. What more do you want of me?

    1. Re:Glad it isn't me, but if it was... by JoeMerchant · · Score: 1

      Pleading guilty to 79 counts of misdemeanor activity with no remorse.

      The morality or reality of the situation is irrelevant in court they decide legality.

    2. Re:Glad it isn't me, but if it was... by Imrik · · Score: 2

      What more do you want of me?

      We the jury would prefer you stop supporting slave labor.

    3. Re:Glad it isn't me, but if it was... by lgw · · Score: 2

      We the jury would prefer you stop supporting slave labor.

      So, wait, paying someone to do a job is slave labor, while not paying someone to do the same job is ... OK?

      --
      Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
    4. Re:Glad it isn't me, but if it was... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's where "jury nullification" is supposed to come in. But because, indeed, judges prefer their job to run on the rails of the morality of an eight year old, "the rules is them rules and that's all there is to it", sure, they'd rather the jury not even know about jury nullification.

      Also, let me point out that it's not "show no remorse, instead it's "show remorse is neither necessary nor appropriate". That's a different kettle of fish entirely. If you truly believe and can convincingly argue that your actions are not harmful to all involved then they need not be illegal, and so aren't so much above the law as have outgrown its training wheels. Note that this is well above and beyond what is required of you defending yourself, since it's the job of the prosecution to show you guilty; you can defend yourself against the allegations but you're supposedly innocent until proven guilty. Of course, doing this you've shown the law to be inadequate, which easily happens because lawmakers often are but a half-step ahead of criminals themselves, and showing the law to be less than perfect is of course not done at all, nosiree, we need to keep up the charade. Instead of fixing the law, eh.

      The problem here is that the law in this case seems misapplied (and overly broad and prudish to boot, making the correct solution to repeal the law or at least word it more narrowly), so either the suit ought to be tossed out because that's not what this law is for, or perhaps "no actual harm demonstrated". Of course, the question isn't "was there any harm done?" but "can we get these guise on the charges we so deliberately constructed?" which again isn't really what the justice system ought to be there for, but what it is systematically being used for. Were I jury, I'd be very tempted to decide not guilty because the prosecutor is being too blatantly angling for that promotion on appearances, and not working toward a safer community at all.

      There is also that this sort of law too easily becomes law legislating morality, making the argument "no morality, only legality" a tad ironic of the biting kind.

    5. Re:Glad it isn't me, but if it was... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If they're not paid, it'd better not be a "job."

      And the payments are going to support the people enslaving them, so no, that's not okay.

      It's like all the people who hate the war on drugs, but who gladly support the drug cartels by giving them money.

    6. Re: Glad it isn't me, but if it was... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "It's like all the people who hate the war on drugs, but who gladly support the drug cartels by giving them money."

      What other fucking option is there? Grow everything yourself. Gtfoh.

    7. Re:Glad it isn't me, but if it was... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If that "someone" doesn't get to keep the money and doesn't have the option of quitting then, yes, that's slave labour. That sadly-typical scenario is at GP is referring to.

  37. Re:Did you know? by umghhh · · Score: 1

    Water melon?

  38. that is normal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    reviewing prostitutes is totally normal, and probably more straightforward and sincere than, lets say, reviewing videogames (gamergate, somehow the name came to mind just after hearing the word prostitutes. i wonder how that happened LOL).

    its an entirely community driven stuff that happens in some websites. For example, in my country there are sites for that, they review the place, the prostitutes, hell the place sometimes has gps coordinates and stuff so no one gets lost on the way to fucking

    disclaimer: not a client, i just read a lot about basically anything

  39. Protection Racket? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like someone didn't pay their "protection" fee...

    "It would be a shame if word got out, wouldn't it? You seem reasonable so I'm sure we can work something out."

  40. Re:The victims by misexistentialist · · Score: 1

    Women found breaking the law said it so it must be true...What would you do if an "organized crime boss" demanded something from you? This isn't Juarez, America has the rule of law

  41. H1B1s finest by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    need only submit their application.

  42. Washington DC should be a crime zone by Trachman · · Score: 0

    What happened is that they said they hired women and they exercised their free speech and talked about it in internet. Well they work for the internet companies and rather than talking to their friends, they blabbered on internet. Now that has been used against them.

    Washington DC should be a cordoned crime zone if standards applied to these two gentleman would be applied the nation's capital.

    Funny thing is that women are against the legalization of prostitution, but man are generally cool with that... In every economic model, if something is made illegal it usually results in increased prices.

  43. Fucking Bullshit! by aaarrrgggh · · Score: 1

    Having spent some time living in Thailand, I can tell you that things are much more complicated than your assumption. Girls are sold to brothels by parents, and the girls feel some weird family commitment to send money back home! Societally, the whole system is so fsckd up that you actually see more anti sex trafficking ads in the us than Bangkok!

    I'm no Puritan, but things are getting pretty messed up, and something needs to be done to stop it.

    1. Re:Fucking Bullshit! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's your point? That it should remain illegal in the US because Thailand has a social problem in which families actually sell girls to brothels?

      I'm not sure what you are trying to say, whether you are in favor or against legal prostitution in the US.

  44. Why is prostitution illegal? by swb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Why is prostitution illegal at all?

    One of the most common lines is "prostitution exploits women" -- if that's the case, then why are prostitutes arrested? Wouldn't they then be the victims? At least in the EU that seems to be emerging model, with Sweden and now France making accepting money for sex not illegal, but paying money for sex illegal. But that's very recent, and not generally reflective of long standing practices and criminal law.

    A more enduring answer seems to be that it's merely reflective of anti-sex morality, the same mindset that used to criminalize pornography, birth control and made sodomy and adultery actual crimes. Although most all of those things have mostly stopped being illegal, as society on balance has become accepting of sex as recreation -- sodomy and adultery laws have mostly been overturned or aren't enforced anymore, singles bars, Craigslist/Tinder/Grindr, etc. And also, in not the not so distant past, society was more tolerant of prostitution -- brothels operated more openly -- despite a generally stronger social prohibition on sex outside of marriage.

    I think prostitution remains illegal -- with the public justification shifting in spite of general acceptance of sex outside of wedlock -- because women don't like prostitution. Despite the general changes in attitude about sex outside of marriage, women still see sexuality as a significant bargaining chip in social relations with men. Legalized prostitution thus represents a threat to women's bargaining status in relationships.

    If men can buy sex whenever they want it for only money, women lose a significant bargaining advantage in relationships with men. Their sexuality no longer represents a scarce good or service and they can no longer structure their relationship demands around controlling access to sex. Which seems really ironic, since women often loudly decry being seen as "sex objects" and want to be valued for their intelligence or other personality traits, yet it seems as in spite of that, women continue to see their sexuality as primary tool in attracting and maintaining mail interest in relationships.

    You would think that *women* would want prostitution legal, though, because it would in theory act as a kind of filter for men they wish to engage in more substantive relationships with. It would, in theory, make the pool of men they encounter to more likely be interested in non-sexual aspects of a relationship, reducing the effort needed to filter men who falsify their intentions in order to gain sex.

    1. Re:Why is prostitution illegal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why buy the cow when you can get the milk for a low, stable price?

      Still, you would think that today's women's rights activists would go after legalizing prostitution sooner abortion. It's the lower hanging fruit. It's not like you're potentially killing a kid with the act, and with legalized prostitution access to contraceptives and preventatives should increase.

    2. Re:Why is prostitution illegal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think prostitution remains illegal -- with the public justification shifting in spite of general acceptance of sex outside of wedlock

      No - it remains illegal because no politician in the US would ever stick their neck out and suggest legalizing it. Look what happened with HB2 in North Carolina - do you really think you could take a social issue even more controversial to a national level?

      It will remain the decision of the states and thereafter individual counties as to whether they wish to legalize it or not. Wikipedia has a nice writeup on Las Veags in particular: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.... Short-version - it's illegal because they want to keep it more "family-friendly". Sin City, family friendly. Good luck. Proper legalization and regulation would protect both the workers and clients - of ALL genders.

    3. Re:Why is prostitution illegal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I always though the same things as you, that the reason why prostitution is illegal is mostly because women do not want it to be legal (as it weakens their position withing a relationship if they control access to sex). And this seems a mostly Western phenomenon, a lot of countries around the world EXPECT men to frequent brothels to take care of their needs and not waste a young woman's time if their intentions are less than honorable.

      Also I never understood how when it comes to prostitution, it's seen as exploitation.
      Person needs money, person is willing to do some activity that somebody else values to generate income, otherwise they starve, lose their home, etc.....
      This is called working in all other industries. You think the people collecting money for picking up trash or mopping floors, or making your bead do it out of love for their job? Helllll nooooo.....you think they have other options but choose those jobs? Helll no.......and yet people are "trafficked" into richer nations to do those jobs as well....But nobody is calling them victims...in fact a lot of people see it as a positive, as them trying to better their outcome in life.

      And on a final note, a lot of the issues of criminal gangs in prostitution would disappear if it where legalized and taxed and regulated instead of trying to impose a prohibitionist policy, that has been proven time and time again to not work when there is a demand and simply just ruins lives.

    4. Re:Why is prostitution illegal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, I can't tell if you're an economist, sociologist, or game theorist.

    5. Re:Why is prostitution illegal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I understand that you don't know this, out of inexperience maybe, but women have the same urge for sex as men do. It is not something they let men do to them when they feel the "man" have done something really, really good. Most women enjoy sex, believe it or not. It is not a tool of control unless you want it to be, but then a man could use it as well.

    6. Re:Why is prostitution illegal? by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

      It would, in theory, make the pool of men they encounter to more likely be interested in non-sexual aspects of a relationship, reducing the effort needed to filter men who falsify their intentions in order to gain sex.

      Yeah, but
      a) It's a smaller pool, and
      b) They lose the ability to pretend to be interested in sexual activities.

      That second one is important - a woman who isn't interested in sex with a particular man will still want that man to hang around because of the benefits of having a doormat and a fallback option in case the man she is having sex with doesn't want to settle down with her. To do this, they pretend that intimacy is not out of the question for the second-choice-man.

      Having prostitutes around means that the second-choice-man is not going to hang around in the hope he gets laid, he's simply going to get laid, which is why it's only ever women against prostitution.

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
    7. Re:Why is prostitution illegal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You missed an excellent chance diss religion once again. You must be new here.

    8. Re:Why is prostitution illegal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      At least in the EU that seems to be emerging model, with Sweden and now France making accepting money for sex not illegal, but paying money for sex illegal.

      So instead of paying the lady for sex, what about paying her to go away and not bother you again?

    9. Re:Why is prostitution illegal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What I do not understand is why only some varieties of prostitution are deemed to be unacceptable. A young woman who has sex with a high executive of some fashion magazine, a movie producer, an acclaimed photographer, etc. is, for the most part, not doing so because she is infatuated with they guy, but because she is expecting to get reimbursed for her services, not necessarily with hard cash, but in the way of opportunities, promotions, etc. that such an individual has the power to dispense - the young women that jump into bed with Hugh Hefner these days probably do not do it because the guy's alleged sexual prowess or irresistible body; they are expecting retribution for their services, which they do get. This is prostitution, but it takes place openly every day, and most people just accept it. It is mystifying that this is fine, but for a woman to get money for a specific session of sex, is not. The new legal trends in Sweden and France are just upholding and reinforcing this status quo.

    10. Re:Why is prostitution illegal? by swb · · Score: 1

      Ironically, my experience suggests women *don't* like sex as much as men do.

      I'm 49, married for 17 years to a woman I've cohabited with for 21 years. Of the dozen plus men I know in my age/socioeconomic demographic, ALL complain about their wives lack of interest in sex.

      Once you filter past the life circumstances of being a full-time professional, parent and homeowner, the pattern is remarkably consistent -- a frequent "not tonight" refusal of advances, an occasional half-hearted acquiescence, and the least frequent genuine engagement, running about 4-8 weeks.

      My guess is this is largely a function of reproductive evolutionary biology, as women who have borne children and are past 40 have little reason to engage in sex. Pregnancies past 40 are at a high risk for chromosomal defects (resulting in labor-intensive maintenance which might threaten resources for existing healthy children) or other health risks which might imperil the mother's health, not to mention the time and resource investments required for an infant.

    11. Re:Why is prostitution illegal? by swb · · Score: 1

      That's the other thing, it's quite obvious that women use sex as an arbitrage tool all the time to advance their life situation.

      I do a lot of work for a very wealthy country club and with few exceptions, the wives of members I've seen are all very attractive and very fit, far more so than the average in my more average middle class demographic. If you don't think these women are using their sexuality to maintain a life of luxury enabled by their husband's income, you're kidding yourself.

    12. Re:Why is prostitution illegal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why is prostitution illegal at all?

      All the reasons given to 'justify' this are simply a smokescreen. They all collapse when examined in the light of successful legalization of prostitution in many countries around the world, including modern civilized states.

      In politics, the illusion of justification is more important than the reality.

      The reality is that separation of church and state is a basic right, protected under the US Bill of Rights. The laws against prostitution exist for one and only one reason: religion. The politicians passing these illegal laws, and having their minions enforcing them, want the religious vote. Many religions today disapprove of prostitution, though these same religions didn't always take that stance.

      As in other matters, the religious nuts aren't interested in logic or reason. They would rather have women exploited by criminal gangs then legalize prostitution and have the problem go away.

      There's always some members of the police force who are happy to enforce illegal laws in order to gain promotions and the favor of their political superiors. Roughly 20% of human beings are sociopaths, looking out for their own interests at the expense of society, and the police force has lots of these people.

      In this, as in so many other matters, the politicians, the police, and the religious nuts both treat the Bill of Rights as if it were toilet paper. The illusion of rights is what matters, not the reality, to keep the plebes under control.

      The US legal profession is ok with this. They use the Bill of Rights to defend rich clients, except when doing so threatens the livelihood of their profession. It's a convenient tool that can be discarded as needed. The 9th Amendment is particularly problematic for the lawyers - since the dual rights to ethical practice of law and ethical government arise under it - so they won't allow it to be used in this case. The judges and prosecutors have their own agendas as well.

      It's the same collection of factors that allowed slavery to continue in the USA for so long: corruption in politics, unethical lawyers, religious collusion, and sociopathic law enforcement. For that matter, it's the same collection of factors that allowed the Jim Crow laws - racial discrimination laws, to continue for so long.

      This is not to say that all politicians, lawyers, priests, and police officers are bad: there are some good ones, but they're clearly a minority.

  45. Re:Hillary = Feminazi by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't worry, Drumpf will stop all immigration, except for prostitutes.

  46. A pimp's love by U2xhc2hkb3QgU3Vja3M · · Score: 1

    Officer Collins: [addressing military brass] You see, a pimp's love is very different from that of a square...

  47. you have nailed by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You have nailed it with logic. I bet your explanation would be down-voted by women, without any logical reason.

    Mothers have always been advising their daughters that more affluent man is better. Even if marriage falls apart in the future, rich man is preferred to poor one due to better economical consequences.

    In a similar way, very soon fathers will be advising their sons, that marriage is not something they need to be involved, at all. Having a girlfriend - yes. Having children - yes. Marriage - no.

    To be precise, economic models show that, in the USA, if prostitution would be legal, it would be economically detrimental to a more affluent party to get into the marriage contract.

  48. You missed the point. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 2

    You missed the point. The point is that there is an enormous depth of dislike for what Seattle has become. Only a few of those commenting are being completely logical. If they were logical, they would move away from Seattle.

    Can you find other web sites and articles about people who dislike their city? I'd like to see them.

    Consider the U.S. metropolitan area centered on Portland, Oregon:

    Portland has become unlivable. There are traffic jams all day. The air is poisonous. Things About Portland That Suck

    Intel has been emitting fluoride for years without state knowledge, permit. Quote: "When Intel applied for D1X approval, the company considered its fluoride emissions insignificant and did not include those. It was only when the company applied for the new DEQ permit required by greenhouse gas regulations that it requested a 6.4-tons-per-year fluoride emission limit. " 6.4-tons-per-year!!!

    Oregon warns home gardeners, Portland leaders lash out at state pollution response. Quote: "Regulators have known for years that Portland has high levels of the heavy metal cadmium in the air, but didn't know until 2015 what the likely sources were." Another quote: "The department's own air monitoring found arsenic levels were 159 times higher than the state's safety goal in Southeast Portland and cadmium levels were 49 times higher."

    Portland pollution: How does it affect you? Quote: "Tests detected cadmium and arsenic near Bullseye Glass in Southeast Portland and Uroboros Glass in North Portland. Superheating the metals, which are used to add color to glass, can send small particles up smokestacks and into surrounding air." The next paragraph: "The state also found that another carcinogen, hexavalent chromium, was used by the two plants."

    Portland, Oregon is no longer a livable city in other ways. Portland city management is allowing the construction of large buildings with no parking! One story: New Portland apartment buildings with no parking have neighbors worried about congested streets.

    1. Re:You missed the point. by ITRambo · · Score: 1

      The article about fluoride emissions is short on information. What type of fluoride is it? It's not stated. Sodium fluoride is added to some toothpaste. What makes the fluoride reportedly emitted dangerous? Is it in the form of hydrogen fluoride gas? If so, that's what should have been reported. To me, it looks like a sensationalist piece written by an uneducated person. News designed to scare without any solid information is useless.

    2. Re: You missed the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That Portland is unlivable comes as a complete shock to myself and the many hundreds of thousands of other people who are content living here.

      IOW, you're full of shit.

    3. Re:You missed the point. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      n 2000, the Journal of the American Medical Association documented the fact that properly prescribed and properly taken prescription drugs kill some 106,000 people per year in the U.S. alone (see JAMA. 2000, Dr. Barbara Starfield, Is U.S. Health Really the Best in the World?).

      That's the equivalent of having 35 separate 9-11 attacks strike the U.S. every year, year-in and year-out, ad infinitum. Indeed, it's well over one million dead Americans every 10 years.

      Yet no one blinks an eye at this ongoing human carnage, except, of course, for the grieving families of the people being killed by Big Pharma's toxic drugs.

      251,000 MORE People
      Killed by Medical Errors

      Now, the British Medical Journal has documented the fact that an additional 251,000 lives per year in the U.S. are taken by medical errors.

      When you combine the deaths from prescription drugs in the U.S. with the deaths from medical errors in the U.S., that's a whopping 357,000 deaths per year, or three million five hundred and seventy thousand deaths every 10 years!

      As Dr. Marc Sircus confirmed in a recent article:

              "The British Medical Journal now reports that after heart disease and cancer, medical errors kill more Americans than anything else does, claiming a quarter of a million lives a year, according to a study by researchers at Johns Hopkins University.

              Add to this number over 106,000 that die from properly prescribed medicines and you can see how quickly we reach 3.5 million dead over the last decade.

              Medical error includes delivering the wrong drug, misreading a patient's chart, or operating on the wrong organ." A new study, published in the British Journal of Medicine, shows that some 251,000 Americans are killed each year by medical errors.

      "It boils down to people dying from the medical care they receive rather than the disease for which they are being treated," says Dr. Martin Makary, professor of surgery at the Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine.

      This, on top of the previous report published in the Journal of the American Medical Association demonstrating that Big Pharma's toxic prescription drugs kill some 106,000 Americans per year.

      That's a grand total of 357,000 medical deaths per year in the U.S. alone!

  49. Director of Worldwide Health by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Clearly the worldwide sexual health related issues were his favourite subject while working for Microsoft.

  50. Re:Did you know? by hyades1 · · Score: 1

    Without more than your unsupported assertion, why would any sensible person accept these charges as facts?

    --
    I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
  51. Switch gender by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Men being used as sex slaves to fuck women who want to pay. I think it would become a sport. Televised. Which "cock" gets the most? Tune in Tuesday at 9.

    I'd be one of the first contestants.

    And of course, the spying captcha thing is "erected".

  52. Re:The victims by unimacs · · Score: 2

    Women found breaking the law said it so it must be true...What would you do if an "organized crime boss" demanded something from you? This isn't Juarez, America has the rule of law

    Despite having the "rule of law", organized crime still exists in the US and manages to blackmail, bully, and coerce people into doing all kinds of things. But again if you read the article, you'll find that these are Asian crime bosses and presumably the prostitutes are brought here from Asia. Not hard to imagine that crossing their pimps could lead to severe consequences for the prostitutes themselves or for their family back home.

    I'm sure one reason they don't go to the authorities is one you just implied, - they're just whores, who is going to believe them? I'd bet their pimps drill that one into them.

  53. Re:The victims by Imrik · · Score: 1

    They're not from here, they don't realize they can go to the police for help.

  54. Charging the Buyers by JimSadler · · Score: 1

    Obviously this is a publicity grab for law enforcement. Why would you come down hard on the buyers and fail to do the same on the sellers? Funny how drug charges don't work that way at all. They murder the sellers and usually charge the buyers with minor crimes.

    1. Re:Charging the Buyers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The problem is that they used to mostly just charge the prostitute (which is sort of like the drugs in this transaction). Then they realized that wasn't useful because the women largely didn't have a choice in the matter, so they started charging the buyers instead.

      Of course, you'd think they'd really want to charge the pimps (like the drug sellers) or the traffickers (like the drug growers), and maybe they do, but not at that level. So these low-level prosecutors are stuck charging the buyers rather than the suppliers.

  55. Other cities by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Can you find other web sites and articles about people who dislike their city? I'd like to see them.

    Both New York City and San Francisco come to mind.... especially SF.

    Portland has become unlivable. There are traffic jams all day. The air is poisonous.

    Works for Los Angeles!

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
  56. Report give the names of the poisons Intel emits. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1

    "The article about fluoride emissions is short on information."

    These are the chemicals Intel emits, listed on page 28 of the report linked below: Vinyl acetate, Ethyl benzene, Xylenes (mixed), Sulfuric acid, Nitric acid, Fluorides, Hydrogen Fluoride, Perchloroethylene {Tetrachloroethene}, and Ethylene glycol monobutyl ether.

    The Portland metropolitan area doesn't have good news reporting. The Oregonian newspaper is poorly managed, in my opinion. The only Oregonian reporter for technology issues is Mike Rogoway. He apparently has almost no technical knowledge.

    This Oregonian article gives some information: Intel secures air quality permit, two years after fluoride gaffe derailed it. Intel emitting poisonous compounds was not a "gaffe", it was extremely destructive dishonesty.

    That article links to an Intel Health Risk Report (PDF file), but I don't see anything showing the amounts of the chemicals emitted.

    It seems to me that Intel has handled its business in an extremely destructive and self-destructive manner. Intel's plants should not be allowed to emit poisons.

    Apparently there is a continuing intention to avoid rather than resolve the many issues. Intel is by far the biggest employer in the area. Avoiding effective disclosure and avoiding actually fixing the emission problems seems to be helped by government incompetence and possibly government corruption.

  57. CTRL-f fredo - 0 results by Ian+A.+Shill · · Score: 1
    I'll just leave this here:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    --
    For hire.
  58. See? They WARNED us... by jeffb+(2.718) · · Score: 1

    They told us legalizing marijuana would lead to increased crime, and here it is!

    (In observance of Poe's Law, I probably should state explicitly here that I'm making fun of the people who believe this.)

  59. Distraction is avoidance. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1

    It's easy to distract attention from the main point. Cities can be unhealthy, much more unhealthy than is commonly discussed.

    Apparently the air quality in Portland, Oregon is far worse than the city or state governments are willing to investigate. The traffic is now jammed most of the day; 4 years ago, it was jammed during rush hours.

    What does "content" mean? I'm guessing that many Chinese Factory workers would say they are "content".

    1. Re: Distraction is avoidance. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I have no issues using any of the intrastate or interstate roads outside of rush hour. I've been all over the US and Portland has one of the most comprehensive and cheap metro systems in the country. Here's a hint: Pay the $5 day pass to go anywhere in the greater metro area for the day and wait the max. 15 minutes for a bus or train. They are actually clean. Faster cheaper cleaner. Posting from Powell and 122nd.

  60. OMG by KenHansen · · Score: 1

    Stop the presses! Rich executives hiring prostitutes? So,about those immigrant prostitutes - assuming Seattle is a 'Sanctuary City' why didn't they go to police and turn in their captors? I thought sanctuary cities would allow illegals protection under the law? Stricter border enforcement makes it harder to import sex slaves - open borders lead to increased human trafficking.

  61. Did you read the article? by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

    So they arrested the clients and let the webmaster unmolested?

    Did you actually read the article or just look at the pictures? The article makes it quite plain that the webmaster (Sigurd Zitars) was arrested..

  62. Amazon: An abusive company? by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 2

    More about Amazon: Inside Amazon's Warehouse

    Quoting: "On June 2, a warehouse employee contacted OSHA to report the heat index hit 102 degrees in the warehouse and 15 workers collapsed. The employee also complained that workers who had to go home due to heat symptoms received disciplinary points."

    Another quote: "When the heat index ranges from 100 to 114 degrees, Amazon 'typically' gives hourly breaks of at least five minutes and shifts heavier work to cooler times of the day, Forney said."

    "On July 25, a security guard at the Amazon warehouse called OSHA and said the temperature exceeded 110 degrees. The guard reported seeing two pregnant women taken to nurses and that Amazon would not open garage doors to help air circulation."

    "One employee said it's now like 'working in a convection oven while blow-drying your hair.' They said they received extra break time when it was hot, but production rates were not reduced.

    "Ambulances responded to multiple medical assistance calls at the Amazon warehouse during hot days in May. So Amazon paid Cetronia Ambulance Corps to have ambulances and paramedics stationed at its two adjacent warehouses during five days of excessive heat in June and July."

    "Another 15 people were transported from the Amazon warehouse to hospitals for further treatment, according to Cetronia, but none was in critical condition."

    Amazon's response seems to me to be sophisticated lying. The response avoided all the issues:

    ' "The safety and welfare of our employees is our No. 1 priority at Amazon, and as the general manager, I take that responsibility seriously," Mortimer said. "We go to great lengths to ensure a safe work environment, with activities that include free water, snacks, extra fans and cooled air during the summer. I am grateful to work with such a fantastic group of employees from our community, and we partner with them every day to make sure our facility is a great place to work." '

  63. L.A.: Traffic and pollution, bad-tasting water by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1

    "Works for Los Angeles!"

    I'm glad I no longer live in the L.A. area. (Orange County)

    1. Re:L.A.: Traffic and pollution, bad-tasting water by theArtificial · · Score: 1

      How long have you lived in Portland?

      --
      Man blir trött av att gå och göra ingenting.
  64. Re:The victims by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Read a little closer. These aren't women who chose to be prostitutes rather than being dental hygienists or auto mechanics. They were coerced or forced into prostitution to pay off debts to organized crime bosses. Debts that may have not have even been their own but of their family members. They were neither safe nor secure and it's doubtful they were allowed to keep much of the money.

    So, if a restaurant owner hires temporary foreign workers, forces them to work long hours, takes their passports, makes them rent a room in his boarding house at an exorbitant cost (so their paycheck on the books looks normal); the right thing for law enforcement to do is to charge the people eating at the restaurant??

  65. Just legalise Prostitution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just legalise Prostitution like the rest of the enlightened world, then there is no longer exploitation, gang control, blackmail and a whole host of other criminal activity just disappears. Prostitution has been legal here in New Zealand for several years and we have non of those problems, the biggest problem is complaints about brothels being setup in residential areas.

  66. Re:The victims by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Go to the police for help." Hilarious!

  67. Legalize it by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Legalize it

    1. Re:Legalize it by PPH · · Score: 1

      Legalize Microsoft?

      I think you are going a bit too far with this.

      --
      Have gnu, will travel.
  68. So prosecute restaurant critics ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Will now people writing restaurant reviews be prosecuted for "aiding human trafficking" ?

  69. Moved to clean air. by Futurepower(R) · · Score: 1

    Moved away from Portland after many years. The traffic there is slow all day, causing the pollution to be much higher. Portland city managers have been allowing developers to build large apartment buildings with NO parking. In many areas it is difficult to find a place to park.

  70. Microsoft is a criminal organization by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No surprise that one of its top executives has been revealed as such. All Microsoft employees knew exactly what they were getting into when they decided to join Microsoft.

  71. Tom Childers? Is That You? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Sounds like something Tom Childers might say.

  72. Re Prostitution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have asked this question many times and never really gotten a satisfactory answer:

    If a woman's right to abortion is based upon privacy and her right to do with her body as she pleases, what's the argument against a woman that chooses to use her body to have sex for money? I'm not necessarily a supporter of prostitution, but if it were legal, it could be regulated and taxed. Prostitutes might be eligible for health care, and most importantly, it would be harder for pimps to threaten them. My problem with the "no" crowd is that they don't offer much to say "yes" to. For the prostitute who has sex to pay for her drugs, making her drugs illegal means making them more expensive and potentially more out of her reach necessitating more prostitution. For the prostitutes who are paying off their debt to come to America, walling off our country from all but those who come from Western Europe (vwp look it up) will cause desperate people to do desperate things to get here.

    Imo, it's a waste of our taxpayer resources to go after men who pay for sex. It is a better use of our resources to address the desperate circumstances in our society that make a life of prostitution seem like a reasonable adaptation.

    1. Re:Re Prostitution by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      her right to do with her body as she pleases

      Because in this 'Christian' nation, women are still property.

  73. Like the war on drugs by trevc · · Score: 1

    The war on the sex trade is like the war on drugs - a pointless waste of money. Legalize prostitution.

  74. so... by Some_Llama · · Score: 1

    "Last January a Seattle newspaper reported that one alleged brothel owner "previously had made his living off illegal marijuana grows, but moved into prostitution when the drug was legalized.""

    cool so just legalize prostitution then?

  75. Just legalize it by thecatt · · Score: 1

    None of this would be a problem if prostitution was just legalized. There's no need for such puritanical laws to still exist.