Men Are Sabotaging The Online Reviews Of TV Shows Aimed At Women (fivethirtyeight.com)

FiveThirtyEight has an interesting article today which accuses men of sabotaging the online reviews of TV shows aimed at women. The publication cites an example of "Sex and the City", a show which apparently won plenty of awards and ran for many years on TV, getting hammered by males on IMDb. Compared to women, who amounted to 60% of the people who rated the show with an average of 8.1, men gave it a 5.8 rating. It's not an isolated case, FiveThirtyEight says, citing several other instances where the male audience has downvoted shows aimed at women audience. From the article: The shows with the largest proportion of male raters are mostly sports, video game web series, science fiction and cartoons. The programs with the highest proportion of female voters are -- at least the American ones -- mostly from The CW and Freeform, the new name of the network previously called ABC Family. This list is pretty hilarious. Beyond the top 25, shown in the table above, male-dominated shows of note include: "Blue Mountain State" (92 percent male), "Batman: Beyond" (91 percent), "Batman: The Animated Series" (90 percent), "The Shield" (90 percent), "Ballers" (90 percent), "Justice League" (90 percent), and "The League" (88 percent). "Star Trek: Enterprise" is the most male-heavy of the various official live-action Trek enterprises, while "Battlestar Galactica" still managed to grab 15 percent of its ratings from women, which is somewhat shocking. For women, other skewed programming includes "Private Practice" (71 percent female), "Gossip Girl" and "Gilmore Girls" (67 percent each), "Grey's Anatomy" (60 percent), "Scandal" (60 percent), and "One Tree Hill" (59 percent).

Comments

Strong enough for a man, made for a woman

[omnichad]

Just because someone's not your intended audience, doesn't mean a review from them isn't fair or valuable. If it was better TV, it might have favorable ratings across the board. And most, if not all TV programming is very pandery and not very quality.

Re:Strong enough for a man, made for a woman

[Fwipp]

Sure, as long as you define "universal appeal" as "things that appeal to men."

Re:Strong enough for a man, made for a woman

[ravenscar]

Probably because most men couldn't care less if their significant other watches "The Shield" or "Star Trek" with them. In fact, many would prefer to watch it alone. As such, fewer women are exposed to male targeted shows. On the other hand (and this is, for sure, just an anecdote) it seems like every straight guy in my office is forced to watch "The Bachelor" with their S.O. every week as part of their "quality time" together. Since they're exposed, it seems reasonable that they might also rate the show.

Re:Strong enough for a man, made for a woman

[tom229]

I think you're making wild conclusions with your data. How many women are forced to cuddle on the couch while her husband watches Southpark? I'd be willing to bet not many. I've spent countless hours of my life watching terrible shows like sex and the city to meet imposed requirements of "quality time", and I know I'm not alone. When you already have an idea in your head it's easy to find causes for it isn't it? There's no conspiracy. No one's out to sabotage women's television.

Re:Strong enough for a man, made for a woman

[tomhath]

Why ask for reviews, then question why men are reviewing women's shows? How would you expect to get the opinion of the audience if you exclude half the viewers?

The more interesting question is why more women don't review shows aimed at men.

An even more interesting question is why anyone would bother watching the crap that fills the gaps between commercials anyway?

Re: Strong enough for a man, made for a woman

[johnsmithperson123]

And if you get forced to watch it, you give it a poor review. QED.

Re:Strong enough for a man, made for a woman

[jeffmflanagan]

Men don't trash shows meant for women either. Why would we care that some shows are not targeted to us? This is something that reactionary, little-boys with issues do. There's a weird online misogyny movement that constantly freaks out when anything isn't made with them in mind. None of these nuts are men, though some are very old males who never matured into men.

Re:Strong enough for a man, made for a woman

[david_thornley]

TFS listed several shows that have a 90% male audience, and none that had a 90% female audience. I wouldn't expect anyone to RTFA, but I thought it was reasonable to RTFS.

Re:Strong enough for a man, made for a woman

[ceoyoyo]

Doesn't matter. Characterizing one demographic choosing to review a particular set of TV shows as "sabotage" is clickbait sensationalism at best. This is an opportunity for sites like IMDB to detect a gender based split and report it:

"'Sex and the City' received an overall 3.8 stars, but female reviewers rated it 4.7 stars."

Or you could get even more useful: "General Hospital received an overall 1.0 stars but the distribution of ratings is non-normal, suggesting that while most viewers thought it was a waste of airwaves, a small demographic really enjoys the program."

Re:Strong enough for a man, made for a woman

[BronsCon]

So, then, it's not that men are more likely to give a crappy review, it's that women (like men) don't review things they don't watch.

Re:Strong enough for a man, made for a woman

[murdocj]

Parent is rated "insightful"???

Does anyone really think enraged men are bothering to downrate "Sex and the City"? Seriously?

Re:Strong enough for a man, made for a woman

[iCEBaLM]

You know, the entire Gamergate movement was predicated on the notion that feminists had no business reviewing games that were geared towards men. "Let them make their own games" was the rallying cry.

You didn't understand gamergate. It started with the exposing of corrupt and biased favorable gaming reviews.

The message you're misstating is actually not that feminists had no business reviewing games, but they had no business trying to enforce their values on game developers as a whole. See the overblown Overwatch "scandal" about Tracer's victory pose.

Re: Strong enough for a man, made for a woman

[BronsCon]

Not really; a lot of men are forced (under penalty of no sex) to watch their wife's shows, while men don't play the same game. That means men get stuck watching crap they don't like while women do not. Men, then, vent by reviewing the crap they have to watch, hoping that their voices will be heard and the experience will improve for them. Women, not being forced into watching men's shows, don't do this.

And yes, if you are going to force me into something, I am going to throw my weight around to make the situation more favorable for me.

Fortunately, my wife and i enjoy the same shows, pretty much across the board, and respect each other enough to not force each other to watch what we don't like, so we don't have that issue. My wife is not most women, though, and I am not most men, so I'm not speaking from personal experience, but simply relaying experiences shared with me by my other married friends. And if you don't want to take my word for it, fine, don't; read the rest of the discussion on this topic for a couple hundred other examples.

Re:Strong enough for a man, made for a woman

[BCGlorfindel]

You know, the entire Gamergate movement was predicated on the notion that feminists had no business reviewing games that were geared towards men. "Let them make their own games" was the rallying cry.

The whole gamergate thing was predicated on an effort to stop the production of 'male oriented' games. Nobody really cares if reviews are poorly done, that's not exactly gonna be a new thing for entertainment media. The special affront for gamergate was nothing about reviews as you and the article claim, but instead
about SJW's trying to dictate what kind of games should be made.

You just have to look at the outpouring of rage from whiny-ass MRA manbabies regarding the re-boot of Ghostbusters with an all-female cast to see how this mechanism plays out. If it's targeted at men, then men believe they should be the ones to review. If it's targeted at women, then men believe they should be the ones the review. And god forbid a woman should offer an opinion because, "IT'S NOT MEANT FOR YOU". Hell, these embarrassing needledicks have been overwhelming the reviews of Ghostbuster and it hasn't even come out yet.

Fuck these losers. If they got out and met a few human girls in person, they might not be so skeevy that they have time to carpet bomb any show or movie that has women in it. Remember the outrage over the latest Star Wars? How the MRAs were going to boycott? They degrade all of masculinity with their incessant whining.

Sob, sob, other people have different opinions of games and movies than I do and they are expressing those opinions. Stop caring about what other people think and just watch what you enjoy, problem solved. You don't need to go enforcing things on others to get over this first world problem.

Re:Strong enough for a man, made for a woman

[iCEBaLM]

Actually, I think you don't understand Gamergate because it started with a jilted and angry ex-boyfriend's complaints about his game designer girlfriend's cheating ways. There was an accusation of sex traded for reviews, but there was never any evidence to support the accusation, not even superficially, since there was no such review.

Yep, absolutely no evidence at all.

In practice, that seems to be the same thing, in that most of the GameGaters that I've seen go ballistic over anyone saying anything even the slightest bit negative about their favourite games.

There are extremists in everything unfortunately. I personally don't give a shit how someone reviews a game, as long as it's factual and simply opinion. Trying to make an entire community conform to whiny, lying, bitches however is where I draw the line.

Lets not forget that Depression Quest was barely even a game.

Re:Strong enough for a man, made for a woman

[PaulRivers10]

The whole gamergate thing was predicated on an effort to stop the production of 'male oriented' games.

Nope. It was started by a man (a misogynist man, at that). A man started making a huge stink because he was dumped by his girlfriend, and accused her of sleeping with everyone to get good reviews for her woman-aimed games. The MRA misogynists all hopped on the band wagon, siding with the lying ex, and woman came to rally for the game designer who was slandered. Are you sure we are talking about the same gamergate?

That's funny, the Gamergate I remember is where a bunch of manipulative dominating feminists tried to tell gamers that game developers weren't supposed to be allowed to do anything in their games that feminists didn't approved of. They created a bunch of absurdly wrong videos, and started a whole group based on lying and manipulating. Gamergate in response was a guy accusing his ex-girlfriend who had clearly cheated on him and lied to him of sleeping with game reviewers for good reviews. Which got a lot of support from people tired of the feminist controlling dominating b.s., some of whom also went on to create their own lying manipulating b.s. in response against feminists. That's the Gamergate I remember, at best it was one lying manipulating group of feminists against a lying manipulating group of men - but those men only showed up in response to attacks by feminists, they didn't start it off.

Re: Strong enough for a man, made for a woman

[sexconker]

You don't need to stretch when the numbers already fit.

Complaint: Men are rating down "women's" shows!!!
Response: Men rate shows they don't like poorly, and rate shows they like highly. What's the problem?

Complaint: But men are rating down OUR shows!!!
Response: Men and women can watch and rate the same shows.

Complaint: But women aren't watching "men's" shows and rating them poorly!!!
Response: Maybe that's because they aren't watching them, and don't care to rate them.

Complaint: But men ARE watching "women's" shows and rating them poorly!
Response: You keep talking about "women's" shows, but you can't list any that have a 90% female viewership share to establish that they are "women's" shows. All the while you are comparing these shows, and the demographics of those who rate them, to your self-defined "men's" shows which DO have 90% male viewership.

Complaint: UR RLY STRETCHING!!!
Response: QQ

Suprise

[farble1670]

Men don't like shows focused at women. More news at 11.

Re:Suprise

[smelch]

Maybe it's because women make their men watch their TV shows with them, but if I'm going to watch batman I'm not going to drag the girlfriend in to it.

Re:Suprise

[lgw]

Misogyny is alive and well on the internet.

Without a single doubt. Now that "misogyny" has been clearly defined as "disagreeing with any woman on any topic", there will always be misogyny to feel good about bashing. For example, TFA: men disagree with women on the ratings for a show. Misogyny by definition.

Re:Suprise

[Archangel Michael]

TV show ratings now = Misogyny

Perhaps THAT is the problem going on here. Its like the crap my wife says when I watch MMA or Car Shows or whatever, and the derogatory comments she makes about them, but should I say something about sex in the city I'm a fucking pig* .

*Not really, making stuff up that I've seen in other couples do.

Re:Suprise

[im_thatoneguy]

Or "male shows" like Battlestar Galactica is objectively better television than Keeping Up With the Kardashians.

I think this just reveals how sexist pressures apparently are keep women from watching amazing television like BSG.

Sabotaging?

[Anonymous Coward]

What kind of SJW bullshit is this? Maybe men just have different taste in TV shows. I can't imagine too many men wanting to watch The Bachelorette, either. The low ratings are just a reflection that men don't like the show. It's not sabotage. Cut the SJW bullshit. Why is Slashdot so full of SJW nonsense lately?

Re:Sabotaging?

[queazocotal]

The article is not actually that unreasonable apart from the headline.
'Men are downvoting shows aimed at women' may be a more fair title.
To quote:
" But ratings taken as an aggregate obfuscate crucial detail. They can smooth over dramatic imbalances in demography that belie a thoroughly unscientific sample. They have the habit of lumping the divisive among the universally mediocre. And as long as they purport to underscore the true value of a work, they undermine people’s ability to find new and interesting material just because a subset of passionate and vociferous dudes on the internet somehow hold it in low regard."

This is not unreasonable.
Another example is complex software only usable by professionals (or very skilled amateurs). Votes from people coming to it who have no idea of the field are basically worthless.

Re:Sabotaging?

[ScentCone]

First off, anyone using the term "SJW" is completely full of shit.

Why? It perfectly, succinctly describes what it's all about. It's dead on.

Re:Sabotaging?

[ScentCone]

So you're suggesting that social justice is an undesirable thing? Or just that allowing oneself to be labeled as a crusader for it is unacceptable?

*sigh*

No. The point is that the people who carry on in this way are generally over-wrought, pretentious idiots that don't understand what the word "justice" actually means, but consider themselves to be passionate warriors for their nebulous cause because they tweet with some magic hashtags. They aren't "fighting" for anything, but they do get their feelings hurt for all the wrong reasons about all the wrong things.

Yes, "social justice" (as the term is used by its shrill priesthood, most of whom make careers out of getting paid to manufacture phony injustice that only they can solve through being paid to blog about it) IS an undesirable thing. Because it's not at all about justice, it's about faux grievances and misplaced senses of entitlement.

Maybe they just don't like the shows?

[grasshoppa]

I'm going to throw out a radical suggestion here....

Maybe men legitimately don't like shows that are aimed at women, and they're more vocal about it?

Is that wrong? Are men supposed to simply sit down and keep their opinions to themselves? What's the hope here?

Re: Maybe they just don't like the shows?

[Anonymous Coward]

When a boyfriend and girlfriend want to watch different things on TV, the girl wins out. Men get stuck watching girl shows. Women don't get stuck watching guy shows. As a result, men have the knowledge to rate girl shows poorly. Women don't see the guy shows, so they have no reason to rate them poorly. This isn't sabotage. Slashdot needs to cut the SJW bullshit.

Re:Maybe they just don't like the shows?

[rossz]

Are men supposed to simply sit down and keep their opinions to themselves?

That is exactly what the radical feminists are demanding.

Re:Maybe they just don't like the shows?

[Your.Master]

You didn't read the article.

The difference is that when men don't like shows that are aimed at women, they apparently rate the show, but when women don't like shows that are aimed at men, they don't rate the show. There are shows popular with men and unpopular with women, and vice-versa, and the latter get way more "wrong-gender" votes. No particular reason was proposed as to why this is. The call to action was to recognize that single-number rating systems obscure important details in general.

Re: Maybe they just don't like the shows?

[Anrego]

So much actual this.

And beyond that, when your GF does sit through one of "your shows" she's usually doing something else, whereas for whatever reason I feel guys are compelled to watch what's on the TV even if we hate it to our core.

There are certainly legit social issues relating to gender inequality, but I wish we could find a balance and accept that yes, there _are_ actually differences between how men and women generally behave and that may not actually be a bad thing.

Re:Maybe they just don't like the shows?

[jareth-0205]

It's junk food for the SJW agenda and anyone interested in benefiting from it. Men (the least likely to benefit from any modern social justice agenda) are acutely aware of this and develop appropriate opinions.

See, this worries the fuck out of me and is why I'll give time to this so-called agenda even though it riles me too - because since when have we become so fucking selfish that any other group trying to improve their lot immediately means we have to fight it? Maybe we should recognise imbalances (even if they are in our favour) and help to right them?

Re: Maybe they just don't like the shows?

[jammer170]

Great statement by someone who doesn't understand the majority of women. As with most things, women care a great deal about the social aspects of watching TV, discussing what is happening and what is going to happen and what just happened. If I pull out my iPad or laptop to watch something else (or as is common in my case, play video games), and I plug in earphones, she loses that aspect and it isn't as enjoyable for her.

In fact, I wonder if that is at least part of the cause of the lopsided ratings. Women might care less about the show and more about its capability to discuss it with others. Despite enjoying Sex in the City, she wasn't very enthused when I got her a copy of the show because I wasn't really interested in watching it with her. I tried watching the first episode with her, and found it rather hideously boring. The show is off the air, so none of the women she knows is going to be discussing it anymore. When it was originally on the air, lots of women (and I believe it was a hit among gay men as well - and before the outragists here start shouting, these are generalizations) were discussing it. It probably doesn't hold up as well now, and I be interested to see the plot of ratings over time.

Ultimately, it seems like this information is just a stereotypical conflation of correlation versus causation. There are gendered differences to the rating, so there is a leap to the unsubstantiated reason of "sabotage". The true results of this study should be, "Hey, I wonder why this is?"

Sabotaging?

[Anonymous Coward]

So, those shows are only for women, and men should not have an opinion of the shows? Really? Men don't seem to like them, but how is this sabotaging? What the fuck, really?

Oh please

[tom229]

So... men can't dislike shows aimed at women? A show like sex and the city paints a pretty shallow, incomplete, and unfortunate picture of both sexes, it just tries overly hard to "empower" women while doing so. It's bad reviews are greatly deserved. What I gather from the tone of the article is that any SJW agenda deserves nothing but praise. *eye roll* This mentality is out of control. My wife hates a lot of the sports and sci-fi stuff I watch and would probably give them a bad review too.

Re:Oh please

[geek]

A friend of mine posted something on Facebook today. I rarely look at Facebook and when I do I just glance but this caught my eye.

The average wedding in Europe is around 6,000 euros. The average wedding in the US is around 36,000$. The blurb was accompanied by a little video showing a British woman talk about how its a family event and about the commitment, all the important stuff. Then it cut to a spoiled American girl screaming "ITS MY FUCKING WEDDING" while holding onto her dress and throwing shit.

My response to her was "Too many princesses in the US and not enough women". Sex in the City embodied that to me. It was such a horrendous show that to this day when I hear a woman talk about how great it was I gag and throw up in my mouth a little. The women on that show were so shallow and lifeless I have a hard time understanding how it existed at all. Then I talk to some of the princesses this countries pumped out over the last 30 years and it all becomes clear.

Re:Oh please

[DRMShill]

The average wedding is not 36k. The source for that number was a survey in a high end bridal magazine which caters to the type of reader that would spend that much on a wedding.

RFTA - It has some good points:

[Registered Coward v2]

TFA brings up some good points:

1. There are significantly more men rater stain women rates, which means their results will skew ratings towards what men like to watch

   A poor rating does not mean it is bad TV nor does a high one mean it is good

   The rating in and off itself is pretty much useless, a better idea is to look at the data to get a clearer picture if a show might be of interest to you

IMDB could separate mens scores from women's; as well as show what shows were highly or poorly rated by the same people who rated a particular show. That would give you a better idea of the value of a rating in deciding if you might be interested in the show.

Go Figure...

[sycodon]

...a guy would hammer a show about 4 whiney women.

Re:Go Figure...

[ShanghaiBill]

...a guy would hammer a show about 4 whiney women.

Instead of "hammering" it, he should just realize he is not part of the target audience, and watch something else. I don't enjoy watching Teletubbies, but I don't give it a bad review because I am not a three year old.

Re:Go Figure...

[im_thatoneguy]

He should just realize he is not part of the target audience, and watch something else.

I have watched Sex in the City, I would not have watched Sex in the City by my own volition. I would give it a solid 6-7 rating.

My Fiancee does not watch Clone Wars, nor would I even suggest that she watch Clone Wars, because it's bad. I know it's bad. I complain about how bad it is. But I keep watching it. I would also give it a solid 6-7 rating. I'm sure she would give it a 1. But she doesn't watch it.

I think that's the difference. Guys watch mediocre or bad television with their female partners, female partners go do something else.

Put the ratings in a table

[RobinH]

There's a movie site called Cinemaclock. One of the things I like is that it shows the ratings in a table divided among gender and age ranges. Then I can look and see, if it was liked by men in my age range I'll probably enjoy it too.

Sabotage? Or just honest opinion?

[mark-t]

Wow... so instead of assuming that people have different tastes, blame the fact that apparently a lot of men don't seem to like some shows that happen to be popular with a lot of women happen on their gender.

Could this story be any more sexist?

This kind of tripe makes me sick. Just sick.

Men's interests might be more narrow

[Firethorn]

Recently I did a lot of reading on toy preferences for children. Monkey studies even got involved, as were efforts to no bias the child one way or another beforehand.

The outcome? Girls actually like a 50-50 split, on average, between 'girl' toys like dolls and 'boy' toys like model trucks. Boys are basically 100% involved in 'boy' toys.

Extend this to media like movies and TV shows. Thinking back, mom enjoyed the same movies the males in my family enjoyed. But she also enjoyed the 'girly' shows we didn't.

It could be that media that women's interests are wider, on average, or that an equivalent zone for men to the 'chick flic' hasn't been discovered. I don't know.