Slashdot Mirror
Russian Online Trolls Resist The Light
Rick Zeman writes: Since the beginning of the public Internet on Usenet and now following on comment boards worldwide, live the trolls, the online creatures dedicated to stirring up trouble with their versions of online flaming, fact-twisting, and overall being a menace to online society. Russia, by paying state-sponsored trolls, has elevated the troll to the level of professional propagandists spewing the party line. In neighboring Finland, a country again precariously balanced between Europe and the Russian bear, Finnish journalist Jessikka Aro's investigations have opened a new front in the (dis)information war (Warning: source may be paywalled) where "'There are so many layers of fakery you get lost,' said Ms. Aro, who was awarded the Finnish Grand Prize for Journalism in March," reports the NYT. All because "A member of the European Union with an 830-mile-long border with Russia, Finland has stayed outside the United States-led military alliance but, unnerved by Russian military actions in Ukraine and its saber-rattling in the Baltic Sea, has expanded cooperation with NATO and debated whether to apply for full membership." The NYT article explores many of the actions that the Russian propagandists use to keep Finland out of NATO, and some of the more indefensible ones directed personally at Aro. She says, "They get inside your head, and you start thinking: If I do this, what will the trolls do next?"
Yep, I think you're right. Those should be called shills. But if they're worth their salt (be they working for Putin or Monsanto), they do troll when it's appropriate.
Sometimes it's about pushing bluntly your customer's POV, but most of the time it'll be about derailing a conversation with some stupid hot-button issue (Aaah! systemd!) or even representing the opposing POV in such a dumb manner that the more intelligent counterarguments get drowned in the noise. And here trolling is a very handy tool.
This behavoir (by Kremlin, or by companies) is really abject, because it poisons human relations and puts a burden on our communications, which are pretty difficult as they are.
They're pissing in the commons, ant thus in our mouths.
Euros are not much better informed (am one), and Americans are no better than Russians.
We (europe) need to cut the shit with both of you and build independent European defences.
I view both as equal threats to European countries. I'm further from Russia than our suomi buddies though.
Our American friends have their peculiarities but I'll pick the USA to be my ally over the Russians any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Just about the only thing that would make me rethink that attitude is if Trump gains the presidency and even then only if he actually does what the is currently saying he will do (which I doubt). That's how much worse Russia is than the US.
Project Bluebird, MKUltra, etc.
Tuskegee Airmen
Gulf War Syndrome
Tracking via Cell Phones
TSA body scanners
Secret Courts, laws, watch lists, no fly lists
Deflected asteroid attack on Buenos Aires
Roswell
Kennedy assassination
AIDS
Aurora Project
Bay of Pigs
Iran Contra
Robot Al Gore
Recording all cell phone meta data
Monitoring all cell phone calls
Recording every packet crossing over any pipe an American ISP owns
Distributing crack to blacks
9/11
Operation Gunrunner / Fast and Furious
How there's only ever one person working at the post office
Watergate
The DMV
Steve Irwin Assassination
Philadelphia Experiment
Operation Northwood
Project Grey Box
Clipper chips / Palladium
Terminator 3
Operation Rainfall
Pan Am 103
Assassination of Lady Diana
Fluoride
Reptilian overlords
Chem trails
The red menace / McCarthyism
Breaking Bad Season 6
Global warming
Phantom time
etc.
etc.
Considering how many "crackpot" conspiracy theories turn out to be true, and often far worse than theorized, paranoia should be the default state.
Agreed.
However, at the same time this rhetoric itself is at the core of the Russian propaganda: essentially the message is 'since the US does it, we can too"
As a Finn I've engaged in a lot of discussions with both Russians and my fellow countrymen about the situation in Russia ever since Crimea, and this comes up quite frequently from the pro-Russian side. If you try to talk about the annexation of Crimea and how it's worrysome they throw 'Iraq'-card in your face. Nevermind that we had nothing to do with Iraq, and that despite the fuck-up and unjustified nature of the war in Iraq and for all their incompetence, the US still did not add Iraq as a new state.
From this, it's not a long way to the idea presented by some in the Kremlin that countries simply cannot want to be in NATO for the sake of their own security. Like, if an unallied country at the border of Russia looks at the recent actions of Russia towards other unallied border states (first Georgia in 2008, then later in Ukraine/Crimea) and concludes that it's safer by allying itself with someone other than Russia, then it obviously must because of Washington and the corporate illuminati controlling the popular opinion and seeking to threaten Russia, despite the fact that the risen interest in military co-operation is a direct result of their own actions. This is of course intentional. All authoritarian regimes need enemies, and to Russia it's 'western values' (ie. gays and sexual deviance primarily) from within and NATO from without. To help achieve this they treat the whole of Europe as a unified block ('the west') that's nothing but an extension of the US when it suits them, basically telling us Finns (and Ukrainians) here that we cannot have an opinion of our own, unless we agree with them.
They want to keep and even increase the tension because that's a convenient trick to distract people from the failings of their domestic policies and the rather dismal state of their economy, pretty much fascism 101 stuff. And the fact that in some sense the US is doing the same with the war on terror, war on drugs etc does not make it okay, or justifiable.
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
I don't understand the desire to bash the US that seems so rampant on Slashdot. Equating the US to Russia is quite foolish.
We have our problems, sure, but they're not really a threat to you. I keep hearing that it would be a big problem if Trump is elected President. That's pretty unlikely, for one. And if he were, Congress would stand in the way of him doing substantial damage. Trump might accidentally succeed in something both Bush and Obama failed at, which is getting Congress to work together.
Europeans aren't inherently better than the US. You guys have countries seriously considering leaving the EU. You guys have some pretty serious financial issues, far worse than our debt crisis in Puerto Rico. You guys are dealing with the threat of terror and are quickly going down the road toward mass surveillance. The UK is already there and is probably worse than the US. You guys have plenty of racism directed toward refugees; why do you think the word "untermenschen" appears in Slashdot comments with some regularity? It sure isn't a slur that's used in the US.
Our government pretty clearly isn't paying people to troll the internet. The government doesn't control the US media, not even close. The wealthy and powerful almost completely control our media. It's not a great situation, but it's a far cry from anything going on in Russia.
With respect to defenses, I don't trust Europe to be more militarily responsible than the US. When you have power, there's a temptation to use it, and often it's not used for good. From time to time, we have to relearn the lessons of war as a new generation begins influencing our decisions, one who hasn't seen what war can do. We fought in WWI, WWII, and Vietnam, but many of us had forgotten how bad war can be. We've relearned that lesson from our experiences in Afghanistan and Iraq. Americans don't want more wars, because we've learned that lesson once again. These problems are not inherent to Americans; Europeans are not inherently better than Americans.
We could tell Europe to get lost and return to the Monroe Doctrine of two centuries ago. We're better off not doing that, though.
in what way, exactly, is the US a "massive threat to us (Euro)"?
Is any European country at risk of invasion by the US, for example? Ask the Baltic countries about the threat of invasion by Russia. That is entirely possible.
Does the US control strategic gas supplies for heating Europe? Does it use that to exert political leverage in Europe? Again, no, that would be Russia.
This notion of "a plague on both your houses" is just lazy thinking.
Communism — first implemented in and spread with support of Russia — has killed 94 million people in the 20th century. What have the Americans ever done to you to even approach — much less equal — that?
I invite you to compare Western Germany, dominated by Americans, with Eastern Germany... Are you still certain, the threats are equal? Or are you too young to even know, what I'm talking about?
Stalin is — thanks in part to the propaganda campaign described in TFA — once again a Russia's hero. A "strong leader"... The moment it "rose from its knees" (Russian propaganda's favorite expression), the country went on to attack neighbors. And not just to right wrongs — real or perceived — but to annex territory and expand borders. With overwhelming support from the citizenry — who forgive their own squalor to their rulers in exchange for military victories. Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine — all European countries — have already become victims.
America's last land-acquisition was Hawaii... Are you still sure, the threats are equal?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Last I lived in Europe, I must have missed all the armed squads of Americans forcing poor Europeans into McDonalds, making the locals use Google, and enforcing Facebook edicts. Yep, ordinary Americans living in central Texas really give a rodent's rectum where Europeans eat, browse and share stupid photos.
If we're going back in history as far as WWII, then we're going back as far as Stalin. I doubt all the deaths attributable to all US presidents since WWII add up to the numbers slaughtered by Stalin. The insistence on seeing the US as dramatically more evil than every other state is patently absurd.