Slashdot Mirror
Russian Online Trolls Resist The Light
Rick Zeman writes: Since the beginning of the public Internet on Usenet and now following on comment boards worldwide, live the trolls, the online creatures dedicated to stirring up trouble with their versions of online flaming, fact-twisting, and overall being a menace to online society. Russia, by paying state-sponsored trolls, has elevated the troll to the level of professional propagandists spewing the party line. In neighboring Finland, a country again precariously balanced between Europe and the Russian bear, Finnish journalist Jessikka Aro's investigations have opened a new front in the (dis)information war (Warning: source may be paywalled) where "'There are so many layers of fakery you get lost,' said Ms. Aro, who was awarded the Finnish Grand Prize for Journalism in March," reports the NYT. All because "A member of the European Union with an 830-mile-long border with Russia, Finland has stayed outside the United States-led military alliance but, unnerved by Russian military actions in Ukraine and its saber-rattling in the Baltic Sea, has expanded cooperation with NATO and debated whether to apply for full membership." The NYT article explores many of the actions that the Russian propagandists use to keep Finland out of NATO, and some of the more indefensible ones directed personally at Aro. She says, "They get inside your head, and you start thinking: If I do this, what will the trolls do next?"
The meaning of troll seems to have been lost. Just because you don't like them, doesn't mean they are trolls.
The latest trend being ANYONE WHO DISAGREES WITH ME IS A TROLL! TROOOOOOOOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
Troll recursion.
Table-ized A.I.
Of course Russia would ry and influence public opinion. Finland is a direct neighbour. And they're certainly not the only ones. China does it, Europe^Wthe EU does it, even the USoA does it. Sometimes overtly, sometimes less so. Sometimes subtle, sometimes less so. Sometimes even naked threats, innit, mr. Cameron?
So yeah, nothing surprising here. If you're honest you don't try and spin it like a scandal story, like you're a SJW or something. Because if you do that you're really lying to yourself: This isn't extraordinary. It is much more useful to scetch the scene matter-of-factly, so that everyone knows what is happening and how.
That is the point. In a word where you cannot control the population by controlling the information supply anymore, you just pollute the well so much that it becomes unusable for anyone, except for those having the knowledge, time and resources to filter out the shit. ...) has really only one option, and that is to decide who he trusts based on completely unrelated, and possibly also incorrect, data.
On any non-trivial subject that is not average Joe. He (make that 'We'
The US elections are another prime example of this.
Euros are not much better informed (am one), and Americans are no better than Russians.
We (europe) need to cut the shit with both of you and build independent European defences.
I view both as equal threats to European countries. I'm further from Russia than our suomi buddies though.
Our American friends have their peculiarities but I'll pick the USA to be my ally over the Russians any day of the week and twice on Sundays. Just about the only thing that would make me rethink that attitude is if Trump gains the presidency and even then only if he actually does what the is currently saying he will do (which I doubt). That's how much worse Russia is than the US.
Regular american citizens are still indoctrinated from cold war propaganda, they don't need to pay anyone to "troll", they do it naturally through their ignorance.
Trolls are by definition people who enjoy causing strife by broaching subjects that cause friction. They're not political propagandists. Trolling isn't a good tool of propaganda because heart of trolling isn't creating falsehood but uncovering unpleasant truth. And such truth seeking does never serve a particular political need. So in my mind calling potential Kremlin propagandists trolls implies that they bring up unpleasant truth. While generally actual propagandists work by highlighting truths that further political goals while downplaying unpleasant truths that doesn't. So basically accusing propagandists in trolling is tantamount to complaining that there's too much truth in propaganda..
Could you point to some of the propaganda that we're "still indoctrinated" by, or are you a Russian troll?
Just another day in Paradise
Project Bluebird, MKUltra, etc.
Tuskegee Airmen
Gulf War Syndrome
Tracking via Cell Phones
TSA body scanners
Secret Courts, laws, watch lists, no fly lists
Deflected asteroid attack on Buenos Aires
Roswell
Kennedy assassination
AIDS
Aurora Project
Bay of Pigs
Iran Contra
Robot Al Gore
Recording all cell phone meta data
Monitoring all cell phone calls
Recording every packet crossing over any pipe an American ISP owns
Distributing crack to blacks
9/11
Operation Gunrunner / Fast and Furious
How there's only ever one person working at the post office
Watergate
The DMV
Steve Irwin Assassination
Philadelphia Experiment
Operation Northwood
Project Grey Box
Clipper chips / Palladium
Terminator 3
Operation Rainfall
Pan Am 103
Assassination of Lady Diana
Fluoride
Reptilian overlords
Chem trails
The red menace / McCarthyism
Breaking Bad Season 6
Global warming
Phantom time
etc.
etc.
Considering how many "crackpot" conspiracy theories turn out to be true, and often far worse than theorized, paranoia should be the default state.
Pay attention, fuckwit.
Not a big scale? The Pentagon propaganda budget is a quarter of the NASA budget FFS
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
I don't understand the desire to bash the US that seems so rampant on Slashdot. Equating the US to Russia is quite foolish.
We have our problems, sure, but they're not really a threat to you. I keep hearing that it would be a big problem if Trump is elected President. That's pretty unlikely, for one. And if he were, Congress would stand in the way of him doing substantial damage. Trump might accidentally succeed in something both Bush and Obama failed at, which is getting Congress to work together.
Europeans aren't inherently better than the US. You guys have countries seriously considering leaving the EU. You guys have some pretty serious financial issues, far worse than our debt crisis in Puerto Rico. You guys are dealing with the threat of terror and are quickly going down the road toward mass surveillance. The UK is already there and is probably worse than the US. You guys have plenty of racism directed toward refugees; why do you think the word "untermenschen" appears in Slashdot comments with some regularity? It sure isn't a slur that's used in the US.
Our government pretty clearly isn't paying people to troll the internet. The government doesn't control the US media, not even close. The wealthy and powerful almost completely control our media. It's not a great situation, but it's a far cry from anything going on in Russia.
With respect to defenses, I don't trust Europe to be more militarily responsible than the US. When you have power, there's a temptation to use it, and often it's not used for good. From time to time, we have to relearn the lessons of war as a new generation begins influencing our decisions, one who hasn't seen what war can do. We fought in WWI, WWII, and Vietnam, but many of us had forgotten how bad war can be. We've relearned that lesson from our experiences in Afghanistan and Iraq. Americans don't want more wars, because we've learned that lesson once again. These problems are not inherent to Americans; Europeans are not inherently better than Americans.
We could tell Europe to get lost and return to the Monroe Doctrine of two centuries ago. We're better off not doing that, though.
That "anti-disinfo" project lools like EU trolling, just with a slightly different name. The difference between Russia and the ridiculously corrupt Bruxelles institutions is that the latter don't even deny their own trolling, they just call it "counter narrative" or something like that: http://www.politico.eu/article...
However, luckily it doesn't seem to be very effective, given the EU's sinking popularity among its own (unwilling) citizens: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/bus...
Oh look. I caught a Russian troll.
He's not that likely to be elected.
People said that about George W. Bush.
Yes - I do not believe the US has a large scale internet forum troll brigade.
We just have a fuckton of morons that are willing to do it for free.
"Action without philosophy is a lethal weapon; philosophy without action is worthless."
This list reads like a really crap version of "We Didn't Start the Fire" by Billy Joel.
I knew I needed to stop reading Slashdot and finish my PhD when I started to miss articles by Bennett Haselton.
Found the Russian troll.
As has been repeatedly stated, but you Russian trolls repeatedly ignore because it exposes your lies, the U.S. does not have an army of paid trolls spewing nonsense on social media like Russia does. We know Russia pays people, its citizens, to put out lies because one woman sued the Russian government over the practice.
But as always from Russian trolls there will be an excuse or an attempt at deflecting the truth just like when it is pointed out Russia has lost over 2,000 soldiers during its invasion of Ukraine, that Russian soldiers "on vacation" keep getting captured in Ukraine, that Russia funds the terrorists in Eastern Ukraine, that the takeover of Crimea has cost Russia untold amounts of money because supporting a peninsula isn't as easy as Putin said it would be, that Russia has stolen businesses from the people in Crimea and given them over to oligarchs aligned with Putin, that the Tartars of Crimea are forbidden from speaking their own language or having their own schools, that Tartar newspapers have been shut down because they don't post what Putin tells them to do.
All this, and much, much more, is the truth but Russian trolls always find an excuse to deny the truth. Because that is what they are paid to do.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
Probably you are russian troll also. Whatever americans have done, it's nothing compared to millions killed, raped, jailed and deported by russians.
https://www.wired.com/2009/02/...
Even faux news has written about that:
http://www.foxnews.com/politic...
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
in what way, exactly, is the US a "massive threat to us (Euro)"?
Is any European country at risk of invasion by the US, for example? Ask the Baltic countries about the threat of invasion by Russia. That is entirely possible.
Does the US control strategic gas supplies for heating Europe? Does it use that to exert political leverage in Europe? Again, no, that would be Russia.
This notion of "a plague on both your houses" is just lazy thinking.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
Could you point to some of the propaganda that we're "still indoctrinated" by [...]?
Sure - one of the biggest examples is the pervasive (and perverse) idea that the United States is a 'Christian' nation. During the Cold War, Eisenhower injected references to God in paper currency and our own Pledge of Allegiance, specifically to "unite" the country against the much-overstated Communist 'threat'. This has resulted in several generations of state and federal laws that illegally reflect 'Christian' doctrine, and several generations of people who support it and believe that's the only way it should be.
Only recently has society been able to start loosening that grip and begin the path to becoming the nation we were intended to be.
[DISCLAIMER: This post is a work of satire and should not be misconstrued as a holy text upon which to base a religion.]
An American here. Also studied American and World History on a college level and as a hobby. I also find Russian history fascinating.
Russia is very dysfunctional. On a totally different level than the rest of Europe, half of Asia, and the West. It's a miracle they haven't started WWIII yet.
While I think Trump would make an awful president, I don't think he lacks intelligence. He is able to articulate an opinion that resonates with a significant part of the population and gets them to vote on emotion rather than intellect. Obama did the same with his message of hope, change, and transparency, and voters mindlessly ate it up, he was even nominated for a Nobel Peace Prize before he was in office and won it without any accomplishments. Emotion can cloud even smart people's judgement. You need a majority of the population to get elected, half the people are dumber then the average person, and the average person is not too bright. To appeal to the dumb masses you need to do it based on emotion as they don't care to hear about some boring plan to fix something, they want to have a tingle run up their leg when their candidate speaks, not fall asleep when their candidate talks about tax reform.
Knowledge = Power
P= W/t
t=Money
Money = Work/Knowledge so the less you know the more you make
Communism — first implemented in and spread with support of Russia — has killed 94 million people in the 20th century. What have the Americans ever done to you to even approach — much less equal — that?
I invite you to compare Western Germany, dominated by Americans, with Eastern Germany... Are you still certain, the threats are equal? Or are you too young to even know, what I'm talking about?
Stalin is — thanks in part to the propaganda campaign described in TFA — once again a Russia's hero. A "strong leader"... The moment it "rose from its knees" (Russian propaganda's favorite expression), the country went on to attack neighbors. And not just to right wrongs — real or perceived — but to annex territory and expand borders. With overwhelming support from the citizenry — who forgive their own squalor to their rulers in exchange for military victories. Moldova, Georgia, Ukraine — all European countries — have already become victims.
America's last land-acquisition was Hawaii... Are you still sure, the threats are equal?
In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
Polls mean pretty much nothing until a month or so before the actual election. They rarely reflect reality and often show contradictory results.
People said that about George W. Bush.
Nobody said that about GWB. He was ahead in the polls from the start, had a solid record as governor of Texas, and he ran as a center-right "compassionate conservative" moderate. For the first year, he also governed as a center-right moderate. It wasn't until his 2002 "axis-of-evil" speech that his presidency went off the rails.
This list reads like a really crap version of "We Didn't Start the Fire" by Billy Joel.
You win the internet today.
I nominate rick zeman as faggot shill of the year
Spasibo. An insult from a troll is a compliment indeed!
Last I lived in Europe, I must have missed all the armed squads of Americans forcing poor Europeans into McDonalds, making the locals use Google, and enforcing Facebook edicts. Yep, ordinary Americans living in central Texas really give a rodent's rectum where Europeans eat, browse and share stupid photos.
I wish I could vote you up! I work in Europe a lot, and frankly, Europeans seem to like Kentucky Fried Chicken a hell of a lot more than I do! If you don't want it there, then stop using it, and it will go out of business in your country...
My not responding to your flame is in no way indicative of my submission to your statement, it just means I don't have t
If we're going back in history as far as WWII, then we're going back as far as Stalin. I doubt all the deaths attributable to all US presidents since WWII add up to the numbers slaughtered by Stalin. The insistence on seeing the US as dramatically more evil than every other state is patently absurd.
There's a good, not malicious, reason why people on Slashdot are anti-Russia and anti-China. Russia is run by a kleptocrat thug who poisons dissidents on the streets of London (round the corner from my frigging office, so I remain quite indignant). China is run by an autocrat who is tightening power and clamping down on all dissent. Both states routinely forbid the mass of their citizenry from doing things that those of us in the West take for granted. The restrictions on freedom of speech, of belief, of religious practice, of sexual identity and behaviour, etc, are orders of magnitude greater than anything we in the West have to contemplate. There is no Great Firewall of the US. The one in China is all too real. This stuff matters, and ought not to be downplayed.
I'm a citizen of a country that made the tragic mistake to be part of the EU, hopefully not forever, and I see the EU itself as a threat to the sovereignty of my own homeland.
I'm going to guess you're British, I know I am. English before that, though I now reside in Wales. I have also resided elsewhere(s) around to world, at various times in my life. Any (international) agreement we enter into is, in a sense, a reaction to a 'threat' to our sovereignty. Once you accept that there are other individuals / tribes / nations / associations of nations you can enter into a conversation with them. There's nothing wrong with you or me as an individual being a part of any of those units on the 'scale of nations' as you seem to perceive it. [Of course I might be wrong about your slant, I'm just deducing from what (I think) you intimated in your post. ...
The EU is not a nation, it's an association of nations, which could take a number of 'political' forms, certainly its 3 parlimentary structures are a little confusing at first glance. The question is whether we are better off not being an active internal particpant (and donor / recipient) of this association, at all, or better off being an active part of it now, and, now having the power (however little that may be, merely by virtue of being a member) to change the organisation, asking can we change it, and can we change it for the better of all within it?
I had been teetering on the fence for some while, sometimes leaning one way, other-times swaying the other or back again.
Now I'm 'certain. It is almost certainly better (for me, for you, for everyone else within the union, and potentially for everyone outside it too) to be (remain) in!*
*IMO, YMMV...