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Sundar Pichai Says Google Will Be 'More Opinionated' About Nexus Design (theverge.com)

Posted by msmash on from the dazzling-handsets,-stock-Android dept.

Jacob Kastrenakes, reporting for The Verge: Google intends to take more control over the Nexus line going forward. During an interview at the Code Conference today, Google CEO Sundar Pichai said that his company would "be more opinionated about the design of the phones," particularly where Google sees a need to "push the devices forward." That sounds like he could be referring to Google's desire to highlight new technologies with its Nexus devices. [...] But what Pichai focused on during the interview was software. We're used to getting stock Android on Nexus phones, but Pichai says that could change. "You'll see us hopefully add more features on top of Android on Nexus phones," he said. "There's a lot of software innovation to be had."

90 of 115 comments (clear)

  1. Odd... by xlsior · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The whole POINT of Nexus has always been to provide -stock- Android experience, without shovelware and other 'enhancements'. Seems an odd departure.

    1. Re:Odd... by Dog-Cow · · Score: 2, Insightful

      No. The whole POINT [sic] of the Nexus line has been to provide a platform that Google controls. Now Google is going to exert more control.

    2. Re:Odd... by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      It's also what worries me. I am still using an LG G2 and I have been more-or-less planning on buying the next Nexus-phone that comes out if it has OIS and it having stock Android is the one, major reason why I was planning on going with a Nexus in the first place -- if Google is going to start adding shovelware/"enhancements" to Nexuses it'll immediately make them a lot less compelling a purchase for me.

    3. Re:Odd... by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      Alas no. The point of Nexus has always been to show people what Google intends Android to be. To the best of my knowledge, there's never been a Nexus that's just AOSP + Google Play Store, it's always contained, at minimum, the entire Google Apps suite and preferred customizations from Google.

      This news suggests they're taking more control over the hardware, not just the operating system.

      I... can't tell if this news is a good thing or a bad thing. I had a Galaxy Nexus for a couple of years, and virtually everything I hated about it most were things Google was either known to have advocated or something their execs handwaved away as non-issues (battery life in particular was terrible.)

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    4. Re:Odd... by Merk42 · · Score: 1

      I had a Galaxy Nexus for a couple of years, and virtually everything I hated about it most were things Google was either known to have advocated or something their execs handwaved away as non-issues (battery life in particular was terrible.)

      That's a really unfortunate phone on which to base your opinion of Nexus.

    5. Re:Odd... by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      As long as it's "near stock".

      I've loved moto X 2014. The addition of an improved camera app, motion controls (both accelerameter and proximity) were nice additions beyond stock that I liked.

      As long as they keep it simple, I'm OK.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    6. Re:Odd... by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      THANK YOU. Every time I say I think it's a complete PoS I get modded down. I've always assumed nobody else gives a rat's behind about usability and battery lives...

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    7. Re:Odd... by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      I'm not aware of any "preferred customizations" in Android on Nexus devices beyond the included Google apps. Are there any in particular you were referring to? What is stock Android is pretty much entirely determined by Google anyway, and they've been pretty good about keeping their improvements pushed out to AOSP.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    8. Re:Odd... by CimmerianX · · Score: 1

      THen what's your alternative.... Every company wants 'their' software on the phone that you can't remove. How else will they get your data and usage.... er um I mean how else will they add value.

      With my nexus, I rooted it and use no google accounts. I run my own email server, I contact sync to my own server, I host my calendar on my own server, I side load any applications I need without using google playstore. I'm sure they are drooling at the mouth to get some unremovable software on that phone to harvest info that I am now able to deny them.

    9. Re:Odd... by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      The Google apps are, for the most part, the customizations, and one difference between Google Android and AOSP is that apps that come with the latter are often hidden or unavailable in Google Android. Music, for example, hasn't been available in Google Android for quite some time, with Google Play Music replacing it.

      I've read, but not seen, that On Nexus devices Mail and Browser have been removed from relatively recent builds, with Gmail and Inbox replacing the former, Chrome the latter. I would assume, if it hasn't been done already, that the SMS "Messaging" app will go the same way soon, and likewise the Google keyboard has presumably already replaced the AOSP keyboard.

      AOSP and Google Android are definitely different, even if you add the minimum Google Play stuff to the former. One can argue perhaps that this is necessary given Google's apparent decision to stop updating the built-in apps (although I'd like the old Music app back, Play Music is just awful), but the differences are there.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    10. Re: Odd... by jsh1972 · · Score: 1

      Get a Moto, they're very close to stock and the few enhancements are actually useful.

    11. Re:Odd... by Rob+Y. · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, if say and LG G4 could be made to take full advantage of it's OIS-equipped camera under stock Android, that'd be really nice. So if Google's talking about making it easier for OEM's to limit their customizations to things that really take advantage of their hardware innovations and stop trying to out-flashy the competition's UI, you'd end up with an Android that's more 'standard' (i.e. that customers could switch to painlessly), gets regular security updates (and even OS updates), but can still compete where it counts. That sounds like a good deal for everyone except maybe Samsung - and Microsoft if they're looking to get into the Android device business...

      I'd have a G4 today - and be running Cyanogenmod on it - if it were possible to get full use out of the camera in that configuration. As it is, I'm still on a Nexus 4 - but with Marshmallow c/o CM 13. Runs pretty well, but ready for a hardware upgrade. And I'd like T-Mobile wifi calling to work. So, yeah, 3 1/2 years is longer than the current 'standard' refresh cycle OEM's count on, but maybe if they didn't spend so much on useless software, they could still make money from the likes of me. Offload costly OS software development / maintenance to Google, and focus your software efforts where it counts - offloading distribution of your special sauce to the Play Store.

      --
      Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    12. Re:Odd... by Rob+Y. · · Score: 2

      I kind of doubt they're overly concerned about a few individuals like you that go to such lengths to avoid using their stuff. Remember that they only want your info in order to target ads at you - that you actually click on. I assume you're also using an ad-blocker, so you're kind of beside the point to Google and the like.

      --
      Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    13. Re: Odd... by Gaygirlie · · Score: 1

      Doesn't look like they have OIS.

    14. Re:Odd... by Rob+Y. · · Score: 1

      To be fair, all android phones from the Galaxy Nexus era had lousy battery life. Only recently has the hardware - and the OS - gotten to the point that it's possible to build an Android phone with good battery life. The Galaxy Nexus had other problems - like a way too short OS upgrade path. Mine also stopped charging altogether at one point...

      --
      Posted from my Android phone. Oh, I can change this? There, that's better...
    15. Re:Odd... by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      They did, but the GN seemed to be particularly bad. The T-Mobile Slide 3G, which was my prior device, could survive 10-14 hours between charges. The GN, with the stock battery, couldn't last seven! And Google execs who were asked about the appalling battery life were glib about it, saying that they just carried a spare battery in their pocket...

      Yeah, the lack of upgrades was bad. The versions of Android that came out for it were never that stable either. I didn't realize how important the lack of hardware buttons were with usability until I bought my current Android device. 16Gb wasn't enough, in practice, for a device with no SD card slot and which insisted on keeping two copies of every non-trivial built-in app (original, plus update.)

      And the thing was: it was widely praised. Most reviews at the time said it was a high end phone, and the equal or near equal of the iPhone, supposedly the phone to be as good as.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  2. Be more opinionated about your damn software by Tough+Love · · Score: 4, Interesting

    How about fixing that stunningly lame cut and paste half effort? How about letting phone screen rotate all four directions and don't lock the home screen to vertical? How about doing a million little fit and finish things to make Android better instead of butting your head into the business of phone builders?

    --
    When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    1. Re:Be more opinionated about your damn software by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Err no thanks. What you see as "fit and finish" many other people see as worthless features which add nothing. Rotate the home screen, a screen which has preset fixed locations for objects of various dimensions? No thanks. Rotating in all directions? Quite frankly if you need to hold your phone upside down then something on the phone is misdesigned. The rotations are fixed by design to give you a consistent button location, none of this is that button volume up or down when I press the "top" whatever top means in your scenario.

      I see very little fit and finish issues with Android. I see some bug fixes, smoothness improvements, and new features that could be added, but for the most part the underlying system is not Android's current problem.

    2. Re:Be more opinionated about your damn software by cdrudge · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Rotating in all directions? Quite frankly if you need to hold your phone upside down then something on the phone is misdesigned.

      At the end of the day, my phone sometimes doesn't have quite enough juice to use just before I fall asleep. So I need to plug it in to use it while lying down in bed. The charge port is on the bottom of the phone so I either need to have the cord stabbing me in the chest holding the phone right side up, or if I flip the phone 180 degrees, the home screen is upside down.

      So, in this situation, what is misdesigned?

    3. Re:Be more opinionated about your damn software by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      Why should I need to right side up my phone when I pick it up?

      I usually don't need the volume, and I seem to be able to figure it out when the phone is sideways (which does swap), the control buttons are software now, so that doesn't matter.

      My comfortable hold puts my pinky over the charging port, so it's a total nuisance when charging.

      Also, there's already a rotate lock feature, doesn't seem like the option for four direction rotation would make anybody's life worse, and some people's better, and it wouldn't even be a difficult one to implement (been in cyanogen since forever, and I suspect already an internal option).

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    4. Re:Be more opinionated about your damn software by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Battery life or a location of the charging port for what is an ordinary use case.

    5. Re:Be more opinionated about your damn software by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      They don't lock the home screen to portrait mode anymore. It took them forever, but that complaint is no longer valid. As for allowing full rotation, they do that where it is appropriate, i.e. on tablets. Phones have a natural top and bottom and there is no sense confusing the user by allowing them to use the phone upside down.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    6. Re:Be more opinionated about your damn software by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      As for allowing full rotation, they do that where it is appropriate, i.e. on tablets. Phones have a natural top and bottom and there is no sense confusing the user by allowing them to use the phone upside down.

      Brain damaged thinking. My phone has no natural top and bottom, and even if it did I do not see how being able to use it "upside down" is a drawback. Single word description of this design attitude: "patronizing".

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    7. Re:Be more opinionated about your damn software by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      Really, your phone doesn't have a natural top and bottom? So how does that work? Is there both a speaker and microphone on both ends so that you can talk on the phone in any orientation? Sounds pretty unique, I've never heard of a device with that feature.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    8. Re:Be more opinionated about your damn software by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      1) I don't always use my phone for talking
      2) The mic and speakers work quite well from either end, in fact speakerphone works fine too

      You're just dredging the bottom of the barrel for arguments that random restrictions make sense for everybody. Speak for yourself.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    9. Re:Be more opinionated about your damn software by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      1) No one does, but it's obviously a use case that needs to be taken into account.
      2) My phone doesn't work well as a phone when it's upside down. I'm guessing this is a use case that they have no interest in taking into account.

      Install the app "Set Rotation" and be done with it. There's no reason to expect Android to meet every obscure need you have right out of the box.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    10. Re:Be more opinionated about your damn software by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      Correction: "Set Orientation" is the app name, not "Set Rotation".

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    11. Re:Be more opinionated about your damn software by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      This isn't about android meeting my needs. This is about android not imposing pointless, ill-considered restrictions. Sheesh. At one time Google was known as a place where smart people gathered. No longer, now it is well on the way to establishing a reputation as a home for dull, patronizing people.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    12. Re:Be more opinionated about your damn software by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      There's no way you actually made that comment unaware of how patronizing and condescending you sound, right?

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    13. Re:Be more opinionated about your damn software by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Ahem. In what way is your comment not patronizing and condescending? You are the one trying to impose your view of how I should use my device.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    14. Re:Be more opinionated about your damn software by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      I was not whining about how patronizing others are, so I have no need to defend my own supposed patronizing attitude.

      Anyway, I'm not trying to impose anything on you. As I already pointed out there is a trivial solution to your problem by installing a very simple app. I know that apps works because I have used it in the past for the same use case you described. I understand the desire in some situations to be able to use your phone in the upside down orientation, it's just silly to expect Google to support that as it would confuse more people than it would help.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    15. Re:Be more opinionated about your damn software by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      I was not whining about how patronizing others are

      Yes you were. Mirror. Self.

      Google employee much?

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  3. Feature list by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 5, Interesting

    1) Replaceable battery
    2) Lifetime AOSP support
    3) No Binary Blobs
    4) FM Radio
    5) MicroSD
    6) Wireless charging
    7) Ara

    1. Re:Feature list by aurasdoom · · Score: 1

      1) Why? There are already powerbanks
      2) Not a possibility. After a while the hardware just can't take it anymore
      3) Not in their control
      4) Meh
      5) Meh
      6) I'll give you that
      7) It's coming

    2. Re:Feature list by Gaygirlie · · Score: 2

      1) Why? There are already powerbanks

      So you can easily replace it if/when it goes bad?

    3. Re:Feature list by jareth-0205 · · Score: 1

      I am hopeful for Ara... personally I will fill the thing with batteries and call it a day. But yes soon you may be able to have you list... Well, except 2 & 3.

    4. Re:Feature list by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      8) A pony.

      No seriously some of those things on that list interest very few nerds, let alone members of the general public.

    5. Re:Feature list by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Oh, I forgot, I'm supposed to throw $500 in the landfill every couple of years.

    6. Re:Feature list by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      (1) I have a 3 year old Nexus 4 that needs charging twice a day. Otherwise a perfectly good phone. Deciding whether to buy one of the replacement battery kits off ebay to crack open the case to extend life by another 18 months.
      (2) Cyanogenmod says otherwise. No reason not to officially support Marshmallow on Nexus 4 or 'N' on Nexus 5 via AOSP except Google expect you to buy a new phone every 2 years.
      (3) Of course it is. They decide which hardware their OEM partner puts in a Nexus device. If necessary they could pay Linux kernel developers to write drivers.
      4) Radio is still popular in my area, maybe not yours.

    7. Re:Feature list by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      Yes that seems to be the message.

      Nevermind that I have 2 laptops in the house that are 7+ years old that run beautifully with a new battery installed in each.

    8. Re:Feature list by Merk42 · · Score: 1

      What? I (don't) want $thing, therefore everyone feels the same way too!

    9. Re:Feature list by eam · · Score: 2

      While I agree not everything should last forever, it should still be the goal, at least until the things we get are perfectly recyclable.

      I just purchased a Nexus 6p. I was upgrading from an HTC One M7 GPE. I did not want to get a new phone, but the battery life of my HTC one had dropped to the point where it was barely usable. It went from lasting all day without a charge to needing multiple charges per day. The HTC One is the first phone I've owned that I had to retire because it failed. My wife had one that also died "early".

      I don't have a problem if you decide you need or want a new phone & abandon a working phone to move on. However, I absolutely HATE being forced off a phone that does everything I need just because the manufacturer wants to be able to sell me another one.

      Planned obsolescence should never be permitted for anything that can't be completely recycled. Accidental obsolescence should be good enough.

    10. Re:Feature list by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      1) Replaceable battery
      Yes.
      2) Lifetime AOSP support
      Unreasonable. As CPUs get faster and standard memory gets larger you will run out of performance and space for the new OS over time. You can not run Windows XP on an old 286 much less Windows 7,8,or 10. Lifetime is a long time, I would like to see at least 5 years.
      3) No Binary Blobs
      Not practical. Too many hardware providers do not want to make sure that they can legally open source their drivers. They may be using a tool kit that does may not be open sourced. In the end it offers a lot of risk and no real benefit.
      4) FM Radio
      Nice but not critical. I would rather see a weather radio included but FM would not hurt.
      5) MicroSD
      Yes.
      6) Wireless charging
      Yes.
      7) Ara
      Not yet. Over the years I have seen many attempts at "modular" devices and they have never lived up to the hype. Make that an extra device and keep the Nexus mainstream for now.

      Of course Google could have just kept Motorola. I have a MotoX and I love it. It is well made and has been kept up to date with Android. The Moto G is a great low cost device as well. It is a shame that Google sold them off.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    11. Re:Feature list by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      The phones I've had with quick charge don't last 2 years on the battery.

      Still, I'll take the slimness and the pain of a warranty replace over changeable battery.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    12. Re:Feature list by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      Lifetime is a long time, I would like to see at least 5 years.

      Okay, a slight exaggeration then. But there's little technical reason a 3 year old quad core phone with 2GB RAM and supporting OGLES 3 shouldn't receive OS updates, but is now stuck on 5.1.1.

    13. Re:Feature list by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      Not anymore, the tech is stabilizing.

      But yeah, for a while, it was like the 90s with computers.

      Now you can get a decent phone for $150, bonus, SD card and available battery.

      Since you're not committed to brand new tech ($150 gets two year old lower high end, or higher medium end) you shouldn't ever spend $500.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    14. Re:Feature list by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      "Okay, a slight exaggeration then."
      What are you a freaking hamster? 3 years or even 5 years is very very very far from a "lifetime".
      I have a 10 year old PC that works just fine but I would not expect a smartphone to last 10 years because if the lack of expandability. It is not easy to add ram to an SOC or a new GPU.
      The real problem is when the SOC makers decide to not support that device any longer. That is what happened to my Nexus 7 and 10.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    15. Re:Feature list by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

      I've bought 3 Galaxy S4 phones (1 for me, 2 for other members of my household) in the past year, even though these phones are already a couple years old. They work great. The carrier updated them to Android 5.0.1, and if I get some other project out of the way I'll try installing CyanogenMod on one to see how that works out. For ~$100, I don't see how you can get a better deal on a phone: they're well-built, have great screens, excellent Otterbox cases available, and still pretty speedy.

      But of course, at this age the batteries are going out. But these phones have easily replaced batteries, with $8 OEM replacements on Ebay, so that was easily fixed.

      AFAIC, not having an easily-replaced battery is a deal-breaker. There is no way I'm going to spend hundreds of dollars on something that has to be thrown away in 2 years because they didn't want to make limited-lifetime parts replaceable.

    16. Re:Feature list by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      A human lifetime, no. The lifetime of a phone being maximum 5-10 years of wear and tear before it's thrown away with a broken screen or faulty USB port.

      'when the SOC makers decide to not support that device any longer' - exactly my point about reducing or eliminating binary blobs. e.g. by supporting the reverse engineering efforts of freedreno and nouveau for Snapdragon and Tegra hardware or providing resources to the replicant project. If Google were truly serious about the GPL underpinnings of the Linux kernel, that is.

    17. Re:Feature list by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      Actually my phone cost more than my most recent laptop purchase.

    18. Re:Feature list by LWATCDR · · Score: 1

      "exactly my point about reducing or eliminating binary blobs. e.g. by supporting the reverse engineering efforts of freedreno and nouveau for Snapdragon and Tegra hardware"
      Just not going to happen. It makes no real business sense. Google does not want to write the actual driver code for SOCs that is for the SOC makers to do.

      --
      See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
    19. Re:Feature list by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Don't put words in other people's mouths, I would love all of those features but I live in this place called reality.

      I challenge you this. Tomorrow wake up and walk down the street in your city. Stop every single person in the street with an Android phone and ask them if they feel AOSP is an important feature they want in their smartphone. You can stop after 100 people. If you find more than 1 person who says yes then send me your paypal address and I'll buy you a Marsbar.

      Hell if it's 5% of the people who want something it's barely enough to justify including a feature, let alone the 0.01% of the people who even know what several of those are let alone want it. Look no further than the last article on FM radios in phones where even most Slashdot posters didn't give a crap.

    20. Re:Feature list by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      FM radio is location dependant, but here it is awesome thanks.
      No dataplan needed, quality often better than the internet streaming from same stations, works with the dumbphone too.
      Checking out another stations takes a few milliseconds too.

    21. Re:Feature list by q4Fry · · Score: 1

      Okay, a slight exaggeration then. But there's little technical reason a 3 year old quad core phone with 2GB RAM and supporting OGLES 3 shouldn't receive OS updates, but is now stuck on 5.1.1.

      Especially considering that the Nexus 5X has the same amount of RAM... and an Android N Preview image.

    22. Re:Feature list by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      It's technically possible to replace a broken screen, depending on design. That's also why broken shit should be shipped to Africa (contrary to what propaganda from the Basel network says)

    23. Re:Feature list by Merk42 · · Score: 1

      You... do you know that I was agreeing with you, but was jokingly pretending to be the sort of people (often found here) that don't understand that their needs/wants are the same as everyone else's... right?

    24. Re:Feature list by Christophotron · · Score: 1

      1) Why? There are already powerbanks

      - So you can restore the phone to 100% charge without having to plug it in for a couple of hours. It is annoying to use a phone while it is plugged in. Even worse if you are trying to use it while it is tethered to one of those "power banks". Carry a couple of extra batteries with you and replace them as needed, and you never have to plug in. It's convenient.

      - So you can easily replace the battery when it is old and will no longer hold a charge. Batteries are cheap. New phones are expensive.

      - So you can remove the battery to be sure the phone is turned OFF completely. Is the entire phone powered off, or only the screen? Did the phone freeze up with a black screen while the CPU is cpntinues to run? You can hold the power button and wait, or you could remove the voltage source and have immediate certainty. This is useful if you are paranoid about someone spying on you. It's even more useful if you have dropped your phone in water. If you remove the battery immediately and dry your phone out, it usually still works afterwards. Not possible with a permanently-attached battery.

      I have taken full advantage of all these things, including dropping my phone in water and then restoring it. Removable battery is a very important feature and it is the main reason I now use an LG phone instead of Samsung or Google Nexus.

  4. Re: Could we stop using "Going forward"? by Threni · · Score: 5, Funny

    I'll reach out to them and see what they say.

  5. God help us all by melted · · Score: 2

    Looking at the inconsistent mess that is Google software, good help us all, then.

  6. Will they stop going backwards? by ukoda · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Prior to the Nexus 6P I had brought each new model since the Nexus One but I have stuck with the Nexus 6 as the 6P was a step backwards. I see no need for a fingerprint reader, what real world advantage does it offer? From what I see it weakens security by opening a new attack vector. On the other hand I see QI charging as one of the best things to happen to phones in recent years, no more mucking around vs risking a flat battery. Removing QI from the 6P was a deal breaker for me.

    The linked article does feel like a fluff piece, lacking anything worth remembering.

    1. Re:Will they stop going backwards? by laddiebuck · · Score: 1

      Have you used a device with a fingerprint reader for any amount of time? I have - the iPhone 6S+ and the Note 4. With the Note 4 it kind of sucks because it's unreliable. With the iPhone, it's a game changer. I can unlock my phone so much more quickly and easily that Apple just basically removed a barrier to how often I pull my phone out to check something. For instance, I can reliably unlock it at a red light without having to glance at the screen, and open Shazam. The difference was so glaring that I basically stopped using the Note 4.

    2. Re:Will they stop going backwards? by jareth-0205 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It *is* an extra attack vector though, since there is now two ways to get into your phone (password and finger) rather than one. Super-convenient, admittedly, but a security gap nonetheless. There's a legal distinction that might cause an issue too - you can't be compelled to give over a password, but information *about* you like your fingerprint is fair game so you can be compelled to provide that.

      In some ways fingerprints are terrible security tokens - you leave your token recorded on any surface you touch!

    3. Re:Will they stop going backwards? by sdxxx · · Score: 1

      The Nexus 6P is kind of odd. Even though the spec says it's the same length as the 6, it actually feels longer and is even less comfortable in my pocket. Maybe because it doesn't taper like the 6, or maybe because it is 1mm longer but rounds down to the same length.

      That said, the fingerprint reader is a mixed bag. It certainly doesn't categorically improve security. However, keep in mind that the screen lock and the boot process have the same passphrase. Once you only have to type your password every two days, it means you can pick a very long passphrase with enough entropy that people will be unable to reboot and brute-force your phone's encryption *even* if you've unlocked the bootloader. So that means as long as you don't root your phone (or as long as you have a PIN on root), then it will be hard for an attacker to extract any secrets protected by the operating system (such as your Google Authenticator secrets).

      Another advantage of the fingerprint reader is if you *don't* want security. For example, suppose you don't put a screen lock on your phone, but you want to use Android pay. Currently you can't do that. But if you add the fingerprint lock, it's basically like you don't have a lock on your phone, but you can use Android pay and any other features that might require a lock. (E.g., some employers require installation of MDM software that requires screen locks before you can access networks, email, etc.)

      The other advantage of the 6p over the 6 is the burst-mode in the camera, which is kind of nice. Also the 6p comes with 128GB, while the 6 tops out at 64GB, and of course the the 6p has a 64-bit processor while the 6 is the last of the 32-bit nexuses. Also, the 6p will support daydream when that comes out, though for now I actually find the 6 fits better in a google cardboard 2.0 viewer.

      Having owned the 5, 6, 6p, and 5x, I would say that the 5 was my favorite, being comfortable in the pocket and sporting a super bright screen that's easy to read even in bright sunlight. I'd still be using the 5 except for the fact that it lacks T-mobile band 12 support and WiFi calling. I'm now using the 5x as my primary phone, even though, like the 5, it only has 32GB of storage. I miss the size of the 5, and really don't care about front-facing speakers, so think it's kind of extra stupid that the 5x has a bigger form factor to accommodate what looks like stereo front-facing speakers but is actually a single mono speaker and an identical looking microphone. And while I didn't used to have a screen lock, I now have one since I can bypass it with the fingerprint sensor.

    4. Re:Will they stop going backwards? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      From what I see it weakens security by opening a new attack vector.

      No less secure than removing passwords and pin-codes altogether because they are so much of a pain to type in compared to just holding the home button for a second.

      A scenario affecting people around the world.

      I have a password requirement on my device but no fingerprint reader. If you find my phone the passcode is 0000.

    5. Re:Will they stop going backwards? by Xenx · · Score: 1

      They're more security theater than security. It only protects against the incidental. My bigger gripe is I cannot use fingerprint security for any apps, unless I use it to lock my phone.

    6. Re:Will they stop going backwards? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I was ready to order one too until I found out about the lack of Qi charging. I'll probably pick one up when they are cheap, just before the new model is announced. Sadly I think Google has given up on wireless charging, and most manufacturers seem to be copying the Apple inspired wanky metal case because fanboy journalists said plastic felt "cheap". That really is style over functionality.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:Will they stop going backwards? by Nemyst · · Score: 1

      There exists technology to read blood vessel patterns under the skin instead of the fingerprint itself. I hope we see that showing up in phones, because while it's also uniquely identifying, it's much more difficult to copy and obtain.

    8. Re:Will they stop going backwards? by Mr_Silver · · Score: 1

      On the other hand I see QI charging as one of the best things to happen to phones in recent years, no more mucking around vs risking a flat battery. Removing QI from the 6P was a deal breaker for me.

      As a counter-point, I think wireless charging (as it currently stands today) is a completely meh feature.

      It has plenty of potential, but right now you're paying ten times more than a reversible cable - for pretty much the same limitations and a slower charging time.

      This article explains my meh'ness better than I could.

      --
      Avantslash - View Slashdot cleanly on your mobile phone.
    9. Re:Will they stop going backwards? by AvitarX · · Score: 1

      My car Bluetooth is a trusted device,

      I've simply stopped locking my phone where it's secure (home, car, work).

      I'm not knocking the fingerprint, but where it's really needed I think it's obsolete. What I really wish Android had was a boot password (for encryption) and a separate lock.

      So I could conveniently get my phone unlocked, but remote reboot, or reboot to make it secured.

      --
      Wow, sent an e-mail as suggested when clicking on "use classic" banner, and got a fast response that addressed my msg
    10. Re:Will they stop going backwards? by asavage · · Score: 1

      The heat from wireless charging also can deteriorate the battery quite a bit unless the battery isn't near the charging point. Heat in general really decreases battery life and heat while charging is much worse.

    11. Re:Will they stop going backwards? by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      Sure, but the alternative to wireless charging is super-quick charging over the wire which also generates a lot of heat.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    12. Re:Will they stop going backwards? by drunkbot · · Score: 1

      If a fake fingerprint scanned is not perfectly made (by an adversary or some state organization), the system could just fail back to the password prompt. Fingerprint scanner protection could also be mixed with the security feature recently announced that would analyze the user's actions and compare it with the typical owner's behaviour. If mismatch is found the system would require password input. http://www.androidauthority.co...

  7. Re:Could we stop using "Going forward"? by dwillden · · Score: 1

    But then how would we know that the company hasn't perfected time travel and intends to implement a new policy going backwards?

    --
    I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
  8. Have at least three models by Geeky · · Score: 1

    The 5X is the current budget model and the 6P is the premium one, which is fine. But not everyone wants a phablet. Some of us want a high end phone in a smaller form factor - high end in both design and features. I think there's room for a third model in the line up - a 5P - that has pretty much the same spec as the 6P but smaller.

    Samsung got that right with the S6 and built on it with the S7 - offering choices in size without skimping on specs for the smaller models (and reintroducing the SD slot). Trouble is, Samsung are one of the worst offenders for bloatware and imposing a non-standard interface, as well as being hopelessly slow at issuing updates.

    S7 level of hardware with stock Nexus software would have me changing my phone, otherwise I'll probably sit this one out.

    --
    Sigs are so 1990s. No way would I be seen dead with one.
    1. Re:Have at least three models by silas_moeckel · · Score: 1

      Would love a 5p, I dont want a phablet. I do want more CPU umph and can we get back qi charging :)

      --
      No sir I dont like it.
    2. Re:Have at least three models by Hodr · · Score: 1

      QI charging is the reason I still have my Nexus 5. I really wish we were offered basically the same phone with a better battery and a better camera.

  9. "Highlight new features"? by mrsam · · Score: 2

    How did removing QI charging become a "new feature"?

  10. Wireless charging is a pain by zerofoo · · Score: 1

    I have a Nexus 6, Nexus 6P and a Nexus 5X. The 6P is, by far, the best phone I have ever owned. I only switch to the 5X during summer since the 6P is pocketly challenged.

    Wireless charging sounds like a great idea until you have to live with it. Having to perfectly line up the phone with the charging base is an exercise in frustration - even more so with the Nexus 6's curved back. It sucks to have your kids bump the phone off the charger and then come back to a phone with a dead battery.

    The fingerprint thing is very cool. Much easier than entering a password or PIN. The only real problem with it is that imprint isn't supported by many 3rd party apps. It would be awesome to authenticate in every app with a touch of a finger.

    I loved my Nexus 6, but you should seriously check out the 6P - it's a fabulous phone.

    1. Re:Wireless charging is a pain by amRadioHed · · Score: 1

      I've been living with wireless charging on my N5, and I absolutely love it! Aligning the phone when putting it down isn't that big of a deal, and is probably even easier if you don't buy a super cheap charger like I did.

      --
      We hope your rules and wisdom choke you / Now we are one in everlasting peace
    2. Re:Wireless charging is a pain by ukoda · · Score: 1

      The key to QI charging is to buy decent multi-coil chargers, like the Tylt Vu, for your most common charging locations. They charge reliably regardless of alignment. I use them beside the bed and on my office desk. I have of a few cheap chargers scattered around the house but you do have to place your phone on those ones just right.

  11. Please fix current devices by kbg · · Score: 1

    No I don't want any new crap, I just want the previous crap to work now and work better. There should be more focus on fixing bugs and not removing features already there.

  12. innovation to be KEPT by cloud.pt · · Score: 1

    "We're used to getting stock Android on Nexus phones, but Pichai says that could change. ...There's a lot of software innovation to be had."

    There's a lot of innovation to be had and kept by Google apparently. The beauty of shipping the Nexus line with stock Android is that we can count on 100% the features to be available to other OEMs on the AOSP, key initials OS (open source, (and/or sans the payment of royalties to use associated features). That great time they decided to put the always on "Ok Google" only on the Nexus line and the (then Google's) Moto X, and relegating everyone else to restricted use in the Google app. Wanting to customize ROMs with Nexus-only features, or even customizing the Google Apps package shipped on those devices is not only showing the middle finger to manufacturers but also telling your users something in the ways of: "you will only get this feature with Google quality in a Nexus' software".

    1. Re: innovation to be KEPT by jsh1972 · · Score: 1

      My LG g5 works with OK Google with the screen off just fine.

    2. Re: innovation to be KEPT by cloud.pt · · Score: 1

      Until it doesn't for whatever reason. Case in point: My OnePlus One had it, then it changed into "OK Snappdragon" for royalty issues, then it stopped having it for technical reasons we never knew. G5 users might be more lucky in the long run, but what I said still stands: you won't have it with Google's QA like everything else AOSP.

  13. I hope this isn't the beginning of the end by Hevel-Varik · · Score: 1

    For me Nexus was owner friendly way towards unlock and flash a custom rom. they provide all the vendor binaries for download, and rooting is a click or two away.

    I don't even install gapps because I'm googled out, frankly.

    I've always suspected this nexus was too good to be true for much longer because since what's in it for them besides street cred. Yeah enhancements, I get it, but the moment they start getting 'more opinionated' this devolution, I fear, is simply a matter of time.

  14. Re: Could we stop using "Going forward"? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Funny

    I appreciate your stewardship of this matter.

  15. This sounds dangerous by HideyoshiJP · · Score: 1

    I wonder if this means they're going to do stupid shit like Apple and remove the headphone jack.

  16. Re: Could we stop using "Going forward"? by q4Fry · · Score: 1

    I'll jump on the call with you.

  17. Re: Could we stop using "Going forward"? by karnal · · Score: 1

    I'd prefer to talk about this offline.

    --
    Karnal
  18. Re:Could we stop using "Going forward"? by u19925 · · Score: 1

    Going forward, I will not use "Going forward" in sentences. Also, going forward, I will not post such silly stuff.