Slashdot Mirror


IT Layoffs At Insurance Firm Are A 'Never-Ending Funeral' (computerworld.com)

dcblogs quotes a report from Computerworld: The IT layoffs at MassMutual Financial Group will happen over a period of many months, and it's going to be painful for employees. Employees say they are training overseas workers via web conferencing sessions. There are contractors in the office as well, some of whom may be working on temporary H-1B visas. Employees say they notice more foreign workers in the hallways. Approximately 100 employees are affected. The employees are angry but can't show it. A loss of composure, anything other than quiet acquiescence, means risking two weeks of severance pay for each year on the job. But maintaining composure is hard to do. "I know a few people that are probably close to a breakdown," said one IT employee. [A second IT employee described the emotional impact of the layoffs on employees in this way: "It's like a never-ending funeral."] Intel also confirmed major layoffs in April, which will affect some 12,000 employees or 11 percent of its total workforce.

21 of 420 comments (clear)

  1. The most disgusting part.. by subk · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ..Is that the company's sales are up 15% from 2015, and "represents the 10th consecutive year of record results".

    Greedy bastards, plain and simple.

    --
    Now, if you'll excuse me, I have backups to corrupt.
    1. Re:The most disgusting part.. by DiSKiLLeR · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Pretty much this.

      I'm in favour of making H-1B have am minimum $120-$150k salary.

      So it can only be used for skilled labour.

      --
      You can tell how powerful someone is by the magnitude of the crime they can commit and be able to get away with.
    2. Re:The most disgusting part.. by dgatwood · · Score: 5, Insightful

      <sarcasm>But, but, but... regulations are bad. We should let the market decide....</sarcasm>

      Yeah, this falls under the category of C*Os being crooks and lying on their H1B applications. That should result in jail time for everyone involved even tangentially in the decision. Fraud is a felony.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    3. Re:The most disgusting part.. by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 4, Insightful

      "But how to fix it? Make it illegal to outsource offshore? Or even outsource in-shore?"

      Eliminate the whole H-1B visa peonage category. If you want to come to the US to work, come as a regular immigrant. Let there be just one category of immigration, starting with getting a permanent resident visa. This benefits you as an immigrant, because it gives you same rights everyone else has, including being able to complain without being shipped back by your overseer, and puts you on the same basis as other workers in your area.

    4. Re:The most disgusting part.. by Harlequin80 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm not familiar with the exact rules around h1-b visas but Australia has a visa called the 457 which allows an employer to bring someone into the country in order to perform a role that they were unable to source someone for locally. The process is not an easy one to go through and the documentation that you have to provide to the department of immigration is significant. This was a visa that I utilised to bring people into the country to work for me, so I know how hard those visas are to get.

      The process starts with the company being vetted by Immi (http://www.border.gov.au/) which takes about 6 months, the end of which you are given a maximum allocation of 457s you are allowed to have. I was given 3. Once that is completed you go through the process of submitting the person that you want to employ along with supporting evidence of the searching you have done for a local person, the training and development you have given your staff to show you are trying to develop those skills, and a huge amount of information showing that the person you want to bring in will be paid the same as what Australians working in that role are being paid. In my case I had others working in the same role so I was able to put them forward as direct comparisons along with a cross sample of adverts by others companies looking for the same people with their salaries.

      The assessment process for the applications would take about 4 weeks. Once someone started I had responsibility to cover any medical costs that they would incur and should they decide to return to the country of origin or I let them go I was responsible for full relocating them home. In addition because they already had a 457 visa they could transfer that, relatively easily, to another employer that was pre qualified. So during my time employing people on 457s I did lose one after 2 years to a different company.

      Now for how to control for abuse. In Australia you are audited by IMMI at random intervals where you have to prove that you are maintaining the requirements of the visa. This includes that the person remains being paid at parity to a domestic worker, that you aren't using the "I will send you home unless you work harder" as a stick and a couple of other conditions. If you are found in breach of ANY of those you lose your qualified status and as a result lose ALL your 457s in one go and can't hire any others for 10 years. Leaving out the cost of relocating multiple people in one go you are going to lose multiple critical staff in one go and you will find it very hard to replace them.

      If you follow these rules there is no incentive to use outside 457 labour, in fact you're better off not. So the only reason you will is if you genuinely can't find the person you need. Currently in Australia there are around 85,000 people working on 457 visas (I'm only counting the principals not their dependants who also have a right to work) out of a workforce of 12 million.

    5. Re:The most disgusting part.. by undefinedreference · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Interesting idea that I could get behind... I'd say 2x prevailing wages for the skillset/title and a minimum of 2x average household income would be sufficient to make it unpalatable to use an H-1B for anything short of someone you legitimately cannot find or train. It'd also drive local wages up for anything in demand because they could save money by hiring local vs. hiring someone on a visa. It'd create fierce competition among the best and brightest all over the world to get in on the program because it'd give them instant high salaries, increase local salaries to what the market would actually bear for the skills, draw more people into unskilled work they consider below them (because they could live on the now-increased incomes), etc. It'd also kill a lot of crufty companies that aren't actively profitable in their space to make way for ones that will be. Everyone would win except MBAs trying to goose quarterly statements.

    6. Re:The most disgusting part.. by forty-2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This will continue to happen until it is a dangerous practice. Dangerous on a personal level. It continues to amaze and disappoint me that there aren't more (any?) stories of high ranking executives and officers being found mysteriously disemboweled.
      "Gee wiz, I really would like to outsource this entire department to shitfuckastan, and find the carrot juuuuust big enough to keep the staff here to train their replacement, but I sure am worried about my entire family being slowly murdered and eaten in front of me when I get home"
      I know that's not actually how the world works, but a boy can dream.

      --
      never drink kool-aid from a big vat
  2. Re:Time for a paradigm shift by robocord · · Score: 4, Interesting

    IT, however bad it is, is a bed of roses compared to driving a truck.

    http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2016/05/truck-stop/481926/

  3. This is not an IT thing by moorley · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I worked 3 contracts for HP.

    Each of them ended the same way. After years of successful operation, and after a few failed attempts, they eventually handed the operations to another group either outsourced or over seas.

    The very core of an IT person is employing automation. We work to handle more than we could before. We build systems and procedures that ensure against failure and allow for our obsolescence.

    I've never minded it.

    But this is no longer an IT thing. Any job can be outsourced and automated.

    --
    "Don't fear death... fear not living..." -me :)
  4. Re:This sort of thing is why people like Trump by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 5, Insightful

    ...Trump keeps saying he'll do something about it.

    Yeah, and what he'll do is expand it. Trump loves the whole H-1B idea, and he's said so repeatedly.

    Trump: “I’m in favor of people coming into this country legally. And you know what? They can have it any way you want. You can call it visas, you can call it work permits, you can call it anything you want...."

    Trump: "We need highly skilled people in this country, and if we can’t do it, we’ll get them in. But, and we do need in Silicon Valley, we absolutely have to have."

    Trump’s answer during the Megyn Kelly interview was consistent with his answer during the CNBC debate. He said again that Silicon Valley needs highly skilled workers, and showed his support for the H-1B program. Further, he appeared to support employers sponsoring H-1B workers for green cards, saying, “We absolutely have to be able to keep the brain power in this country.”

    Also, he said, “I know the H-1B. I know the H2B. Nobody knows it better than me. I’m a businessman. These are laws. These are regulations. These are rules. We’re allowed to do it. I will take advantage of it; they’re the laws. But I’m the one that knows how to change it. Nobody else on this dais knows how to change it like I do, believe me.”

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  5. Re:This sort of thing is why people like Trump by AK+Marc · · Score: 5, Informative

    Bernie's "free everything" has a funding plan that pays for all of it, and doesn't grow the debt. Only his haters imply the plan can't work, when it's about the same as everyone else's, with just a few numbers changed.

  6. Re:This sort of thing is why people like Trump by smooth+wombat · · Score: 4, Informative

    No, I got your point. I was showing the hypocrisy of those who blindly support him.

    He says he'll bring jobs back to America yet refuses to manufacturer his own products in this country.

    He say's the economy sucks yet he's making money at it by not employing Americans.

    He talks about how much his stuff is worth, such as a golf course, yet his accountants value the same property at 1/10 what he says, thus depriving the community of taxes.

    I read his book, Art of the Deal, way back when (unlike others just now jumping on the band wagon). In it he openly describes how he deceived and lied to banks to get his loans for the casinos in Atlantic City.

    His famed Trump University? Nothing but a money-making scheme to get people to hand over their money. Even the people who used to work for him state it was all a big lie.

    But none of this matters to his supporters. Not even the fact he considers failure (i.e bankruptcy) his first option rather than the last will dissuade those who are pissed a black guy is in office, the stock market is at its highest levels ever, all the jobs lost by the last president have been recovered and then some and gas prices are low. All they want to hear are platitudes and bloviating from a white guy who is on his third marriage.

    --
    We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
  7. You can't compete by rsilvergun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    With India. You just can't. Their quality of life is so much lower and they have so many desperate people. I can't compete with people who lack clean air, water and food security unless I give up those things.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  8. Mass Quit Together, Unionize, Make it Painful by Proudrooster · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Come on guys, fight fire with fire! Everyone walk together! Everyone! Maybe even leave a few fires burning, not that you caused any. Get together and agree on your severance package and demands present it to the company as a group. Make it painful.

    They can't do this easily without you. Make them give you a golden parachute.

    Folks, we are Americans! Our forefathers sailed the oceans on wooden ships the size of school bus. We are hearty, tough, and are not to be trifled with.

    We have to stop getting trampled. This is not who we are.

    Get together. Stand together. Fight the man together.

    Take it to social media.

    Blog it.

    Make noise.

    These jerks are taking your jobs and your livelihoods. If this company wants to move to India, let them go sell their shit in India, but make sure another American doesn't do business with them.

    Make sure TRUMP spouts their name at his rallies and what a disgrace this company is to the USA.

    Look outside your tunnel. Get your friends involved. It is time to man up and bring it!

    And it would be a total shame if you put up a kickstarter page to help you all stick together through this.

    Maybe a sympathetic hacking group would get involved to create mayhem until you are able to get back in the saddle.

    It is time to drop the hammer and get tough. They do not tell you what you get as severance, you tell them. You are not a dog being fed scraps.

    Knowledge is power. Don't go gently into that dark night!

  9. Re:This sort of thing is why people like Trump by CaptainDork · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There's a larger point to be made here.

    Let's review our basic civics classes from back in elementary school and ask ourselves the test question. "What are the three branches of American government?"

    Then let's ask ourselves which branch of government makes laws and provides for funding of issues like monitoring Muslims, building Walls, deporting 11 million people, kicking the fuck out of ISIS, changing tax laws, or even making America great again?

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
  10. Keep telling yourselves unions are bad... by frank_adrian314159 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    After all, they're the only thing that has ever worked against a bunch of asshat employers.

    --
    That is all.
  11. Re: This sort of thing is why people like Trump by ogdenk · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Yep and the corrupt oligarch who flip-flops on every single issue every time she's handed a big wad of cash is any better.

    I was willing to give Bernie a chance but not Hillary. Not ever. She's insane and completely fake. She's just as bad a narcissistic psychopath as Trump if not worse. Trump is an idiot and will be completely ineffective as a president as well as being stonewalled at every turn. I can deal with 4 years of zero progress and he'll help further the destruction of the GOP allowing a 3rd party to eventually rise. I'm OK with that.

    Clinton OTOH I absolutely KNOW will try to strip me of my rights. Trump will leave me alone and his crazier ideas will never pass. If Trump wins, it's because the Dems and media screwed Bernie over while labeling him as an unelectable commie.

    Me? I'm back to my usual Libertarian vote but I was willing to put up with the Social Democrat who was reasonably honest. Gary Johnson 2016! #FeelTheJohnson

  12. Re:This sort of thing is why people like Trump by losfromla · · Score: 5, Informative

    30 years ago we had free, or next to free college in California. All the way through a Doctorate at the public universities UCs and CSUs, some of which were also world class.

    --
    Only I can judge you.
  13. Re: This sort of thing is why people like Trump by ogdenk · · Score: 4, Insightful

    She was a big supporter of TPP until she flipped recently for the purpose of vote whoring. She'll flip again. Her and her husband supported that whole "Clipper Chip" fiasco and she is clearly anti-encryption. She supports criminalizing "hate speech". She supported CA's draconian 3-strikes BS. She absolutely hates the 2nd amendment. She's stated in the past that she'd happily engage in gun confiscation given half a chance.

    Basically, she's an anti-liberty statist who has absolutely no qualms against screwing over anyone and everyone when it's convenient for her.

    And don't think I'm saying Trump is better, he's not and I don't believe for a second he'll do anything about situations like TFA states. There's a reason the Libertarians are polling in the double digits and that can only be a good thing.

  14. Re: This sort of thing is why people like Trump by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Better question: which branch ENFORCES the laws?

    As in, it's already illegal to hire an Indian, er, H1-B, when an American is available. Clearly that's the case here and everywhere else. Why do we keep reading about people training their foreign replacements when it's not supposed to be happening, and why aren't executives in jail already?

  15. Re:This sort of thing is why people like Trump by sociocapitalist · · Score: 4, Informative

    IIRC, Bernie's plan was "significantly increase taxes on the middle class", which might actually work, assuming the economy doesn't tank as a result of the taxes. I like his honesty. When politicians say "tax the rich" what they always mean is "increase taxes on the middle class", but people keep falling for that lie.

    You could have taken three seconds to check before making such an inaccurate statement.

    https://berniesanders.com/issu...

    Bernie is the only sane hope for change at this time.

    --
    blindly antisocialist = antisocial