Google Announces Support of the Controversial TPP (recode.net)

An anonymous reader writes: Google has announced in a blog post Friday their support for the controversial Trans-Pacific Trade Partnership (TPP). Recode reports: "The trade agreement includes key provisions about the global passage of digital data, intellectual property and copyright -- measures that have drawn criticism from both the political right and left, including several outspoken tech groups. Google's endorsement isn't exactly full-throated, but its stake clearly demonstrates another key area of support with the Obama administration, to which Google is close." Google's SVP and general counsel Kent Walker wrote: "The TPP is not perfect, and the trade negotiation process would certainly benefit from greater transparency. We will continue to advocate for process reforms, including the opportunity for all stakeholders to have a meaningful opportunity for input into trade negotiations." The company has already shown support of the TPP behind the Internet Association, which endorsed the trade agreement in March. Google joins a list of other tech titans, like Apple and Microsoft, who have shown their support as well. The Electronic Frontier Foundation calls the TPP a "secretive, multinational trade agreement" that will restrict IP laws and enforce digital policies that "benefit big corporations at the expense of the public." The TPP is still awaiting congressional approval after being signed in February.

Comments

No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

The TPP was written by corporations, for corporations. No surprise that Google supports it. We need a revolution in this country.

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

We need a revolution in this country.

Here's your problem. Most of the millennials, who are being screwed the hardest by this unholy alliance of corporations and government, have never even handled a gun. They don't know how to use guns and even if they did they're far too craven to actually stand up and fight. Voting, as we have all seen, is useless because the corporations pay both sides. Bernie Sanders was the only major candidate so far in my lifetime who wasn't bought and paid for by the corporations, but the people were too stupid to nominate him. Clinton is going to win and she will sell out the young in a heartbeat to cut deals with the corporations, just like Bill did back in the 90s. Basically, we're screwed.

Re:No suprise

[MrKaos]

We need a revolution in this country.

Here's your problem. Most of the millennials, who are being screwed the hardest by this unholy alliance of corporations and government, have never even handled a gun. Basically, we're screwed.

Stop being so damn defeatist. You don't need a gun and you don't need violence, you need a pen. All you need to do, en masse, is get off your lazy ass and start lobbying politicians directly. Stop watching hours of moronic TV, get on your computer, fire up a word processor and start writing letters and tell them exactly what you want.

All of these paid lobby groups are minorities gambling that you will continue to sit there and have that exact attitude. There is no need to troll the politicians, be respectful and they will listen as 1 letter means about 100 people think that way, to them. That means 100 votes, and votes are currency just as much as money is to a politician as 100 votes is enough to make a difference in an election. I have had unexpected success on issues with politicians just by telling the *how* to address my concerns.

There is a reason why the adage goes The pen is mightier than the sword. Exercise your democratic right, stop whining and participate in your own future.

Re:No suprise

[Hairy1]

Revolution does not mean violent revolution; we are talking about a political revolution. Of course, now that Sanders appears to have lost the nomination the only real chance is for the electorate to demand he run as an independent or for the Greens. I know he doesn't want to, but maybe the case can be made that he owes his country a real option.

There will of course be people who whine about him 'splitting the vote', by which they mean giving people an actual choice to support a candidate that isn't a member of the One Party; the one bought and paid for by corporations. We thought Obama was that candidate. He wasn't. He lied.

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

There is still the possibility that Hillary will be indicted, and that Bernie will end up being the nominee for the Democratic party. The white house press secretary confirmed yesterday that Hillary is under CRIMINAL INVESTIGATION by the FBI.

Re:No suprise

[mcfedr]

Yes, because guns are the solution to all the problems everywhere

Re:No suprise

[thegarbz]

We need a revolution in this country.

Which country? The TPP has more than just the USA signature on it.

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

They tend to settle the argument.

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Tell that to Israel, Northern Ireland, Afghanistan and Somalia.

Northern Ireland finally decided otherwise.

Re: No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

You couldn't even recognize the quote. Set yourself on fire.

Re:No suprise

[omnichad]

Sure he'll split the vote. But not just Democrats. There are plenty of Never Trump Republicans, too.

Re:No suprise

[Plus1Entropy]

Can I ask you something? Why didn't you use your gun to stop the "unholy alliance of corporations and government" from forming in the first place? Why is it the millennials job to fix it after the fact, while you (and those of your generation) were asleep at the wheel?

Re:No suprise

[drinkypoo]

Stop being so damn defeatist. You don't need a gun and you don't need violence, you need a pen.

Ahh, the old canard about the pen being mightier than the sword. Guess what? It's a lot more difficult to use properly, and the American public has been undereducated for decades.

All you need to do, en masse, is get off your lazy ass and start lobbying politicians directly.

Is that what they told you? You really are special, aren't you?

Stop watching hours of moronic TV, get on your computer, fire up a word processor and start writing letters and tell them exactly what you want.

Look, kiddo, someone needs to explain to you how American "democracy" works, and it's not like this. The way it works is that you get a big bag of money, you enclose a bill for your pet congresscritter to sponsor, and then you mail it off to them. Shortly thereafter, you get a law. If you don't enclose a big check with your request, it gets round-filed.

Your naivete would be charming in a small child. In an adult, it's horrifying.

There is no need to troll the politicians, be respectful and they will listen as 1 letter means about 100 people think that way, to them.

And they give precisely as much of a shit about those other 99 people as they do about you. If you don't lobby them with money then they don't give a fuck. They might use the information to determine to what they should pay lip service, but they're not going to do anything for you.

I have had unexpected success on issues with politicians just by telling the *how* to address my concerns.

You think they did what they did because you said so? Wow, you really are special.

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

get off your lazy ass and sit down to write a letter ROFL

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Nonsense. All the politicians are the same side of the same coin.
The overall voting process is flawed because ALL candidates are equally shitty. This is true of the US, it is true of the UK where I am, it is true of any major country.

Go ahead, write your letters. The only people you will "touch" will be local government, and they have zero overall power.
You cannot, and will not, affect anything that happens beyond local governance.
You might change your leader, but they are all in bed with big business.
And the ones you cannot touch at all, the ones in "middle government", are the ones that control every sector, and no leader will touch them either because they simply don't give a damn.

The average pleb is nothing to the elite, barely even cogs of the machine.
They could nuke the whole planet if they chose to. They have all the funds they need to build and live in underground cities for a few years.
Don't think for a second that any of them care. They don't.

Re: No suprise

[drinkypoo]

What an insufferable twat. You really think you have it all figured out don't you?

Nobody likes having their illusions shattered, but yours (and the GP's) are fucking stupid, and you need it.

It must be depressing living in that "mind" of yours.

"reality" is often depressing, but try it sometime anyway.

Since you've figured it all out there's really nothing left to do but take a long walk off a short pier.

You first.

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Trump is against TPP, and has all the right enemies.

Re:No suprise

[110010001000]

Shut up about guns already. You gun nuts have had your guns for 100s of years. What have you done with them? Nothing. Are you going to overthrow the government with them? What a laugh. When is this going to happen?

Re:No suprise

[Ellis D. Tripp]

Many of the "never Trump" repugs will end up voting for Gary Johnson on the Libertarian ticket. Far more than would ever cross over and vote for Bernie if he ran with the Greens or similar left-wing 3rd party.

Bernie and Jill Stein represent a fundamental critique of the capitalist system that it would be very hard for most Republicans to get behind.

Re:No suprise

[mjm1231]

You're very right about how the current system is screwed, but it's also exactly the reason the guns and bullets solution is likely to fail. The same money that buys politicians will also buy a lot more guns and ammo than the opposition can muster. And replacing "money makes right" with "might makes right" doesn't seem like a step forward to me.

Even as undereducated as we are, we need to find a better way.

Re:No suprise

[mjm1231]

I have a better solution. No matter who you are or where you live, vote out your sitting congressman and senator. If you're not willing to do this, then you aren't as upset with the status quo as you're pretending to be.

Re:No suprise

[Dr.Dubious DDQ]

You don't need the presidency. It'd certainly be nice, but I don't think it's where reforms would make the most difference. It's kind of obscene the way people are led by media coverage to believe that the presidential race is the only important one.

I honestly suspect Sanders always knew his presidential campaign was a longshot. I think the only reason he's campaigning so hard is to preserve and build influence over the party platform and to keep similarly-inclined voters engaged.

Now comes the endorsing of politically-similar senator and representative candidates, fundraising, and campaigning for the more-important (but much less promoted) races for the legislature, and influencing the party platform (and maybe an influential position on one or more congressional committees). He'd be a lot less able to accomplish anything in those areas is he had been "the guy who saw he couldn't possibly win so he quit" rather than "the guy who fought hard all the way to the end, kept visibility on the issues that he'll be fighting for in the party platform, and made the establishment candidate work for the nomination in spite of the party establishment support."

If I'm right about that, there's no way he'll "Nader" the presidential election, that'd be counter-productive to what I'm assuming his real political goals are.

Re:No suprise

[matbury]

I think that's what the GOP are aiming for. Have you read the latest release from the CIA, "A Simple Sabotage Field Manual"? Reading page 28 onwards looks like the Republicans have memorised and internalised that manual and it's their attempt to provoke a revolution by frustrating the general population of the US. (Would also be useful if you don't like the company you work for). Unfortunately, it's backfired and now they've got Trump as their nominee ;P

Re:No suprise

[hughbar]

Yes agree. In the UK and Europe TTIP is posing the same problem for us. Negotiations in secret (except probably for lobbyists, Brussels is full of them, I worked there for a decade), lots of spin about 'how good it is' and every leak suggests that it's foul.

Re:No suprise

[William Baric]

We can't vote someone out. Sure, we have the "choice" to vote his twin in, but what would be the point?

Re: No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

No, he was right. You are an insufferable twat.

Everything must be given to you for free, so tighten the thumbscrews on business (while, incredibly, making it harder for media companies to earn the money so it can be taxed to pay for your government-provided goodies) thus driving business overseas to places like China which, while less politically free, are much freer economically.

Re:No suprise

[theshowmecanuck]

Simple minded troll.

Re:No suprise

[starblazer]

The better way is to make the politicians fear the public again. Start voting out the idiots in office. Show them that if you screw up and start favoring the corps, you're history.

However, with American complacency at its highest ever (probably), they don't have anything to fear. Keep giving them their XBone, Netflix, Food Stamps, and Social Security and all your little servants will be content. Feed them useless entertainment news about Bieber and the latest outrage about some LGBT bathroom scandal, and by the time they drop the news that they are bending you regarding your rights, you're too tired to fight it because you've been arguing about if a naturally born male should be allowed in a female bathroom.

To back up mjm, guns brings out bigger guns. If you haven't noticed, Police departments have ex-military vehicles now. They can withstand a revolution better than you or I can. They have the armor to defend themselves.

Start getting pissed off and vote your congresscritters out. Then you may watch them start listening again.

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Stop being so damn defeatist. You don't need a gun and you don't need violence, you need a pen.

Hear! Hear! I'm right with you.

All you need to do, en masse, is get off your lazy ass and start lobbying politicians directly.

Great - I'm still with you.

Stop watching hours of moronic TV, get on your computer, fire up a word processor and start writing letters and tell them exactly what you want.

Whoa, there. You're doing the wrong thing with that pen. Letters are OK, but the most important use for that pen is to write checks. Lobbying == bribery, and if you want to counter-balance a lobbying group, you need to out-spend them.

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Go Trump!

Re:No suprise

[mjm1231]

If you vote in a twin who does the same, vote them out too. Eventually, the lesson that acting against the interest of your constituents will not get you reelected will sink in.

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Guess who did know how to use guns? The people who invaded that park in Oregon. One guy got shot and they all surrendered like pussies. Go ahead and fight the government with a gun but they're just going to kill you with a drone before you even see the face of your enemy.

The Second amendment is fun to talk about but honestly, Americans have zero chances. You will talk about freedom and revolution then when there's 50 submachine guns pointed at your face all of a sudden maybe you don't feel like such a hero.

Use political process or don't but if you think you're going to be fighting the US Military with your stupid little rifle you're living in fantasy land.

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

... will listen as 1 letter means about 100 people ...

Assume 20,000 people vote, divide that by 100 to get the number of people who will write letters, 200, divide by 2 to get the tipping point, 100. In other words, the politician in this example can ignore the first 99 letters, because that's still the minority.

When US superPACs campaign for what they want, do they tell you to vote for their profits, for their attention-seeking megalomanic, for their political whore who earns more money from his corporate sponsors than his bureaucratic paycheck? SuperPAC propaganda tells you that you will suffer because you didn't vote for them. Political campaigns in other countries have the same message: You need to care about this. It's the voice of the community that causes politicians to care, not a few dozen acerbic letters disagreeing with that politician.

Good propaganda is grass-roots manipulation: They don't say gambling is bad, they say this casino will destroy the community. If the focus became the damage caused by gambling, people might start criticizing a different casino, which must be avoided. Even when the message targets the right people, those who live in the community, they will not care. In reality, people only care about their paycheck and comfy lifestyle. It's difficult to link an abstract issue like neo-liberalism, the purpose of the TPP, to specific damage in the community. This is why corporations are winning.

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Yea, give Democrats control of Congress instead. That will fix things. Idiot.

Clinton not only is corrupt, but her tenure at State Department has given the world a menu of prices for how much specific favours costs. You want to buy the worlds uranium? Russia can tell you how much to bribe her. Want to trade with countries under sanction? Iran can tell you how much you need to pay her for that. Need a quick line for Visas into the US? Dubai knows how much that will cost you.

Yea, vote in the party that lets everyone know how much it costs in bribes to corrupt the government, that will solve it. You are a complete idiot. Never in history has it been so clear who to bribe and for how much in the US to get illegal things declared legal.

Re: No suprise

[Bartles]

When is anyone going to suggest that we hold the President accountable for it? If you obamabots had held his feet to the fire it wouldn't have passed.

Re:No suprise

[Tokolosh]

The only to stop this kind of thing, is to take away the power of the politician to make laws at all. Sorry, but Bernie wants to add laws.

Re: No suprise

[Bartles]

We don't have a capitalist system for them to critique. They use capitalism as a bogeyman to drive people to support the imposition of their system.

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Since he picks fights with everybody and is a chronic cheat, it is not surprising he has all the right enemies. He makes almost everybody his enemy.

Re: No suprise

[Bartles]

Don't you think it's possible for trump to bring revolution? He is certainly the most anti-establishment candidate of my lifetime. He puts Bernie, a career government official and politician to shame in that regard.

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Writing letters? Yeah right.

Organize a group to call every 7 minutes between 6am and 8pm.
Show up in person 6 times per day.
Find out who influences that person and keep those people busy while trying to reach the one you're interested in.

Stuff gets done by being heard.

Re:No suprise

[MrKaos]

Wow, you're in a nasty mood aren't you. Look I get the cynicism, I just think there is something else between hopeless and a shoot up. Your reaction has been carefully manicured and it is exactly what the money wants you to think. You have been manipulated. Step out of your fear, grow a pair.

It's a lot more difficult to use properly, and the American public has been undereducated for decades.

So what's your excuse? Have you tried?

Is that what they told you? You really are special, aren't you?

No, that's what I *did*, and have been *doing* for over 15 years. Including as much of the TPP my verge of vomit exhaustion could possibly absorb recently, even knowing it was probably hopeless. Those years include recommendations and analysis of *all* of the implemented terrorism acts, cyber security acts. I'm not special, I'm just fed up of people sitting around not doing anything claiming to be powerless so they can bludgeon people with their moral sanctity, stories about chem trails and da gubberment. Fuck that, at least I can try.

Look, kiddo, someone needs to explain to you how American "democracy" works, and it's not like this.

Kiddo? I don't remember ever patronizing you dp. I understand your anger, but I don't think you are going to get anywhere directing it at me.

Sometimes I have success and sometimes I don't, everytime I learn. Guaranteed, if you do nothing, nothing happens and you don't have a hope of getting anything done and you become part of the problem.

And if you can give me an explanation based on your experiences then I'd be interested in that.

And they give precisely as much of a shit about those other 99 people as they do about you.

From the amount of letters I got *back* from politicians saying, gee, I didn't know that about this sometimes, yes, the wordings of those laws were changed and sometimes rejected all together. In one case I wrote a detailed analysis of the implementation of a National security legislation and got a 4 page letter back from the AG so based on that evidence I'm inclined to disagree.

You think they did what they did because you said so? Wow, you really are special.

When you get a letter from a politician that pretty much tells you they are powerless it's more sobering in realization than sitting around in blissful ignorance making up conspiracy theories. Bottom line, I don't know, but I'll sleep with a light conscious. If you want to make excuses for apathy I'm not really interested, because it is the same as being Pwned.

Don't take it out on me, I'm not *your* enemy.

Re: No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

As a politician, let me explain how it really works. I'm here for four years (on average). I can waste my time listening to losers whine about shit or I can rake in as much money as I can from corporate lobbies, bribes, kickbacks, and favor seekers. I know what I'm doing for the next four years.

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Damn it, you're right. We should buy a bunch of guns, manufactured by the huge multinational corporations that are in bed with the government, to take on the government... and the huge multinational corporations that are in bed with the government...

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

You freaking appeaser. I've been doing that for the last 40 years. It has gotten nowhere.

Just a question for you. Imagine you lived in the period of the American Revolution. When would you begin to forcibly resist relative to, say, Lexington Green? Before, same time, sometime after, or never?

Re:No suprise

[no-body]

"... opposed legislation that could help curb it."

And the legislators follow striclty the principle of "by the people for the people" - 6 words - a basis for democracy the US was once built on - sure - nowadays falsified to "for the corporations against the people", and there is no end to all this abuse.

This sucks beyond anything imaginable!

What was the reason for independence from EN?

Experienced and felt abuse in many instances.

Sounds familiar? Write to your legislators in plain language a letter to their home address that they are corrupt and no longer serve the people in their state but to other interests paying them which is called bribery.

Re:No suprise

[phantomfive]

We thought Obama was that candidate.

But somehow that doesn't stop you from believing that Sanders is "the one?" Hint: "the one" doesn't exist.

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

I never wanted him in the first place, and neither did many of the people in my district, but not enough the first time around and now he's nearly challenge-proof, as they gerrymandered my district to include areas that were his support base in his previous job as a corrupt mayor.

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Shut up about guns already. You gun nuts have had your guns for 100s of years. What have you done with them? Nothing. Are you going to overthrow the government with them? What a laugh. When is this going to happen?

It's called checks and balances. When the government becomes as corrupt as it is now with all of the spooked corporate pussies kowtowing to the US/EU government employees you should be thankful you are not starving on rice and vodka right now.

Re:No suprise

[Agripa]

All you need to do, en masse, is get off your lazy ass and start lobbying politicians directly.

Which one? The one who supports TPP or the other one who supports TPP?

Re:No suprise

[Agripa]

The better way is to make the politicians fear the public again. Start voting out the idiots in office. Show them that if you screw up and start favoring the corps, you're history.

So vote one idiot out of office allowing the other idiot to have a turn? I am sure the two idiots will be fine with that arrangement.

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Only the actual spooks that changed their names and left their families forever to die in wonderland won't have families to lose in the event of uses of force against the American citizenry. All of the new laws and going to jail for downloading an mp3 or facing $30,000 fines etc. The false terrorism narrative, etc. Karma bitches.

Re:No suprise

[pablo_max]

Stop being so damn defeatist. You don't need a gun and you don't need violence, you need a pen.

.... and the American public has been undereducated for decades.

Well, that is dictatorship 101. That is literally step 1. Keep you people too stupid to understand what's going on. Limit education to the ruling class. If you allow the dirty masses to become educated, ensure that it enslaves them in a mountain of dept.

Re:No suprise

[jez9999]

Clinton is going to win and she will sell out the young in a heartbeat to cut deals with the corporations

There's this guy called Donald Trump who happens to oppose shit like TPP.

But of course he sais some bad about the Religion of Death, so he must be a racist bigoted evil literally Hitler.

Re:No suprise

[pablo_max]

You are correct in saying that government can buy WAY more guns, but you are forgetting something very important.
I, perhaps like some of you, served in the military. There is one thing which I would say at least 90% of the military members would not do. Turn their guns on Americans. NOT GOING TO HAPPEN.
I would say that the military members are MORE likely to turn their guns on the government if such an order was ever given. I know I would have.

Re:No suprise

[chihowa]

Her party nomination will survive an indictment. Running a solidly establishment candidate under criminal investigation is preferable to the establishment over running Sanders and most partisan Democrat voters will vote for her (especially over Trump) to keep her position safe. If the investigation makes any progress, she'll be pardoned before she's found guilty of anything.

The only risk is that Sanders runs as an independent and spoils her vote, but I'm sure that there are mechanisms in place to mitigate the damage in that case.

Re:No suprise

[Agripa]

At the moment Trump says he is against TPP but this is the same guy who was against the right to bear arms before he supported it.

Re: No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

You mean, vote the other guy's congressman out. My congressman is doing a fine job of protecting my job.

Re:No suprise

[KingMotley]

What leads you to believe that the millennials are getting screwed the hardest? Of all the age groups, I would say they get hit the least hard, right after retirees.

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Shut up about voting already. You voting nuts have had your rights for 100s of years. What have you done with them? Nothing! Are you going to overthrow the government with votes? What a laugh. When is this going to happen?

Re: No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

as a conservative (more meaningful term than republican which is just the name for one sub branch of the corporate controlled anti freedom party), i assure you i would vote for sanders before clinton or any other one parry stooge.

do you even know any conservatives? or have you surrounded yourself in your own little self defined echo chamber where you already know what Those Other People think or would do... the ones you never met.

Re: No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

"we" did not think obama was that candidate. you were fooled. some of us actually did reseach and *listened* to what he said (very litte) and saw him foe what he is. you got a tingle up your leg, turned poff your brain, and pulled the wrong lever. but gosh at least it was "historic"!! as if that was important. (hint, it isnt); the presidency isnt a feel good game, or at least shouldnt be, thus you shouldnt vote in a higher ratio of melatonin or for a vagina or anything similarly unrelated to ability to,govern and make wise decisons on the behalf of american citizens.

Re: No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Northern Ireland is perhaps not the best example for your argument against plebian gun ownership. The Irish won their freedom from the yoke of English tyranny through force of arms.

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Not really. Neither idiot wants to lose the vote to the other idiot. If they think listening to the voters will affect their chances of being re-elected they will listen. Although this is problematic when the idiot in power doesn't want to stand for re-election. There also needs to be a way for the voters to kick politicians out of office before the term is up.

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Laws are necessary for the running of society. If the elected politicians don't do it, then who do you propose does?

You can't get rid of all laws, as that will initially lead to anarchy, and through the anarchy and dictator will rise to bring order and rule by force. And keeping laws as they are isn't a good option as there are many shit laws that have a negative impact on society, these need to be scrapped, but often will need to be replaced with sane laws, and someone will have to make them.

Re:No suprise

[William Baric]

So how do we vote out the second one? By voting in the first one again? And we keep alternating like that ad vitam aeternam?

Re: No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Interesting! What we need is microrevolutiona. Boycott state governments and local taxes unless your voice is heard at city council. Put the corrupt on the stand and fill the courthouses with unrest until something is fixed locally. The recent fraud arrests in Texas is a perfectly good start.

Re:No suprise

[justthinkit]

Ahh, the old canard about the pen being mightier than the sword. Guess what? It's a lot more difficult to use properly, and the American public has been undereducated for decades.

These days most of those letters would be printed. Cursive is no longer taught in US schools, or at least the ones in this state. I can see some high brow congressman being mightily impressed with a thousand "D.e.a.r. M.i.s.t.o.r. C.o.n.g.r.e.s.m.a.n." letters.

Re:No suprise

[judoguy]

The better way is to make the politicians fear the public again. Start voting out the idiots in office.

Again with this drivel? With the exception of an incredibly difficult and rare recall, you can't VOTE SOMEONE OUT OF OFFICE. You can only vote someone in. Take a look at the recent Democrat primary for an example of an entrenched power supported by the media establishment keeping that power.

Re:No suprise

[MrKaos]

Which one? The one who supports TPP or the other one who supports TPP?

Unfortunately, I know you are right. As hopeless as I thought it was, I still tried because at least the politicians will have to live with knowing that what they did is public record. It's also about what you learn in the process.

Re:No suprise

[MrKaos]

Really, give me an example as I have.

I didn't live in the american revolution, I live in the 21st century. My concerns are with the here and now.

Re:No suprise

[MrKaos]

Sounds great, have you *done* anything about it?

Re:No suprise

[MrKaos]

get off your lazy ass and sit down to write a letter ROFL

Ahh, the moral superiority of a coward.

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

There's hundreds of millions of small arms in private ownership in the US. Most of them aren't full auto but that's ok, semi-autos make conserving ammo much easier and can still throw a lot of lead quite rapidly. And most gun owners have been hoarding ammo for quite some time. There's also a lot more of us than there are of them. 2 guys with semi-autos is easily worth one with a full auto assault rifle if they have any cover and their fire will be more accurate. It's not uncommon at all right now for someone to have 1500 rounds or more sitting in the closet. Many have far more than that. There's enough bathroom meth cooks in this country that could repurpose their skills for improvised explosives as well. And as government troops fell, their weapons would become our weapons. The Chechen folks figured that one out pretty quick.

Yes it would be bloody, yes casualties would be incredibly heavy and yes they have fighter planes and tanks. It would be long, drawn out, vicious and brutal but it's certainly quite winnable. The question should be is it worth it? Do we wait until they hit 999 with their death by 1000 cuts to our Liberty? And by then is it too late? Will they successfully disarm us beforehand? Can people manage to set aside their differences and organize without being crushed by the state for merely talking to each other? Could any state governments and local NG units be convinced to side with the people if the Feds try to disarm us?

Is a peaceful revolution possible without bloodshed or is the system stacked too far against us at this point? Is our system so broken that we can't fix it?

Re: No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

If he was living during the American Revolution then there would be roughly a 33% chance he was a Loyalist, a 33% chance he didnt want to get involved, or a 33% chance he was waiting for the French to arrive to bail his sorry ass out.
Pick one.

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

People were writing in letters at a 200:1 ratio telling the government to NOT pass the TARP bank bailout.

They passed it anyways.

Face it, the only thing politicians answer to these days are bags of money, favor, or fear. I'd like to think they fear being voted out, but I think the voting system has been rigged for some time now.

Re:No suprise

[110010001000]

Exactly. So just shut up about guns. Your guns are about as effective as your vote. You gun nuts are all talk.

Re: No suprise

[MrKaos]

What an insufferable twat. You really think you have it all figured out don't you?

Nobody likes having their illusions shattered, but yours (and the GP's) are fucking stupid, and you need it.

What I achieve and what you *think* I achieve are not the same thing. People getting involved and writing letters also means *they* get educated and the politicians know they are under observation because they know they won't get away with something unnoticed. Maybe, just maybe, they will do something or not do something.

I have no illusions to shatter, I know this system is corrupt and that what I am doing will probably fail. Reading and writing about these laws helps you see exactly what is going on behind the scenes and to understand what is going on because there are as much lessons in failure as there are in success. Frankly, it's more interesting than anything on the TV. You know the system as corrupt the difference is I have some ideas as to the depth of that corruption where it is and hasn't reached.

As you rightly pointed out, education. It starts with people educating themselves about what is going on, what is not reported in the news and, actually reading Bills that are drafted. Look at Burr-Feinstein and encryption, there was enough resistance to knock that over because it was stupid. However what you don't realize is that is the first round in this battle not to decrypt communications, but to record meta data through the definitions of data drafted in the bill - which will survive elsewhere because they went virtually unnoticed this time around. Has your cynicism produced enough insights to understand the state of play and look for where it will come up again?

The covert police state is revealing itself because the American Empire is on the verge of collapse and desperate to maintain control. Desperate sick animals are dangerous and often lash out. If you read the TPP you would see that it is a battering ram to legally pillage every country that is forced to interact with American corporations through ISDS. The TPP aims to spread the American Empire with desperate times and suffering ahead. We are in this together, are you prepared?

You say what I am doing is 'fucking stupid', but you have little idea why I do it. I don't accept anything you have said here. I have resisted the urge to patronise you in return because I read your posts when I see them and I respect your opinions but for all your vitriol I think you are criticizing me because you are afraid and I don't blame you, so am I.

What is your suggestion? What do you *do*? What have you done? Do you even have an answer?

Re:No suprise

[starblazer]

mindless bitching like that is one of the reasons why we as Americans can't get anything done. You can't make changes unless you vote. If you vote for another person, you are attempting to vote the incumbent out.

Now, what do you suggest? We have to get Citizens United overturned first... but we need to shake them up to make them scared, which requires people to show up at the polls. Getting more than 40% of voters to show up during a non-presidential year would be a start.

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

Hence the huge push for drone development..

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

It's nice to talk big but do you have any evidence or cases where people writing letters actually changed the voting habits of a representative? That's the problem: politicians are not actually accountable to anyone, and the threat of not being elected again doesn't matter because by then they've already gotten their cozy paychecks and can fuck off to vacation or retirement.

The entire system is broken and cannot sustain a good society. It's corrupt to its core until politicians can be held accountable for their decisions and/or actions.

Re:No suprise

[Pfhorrest]

Not on "real red blooded Americans" maybe, but on blacks, gays, Muslims, transgender people, atheists, Mexicans...?

Re:No suprise

[MrKaos]

Lobbying == bribery, and if you want to counter-balance a lobbying group, you need to out-spend them.

No you don't, you need to out-lobby them.

Re:No suprise

[drinkypoo]

Don't take it out on me, I'm not *your* enemy.

If you're pushing the myth that the left and right wing are not two parts of the same bird, you most certainly are.

Re: No suprise

[NotAPK]

"My congressman is doing a fine job of protecting my job."

There's a lot more to good governance than this. Stop being so selfish.

Re:No suprise

[dryeo]

And Liberals. This is the big problem with armed revolt, America is so divided into camps that it'll deteriorate into something like Right vs Left fighting while the powers that be sit back and let it happen.

Re:No suprise

[Anonymous Coward]

When the next meal is not a certainty, and the future looks worse than the present. Look at Venezuela. If the USA was in that state, you'd bet your ass the guns would start shootin'.

Re:No suprise

[MrKaos]

Don't take it out on me, I'm not *your* enemy.

If you're pushing the myth that the left and right wing are not two parts of the same bird, you most certainly are.

You will find comments from me saying *exactly* what you have said, here is a joke I made about it a few days ago. You will also find several of my posts over the years saying that left and right wing politics do not exist anymore. That structural issues that affect everybody have not been addressed and that very few laws are passed that reflect the interests of the populous i.e. corporal human beings.

There is no need to attack me, I am not your enemy.

Re:No suprise

[drinkypoo]

The better way is to make the politicians fear the public again. Start voting out the idiots in office.

Here's the problem: Democratic presidential candidates aside, there was literally no one I wanted to vote for on the last ballot I received. Even local politics are dominated by money, and I can't afford to manipulate even those, so how do you propose that we do this? If by accident a decent politician makes it in local politics, there's still plenty of time to ruin his life before he can get into a higher office. If by some amazing series of coincidences they manage to make it all the way to candidate for president, vote (not voter, but vote) manipulation will be used to ensure that they are not actually elected.

You literally cannot vote out the idiots in office. So, what's your second proposal?

Re:No suprise

[david_thornley]

You know what happens when you try solving a problem like this with guns? They arrest you. It turns out that you're the guy committing the violent crime, and even if you have what can be argued to be a legitimate cause, you're going to be convicted and sentenced to years in prison.

If you get more guns to defend yourself against the police or FBI or BATFE or whatever, the government escalates. You're likely to be killed, and if not it's still years in prison. The only way you could defend yourself against arrest is to have a large enough army to give the US military a difficult problem, or to be in some other country without a good extradition treaty.

Re: No suprise

[david_thornley]

Northern Ireland is part of the UK still, so it's unclear what you mean by "freedom from the yoke of English tyranny".

If

[Anonymous Coward]

Google, Apple, and Microsoft all support the same thing then you know it can't be good for the rest of us.

Re:If

[Rosco P. Coltrane]

This.

If Google is in favor of something, you can be fairly sure it's not something you want as an free individual and z citizen - even without reading what it's about. Me, that's my metric for determining whether or not I should support something without delving into the details.

Don't be evil...

[serviscope_minor]

Don't be evil... unless it gets in the way of profit.

Re:Don't be evil...

[jordancjones]

RIP Don't be evil...

Re: Don't be evil...

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah "don't be evil" went out the window a long time ago.

Google is out of their fucking minds

[Anonymous Coward]

Just like the 200+ comments on Hacker News, another news aggregation site with a very tech-savvy demo, you will have to look really hard to find anyone who supports the TPP.

The EFF has written extensively how digital rights are negatively affected by this.

The TPP is bad, bad, bad, and it's been fast tracked for passage with no debate/oversight. Hopefully there will be a SOPA-like outcry against it that shuts it down. All three Dem/GOP presidential candidates claim to be against it (but we'll see how long that lasts). Not sure about libertarian candidates.. somehow I suspect they'll take the more traditional "free trade" perspective, but maybe I'll be delightfully surprised.

Too bad Google's on the wrong side of history here.

Re:Google is out of their fucking minds

[ShanghaiBill]

it's been fast tracked for passage with no debate/oversight.

Fast track does not mean "no debate", it just means that the deal has to be either accepted or rejected by congress. It cannot be amended or changed. That is the only workable way to do it. It is an agreement between a dozen countries. If the legislature of each country is able to nitpick and send it back for renegotiation, then there is no way anything will every get done.

Even if congress could change the agreement, that wouldn't help, since the worst crap in the TPP was put there at the insistence of American corporations and interest groups. Most likely congressional amendments would make it even worse.

Not sure about libertarian candidates.

Gary Johnson is opposed to the TPP. He supports free trade in principle, but does not support the TPP.

Re:Google is out of their fucking minds

[Anonymous Coward]

If the legislature of each country is able to nitpick and send it back for renegotiation, then there is no way anything will every get done.

Precisely. Treaties are supposed to be hard to pass. It was no less a person than George Washington himself who warned us about foreign entanglements. The ratification and amendment process in the legislature for a treaty isn't a bug, it's a feature.

He supports free trade in principle, but does not support the TPP.

The problem with free trade is that its never actually free. After decades of declining wages, lost jobs and other trade related misery, Americans are ready for Trump's message of "America First". Trump has a good point on trade, we always seem to get the short end of the stick in every trade deal we make.

Re:Google is out of their fucking minds

[Kjella]

Too bad Google's on the wrong side of history here.

Considering history is written by the winners and all the rich and powerful are in favor of TPP, I wouldn't bet on it. Google's on top now, they make lots of money and can deal with the overhead of the DMCA, the "right to be forgotten" and various rules and requirements. They know their startup competitors will struggle more than they do, it's securing their own business.

Re: Google is out of their fucking minds

[Anonymous Coward]

The most frightening thing about is fact track is this:

Where is Congress getting the authority to pass this treaty with a simple majority vote in both the House and the Senate? Better yet, why is the House of Representatives even involved here?

The US constitution is explicit in this matter. All treaties will be taken up and considered in the Senate, not in the House, and even then, all treaties are only made law after a TWO-THIRDS majority vote.

Where are these powers coming from that allow Congress to disobey these provisions?

Re:Google is out of their fucking minds

[mcfedr]

The only debate has been between those with a vested interest in it happening, and no one else having a look at it

Re:Google is out of their fucking minds

[thegarbz]

Too bad Google's on the wrong side of history here.

The right side of history is determined by the winners.

Re: Google is out of their fucking minds

[reboot246]

What Constitution? They shredded that a long time ago. Politicians know history. Perhaps it's time for the people to learn. Bread and circuses. EBT and American Idol. Works every time.

We're almost to the point of no return, but we can win if we don't let them divide us.

Re: Google is out of their fucking minds

[fnj]

What Constitution?

The one which the President and every last fucking Congressman swore a solemn oath to uphold and defend, that's what Constitution. Everyone participating in this act is participating in a brazen act to overthrow our nation.

Re: Google is out of their fucking minds

[FudRucker]

The US Government has been in a constant state of treason for since JFK was assassinated.

Re: Google is out of their fucking minds

[BlueStrat]

The US Government has been in a constant state of treason for since JFK was assassinated.

Arguably, ever since Lincoln, or at least since FDR and his (successful) threat to pack the SCOTUS with extra Justices in order to pass portions of his Great Society plan that were blatantly unconstitutional and over which the then-current SCOTUS/Justices in the majority were not willing to allow to pass judicial muster. The SCOTUS caved to FDR, or we might have 14 or more SCOTUS Justices today rather than 9.

Then there was Wilson who racially segregated the US armed forces when they were not racially segregated at the time.

It seems that the farther away from the US Constitution that the US government gets, the worse things get for US citizens and arguably for the rest of the world.

Strat

Re:Google is out of their fucking minds

[swb]

Gary Johnson is opposed to the TPP. He supports free trade in principle, but does not support the TPP.

I voted for Johnson last time around and I agree with a lot of libertarian ideas.

One thing I ponder, though, is if libertarianism is a lot like communism in some ways -- the idealized version of it is great, but due to the stupid nature of people you can't ever really have the idealized version of it, all you actually get is the crap version of it. Free trade is never going to be free trade, it's going to be a TPP version of free trade, for example.

Re:Google is out of their fucking minds

[Anonymous Coward]

"Free trade" economic theories are based on humans engaging in activities based on their own economic self interest. ALL working economists believe that there are no actual human beings who behave this way. As a solution, some have come up with methods to nudge or trick people into behavior that better matches their model.
This is the opposite of how science works. When science discovers that their model does not match the world, they change the model. They don't try to shape reality to fit the model.

All ideology driven systems are always doomed to failure.

Re:Google is out of their fucking minds

[Ol Olsoc]

One thing I ponder, though, is if libertarianism is a lot like communism in some ways -- the idealized version of it is great, but due to the stupid nature of people you can't ever really have the idealized version of it, all you actually get is the crap version of it.

Sokath, his eyes uncovered! It is good to see that I'm not one of the few that like the ideas of Libertarianism, but know it will fail almost instantly upon implementation.It relies upon 100 percent high intelligence and 100 percent ethhical and honest people.

But it isn't alone, capitalism assumes that as soon as someone achieves success, they won't try to turn every advantage to themselves. Any pure ism fails very quickly.

Except perhaps pragmatism, because it picks and chooses what actually works. Then again, pragmatism is actually anti-idealism in action.

Idealism drives us off the cliff, because that is the only way to go. Pragmatism takes the route that goes by the strip club, but arrives alive.

Re: Google is out of their fucking minds

[Anonymous Coward]

Arguably, ever since Lincoln, or at least since FDR and his (successful) threat to pack the SCOTUS with extra Justices in order to pass portions of his Great Society plan that were blatantly unconstitutional and over which the then-current SCOTUS/Justices in the majority were not willing to allow to pass judicial muster. The SCOTUS caved to FDR, or we might have 14 or more SCOTUS Justices today rather than 9.

You'd have a better argument if not for Supreme Court decisions like Dred Scott v. Sandford, Lochner v. New York, Pace v. Alabama, Plessy v. Ferguson, and more that have shown the character of the Supreme Court is not one of liberty itself.

Even Bork and John Roberts have distanced themselves from the Court of that time.

Then there was Wilson who racially segregated the US armed forces when they were not racially segregated at the time.

Wilson came before FDR, and his segregation policies were across the Federal service.

It seems that the farther away from the US Constitution that the US government gets, the worse things get for US citizens and arguably for the rest of the world.

Strat

Actually, I've found it's the opposite. The more a person wraps themselves in the US Constitution (or any such document), the worst things have been for US citizens and the rest of the world. This has been true since South Carolina's first nullification crisis at the latest, and possibly more. I won't say the US Constitution is as deliberately obstructionist as say, Alabama's, but it does have many obvious faults, and if you look at the character of the people who most stridently insist on their being originalist constitutionalists, they're the ones who have done the things that have led to more harm.

Give me a man who stands by his own sense of justice, over a man who wears a cloak woven from others. At least then he has to stand by his own merits.

Re:Google is out of their fucking minds

[Anonymous Coward]

Google should think about the welfare of its employees.

Re:Google is out of their fucking minds

[pablo_max]

In the US there will be no outcry. Fuckers are too lazy.
However, there has been massive protests about it in Europe. Several politicians over here have promised to kill it no matter what.

Re: Google is out of their fucking minds

[Anonymous Coward]

It seems that the farther away from the US Constitution that the US government gets, the worse things get for US citizens and arguably for the rest of the world.

Strat

Actually, I've found it's the opposite. The more a person wraps themselves in the US Constitution (or any such document), the worst things have been for US citizens and the rest of the world. This has been true since South Carolina's first nullification crisis at the latest, and possibly more. I won't say the US Constitution is as deliberately obstructionist as say, Alabama's, but it does have many obvious faults, and if you look at the character of the people who most stridently insist on their being originalist constitutionalists, they're the ones who have done the things that have led to more harm.

Give me a man who stands by his own sense of justice, over a man who wears a cloak woven from others. At least then he has to stand by his own merits.

Good, then we can toss your ass in prison for participating in a conversation which expresses anti-government sentiments and you'll be fine with that because you've given up your rights, as the Constitution is what restricts government from ignoring/violating them at will.

PS-You're a special kind of stupid, ain'tchya?

Re:Google is out of their fucking minds

[Anonymous Coward]

Libertarianism lacks the control of the state. The state is gone or very small. So there is no entity to decide what is capital and how it will be protected or enforced. Some libertarians claim this control can be done by private companies where you choose with your wallet. But than you have the problem that successful companies can become monopolies, because in an ultimate free market (without any government intervention), monopolies will be the norm. You will end up in a society where companies will decide your lives.
 
We had this in Europe during industrialization. In my country the big capitalists worked together with the catholic church. The saying was: "The industrialist says to the priest: You keep them dumb, I keep them poor." And that is what happened. This was libertarianism, with the conservative catholic party (who had 80% of the votes) in an unholy coalition. Officially conservative, in practice libertarian.
 
This is when liberal parties started to win votes and even became the largest part. The liberal party wanted to reform the education system, remove the catholic influence from the school, because they knew that only through education you could stop the 'you keep them dumb' part of the alliance. Liberals were not too fond of taking money from the rich and give it to the poor. It was a fierce fight, it even became violent and the Catholic conservatives gave birth to socialist parties with their stubborn attitude. 19th century socialist parties where revolutionary. They practiced guerrilla tactics and committed terror attacks. They even killed industrialists and priests and there was a big chance that our country would become the first communist country in the 19th century. The Catholics couldn't do anything else than form a coalition with the liberals and freedom of education and free education was installed. 20 years later many people where freed from both the power of the catholic church and the power of the industrialists. The slow recovery from about 80 years of libertarian nouveau rich could finally begin.

The socialist became the party of the factory worker, the liberals became the party of the individual freedom and equal rights for everyone (including woman), the Catholic party became the conservatives who wanted to go back to the 'keep them dumb'-society. The Catholic party was almost gone until they realized that even catholics didn't want to be kept dumb and started to allow a left wing in the party. This move made the the biggest party from the 1920's until the early 1960's (with absolute power). After WWII they tried to take control over the schooling system again with monetary help from the Vatican who had enriched themselves during the war. This was again a time of violent protests and they ultimately accepted defeat and reformed to the Humanitarian Christian Party (no longer Catholic) and became a center right party who embraced the secular state and schooling system.

What I want to say is that libertarianism is an utopia that doesn't make the 99% happy. Libertarianism is an utopia for the 1%. Libertarian Utopia with capitalism is even more Utopian. No state means no capital and capital means a coalition of authoritarian run companies who control everything. And it will take a very long time, several generations, to undo the harm done by libertarianism.

Re:Google is out of their fucking minds

[mrchaotica]

If the legislature of each country is able to nitpick and send it back for renegotiation, then there is no way anything will every get done.

No shit, Sherlock! That's exactly what we as opponents of the TPP want to happen!

Re:Google is out of their fucking minds

[Anonymous Coward]

Just like the 200+ comments on Hacker News [ycombinator.com], another news aggregation site with a very tech-savvy demo

Altman, Sam (USA), President, Y Combinator
Schmidt, Eric E. (USA), Executive Chairman, Alphabet Inc.
Eric Schmidt Gets A Job At The Pentagon - Slashdot, https://news.slashdot.org/story/16/03/06/1834211/eric-schmidt-gets-a-job-at-the-pentagon
Graham, Lindsey (USA), Senator

Tech-savvy hacker demo eh? With the Pentagon and CIA, and 1 of 100 Senators.
Meanwhile Facebook profiles, Google tracks, Twitter profiles and tracks, etc.

Is everybody too busy to notice they are being fucked off?

Re:Google is out of their fucking minds

[Anonymous Coward]

http://bilderbergmeetings.org/participants.html

Here's the rest of the participants. Don't expect them to say anything, it's high treason and they literally kill you for that shit in America. 100 percent death penalty.

Re:Google is out of their fucking minds

[Anonymous Coward]

Free Trade can't work when one side has sweatshops and the other has strict laws preventing that.

It's like how unlimited can't work in a libertarian-democracy. They'll just vote about libertarians ideas.

Re:Google is out of their fucking minds

[Anonymous Coward]

I meant "against", not "about".

Re:Google is out of their fucking minds

[Anonymous Coward]

Just like the 200+ comments on Hacker News [ycombinator.com], another news aggregation site with a very tech-savvy demo, you will have to look really hard to find anyone who supports the TPP.

THAT is a reason to oppose something? No, that's probably a reason to support it, that a gaggle of angry overgrown male teenagers still living in their parent's house demands to abolished using an average of five posts apiece.

Re: Google is out of their fucking minds

[Rakarra]

Arguably, ever since Lincoln, or at least since FDR and his (successful) threat to pack the SCOTUS with extra Justices in order to pass portions of his Great Society plan that were blatantly unconstitutional and over which the then-current SCOTUS/Justices in the majority were not willing to allow to pass judicial muster. The SCOTUS caved to FDR, or we might have 14 or more SCOTUS Justices today rather than 9.

Sortof. The "switch in time that saved nine" decision was written before FDR proposed his bill, though announced after its proposal and the President's fireside chat. FDR attempted to pack the court by proposing a bill that said the President could appoint a justice for every existing justice over the age of 70 -- so there would be 9 fixed seats, with an additional seat for every one of the nine which were currently over 70. So essentially as justices retired, the court would shrink back to 9, and as they got older, it would increase in size again. This bill was, technically legal because the US Constitution doesn't set a number of justices on the Courts. Was FDR successful? Yes and no. The specific legislation he proposed was roundly criticized by both parties and was obstructed (by a Democrat) in a Senate committee, and ultimately was defeated. The court packing failed, but Roosevelt ultimately achieved his aims, as one of the justices started voting to uphold some of the New Deal legislation ("The switch in time that saved nine" mentioned above), and within a few years enough justices had retired or died that Roosevelt was able to get his majority anyway.

Re: Google is out of their fucking minds

[BlueStrat]

Sortof. The "switch in time that saved nine" decision was written before FDR proposed his bill, though announced after its proposal and the President's fireside chat. FDR attempted to pack the court by proposing a bill that said the President could appoint a justice for every existing justice over the age of 70 -- so there would be 9 fixed seats, with an additional seat for every one of the nine which were currently over 70. So essentially as justices retired, the court would shrink back to 9, and as they got older, it would increase in size again. This bill was, technically legal because the US Constitution doesn't set a number of justices on the Courts. Was FDR successful? Yes and no. The specific legislation he proposed was roundly criticized by both parties and was obstructed (by a Democrat) in a Senate committee, and ultimately was defeated. The court packing failed, but Roosevelt ultimately achieved his aims, as one of the justices started voting to uphold some of the New Deal legislation ("The switch in time that saved nine" mentioned above), and within a few years enough justices had retired or died that Roosevelt was able to get his majority anyway.

Yes, quite right. I'm pleasantly surprised to see a knowledgeable, cogent, and civil reply that adds depth to the topic, as opposed to the type of posts seen too often here that either add nothing or are just flinging poo.

I know I wasn't going into any detail as it *was* a /. post after all (heheh!). Just trying for a short "sort of" that conveyed approximately what happened.

I appreciate the skill you've shown in being able to explain it so succinctly. I'm not a bad writer myself and still, I wasn't sure I'd avoid a wall-o-text in providing the amount of detail and context to the breadth & extent you've demonstrated here in as few words.

Bravo Sir (or Madam), bravo!

Strat

As a hard-core liberal I have to say...

[hyades1]

Google has been sucking President Obama's cock since the day he took office. Their people have visited the White House just about weekly since he started work.

President Obama, like President Clinton, is a hard-core right wing conservative masquerading as somebody who gives a fuck about anybody who doesn't pull down a $30 million per year salary. Hillary Clinton will be exactly the same.

Google is backing Obama, Clinton and the TPP because all of them are bought and paid for by people who want to put you in jail if your 10-year-old kid downloads a Disney song.

That's not hyperbole, by the way.

Re:As a hard-core liberal I have to say...

[Anonymous Coward]

who want to put you in jail if your 10-year-old kid downloads a Disney song.

No need for that. Being forced to listen to a Disney song is punishment enough on its own.

Re:As a hard-core liberal I have to say...

[Anonymous Coward]

I dunno, Obama's appearance on the Tonight Show recently makes him look like a fun enough sort of guy, outside of politics. Probably would be more fun to be aroudn than your funless, hyper-serious ass.

Re:As a hard-core liberal I have to say...

[DoofusOfDeath]

President Obama, like President Clinton, is a hard-core right wing conservative

Many of us who call ourselves "conservative" do not consider the term to imply mercantilism, corporatism, or a belief in the effectiveness of top-down economics.

It would be helpful in political discussions if the ideas weren't conflated.

Re:As a hard-core liberal I have to say...

[Anonymous Coward]

Is Hillary going to build a big wall?

Re:As a hard-core liberal I have to say...

[Ol Olsoc]

I dunno, Obama's appearance on the Tonight Show recently makes him look like a fun enough sort of guy, outside of politics. Probably would be more fun to be aroudn than your funless, hyper-serious ass.

And Dubya Bush is by all accounts a nice guy with a good sense of humor. I believe that.

The black and white world of castigation politics would have us believe both these guys torture puppies and eat newborn babies for breakfast.

Re:As a hard-core liberal I have to say...

[Ol Olsoc]

President Obama, like President Clinton, is a hard-core right wing conservative

Many of us who call ourselves "conservative" do not consider the term to imply mercantilism, corporatism, or a belief in the effectiveness of top-down economics.

It would be helpful in political discussions if the ideas weren't conflated.

It would help if people hadn't kidnapped the word conservative. I'm a Goldwater type conservative, which is much closer to the actual meaning, whereas today, it just means as long as you claim to be conservative, you can support a theocracy that demands rights over others rights, and socialism for your pet projects - and you hate chocolate people.

Re:As a hard-core liberal I have to say...

[Anonymous Coward]

You're a fucking idiot.

Re: As a hard-core liberal I have to say...

[Anonymous Coward]

She wanted one, until she changed her mind like with gay marriage, supporting the tpp, the reason she needed a private email server, ect.

https://youtu.be/AlFi0QUboxs

Re:As a hard-core liberal I have to say...

[hyades1]

Point taken.

Sadly, the "conservative" brand has been subsumed, for the most part, by people who are motivated by exactly those things, as well as fundamentalist-style religion. I have friends who, like you, are truly conservative. They are more than a little frustrated by this.

Re:As a hard-core liberal I have to say...

[hyades1]

Well said!

Re:As a hard-core liberal I have to say...

[hyades1]

Of course not. Anything that might serve to ease the downward pressure on the wages of legal workers would be anathema to her. For that matter, Trump has made extensive use of illegal, barely-paid workers in his hotels. The only way he'd build a wall is if there was already a tunnel under it.

Re:As a hard-core liberal I have to say...

[hyades1]

I wish I was allowed to up-mod comments connected to mine. You are so right about that.

Re: As a hard-core liberal I have to say...

[Anonymous Coward]

She's building one. Around the Wells Fargo Center in advance of the DNC. Keep the riff raff out.

What a coincidence...

[Mashiki]

Just after Google is apparently skewing search results for Clinton, they suddenly come out in support of a position that she's strongly in favor for. Just coincidence right? The number of coincidences going on with tech companies these days is just pretty amazing. There of course is another story on this with google saying it's true gov' we're not skewing anything. It's almost like when twitter started suspending non-feminists for objecting to the use of #killallmen, but feminists still use it to this day without any problems.

Re:What a coincidence...

[serviscope_minor]

Wow just about every post your write you manage to find something to complain about about feminists.

You are really obsessed and should probably get out more.

Re:What a coincidence...

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe you should try to get Slashdot to suspend him for objecting to the use of #killallmen. And then get him fired from his job, and find his house and break into it and murder him.

Because feminism.

Re:What a coincidence...

[serviscope_minor]

And then get him fired from his job, and find his house and break into it and murder him.

That sounds entirely reasonable.

BRB.

Re:What a coincidence...

[Mashiki]

Wow just about every post your write you manage to find something to complain about about feminists.

Really? Well my post history is public feel free to check. Seems to me you're more upset that people are being critical of feminism then actually dealing with the problems that are currently on-going with it. Or are you saying that #killallmen is okay? Would you be fine with #killallniggers?

You are really obsessed and should probably get out more.

Nice projection.

Re:What a coincidence...

[Mashiki]

That sounds entirely reasonable.

BRB.

It's reasonable for gawker, and threat'sand doxing are okay with feminists too. Along with getting people fired because reasons.

Re:What a coincidence...

[Mashiki]

He has a lot of time alone to sit and think about how angry women make him. He sees them having fun with other guys and quickly becomes enraged and starts finding ways that the 'feminist agenda' is keeping him down and lonely.

Nice projection. Too bad you couldn't post pseudo-anonymously or anything right? That's okay, I understand not wanting to be targeted for holding a contrary opinion. No, no. Don't worry, you're doing a fine job of show why so few women actually call themselves feminists, and why they have such a huge image problem. What? You don't understand? Oh it's called ideological blindness.

Funny how instead of actually sticking to something at hand it will always revolve around a couple of things: "They're lonely" or "they're a virgin." It almost seems to be their only response to any form of criticism is to DAVRO.

Re:What a coincidence...

[pablo_max]

It has long been understood that Google can, on their own, massively influence the outcome of any election.

Re:What a coincidence...

[serviscope_minor]

Well, all that proves is you're about as barking mad as he is. I take the piss about him being completely obsessed with feminists and you read that lot into it.

wow.

Re:What a coincidence...

[serviscope_minor]

Really?

Really.

Well my post history is public feel free to check.

Yep, still true.

Seems to me...

A lot of things seem to you, such as the need to bring up your least favourite things about feminism all the time no matter how irrelevant.

blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah

Quite.

Re:What a coincidence...

[serviscope_minor]

By the way, if you're trying to persuade someone of something it's best not to go full crazy and link all the nuttiest things you can find.

Re:What a coincidence...

[Mashiki]

By the way, if you're trying to persuade someone of something it's best not to go full crazy and link all the nuttiest things you can find.

Can't help it. That is the non crazy that modern feminists face out to the world. Right, you caught that didn't you? Modern feminism has basically boiled down to shirking harpies screwing about 1st world problems. Those names? Are also big names, either having been directly screwed over, are the ones spouting the garbage. You can turn your back on it all you want, but normies are seeing this insanity now and looking if not running away.

Re:What a coincidence...

[Mashiki]

So let's look? Roughly 104 posts out of 88k posts. Sure does seem like a lot doesn't it.

Well sometimes always seems like a lot when your ideological buddy is under attack isn't it? Oh you don't get it in the context of the story at hand, do you need me to explain it to you? Perhaps using small words and diagrams. I've got experience dealing with toddlers.

There there, take your pacifier and suck on it. Once you calm down we'll start again.

Now they deserve

[phantomfive]

Google now appropriately deserves to lose their Oracle case now.

Re:Now they deserve

[paskie]

No developer in the world deserves that Google loses to Oracle in the API lawsuit.

Re:Now they deserve

[Anonymous Coward]

Google now appropriately deserves to lose their Oracle case now.

You got it completely wrong. Now they will be SURE they are going to win the case.

Re:Now they deserve

[phantomfive]

Nah, if Google lost it wouldn't be so bad, because of the narrowness of the case. See for example.
Despite the hype stories, we'll still be able to use Java even if Oracle wins.

Apple & Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

"Google joins a list of other tech titans, like Apple and Microsoft, who have shown their support as well."

but everyone will post hate for the Goog while they trust their information to Windows.

Re: Apple & Microsoft

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah. Everyone loves Microsoft... Are you real?

Im pretty sure the party they mostly like...

[tlambert]

Im pretty sure the party they mostly like is the prohibition on countries demanding data for their citizens be stored in the respective country so that the local militarized police can go in and demand access to it at any time. A lot of the other things they are not so happy about, but are willing to swallow a lot of bad things in order to get that in as a binding provision. Most people don't want to have to be building data centers all over the planet which can then be seized the next time a local politician thinks it would be neat to own a supercomputer. They also want to be able to migrate and replicate data outside the country in question to avoid downtime.

Anti free trade?

[backslashdot]

Trump and Crazy Bernie want to put tariffs on trade. OK, so you slap a 40% tariff on Chinese goods. The price of everything goes up 40%, that means reduced sales of stuff. It means some retailers go out of business .. we lose jobs. And no, a 40% tariff isn't bringing back jobs to the US. We can't build factories over night even if it were possible and we would have to ban robots too. The price of things will go up by at least 40% probably more because the retailers will have reduced sales they will have to make up for the revenue shortfall.

Re:Anti free trade?

[Anonymous Coward]

No it means that people are going to find new sources to produce the products. If it's to expensive to outsource, well then they have to source locally. It's better to export than import.

Re:Anti free trade?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you scared? I'm scared. Let's not change anything, it's too..scary.

The fuck?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can't deserve to have a matter of law on an unrelated topic ruled a certain way based on unrelated behaviour by organisations that happen to be involved in both. That is stupid, and you should be embarrassed for having written it.

Re:The fuck?

[phantomfive]

You can't deserve to have a matter of law on an unrelated topic

Would it make you feel better if I said, "They deserve to have a comet smash into their Mountain View headquarters?" Cosmic justice knows no logic, do not presume to argue with the divinations of karma.

Don't be evil

[Anonymous Coward]

I hope karma bited them hard for this one

Make something the foreigners want

[backslashdot]

We are the most advanced nation on the planet and probably even the galaxy. how is it that we can't have a trade surplus against China .. Germany has one and they don't have any tariffs on Chinese goods and in fact Germans per capita buy more Chinese crap than Americans. China buys a lot of manufacturing equipment and high tech stuff from Germany .. so Germany actually has a trade surplus.

WE are ripping off China by buying stuff on credit and having a deficit with them what good are a bunch of I.O.Us to the Chinese? We need to sell them stuff they need to build their infrastructure .. if the Germans can figure it out why can't we?

Low tech jobs are never ever coming back. If you have no skill you are going to be useless in the future. A Chinese is taking your job now, but in 5 years it'll be a robot whose taking your job.

Re: Make something the foreigners want

[Anonymous Coward]

Germans are smart and hard working people. Americans are lazy fucks. It would never work here.

Re:Make something the foreigners want

[xonen]

Europe has import taxes on about anything, ranging from 10% to over 20%. In particular end-consumer products are taxed very high. On top of that comes sales tax etc, making a lot of things way more expensive than anywhere else in the world.

A recent example is the solar-panel industry. It was said china was 'dumping' solar panels. Read: the prices were dropping so it was getting very interesting for private persons to install solar installations on their roof top, even without any subsidy at all (as lot of countries used to do - European countries love high taxes just to spend it on subsidies again).
So, solar installation companies were flowering. Yet, European solar panel industry was having a hard time making a profit as China would undercut them.

Reaction of European politicians? Just add a 30% import tax on solar panels, just and only to protect a local and very marginal industry. At the cost of delaying and discouraging renewable energies.

So despite all talk and political intentions for more renewables, in practice they only discouraged it and money talks.

On topic. I actually think a better trade agreement between USA & Europe and other countries is a good thing. Just the secrecy and the smoke curtain that surrounds it now is bad. It should be a more public debate allowing more stakeholders to share their views.

Re:Make something the foreigners want

[Anonymous Coward]

Your first mistake was this: "We are the most advanced nation on the planet and probably even the galaxy.".

You're not.

Not even close.

The only thing you've got going for you is scale and a legacy of slave labour. You had it in the past with the blacks, and then poor immigrants, and you have it now with your draconian working environments.

The USA is the "middle class" between the Rich (Western Europe, Canada, OZ, NZ, JAPAN) and the Poor (everyone else).

Half your population can't even afford to go to the dentist ffs.

NOT 'google' BUT

[Anonymous Coward]

some person there who said that. Now, if it said everyone should go Korean and eat their pets, now there, that would be something to listen to.

Google will lose techies over this

[Anonymous Coward]

"Google is out of their fucking minds" for more reasons than one. Support of the TPP will cost them many of their best techies, since almost no techie who knows anything about the TPP supports it. Backing the TPP is something that only the money-focused beancounters and the morally bankrupt directors would do.

It's quite possible that losing their most ethical techies is exactly what they want though, leaving behind only the young and ethically clueless ones that are easily manipulated.

Re:Google will lose techies over this

[tom229]

What planet do you live on? "Techies" haven't used critical thought to form what they want out of the industry for at least a decade. This Apple generation cares not for freedom, design standards, competition, or long term health of the industry. It cares only for fashion accessories and emoticons.

How about...

[Anonymous Coward]

... all of them?

Doesn't need to be a revolution, but the current political guard are busily selling out and off their own citizens, and so they need replacing. There is also quite a bit of old boys networking going 'round, so a bit of forcing the issue might well be called for, but you can do that with sheer numbers and loud voices too. Still. So, get to it.

Re:How about...

[Anonymous Coward]

The USA tends to drag the rest of the world around. So shitcan it there and it's effectively gutted.

hullo everyone !!

[Anonymous Coward]

hullo everyone !!! how do i install windows 10 on my nokia 100 cellphonez ???

Toxic trade 'agreements'

[Anonymous Coward]

These 'agreements' are designed to create a 'race to the bottom', to deliver cheap labour, to lower employment rights, to extend the already crazy 'intellectual property' laws, to impose copyright maximalism, and to impose regulations that allow corporations to 'strip mine' the public sector for their own profit. There are no benefits for ordinary workers, or to any ordinary people. The term 'agreement' is also inappropriate, since they it looks like they will be imposed by fiat, without any democratic mandate, and without any debate.
This is called corporate totalitarianism, and like other forms of fascism, I don't find it acceptable in my country. The United States is the driver of these toxic agreements, and is as such, the primary enemy of workers throughout the world. I suggest a boycott, sanctions, and divestment to encourage the United States to change its ways. We can all play our part, simply by avoiding goods produced by American companies, wherever possible.

heck yeah they support TPP

[FudRucker]

google has all those chinese sweatshop made phones & tablets they want to keep flowing over here,

Feel The Bern? No, Feel The Johnson!

[Anonymous Coward]

That's really Gary Johnson's campaign slogan.

Toyotas made in Kentucky

[Anonymous Coward]

Toyotas made in Kentucky, Hondas made in Ohio, etc. etc.

Better than Fords being made in Mexico ...

RIP Google

[Anonymous Coward]

I see google has dropped the "don't" from its old motto of "don't be evil"

Re:RIP Google

[Anonymous Coward]

Google's new motto is "let's be fucking pussies, we don't want to be killed by the CIA"

TPP (and TTIP) read by who?

[Wowsers]

TPP and TTIP (Transatlantic Trade and Investment Partnership) were written by the corporations and US government, so they've read the "trade deal". Meanwhile in Europe, hardly any politician has read TTIP, it's guarded like a top secret military document, no copies exist "on the outside". So how are most of Europe's politicians, ESPECIALLY the UK, in favour of signing TTIP?

Sounds to me like politicians are being blackmailed, given kickbacks, or both by the US government or corporations, either in money, or directorships in US company subsidiaries once the European politician leaves office.

Re:TPP (and TTIP) read by who?

[manu0601]

So how are most of Europe's politicians, ESPECIALLY the UK, in favour of signing TTIP?

This is why imperialism is the smarter ay of dominating other countries: it corrupts politician minds, and nothing more is required.

So does Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

Great now I'm not sure who I'll get my next phone from since I want to boycott both apple and google now.

Re:So does Apple

[tom229]

Blackberry is still superior for actually getting anything done (as opposed to playing). It wouldn't surprise me if they supported TPP too though.

- Sent from my BlackBerry Classic, using a real keyboard.

Re:So does Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

There's always an alternative.

https://jolla.com/jolla/

The Apple Methodology

[tom229]

It's been interesting to watch the fall of Google. First they drop their "do no evil" motto, then all developers are told to use macbooks, and it's been a steady decline into doin things like Apple since. They've dropped open standards in favor of proprietary closed ones, they've abandoned the ideals of open source, and heavily adopted the walled garden philosophy. How quickly the Apple methodology has seeped into all American tech companies is really astonishing. I guess that's what happens when millions of mindless hipsters throw billions of dollars to the wind.

Do no evil. Pfffft!

[rholtzjr]

Seems even the once touted saying has lost all meaning to this company.

Okay, it is confirmed yet again that absolute power corrupts absolutely.

I can see what they would want out of it

[alangmead]

In Kent Walker's post, I can see what Google wants out of the deal: It prevents foreign governments to demanding servers and storage in their country and Google wants to keep them wherever they want to rather than where foreign nations demand them to. That isn't an issue that resonates with me.

He seems to think that I should be willing to abide by new additional copyright restrictions because they are offset by some fair use clarifications. I feel that copyright has encroached too far already and should be rolled back.

Finally he suggests the general public should have more participation next time negotiations like this occur, but doesn't say where they were this time when people wanted participation, or even access to what was being discussed? If they didn't help us participate this time why should the next time be different?

The post seems hollow and self-serving. I'm still convinced that the TPP is a bad idea.

Arguably...

[Anonymous Coward]

Since Washington marched at the head of a conscripted army to go stomp on the moonshiner rebellion. No taxation without representation... that lasted what, about 4-8 years?

I never knew the new Metal Gear game was so

[Anonymous Coward]

controversial!

Fuck Karma, Hillary was (is) backing this too!

[Whatsmynickname]

Fool me once, shame on Hillary
1980's-1992: Served on board of Walmart, union buster. Nobody there ever heard her support unions.
1990's-early 2000's Hillary: I support my husband's push for NAFTA
Democrat Party supporting Unions: This is (provably) not good for us
2007-2008 Election season Hillary: I think NAFTA was a bad idea and I oppose free trade with Columbia
2007-2008 Hillary supporters: Hillary is allowed to change her mind (sound familiar?)

Fool me twice, shame on me
2011: Emails show she LOBBIED Congress to push for free trade with Columbia, which passed!
2012-2014 Hillary: I'm fully behind the Trans Pacific Partnership (she said this publicly 45 times claiming this is the 'gold standard')
(NOTE AFTER SHE SAID NAFTA WAS BAD!)
Democrat Party supporting Unions: This is not good for us
Sanders said TPP was not good!
2015-2016 Election season Hillary: I'm (now) against the Trans Pacific Partnership

Re:Fuck Karma, Hillary was (is) backing this too!

[Agripa]

Our definition of a good politician is the same as everybody else's: once bought they stay bought and she cannot even do that right.

Copyright law is so out of whack

[Anonymous Coward]

that nobody pays attention to it anymore. Most people dont even realize that theyre breaking the law when they make copyright infringements.

Making it even more out of whack will only serve to further decrease our respect for it.

Shillary will be "pivoting" back toward TPP

[Ellis D. Tripp]

right on schedule in late July, as soon as the convention is over, and the threat that Bernie represents has been defused. Same for fracking, minimum wage increase, and the other issues that the Sanders campaign was able to force her to tilt leftward on in the primary.

Hopefully, enough "Bernie or Busters" will head over to Jill Stein that enough threat will remain to keep her from COMPLETELY selling the progressive wing of the party out, at least until she actually wins the presidency. At which point, prepare for 4/8 more years of Corporatocracy...

Re:Shillary will be "pivoting" back toward TPP

[Whatsmynickname]

Hillary provably flat out LIES on her position on trade agreements. If in election cycle, she's against them. If in office and election cycle is at least a year away, she's the biggest cheerleader for trade agreements. Google "Hillary Colombia Trade Agreement" (oh the irony of doing this) and read for yourself on her modus operandi. Here's an article which lays out her flat out lies.

It Really is the Trans-National Corporations

[BECoole]

who are the enemy of the people.

Now we know at least one Builderberg 2016 deal

[Anonymous Coward]

Wonder what kind of negotiations it took? Now I'm going to see TPP shilling news right next to the pro Hillary articles on Google+'s what's hot and Google now's suggested articles.

Sanders paid for by Google, MS, Apple, Amazon

[raymorris]

> Bernie Sanders was the only major candidate so far in my lifetime who wasn't bought and paid for by the corporations

According to his FEC filings, Sanders is paid for by Google, Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, and by the post office (tax money).
https://www.opensecrets.org/po...

Bernie also has quite a few illegal contributions:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/...

Clinton is paid for primarily by Wall Street. As I recall, 8 of her top 10 donors are investment firms.

Reality TV star Donald Trump has largely paid for his own campaign so far. He's spent less by making ridiculous statements to get free press.

Re:Sanders paid for by Google, MS, Apple, Amazon

[Anonymous Coward]

According to his FEC filings, Sanders is paid for by Google, Amazon, Apple, Microsoft, and by the post office (tax money).

Read the bottom:

This table lists the top donors to this candidate in 1989-2016. The organizations themselves did not donate, rather the money came from the organizations' PACs, their individual members or employees or owners, and those individuals' immediate families. Organization totals include subsidiaries and affiliates.

These are the employees donating, not the companies. Kind of a big difference, right?

Or maybe you're against the employees of any company donating to a candidate?

Of course they do.

[Anonymous Coward]

They always did. Google is used to the fullest possible extent to serve your data to the us government and european counterparts.

https://news.slashdot.org/story/16/03/06/1834211/eric-schmidt-gets-a-job-at-the-pentagon

Re:Of course they do.

[Anonymous Coward]

They always did. Google is used to the fullest possible extent to serve your data to the us government and european counterparts.

https://news.slashdot.org/story/16/03/06/1834211/eric-schmidt-gets-a-job-at-the-pentagon

It's not new at all, they try to hide it but a lot of people didn't forget.
eg. https://web.archive.org/web/20071031234348/http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5436679043214159173

With the assistance of a Jewish media monopoly they probably think they can pull it off without dying.

You're not gonna get a revolution

[rsilvergun]

so stop saying that. Vote Left. Vote for the most left leaning (e.g. pro working class) candidate you can get. And keep doing it. Work to shift the country and the world away from oligarchy in steps. It took us 40 years of trickle down economics and oligarchy to get to this point. You're not going to fix it overnight.

Guns won't work

[rsilvergun]

because a modern military would put down a rebellion in a second. And that's before you factor drones in. I've heard it's hard to get troops to fire on citizens. But from what I see all it takes is withholding food, shelter and medicine from their families and "better you than me" sets in. For the record, there has never been a successful violent revolution without the military and all of them ended with a system favorable to the new ruling class (including and especially the American one, where our entire system of gov't was built to keep the poor from voting themselves land).

You want to rebel? Vote Left. Vote for the most pro working class candidates you can get. While you're at it limit your reproduction (haha, /.ers don't have kids... ok.. get it out of your system) to two kids, preferable one. Fewer rats in the race. Make smaller, meaningful changes. This is what Prez Obama's been doing the last 8 years and it's had an effect. It took 40+ years of oligarchy to get us into this mess. Overnight solutions like Guns aren't gonna fix it.

Ew, didn't know that was there

[rsilvergun]

it's got nothing to do with privacy or supporting military states though. It's outsourcing. Expect to see a lot of good IT jobs that are left go off to India and the Philippines. Man I wish tech workers were such a bunch of smarthy asses. We're all convinced we're the one they can't replace. I hear it all the time from my coworkers who've been lucky enough to survive the various rounds of layoffs. I think it comes with the territory in IT. You talk to idiots all day. The dumbest of the dumb who can't open a spreadsheet by double clicking it. It's natural to think you're just smarter. It made us easy to outsource since we're either too proud or dumb to Unionize.

Re:Do no evil. Pfffft!

[Anonymous Coward]

DON'T BE EVIL
BUT SOME ACTIONS ARE LESS EVIL THAN OTHERS

After that it did not seem strange when the next day Google, who was data-mining the searches of all its users, began to fund unsavory senators. It did not seem strange to learn that Google was handing over its data analyses over to the NSA, and was advising Qatar, Uzbekistan, China, and Kenya on how to track its citizens.

Vote trump

[Joe_Dragon]

He is the only one left willing to stop this BS.

Re:Vote trump

[Anonymous Coward]

1. He probably won't, the strength of his conviction is virtually non-existent. Unlike Clinton, which changes her mind when it's politically opportune for her, Trump seems to change his mind at whim, if not randomly, and with high frequency - if he had made up his mind at all. Sometimes in interviews it sounds like he's stalling to try to think up a position, because he had not bothered to adopt one before.

2. He will promote such a stream of other BS that it might just stop this BS! I can't decide whether that's a good thing or a bad thing though.

Re:Vote trump

[Anonymous Coward]

Trump doesn't even know what his own position is. Remember he "reserves the right to change his mind", even on something he made major talking points at rallies.

Trump know absolutely nothing about foreign policy, national defense, or trade. Even Mitch McConnell, who's had quite a few one-on-one's with Trump recently, says so.

Trade Deals Are Great

[retroworks]

The shrillness of the anti-trade deal folks on the right and left try to make up in volume what they lack in economics. The USA lost nearly all of its textile jobs two decades ago, and the result was excellent. The textile unions had been unable to recruit younger people to work there, and people had to pay $65 for a pair of USA made blue jeans. Moving those jobs through NAFTA and other deals was uncomfortable for the people who lost those jobs, but 2 decades later it would not have mattered. Google supports TPP because they are intelligent and probably have seen the TED talks by Hans Rosling which pretty much demonstrate that everyone in the world has benefitted immensely from freer trade. https://www.ted.com/talks/hans... Most people on Slashdot agreed 15 years ago, it's strange to see this place go protectionist. Nationalism and protectionism suck.

Re:Trade Deals Are Great

[Anonymous Coward]

The shrillness of the anti-trade deal folks on the right and left try to make up in volume what they lack in economics. The USA lost nearly all of its textile jobs two decades ago, and the result was excellent. The textile unions had been unable to recruit younger people to work there, and people had to pay $65 for a pair of USA made blue jeans. Moving those jobs through NAFTA and other deals was uncomfortable for the people who lost those jobs, but 2 decades later it would not have mattered. Google supports TPP because they are intelligent and probably have seen the TED talks by Hans Rosling which pretty much demonstrate that everyone in the world has benefitted immensely from freer trade. https://www.ted.com/talks/hans... Most people on Slashdot agreed 15 years ago, it's strange to see this place go protectionist. Nationalism and protectionism suck.

Most people here aren't against free trade. They are against all the new IP laws added in the TPP which have nothing to do with free trade.

Re:Trade Deals Are Great

[Anonymous Coward]

You're assuming that the TPP is a free-trade deal in the classical sense, rather than a corporate/plutocratic wish list masquerading as a free-trade deal.

It's like if software EULAs were renamed to "User Bill of Rights." Hey, bills of rights are great, right? The shrillness of the anti-rights bill folks on the right and left try to make up in volume what they lack in freedoms.

Re

[Anonymous Coward]

Decently put. I'm in the same boat.

I was going to disagree with you about capitalism, but the wiki on free-market capitalism says that it includes some intervention where necessary to keep the market set by supply/demand (e.g. no monopolies). So it kind of depends on which definition of capitalism you go with.

Re:Re

[Ol Olsoc]

Decently put. I'm in the same boat.

I was going to disagree with you about capitalism, but the wiki on free-market capitalism says that it includes some intervention where necessary to keep the market set by supply/demand (e.g. no monopolies). So it kind of depends on which definition of capitalism you go with.

I actually like Capitalism. But it seriously has to be protected from itself, as do most idealistic concepts. Because it kills itself very quickly. A system based on greed - or better put, the concept of doing well for yourself will almost always shake out to the greediest, after they get ahead of others, wanting to alter the game so they make more, or in pathological cases, all of the money.

As for the definition of capitalism, it has been corrupted, and altogether too many politicians have bought into it. The old "class warfare" pejoratives that used to be trotted out any time someone complained about excesses were the highlight of the one sided supply side argument.

Somewhere along the line, we forgot that the best way to have producers become wealthy was to have people have the money to purchase their goods.

Maybe this is why there's been a push lately to not teach algebra in schools. THe idea that an equation has two sides is dangerous thought.

Whatever happened to

[yakumo.unr]

"Don't be evil"

? :(

The TPP isn't perfect...Then GET IT PERFECT FIRST!

[Chas]

Because, here in the US, we have a long, nasty history of implementing really shitty, terribly worded laws that cause endless suffering and hardship for people. And trying to get these shitty laws modified or (heavens forefend) revoked, is orders of magnitude less pleasant than having perfectly healthy teeth removed, sans anesthesia, via your urethra.

Do it RIGHT the first time or don't fucking do it! Because these asshats KNOW it's not going to be modified later. It's too much trouble to do so!

OMG, that is addorable!!

[pablo_max]

Seriously, that is so freaken cute that you think your government gives one single fuck what you write or think. They don't.
You think they give a single fuck if they are voted out? Why should they? They get their pay for life. They will always have a high paying job when they are out of office because of the favors that they sold to their corporate masters.
There are VERY few politicians who are willing to go against ruling class. Regardless of your letters.
No, your letter will make no difference at all. They system is too far gone. Too long corrupted. The checks and balances are gone. The people now fear the government and with good reason.
?Look at all the court rulings lately. Warrant needed for you bank card? Nope. Warrant needed to take your money? Nope. Criminal charges needed to take your money? Nope. It goes on and on.
Too long has the population sat on their collective asses while the power was consolidated. Too long were the masses so blinded by shiny gadgets that they would not look behind the curtain.
No fellow citizen, the time for letters has passed. It falls unfortunately to the young ones to get back on track. Most sadly, see nothing wrong with the current system.

Re:OMG, that is addorable!!

[MrKaos]

Seriously, that is so freaken cute that you think your government gives one single fuck what you write or think.

It doesn't matter what they think, all that matters is what you *do*.

Re:OMG, that is addorable!!

[Anonymous Coward]

They did when Eric Cantor lost his primary.

Maybe after God Emperor Trump paints the White House gold they'll get the message.

WHY THE FUCK

[Anonymous Coward]

Why did this article connect my browser to www.microsoft.com ?!?!

Adblock filter FTW
||microsoft.com^

66% from corporate, 34% from execs, employees

[raymorris]

> These are the employees donating, not the companies. Kind of a big difference, right?

Using Sander's largest listed contributor as an example, the corporation itself donated about twice as much of the PAC money than the executives and other employees. Most of the money, 2/3rds, is direct from the corporation.

> Or maybe you're against the employees of any company donating to a candidate?

I'm not against any legal donations, whether from one person or from a group of people. I find it rather strange that some people fall for the ridiculous argument that when people work together as a group they should lose their rights. Nobody believed that when it was Michael Moore's corporation, that was a desperate, last-ditch argument once when a group of conservatives made a movie too. Personally, I'm a supporter of the Electronic Frontier Foundation Inc. I think it's right that me and other like minded people can work together via the EFF.

Google:df cause suffering

[Anonymous Coward]

By systematically avoiding taxes across the globe, they cause low educational outcomes, poor hospital service, low law enforcement outcomes, diminish the welfare states ability to tide one through while seeking other work and of course found guilty of setting low wages in IT in USA & finned a pittance...

Motto. Be Evil.

Re: alphabet A 900913 bad equation + sherman act

[Anonymous Coward]

You need to take your medication.

Re:The TPP isn't perfect...Then GET IT PERFECT FIR

[Anonymous Coward]

Do it RIGHT the first time

Did you pay any attention in high school civics class? E.g., why is our national capital in Washington, DC? There's this thing called COMPROMISE which is frequently necessary when negotiating a complex, substantial political document.

Typical Slashdot basement dweller: "Why can't you just write some C code?" Sorry, the world is a lee-tul bit more complex than that.

Sorry, nope, your political compass is rusted

[Anonymous Coward]

NOTHING about Clinton or Obama is in ANY WAY "conservative"

Traditional "conservatives" of the East-of-the-Atlantic sort tend to be in favor of the Monarchy in whatever nation they are in - like the Tories in the UK. In THAT traditional sense, "liberals" were in favor of the individual as opposed to the Monarchy. In THAT classical sense, EVERYBODY in the US would be called a "classical liberal" from the time of its founding until the 1960s. In the 1960s, however, the political left in the US dropped their previous moniker of "progressive" (a name severely tainted by its "early 20th century progressive policies" that had been co-opted by the German NAZIs in the 1930s) and took-up the good-sounding label "liberal". As their "liberal" policies fed a rise in lots of stuff middle America disliked like big city crime and drugs and gangs and bankruptcies and weap foreign policies and disrespect for the military and flag burning, the traditional Americans took-up the opposing moniker "conservative" which worked well as they tried to preserve things they saw being attacked. This is why the labels seem opposite between the US and Europe and why "conservatives" in the UK and "conservatives" in the US sometimes seem sympatico on some issues (usually international matters like with Reagan and Thatcher) and then suddenly some issue comes up and they discover they are quite opposed to each other.

Conservatives, at their core, have a particular view of human nature as flawed and corruptible and thus fear large concentrations of power as enabling and tempting the flawed people who run them. True conservatives fear big government AND big corporations and oppose them when those concentrations are not absolutely necessary and want strict oversight of them in those cases (they support the military because it is necessary, and they want serious oversight of it in congress). It's only the crony capitalists of the Bush/Romney ilk (who use conservative social policies as camouflage to pretend to be conservatives in Republican primaries) who love big government and big business while calling themselves "Conservatives". Reagan, for example, was friendly to big business where he saw it benefitting the USA but was primarily a champion of "main street" and small business, while the Bushies as a contrary example were nearly as in-bed with Wall St as Obama is and happily bailed-out Wall St banks while doing NOTHING for "main street" banks.

Obama and the Clintons are deeply tied to huge businesses like Google and GE and Wall St Banks (both have taken more from Wall St investment bankers than any Republican in history). The uniting of big business with big government, and particularly big communications companies is TEXTBOOK fascism (not "internet fascism" which is a Godwin's law style insult thing). Actual TEXTBOOK fascism like the sort Benito Musolini founded in Italy and Hitler copied is a mutant form of socialism in which government has all the controls of socialism but with some of the dynamics of the private sector because it operates indirectly through the corporations. THAT is what Obamacare is and what its true predecessor "Hillarycare" was and THAT is what the Obama admin has been. It's very closely tied to crony capitalism where corporations get in bed with government. In the former case it is supposedly for the benefit of the masses (but just somehow never quite benefits the masses) and in the latter case it's supposedly for the joint benefit of the politicians and business leaders, usually benefitting the businesses in the short term (like Obamacare and the insurance companies) before becoming just more big government control of the public AND business.

TPP is supported by big multinational corporations AND by "establishment" politicians in BOTH parties (like Hillary who used to have a chapter of love for it in her book before chopping the chapter out of new copies for the 2016 campaign, and Paul Ryan who keeps trash-talking Trump) while being opposed by both lefties like Bernie and actual conservatives and TEA Partiers who baffled the press by supporting Trump over Cruz.

see what you did there?

[Anonymous Coward]

Business Insider and Mitch McConnell and Bloomberg are all huge supporters of TPP..... so it's actually humorous that you cite them attacking Trump and trying to convince people that Trump is wrong on TPP and people should either Pick Hillary (the only other choice unless the FBI gets further involved) or that Trump should/could/will change on this item that is so vital to all multinational megacorps.

Bloomberg reports TPP is being rejected

[WillAffleckUW]

Nobody likes it. Everyone hates it. TPP Overlords can go eat worms.