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Taking the Headphone Jack Off Phones Is User-Hostile and Stupid (theverge.com)

A WSJ report on Tuesday claimed that the next iPhone won't have the 3.5mm headphone port. A handful of smartphones such as LeEco's Le 2, Le 2 Pro, and Le Max 2 that have launched this year already don't have a headphone jack. The Verge's Nilay Patel has an opinion piece in which he argues that smartphone companies shouldn't ditch headphone ports as it helps no consumer. He lists six reasons:
1. Digital audio means DRM audio :Restricting audio output to a purely digital connection means that music publishers and streaming companies can start to insist on digital copyright enforcement mechanisms. We moved our video systems to HDMI and got HDCP, remember? Copyright enforcement technology never stops piracy and always hurts the people who most rely on legal fair use, but you can bet the music industry is going to start cracking down on "unauthorized" playback and recording devices anyway.2. Wireless headphones and speakers are fine, not great.
3. Dongles are stupid, especially when they require other dongles.
4. Ditching a deeply established standard will disproportionately impact accessibility.:The headphone jack might be less good on some metrics than Lightning or USB-C audio, but it is spectacularly better than anything else in the world at being accessible, enabling, open, and democratizing. A change that will cost every iPhone user at least $29 extra for a dongle (or more for new headphones) is not a change designed to benefit everyone.5. Making Android and iPhone headphones incompatible is incredibly arrogant and stupid.
6. No one is asking for this.

32 of 595 comments (clear)

  1. cost reduction by Lead+Butthead · · Score: 4, Insightful

    and they save a whole whopping nickel off each unit. move a few million units and it's easily 100k+.

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    1. Re:cost reduction by Chalnoth · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I don't think it has anything to do with cost reduction. If anything, it's probably about space/weight savings. For mobile phones, each millimeter and milligram make a difference.

    2. Re:cost reduction by Jarik+C-Bol · · Score: 5, Insightful

      No, its Apple, which means its about eventually making a phone that is just a sleek glass ovoid, with no surface buttons or ports.

      --
      I've decided to Diversify my Holdings. I've divided my cash between my left and right pockets, instead of all in one.
    3. Re:cost reduction by dgatwood · · Score: 3, Insightful

      ... probably disenfranchises some barely-measurable fraction of the market ...

      I think you'd be wrong about that number. I'd imagine at least a third of users use the headphone jack regularity, and that nearly all of them use it at least occasionally.

      And the bigger problem is that the ones who use it occasionally do so without having to think about it right now. In the future, every time that a user suddenly realizes that "Oops, I don't have my adapter; I can't do that" while they watch their Android-using friends just plug in effortlessly, they'll question their decision to buy an iPhone. The more times a user questions their decision, the less loyal they'll be when they replace that device. Even if it is only a very occasional pain point, the damage to the brand is still considerable for those users.

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    4. Re:cost reduction by perryizgr8 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      >they'd most likely include a lightening port to 3.5mm dongle

      No they won't! This is Apple. You'll pay 39.99 and buy it separately.

      --
      Wealth is the gift that keeps on giving.
    5. Re:cost reduction by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Someone who makes really waterproof devices here. Submersible for 5+ years waterproof, not just IP68.

      It's actually harder than people think to waterproof things. For example, rubber seals need compression. Phones are very thin and as we discovered with the iPhone bending problems not all that rigid. For your scheme to work the rubber would need to remain compressed for the life of the phone, in every phone. It's not impossible but it's hard to do without high failure rates.

      The ribbon cable would also be a problem. Rubber doesn't work too well with sharp edges, like the sides of the cable. Wiggling could damage the rubber (people yank on their headphones all the time) and again you would need a lot of pressure to overcome it. Also, most plastic is not entirely waterproof and moisture will eventually permeate it.

      That's why other manufacturers go for the rubber bung in the socket. Even then, they only rate the phone for 30 minutes under water... Being able to wash your phone is pretty awesome though.

      --
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    6. Re: cost reduction by datavirtue · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The smaller the phone, the shittier the battery.

      --
      I object to power without constructive purpose. --Spock
    7. Re: cost reduction by publiclurker · · Score: 3, Insightful

      and the more fragile the phone. Nothing more ridiculous than paying a premium for an extra thin phone and then wrapping it in a thick case so it will survive in the real world.

  2. Apple by Sir+Lurkalot · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Fuck Apple.

    1. Re:Apple by Falos · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Can you imagine the number of times the phrase "they'll buy it anyway" was spoken during all the stages involved?

  3. User-hostile and stupid by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Never stopped Apple before.

  4. Taking the Headphone Jack Off Phones Is User-Host by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The reason they're ditching the headphone jack is because the thickness of the jack assembly is getting in the way of their desire to make the phone thinner. I think they're ultimately shooting for having future phones as thin as credit cards.

  5. Vote with your wallet by Jack_the_Tripper · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So, just don't buy a phone without a headphone jack...how's that for democratizing?

  6. This is what passes for innovation by swb · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is what passes for innovation when you run out of actual innovation.

    Sure, the engineering is perhaps more elegant and you get rid of a few creaky parts like an amplifier and a jack, but what's the payback for that? If we're lucky a few extra mm^3 of battery? A device even thinner or smaller in some way, features most people don't want?

    But this is what passes for innovation when you don't have ideas, and somebody made the fucking spreadsheet work, indicating it would be some tiny percentage cheaper to build and there would be a short-term bonus in terms of selling dongles and new headphones.

    So really the only actual innovation is *financial* innovation -- squeezing a few more bucks out of end users and creating some licensing deals for "made for iPhone headphones" but not any innovation that anyone seriously thinks improves anything.

    And you can bet that the dongles will be ass-ugly lumps sticking out the bottom of the phone, just asking to break the jack. Maybe somebody 2 years from now will finally get the green light to produce an Apple-approved adapter that makes the phone slightly longer but has a separate lightning and headphone jacks. But you can bet it will be a long delay before they approve it so they can capture every damn dollar of dongle spending.

    1. Re:This is what passes for innovation by nfras · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If I had mod points I would mod you up.
      My phone contract expires in about 8 weeks. With a contract renewal I will get a new phone. I have a bunch of criteria that I have around what I need but being 1mm thinner than the previous model isn't on my list. With Apple having issues with bending phones with the last release I would be tempted to think that unless they make the whole phone bendable a thinner phone will simply mean a fragile phone.
      Removing the audio jack is design wank. A bunch of "creative types" has decided that they want a thinner, sleeker phone and that it would be cool not to have the audio jack. Marketing thinks it's great because they get to sell lots of Beats by Dr Dre headphones at vastly inflated prices. Customer think it's a con because they have wired headsets and are still smarting from having to replace their expensive Bose speakers because of the Lighting Connector. Change for the sake of change.

      --
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    2. Re:This is what passes for innovation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Spoken like someone who is either deaf or who hasn't ever used Bluetooth headphones. There's really no comparison unless you're in a noisy environment or just listening to speech.

      Also I don't want to have to fucking charge my headphones every few hours. Or press a sequence of buttons to re-pair them when I switch to a new device. Or waste phone battery powering a Bluetooth radio.

    3. Re:This is what passes for innovation by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I've actually had a phone without a headphone jack for a couple of years and can confirm this. I bought a "Pluggy Lock" that locks into the headphone socket and gives you a loop to attach a strap to. I have arthritis in my hands so the strap saves the phone from falling on the floor every now and then, but of course means I can't use the socket for headphones unless I remove it.

      It's a pain. I have a Bluetooth receiver for headphones (Sony) and the sound quality is okay for audio books but music sucks. Charging it is annoying too, especially as it can't go 8+ hours on a long flight. Occasionally I have to remove the Pluggy Lock for some reason, but at least I have the option. Unfortunately most good phones available in the west don't have strap loops any more, so I have to live with this.

      It would be 10x worse if the headphone socket was combined with the charging/data port. No strap, no charging and listening at the same time (essential on long flights).

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  7. just like ripping the dvd drive out of laptops by hsmith · · Score: 3, Insightful

    No one will care in a year.

    1. Re:just like ripping the dvd drive out of laptops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Except the reason no one cared about DVD drives going the way of the dodo was because the people who don't care about DVDs get their videos from the internet. Taking out an audio jack that, in one form or another, has been in use for the last 70 years won't fly the same way because there's nothing there to replace it realistically, Not without buying a dongle or changing your headphones, which is change for changes sake.

    2. Re:just like ripping the dvd drive out of laptops by unrtst · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Taking out an audio jack that, in one form or another, has been in use for the last 70 years won't fly the same way because there's nothing there to replace it realistically,

      I think the move is uncalled for and I dislike it, but most people I know that use headphones regularly with their phones tend to go through them fairly quickly.

      Don't most phones ship with a pair of headphones, including the iPhone? Won't they just ship with a pair of lightening earbuds, so there won't be any real pain in the upgrade except for those edge cases where people have some fancy extra expensive headphones, which are probably not earbuds, so having an extra dongle won't make all that much of a difference to those people.

      There's not much downside for Apple. They'll still sell phones; The phones will ship with earbuds to keep most happy enough; They'll also sell new beats headphones, which will start shipping with lightening connectors and probably include a lightening to 1/8" jack adapter for use on traditional equipment; They'll cut off the extremely cheap competitor market for headphones.
      Downside, they'll lose a smallish segment of people that were already considering on making their next upgrade an Android device.
      It's a gamble, but it'll probably net them more profit than not making the move.

  8. Don't even bother bitching about this. by geekmux · · Score: 1, Insightful

    So, the headphone jack is apparently the argument that finally brought forth the "No one is asking for this" argument?

    Hey consumers, where the fuck were you 172 pointless "upgrades" and $500 MSRP dollars ago?

    Don't even bother bitching about design changes now. The monopolies aren't listening anymore. Consumers lost the ability to provide feedback that would result in action long ago.

  9. Cost Increase...for customers by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ...and they save a whole whopping nickel off each unit.

    That's not the reason they are doing this. The 3.5mm jack is an open standard which anyone can easily use for free and just about any earphones will work with any phone. If each manufacturer can get away with replacing this with their own proprietary connector then now users will have to either purchase a dongle or a specially designed earphone where the phone manufacturer gets a cut because it uses their connector.

    So this is not about saving a 3p/5c per phone this is about making ten times as much, or more, per dongle or earphone purchased. Better yet if these are like Apple's lightning connector the lifespan of the connector is a lot less than that of the phone so they can sell multiple connectors per phone and make even more money. Call me cynical but I have yet to see any real benefit mentioned to the customer from ditching the standard 3.5mm jack, and certainly nothing like enough to offset the pain involved in carrying around multiple dongles so your earphones can work with your tablet, phone an laptop.

    1. Re:Cost Increase...for customers by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I find this scenario, even though it hasn't happened yet in Appleland oddly upsetting. On one hand I have some pretty high end headphone gear which requires wires and this pisses me off. On the other hand I never listen to music on my phone anyways because I fucking hate iTunes. I bought a Cowon portable music player (supports FLAC and has better sound quality than the iPhone). So in once sense I've already given up on the iPhone as a music platform. I shouldn't really be upset if Apple does this. OTOH something about it is infuriating. It feels like a slap in the face.

      If BT 5 can transmit uncompressed audio and it sounds good then I suppose I'm already used to buying expensive headphones I could go wireless. BT4 is a step down from wired options in quality. Maybe it matters maybe it doesn't. People will argue. My biggest gripe against wireless comes down to often in Apt, crowd, busy office, etc bluetooth devices get flakey, wireless transmissions get flakey because the frequency space is congested. The other issue is security. You're broadcasting everything whether you think the connection is secure or not. It's a possible exploit vector. I'll stick with wires and my iPhone 6. The current generation will last me a few more years at least. I'd like to say I'll just ditch the smartphone but that is harder than it seems for a few edge cases.

  10. Re:Taking the Headphone Jack Off Phones Is User-Ho by mark-t · · Score: 4, Insightful

    That's an admirable goal... but being as thin as a credit card means that it is equally likely to get broken. If your credit card cracks they will send you a replacement for free if you ask for one. Will Apple do likewise?

  11. It's the iMac and USB all over again. by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The same thing happened in 1998. Geeks everywhere told Apple to screw themselves for coming out with a 'proprietary' connector USB that no one else used. Forcing everyone to buy new mice and keyboards and ... oh the humanity.

    Not buying an Apple product? Why the hell do you care?

  12. Devil's Advocate by mentil · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Since everyone's hating on replacing 3.5mm jacks, I'm going to play devil's advocate.
    6 reasons that 3.5mm jacks will go the way of the 3.5" floppy drive:

    1) Analog audio cables need shielding from outside interference. Cheaper cabling is inadequately shielded. Digital signals are more resistant to minor interference.

    2) 3.5mm jacks are finicky. I've owned many extension cables with 3.5mm plugs that need fiddling with. If I don't rotate it just so, and plug it in at just the right depth, I get abnormally low volume, one of the channels won't work, or certain frequency ranges won't play.

    3) 3.5mm plugs aren't universal. There are ones with 1, 2, or even 3 rings, and the above problems are more prevalent if a plug is connected to a receptacle/adapter engineered to expect a different number of rings.

    4) Data sent through the 3.5mm jack is an unencrypted analog signal. This means it's vulnerable to side-channel attacks and surveillance. Someone could surveil/inject data going through the microphone channel (assuming the phone uses an analog microphone), or the headphone channel. A simple 'not' inserted into or removed from a sentence could cause substantial disruption to a target. Of course phone networks and smartphones are often surveillable in multiple ways, but not by everyone; also, phones are sometimes used as personal audio recorders, which may not be surveillable. An encrypted digital signal, with a handshake protocol but no master key (i.e. backdoor), could prevent these attacks.

    5) Phones tend to come with noisy/cheap amplifiers/DACs. This means that even if you plug in your $500 headphones you're going to get noise, and there's nothing you can do about it. Moving these components into the headphones means that phones can accommodate top-end audio. For some reason, smartphones have their cameras heavily scrutinized, yet their audio components are glossed over by reviewers and consumers. Go figure.

    6) 3.5mm jacks add cost and thickness to smartphones. This is the real reason (of course) why they're being ditched. Just like laptop makers are aiming for the thinnest laptops, phone makers want to make the thinnest smartphones. USB type C (which Thunderbolt 3 uses) has a height of ~2.6mm, meaning a full millimeter can be shaved off the device thickness. They could add a bump around the 3.5mm jack like they do for rear cameras, but I suspect that's considered ugly. there are 2mm audio jacks, but all the above problems remain, and people would still need an adapter or new headphones.

    The DRM issue is orthogonal to the encrypted digital signal issue. If an unencrypted MP3 file is sent over an encrypted interface, then who cares? The 'protected content being stolen via the analog hole' is the potential bogeyman, but it's not going to be an issue. Music is sold DRM-free today, and people are unlikely to start buying DRM-ed music in the future; it won't matter unless CDs go away, anyways. In the unlikely event the encryption protocol isn't cracked, it will only matter for content that is only available via streaming, which will probably be a minority of audio that people would care to preserve. Furthermore, just as you can buy (outside America) HDCP-compliant devices that decode the signal and then happily pass it on unencrypted, you'll be able to get the same for audio, if there's demand for it.

    --
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    1. Re:Devil's Advocate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Don't you hate people who play devil's advocate just to be a PITA? My responses to (what I consider mostly silly) arguments.

      1. Shielding - Never had any problems in any phone I've ever owned. If shielding is an issue in the "new & improved iphone", then add a damn 1/10th of a mm and put some shielding back in. I'll trade a bit of imaginary interference for bluetooth drops & pairing difficulties any day.

      2. Finicky jacks - this is perhaps one of only two points that I think has some credence. I've had a couple of finicky jacks myself but you know what--a quick squirt of contact cleaner solved the problem perfectly. Want to talk about finicky? Bluetooth pairing on some devices. You know what's even more finicky? When your BT headset battery starts to wear out and you can't replace it. Wired headsets have a much longer lifetime than BT headsets.

      3. Universal plugs - While it's true that there are variations of the 3.5 mm plug, I cannot remember a single time in the past 15 years a time when I plugged a 3.5 mm headset into an apple or android phone and it failed to work. I can remember plenty of times when I couldn't get bluetooth to pair.

      4. Unencrypted data - The second fair point. However, device manufacturers like square have started encrypting their data and this is only applicable to a tiny fraction of phone users.

      5. Cheap DAC - This may be true, but my wired headsets are unequivocally better audio quality than any of my bluetooth headsets.

      6. Thickness - I don't need a thinner phone. I want a phone with better batter life. Hell, increase the thickness and give me some more battery life.

      Net net--I will not upgrade to a phone that is missing a 3.5 mm headphone jack anytime soon. I am sure it will happen int he future, but not in my near future.

  13. Re:Taking the Headphone Jack Off Phones Is User-Ho by Stormwatch · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I think they're ultimately shooting for having future phones as thin as credit cards.

    And that's a very dumb goal. No one complains, "I wish my phone was thinner." People do complain, "I wish my phone had better battery life" and "I wish my phone's screen wouldn't break so easily."

  14. Trends in the Tech Industry by Etcetera · · Score: 4, Insightful

    6. No one is asking for this.

    No one asked for systemd either, but look what happened.

    Speaking more broadly, I honestly can't tell if this is because most of the major problems have been solved, people are too ignorant of the thought processes that went into the original tech, people don't know their history, people have too much faith in overly-complex technology that couldn't possible fail, people honestly, think they're just that much smarter than the installed base of users and want to increase "Quality of Life" (as one notable Borg put it), people want to make their own mark, or people are disingenuously trying to achieve lock-in on their newfangled contraption. No doubt, it's a mixture of all of the above.

    Speaking as someone who's only been around in the industry for 15 years or so, I've already seen this pattern repeat way too frequently. I can only imagine what people who've been writing COBOL for the past 40 years think of it all...

    Please, for the love of God, stop breaking sh*t that works fine.

  15. Re:A few comments by NormalVisual · · Score: 3, Insightful

    ALL audio on smart phones is digital. They could DRM the headphone jack fairly trivially if they wanted to.

    No, they couldn't. It's an analog signal at the jack, and a DRMed digital or scrambled analog signal would sound like noise through any traditional set of headphones.

    --
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  16. Re:Their customers aren't mindless by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    there are very specific reasons they want an iPhone. For one, they're a Veblen good. E.g. something you buy because you can. There are very real social advantages to Veblen goods. iMessage is practically a social network, which is another advantage. iTunes is highly desirable and iMusic is $5/mo if you're in college and mostly just works. Apple has an entire ecosystem that powers a social network. I resent buying my kid an iPhone every 2 1/2 years (they last about that long before they're falling apart). But I'm smart enough to recognize that, like it or not, it is a very real social advantage. That's fucked up. But with the amount of fucked up shit in this world it's one of the more minor instances...

    Yea, sure...

    Teach your kids to be vain and pretentious assholes, and look down on the lower classes because they can't afford to buy things that are no good and offer no real value, other than marking you as a pretentious asshole. Then they can grow up to be neurotic assholes like yourself, that are constantly worried about what other people think of them and where they fit into the vicious culture of bullying that you have created.

    Nobody in those circles are happy. They are all neurotically paranoid and on edge about what everybody thinks about them and how they are judged. And they make other people miserable by applying the same warped morality you demonstrate in your post.

    What there is very real value to, is being able to afford the things you actually need because you didn't blow all your money purchasing vacuous status symbols.

  17. Re:Taking the Headphone Jack Off Phones Is User-Ho by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They make cases that thicken your iPhone dramatically and give it a little bit more battery life. The problem with using external cases is that a battery requires a hard wall around it to protect it. This adds considerable volume. And an external battery, because it cannot share the phone's charge circuit, has to include all of that redundant circuitry as well. So you could double an iPhone's battery life internally by adding about 2mm of thickness, but a case that doubles the battery life adds about 8mm of thickness. That's fine if you were planning to use a case anyway, but if you weren't, then that's a lot of wasted space.

    To make matters worse, because of Apple's Lightning port licensing rules, unless you buy Apple's hunchback of Notre Dame case, AAFAIK, all of those external battery cases make your phone incompatible with lightning accessories. So if Apple ditches the headphone jack, those third-party battery case users won't have any way to connect their phones to any kind of wired audio output without removing the phones from their cases (thus eliminating the extra power boost, along with any protection that the cases might provide). That's a terrible user experience if ever I heard of one.

    Incidentally, that's yet another reason why removing the headphone jack is such a very bad idea.

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