Clinton Tech Plan Reads Like Silicon Valley Wish List (usatoday.com)

theodp writes from a report via USA Today: "If there was any lingering doubt as to tech's favored presidential candidate," writes USA Today's Jon Swartz, "Hillary Clinton put an end to that Tuesday with a tech plan that reads like a Silicon Valley wish list. It calls for connecting every U.S. household to high-speed internet by 2020, reducing regulatory barriers and supporting Net neutrality rules, [which ban internet providers from blocking or slowing content.] It proposes investments in computer science and engineering education ("engage the private sector and nonprofits to train up to 50,000 computer science teachers in the next decade"), expansion of 5G mobile data, making inexpensive Wi-Fi available at more airports and train stations, and attaching a green card to the diplomas of foreign-born students earning STEM degrees." dcblogs shares with us a report from Computerworld that specifically discusses Clinton's support of green cards for foreign students who earn STEM degrees: As president, Hillary Clinton will support automatic green cards, or permanent residency, for foreign students who earn advanced STEM degrees. Clinton, the presumptive Democratic presidential candidate, wants the U.S. to "staple" green cards on the diplomas of STEM (science, technology, engineering, math) masters and PhD graduates "from accredited institutions." Clinton outlined her plan in a broader tech policy agenda released today. Clinton's "staple" idea isn't new. It's what Mitt Romney, the GOP presidential candidate in 2012, supported. It has had bipartisan support in Congress. But the staple idea is controversial. Critics will say this provision will be hard to control, will foster age discrimination, and put pressure on IT wages.

Comments

Potentially more abuse prone than the H1B visa

[vivaoporto]

Potentially more abuse prone than the H1B visa. Diploma mills are already a reality in many parts of the world, adding a green card as an incentive and the potential for abuse is immense.

Re:Potentially more abuse prone than the H1B visa

[Fire_Wraith]

Yes, exactly. One of the biggest problems with the H-1B program isn't the fact that "there's more people here", it's that they're largely stuck on that particular job, with the threat of being sent home for good if they get fired, which means they'll put up with a lot of crap that normal workers wouldn't, even stuff that's supposed to be against the laws about working hours/conditions/etc. Even though they technically can move to another position with another company, it's far more difficult to do that on an H-1B than as a citizen or permanent resident, and if you get fired, you only have a very narrow window to find a new job before you get kicked out (something like 30 days).

Re:Potentially more abuse prone than the H1B visa

[netsavior]

People with green cards compete with American engineers on their level. People with H1Bs tend to undercut salary and/or bullshit tolerance level requirements of American citizens, by A LOT. H1Bs are A LOT worse for good engineers than green cards are. As far as citizens go: Good and bad engineers should be scared of H1Bs, but only bad engineers should be scared of green cards.

Surprised? Shouldn't be.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hillary and the various silicon valley billionaires are tight. They get her elected and she will try to implement their agenda. And make no mistake, their agenda involves more money for them, less privacy for you and more control over you.

Clintons Never Lie!

[Highdude702]

Because you can always believe what the Clinton's tell you right? I think we learned our lesson in the 90's with Bill. and i think Hillary is 100x worse about it. She is above the law(in her head anyways).

Easy solution

[sjbe]

Potentially more abuse prone than the H1B visa. Diploma mills are already a reality in many parts of the world, adding a green card as an incentive and the potential for abuse is immense.

So you limit it to select accredited universities. Problem solved. If someone can graduate from MIT with an engineering degree and wants to stay in the USA, we're idiots to not help them do that. It only becomes a problem if we don't pay any attention to how it's done.

Re:Easy solution

[khallow]

So you limit it to select accredited universities. Problem solved.

Accreditation has already been heavily compromised in order to suck up student loan money.

Re:Easy solution

[Karl Cocknozzle]

It only becomes a problem if we don't pay any attention to how it's done.

This idea is a non-starter. We already discourage students from pursuing STEM degrees by allowing companies like Facebook and Microsoft to import cheap labor in the form of H1-B visas--are we now to add a further disincentive by saying that anybody who can slither under the wire to get accepted to a U.S. university (and graduate) is now your permanent competition inside the United States? That's so self-destructive it's ridiculous. Policies like this are why the idiots in Britain voted to shoot their country (and themselves, directly) in the foot with a "Brexit" vote--because of the perception that their government serves "outsiders" ahead of them.

This policy would make that even more the case in the United States and might push even rational Americans to consider a Trump vote.

Re:Easy solution

[lgw]

to import cheap labor in the form of H1-B visas--are we now to add a further disincentive by saying that anybody who can slither under the wire to get accepted to a U.S. university (and graduate) is now your permanent competition inside the United States?

Seems like we see this same idiocy on every /. story related to immigration. Here's the thing: an immigrant has the same cost of living I do, the overseas guy doesn't. Every single developer who immigrates get paid more as a result. The average pay for the work increases with every immigrant.

Your competition has never been "workers in the US" in software development, but "workers in the world".

Re:Easy solution

[Karl Cocknozzle]

The average pay for the work increases with every immigrant.

Um, no. There's something called a saturation point, beyond which adding in more programmers drives down wages. This is nothing more than employers trying to rig the supply and demand equation and save a buck. Any crowing about "shortages" of skilled STEM talent are mostly B.S.--the problem is they won't raise wages to attract someone to the job, and would prefer the government allow them to import cheap H1-B labor, or saturate the market by granting permanent residency to anyone who goes gets a STEM degree here. Both practices dilute wages, because both practices allow employers to defy the laws of supply and demand--they want to monkey with the available supply of these workers to keep wages down.

Re:Easy solution

[SvnLyrBrto]

Seems like we see this same idiocy on every /. story related to immigration. Here's the thing: an immigrant has the same cost of living I do, the overseas guy doesn't. Every single developer who immigrates get paid more as a result. The average pay for the work increases with every immigrant.

I doubt that's the case with H1B immigrants who are locked into a specific sponsoring employer under pain of being kicked out of the country. It certainly is the case, though, with actual green card immigrants who, if they they are underpaid or otherwise unfairly treated, can jump ship for a new employer. So that would be my solution:

Eliminate H1B, and any other employer-restricted visas entirely. But for provably skilled and educated workers in the STEM fields, have a fast track program to get them permanent residency in short order. That way they can't be trapped by an abusive employer. And they'll be here, contributing to our economy, in the long-term rather than making a bit of money and taking it, and their skills, back overseas.

Re:The moon on a stick might as well be in the pla

[fustakrakich]

That's dumb as hell. All we have to do is stop reelecting them. Is that so difficult?

Promises like this are easy for Hillary

[JackieBrown]

She is amazingly quick to tailor promises based on who she is talking to. The tech community should be aware of this.

Some big examples would be gay marriage, TPA, patriot act, Iraq War, etc.

Yes, I know all politicians lie. I am just annoyed that people believe things that Hillary say means something.

On a tech site, we are cheering someone's tech platform whose tech level is so low that her defenders say we should not expect Hillary to be able to manage two separate email accounts.

Re:Promises like this are easy for Hillary

[Ogive17]

I cannot stand Hillary and will not vote for her or Trump.. however don't we want our elected representatives to echo the voice of the people?

It was relatively recent that a majority of Americans supported gay marriage.

I don't mind politicians who change their tone over time.. we all change our viewpoints throughout our lives. As I've grown older I have become more liberal (by American standards). I also do not care what a politicians personal belief is, I want to know how they would influence the law related to those issues. I would personally only approve of an abortion if there were life-threatening complications to the pregnancy... but I think everyone should make their own choice.

Re: AC's Tech Plan

[stealth_finger]

Slashdot doesn't post stories, users submit them.

Re: AC's Tech Plan

[Anonymous Coward]

The Orlando shooting was exploited to try and push anti-gun agendas that were already written. Every mass shooting in the US is exploited in that way. You can't use overseas violence to push an anti-gun agenda.

Re: Potentially more abuse prone than the H1B vis

[evilRhino]

It's definitely true that some of the Clinton policies did directly contribute to the crash of 2008, chief among these being the tax incentives for executive pay that drove unprecedented income inequality, the repeal of Glass-Steagall, NAFTA, etc. The response from the GOP hasn't exactly been a reversal of these policies. If anything, they were extended and pushed forward. Policies favoring large companies resulted in consolidation and profit/expense min-maxing, not investment or job growth.

Green Cards

[EndlessNameless]

Clinton... wants the U.S. to "staple" green cards on the diplomas of STEM... masters and PhD graduates

Good. We need to balance out the culture of ignorance that is developing in this country. The people who mock learning and expertise aren't moving the country forward now, and they never will.

Plus, if these people have real green cards, they cannot be abused and underpaid the same way H1Bs are. That should stabilize the labor market a bit, especially if the program ultimately leads to a reduction in H1B issuance.

If American citizens have no interest in education, go ahead and allow *real* immigration. As long as the immigrants integrate culturally, the country will come out stronger like it always has.

Re:DOESN'T ADDRESS THE REAL ISSUE

[Cinnamon Beige]

Our universities put lots of women through STEM majors. But when they graduate they go back to China, where they can build big things.

Or they don't give us many employment options outside of 'mad scientist,' 'evil overlord,' and 'teacher.' I'm currently teaching but I'm starting to think finding a project whose goal is to cause world peace (by killing everybody) may be more moral.

Keep the economic benefits here

[sjbe]

We already discourage students from pursuing STEM degrees by allowing companies like Facebook and Microsoft to import cheap labor in the form of H1-B visas

You do realize that there is a LOT more to STEM fields than working for large IT firms right? I have an engineering degree and I work in manufacturing. (and manufacturing in the US is alive and well in spite of claims to the contrary) Most scientists, engineers and mathematicians don't work in Silicon Valley or Seattle. H1B visas are simply Not A Thing among engineers in my industry. They just aren't. I'm not saying they aren't a problem (they are) but they aren't as wide spread or severe a problem as is sometimes claimed. Frankly H1B visas are kind of small potatoes in the challenges presented by global competition.

are we now to add a further disincentive by saying that anybody who can slither under the wire to get accepted to a U.S. university (and graduate) is now your permanent competition inside the United States?

If they work here in the US under a Green Card they aren't going to be paid H1B wages. The company can't deport them and the worker has basically the same rights as a US citizen. Furthermore they are your competition whether or not they are here in the US. Plenty of software and technology is developed outside the US and they don't stop being smart, talented people just because they don't work inside the US. It's actually to your benefit to have as much talent here in the US doing useful things as possible. If they go elsewhere much of their economic benefit goes with them. If there are a lot of smart talented people here then the pool of jobs here grows. If they go elsewhere then they don't create value here and there ends up being fewer jobs. America is a country of immigrants. We only hurt ourselves when we forget that fact.

Policies like this are why the idiots in Britain voted to shoot their country (and themselves, directly) in the foot with a "Brexit" vote--because of the perception that their government serves "outsiders" ahead of them.

Spare me. Many British voters voted for Brexit in large part because of racism and xenophobia. And frankly given Britian's colonial past them complaining about outsiders is hugely ironic. It wasn't that long ago that Britain was a large empire based on screwing over foreigners in places like India.

Representing constituents

[tepples]

She didn't support it, until it turned out that a lot of voters supported it, so in 2013 she changed her position and supported it. It speaks to principles. Hers are "say what's popular."

In government by the people and for the people, since when is listening to the constituents that you represent a bad idea in general?

How about a job

[rfengr]

How about attaching a JOB to diplomas of US CITIZENS who obtain STEM degrees?