Tesla Admits Defeat, Quietly Settles Model X Lawsuit Over Usability Problems (bgr.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from BGR: We can talk about how innovative Tesla is for days on end. Indeed, there's no disputing the fact that the company, in injecting a bit of Silicon Valley ingenuity into the tried and true auto design process, has completely turned the auto industry on its head. At the same time, Tesla helped kickstart the EV revolution, even causing traditional automakers like Porsche and BMW to start taking electric cars more seriously. But in Tesla's zeal to move extraordinarily quickly, problems have inevitably begun to creep in. Specifically, quality control issues still seem to be plaguing the Model X. According to a recent report, avowed Tesla fan named Barrett Lyon recently returned his Model X and filed a lawsuit against Tesla arguing that the Model X was "rushed" and released before it was ready for sale. Now comes word that Tesla has since quietly settled the lawsuit. "In Lyon's lawsuit," Fortune writes, "he claimed the cars doors opened and closed unpredictably, smashing into his wife and other cars, and that the Model X's Auto-Pilot feature posed a danger in the rain. He also shared a video that shows the car's self-parking feature failing to operate successfully." Tesla's response: "We are committed to providing an outstanding customer experience throughout ownership. As a principle, we are always willing to buy back a car in the rare event that a customer isn't completely happy. Today, the majority of Model X owners are loving their cars."

Comments

Shitty refund policy

[mewsenews]

Sounds like the guy had to file a lawsuit to attain or expedite a refund, which sucks.

Notice the weasel language from the rep: "we'd be happy to buy back any unsatisfactory vehicles", not refund. Have to wonder if that means they will only refund market value of a used car.

Re:Shitty refund policy

[LordKronos]

If you could return the car brand new in the shinkwrap, never used, then perhaps a refund might make sense. But cars suffer wear and tear. The guy could have driven over a series of speed bumps at 30-40 miles an hour, doing significant damage that maynot yet be evident under a typical inspection. Plus already having an owner on the title affects value, and possibly even the next owner's ability to finance it as new rather than used. I don't think it's reasonable to expect a full refund, but I agree that "buy buy" is probably pretty misleading for the vast majority of customer.

Also, the reason he had to file the lawsuit is that he probably did want a full refund, rather than the buy back which surely was in the contract he signed (we can't go understanding what we signed, now can we).

Also, interesting thing about the guy's auto-park-fail video. First, he never shows us what's inside the garage, so who know what might be obstructing the cars path. 2nd, you notice the car stops it's autopark the very second that his motion sensitive garage light turns on. That seems like a very interesting coincidence.

Re:Shitty refund policy

[stabiesoft]

Given the car had issues almost immediately, lemon law basically says full refund. A minuscule amount would be deducted for miles driven before the FIRST problem was reported. The guy had no ax to grind, he owned a roadster and an S. Tesla was just stupid not to deal with this when he first asked. But then they have had a couple of braindead PR moments.

Re:Shitty refund policy

[swb]

If you could return the car brand new in the shinkwrap, never used, then perhaps a refund might make sense.

And how exactly will you know the car has problems if you basically need to have it trailered to a climate controlled storage facility in order to get a refund?

The whole "depreciation once you drive it off the lot" mindset is kind of a self-perpetuating myth that seems to have nothing to do with the actual material value of a car. I've bought used cars with 20k miles on them that were indistinguishable from new cars cosmetically and in every way practically measurable without disassembly, in-depth chemical analysis or the use of a microscope and they were good for the next 110,000 miles (and going strong).

I think the depreciation off the lot concept is a real economic phenomenon -- I've seen $110,000 cars mechanically perfect and guaranteed bumper-to-bumper for 3 years with 5500 miles on the odometer selling for $55,000. Yet it seems un-economic that somehow nearly half the value of the new car is lost somehow. Just who is absorbing that? Even assuming a 20% markup on the new car, *someone* is walking away from $40,000 after two months? Who, exactly, is eating a $40,000 real loss on this?

My guess is that the depreciation concept is a financial gimmick that somebody (lenders, car dealers, car manufacturers, etc) is making money on by turning phantom material depreciation into tax deductions or some other non-real loss that becomes a financial gain.

As a principle? What about in practice?

[bobbied]

So "As a principle, we are always willing to buy back a car...[when]... a customer isn't completely happy"

So much for principle if in practice somebody had to sue you to make you do it..

Re: As a principle? What about in practice?

[Anonymous Coward]

FTFY: The 100% refund that lemon laws require.

How's that again?

[93 Escort Wagon]

... doors opened and closed unpredictably, smashing into his wife and other cars ...

The dude is married to a car?

I've heard of My Mother the Car , but this is a first.

Re:How's that again?

[Anonymous Coward]

... says the 93 Escort Wagon!

Tesla is still an exotic car company.

[LWATCDR]

Exotic cars are bought by enthusiasts and they forgive problems that your average Honda buyer will not. The Model X and 3 are now going into the hands of none enthusiasts and even Consumer Reports has taken away it's recommend from the Tesla.
Surprise, making cars is hard.

Re:Tesla is still an exotic car company.

[Anonymous Coward]

The Model X and 3 are now going into the hands of none enthusiasts

The 3, sure (excepting the "now" part on that), but I'm not sure anyone who'll drop a hundred grand - on one of the first batch of the first SUV from a manufacturer on its second mass-produced car model ever, no less - counts as a non-enthusiast.

Re: Tesla is still an exotic car company.

[fermion]

That your average Mercedes buyer will not forgive.

Anyone who owns a Honda ex-eats to make sacrifices for a cheap car.

Innovation does not excuse a crappy product. There is no way that a death trap seat is the result of innovation. It is the incompetence and arrogance of an inexperienced agent thinking they can make a car. Sort of like MS in security in the 1990's. Not being able to write software for doors in incompetence in embedded systems. Writing consumer embedded code is different from web server ode where it can be updated every day or rocket ship code where you have great control over the use case. There appears to be little engenuety here, just standard feature bloat.

In any case, as much hate dealers, this problem is a result of lack of reputable dealers. Like trying to solve a problem on a website, you have no ability to take someone that has a direct line to the manufacturer.

Re:Tesla is still an exotic car company.

[hey!]

Well, I thought the door thing was overkill; as an engineer it struck me as a "neat" demo feature but a real potential PITA, and it turns out I was right.

Re:Tesla is still an exotic car company.

[Shompol]

Just watched the demo. How did he manage to hit his "wife and other cars" with those doors is beyond me. It opens slowly and goes mostly up. Sounds like a bullshit case and a smear campaign.

Re:Tesla is still an exotic car company.

[AmiMoJo]

The front driver's side door has an auto-open feature when you come near it holding the key. The rear doors can be opened remotely or via the console in the car. There are supposed to be sensors that stop them bumping into things, but a few people have said on the forums that they don't always work.

It's the same with summon. There are sensors on the car, but there are also videos on YouTube of it running over stuffed animals standing in for children. Of course you are supposed to be paying attention yourself when using summon. The problem is that Tesla tends to hype features up and send them out as software updates, and then people use them without really reading TFM.

Re: Tesla is still an exotic car company.

[LWATCDR]

You may be surprised just how much less reliable a Mercedes S class or BMW 7 series is than you average Honda is.

Re: Tesla is still an exotic car company.

[deadweight]

No I wouldn't. I have had 2 Mercedes, one BMW, one Porsche, and 2 VWs. "Owner Financed Development" was something I learned about the hard way. The modern 7 series and their ilk are cars you NEVER NEVER EVER want to own out of warranty.

Come on

[Anonymous Coward]

He's totally gonna colonize Mars and stuff. Sure, airlocks will open, food won't dispense, but the species, this rock, exploration, etc etc etc

dealer miles; test drive miles

[Archfeld]

I totally agree, especially in the light of the fact that a dealer can drive your 'new' car around for several hundred miles with no 'depreciation', but the instant the purchaser drives away the car is suddenly worth less ? If there was any real basis for that issue I'd demand a car with ZERO miles on it.

Re:dealer miles; test drive miles

[swb]

I'm inclined to believe there's some real psychological value to a "new" car with very few miles on it, like maybe 5% of the cost of the car but I think that number has been declining over time as cars have become more reliable and durable.

If anything, cars with no diagnosable problems and something like 5-10,000 miles ought to be MORE valuable than a "new" car. They're still new from a wear and tear and lifespan perspective, but have been largely demonstrated to be free of faulty components and assembly and have more proven reliability than a car from the factory with 3/10 of a mile on the odometer.

Re:dealer miles; test drive miles

[someoneOtherThanMe]

but have been largely demonstrated to be free of faulty components and assembly and have more proven reliability than a car from the factory with 3/10 of a mile on the odometer.

As a buyer, you do not know that.

Also, as a used car buyer, you lose the ability to pick color, any extras, maybe even the engine is not the one you would have chosen yourself.