Slashdot Mirror
Man Who Teaches People How To Repair Their MacBooks Alludes To Apple Lawsuit (gamerevolution.com)
New submitter alzoron writes: After the failure of New York's Fair Repair Act, independent third-party unauthorized Apple repair shops seem to be under attack. Louis Rossmann, owner of Rossman Repair Group, INC has uploaded a somewhat vague video alluding to his Youtube site, where he posts videos about repairing out of warranty repairs, possibly being shut down. Several sources (Reddit, Mac Kung Fu, 9to5Mac) have been speculating about this and whether or not Apple is behind this. Game Revolution reported on the video (Link is to cache version of the site since the report has since been removed), breaking down each section of the video. 6:52: Louis informs viewers that they can download YouTube videos. 7:41: Louis mentions that YouTube channels have a "finite lifespan," often because a large corporation has the power and money to shut them down. 8:42: Louis shares that he's happy when he's lived a difficult life so that he can be strong for the immense challenge that is ahead. 10:06: Louis shares that he is going to have to fight from his point onward. 11:22: Louis states that all his videos may soon be gone. 11:32: Louis mentions that his business may disappear. Given what Louis has mentioned, it's apparent that Louis has been threatened by Apple likely for condemning its policies to a growing subscriber base, but also for showing users how to repair its hardware without going through Apple support.
UPDATE 7/1/16: The headline has been updated to clarify that the lawsuit is unconfirmed. We'll continue to update the story as it develops.
UPDATE 7/1/16: The headline has been updated to clarify that the lawsuit is unconfirmed. We'll continue to update the story as it develops.
This guy has a massive pariah complex, and great job feeding it, slashdot.
It appears the guy is using Apple-copyrighted schematics. If he wants his youtube videos to stay up it's really simple to just not put them in the video. Just draw your own representation of the part of the circuit you are working on and put that up.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
Self-promoter promotes himself with vague claims. Also, you're supposed to be mad at Apple because someone -- possibly a lawyer who wants to file a class action lawsuit -- has figured out a way to personally benefit if enough people are mad at Apple.
6:52: Jesus informs viewers that they can download YouTube videos.
7:41: Jesus mentions that YouTube channels have a "finite lifespan,"
8:42: Jesus shares that he's happy when he's lived a difficult life so that he can be strong for the immense challenge that is ahead.
10:06: Jesus shares that he is going to have to fight from his point onward.
11:22: Jesus states that all his videos may soon be gone.
11:32: Jesus mentions that his business may disappear
For Apple conspiring to make repairs as much as a new device.
Louis Rossman.
fifth sigma, inc.
There is *speculation* that takedowns are coming from Apple, but no actual evidence and generally speaking DMCA notices have names (at least of a law firm) attached. As news sources go, Reddit forums rank right up there with the National Enquirer. There are plenty of legitimate reasons to bash Apple: political censorship, slumping software quality, etc. No need to invent fake ones.
Help save the critically endangered Blue Iguana
This guy is a modern hero. He works extremely hard to make the world a better place. He's well-spoken, selfless, and kind. I'm glad people like Louis Rossmann are out there in the world, doing what they do.
He reminds me a bit of Mister Rogers. Someone who you can look to and say: "This is how all people should be. This is how all people should act." And then smile.
Thanks for helping us out, Louis. I hope we can find some ways to help you out, too. Remember, don't be hesitant to take help from people. There are a lot of us in your court.
fifth sigma, inc.
The Clayton Act made both substantive and procedural modifications to federal antitrust law. Substantively, the act seeks to capture anticompetitive practices in their incipiency by prohibiting particular types of conduct, not deemed in the best interest of a competitive market. There are 4 sections of the bill that proposed substantive changes in the antitrust laws by way of supplementing the Sherman Antitrust Act of 1890. In those sections, the Act thoroughly discusses the following four principles of economic trade and business:
price discrimination between different purchasers if such a discrimination substantially lessens competition or tends to create a monopoly in any line of commerce (Act Section 2, codified at 15 U.S.C. 13);
sales on the condition that (A) the buyer or lessee not deal with the competitors of the seller or lessor ("exclusive dealings") or (B) the buyer also purchase another different product ("tying") but only when these acts substantially lessen competition (Act Section 3, codified at 15 U.S.C. 14);
mergers and acquisitions where the effect may substantially lessen competition (Act Section 7, codified at 15 U.S.C. 18) or where the voting securities and assets threshold is met (Act Section 7a, codified at 15 U.S.C. 18a);
any person from being a director of two or more competing corporations, if those corporations would violate the anti-trust criteria by merging (Act Section 8; codified 1200 at 15 U.S.C. 19).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Specifically product trying (Act Section 3, codified at 15 U.S.C. 14).
Apple has been tying its products together for years:
Really the FTC needs to step in and annihilate this behavior, if they can't play fairly, then they don't deserve to play at all.
Guy is a whiner. Every one of his videos is bitching about Apple. Then this one is a vaguebook "I can't say too much, woe is me I had a hard life" garbage. He did fuck up by showing the schematics on video and talking about them endlessly.
/., surprise!
But this guy has been gaming Reddit for "viral" content and look here how he now is on
No, the "weld the hood shut" approach coupled with the snobbery dickishness of their design and marketing teams about their products puts me off even accepting a free idevice, let alone buying one. I would join this man in feeling joy in repairing them for other people, simply because it is disruptive to those pretentious fucks in cupertino.
Joining those picks in denialism about the quality of the products does not earn any brownie points, ac.
Several class action lawsuits and Apple's own free repair program that they've extended once again to the end of this year seems to support that it's more than just a fictional problem. Of course them replacing defective parts with other defective parts doesn't help their image much.
I suppose I should rejoice at error 53, GPU failures with no extended warranty, and touch IC flaws. Thank you for creating a device where the touchIC becomes desoldered from the board right outside of warranty. God bless your souls!!!
No, man. When something isn't the way it should be, you say something about it.
I would say the title could have used some work... it's jumping to a conclusion.
what I find particularly amusing is that in 2013-2014 they finally figured it out. 2015-2016 machines use almost the same designs but the fans don't spin up for an additional 10-20c over the older models... WHY!!! :(
Well, Apple might as well just shut up shop now. Random Internet guy is gonna stop buying their products. Apple better be quick to make a press release to try contain the near-irreparable damage that your post to Slashdot is going to do to their bottom-line and stock price.
This guy has a massive pariah complex
I've always wanted to live in one of those!
systemd is Roko's Basilisk.
Education and commentary is a fair use exception to copyright. He was clearly using them for educational purposes and commentary and therefore they are almost certainly fair use.
I would say if this is does not constitute educational fair use than I do not know what is. You can only see tiny snippets, you are missing all of the information required to actually design this product.
I'm done. Slashdot is an avenue of pure hate on anything other than what the editors approve. The Apple hate is pathetic.
This article was complete and utter garbage. No wonder their page ranking has dropped so much as they keep losing their audience.
I remember the good old days with Cmdr Taco. This would never have been tolerated.
I don't see why this is "front page news" at this point. The video is all innuento. No facts. Nothing concrete. Nothing corroborated. There is no news story!
It appears the guy is using Apple-copyrighted schematics.
IF that's their beef, then I hope Rossman takes them to task for it.
Board schematics are a factual description of a physical object. Factual information cannot be copyrighted; 1st amendment issue. You can patent the board, but that doesn't allow you to prevent dissemination of facts..
Except, the case he makes probably better be that they are non-copyrightable..... Because in past videos he has mentioned obtaining the schematics from illegal Romanian FTP servers.
If the copy of the work you possessed before 'using' it was illegal in the first place, and used the work for commercial gain, then fair use defense will be hard.
If he gets challenged on the use of dodgy schematics in his own repair jobs, and that's not defensible, then he could face Disgorgement of every $$$ he ever earned from repairs after he obtained those .....
"Board schematics are a factual description of a physical object."
You've obviously not dealt with electronics much. If it was just a netlist, I might agree, but drawing good schematics is an art requiring skill.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Louis forgot to take his meds.
How does making hardware that lasts longer sell more units? That doesn't even begin to make sense.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
You can't touch this!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Usage of copyrighted Repair manuals can constitute fair use. Though Apple will force a court hearing to mount such a defense.
http://www.internetlibrary.com...
Actually - Ford/Chevy/Chrysler do exactly the same thing Apple (may be) doing: they jealously guard the copyright on their official repair schematics. Car repair shops pay a LOT of money to get them... and they are regularly traded illegally online.
If someone had a Youtube channel where they were showing copyright infringing schematics of Ford/Chevy/Chrysler cars the way this guy did for Apple computer schematics... they would be ALL OVER IT trying to shut it down.
Apple doesn't care if you tell people how to fix their computers... just don't spread Apple copyrighted material around to do it...
Fair use, he doesn't make the them available in whole, and the videos are educational in nature.
Yeah, I heard that, too.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
We ain't that far from this. Have you tried doing any kind of work on a recent model? Good luck, without the necessary software you MIGHT be able to change the oil, provided that's not somehow hardwired into the board computer yet to limit you to 30 mph "for your safety" 'til you go to an authorized dealer and pay him to convince it that the oil was indeed changed.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
There is likely an anti-trust defense available here though. It may also be hard for Apple to prove damages, or the legal relation between the infringement and the profits from repair, as reversed schematics (which are entirely legal) from other sources would have worked just as well. My guess is that statutory damages per manual would be used anyways. Apple doesn't want the money, they just want to ruin independent repair shops.
Doesn't matter if it requires skill, what matters weather it is a a factual or creative expression.
Whoosh. That's a non-sequitur. Skill implies creative expression, which any decent schematic demonstrates.
Contrast a clear, easily understood schematic with one with the components randomly distributed and ratsnest of interconnections.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
YANAL, and you have misinterpreted the distinction between facts that cannot be copyrighted, and a particular representation of facts that can be copyrighted.
For instance, I can open the phonebook and copy the entries into a separate database and sell it, because the phone numbers themselves are facts that are not covered by copyright, see [1]. But I could not photocopy an entire page of the phonebook and sell it elsewhere without permission. Similarly, I can take the same ingredients/methods in a recipe book and republish those recipes, see [2]. But I cannot simply photocopy the recipe book and sell it as my own. To quote [2] at length (my emphasis):
So the question here is did the defendant copy the schematics verbatim or he did he read the schematics and produce a different form of the same factual information separately? Until you answer that question, you cannot reach the question of whether he violated Apple's copyright in the schematic.
[ And, FWIW, I haven't seen the schematics he posted versus the originals, so I can't answer that question and take a side. ]
Further Reading:
[1] Feist Publications, Inc. v. Rural Tel. Serv. Co., 499 U.S. 340, 347 (1991)
[2] Publications International v Meredith Corp., 88 F.3d 473 (7th Cir., 1996)
car manufacturers do the same BS in that independent repair shops have to get software and manuals form iffy places as they can't buy them.
Clarity is a functional requirement, So clear vs. not clear can't be grounds for copyright-ability. To count as a creative work, it must be improbable that someone else would independently make an identical work. It is not unreasonable to assume that in some areas two skilled people has some significant probability of ending up with the same result.
Error 53 is because of crappy repair places that, when replacing a cracked screen, replace the entire front assembly (which the Home button with the TouchID sensor is attached to) because it's faster and easier, rather than moving the existing Home button to the new front assembly like they should.
And then, because the original TouchID sensor inside the Home button is cryptographically paired to the CPU's secure enclave but the "new" one is not, the operating system gives Error 53 and refuses to boot to make it hard for people to break into your phone with a compromised TouchID sensor.
The solution is not to go to shitty repair places that don't do the job right. And if you *did* go to a shitty repair shop, the Apple Store will pair your "new" TouchID sensor to the CPU's secure enclave for you so that it'll work again. Or, plug your iPhone into your computer, and iTunes can disable the check (though this obviously makes your device less secure).
"To count as a creative work, it must be improbable that someone else would independently make an identical work."
So, you agree that good schematics are creative. Why didn't you simply agree in the first place?
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
A "bad " novel is just as eligible for copyright protection as a good one. Skill does not make the resulting work eligible for copyright. I don't categorically agree or disagree, a specific schematic may or may not count as a creative work in the definition. Put the ten best novelist in the world and ask them to write a book with 22 specific plot points, you have zero chance of any two books being the same. If you ask the 10 best schematic drafters to draw a circuit with 22 components, I would bet there is more than a zero chance that two would be the same, (and this is the level at which Louis shows the schematics). If you are diagramming something with 350 components, and 15-20 sub-circuts (depending on how you want to divide them), then that final tangible collection certainly is eligible for copyright protection.
It is an expression of them.
You cannot prevent distribution of the facts. That's why I said he should make his own representation of the facts and distribute that.
But you don't have a clear cut right to redistribute someone else's copyrighted expression of the information.
I've seen his videos, he only shows a small section of the schematic. He should just redraw that section himself and use that in his video. It's easy.
http://lkml.org/lkml/2005/8/20/95
He did this imminent threat routine just last September/October with Yelp, putting warnings all over his videos about the threat of them being taken down.
Probably gets a lot of traffic.
I suspect your question isn't serious, but the way it works is the pyramid of technology distribution. Older technology that's still working gets passed down to others who are less savvy, who then become customers of your brand. Free stuff handout marketing that doesn't cost your company anything? Yeah, that's not a bad thing.
I guess its all well and good to hate on everything, except your guys right?
Failure rates weren't high enough to drive future sales.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Watch a few of his videos; they're not good schematics.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Illegally obtained copies of vehicle repair manuals are fair use when the manufacturer does not make them available to the end user through legal channels; this is no different.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Bendgate
Piss off, "freeman".
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
What's interesting is that, because the car makers often make the manuals unavailable, or only available under onerous terms or fees, the possession and use of an illicit copy of such a manual in the course of a repair has been legislated to be fair use. Because possession of the manual is fair use, any other fair use of the material is also defensible; for example, education, criticism, commentary, or parody. It's still technically illegal to distribute the manuals (outside of the fair use exceptions), but that's gotten around by distributing them from countries where US copyright means fuck-all.
Apple's service manuals are no different.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
-2007
When the 15" MacBook Pro had a frame with hinges attached to it instead of them sensibly being attached to a backplate, so they constantly broke like paperclips.
Apple experience and quality.
-2008
When the graphics chips were dying on all the Apple computers. Apple was forced to help by a class action lawsuit. How that worked? They put an Apple diagnostic disc into your computer to decide whether they may or may not help you, based on whether the test passes. Of course, it can't work if you don't have a functional graphics chip.
Apple experience and quality.
-2009
"Unibody" 15" MacBook Pro. Except it was made out of 2 pieces stuck together with adhesive. Not only that, it was so well designed with such build quality, the fan exhausting the heat these MacTurd Pros built up, was positioned to exhaust into the adhesive directly. End result: Computers falling apart everywhere.
Apple experience and quality.
-2010
A1286 model with the 2850 board, which was failing because the sensors would keep the fans at 1000 RPM when FinalCut Pro was rendering and running a video for 20 minutes straight.
Apple experience and quality.
-~2010
iPhone 4 comes out. $600 phone that you could not hold in your hand without dropping a call. Apple is not at fault, it's your fault for not holding the phone correctly on your fucking face!!!
-2011
820-2915 board comes out. Throttling the CPU out of the box with no dust, at 70 fahrenheit room temp. A $2000 machine, throttling and functioning worse than a shitty $300 Acer at that time.
Apple experience and quality.
-2013-2015
Apple TrashCan Pro gets released. 2015 models start having major graphical issues that may cause distorted video, no video, system instability, freezing, restarts, shut downs, or may prevent system start up. AMD's FirePro D500 (high-end model) and D700 (built-to-order) GPUs are affected. Apple launches repair program in Feb 2016...
Glad /. picked this up. The tone in his voice with the last video is familiar... because it was my own. FWIW, I emerged victorious from my own battle.
In a world of the blind, the one-eyed man is king--and the two-eyed man is a heretic.
Everyone is a hero until the Cockroach flies.
In a world of the blind, the one-eyed man is king--and the two-eyed man is a heretic.
I've bought my last MacBook and iPhone. Nexus Android phones and laptops dual-boot Linux and Windows from now on, and Windows just for games and work. Sick of the walled garden, smugness and arrogance of Apple Computer.
So long, Tim Cook. It's been fun!
I love the general 'it works and the case is sound' aspect of my Apple computer along with the way I can bring up a bash shell and be productive with VIM, Python, GCC, sed, grep and all that other gunk.
I don't see a day when I won't have to work with all the major and some of the minor OSs all the time, but Unixyness, a stable UI and good hardware are a fine combination.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
The idea to "copyright" the physical description of the device, and hence repair instructions, was a legal maneuver to end-run the warranty laws after Vance Packard's 1960 seminal expose "The Waste Makers" described efforts to insert parts that would fail and other "planned obsolescence" laws. By the 1990s, Hitachi was the only electronics manufacturer to allow its repair manuals to be issued online.
This is a major reason that used electronics get exported to countries where repair is common and $100 legal stationery is ignored. And a major reason congresspeople like Gene Green of Dell - oops - I mean Texas keeps reintroducing laws to ban export of said repairable devices (not "fully functioning") with a sole exception of OEMs sending for warranty repair (because they realize the repair market was driven overseas - they just don't want us to know about it).
1. Intimidate and price-out domestic reuse and repair markets
2. Racially profile, slander, propaganda "e-waste" export repair markets
3. Legislate against export to those markets
Gently reply
I herd u like repairs...
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
Alternatively, Apple could make laptops that don't have massive heating issues and ridiculous failure rates. 2009 to 2013 Macbook Pros have absolutely ridiculous failure rates and the new models aren't that much better.
Is this why I am seeing so much more older Macbooks still in operation and functioning just fine compared to Windows laptops? You're funny.
There have definitely been a number of problems that have led to recalls over the years and I'd say Apple have been far too slow to react to them generally, I'd imagine that is as likely to be a result of the beaurocracy preventing those issues being correlated and detected as it is to be some kind of top level conspiracy. However I think most of them have been GPU issues, so from the same parts that the rest of the market has to use so I'm not sure how you avoid them by going elsewhere.
Yeah, 'cause that works anymore.
Imagine you have that ancient $brand TV. From like two decades ago. It cost a fortune and a half back then, but it was built to last. It's a CRT. Without picture-in-picture. Without USB port of course. Or HD. HD-ready? Uhhh... no. DLN...what?
Yeah, that huge, heavy box that can barely display any current TV programs, that's some free advertisement... Much better than those slick, flat things that can do everything!
Nobody gives a shit about how long things last. What people care about is gimmicks.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Odd. I see very few notes on MTBF on the displays next to the products in the store. But I see a long list of checkboxes telling me of the features the box has.
Must be that communism thing, where stores show stuff nobody wants to know but refuses to inform you about the important things!
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
At least not at this time, see Louis' video update: there's no lawsuit, Apple & co *like* my channel???
I wager we are more likely to see a dupe of this story than an update.
Give it to a retro gamer or smash bros player and you'll make him/her happy as a clam. A lag-free, DRM-free true black level display that doesn't scale incoming video and looks good in all supported resolutions? Hell yeah!
Yes, both of them would rejoice, and now for the other old boxes we have sitting here?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
It comes down to case law and I don't have the case name handy. I know it was tested in court a few years back and found to be fair use; I don't work in that field and hadn't really thought it relevant until recently, so I never looked that closely. I'll come back and post that info here if I find it.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
Here's one reference to case law from 2006, though not the one I was referring to (which was much older). This one's relating to the use of said manuals for tracking maintenance intervals, rather than performing actual maintenance. The courts basically said not allowing use of the manuals in this way would grant a judicially-enforced monopoly on maintenance tracking and would be injurious to the enforcement of antitrust and restriction-of-trade laws. IIRC, the ruling I'm thinking of says something very similar with regard to using said manual for actual repairs; maintenance tracking was left for the courts to rule on in 2006 as it is a wholly different use of the manuals.
APK quotes people (including myself) without context and should not be trusted. Just thought you should know.
If you've been living under one of these large heavy boxes for the past 5 years you might find yourself out of a roof due to someone snatching it up - retro gaming is big right now. Don't be surprised if you see people happily lined up to take them heavy old clunkers off your hands (or your nearby curb).