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Linux Mint 18 'Sarah' Released, Supports Generic GTK X-Apps (linuxmint.com)

Posted by EditorDavid on from the freshly-Mint-ed dept.

Slashdot reader Type44Q writes: The Linux Mint team announced the immediate availability of their latest release, Mint 18 "Sarah," in Cinnamon and MATE flavors. These follow on the heels of their respective beta versions, which have been out for nearly a month.
"Linux Mint 18 is a long-term support release which will be supported until 2021," the team announces on MATE's "new features" page, adding they've improved their update manager, included support for the Debian syntax of "apt", and are working on the "X-Apps" project to "produce generic applications for traditional GTK desktop environments...to replace applications which no longer integrate properly outside of a particular environment."

98 comments

  1. So they're fixing GNOME 3's fuck ups? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    "produce generic applications for traditional GTK desktop environments...to replace applications which no longer integrate properly outside of a particular environment."

    Is that just a polite, politically-correct way of saying that they're fixing up all of the shit that the GNOME 3 and systemd crowd have broken over the past several years?

    1. Re:So they're fixing GNOME 3's fuck ups? by SurenEnfiajyan · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Exacly.

    2. Re:So they're fixing GNOME 3's fuck ups? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "produce generic applications for traditional GTK desktop environments...to replace applications which no longer integrate properly outside of a particular environment."

      Is that just a polite, politically-correct way of saying that they're fixing up all of the shit that the GNOME 3 and systemd crowd have broken over the past several years?

      I came here to post the same thing. By "particular environment" they have to mean systemd. To depend so heavily on a particular "init system" when standards exist for a reason was a big mistake. Even if systemd were perfect the decision to be totally dependent on it is a mistake. Systemd is not perfect. The decreasing ability to avoid it is a problem. I've used Gentoo for a long time and happened to dodge this one - I just stayed with openrc. That doesn't make it less of a problem for others.

    3. Re:So they're fixing GNOME 3's fuck ups? by fnj · · Score: 0

      Is that just a polite, politically-correct way of saying that they're fixing up all of the shit that the GNOME 3 and systemd crowd have broken over the past several years?

      But Mint is a slave to all the blockheaded systemd shit, just like almost everybody else. I do think Mate on FreeBSD has a lot of potential.

    4. Re:So they're fixing GNOME 3's fuck ups? by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      Nope, not at all.
      This is for the text editor and pdf viewer etc.

    5. Re:So they're fixing GNOME 3's fuck ups? by Blaskowicz · · Score: 5, Informative

      Here is the rationale for the GTK3 X-apps and a couple finished example of them.

      http://segfault.linuxmint.com/2016/02/the-first-two-x-apps-are-ready/

      It's about how Gnome 3 has crapified gedit, evince etc. and uses non-standard GUI elements - Gnome-specific parts of GTK3 - in client-side decorated windows.
      Another reason is to remove a few dependencies, and in particular remove some of the distro-level hackery where Mint had gedit locked at version 2.30, so you couldn't install gedit 3. More generally it's part of removing warts that have historically made Cinnamon difficult to run on other distros, or some Gnome 3 applications on Cinnamon or Mint.

      Earlier blog post on it
      http://blog.linuxmint.com/?p=2985

    6. Re:So they're fixing GNOME 3's fuck ups? by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Informative

      Noting depends on systemd. Nothing depends on a specific init system.

      Software may depend on specific APIs that expose certain kernel features like cgroups, so if you're not happy with having systemd do that then either write your own interface or pay someone to write it for you.

    7. Re:So they're fixing GNOME 3's fuck ups? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      Noting depends on systemd. Nothing depends on a specific init system. Software may depend on specific APIs that expose certain kernel features like cgroups, so if you're not happy with having systemd do that then either write your own interface or pay someone to write it for you.

      That's roughly as useful as saying software doesn't require Windows or Mac or Linux, just their APIs. Sure you have things like WINE but it only exists through tons of effort and still only works half the time.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    8. Re:So they're fixing GNOME 3's fuck ups? by Fly+Swatter · · Score: 1

      Good, I finally stopped using adobe acrobat reader, since they don't even support linux anymore. I installed the recommended evince, and upon starting it up my first thought was 'wtf is this ?' It has a non-standard title bar that looks completely out of place with anything that isn't gnome. Honestly it looks so out of place I thought it must have been from the times when developers simply didn't know any better. I use XFCE.

      I even looked for an option to make evince look normal, but alas this 'include the title bar in the app and ignore the window manager' feature is built into GTK 3 and is 'up to the app developer to use or not'. Wow GTK, really ? You are supposed to be GTK not GNOME :( I miss gtk 2.

    9. Re:So they're fixing GNOME 3's fuck ups? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      It doesn't exist through any effort of mine. But hey you're comparing a volunteer effort of great programmers in implementing an undocumented API vs the might and resources of Microsoft, to a volunteer effort of great programmers implementing an open and well documented API vs what according to slashdot is currently the worst programmer on the planet.

      You may poo-poo it as being not useful but it is actually the very nature of software development. At a lower system level most software exists as APIs to provide kernel functionality. If Lennart Poettering can figure it out, anyone can right?

    10. Re: So they're fixing GNOME 3's fuck ups? by corychristison · · Score: 1

      Be sure to set -systemd in your make.conf, otherwise it will slowly creep into your system.

      Also, look into Funtoo. It's a fork of Gentoo by the original Gentoo creator. He's made it apparent systemd will remain a second class citizen.

    11. Re:So they're fixing GNOME 3's fuck ups? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They should kill off that eyesore MATE and focus solely on Cinnamon, which is infinitely better.

    12. Re:So they're fixing GNOME 3's fuck ups? by CronoCloud · · Score: 1

      No, just Gnome 3. Desktop users aren't complaining about systemd, the init system change has little effect on desktop users.

    13. Re:So they're fixing GNOME 3's fuck ups? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      gtk3-nocsd-git

    14. Re:So they're fixing GNOME 3's fuck ups? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Stop slobbering all over Poettering already.

    15. Re:So they're fixing GNOME 3's fuck ups? by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      If you're nostalgic for the good old days, use the programs from Mate.

      Atril is their evince fork and should work seamlessly under xfce.

  2. systemd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    Since it was missing from the summary, the Mint 18 release is based on Ubuntu 16.04 and now includes systemd.

    1. Re: systemd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (âÂâ-Â)âï â"â"â"

  3. Those aren't APPY APPS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Offtopic

    This is another example of LUDDITES pretending to app apps, but they're actually making LUDDITE software!

    Vote for Appald Trump, and he will MAKE APPS APPY AGAIN by deporting LUDDITES who make LUDDITE software that pretends to be apps!

    Apps!

    1. Re: Those aren't APPY APPS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You again.

    2. Re:Those aren't APPY APPS! by FatdogHaiku · · Score: 1

      You forgot to mention he will build a wall of apps and make the LUDDITES pay for it!

      --
      You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
    3. Re: Those aren't APPY APPS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey sexconker, you forgot to reply to yourself about cows. I know, the trolls have always had memes that they posted over and over, but the quality seems to have gone way down.

    4. Re: Those aren't APPY APPS! by Pax681 · · Score: 1

      Hey sexconker, you forgot to reply to yourself about cows..

      the cows have gone to pastures new!

    5. Re: Those aren't APPY APPS! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's what moo think.

  4. Sarah Conner? by drew_92123 · · Score: 3, Funny

    Just don't install it on an array of Conner HDDs... ;-)

    1. Re:Sarah Conner? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Do those even still exist? The last Conner HDD I remember seeing was about 270 MB.

  5. Mint is almost awesome by future+assassin · · Score: 4, Interesting

    only issues I have is that for some reason once in a blue moon (every 3-4 months) some thing happens with either the system or FGLRX drivers and get a blank cursor on loading screen and x wont start. Have to totally purge remove FGLRX resintall xorg for it to work again. Install FGLRX once one and I'm good to got for an other 4 months.

    Also should add this isn't Mint per say but running AMD A10 5800 the new AMD and Rageon drivers are MUCH smoother when playing Xonotic. Basically just as good or better than on my works Win7 machine with better graphics and CPU.

    --
    by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
    1. Re:Mint is almost awesome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      future assassin, on a dual boot machine make sure to shut down properly or else the DIRTY POWEROFF remains set, and the rendering will not initialize and only give you that accursed blank screen with cursor.

    2. Re:Mint is almost awesome by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just a guess, but it sounds like fglrx breaks every time a new kernel is released, as the kernel module needs rebuilding. Reinstalling xorg is a bit drastic.

      This is in my experience, the problem with Linux Mint. Since it is basically Ubuntu LTS without the ugly default UI, Mint is often the first distro for n00bs coming from Windows (hey, we were all n00bs once). As such, it has the advantage of Ubuntu's software ecosystem, but not the knowledgeable user community. The SNR on the Mint forums is dire because nobody knows what the hell they are doing, which means that the first few pages of google results, for any given problem tend to be useless too.

    3. Re:Mint is almost awesome by TheRealMindChild · · Score: 1

      This has been a thing with X ever since the 2.6 kernel was released

      --

      "When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade. Make life take the lemons back!" -- Cave Johnson
    4. Re: Mint is almost awesome by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      I gave up on getting it to work properly with AMD GPU's years ago...

    5. Re: Mint is almost awesome by future+assassin · · Score: 1

      I don't have an issues with the install or the APU or GPU working, just the issues I described in my og post. Also like stated with AMD drivers from about 3 months ago gaming has improved quite a bit with both FGLRX and Radeon drivers.

      --
      by TheSpoom (715771) Uncaring Linux user here. I have nothing to add to this but please continue. *munches popcorn*
    6. Re:Mint is almost awesome by Blaskowicz · · Score: 2

      FYI the FGLRX is deprecated in Ubuntu 16.04 (or any distro of the same Xorg newness) and your A10 5800 will not be supported by the newer driver, so 'radeon' driver it is.

  6. Nice, but... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 2

    I looked at this the other day and it's nice, but realized that I can get basically the same thing, even the Mate desktop layout - if I wanted (via Mate Tweak: Redmond, Enable Advanced Menu) - simply by using the official Ubuntu 16.04 "ubuntu-mate" flavor. Sure Mint offers some simplifications, but then I have to track two distros in my head, Ubuntu and Mint, and one is simpler than both -- especially if I want to put a server edition on one system and a desktop edition on another, and/or use Ubuntu at work... (we use RHEL too but I'm not a fan)

    While I'm still not enamored with systemd - not the idea, just the implementation, its seemingly black-hole like scope expansion, the dick developers, etc (and I guess some of that could be said of several Canonical decisions too) -- I... am... over... it... and just want a stable system on which I can get some work done. (I feel this way about trying to choose a distro too.) And want something I can use on both newer and older hardware - which excludes using Unity (barf) and GNOME 3.

    Just my $0.02.

    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    1. Re:Nice, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Use Slackware.

    2. Re:Nice, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It took a while but Ubuntumate.org is filling that gaping hole caused by the Gnome 3 fuckup. A useable desktop that sides with Canonical in the update imbroglio, namely that Mint is too conservative updating kernels while Ubuntu stays almost in lockstep.

      Big kudos to the ubuntumate guys, worth a few bucks donation imo.

      Captcha: quagmire

    3. Re:Nice, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      That's what I do too. My problem with Mint is that they have no "mini.iso" network install disc. I use that a lot for diskless installs (all of my machines are diskless) from local cache which are automatically at the latest package version. The lack of that means Mint is no good to me and they seem to have no interest in supporting it.

      Like you said though, it doesn't matter. You can just use Ubuntu then install the flavor you want (MATE, Xubuntu, etc). There is even a Cinnamon flavor but frankly it sucks as bad or worse than GNOME3 and Unity when you have lots of monitors.

    4. Re:Nice, but... by AthanasiusKircher · · Score: 3, Insightful

      and just want a stable system on which I can get some work done. (I feel this way about trying to choose a distro too.) And want something I can use on both newer and older hardware

      Those are precisely the reasons that I switched my primary home desktop OS from Ubuntu to Mint several years ago. (This was actually before the Unity debacle, but I could have seen something like that coming given poor choices Ubuntu had made before.)

      I'm NOT trying to convert you. We all have our particular stories and needs. But Ubuntu for many years never actually satisfied the "just works" criterion I care most about -- they seemed too interested in showing off Wobbly Windows and other BS, while major functionality would often break on every upgrade. Particularly things like sound, video, codecs, etc. always seemed a pain to actually get working, and they were often unstable. (And I'm not kidding that EVERY new version broke things on my systems, and each time the breakage was different.)

      I just got tired of it. I abandoned Ubuntu and went back to Debian for a while, though that had its own issues. Distro-hopped for a while, but nothing ever seemed stable and user-friendly. Then I tried Mint, and every computer I've installed it on in the past 6 years or so has "just worked." (And as for older hardware, the XFCE edition has worked great for me.)

      I'm sure Ubuntu is probably more stable now, but I've seen no compelling reason to go back. Mint's interface is relatively stable and works. It's funny, but that's really all I give a crap about these days in an OS -- don't change stuff every year for no apparent reason, and make it work on standard hardware. And if possible give me a choice that runs as light as possible on system resources. I can get used to just about anything if it satisfies that criteria, but unfortunately most OSes don't.

    5. Re:Nice, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Therein lies the paradox of Mint users...they think they've actually abandoned Ubuntu.

      It's an unofficial flavour, mind you, one that's made all sorts of progress in its own right that they deserve plenty of credit for...it's a great distribution. It's also Ubuntu under the hood. In fact since there's often a lag between when Mint incorporates security patches from mainstream Ubuntu, you're potentially putting yourself at greater risk of getting tagged by 0-day security vulnerabilities. If you're willing to sacrifice security for ease of use then yes, Mint is the way to go. Anyone who knows even a little about computing would be better off sticking with the mainstream Ubuntu distro, it's what Mint is based off and the security patches are cranked out at a reasonable speed.

      That's leaving out the fact entirely that Ubuntu also posts its own security advisories, as opposed to Mint, who for a few days was offering a malware-laden ISO of their Cinnamon desktop spin due to a breakin...one wonders what the server was running. If it was Mint, you'd think they'd have known better. A good desktop OS and a good server OS are two different things, always have been.

    6. Re:Nice, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      sed s/Ubuntu/Debian/g && repost

    7. Re:Nice, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't recall Debian attempting to use a Debian spin to generate Bitcoin clandestinely on unsuspecting end-user's PC's. Nice try though, maybe with a little practice you might actually have a personality some day.

    8. Re: Nice, but... by Mortimer82 · · Score: 2

      You're clearly uninformed regarding the nature of the telemetry in .NET Core or you are deliberately spreading misinformation. The runtime is not including telemetry at all. And while the compiler includes telemetry, it is highly specific and limited to essentially whether or not certain compiler flags are used. Basically, in this case Microsoft just wants to know based on real numbers which way developers use very particular aspects of the compiler. The only conceivable use they could have for this information is to know where best to invest their effort, which is IMO a good thing for users of . NET Core. They were completely upfront about this in their announcement of .NET Core 1.0, it was part of the announcement and had equal weighting to the features they were promoting. They explained in clear layman's terms exactly what they were doing and how you can turn it off if you're paranoid. It's okay for someone to have legitimate concerns, but in this case you look like an ignorant person who is making a big fuss of something they clearly haven't taken the time to understand properly.

    9. Re:Nice, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can't get X-Apps in Ubuntu yet unless you build them yourself.

    10. Re:Nice, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The site was hacked, they detected it the next day, and were completely upfront about it. Don't blow it out of proportion.

    11. Re: Nice, but... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There should be no telemetry in a compiler. Ever.

    12. Re: Nice, but... by Mortimer82 · · Score: 1

      That's your subjective opinion and you're entitled to it.

      My subjective opinion is that in this case it does more good than harm. No personally identifiable information (aside from IP address, which might or might not be stored) is sent to Microsoft, but the community is likely going to benefit in that Microsoft will focus on features that actually get used rather than something which lands up never getting used.

      Each to their own though, just ensure your comments are fair and informed.

    13. Re: Nice, but... by JustBoo · · Score: 0

      Morty, it's my subjective opinion you are a paid MS Shill and a liar here to spread your paid bullshit to the unwashed masses. The fact is one of the most monopolistic and self-serving corporations in the modern age with a history of shady tactics was caught, repeat caught being shady by secretly inserting telemetry into code generated by a freaking compiler. Only then, did they confess to its existence and tell people how to stop it.

      Your assertion MS was upfront and told people beforehand is a lie. Making you a liar Morty. Making your post a shill post, Morty. Take it like a man Morty.

    14. Re:Nice, but... by JustBoo · · Score: 2

      Therein lies the paradox of Mint users...they think they've actually abandoned Ubuntu.

      It's an unofficial flavour, mind you, one that's made all sorts of progress in its own right that they deserve plenty of credit for...it's a great distribution. It's also Ubuntu under the hood.[...]

      Did you know Debian is "under the hood" when it comes to Ubuntu? Yeah, Ubuntu is based on Debian. So all that you wrote also applies to Ubuntu as well. Just sayin'.

    15. Re: Nice, but... by Mortimer82 · · Score: 0

      Is accusing me of being a shill your way of covering up the fact that people like you just hate (even modern) Microsoft on sheer principal regardless of the particular topic? You have no doubt convinced yourself your opinion is completely rational and justified, but you sound like someone with a college level of maturity who regardless of what they are presented, refuses to objectively re-examine the situation and, God forbid, revise their opinion, instead you prefer to point fingers and falsely accuse others without any facts of their motives aside from the fact their opinion is different to yours.

      You are likely referring to the C++ telemetry injection into compiled output, which I agree is indefensible, but that is a different matter to the telemetry present in the .NET Core 1.0 compiler, which they were in fact completely open about if you read their initial announcement on their blog. I have not made up my mind about Windows 10 telemetry, but I was very grateful for the free upgrade on my Windows 7 machine at home which was feeling very old in comparison to my Windows 8.1 machine at work, which aside from the annoying Start Screen, was a definite improvement over Windows 7.

      I'm clearly a bit of a Microsoft fan, but that's because as a C# developer I use, appreciate, and realise value from their products daily. I find using Linux/BSD quite frustrating by comparison, but I don't go around bashing them, I recognise and respect the value that Linux/BSD adds to society, so why can't people like you do the same in regards to positive initiatives by organisations like Microsoft? Like for example when they released .NET Core 1.0, certainly very useful software, made available on non-Microsoft platforms, made available at no charge, and even has the source code freely available? But in your opinion, that is all worthless because of some optional telemetry which I feel is there to actually serve the interest of the users.

      I am not so bold to try proclaim that Microsoft is especially "great" overall, that they aren't still bad in some aspects, or even better than some alternatives, but the fact is that I, along with millions of other people, find Microsoft's products very useful on a daily basis.

      Take it like a man Boo, acknowledge that no matter what Microsoft does, people like you will just always look for any reason to hate them. People like you seem to rely on selectively choosing the pieces of articles which validate their opinion, then selectively quote those pieces out of context, proclaiming how it's just further "evidence" of how X is bad.

    16. Re:Nice, but... by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      Sure Ubuntu offers some simplifications, but then I have to track two distros in my head, Ubuntu and debian, and one is simpler than both

      Thus I use upstream debian and install the mate-desktop package. :)

  7. Emulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have a 64-bit laptop that's a few years old. I'd like to install Linux on it and use it for retro gaming. Basically that means running things like:

    1) Emulators of really old systems like the C64, NES, Apple ][, old school Macs, etc...

    2) DOS games like Duke Nukem 3D, Railroad Tycoon, SimEarth, etc...

    3) Older Windows games, mainly from the late 1990s and early 2000s, so I'll need wine

    4) Console games, up to the PS2 and PSP

    I've had good luck with the first two of these on many Linux systems, so they're not an issue. But I've had issues with the third and fourth items on my list. I've tried to use Ubuntu 14.04 for this purpose and have run into a lot of issues. There are plenty of programs that are listed as working well in wine on the winehq.org website but simply don't run when I try them in the wine package I installed. I've had decent luck with Pcsx, and PPSSPP is fairly simple to get running. It would be nice to have a package for PPSSPP, though. Getting a working Pcsx2 is a nightmare, though. I've managed to install it and run it under wine, but it's terribly slow and crashes frequently.

    Am I likely to have a better experience under Linux Mint? I don't want to screw around with compiling stuff or installing drivers that don't ship with the distro. I just want things to work, without too much effort on my part. For my purposes, am I likely to achieve better results with Linux Mint?

    1. Re: Emulation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Playonlinux is easier than just wine BTW. Wines a bit tricky for newbies

    2. Re:Emulation by Blaskowicz · · Score: 2

      I would try a Wine ppa.

      Holy grail for me would be to just run Windows 98 in a VM with a fully emulated GPU that has a Windows 98 driver (or XP, since that worked amazingly well with rather few exceptions in games. Or Win 7 32bit)
      But that doesn't really exist yet.
      Even when Wine works it's not always very practical to install the games or deal with cdrom images (which were useful on Windows to trick old games's CD check)

      Mint is just Ubuntu, for your purposes. What it gives you is a good 2D desktop (except for the Cinnamon one which is 3D accelerated), that eliminates a potential source of problems. You also get to use Ubuntu ppas.

    3. Re:Emulation by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Holy grail for me would be to just run Windows 98 in a VM with a fully emulated GPU that has a Windows 98 driver (or XP, since that worked amazingly well with rather few exceptions in games. Or Win 7 32bit)
      But that doesn't really exist yet.

      While you are correct, I have found that the QXL driver in QEMU/KVM is pretty good, and that the video driver in vmware player is actually very good. It's rare that an application doesn't work in vmware these days, and QEMU isn't awful :)

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re:Emulation by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      Awesome thanks, seen it's a work in progress with 3D acceleration planned. (and that there are win 7 / win XP drivers). I'll wait. Even if I had to do software GPU rendering on an old tired PC to get low res at 30 fps on late 90s games that'd be awesome.
      I remember coming across it (well, SPICE) and dismissing it or not finding much info.
      The name conflict with electronics modeling software is dumb.

  8. Long-term support until 2021? by wwalker · · Score: 1

    "Long-term support" only means 5 years now?! Even Windows XP had 12 year life. I guess it's on par with Windows 10, so it's ok, eh?

    1. Re:Long-term support until 2021? by jopsen · · Score: 1

      Google recently disclosed that their support (for security updates) on Nexus devices was 18 months from sale (or 3 years from release). So given that Mint is a free I would argue that 5 years is rather good :)

    2. Re:Long-term support until 2021? by SeaFox · · Score: 5, Informative

      "Long-term support" only means 5 years now?!

      Linux Mint's long-term support cycle is tied to that of Ubuntu's. Maybe you should be complaining upstream?

  9. But where are the BENEFITS? by petes_PoV · · Score: 1, Insightful
    OK, I went to the page that explained about all the stuff that has changed. Some apps have been substituted for different ones. Different artwork. A new daemon or two. New themes. And some different ways of doing stuff.

    But where is the list of things that I couldn't do on older releases, that I will be able to do now? What new opportunities does this release open up to me, as a user? What extra functions does this release have?

    In short, where is the compelling case to spend time and effort to install this release?

    --
    politicians are like babies' nappies: they should both be changed regularly and for the same reasons
    1. Re: But where are the BENEFITS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try the Ubuntu 16.04 change log?

    2. Re:But where are the BENEFITS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      +1
      I am applying the same criteria for upgrades that I applied to a Windows 7 -> Windows 10 upgrade, ultimately deciding the negatives of Windows 10 outweigh the positives.

      I am using Mint 17.2 and so far, I don't see a compelling reason to upgrade.. All of the stuff that I need right now works..

    3. Re:But where are the BENEFITS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Um, I don't think there have been too many 'extra functions' as you define them in ~12 years. Back then I browsed the web, watched videos, typed, and printed documents.

      Computers don't really NEED to do anything new anymore - just doing the same things faster, more reliably, and in a more visually pleasant fashion is all I want from new software/hardware.

    4. Re:But where are the BENEFITS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no benefit for end users; this is just a resume bullet point bump for two guys that are in denial about the fact that they're in over their heads.

    5. Re:But where are the BENEFITS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      +1
      I am applying the same criteria for upgrades that I applied to a Windows 7 -> Windows 10 upgrade, ultimately deciding the negatives of Windows 10 outweigh the positives.

      I am using Mint 17.2 and so far, I don't see a compelling reason to upgrade.. All of the stuff that I need right now works..

      And, because this is Linux and not Windows, that's perfectly fine. Upgrade to 18 if and when you want to. No officially sanctioned malware from the Mint developers will infect your Mint 17.2 box and force upgrade your computer to Mint 18 when you step away for coffee. No Mint 17 updates will retroactively break things to encourage you to upgrade. Do what you want with your PC and your OS, because they are yours. That's the point of using Linux. What a revolutionary idea!

    6. Re:But where are the BENEFITS? by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      Actually it's a design goal that not much changes. Which is why there may be something like 300 million users of Windows XP still.
      You could upgrade from Ubuntu 7.04 to this and not get lost.
      The rest is just newer versions of software or sysadmin crap (e.g. ubuntu nappy containers)

    7. Re:But where are the BENEFITS? by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      By all means feel free to wait for 18.1, 18.2, 19 etc.

    8. Re:But where are the BENEFITS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually it's a design goal that not much changes.

      That's my favorite part! You can look to any other distro on the planet for "new opportunities" and "extra functions". Why can't some people accept that other people prefer stability and an unchanging UI? Why must every single distro be bleeding edge and buggy?

    9. Re:But where are the BENEFITS? by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      But where is the list of things that I couldn't do on older releases, that I will be able to do now? What new opportunities does this release open up to me, as a user? What extra functions does this release have?

      I have a usb bluetooth adapter I tried using once and it just plain doesn't work in 17.3. I got it to pair with my wireless headphones once, but it didn't actually let me play sound through them. Generally it didn't work at all. From what limited time I've spent with 18, bluetooth suddenly is usable. First time I tried I was able to connect my headphones and play sound through them, with A2DP. There might be a couple bugs with recognizing devices properly on reconnect, but it's a huge improvement.

    10. Re:But where are the BENEFITS? by JustBoo · · Score: 1

      OK, I went to the page that explained about all the stuff that has changed. Some apps have been substituted for different ones. Different artwork. A new daemon or two. New themes. And some different ways of doing stuff.

      But where is the list of things that I couldn't do on older releases, that I will be able to do now? What new opportunities does this release open up to me, as a user? What extra functions does this release have?

      In short, where is the compelling case to spend time and effort to install this release?

      You can thank Google for that. This should probably have been version 17.4. But since Google has proven "the bigger the number the better the software" we now have this. If Sergy Brin belches while near a google computer, OH MY!, that's a major revision. If they move a textbox, OH MY!, that's a major revision. If a guy in marketing sneezes, OH MY!, ...you guessed it. Narcissistic companies loaded with narcissistic programmers just know everything they do is of paramount importance so their release numbers have to reflect that.

    11. Re: But where are the BENEFITS? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because systemd

  10. Thank you, Clem et al. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I've been happily using Mint Mate 13 (Maya) for several years. Wonderful, rock solid OS. Helps restore my sanity each day after being forced to use the putrid buggy Windows 7 at work.

    I can't wait to try the Sara version. Thank you, thank you, thank you so much for all of your work.

    To all Linux developers everywhere, thank you.

    1. Re:Thank you, Clem et al. by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

      Hmm, been wondering what Sara Palin has to do with Linux...

      --
      Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
  11. GTK and Gnome suck, even Linus said it was shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Look it up.

    You are better off with KDE and disable akonadi and nepomuk. Sweeeeet sweeeeet swweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeet. No issues to report on all platforms.

  12. Ruined by markdavis · · Score: 1

    >"and are working on the "X-Apps" project to "produce generic applications for traditional GTK desktop environments...to replace applications which no longer integrate properly outside of a particular environment." "

    I don't use Mint (use Mageia, Fedora, and CentOS) nor Gnome but THANK GOD for Pluma. I loved gedit and they totally RUINED it. Now if they could fix Atril to be a proper replacement for the now ruined Evince so it DOESN'T USE FREAKING JAVA, that would be super-great too!

    1. Re:Ruined by Blaskowicz · · Score: 1

      They have "xreader"! Although it may just be a tweaked build of atril that's slightly better when run without MATE.

    2. Re:Ruined by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What's wrong with a desktop program being written in a general programming language?

    3. Re:Ruined by markdavis · · Score: 1

      >"What's wrong with a desktop program being written in a general programming language?"

      1) Java is huge- really huge
      2) We don't use it for anything else, so it takes forever to load
      3) We don't use it for anything else, so it consumes tons and tons of RAM. Plus it tries to reserve tons more RAM just based on how much you have. On large systems like ours (48GB+) this takes a long time and ends up wasting tons and tons of RAM.
      4) It tries to gobble multiple CPUs on a multiuser system, especially at startup- a big no-no. During startup it can peg half a dozen cores or more FOR SEVERAL SECONDS!
      6) Java is full of bugs and security problems and I don't have time to constantly fix it
      7) It should be totally unnecessary. Evince didn't need Java. Okular doesn't use Java. Adobe reader doesn't use Java. Why should Atril? (Will Xreader??)

  13. Re:A distro named Sarah by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But we've already had Julia, Rachel, Rebecca, and Rosa....

  14. What's the difference? by dbraden · · Score: 1

    How do you find out the difference between Cinnamon and Mate? I couldn't even find it on their site, even in the About or FAQ pages. I shouldn't have to use Google to find out what your products are. Unless I totally overlooked it somewhere.

    1. Re:What's the difference? by SeaFox · · Score: 1

      They're different interfaces, but they share some similarities. What you're asking is really no different than "What's the difference between Unity and the OSX Finder?" (From a functional standpoint)

    2. Re:What's the difference? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      mate is more a direct fork of gnome 2
      try cinnamon as an alternative personally I love it.

    3. Re:What's the difference? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Imo instead of reading it's probably best to try them both hands-on. Fire up a VM, install ubuntumate.org, then install Cinnamon via a PPA. Just takes 15 minutes and you can log in/out between the interfaces to see the differences.

      I prefer Cinnamon myself because the start menu is pretty nice (search function is handy), but folks who have Gnome 2 muscle-memorized would definitely go with Mate. YMMV.

    4. Re:What's the difference? by BlackPignouf · · Score: 2

      Mate is like Gnome before it began to suck, Cinnamon is a Gnome 3 that doesn't suck.

    5. Re:What's the difference? by wkwilley2 · · Score: 1

      It's all up to your personal preference really. I've been using Cinnamon on 17.3 for about 6 months now and it's really good.

      Cinnamon seems to have a very premium feel to it.

      --
      Have you ever fallen asleep at the keybhanusdiog?
  15. Systemd? by HalAtWork · · Score: 1

    Why are you lumping systemd in with this, does the X-Apps initiative have anything to do with underlying daemons? Does systemd introduce incompatibilities at the desktop app level? If so it seems like things aren't properly abstracted...

    --
    Twinstiq, game news
    1. Re:Systemd? by ChunderDownunder · · Score: 1

      I believe one of the underlying reasons for adopting systemd in non-Red Hat distros was that Gnome3 added hooks to systemd for session management. (and followed by KDE, iirc)

  16. Mint is the best Linux hands down by HalAtWork · · Score: 1

    Congrats Mint team. Thanks for building what everyone actually needs to get things done, and for those of us who don't like mysteries and surprises just because of a UI designer's whim.

    --
    Twinstiq, game news
    1. Re: Mint is the best Linux hands down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Too bad it's running systemd under the hood

    2. Re: Mint is the best Linux hands down by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good thing you'd never guess

  17. Installing Mint 17 now in Hyper-V by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

    Doh!

    --
    http://saveie6.com/
    1. Re:Installing Mint 17 now in Hyper-V by slickwillie · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I just installed 17.3 on two "new" computers, then 18 comes out. But I like XFCE and so far it hasn't been released.

  18. Re:What's wrong with SystemD by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

    Seriously I and I am sure many others are sick of the whining here.

    I am not a troll but I am asking a serious question. What can Init do that SystemD can't? Explain?

    Servers and my Vm's use SystemD just fine without issue. I watched youtube videos and SystemD can do everything init can and can write logs in txt, is editable, and from the looks of it an improvement over init as it is event driven without long scripts.

    --
    http://saveie6.com/
  19. Wow by gexacor · · Score: 1

    Thank you, I'll run to the download page right now LTS Mint is what I'll need in a few days literally!