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Historic Route 66 To Feature Solar Road Technology (cnet.com)
An anonymous reader writes: The Missouri Department of Transportation (MoDOT) has announced plans to upgrade a small stretch of the historic Route 66 roadway with solar-powered panels. The panels, which are created by Solar Roadways, can support the weight of cars, feature built-in LEDs to create light-up road markings, and can be used to generate electricity to donate back to the grid. The company has won a number of contracts with the U.S. Department of Transportation, though it's unlikely we'll see solar-powered roadways throughout the country anytime soon. MoDOT said it hopes to lay the first panels starting with the Historic Route 66 Welcome Center by the end of the year, The Kansas City Star reports. SolarCity released a new report recently that says their solar power systems have a usable lifetime of at least 35 years, which is 40% longer than what the market expects.
Look, if you were doing rolling charging, there might be some point to this. But if you aren't, there isn't. The best place for the panels is at the point of use. The best point of use is at a vehicle charging station where people park during the day, preferably over the top of a parking garage where the panels will have all the positioning advantages and also add shade to the top level of the garage, or on a convenient flat corporate rooftop where it can be serviced without substantial hazard to workers. The best place for a panel will never, ever be a road surface, and it will usually be a roof — just probably not the roof of your home.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
The concept of "solar roadways" has already been so thoroughly debunked, it's totally unbelievable that anyone would fund them.
See https://www.youtube.com/watch?... https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
"If a portion of the power might be usable to de-ice the roads?"
Sure because ice always forms on roads on bright sunny days right around solar noon.
See my blog http://ilovecookes.blogspot.com/ for light hearted technical information.
Everything about this article is pretty much garbage. Let's pick this apart.
The solar panels are being installed in a sidewalk as a test to see if they might be viable in other places like roads. Nobody is installing solar panels in roads yet.
Potholes shouldn't be an issue because the solar panels include a heating element, which should prevent many issues with thermal expansion and being covered with snow and ice. Despite what Slashdot commenters think, people have actually thought of these problems.
The goal here is to generate electricity and reduce maintenance costs. There are a huge number of interstate and state highways in Missouri. I-70 is in serious need of upgrades to improve the interchanges in the middle of Missouri and to add an extra lane statewide. But it's also necessary to maintain other major highways like I-44, I-55, I-35, I-49, and I-29. Plus you have a lot of state highways, especially in areas like Saint Louis and Kansas City. Then you also have these lettered state highways throughout the state that are roughly similar to the Farm-to-market roads in Texas. And there are also significant upgrades needed for bridges over the Missouri and Mississippi Rivers in the Saint Louis area. All of this is pretty damn expensive and, as a result, Missouri's highways aren't as good as the highways in some of the surrounding states.
If you can cut maintenance costs and add another revenue stream, that's a good thing. It's a lot easier than trying to make I-70 a toll road, which has been discussed and met with a lot of opposition. It's not clear if these solar roads are viable, but it's worth testing and finding out.
... to just let them try it and find out for themselves, because scientifically literate people telling someone who supports this all of the entirely valid reasons about why it won't work don't mean squat when a person really *wants* to believe something, and that is blinding them to the arguments against it. The only thing left for them to listen to is their own, hard-knocks experience.
File under 'M' for 'Manic ranting'
This really is the most moronic idea I have ever seen. Glass is not exactly on the list of best materials to use for:
1) high traffic areas
2) load bearing capacity
3) coefficient of friction, especially when wet
That last part is especially laughable when you consider their solution, a pattern of pimple-like bumps on the top. Ok, so those will last exactly as long as the first snowfall, at which point the plough will make it rather smooth again. And, of course, as anyone knows, rough roads will produce lower gas milage, so the effect of this surface might be to use *more* energy.
And everyone really needs to go and look at their youtube videos where they show how it's wired up, which requires a trench to be dug under the roadway and kept waterproof because it's stuffed with expensive non-waterproof electronics.
What a joke.
There's been a lot of speculation here about reducing thermal expansion. One of the reasons roads in Wisconsin need to be paved so frequently is that they have to be designed to handle a temperature range of -20F to 100F. This means that asphalt roads here have a lot more asphalt. When you look at a southern state, they handle a much narrower temperature range of say 50F to 130F. They can get away with lower asphalt content, which means the roads are more durable. Northern roads also have to content with frost heave, beneath the pavement, which also reduces lifespan. To reduce thermal expansion of the roadway, you'll need to keep the temperature above 50F. Will the solar panels produce enough energy to do that when the air temperature is below 20? Heating the road surface might prevent the soil below it from freezing at the centerline, but along the shoulders you'll still get a lot of frost. That means you have the center of the road behaving very differently from the edges, which will likely lead to much more frequent maintenance.
Sometimes it is a good idea to test this stuff out before jumping into conclusions on why it may be a bad idea.
We are moving from a success reward system to a failure avoidance culture. Lets avoid making things better because there is a chance that someone could make it worse.
Lets try it out, see the failure points and see if those have a workaround.
Vs. hiding our head in fear that it may not work out 100% right at go live.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Here is the EEVBLOG video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
He makes many interesting points and calls BS on the large number of unsubstantiated claims made by solar roadway nuts.
"Jones' videos have been thoroughly debunked. The test cycle way in Europe exceeded expectations and proved that the technology is viable."
It produced HALF of the energy produced by the same surface taken as a rooftop or side panel.
"They just have to pay for themselves and then some over their lifetime."
There is no way such marking pay themselves over a such time, when really self reflecting paint do the same job, and repainting is far far easier than a trench or electronic. What happens if it cracks or have a small hole due to winter/summer changes ? Well it slowly fill with water. Is that electronic water proof ? because that paint sure is. So far only test were cycle way which are not too bad. Now try an 18 wheeler.
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Even if what you say about him is true (and it isn't as far as I've seen), what bearing does that have on what he has said? I don't need an old youtuber to tell me that solar roadways are a stupid idea. Next time attack the argument instead of the person. Better yet, how, in your words, would solar roadways work? Maybe if you perform this mental exercise you will realize why you sound so stupid.
Let me ask your question a different way: Would you take investment advice from a homeless person?
Well, that's an irrelevant question. Dr. Mason is an actual scientist, but he wouldn't need to be. A sophomore could tell me the same thing and I'd listen to him because the evidence stands on its own. If a homeless man came up to me and told me not to invest in something because of x and y reasons, and he backed those reasons up with sound arguments, yes, I'd listen to him. Maybe he's homeless because he was scammed in a similar way.
Would you be concerned if the surgeon who was about to operate on you had prison tattoos and canker sores?
But I have been seen by a doctor with tattoos, which is odd for me because many people in my country don't have tattoos. It turned out he used to be in the military. But you see, the things you suggested might be pointers to incompetence are not found with Dr. Mason. The problem comes when you realize that you attacked Dr. Mason because he disagrees with you on an internet fight, not because he's been dismissed from academia, or because he's published false data, or anything like that. So again, how about you tell me how you think solar roadways would work? This should be easy for you, since you're not a homeless person and I assume you've taken at least one course in basic physics. As much as you try, you can't trick me. I am from a country with people far trickier than you.
Until Los Angeles suddenly loses power twice every day at rush hour.
Kroger Marketplace in Phoenix uses this tech the right way, paving its parking lot with them but OVER the cars. Shaded parking in Arizona is a perk usually reserved for Doctors' Row.