Walmart Now Lets You Pay With Phone At All 4,600 US Stores Via Walmart Pay (cnet.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Walmart will now let customers make purchases with their phone at all 4,600 of its stores in the U.S. The feature is called Walmart Pay and it works by letting the cashier scan a QR code on a customer's phone screen to complete their payment. The technology is different than Apple, Samsung, and Android Pay, which involves tapping your phone next to a payment terminal with NFC. The company wants to make shopping easier and faster, and with its own payment app, Walmart can get insights into consumer behavior, though it says it won't use the data without a shopper's permission. Walmart says no payment information is stored on users' phones or at registers -- card information is stored on Walmart servers. Note: Samsung Pay also uses magnetic secure transmission (MST) to make purchases. When a smartphone with Samsung Pay is held against a register with a magnetic stripe terminal, the phone emits a magnetic signal that simulates the magnetic strip found on the back of a credit or debit card.

Comments

Walmart

[MichaelEdits.com]

Yeah, let's make it easy for children and the brain dead to blow a small fortune on cheap crap they don't need. It's all about the Benjamins, although I don't suppose we can call them that if we're paying with a phone app.

Re:Walmart

[magarity]

let's make it easy for children and the brain dead to blow a small fortune on cheap crap they don't need

Walmart is the US's largest grocery chain by both number of locations and amount of food sold, but nice hipster rant against Big Company.

Re:Walmart

[cdrudge]

And using the Walmart Pay would be any different than using a credit or debit card how? One way you swipe a card to get your payment info. Another way you present a QR code that uniquely identifies you, looks up your payment info. Both ways process the transaction basically the same from that point on.

This isn't running the transaction through Google or Apple Pay like an in-game purchase would do, racking up large transactions mommy and daddy end up paying.

Re:Walmart

[tripleevenfall]

As if any other big chain retailer is different...

Anyway, this story is about a better way to mobile-pay, IMO. QR scanning rates higher than the "touch your phone to the pad" customer experience. At least it seems more reliable, in my experience. And scanners are always present at checkouts today... the specialized pads for proximity readers are not.

Re:Walmart

[Anonymous Coward]

When was the last time you had to set your credit card on the counter-top to charge? A lot of people think nothing of asking the bar-tender to charge their phone.

Re:Walmart

[butchersong]

Well, I guess I'll burn some karma. It is still cheap garbage though. I try not to be elitist about this sort of thing but if you do your grocery shopping at Walmart you're eating the wrong stuff. It is mostly crap I wouldn't feed my dog and while you might argue that other chains have similar content, the fact is that those other stores at least make an effort to have a few isles of healthy "hipster" foods. People of course claim that the cheap prices make it a good option for the lower income consumer but if you observe the majority of those consumers in the store... they don't exactly look starved for calories.

Re:Walmart

[Holi]

Why would I want Walmart storing my payment info when I have a nice little card that does it for me? No one should be storing payment info, it just becomes a target for hackers.

Re:Walmart

[Anonymous Coward]

Right, so I want to have an app for every store. One for WalMart, one for Bev Mo, one for Best Buy, one for Safeway, one for whatever else. I want to link a BANK ACCOUNT to it. You know that is how they do it - there are two points for these guys - 1) get out of the credit card fee, and 2) collect a lot of data on customers. With Apple Pay and Android Pay they get the credit card fee and they can't collect data since they get a pseudo card number. I do NOT want all these stores to have apps with access to my bank account. Way to much potential downside there...

Re:Walmart

[Anonymous Coward]

I try not to be elitist about this sort of thing but if you do your grocery shopping at Walmart you're eating the wrong stuff.

How's that?

They have fresh fruits and vegetables (and better quality ones than at my local grocery), greens like lettuces and spinaches, meats, fresh peppers, mushrooms, cheeses, etc. They carry both "organic" and whatever food was called before that label came along.

What is wrong with home cooked meals made from fresh ingredients? Not trying to troll, I just honestly don't see your point. Their food does not seem materially different from what's at the grocery store a few blocks down the street. Both have junk foods, but you don't have to buy that at either place.

Re:Walmart

[Vairon]

Walmart has a better selection of Amy's(tm) organic frozen food that is less expensive than most of the other generic grocery stores in my city. The exact same frozen organic food items are available at Nature's Grocer and Whole Foods in my city but are more expensive. Why should I pay more for the same item at those other stores? Now granted there are some additional brands of frozen organic foods at Nature's Grocer and Whole Foods but given the increased cost I don't see a reason to shop there.

Re:Walmart

[jratcliffe]

Well, I guess I'll burn some karma. It is still cheap garbage though. I try not to be elitist about this sort of thing but if you do your grocery shopping at Walmart you're eating the wrong stuff.

The grocery section of my closest WalMart looks pretty much identical to most grocery stores (i.e. ShopRite, Kroger, etc.), with a large produce section, etc. When it comes to organic products, they have a pretty decent array (although I don't see any reason to pay the organic tax). They don't have the wide array of excellent cheeses that my local Whole Foods offers, but that's not really their competition.

Re:Walmart

[jratcliffe]

Why would you want to link a bank account to this app, or any app? Just use a credit card.

Re:Walmart

[Anonymous Coward]

Walmart, and every other retailer, has your credit card information if you have scanned it or used the EMV thing. Walmart is just more open about it. And they have pretty good security too.

Re:Walmart

[JoeyRox]

I try not to be elitist about this sort of thing

If you have to exert effort to not appear elitist then you're an elitist so might as well own it. Back in the real world, Walmart's food prices are significantly below the supermarket chains and allow families to feed themselves with better quality food than what would otherwise be possible if they had to pay higher prices. The harsh realities of how poor feed themselves might not make for touchy, feel-good sentiments but it makes for full bellies.

Re:Walmart

[Austerity Empowers]

The assumption is the quality of their grocery isle matches teh quality of all the other isles. I like the selection walmart has compared to the local grocery store. But I'd rather pay by ApplePay and not be bothered with their crap. I will just pay the old fashioned slow way if and when i have to use walmart. Hopefully they will realize they can fire a few more people by having us all move through their faster and give up on this idiocy, it's about the only language they understand.

Re:Walmart

[RobotRunAmok]

You're a hipster classist who really does not know as much about nutrition as he thinks he does.

Re:Walmart

[Trailer Trash]

They sell the same stuff as the other grocery stores around here, just at lower prices. The produce is sourced locally where possible (like Kroger and Publix).

Why do you think they sell different stuff?

Or are you the typical cluefuck elitist who thinks that only organic overpriced stuff from Whole Foods is "healthy"?

Re:Walmart

[Anonymous Coward]

I've not tried any sort of "touch your phone..." type of payment system, but I recently tried to use a restaurant's new QR code-based loyalty app. The cashier was unable to read my phone's screen with her scanner. This appeared to be a common-enough occurrence that she immediately suggested turning up the brightness (I had it set to auto).

Although it was perfectly readable to the human eye, it would not scan until I boosted it up, so at least for me, the QR code method has not been "user-friendly."

Re:Walmart

[sexconker]

It's all about the Benjamins, although I don't suppose we can call them that if we're paying with a phone app.

It's all about the Tubmans.

Re:Walmart

[sexconker]

Well, I guess I'll burn some karma. It is still cheap garbage though. I try not to be elitist about this sort of thing but if you do your grocery shopping at Walmart you're eating the wrong stuff. It is mostly crap I wouldn't feed my dog and while you might argue that other chains have similar content, the fact is that those other stores at least make an effort to have a few isles of healthy "hipster" foods. People of course claim that the cheap prices make it a good option for the lower income consumer but if you observe the majority of those consumers in the store... they don't exactly look starved for calories.

Any "Super" Walmart will have a full grocery, including the same produce from the same farms and distributors as other supermarkets in the area.

Re:Walmart

[Anonymous Coward]

Frozen prepared food is still crap, even if it is organic.

Re:Walmart

[LunaticTippy]

I eat like a goddamn hippie and shop at walmart sometimes. They have the best price on pinto beans and dry whole milk out of all the stores along my route to work. They have a lot of garbage like any store, but they have excellent prices on staples. I go out of my way to shop at walmart occasionally since everyone else seems determined to charge a lot for basic items. Why are dry beans >$1/lb everywhere except walmart?

Re:Walmart

[DogDude]

and they can't collect data since they get a pseudo card number

... why would you think that these software black boxes aren't using a SECOND Id to track people? Do you seriously think that Google and Apple are setting up payment systems because they're such nice people? Of course they're mining the shit out of that data.

Re: Walmart

[Anonymous Coward]

Is it slow ? In 30 years the part of shopping that's bothered me has never ONCE been "oh damn I have to swipe my card now"

Re:Walmart

[hawaiian717]

IMO the customer experience for Apple Pay is far superior to a QR code system like Walmart Pay. Presuming an iPhone 6, because that's what I have. On the iPhone 6, I hold the phone up over the NFC sensor, the phone wakes up and prompts me to authenticate via Touch ID, I do and it's done. For Walmart Pay or other QR code systems I'd have to wake up and unlock the phone, find and open the app, find the QR code scanner, hold the phone over the QR code. And my phone has to be online, so no good if I'm overseas in Airplane Mode (I've used Apple Pay in airplane mode).

And about those NFC pads... You know all those new Ingenico iSC 250 readers Walmart installed to accept EMV chip cards? They all have NFC built-in. Walmart simply disabled it.

Re:Walmart

[Anonymous Coward]

Problems with QR, in my experience, are when the screen randomly turns off, or rotates, or it just fails to focus on the code. None of those are problems with NFC...my experience is based off using both heavily (QR codes etc...on airline apps for checkin, NFC for Apple Pay for everything). When QR decides it doesn't work it takes up to 20-30 seconds of jiggling etc....to get it working. When Apple Pay doesn't work, it's because it didn't get a good enough read of my fingerprint which takes 2-3 seconds to read again.

Re:Walmart

[ArmoredDragon]

The assumption is the quality of their grocery isle matches teh quality of all the other isles.

It does. I used to work for a major food distributor in the southwest, and we sold walmart the same bag of doritos, m&m's, and produce that we sold to other stores in the region. There really is no difference.

But people who say otherwise actually believe organic food is magically better for you simply because it costs more, even though it isn't. And in some ways is worse, such as increased risk of foodborn pathogens from cow shit based fertilizer vs the synthetic fertilizer used in modern agriculture. Some produce is worse than others in this regard, such as raw organic alfalfa sprouts, which have such a high risk of contamination that walmart refuses to carry them. Whole Foods doesn't seem to mind the risk though.

Re:Walmart

[Anonymous Coward]

Not necessarily. It can even be fresher than non-frozen food.
http://www.eatingwell.com/nutr...

Re:Walmart

[Anonymous Coward]

Explosive bloody diarrhea from Whole Foods pathogens is completely different than explosive bloody diarrhea from Walmart pathogens. Everyone knows the Whole Foods diarrhea is clean and wholesome and the Walmart diarrhea is low class and infested with DNA from Bentonville. Also, the Whole Foods version is actually healthy for others close to you because it's much more likely to be both organic and GMO free.

Re:Walmart

[plover]

Anyway, this story is about a better way to mobile-pay, IMO. QR scanning rates higher than the "touch your phone to the pad" customer experience. At least it seems more reliable, in my experience. And scanners are always present at checkouts today... the specialized pads for proximity readers are not.

Smartphone based barcodes are often difficult for scanners to read. Scanners are primarily designed to pick up reflected light - the scanner transmits light, it bounces off the barcode, and the scanner receives the image. But a phone's screen is backlit with a pulse-width modulated array of flickering LEDs; flickering that is not in sync with the scanner's imaging sensor. They are not all engineered to read light transmissive screens. Some scanners have the option to turn off the light when reading a phone screen, which can help

The "touching a phone to a pad" experience depends largely on the technology of the phone. Samsung's MST is a pure hack, and whether or not it works depends entirely on the geometry of the heads concealed in the reader -- a reader that wasn't designed to read anything but a mag stripe on a card.

An NFC phone is very reliable because NFC readers are specifically engineered to read contactless devices. They are much more reliable than either Samsung's MFT or smartphone QR codes. Right now NFC is more secure than mag stripes, but less secure than EMV. They're much faster and more convenient than EMV or QR codes. The QR codes are probably more secure than NFC cards (for right now) and are probably on par with Apple Pay, but there's no way of knowing how secure any of the back end systems are.

Re:Walmart

[uncqual]

My local Walmart doesn't have the selection of my local major chain -- but then I don't really need six different brands of capers, especially none of the six are actually the brand I'm looking for specifically.

Produce is, of course, by nature more variable than packaged foods. However, my Walmart has less selection of produce and poorer quality than any of the major supermarket chains around me - but it is cheaper.

Some of the produce issues at Walmart appear to be storage problems. For example, Walmart bananas frequently turn light brown overall a day or two after purchase -- it doesn't affect the flavor or texture, but it's a bit ugly. I suspect this is because they get exposed to excessively cold temperatures in the distribution centers, during transportation, or in storage at the store. At least one other major chains in the area have specially designed and isolated controlled climate rooms just for bananas in their warehouses, I suspect Walmart does not.

Some of the produce issues at Walmart seem to be that they buy a different "grade" of product. This is quite noticeable with russet potatoes ("baking potatoes"). Walmart's potatoes are wildly inconsistent from week to week. Sometimes they are all tiny, sometimes mostly huge and sometimes are all oddly shaped (for example, looking a bit more like dumbbells or curved). Sometimes they all have cuts on them, some "healed over" and some not -- the former may be from damage from farm equipment some time before harvest, the latter from damage during harvest or processing. Oddly, it seems that the defects vary from week to week (and I even open the boxes under the display areas so it's not just the customers have "picked over" the selection). It seems that Walmart buys "rejects" if they can find them. I almost never see such oddly shaped/damaged potatoes at any of three other local (chain) grocery stores I shop at, let alone entire displays and boxes full of potatoes with "this week's" defect. Oh, the Walmart potatoes also regularly have "bad spots" inside them, something I've only encountered VERY rarely in literally decades of eating baked potatoes about once a week from other sources but which I experience about 1/2 the time with Walmart potatoes.

Some of the produce issues at Walmart are freshness issues and I can't tell if these are the result of the product just not being purchased fast enough and sitting on the display too long (and not being purged) or something upstream - either buying produce that is already on its last legs or buying trailerfuls when it's cheap and storing it too long. I suspect the problem in some cases is upstream though -- for example, bulk carrots seem to sell pretty well and they are quite durable, yet the ones at the Walmart are often so rubbery and limp that if you pick up a typical sized carrot by the "fat" end and extend it out parallel to the floor, the other end will droop up to two inches. It's hard to imagine that in a fairly busy Walmart carrots would be sitting for a week or more "on display".

Re:Walmart

[Anonymous Coward]

Those are all valid complaints. However, they have nothing to do with the nutritive value of the foodstuffs in question. Droopy carrots are one thing. What butchersong is claiming is another thing entirely:

"[I]f you do your grocery shopping at Walmart you're eating the wrong stuff. It is mostly crap I wouldn't feed my dog..."

Everything sold at a WalMart grocery is stuff that's entirely fit for human consumption. Maybe butchersong only feeds his dog foodstuff locally sourced from his Whole Foods, but I'd feel fine feeding anything that's fit for human consumption to my dog, as long as it was a meat or vegetable and wasn't something like chocolate that's toxic to canines.

Re:Walmart

[uncqual]

I was responding to Trailer Trash's (what an appropriate name for this topic!) assertion that "They sell the same stuff as the other grocery stores around here, just at lower prices." which isn't quite true in my area as quality of produce and selection overall are not as good at Walmart.

Agreed that any food product bought in any major chain store is going to be "safe" to eat almost all the time.

Re:Walmart

[Anonymous Coward]

All Apple (and the card companies) can see is you spent some money and the location, not what you purchased.

Re:Walmart

[davester666]

You don't want to. Walmart REQUIRES you to. This payment method is so Walmart can get out of paying credit card fee's and have sole discretion over whether to permit you to return something.

Re:Walmart

[jratcliffe]

No, they don't. Where are you getting the idea that this app requires connecting a bank account? You input a credit card or debit card number.

Re:Walmart

[Drethon]

They sell the same stuff as the other grocery stores around here, just at lower prices. The produce is sourced locally where possible (like Kroger and Publix).

Why do you think they sell different stuff?

Or are you the typical cluefuck elitist who thinks that only organic overpriced stuff from Whole Foods is "healthy"?

Most Walmart brand food lately seems to be listed as organic. Not sure I'm thrilled with this since I'm fine with cheap and 99% as nutritious.

Re:Walmart

[cdrudge]

For the same reason why you'd store your payment information with Google, Apple, Samsung, Paypal, or any other payment service. Convenience.

Re: Walmart

[Austerity Empowers]

Have you been shopping recently? You don't swipe cards anymore, you stick them in and wait 30s.

Re:Walmart

[Austerity Empowers]

I have bene known to buy vegetables on occasion. I know this is unamerican, probably a terrorist act, but I have done it. And frequently the Walmart I use in the Austin, TX area has been known to source vegetables that are as fresh or fresher than the higher priced and overfull grocery store across the street. This is a local statement, vegetables at Walmart do not seemed to be sourced from national sources (unlike say, Target, which does not have very good produce) and in my case they seem very fresh. This may not apply in your area.

Yes, I agree, Doritos are Doritos, provided they are Doritos and not store brand nacho corn chips. I would not trust Walmart with that latter thing. I will say that Walmart's aisle of brand name junk food is twice the size of my grocery store, with more variety. I can say that across the board for the store, there is more selection in general. Part of the issue is that my local grocery chain has very little competition.

Re:Walmart

[david_thornley]

And, since Walmart puts downward pressure on wages, it creates more poor people to need to shop at Walmart. It's the cycle of nature. Or something.

Re:Walmart

[david_thornley]

In what way is trying to scan an image on my phone more convenient than using my credit card? I carry one all the time anyway, and it's less likely to need recharging at an inconvenient time than my phone. There are some places online that have my credit card information, for my convenience, but in those cases I can't just swipe a card and have them receive the money, like I do at Walmart and other local stores.

Re: Walmart

[RockDoctor]

You don't swipe cards anymore, you stick them in and wait 30s.

Either you missed a decimal point ("3.0s"), have a problem with your card - dirty contacts maybe - or your retail experience involves a retailer with a fucked-up IT system.

Re:Walmart

[Anonymous Coward]

I try not to be elitist about this sort of thing

If you have to exert effort to not appear elitist then you're an elitist so might as well own it. Back in the real world, Walmart's food prices are significantly below the supermarket chains and allow families to feed themselves with better quality food than what would otherwise be possible if they had to pay higher prices. The harsh realities of how poor feed themselves might not make for touchy, feel-good sentiments but it makes for full bellies.

Do *you* shop for groceries at Wal-Mart? You really don't know what you're talking about.

no thanks..

[Anonymous Coward]

i'm waiting for Apple Pay

Fuck That

[Anonymous Coward]

One more fucking way to pay that isn't convenient everywhere. Fuck Walmart.

captcha: simplify (go figure)

Re:Fuck That

[Anonymous Coward]

If only we could come up with some payment system that was universally accepted, didn't require a whole lot of expensive technology to set up, and couldn't be used to track and profile you. We could even put pictures of famous leaders on it.

Ah forget it. Too complicated. Let's stick with QR readers, phone tapping, 6 competing standards and whatever the next horse-shit idea is. It's just more fucking convenient.

Of course.

[Anonymous Coward]

It's well-known that if you pay "on credit", that is where there is no physical money changing hands, it doesn't "feel" real. Many people then spend more. So it's no surprise that walmart would support this, better yet, through a handy-dandy "app" of their own devise. If you know what's good for your own finances, you pay cash. If you don't, well, it's your funeral. And hey, it's a new fancy play-thing! Also your money, but who cares. It's shiny! and New! Spend! Like a good little consumer! Spend! It's the American Way!

Wow!

[Anonymous Coward]

It's only 10000 times heavier than cash or a credit card, and just as useful to a thief!

Re:Wow!

[viperidaenz]

... and can't be used unless unlocked!

Re:Wow!

[Holi]

What do you mean, you have them save your credit card info on their servers, which means their servers are a one stop shop for hackers.

Re:Wow!

[viperidaenz]

Do they save your credit card information?
That depends on their payment gateway provider. They may just save an authorisation token that would only let Walmart receive the funds.

If someone steals your wallet with your credit card in it, they instantly have your credit card number.
If they steal your phone with a payment app, they need to unlock the phone first to use it, which can be remotely wiped or have its authorisation revoked.

My bank lets me use my phone for contactless payments. My credit card details aren't stored on my phone. The app won't respond to NFC unless the phone is unlocked.

Usage is consent

[thoromyr]

"Walmart can get insights into consumer behavior, though it says it won't use the data without a shopper's permission." ...and using Walmart Pay will be considered consent. But I guess the honest statement of "we will data mine the fuck out of all purchase information we can snag, and by using Walmart Pay you maximize our opportunity" doesn't sound so nice.

Re:Usage is consent

[Tyrannosaur]

How would using a plastic card be any different? Unless you use a different credit card every time or use cash for everything, the companies track you through your credit card number.

Yes we should be wary of spying and tracking and youhaveit, but let's not delude ourselves that this technology isn't decades old already.

Re:Usage is consent

[crabbz]

If Walmart Pay is (eventually) used in other stores then Walmart gets to track what you buy in those other stores too. If it isn't accepted in other stores then what's the point? Do we want a different pay app for every store?

Re:Usage is consent

[thoromyr]

I get it, we shouldn't call out the half-truths or misleading statements made by corporate mouth-pieces because it is nothing new and everyone knows they will do whatever they want anyway.

Btw: what do you mean by "this technology"? Are you trying to say that QR codes are decades old? Or were you oblivious to the story and the comment you were responding to? Because you do realize (I hope) neither one was actually about what people normally call technology, right?

Re:Usage is consent

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple Pay and Android Pay do not give the merchant the real credit card number. They use a tokenized deal that will be different and cannot allow them to track. So the big businesses don't like it. Also, the Walmart deal will be connected to your bank and not to a credit card. Thus, by causing some danger to you (by having this info available to be exfiltrated), they get out of paying the credit card processing fee. Yeah for Walmart, bad for the customer...

Re: Usage is consent

[Anonymous Coward]

The real reason for this is because Walmart spends *millions* (might be billions by now) of dollars a year on CC fees. Now they have an alternative, so they can begin to reduce that cost. This is not altogether a bad thing.

Re:Usage is consent

[starless]

How would using a plastic card be any different? Unless you use a different credit card every time or use cash for everything, the companies track you through your credit card number.

Yes we should be wary of spying and tracking and youhaveit, but let's not delude ourselves that this technology isn't decades old already.

Except a phone can potentially provide a whole host of additional information ranging from contacts to photos. (Which one "agrees" to when installing the app.)

Re: Usage is consent

[jratcliffe]

How would this reduce their credit card fees? You're still paying with a credit or debit card...

Re:Usage is consent

[TheRealMindChild]

They already do this. I've worked on plenty of Walmart "basket" data from IRI and Neilson

Re:Usage is consent

[Tyrannosaur]

"this technology" being "tracking you as a consumer by what you buy with plastic in our stores"

Re:Usage is consent

[DogDude]

I think you're incorrect. Just because a credit card number is tokenized doesn't mean that they can't still track you. You're being tracked across countless websites without a credit card at all. It's just another ID. I guarantee that Apple and Android aren't setting up payment systems for free. They're mining the shit out of all of their data.

Re: Usage is consent

[Applehu Akbar]

Secured NFC schemes, which use one-time tokens rather than Walmart's messy kludge, reduce card fraud. This means lower fees in the long run.

Re: Usage is consent

[hawaiian717]

Originally the CurrentC scheme was going to promote direct debit from bank accounts using ACH, rather than using credit/debit cards. ACH means lower fees but also removes the consumer protections associated with credit and debit cards. Walmart was a backer of CurrentC, but they must have seen that CurrentC was going nowhere quickly and launched their own similar Walmart Pay system, which does allow credit/debit cards. I don't know if it also supports ACH.

Re:Usage is consent

[Anonymous Coward]

You need to stop talking out of your ass.

Apple and Android Pay are implementations of EMV. As has been documented, Apple gets 0.15% of the purchase paid by the card issuers because Apple implements their own token process, which is why not all cards work with their implementation. Google gets zero because they are using Visa's standard token implementation and Visa gives it away for free.The token is a one-time use identifier. The only thing Apple and Google can mine are the transactions, not what was purchased, which is the same information the card issuer receives.

Re:Usage is consent

[dcooper_db9]

Setting aside the legitimate security and privacy implications, if the vendor can avoid the credit card processing fee that is good for consumers. When you consider that grocers have a profit margin between 1 and 3 percent the credit card company is making as much as the retailer. And to cover the fee retailers have to raise prices for everyone. Even the threat of new competition has forced the credit card companies to negotiate better terms.

Re: Usage is consent

[mbstone]

Actually Wal-Mart appears to be less interested in data-mining you than are big grocers like Kroger, Ralph's, Safeway etc. You don't need a loyalty card to get Wal-Mart's best prices on groceries.

While Wal-Mart could theoretically match your purchases with your debit card data, and maybe they do, you're welcome to pay cash and be anonymous. Compare with the many grocery chains that require you to pay a significant premium for anonymity (i.e. they require the use of loyalty cards to get anywhere near reasonable prices).

Obligatory XKCD

[elrous0]

https://xkcd.com/927/

Re:Obligatory XKCD

[Anonymous Coward]

I hate that one. It only reflects the ramp up of a new field of venture. That phase is amusing and only somewhat inconvenient. The next phase, culling among the competitors is already a bit more annoying, but the last phase is always consolidation and market lock-in, and it is infuriating.

I do not look forward to a world where there are 2 or 3 major retailers only, all of them only accepting there own *-Pay.

great plan!

[Anonymous Coward]

"card information is stored on Walmart servers."

great plan, what could go wrong?

Re: great plan!

[Anonymous Coward]

see: Target, breached

All these apps?

[Anonymous Coward]

So now I have to install all of these apps in order to pay at different places? Great.

Perfect thing for thug living

[Anonymous Coward]

I can see how this will play out: My roommate woke up and saw my phone on the counter. Oops, off he went to WalMart!

Re:Perfect thing for thug living

[Anonymous Coward]

First it requires you unlock your phone and know its pin then it requires a pin number to access the part of the application that has the Walmart pay functionality.

How long until Food Stamp integration

[Dust038]

Honestly once they get enough data Wal-Mart should pair up with State Food Stamp Programs to pair QR Codes with Families in Need to get data on if Stamps are being properly used in the amounts given to an Individual or Family. It sounds invasive I know, but this is the perfect medium to gather this type of data. I don't know about the rest of you but I have seen enough single parents trying to wrangle 2 or 3 children and write a check, its a bottleneck in the Checkout process. QR Those Food Stamps and Alleviate Stress. But on the big picture it is a great way to throw targeted adds your way or automatically apply coupons found in Wal-Mart and competitor ads (More difficult but IT has a lot of time on their hands sometimes).

Re:How long until Food Stamp integration

[Anonymous Coward]

Properly? Care to explain who will set up the guidelines? I think if it's classified as food (which is non-taxed in my state, makes things easy) then you can use your SNAP benefits on it. If it's not food, then you don't get it. Don't like that? Then change what is considered food - soda should be classified like candy, which is taxed.

Summary is wrong

[Anonymous Coward]

Customer scans a QR code that is displayed on the register.

Extension of existing service

[jratcliffe]

WalMart has had their Smart Shopper service around for a while - you scan in the receipt using the bar code at the bottom, and the system compares what you bought to sale prices at nearby stores, and refunds you any difference (to a WalMart gift card). It's a pretty explicit quid pro quo - they get the data on your purchases (not just one receipt, but over time, unless you're going to bother to create a new account for each shopping trip, which nobody is going to do), and you get some amount of cash back (usually works out to 2-3% of my purchase).

The payment app integrates that, automatically spending any gift card balance, and then charging your credit card.

"also uses"?

[Anonymous Coward]

the technology is different than Apple, Samsung, and Android Pay,...

Note: Samsung Pay also uses magnetic secure transmission (MST) to make purchases

Also, in addition to what? Not WalMart Pay, because it clearly states the technology is different. So what's the point of this non sequitur?

Good for all those Obamaphones

[Anonymous Coward]

Now people can buy Cheetos and Twinkies and blue drink with their EBT accounts and Obamaphones.

Oh Canada

[Anonymous Coward]

Canada has had contactless payments terminals in all stores for years. Universally tap your phone with Apple Pay or any other NFC service and your item is paid for. I would say merely a handful of stores- and none of the big ones- don't "take tap".

works everywhere vs works at one store

[Anonymous Coward]

Why would I want to use this, which will only work at Walmart stores, when I could just use Apple Pay which can work anywhere?

Re:works everywhere vs works at one store

[Anonymous Coward]

Because you wouldn't want to use a closed source iphone with Apple's walled app garden.
Because Apple Pay does not work at most grocery stores.

What a relief!

[PopeRatzo]

I was worried that shopping for pickles and 32-packs of toilet paper would actually require me to engage the muscles in my hand to reach into my pocket and pull out a credit card. Those things aren't exactly light you know. Well, they are light, but thank God I won't have to go through all that any more. I'll be able to just cruise past the checkout in my mobility scooter and wave my Consumers Cellular phone and be on my way.

Re:What a relief!

[ooloorie]

I was worried that shopping for pickles and 32-packs of toilet paper would actually require me to engage the muscles in my hand to reach into my pocket and pull out a credit card.

And by "credit card", you mean the insecure, expensive, fraud-prone payment mechanism created by a small number of monopolistic companies and their government cronies; you know, what arrogant rich people like you use.

Re:What a relief!

[PopeRatzo]

And by "credit card", you mean the insecure, expensive, fraud-prone payment mechanism created by a small number of monopolistic companies and their government cronies; you know, what arrogant rich people like you use.

Naw, man. I use currency. I just figured that would be way to much work for your average Wal-Mart shopper, what with the counting and the gazintas and everything. Plus, those bills get heavy, you know, and the average Wal-Mart shopper has the muscle definition of a frond under all that avoirdupois.

And before you ask me for a citation...

http://www.peopleofwalmart.com...

Re:What a relief!

[ooloorie]

Yeah, like so many people who pretend to stand up for the poor and sick, you really look down your nose at them and despise them. Thanks for showing your true colors... again. You're despicable.

Re:What a relief!

[PopeRatzo]

You're despicable.

https://youtu.be/PfsTk5i7mPw

You are wrong on two fronts...

[gosand]

I will first say that I don't shop at WalMart, but I do know:

1. They have plenty of fresh produce there, including a deli. Maybe not the older stores, but I think all the new ones probably do. One-stop-shopping and all.

2. Calories don't make people fat. Being fat is due to the body's inability to properly regulate fat storage. One of the major contributors to the process of fat regulation is insulin. What has the greatest impact on insulin in your body? Carbs, and in particular grains and sugars. Look at the amounts of these two things in the cheap foods that lower income people eat. (and it really extends to everyone, not just lower income people) Read the book Good Calories, Bad Calories. (or a more layman-friendly version of it called Why We Get Fat: And What To Do About It.

Re: You are wrong on two fronts...

[Anonymous Coward]

You left out industrial grain oil, soy beans, legumes, processed food and excess booze. Don't eat any food not recognizable as food by a cave man or any food not tested for 12,500 years.

Re: You are wrong on two fronts...

[gosand]

To me "grains" means grains and any grain products. You are right, I did leave out beans and legumes. And if you don't consume those things, it pretty much takes away most processed foods. I do have concessions for myself - cheese, dark chocolate (60%+), wine and some booze - but no beer. I know it's not by-the-book paleo, but it works for me.

Re: You are wrong on two fronts...

[david_thornley]

You'd be surprised at how little someone from the Neolithic would recognize. Most food crops have been heavily modified from their natural form. It used to be by hybridization and selective breeding and things like that, but it's still genetic engineering.

Hurry Up And Pay!

[Anonymous Coward]

Meanwhile the clerk is scanning one item every 15 seconds. That's more than 8 minutes for a moderately filled cart and could be 30 minutes for one of the 5foot wide powerchair riding customers.

walmart pay is slow

[renegade600]

I have used Walmart pay several times and in spite of Walmart promises of faster checkout - it is slower to check out. By the time you unlock the phone, navigate to the walmart app, scroll down to get to walmart pay, verify your identity, scan the keypad, wait for approval, you could have scanned your debit card and be done with it. Walmart pay should at least have a widget to make eliminate a few steps.

the keypad even timeout on me a few times while getting to the app and had to get the cashier reinitialized walmart pay.

I wish my bank used samsung pay, it is so much faster and I have used it at walmart a couple of times using credit card with no problems..

Re:walmart pay is slow

[Anonymous Coward]

We need to hurry up and raise the minimum wage so Wal-Mart will fire most of its employees and become an automated amazon where I can pick up my shit locally if I want. Wal-Mart execs throw around automation as if its a bad thing but automation increases per-person productivity. So automation is going to happen eventually unless we completely rework our economy I'd rather automation benefit me sooner than later.

Re:walmart pay is slow

[thegarbz]

I wish companies would stop it with the proprietary crap and just get to a system which works universally the way Google Wallet used to, except without the effort of working around the geographical restrictions it arbitrarily imposed.

Re: walmart pay is slow

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you tried it on an iPhone? People keep telling me they work better.

Re:walmart pay is slow

[Anonymous Coward]

Thing that really grinds my gears #23424: People using the word "navigate" to describe finding things on computers/phones.

Re:walmart pay is slow

[SuseLover]

Same thing with the chipped credit cards, they are so much slower than swiping. You must stick it into the reader and wait, and wait, and wait.

I don't see the "advantage" of the chipped cards at all. If someone steals it they just plug it in like I would and no-one will know it's not me unless they check ID (which almost nowhere does - I don't go back to places that don't check).

Re:walmart pay is slow

[Anonymous Coward]

the advantage is the stores don't have a giant easily stealble database of credit card numbers laying around waiting for someone to steal your identity.

Easier, faster shopping

[Dracos]

Just open three more checkout lanes (real checkout lanes, self-checkout doesn't count). Walmart knows how many lanes they need open because they study customer traffic patterns, but their standard operating procedure is to open three fewer than what the data requires.

One more reason why the Walmart store experience is openly hostile to customers.

Re:Easier, faster shopping

[jratcliffe]

Just open three more checkout lanes (real checkout lanes, self-checkout doesn't count). Walmart knows how many lanes they need open because they study customer traffic patterns, but their standard operating procedure is to open three fewer than what the data requires.

Huh? How do you determine what the data "require," and how do you know they're opening three fewer than that? There's clearly a balance for WalMart - the more lanes that are open, the higher staffing costs are, but the higher customer satisfaction is. Fewer lanes, lower costs, but lower satisfaction due to longer waits. Are you saying that the data say "the optimal balance between cost and customer satisfaction is to have 12 lanes open," and WalMart then says "OK, let's open nine"?

Re: Easier, faster shopping

[thundercattt]

Based on having an ex girlfriend work at the local Walmart, they are 3 short because 3 cashiers called in "sick". Just the local store had 100 hrs per week of missed time by employees. She was a cashier, scheduled 10hrs a week then called every day to work.

Re:Easier, faster shopping

[SvnLyrBrto]

Many stores adhere to a de-facto standard that there should never be more than three people waiting in line to get to the register.

Target, for example, has employees monitor the checkout lines and opens extra registers if the ones that are open get too crowded. They'll also direct you to the shorter lines if they're simply imbalanced. Walgreens has a unified line for all the registers. But if there's more than three people in line, there's a hidden button for a cashier to press that will trigger an announcement over the store's speakers. When you hear a recorded voice announce: "I see three" at Walgreens, thats a signal for everyone to drop what they're doing, go up front, and work their registers to clear the line.

It's been a long time since I've had occasion to shop at Walmart. But I do remember the experience being fairly frustrating, with poor customer service. I don't recall if that carried through to the checkout lines though.

Re:Easier, faster shopping

[jratcliffe]

I've heard similar calls at WalMart ("all register-trained associates to the front immediately," or something along those lines). I'm still puzzled by the OP's claim that WalMart is intentionally opening a sub-optimal number of lanes (and very specifically, three lanes too few).

one issue

[Anonymous Coward]

That would necessitate that I shop at Walmart which I haven't done forever. This is their test to see if they're going to burn the bridge with Visa.

Sorry Walton's I ain't buying.

great idea..

[Anonymous Coward]

lets fragment the "mobile payment" market even further.

card transactions are pretty fast, and most people use them. walmart has self checkouts, too. the ONLY reason they're doing this is so THEY can absolutely tie your purchase to YOU and maintain a purchase history in-house.. PLUS, now they're on your phone, they can (more easily) track you throughout the store, too. it is most certainly not to save time at the checkout... that's just an unintended benefit.

I hate this crap

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously. My local Walmart has older card readers that can barely handle the software update that enabled this. Since they activated it back in May it has caused more problems than it solves.

Personally I love it when someone dismisses the screen with code and tries to swipe their card. Do it too soon and the terminal crashes. Hell at least twice now I've crashed the *registers* this way. I honestly don't think Walmart actually tested this as thoroughly as they should have.

5 Cents!

[Blinkin1200]

Every time I use my card and sign for the transaction, that signature costs Walmart 5 cents above and beyond the card fee.

Apple cut?

[Anonymous Coward]

Are they allowed to do this on iPhone? How about Apple cut?
see this

Just used it yesterday

[watermark]

I just used it yesterday. It went through quickly, no real hangups. The hardest part was the glare on the pos made scanning the qr difficult. Based on how impressed the clerk was with it, I'd guess it was her first time seeing it used.

There is no printed receipt. The receipt is stored "indefinitely" on your Walmart account. Which can be viewed on your phone. If you've ever used their "savings catcher", it looks just like that.

I linked my cc to the app. Some were saying it linked directly to your bank account. I don't recall that being an option, but I already had cc on file from online purchases. It just had me verify that was the card I wanted to use.

This qr system has the potential to be safer than even the chip system. The safely of the physical pos system matters less because it's my phone sending my info. Presumably, the pos is only responsible for showing the qr and saying "thanks" when it's done.

Many of the recent compromises were due to pos that were compromised. Their website has had my cc saved for a while now without issue, hoping it stays that way.

Wireless, Yay...

[Drethon]

I prefer my payment method that can't be scanned if I don't take it out.

The Last

[CimmerianX]

Am I the only one who still pays for stuff with cash?

I don't use credit cards... because dept racks up fast.....
I don't use my debit card.... because this links directly to my account. I'm sure if walmart pulled 10,000 instead of 10.00 I'd get my money back... but it would take 3-5 business days and wouldn't cover bounced checks or late fees.
I don't use any of the reward cards... because I know what data mining is and I'd rather not have everything I ever buy linked to my name.

I pulled out cash at a whole foods a few days ago and I actually heard the fucker behind me 'sigh' .

I still can't believe people care so little about privacy anymore.

Re:The Last

[jratcliffe]

Question is, how much is privacy in a certain area worth to you? I get 2% cash back by using a credit card. I get much bigger discounts by using a frequent shopper card at the grocery store. If I used cash, I would pay a lot more for my food, and I don't find the fact that the grocery store knows what I buy on an ongoing basis to be particularly intrusive.

Think of it this way - would you let Walmart put a microphone in your living room that records everything that's said? Probably not. Would you do it if they paid you $5,000/day? Most people would in a second.

Re:The Last

[david_thornley]

Credit card debt only racks up fast if you don't think of it as actual payment. Some people do have this problem, and should avoid credit cards, and some don't. I don't use debit cards online, but never had a problem locally. I normally don't really care if people know what I'm buying.

For privacy purposes, the advantage of using traceable reward cards and credit cards is that it establishes a pattern. If I paid for everything with cash, it would be harder to find out information about me that I don't mind sharing, but it would indicate that I do use cash for a lot of purchases. If I pay for most things with credit cards, but carry useful amounts of cash, I believe I can conceal what I want to conceal better.

There are things about me that you are not going to find out online. I am pretty open and traceable in those parts of my life I don't mind sharing with everybody, but that isn't everything.