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E-Cigarettes Emit Toxic Vapors, Says Study (upi.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from UPI: All electronic cigarettes emit harmful chemicals, and levels of those toxic compounds are affected by factors such as temperature, type and age of the device, a new study finds. In laboratory tests, scientists found that the heat-related breakdown of propylene glycol and glycerin -- two solvents found in most e-cigarette liquids -- causes emissions of toxic chemicals such as acrolein, acetaldehyde and formaldehyde. All three are either respiratory irritants or carcinogens, the investigators said. The researchers also found that levels of harmful chemicals in e-cigarette vapor increase between the first few puffs and later puffs as the device gets hotter, and with each use of the device.The new study was published July 27 in the journal Environmental Science and Technology. "Advocates of e-cigarettes say emissions are much lower than from conventional cigarettes, so you're better off using e-cigarettes," study corresponding author Hugo Destaillats said in a Berkeley news release. "I would say, that may be true for certain users -- for example, long-time smokers that cannot quit -- but the problem is, it doesn't mean that they're healthier. Regular cigarettes are super unhealthy. E-cigarettes are just unhealthy," he explained. The FDA will start regulating e-cigarettes like tobacco on August 8, 2016.
Clicking through to the article finds - for example - they are refering to Glycidol.
NIOSH in the USA recommends a limit of 25ppm over a 8 hour shift for workers.
The first link I find says 350l/hr are breathed, meaning 3000l/ work day.
This is about 4.5kg of air. 1ppm is 4.5mg, so 25ppm is 110mg.
It showed about 2 micrograms per puff in the graph at http://newscenter.lbl.gov/2016...
In order to exceed the NIOSH recommendations for worker safety for glycidol, you need to take _HALF_A_MILLION_ puffs.
PER DAY.
So, yes, they have found novel compounds in the vape, but at least some of these are considered 'safe' in other context at levels way above what is found in the smoke.
Bullshit. The federal government has both the power and duty regulate such devices.
How is that bullshit? Have you ever bought an e-cig, yourself? The companies selling them are very careful to tell you they are not smoking cessation devices, are not FDA approved for such a purpose, and they are also careful never to say anything like "this is safer than tobacco". Because they know they'd be shut down in a heartbeat if they said any such things.
So let's recap: I say something demonstrably true about Subject X. You say "bullshit" and make another true statement about Unrelated Subject Y. You're either deliberately deceitful (strawman) or having some kind of emotional reaction.
So dance clubs, concert venues, most Broadway shows - those are all death traps? Because most of those places go through *gallons* of propylene glycol a night - as where most eCig users are puffing 50ml every 3-6 months. THINK OF THE BROADWAY ACTORS
imagine a soft, buttery paw gently pressing down onto a sleeping soldier's face. forever.
There are good points all around this discussion, and a lack of organization. Let's try to clear this up a bit.
Different e-cigarette juices contain different carriers. Some specifically exclude chemicals which produce formaldehyde or, particularly, acetaldehyde, largely because acetaldehyde is known to cause popcorn lung in chronic, high exposure. Most high-quality formulations list their contents in full; and the content of lower-quality formulations is often known, but not readily-listed. High-quality formulations often don't contain chemicals producing acetaldehyde, and use propylene glycol as a carrier; lower-quality formulations also often omit those compounds, but frequently do not.
Different e-cigarettes have different temperatures and control mechanisms as well. They may prevent overheating, or they may reach high temperatures, or they may be designed for brief activation intervals with no temperature controls. Fast-reaction circuits necessarily draw high current, and will overheat without temperature management; thus cheap, fast-reaction circuits intended for brief activation will most often overheat and cause reactions, converting benign substances such as propylene glycol into dangerous substances such as formaldehyde.
Finally, gaseous vapors produce visual distortion when diluted. If you suck in 2cc of suspended smoke or vaporized PPG and then blow it out into the air, it will expand to a liter or more and demonstrate itself as a gray cloud. The real measures are temperature and mass of substance; the substance changes its standard volume at pressure and becomes diluted when diffusing through atmosphere, and so these are poor measurements.
Thus it is wholly-possible to engineer a substantially-safe e-cigarette, if examining specific concerns of e-cigarettes (conversion of chemicals to dangerous chemicals; high-temperature vapor irritating the throat and lungs; basic chemical content). This requires engineering of the compound itself and the delivery device.
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>Replying to myself: remember, these are the people who approved aspartame
You do realize that the LD50 of aspartame is high enough that you will die of water poisoning (or possibly caffiene poisoning) before you die from aspartame poisoning from drinking Diet Coke.
>by firing the FDA employee who cared about the studies and replacing him with someone who would play ball
Sounds like the FDA did the right thing. Based on its use as a sweetener, it's safer than the water it sweetens.
Here, you can do your own verification:
http://web.uvic.ca/~saroy20/chem361/aspartame.pdf
LD50 Oral - rat - > 10,000 mg/kg
http://static.diabetesselfmanagement.com/pdfs/DSM0310_012.pdf
Diet Coke contains 125 mg per 236 ml (or 530 mg/l)
http://www.newsmax.com/US/average-weight-man-woman-obese/2015/06/15/id/650546/
Average weight of American female: 166 lbs (75 kg)
Aspartame required to reach LD50: 750 grams
Litres of Diet Coke required to cause aspartame based death: 1415 litres. Same sitting.
http://www.medicaldaily.com/water-intoxication-just-how-much-h2o-does-it-take-kill-person-312958
LD50 of water: 6L / 165 lbs (75 kg), or 80 mg/kg.
Death would occur from water intoxication before 0.5% of the required total is consumed.
Maybe if you had read the Constitution you wouldn't be spouting such crap. The power starts in the Preamble:
We the people of the United States, in order to form a more perfect union, establish justice, insure domestic tranquility, provide for the common defense, promote the general welfare and secure the blessings of liberty to ourselves and our posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.
Then there's Article 1, Section 1:
All legislative powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.
In other words, Congress has been granted the power to pass legislation of any kind, which includes regulating things.
Then there's Section 7:
Every bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a law, be presented to the President of the United States; if he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the objections at large on their journal, and proceed to reconsider it.
Again, Congress passes legislation and the President approves or vetoes it. This includes regulating things.
Article 1, Section 8:
The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes, duties, imposts and excises, to pay the debts and provide for the common defense and general welfare of the United States; but all duties, imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;
The general welfare. In other words, the power to use taxes to inform people of the crap their ingesting or smoking to let them make an informed decision. It's also called regulation.
The last sentence of Section 8:
To make all laws which shall be necessary and proper for carrying into execution the foregoing powers, and all other powers vested by this Constitution in the government of the United States, or in any department or officer thereof.
Can you read and understand what those words mean? Congress has the power to make any law it deems necessary for any department to carry out its duties. That includes regulation.
Want more? I can keep going. There's an entire document I can go through to keep showing how you're ill-informed and just plain wrong.
We will bankrupt ourselves in the vain search for absolute security. -- Dwight D. Eisenhower
The problem with the gum and patches is that they don't really cover the physical/tactile aspect of smoking.
The real acid test is having a few beers and see if you crave a smoke. With gum and patches....no way, and I think most people that smoke can tell you that. Vaping on the other hand lets you follow through the motions if you feel the urge. Honestly after 2 years, I can walk through a cloud of cigarette smoke and not even be phased (to either smoke or vape), its really pretty awesome if you had a hard time quitting.
Second-hand cigarette smoke has not reliably been shown to increase cancer risk or cause respiratory damage to healthy individuals even when those individuals are children raised in smoker households.
I'm no scientist, but whenlots of scientists say something sciencey, and statisticians back them up, I tend to believe it, even if it's something I wish were untrue. You may make different choices. (I picked that link because I've been using Politifact a lot the last few months and while I sometimes disagree with their results I like that they explain their process and carefully list their sources.)
The secondhand smoke numbers are not as solid as, say, measurements of gravity; it's a very hard thing to measure directly, so the studies are mostly doing indirect statistical analyses. So it's always possible that there is another factor there that we are overlooking. But the vast preponderance of evidence points one way, and it's not the way you say it does.
So what? The quantities of methanol involved as a byproduct are tiny. You get more from tomatoes. Should people stop eating tomatoes too?
The only legit thing you've said is that aspartame is problematic for those with PKU, and no one is disputing that.
Educate yourself: https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/are-artificial-sweeteners-safe/
And you're just a sickening shill fuck for the sugar industry, trying to kill people with your deadly product. Stop lying, douchebag.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0273230002915424
http://annonc.oxfordjournals.org/content/15/10/1460
Any other lies you'd like me to debunk? Perhaps you'll move the goal towards formaldehyde so I can call you a liar for the third time?
>Inside the body, methanol breaks into formic acid and formaldehyde
Just like the 100% natural fruit juices it replaces. Except much, much less formaldehyde. So, thank you for proving my point, once again, that it is safer
https://whatdoesthesciencesay.wordpress.com/2010/06/13/aspartame-and-formaldehyde/
>Phenylalanine enters the brain, and it can build up there
Yes, if you have PKU you need to avoid it. You will know if you have this disease. Trust me.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phenylketonuria
For everyone else, the body has methods of removal.
>Some people have a reduced capacity for metabolizing Phenylalanine and are at increased risk of harmful side effects (headaches, depression, and schizophrenia)
Yes, they have PKU and were diagnosed at birth. If you have PKU, you know you are special and you know that the standard rules don't apply to you. Please don't find odd diseases to support your opinion, lest I prove sugar is deadly even in small quantities because... diabetes.
>Aspartic Acid is similar to MSG, and also builds up in the blood stream over time
Nice job trying to compare it to MSG, another maligned chemical that only causes problems with EXTREME overconsumption. This is getting boring. Feels like talking to the idiots who run the health food stores trying to sell me water as a cure for the flu.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monosodium_glutamate#Safety
>It's considered an excitotoxin and can cause problems in the high amounts than can result from common consumption of soda with aspertame.
You are basing this off the often discredited research from JW Olney, aren't you? He has produced reports on aspartame multiple times that scientists have wasted their time debunking. When it comes to Aspartame, he's proven completely unreliable. Any other proof than this debunked study?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6152304
discredited by
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0273230002915424
http://annonc.oxfordjournals.org/content/15/10/1460
These studies suck. What was the coil temp? 3.8v? What was the power level? I'll say this, for most light-use coils, 3.8v will torch the ever living hell out of the fluids, burn the wick, and impart a foul taste so bad you'll throw the coil/wick assembly away if it's a replaceable unit. Example, I have a 0.16 ohm quad-coil unit set to 75w, and it's putting 3.46v through the coil to get that rated power. They've got to be pushing over 450F on the coil, and at that temp, it will burn a cotton wick, rendering the coil useless unless it's rebuildable. These studies are funded by people that have a vested interest in either A) government overreach, B) the tobacco industry itself, or C) the nanny state (but I repeat myself).
None of this is valid. I've run the output of my vaporizer (a Wismec Reuleaux RX200 with a SMOK TFV4 tank) through the local gas spectrometer at the college around here, and damn if there aren't all of five chemicals: water, vegetable glycerin, flavor, menthol, and nicotine. Exactly what's on the label. Surprised? I'm not.
Lies, damn lies, and statistics.