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Snowden Questions WikiLeaks' Methods of Releasing Leaks (pcworld.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from PCWorld: Former U.S. National Security Agency contractor, Edward Snowden, has censured WikiLeaks' release of information without proper curation. On Thursday, Snowden, who has embarrassed the U.S. government with revelations of widespread NSA surveillance, said that WikiLeaks was mistaken in not at least modestly curating the information it releases. "Democratizing information has never been more vital, and @Wikileaks has helped. But their hostility to even modest curation is a mistake," Snowden said in a tweet. WikiLeaks shot back at Snowden that "opportunism won't earn you a pardon from Clinton [and] curation is not censorship of ruling party cash flows." The whistleblowing site appeared to defend itself earlier on Thursday while referring to its "accuracy policy." In a Twitter message it said that it does "not tamper with the evidentiary value of important historical archives." WikiLeaks released nearly 20,000 previously unseen DNC emails last week, which suggest that committee officials had favored Clinton over her rival Senator Bernie Sanders. The most recent leak consists of 29 voicemails from DNC officials.

35 of 165 comments (clear)

  1. I think it's pretty obvious by rsilvergun · · Score: 5, Interesting

    that Wikileaks just wanted to hurt Hilary & the DNC. The timing coupled with their unwillingness to clean out credit card numbers and individual donor names pretty much proves that. The question is why? Is Assange just bitter? I suppose he's got good reason to be (the trumped up rape charges). But if that's his reason he's not after justice, he just wants to see America burn.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:I think it's pretty obvious by JeffAtl · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The words Liberal, Conservative, Left, Right have pretty must lost all meaning. They've pretty much fallen into "no true scottsman" territory.

      The main dividing lines now are "open borders" vs "controlled immigration", free trade" vs "fair trade" - essentially Globalist vs Nationalist.

    2. Re:I think it's pretty obvious by Alomex · · Score: 5, Informative

      1,300 lawsuits against his companies are on the public record. Compare this to Mitt Romney or Michael Bloomberg to see what a shady character Trump is.

    3. Re:I think it's pretty obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Uh, I don't think you know what the word means.

      Are you suggesting that she's a conservative? Because, within the realm of US politics, that's the alternative.

      It's possible that she's:

      • Not liberal enough for your tastes.

      If you're a Bernie Sanders supporter, then the word you're looking for is progressive.

      But she's supposedly for:

      These are all liberal ideals (and many are considered progressive as well). The reality is that, it's Hillary Clinton, and therefore you have no idea what she is really for until it matters -- and then it may be too late for everyone. With the exception of reducing defense spending, none of these will ever be uttered by a conservative and a conservative would only mention it with respect to fixing runaway spending and waste (e.g., duplication); not reduction.

    4. Re:I think it's pretty obvious by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      Need to control for industry and the number of companies run by each.

      Can you tell us how many lawsuits the other companies have faced? How many of them were bogus or otherwise won?

    5. Re:I think it's pretty obvious by guruevi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      What exactly is wrong about publishing everything? The CC should've been reported, cancelled and identity theft insurance provided the minute the DNC knew about the leak. The timing may be convenient but they gave them time to notify their customers, fix their infrastructure etc - had they published immediate, people like you would've been complaining about irresponsibility.

      The fact is, the leaks happened. Nobody will die from it unlike Snowden's leak where full publish would've meant certain death to informants. It's a business hack vs a military intelligence hack. Nobody dies when Target loses CC, nobody dies when Microsoft loses source code.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    6. Re:I think it's pretty obvious by quenda · · Score: 2

      Feel free to dig up illegal activities by Trump and send them to Wikileaks if you can.

      To quote the man himself, " I could shoot somebody and I wouldn't lose voters. "
      Unless you have photos of Trump with an underage rent boy, his supporters don't care what he has done.

    7. Re:I think it's pretty obvious by quenda · · Score: 4, Informative

      Snowden is snubbing someone for not properly curating a leak, given that he released classified documents that were far more sensitive without usefully curating them.

      Snowden released documents to trusted journalists, he did not dump anything on the internet.

    8. Re:I think it's pretty obvious by Alomex · · Score: 5, Informative

      From USAToday:

      However, even by those measures, the number of cases in which Trump is involved is extraordinary. For comparison, USA TODAY analyzed the legal involvement for five top real-estate business executives: Edward DeBartolo, shopping-center developer and former San Francisco 49ers owner; Donald Bren, Irvine Company chairman and owner; Stephen Ross, Time Warner Center developer; Sam Zell, Chicago real-estate magnate; and Larry Silverstein, a New York developer famous for his involvement in the World Trade Center properties.

      To maintain an apples-to-apples comparison, only actions that used the developers' names were included. The analysis found Trump has been involved in more legal skirmishes than all five of the others---combined.

    9. Re:I think it's pretty obvious by SoftwareArtist · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What is the "everything" you think they should publish? Absolutely any information they can get their hands on, about anyone or anything, from any source, regardless of whether it has any importance to the public? I don't think so. Their latest dump of voicemails really went off the deep end. What is the value to the public from posting messages from random voters complaining that the DNC was favoring Sanders? If it had been a message from a DNC official, that could arguably be newsworthy. But at this point it just seems that Assange is posting anything he can get his hands on without the least consideration for whether it's newsworthy, or whether he's just violating some random person's privacy.

      --
      "I'm too busy to research this and form an educated opinion, but I do have time to tell everyone my uninformed opinion."
    10. Re: I think it's pretty obvious by ZeroWaiteState · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Problem is Wikileaks just had a similar leak about full private information of practically every female person in Turkey, shortly after the coup, including whether they were a member of Erdrogan's political party. What's their suggestion to women in Turkey? Get assassination insurance? Get a legal name change? Sell your house?

    11. Re: I think it's pretty obvious by GNious · · Score: 3, Informative
    12. Re:I think it's pretty obvious by Pax681 · · Score: 2

      you say centralist ...I say centrist.. however she's only that in American terms.. in European terms she's on the right. We have the full political spectrum here.. you guys don't

    13. Re:I think it's pretty obvious by jafiwam · · Score: 3, Insightful

      These leaks reveal there _are_ no more "trusted journalists."

      Just like Snowden's information revealed there shouldn't be trust in government, now we know the same about journalists.

      Would you assert that Snowden should have "released" his information back to the government? Because that's the logical equivalence of the assertion he should have used journalists for Assange.

    14. Re: I think it's pretty obvious by squiggleslash · · Score: 2

      While that may also have been what Snowden was referring to, it turned out not to be Wikileaks - despite early reporting claiming it was - that published that information.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    15. Re:I think it's pretty obvious by stabiesoft · · Score: 3, Insightful

      He just got sued by the guy who manages those cute little girl dancers that performed at his rally's. for gods sake. Trump gets sued because he breaches contracts like they are toilet paper. He BRAGS about not paying people he is contractually obligated to pay. He does this because he knows that most people will not drag on for years in court to get paid 10K. Just check out how he handled those tenants in the 80's at one of the first buildings he bought. Get a clue.

    16. Re:I think it's pretty obvious by Wootery · · Score: 2

      Just like Snowden's information revealed there shouldn't be trust in government, now we know the same about journalists.

      What? How does Wikileaks' behaviour show us anything about all journalists?

      How does it show us we shouldn't trust, say, Glenn Greenwald?

    17. Re:I think it's pretty obvious by Dread_ed · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Right now, Europeans think that reason must prevail, and that there's no way the American public can possibly vote in someone like that. But history has a tendency to repeat itself.

      Are these reason loving Europeans the ones complaining that the people they invited into the EU are bombing, shooting, stabbing, axing, raping, and running over their friends and families? You can't have it both ways I guess. Either you are for unmitigated immigration, or you are racist xenophobe for entertaining the idea that letting in anyone and everyone without oversight or screening might be a bad idea.

      You are as obtuse as you are transparent. Can't you smell your own filth?

      --
      When the only tool you have is a claw hammer every problem starts to look like the back of someone's skull.
  2. I find it very hard to believe by Vinegar+Joe · · Score: 2

    That the Russians would ever spy on the US. Isn't Putin a constitutional scholar?

    --
    "The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
    1. Re:I find it very hard to believe by quenda · · Score: 2

      Spying is expected. Publishing the data is not. If the Kremlin is behind this, it may be because they blame the US administration for recent leaks that have embarrassed Putin and allies.

  3. Re:Team Players? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Stallman and Torvalds should be on the same team. Witness the bickering controversy of GNU/Linux.

  4. Basic Journalism... by ndykman · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The basics of journalism do help. Just dumping raw data with no concern to how it may affect third parties that are irrelevant to the main story really hurts your overall credibility. Not even showing any attempt to verify the information as valid (because it is easy to tamper with digital information) with additional sources does as well. News matters. Providing a context to a given set of information is important. Asking for comment and/or rebuttal from various parties is important, even if they refuse. Showing judgement as to what is relevant is important.. Not doing so opens them up to a ton of valid criticism. Some editorial prudence would go a long way overall.

    1. Re:Basic Journalism... by JeffAtl · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Why would Wikileaks do that when no other modern-day journalist? Journalists today are all about hot takes, sensationalism and activism.

    2. Re:Basic Journalism... by hey! · · Score: 2, Insightful

      That's an asinine argument. Other people who should do it don't do it, so I won't do it either.

      Wikileaks won't do it because Assange is a chaos-monger posing as a crusader. Wikileaks should do curate its leaks because when you possess information you act responsibly with it, e.g., don't expose people it is about to identity fraud.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    3. Re:Basic Journalism... by squiggleslash · · Score: 2

      What modern-day journalist working for anything resembling a respectable newspaper has published the credit card numbers, home addresses, and private phone numbers of their subjects?

      Snowden didn't state specifics, but the scandal around Wikileaks release of the DNC emails has generally focused on two things - the possibility it came from Russia (nothing to do with Wikileaks themselves or editing, so unlikely to have been Snowden's concern), and that it included private information about individual - often blameless - people that could cause them serious harm without having anything to do with holding them to account.

      Everyone, to the best of my knowledge, is on board with the idea of Wikileaks leaking an email that says "Hi, DWS here! I need a list of ways in which we can secretly handicap Sander's campaign, but remember guys, technically this is illegal so mum's the word!". Fuck DWS. If she goes to prison over this, then nobody's shedding any tears beyond a few die hard Clinton worshipers.

      What we're not on board with is "Oh, Jeff Atl called to donate $100 to the general election fund. Could you handle it? His credit card number is 4111 0291 3839 1212, expires 06/17, CVV 971. Address if you need it is 9821 SE Sunflower Rd, Trenton Gardens, NJ 19281." Even if the full email continues "I let him know that with his donation comes a 30 minute meeting with the Secretary of the Environment so he can deal with that little problem his factory is having with the inspectors", we'd at least expect the credit card details and street part of the address redacted.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
  5. Not like they didn't have time by blackfeltfedora · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Apparently they have been sitting on these for a couple of months waiting for the right time to cause maximum chaos. There was plenty of time to scrub credit cards, phone numbers, etc. Either Assange doesn't care about what collateral damage he causes or the Russians didn't provide the data until right before release date.

  6. Shhhh. by JoelKatz · · Score: 5, Funny

    Morpheus is fighting Neo.

  7. The Fifth Estate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It's *how* they help... or hurt that matters, though. Exposing corruption is a benefit to everyone. Polonium tea, not so much.

    One of the interesting leaks that hasn't gotten a lot of press was in the DNC email leak and showed that the Washington Post was having some kind of secret fundraiser with the DNC that their own lawyers said they shouldn't be doing. So it's not like we even have the media to rely upon to do proper investigations any more and, weird as it may seem, we appear to have found a 5th estate. Bet it won't last any longer than the 4th did, though.

  8. Wikileaks isn't a news article people by chris2net23 · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Wikileaks is about providing raw data so that actual journalists can do there job. To criticize Julian Assange is to misplace blame. It's perfectly valid to say- yes- this might harm innocent people and it's still a good idea to release as is. There are all sorts of risks to life we take every day. Just getting in ones car is a risky proposition. The reason we do it though is because more good comes from it than if we don't.

  9. Re:Bad Move by phantomfive · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Worth mentioning that Chelsea is being moved to solitary confinement.

    But don't worry, the government has recognized national whistleblower's day!!

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  10. Re:Team Players? by Fire_Wraith · · Score: 5, Insightful

    No, because they have different underlying beliefs and goals.

    There are basically 4 reasons that people leak information/commit espionage/etc - Money, Ideology, Conscience, and/or Ego.

    Snowden (based on his statements) did not release classified information simply to release it, or because he thought 'information should be free', or because he was trying to strike a blow against the Elites/"The Man"/etc, or any of that. He believed that there was lots of activity going on that ranged from questionable to illegal/unconstitutional, that he felt the public was being kept in the dark on, and that it needed to be made public for the good society as a whole. He was very clearly motivated based on his Conscience. He's also stated that he never intended for some of the other information to get out, and he relied on the journalists he gave the files to for help with that. Perhaps it was foolish, and perhaps he's not truthful about that, but it's what he's claimed at least.

    Contrast this with Assange, who has a much more specific stated intent of going after certain governments, corporations, and powerful figures. He believes that they need to be torn down, basically - pretty much an Ideology based motivation. He's stated outright that his intent with the DNC leaks was to hurt Hillary Clinton. Furthermore, based on the timing, I'd even question if his intent isn't just to go after the Democrats more generally, because he has stated he'd had it for some time, and if he'd released the information sooner, it might have helped Sanders win the primaries.

    So they definitely have very different stated set of motivations for what they do, and goals they're pursuing by it - at least according to what they've said.

  11. Re:I am with Snowden 100% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    It is your opinion that WikiLeaks lacks integrity.
    But now,
    the whole world knows the FACT that
    Wasserman Schultz is unethical and tampered with the election process.
    Let's hope Tim Canova can kick her butt.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Canova

  12. All vs self redaction by AHuxley · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Long term a full release helps historians, authors, bloggers and any interested people fill in the redacted material after 30 years of official gov releases in some nations.
    A limited, self censored release over years by a subset of the press seems useful in the short term to sell content but long term its all the information in its full context that helps.
    A full release also prevents any questions surrounding members of the press who claim to be experts in certain areas and then only publish fragments on what they feel they understand or want write about for domestic consumption. That can be very limiting for any future historians and can result in a very small sub set of diverse material been covered many times.
    Eg a group of journalists only feel comfortable about releasing material about corruption in a few nations... and hold back all the other interesting material as they see it as outside the help they can request from their own gov and mil contacts.
    Members of the press then publish the same story with a few local twists or focus on a name in decades old material on advice of their legal departments.
    A searchable full release is also good for details like format, dates. Names that did not hold a position that year, fonts, jargon that could point to alterations, self censorship, missing material, a limited hang out https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... .

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
  13. By integrity you mean... by Texmaize · · Score: 2

    Integrity: N. Definition: Having the quality of supporting liberal causes. Example: The liberal journalist showed great integrity by not further investigating any of the allegations that Hillary Clinton's private email server was used to cover up damning evidence that charitable donations to her foundation were given for doing favors as Secretary of State.

    Example 2: Although what Snowden released was true, he showed no integrity by releasing information that showed corruption in the DNC.

    --
    "Liberalism is a very noble idea, currently controlled by some very bad people. Be sure you do not get the two confused.
  14. Re:Team Players? by BlackSwan · · Score: 2

    I'll always found it interesting that Wikileaks\Assange have a fixation on exposing American secrets, but have shown little enthusiasm in doing the same with exposing Russian or Chinese misdeeds: surely there's lots of skeletons to be found in these two countries' records, especially with their dismal human rights records. Maybe Wikileaks should focus of political killings and the murder of journalists, rather than fixate on petty internal disputes within the U.S. Democratic party.
    Same thing vis-à-vis the corporate and financial sectors: I haven't really seen Wikileaks expose the corruption that the ICIJ managed to do with the Panama papers. As time goes on, I'm starting to question Wikileaks' motives and objectives.