Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Dental Floss May Have No Medical Benefits, Says AP Report (gizmodo.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the you-need-a-tic-tac-or-something-because-your-breath-stinks dept.

Joe_NoOne quotes a report from Gizmodo: Flossing may not yield the protective benefits we've been told to expect. Since 1979, the federal government in the U.S. has recommended daily flossing, but by law these dietary guidelines, which are updated every five years, have to be supported by scientific evidence. Surprisingly -- and without any notice -- the federal government dropped flossing from its dietary guidelines this year, telling the Associated Press that "the government acknowledged the effectiveness of flossing had never been researched, as required." AP national writer Jeff Donn reports: "The two leading professional groups -- the American Dental Association and the American Academy of Periodontology, for specialists in gum disease and implants -- cited other studies as proof of their claims that flossing prevents buildup of gunk known as plaque, early gum inflammation called gingivitis, and tooth decay. However, most of these studies used outdated methods or tested few people. Some lasted only two weeks, far too brief for a cavity or dental disease to develop. One tested 25 people after only a single use of floss. Such research, like the reviewed studies, focused on warning signs like bleeding and inflammation, barely dealing with gum disease or cavities. Wayne Aldredge, president of the periodontists' group, acknowledged the weak scientific evidence and the brief duration of many studies...Still, he urges his patients to floss to help avoid gum disease. 'It's like building a house and not painting two sides of it,' he said. 'Ultimately those two sides are going to rot away quicker.'"

159 of 257 comments (clear)

  1. The house analogy sucks by fustakrakich · · Score: 2

    Mine has aluminum siding.

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    1. Re:The house analogy sucks by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 4, Funny

      So do some of my teeth.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
    2. Re:The house analogy sucks by lucm · · Score: 1

      yes the analogy sucks and is wrong.

      building a house and not painting two sides of it

      Warren Buffet made his initial investment in Capital Cities (now ABC) in part because only the front of the head office had been painted, not the back (he likes cheapskates).

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    3. Re:The house analogy sucks by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      It depends on what your siding is made of. If it's unpainted wood, you're going to have serious problems before long (unless it's certain woods that actually work unpainted as siding, I think cedar is one).

      Commercial buildings are usually not made with wood framing and wood siding, unless they're small; usually they're made of things like concrete, brick, etc. Painting concrete is a purely cosmetic step.

    4. Re:The house analogy sucks by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      WTF are you talking about? Unpainted concrete is indeed one of the ugliest things on earth, but there's all kinds of rather amazing concrete finishes available on the market now. They can make a boring concrete garage floor look like flagstone now. They're even making concrete countertops, some of which look like real stone. Of course, really nice concrete finishes aren't cheap, but if you're building some big-ass expensive commercial building, it's probably worth it.

    5. Re:The house analogy sucks by lucm · · Score: 1

      Of course, really nice concrete finishes aren't cheap, but if you're building some big-ass expensive commercial building, it's probably worth it.

      unless you want to attract shrewd investors like Warren Buffer. Or unless your business model is to cut costs to deliver rock-bottom prices.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    6. Re:The house analogy sucks by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I guess in those cases, you should just build your corporate HQ to look like an ugly concrete bunker.

      For everyone else though (including businesses who want to impress customers), there's great concrete finishes available which look great but cost far far less than, say, marble or granite, while being far more durable.

      I used to work at Intel, and they were famously cheap-ass with their buildings too. But even there, they ended up spending a bunch of money on the facade and the entrance lobby in the building that customers normally visited; it was a gigantic difference in appearance between that lobby and all the other ones on campus.

    7. Re:The house analogy sucks by lucm · · Score: 1

      I think Apple will impact this kind of thinking. They spend 5 billions on a new headquarter just as their market share goes in a nosedive. They'll probably never get to fully utilize that thing before the layoffs begin. A lesson for all to see.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
  2. Floss by 31415926535897 · · Score: 4, Informative

    I have lots of experience over the years, (with me), and I've done it every way.

    Floss. That's all there is to it. You will have trouble with your gums and with cavities if you don't.

    You don't have to floss every day. Once a week is enough. Your dentist won't even be able to tell the difference.

    1. Re:Floss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Pretty much this, though I now floss every day. (And I live somewhere where it's not usual.)
      In fact, I'd recommend flossing only over brushing only.

      I've had a lot of gum and tooth issues at once, and it always was between the teeth. Turns out, the gaps between my teeth got bigger and I had a lot of shit getting stuck there. Now that Ifloss, I haven't had any new issues, but there's some permanent damage.

      Anyway, when I remove something that was stuck between my teeth I instantly feel much better.

    2. Re: Floss by Defakto · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This isn't necessarily true. I had a similar conversation with my dentist. He had one client who was a religious floss we and brusher, they have terrible teeth. Multiple root canals, at least 12 fillings. Then there's me. I rarely floss unless I can tell something is stuck, then I do to get it out. The strength of your teeth is mainly genetic and environment. Sadly my son has his mother's teeth and already has problems.

    3. Re:Floss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If your teeth are that close, it's understandable flossing won't provide many benefits.

      My dentist could tell when I started flossing (for the first time in my life). Most of the time I just clean the same spots.

    4. Re:Floss by jomama717 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I don't care if there is no evidence of medical benefit, or correlation with cavities/gum disease - those things are intangible. Flossing teeth after just 2-3 days of NOT flossing produces so much gross tangible stuff from between the teeth I still feel a lot better after doing it, no matter what.

      I'm going to guess there is no evidence of medical benefit to applying deodorant every day, but FFS please do.

      --
      while [ 1 ]; do echo -n -e "\xe2\x95\xb$((($RANDOM&1)+1))"; done
    5. Re:Floss by MrKaos · · Score: 1

      I have lots of experience over the years, (with me), and I've done it every way.

      Floss. That's all there is to it. You will have trouble with your gums and with cavities if you don't.

      And your breath will be more pleasant. There is nothing worse than talking to someone who's breath makes you want to vomit.

      You don't have to floss every day. Once a week is enough. Your dentist won't even be able to tell the difference.

      Thank you. I always wondered if flossing once a week was enough, but I see I am not the only one - plus the gum massage feels pretty good. Most of all be true to your teeth and they won't be false to you :)

      --
      My ism, it's full of beliefs.
    6. Re:Floss by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      I floss after every meal. Girlfriends will notice the difference. Rotting food starts to smell bad after only 24 hours.

      I love the flossers with 2 strings.

      I brush after most meals but dont' always have a toothbrush with me.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    7. Re:Floss by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      You don't have to floss every day. Once a week is enough. Your dentist won't even be able to tell the difference.

      That's a really great idea, thanks. (great because for me, it's achievable).

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    8. Re:Floss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      > Floss. That's all there is to it. You will have trouble with your gums and with cavities if you don't.

      Aside from a handful of times at a _very_ young age, I've never flossed. Other than impacted wisdom teeth, I've never had any problems with my gums or teeth in fifty years.

      Myth. Busted.

    9. Re:Floss by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Whether or not one gets cavities depends heavily upon diet. Cavities are caused by excess carbohydrates, starches and other simple sugars left behind in the mouth after meals. Normally, the populations of bacteria in the mouth are not concentrated enough in any one spot for a long enough period of time to produce enough acid on a regular basis to cause decay of tooth enamel. However, consumption of carbohydrates and the formation of sticky plaques on the teeth provides the perfect growth medium for these bacteria, promoting a population explosion and the associated waste products (acids) that cause tooth decay and eventually cavities. With a diet rich in high fructose corn syrup and massive quantities of carbs and simple sugars, most Americans are at high risk of developing cavities and have mouths full of them. In my experience, it would be very unusual for a 40 year old, even one who brushes regularly but never flosses, to have never had cavities. You might want to go for a second opinion and independent x-rays, just to be sure. Otherwise your first indication that you do have cavities might be moderate to severe pain and by that point you may need a root canal to save the tooth. Most dental insurance covers x-rays and even if you don't have dental insurance it's worth a few hundred bucks every few years to have them done, just to be sure.

    10. Re: Floss by NotAPK · · Score: 2

      It's a big read but Africa has always had lower rates of caries than other developing nations. However, as my link outlines, this varies regionally within Africa.

      The currently accepted wisdom is that Africans have a better genetic predisposition to tooth decay. Locals can grow up on a diet of wild meat and grains, never brush in their life, and have rather stunningly perfect teeth. Here is an article on the genetics of teeth.

      This link is not about teeth, but there is a lot about diet that we don't understand.

    11. Re:Floss by lucm · · Score: 1, Funny

      Anyway, when I remove something that was stuck between my teeth I instantly feel much better.

      Use condoms even for oral sex, that should solve your problem.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    12. Re:Floss by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      You don't have to floss every day. Once a week is enough. Your dentist won't even be able to tell the difference.

      Well, kinda. You have to floss frequently enough such that the plaque that remains after brushing doesn't have enough time to become calculus, because neither brushing or flossing will get that off. Some people can get away with once per week, and others will have to do it more frequently. Plaque can also give you bad breath, so while it might not be strictly necessary to floss often, your friends, family, and coworkers might appreciate it. Again, everyone's a little different in that regard.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    13. Re: Floss by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      This is a common misconception, the "strength" of your teeth has almost nothing to do with your genetics and the environment.

      I'm not sure exactly why, whether it's because of a high pH or whatever (never checked it), but I'll turn 50 next year, and I've only gotten one very small cavity in my early 30's that my dentist said didn't really need to be filled but would be good to have taken care of. Otherwise, I seem to have Teeth of Steel (tm). What makes it more interesting is that my dad has had four root canals and generally crappy teeth, my mom has had about half a dozen fillings, and my sister has had her share as well. Whether it's genetics or something else, I seem to have hit the lottery regarding my teeth and my eyesight (in my mid 30's I had better than 20/10, although it had deteriorated to 20/15 last time it was measured a couple of years ago).

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    14. Re:Floss by tsotha · · Score: 1

      You don't floss to prevent cavities. That's why you brush. The flossing is keep your teeth from rotting below the gum line.

    15. Re: Floss by sexconker · · Score: 1

      And let me guess, your dick is 7" long.

    16. Re:Floss by pr100 · · Score: 1

      And there we have it - a double blind clinical trial with a statistically significant result.

    17. Re:Floss by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      In some countries restaurants provide toothpicks, and it's socially acceptable to use them in public. Combined with mouthwash I don't think flossing is necessary, and in fact it's probably somewhat inferior to mouthwash in terms of getting in all the nooks and crannies.

      Also, charcoal toothpaste is amazing.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    18. Re:Floss by Big+Hairy+Ian · · Score: 1

      I have lots of experience over the years, (with me), and I've done it every way.

      Floss. That's all there is to it. You will have trouble with your gums and with cavities if you don't.

      You don't have to floss every day. Once a week is enough. Your dentist won't even be able to tell the difference.

      Hardly a clinical trial

      --

      Build a Man a Fire, and He'll Be Warm for a Day. Set a Man on Fire, and He'll Be Warm for the Rest of His Life.

    19. Re:Floss by houghi · · Score: 1

      So because you flossed it worked? I have some snake oil for you.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    20. Re:Floss by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      I have similar issues and found that the best combination was a Panasonic water jet thing and mouthwash.

      The water jet thing is like flossing but uses water to get in where it's hard to get string. There are various brands, including the original "Waterpik", but the batteries on the Waterpik die after a year and are non-replaceable. Panasonic do one with an internal battery and one that takes AAs, guess which one I went for.

      The Panasonic product like is called "Doltz" in Japan, but presumably they didn't use that name in English speaking countries...

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    21. Re:Floss by KozmoStevnNaut · · Score: 1

      > I'm going to guess there is no evidence of medical benefit to applying deodorant every day, but FFS please do

      Actually - please FFS don't. Instead eat fruit and veggies as prime nutrient sources, and use a mild soap (and 3 out of 4 days just rinse the less hairy bits). Wear (thin! high thread count!) wool inner layers when possible. Once dermal fauna adjusts, and once the last of the junk food has finished sweating out, most people don't actually smell bad at all - most people have a very very mild scent. But drink cola, eat burgers chips and put butter and cheese on everything, and scrub till skin squeaks so that dermal fauna restart from almost nothing every day, and most people smell pretty atrocious.

      There's caveats - some swarthier persons have a stronger scent in particular. Sandalwood goes a long way, but a rinse before and after work seems to work well.

      [Citation Needed]

      --
      Eat the rich.
    22. Re:Floss by rhazz · · Score: 1

      Just to add to that: I'm 35, didn't floss at all till late 20's, drink 2 cokes a day or more, only brush my teeth at night. Never had a cavity. I do however have very thin enamel on the tops of my teeth, and it's unclear if that is due to grinding and/or the coke.

      I suspect that there are many factors for teeth health, such as diet, hygiene, genes, etc, and certain things like flossing may help certain individuals more than others.

    23. Re: Floss by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Why not 9? Then you'd have a nine inch nail.

      --
      Support my political activism on Patreon.
    24. Re:Floss by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Waterpik has plugin models.

      Generally, you want a model with a low pulse rate, like waterpik provides. A high pulse rate isn't much different from continuous flow; your mouth fills with water much more quickly without cleaning more effectively.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
    25. Re:Floss by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The Panasonic one has a low and high speed switch. I prefer wireless I think. Either way, it seems more effective than flossing. The amount of debris it dislodges is quite surprising.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    26. Re: Floss by parkinglot777 · · Score: 1

      It's the opposite actually. If your teeth are spaced apart you need flossing less. This is why young children don't really need to floss their baby teeth.

      Actually the size of the gap does not matter as long as no food can get stuck inside the gap. If food gets stuck in there for a while, it will cause problems to both your teeth and gum (and you will feel it). You could try to get the food out using any method and the method does not need to be flossing. Thus, size of gap between teeth is not the reason to need or not need to floss.

      Also, your second sentence is a fallacy and does not support your reasoning because that is not the main or only reason they do not really need to floss their baby teeth.

    27. Re:Floss by budgenator · · Score: 1

      It's not the cavities you really have to worry about, those are easy to fix, even interproximal (between teeth). What you have to worry about is the build up of bacterial biofilm called plaque, these bacteria release digestive enzymes that erode first the soft tissues of the gums and later the supporting bone. The body responds to the bacteria by the inflammation process. The inflamed tissue swells up and blood leaks more easily from the capillaries so your immune cells can get to the site of the infection, but it also makes it easier for the bacteria to get into the blood stream. This inflammation process exacerbates a lot of other systemic conditions from arthritis to diabetes to heart disease.

      When you lose enough bone, your teeth are going to either get infected (root canal), break or fall out. Then you come see me, I make dentures, but you will not be happy because you've lost so much bone they'll be near useless to you. Guys like me are retiring left and right now, so when you need yours they'll probably be made by some Oriental guy that was a pig farmer 3 years ago.

      --
      Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
    28. Re: Floss by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 1

      Pretty much. It's a necessity of going commando. And it's a necessity if you eat a lot of spicy food and don't want a burn/rash. You can spit wash with TP first and then dip TP in a freshly flushed toilet and wash the area til it comes back clean in under 30 seconds.

      I don't wash after most farts tho.

      I have had friends who lost girlfriends over dental hygiene. Girls do not like to kiss mouths after they turn septic. It's nauseating. And they won't always tell you. Fortunately, i was clued in while very young. It was unpleasant to hear but I love kissing.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    29. Re:Floss by RightSaidFred99 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, this "controversy" is stupid. Just because the studies done so far are bad doesn't mean you shouldn't floss.

      For a quick test of the obvious, for a few nights after you brush your teeth floss and see if you have any gunk on the floss afterwards. If you do - durr, flossing is good, that gunk can cause gum and tooth issues.

      Personally, I floss with a water pik. But seeing the little bits of shit that flow out into the sink is evidence enough for me.

    30. Re:Floss by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

      Another factor is that different people are really, really different, and have very different bacteria in their bodies. This is now thought to be the reason some of us are fat and can't lose weight, and others are thin and have no trouble maintaining their weight with little to no exercise (the flora in the gut).

      It's the same in the mouth: some people are highly susceptible to cavities, others just aren't, probably because of extremely different bacteria.

      We really are not human, in the genetic sense: in reality, we're symbiotic lifeforms, much like the Trill from Star Trek or Gua'ould from Stargate, except instead of giant worms in our abdomens controlling our minds, we have various colonies of bacteria living in us which have a lot more to do with the way we live than we realized in the recent past.

    31. Re:Floss by JeffAtl · · Score: 1

      Flossing has little to do with cavities; it is more about preventing gum disease.

      Chronic gum disease leads to pockets at the base of your teeth where the gums have pulled away due to inflammation. Does your dentist take measurements? For a lot of patients that they view as a lost cause, the dentists don't even make a big deal about it. You can check this at home by flossing and seeing if your gums bleed.

    32. Re: Floss by NormalVisual · · Score: 1

      Beats me, I never measured. My eyesight numbers were from the twice-yearly eye exams and retinal photographs I had to have done in the late 90's/early 00's when I worked for a company that made laser markers/engravers. They could measure down to 20/10 and I could still see the letters clearly, so I don't know exactly how sharp my vision was then.

      --
      Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
    33. Re:Floss by mark_reh · · Score: 1

      In your case, once a week may be sufficient, but it is a function of diet, self care habits, and some biochemistry. Since it is impossible to tell who needs to floss daily and who can get away with once per week, we prefer to err on the side of safety and recommend daily flossing for all patients.

    34. Re: Floss by mark_reh · · Score: 1

      Yes, the gap size matters. If the space between the teeth is sufficiently large, food is ullikely to get trapped and a tooth brush will clean between the teeth adequately. Most adults don't have that much space between the teeth. My patients who have large spacing between some teeth don't usually develop cavities in the wide spaces.

      When you bite down on food, the ligaments that hold the teeth in the sockets compress allowing the teeth to move slightly. That movement opens the space between the teeth and allows food to get trapped. That compression of the periodontal ligament affects proprioceptors that provide the sensation of pressure when you bite down so that you don't bite too hard and damage the tooth/ligament.

    35. Re:Floss by mark_reh · · Score: 1

      If you don't floss, food trapped between the teeth supports growth of bacteria that can cause tooth decay. The bacteria feed on sugars in the food and produce acids that erode the enamel. As the bacteria grow in numbers they produce biofilms that protect them from chemical action. As the enamel erodes, it becomes porous and provides a very sturdy structure in which the bacteria may reside and continue their destruction of your teeth. The biofilm also mineralizes and becomes very hard, yet porous. Once the enamel has been penetrated, you have a cavity that should be repaired by a dentist. The dentin under the enamel is much softer than the enamel and decay spreads rapidly inside the tooth.

      Flossing prevents cavities by mechanically removing the trapped food and the biofilm that the bacteria produce to protect themselves. Flossing doesn't go more than 1-2 mm below the gum line, depending on the bone structure, technique, etc. Flossing won't reverse periodontal pocketing. That's what you go to a dental hygienist or a periodontist for.

    36. Re: Floss by mark_reh · · Score: 1

      I am a dentist, too. I often see hypoplastic enamel on first permanent molars in kids. It's pretty common. Otherwise, I agree completely.

    37. Re: Floss by beastofburdon · · Score: 1

      Those people are healthy precisely because of their high fat diet.

    38. Re:Floss by DontTrustWhatIType · · Score: 1

      And remember when studying for your SATs: the plural of "anecdote" is "data", and the plural of "opinion" is "science".

      I have flash cards for sale if you'd like to ace these trick questions.

  3. Boy I sure hope so... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Well, seeing as how I haven't been doing it anyway, this is great news.

  4. Rotting Meat by labnet · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Fine, don't floss:
    but when you have a conversation with me, and you a piece of rotting meat stuck in your mouth for days on end, I'm taking 10 paces back.

    --
    46137
    1. Re:Rotting Meat by ADRA · · Score: 2

      Yes, there's a good distinction between social etiquetteand a medical association telling us that its good to do so. The government also doesn't say to stand more than a foot or two from someone when you're talking to them, but that's also good etiquette.

      --
      Bye!
    2. Re:Rotting Meat by righteousness · · Score: 1

      I wonder what kind of weird teeth you yanks have that you can't get rid of meat between your teeth without having to floss.

      --
      Don't fornicate. Seriously, just don't do it.
    3. Re:Rotting Meat by GungaDan · · Score: 1

      Really? Do you *really* want to bring the Big Book of British Smiles (https://simpsonswiki.com/wiki/The_Big_Book_of_British_Smiles) into this?

      --
      Eloi are stupid, throw morlocks at them!
    4. Re:Rotting Meat by JeffAtl · · Score: 1

      It is impossible for brushing to remove all of the food debris between the teeth. Try flossing after brushing and see if your gums bleed or if you have gunk on the floss.

    5. Re:Rotting Meat by AC5398 · · Score: 1

      Teeth pressed tightly together.

    6. Re: Rotting Meat by JeffAtl · · Score: 1

      The point was disputing that good brushing removes all the debris. To establish that brushing misses a lot of debris, the test would involve brushing first and then seeing if flossing removed any additional debris.

  5. Mental Breakdown by dohzer · · Score: 3, Funny

    Did they study what happens if you have a little bit of orange gunk stuck between your teeth and would have a breakdown if you couldn't use floss to remove it?

  6. In other news... by jmv · · Score: 1

    Apparently there's no medial study that clearly demonstrates that jumping out the window is bad for your health.

    --
    Opus: the Swiss army knife of audio codec
    1. Re:In other news... by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

      My friend Tommy and I studied that health condition when we were nine. The results were published for peer review on his headstone.

      --
      If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
  7. I say bullshit by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

    I'm not sure that I can buy into the "flossing is useless" argument.

    I know when I floss I get all sorts of little bits and pieces of food particles coming out, and having that stuff sitting up in your gums for days or weeks DOES contribute to things like gingivitis and other types of gum disease. And I know for a fact that when I started flossing regularly the condition of my gums improved significantly, and I have the dental records to prove it. Maybe I'm atypical in that regard, but I doubt it.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    1. Re:I say bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      They didn't say "flossing is useless". They said flossing hasn't been studied properly, so by law, they are not allowed to put it in the official guidelines.

  8. How to floss regularly by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    1. Floss
    2. Smell used floss
    3. Be totally grossed out.
    4. Floss forever.

    Story is a beat up. They didn't say it makes no difference. They just said the research supporting it was old and had poor methodology, possibly because "Big Floss" didn't think "floss research" was worth throwing money at and people have been doing it anyway because it's common sense.

    So another clickbait headline which will have AP's media customers rubbing their hands with glee, but misleading and many people will take away the wrong conclusion.

    1. Re:How to floss regularly by The-Ixian · · Score: 1

      absolutely this.

      There is one spot in the upper left quadrant where I can taste/smell the bacteria pocket getting disturbed if I haven't flossed for a week or more. This is despite twice a day thorough brushing.

      I can also tell that my gums are healthier when I am in the flossing habit.

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    2. Re:How to floss regularly by dj245 · · Score: 1

      1. Floss 2. Smell used floss 3. Be totally grossed out. 4. Floss forever. Story is a beat up. They didn't say it makes no difference. They just said the research supporting it was old and had poor methodology, possibly because "Big Floss" didn't think "floss research" was worth throwing money at and people have been doing it anyway because it's common sense. So another clickbait headline which will have AP's media customers rubbing their hands with glee, but misleading and many people will take away the wrong conclusion.

      There's a legitimate medical question here. The existing studies are not great and some have conflicting results. I agree that flossing has many benefits (odor being a huge one) but the floss manufacturers make various claims as to the medical benefit which aren't backed up. Yet. Given proper study, medical benefits will probably be shown. There are many different floss materials, different coatings, etc. There are even non-floss floss-type products, like the awful flossing sticks. Some may work better than others. Some may even be useless or detrimental compared to not flossing. More studies aren't a bad thing.

      I think it is great they are setting the example with Floss. If the company-sponsored studies for Floss can be questioned, the company-sponsored studies for most any other personal care item with health claims can be questioned too. Maybe companies running these studies will be more careful in the future. There are certainly a lot of shoddy pro-product studies out there.

      --
      Even those who arrange and design shrubberies are under considerable economic stress at this period in history.
  9. If I don't floss by Revek · · Score: 1

    My gums will bleed while I brush after a few weeks. if I floss regularly they don't. Good enough for me.

    1. Re: If I don't floss by sexconker · · Score: 1

      Wrong.
      They're inflamed and mad at you.
      Floss for a few days straight and they won't bleed anymore.

  10. Evidence based medicine by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Funny

    Not everything we know comes from randomized, large-scale trials. There are other ways to gain knowledge. This link shows why randomized, large-scale trials are not always the best idea.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re:Evidence based medicine by jdavidb · · Score: 1

      Wow, I wish someone had read this when I had two children age 2 and under and the government took all the infant cold and flu medication off the market because there was "no direct evidence" that the medicine helped children that young.

      (I still think taking medicine away from babies is one of the most despicable things a person could ever do. How do they sleep at night? Probably better than all the parents with sick children who can barely breathe, I guess.)

      --
      Secession is the right of all sentient beings.
  11. Seems like it would be easy to study by Webmoth · · Score: 1

    Just have the study participants floss only half (the same half) of their mouth every day. Monitor their oral health for several years. If flossing makes a significant difference in dental decay, it should become obvious by the differing rate of decay of flossed and unflossed teeth.

    It seems to me that this would be a reasonable approach to a study. Aside from flossing, the oral health of each subject should be the same on both sides of the mouth. That means you wouldn't have to account as much for variations in oral hygeine among subjects.

    Disclaimer: I have never knowingly conducted or participated in medical research.

    --
    Give me my freedom, and I'll take care of my own security, thank you.
    1. Re:Seems like it would be easy to study by mark_reh · · Score: 1

      I doubt a human study like that would get past the ethics committees who review such proposals.

  12. Re:Use APPS, NOT LUDDITE floss! by secretsquirel · · Score: 1

    You check out that new toothbrush that has bluetooth app to track your brushing? Not sure if it does floss too.

  13. Re: Coffe and Nicotine by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Intent is not required everywhere. If I did a tenth of what Clinton did, I would never work again in my industry, and that is a bare minimum.

  14. Re:Flossing is like shaving your balls. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Yes, because it make no sense.

  15. Re: CoffeE and Nicotine by CaptQuark · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    I call Bullshit. Breaking the law does NOT require intent before you can be charged.

    "Honestly, officer, I didn't MEAN to speed. I just wasn't paying attention."
    "But I didn't MEAN to kill that other hunter. I just shot at the sound and didn't know what was in the bushes."
    "I didn't MEAN to run that stop sign. I didn't see it because I was busy playing with my cell phone."

    If intent was part of the prosecution then there wouldn't be a need for the saying "Ignorance of the law is no defense." You can still be charged and prosecuted for breaking a law even if you didn't KNOW it was illegal.

    Disclosing classified material, which she should have known was classified, is breaking the law. If I did that when I was in charge of classified information it would have gotten me arrested, my security clearance revoked, and my job changed. I would never be allowed to handle classified material again.

    Instead the FBI says "Oh, let's not prosecute her because she didn't MEAN to reveal classified material over an illegal, unsecured email system.

    The more likely reason they decided not to prosecute was that they didn't want to draw attention to the fact that multiple classified email messages were sent over an unsecured system and are possibly stored in the backup systems of the commercial email servers. Sweep it under the rug, deny there was any wrongdoing, and hope nobody remembers it once the election circus starts.

  16. Re: Coffe and Nicotine by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    So, you agree that rich white kids never commit crimes either, since their families buy their way out of trouble?

    Get a grip. The known facts show that Clinton committed several actions that are covered by US laws. The fact that a political elite wasn't charged, doesn't mean she didn't do far more than a parking infraction.

    By the way, what "treason" did Trump do? Since he isn't even in office, and hasn't transferred secrets to (or through negligence, allowed national secrets to be received by) foreign/enemy states, what did he do that is treasonous? Oh, he asked Russia to turn over the emails they already have? Or do you really think he asked the Russians to hack a server that is already decommissioned? Are you that stupidly partisan?

    For the record, I am not a Trump supporter. I will probably vote for Dr. Jill Stein, again. Have fun in your oligarchy, you seem to enjoy it.

    --
    If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
  17. Re:Flossing is like shaving your balls. by I'm+New+Around+Here · · Score: 1

    I think he means it is difficult because of the uneven surface.

    Otherwise, he may have dentures, and also had his scrotum ripped off in a gruesome skateboarding accident (that also explains the 'has no teeth' part).

    --
    If you think I voted for Trump because of this post, you're wrong. I voted for Dr. Jill Stein of the Green Party. Again.
  18. Denal Floss Tycoon by Required+Snark · · Score: 2
    Lyrics by Frank Zappa.

    I might be movin' to Montana soon

    Just to raise me up a crop of Dental Floss

    Raisin' it up

    Waxin' it down

    In a little white box that

    I can sell uptown

    By myself I wouldn't

    Have no boss,

    But I'd be raisin' my lonely Dental Floss

    Raisin' my lonely Dental Floss

    --
    Why is Snark Required?
  19. Waxed or unwaxed?? by ve3oat · · Score: 1

    I am sure that unwaxed floss is more effective at "cleaning" the surface of the teeth than waxed floss. Waxed floss glides effortlessly over the surface and there is little or no friction. Without friction, how can waxed floss scrape the surface of the tooth?? Any study on the effectiveness of flossing has to distinguish between the use of waxed and unwaxed floss. But try to find unwaxed floss when you need to buy some! Most drugstores sell only waxed floss or keep very little unwaxed floss in stock. If a proper study finds that flossing is not effective, I would bet money on their subjects using mostly or entirely waxed floss. By definition, waxed floss will do no work.

    1. Re:Waxed or unwaxed?? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The type of floss you use isn't significant according to the American Dental Association. How you use it and more importantly, how often you use it is what matters. Manafacturers will argue that waxed floss is slightly better. There have been some studies done on it and they seem to support the ADA's view. E.g.: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/6955502

    2. Re:Waxed or unwaxed?? by mark_reh · · Score: 1

      Waxed or unwaxed? This will really bake your noodle: teflon!

  20. I always suspected... by e432776 · · Score: 1

    ..that BIG FLOSS was behind the secret campaign to get us all to floss daily! Finally, I am vindicated!

    1. Re:I always suspected... by mark_reh · · Score: 1

      If you honestly think that bacteria can't move from one place to another in your mouth without your help, you don't know anything about bacteria.

  21. wrong headline by prefec2 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    So the true story is that the claim has not been prooven. This makes the claim not false, it makes it untested and unverified. As the claim still can be tested , it is not a believe. So the ball lies now in the corner of dental floss researchers to evaluate the effect in a real study.

  22. FLOSS by MancunianMaskMan · · Score: 4, Funny
    Wot no gnu logo here? https://www.gnu.org/philosophy...

    Oh /. where art thou!

  23. Always thought of flossing to be an American thing by Deaddy · · Score: 2

    Here in Germany flossing is quite uncommon and I know only few persons that even own floss. Dentists also never seem to mention it. However, I do not know how dental health here compares to the one in the US and assume that other factors play a much bigger role then.

  24. Yet TFA claims dramatic flossing effects by ragahast · · Score: 1

    Dramatic improvements in periodontal health are claimed for careful flossing. Careless flossing turns out not to matter.

    --
    .:Semper Absurda:.
  25. Floss? Better -> interdental brush by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 1

    Floss is part of the past. Go for interdental brush.

    --
    Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
  26. Re:Typical by radio4fan · · Score: 5, Insightful

    British dental health is much better than in the US.

    British Teeth Aren’t That Bad (American Teeth Are Far Worse)

    Which countries' children have the worst teeth?

  27. Re: Coffe and Nicotine by tsotha · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    The cattle futures should have sent her to jail thirty years ago. If not the cattle futures, then the Rose Law documents. If not the Rose Law documents, then the Clinton Global Initiative pay-for-play.

  28. Re:Coffe and Nicotine by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    I hate the obvious false equivalencies popular lately,

    Note, there is no "proof" that smoking causes cancer in humans. Human trials are unethical, so the proper studies haven't been done. The lack of a proof isn't a proof of the lack, though wording in articles like this seems to indicate people think that way.

    --
    Learn to love Alaska
  29. Re:Always thought of flossing to be an American th by henni16 · · Score: 1

    Well, here's a German who flosses daily before going to bed.
    Maybe it's because some of my teeth are very close together and there's no chance for a brush to get between them, but I can feel the difference before and after flossing so that l still feel a bit dirty if I just brush without flossing.

    What I think makes a way bigger difference than flossing or not: using an electric toothbrush.

  30. Uhh... by easyTree · · Score: 1

    Human brain may have no benefit, anecdotal evidence finds.

    --
    Requiem for the American Dream
  31. Re:Flossing is like shaving your balls. by sexconker · · Score: 1

    No, we get it. You feel marvelous after doing both.

  32. Re: Coffe and Nicotine by dwillden · · Score: 2

    Director Comey lied and covered for her. Intent is NOT a requirement for failure to protect and mishandling of classified information. Failing to stop classified information from going out over her unclassified civilian internet server is a Felony. Being to stupid to realize that classified information does not go on an unclassified system is a felony, neither has any intent requirement. Both are 10 years per count. Comey stated flat out that there were over 100 emails that had information that was classified at the time it was sent. That is over 100 counts on both charges. No intent needed.

    Any prosecutor not trying to cover her would have jumped at the chance to indict. People have gone to jail for a single email, let alone more than 100.

    Trump did not call for foreign intervention, he joked that Russia should find the 30,000 missing emails among all the other stuff they'd hacked years ago when she was the Sec State.

    --
    I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
  33. Re: CoffeE and Nicotine by dwillden · · Score: 2

    Mishandling Classified information most certainly is a crime. Espionage act, USC Title 18 para 739 (f). Nothing left or right wing about it. It's there in the code. Putting classified information on an unclassified network (civilian or government) is a crime. Sending that information via that unclassified network is a crime. I've had a clearance for over 20 years. I put classified information into an email not on the physically separate classified networks (which were not hacked) even once and I go to jail, not to the Whitehouse.

    --
    I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
  34. Re: CoffeE and Nicotine by AK+Marc · · Score: 1, Troll
    The same scandals came out under Reagan, Bush, and other Republicans, and nobody from the right cared. But Hillary does it, and everyone loses their mind.

    I put classified information into an email not on the physically separate classified networks (which were not hacked) even once and I go to jail,

    I've known people to have done worse. They lost their clearance, sometimes their jobs, but never ended up in jail. I think your CO scared you a little too much. Though, those from military generally don't get it. They are more greatly punished under UCMJ than civilians under the USC.

    Again, as I noted, you are confusing the "law" with the actual law. What's written isn't the law. It's called "common law". We don't live under "Civil Law". The law isn't the law as written, but as applied. De facto, what she did was legal, because she wasn't found guilty of it in a court of law. Arguing that she broke the law because your opinion is that she should have been found guilty just shows that you know nothing of the law (even if you can quote it), and you shit on the principal of innocent until proven guilty. Why do you hate individual rights?

    --
    Learn to love Alaska
  35. Parachutes, too. by XNormal · · Score: 1

    Not just floss. Parachutes, too, suffer from a serious shortage of controlled trials demonstrating their efficacy.

    Smith, Gordon CS, and Jill P. Pell. "Parachute use to
    prevent death and major trauma related to gravitational challenge:
    systematic review of randomised controlled trials."
    British Medical Journal 327.7429 (2003): 1459.

    Article here.

    --
    Stop worrying about the risks of nuclear power and start worrying about the risks of not using nuclear power.
    1. Re:Parachutes, too. by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

      Just use extrapolation / induction. Parachutes are not helpful for 10 foot jumps Parachutes are not helpful for 20 foot jumps. Therefor, parachutes are not helpful for jumps greater than 20 feet.

      --
      Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  36. Re: CoffeE and Nicotine by dwillden · · Score: 2

    It wasn't my CO instilling fear, it was on the job experience and expertese. I was an Army Counterintelligence Agent (MOS 97B then 35L). I investigated such crimes, yes people did get off with lesser punishment but they were brought up on the actual crimes with the potential penalties. Military Lawyers and Judges like plea deals just as much as civilian courts do. I'm not saying she needs to go to jail for 10 years x 100+ classified emails. But she should have been indicted. The crimes are real, and they do not require intent. The law as applied is that you mishandle classified information, you face charges.

    Let her be indicted and defend herself, if she can plea out to jay-walking fine. But she needs to face the charges for the crimes she committed. And I'm speaking from experience not misunderstanding.

    --
    I'm too lazy to compose a creative sig.
  37. Seemed to work for me by twosat · · Score: 1

    I must say that since I started flossing regularly, I have not had any more big fillings done on my teeth. If you get cavities between your teeth the dentist can't drill a small hole into it from the side and is obliged to make a big filling from the tooth's top surface. I normally only floss every second day, or when I have eaten sugary foods. I think a lot of it could be genetic - people with widely-spaced teeth probably won't get much tooth decay between their teeth.

  38. Re:Typical by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Health wise we do better, but until fairly recently people tend not to worry too much about the cosmetic aspect so their teeth look bad.

    I had a brace for some fairly serious overcrowding when I was a child, but once the problem was fixed they lost interest in neatening everything up. I'm kinda tempted to pay to get them fixed now that those invisible braces are available. It's not so much the looks as the getting food suck in them all the bloody time.

    Also, I wish my wisdom teeth would stop trying to kill me. Intelligent design my arse.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  39. Flossing can be replaced by swb · · Score: 1

    I have always been a regular brusher but couldn't stand flossing so I didn't, and nearly every dentist I ever used nagged about it constantly.

    Due to job changes and ambivalence and dislike of dental practice, I didn't go to the dentist for about 2 years. I had an old filling break, which basically forced me to go the dentist. I figured I probably had several cavities since I typically had at least one every dental visit, so I looked for a dentist who did sedation so I could get them all fixed at once in the easiest manner possible.

    I gave the dentist my backstory and told him that not going to the dentist regularly was a dumb idea but that I was not going to floss, so don't tell me about flossing. If you bug me about flossing, I will just get up and leave I'm here for dental care, not lectures. He was pretty good about it.

    Anyway, after an overhaul that included 2 crowns, a root canal and a few fillings I was back to decent shape. I started using (at their suggestion) a mouthwash with CPC (Crest ProHealth is the best known commercial brand, but generics are everywhere).

    Since I started using CPC mouthwash my gums are in great shape and I've had zero cavities. The CPC seems to be an organic solvent for plaque and whatever sticky shit holds food particles in your mouth. I've brushed with an ultrasonic brush, rinsed my mouth with water thoroughly after and then used the CPC mouthwash and been AMAZED at the crap that comes out with the mouthwash.

    I think in the absence of any dentistry, flossing is probably a good idea since it mechanically removes buildup in places brushes do nothing for. But I think that CPC mouthwash is a really decent substitute, since it not only treats your entire mouth and can get in places you can't floss or brush, it does an awful lot to nuke bacteria and growth that leads to cavities. I also think that the regular cleanings help, too. You just can't clean your own teeth the way a hygienist can with the tools and physical access they have.

  40. Technically by jbmartin6 · · Score: 1

    They dropped the recommendation since the legal requirements for evidence were not met. That's not the same thing as stating flossing has no benefits. Although from some associated stories folks were saying modern toothbrushes were able to clean the same areas as flossing, which implies flossing may once have been useful but no longer useful. For myself, I will keep doing it due to the various bits of food that get stuck here and there. My toothbrush might get them, unless I am not as careful or not paying attention when I brush that area, which is a real possibility. We'll call it a useful backup method.

    --
    This posting is provided 'AS IS' without warranty of any kind, implied or otherwise.
  41. Re: Coffe and Nicotine by jofas · · Score: 1

    You don't need proof, you need scientific link under reproducible conditions.

  42. Re: Coffe and Nicotine by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    Look at the reports more carefully. Hillary Clinton clearly violated the law intentionally multiple times, but the investigating agencies concluded (not their words) that the Clinton omerta would make prosecution unsuccessful.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  43. Re: Coffe and Nicotine by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    The item in question is treason, not just crime. You're changing the subject and using that to pretend that Trump is as evil as Clinton.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  44. Re: Coffe and Nicotine by budgenator · · Score: 1

    Wrong answer the laws regarding safeguarding classified information does not require intent to be in violation, only neglect. The FBIs finding that "nothing that meets requirements for prosecution" in the current political environment is more an incitement of ubiquitous corruption in the Obama administration than an exoneration of Clinton.

    (p) Any person having access to and possession of classified information is responsible for protecting it from persons not authorized access to it, to include securing it in approved equipment or facilities, whenever it is not under the direct supervision of authorized persons. 46 CFR 503.59 - Safeguarding classified information.

    and

    (1) Knowingly, willfully, or negligently disclose to unauthorized persons information properly classified under Executive Order 13526 or predecessor orders;

    I actually look forward to Clinton being POTUS and being able to say "Only 3 Presidents have been impeached, a former slave-owner and a Husband and Wife; all Democrats."

    --
    Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  45. Water jet machines by enosys · · Score: 1

    What about water jet machines like the Waterpik ones? Have there been any good studies about whether those are helpful?

  46. Re: CoffeE and Nicotine by budgenator · · Score: 1

    No a UCMJ matter is something like storing a camo net on top of your shop that's is a classified container in violation of AR 380-5; much less than setting up an unauthorized email server and routinely transmitting classified information through it, both marked and unmarked.

    --
    Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  47. Re: Coffe and Nicotine by GLMDesigns · · Score: 1

    He did not call for foreign intervention. He trolled the media. It was an obvious troll. And you still fell for it. Listen to / read the statement. He wasn't calling for Russian involvement.

    And, in case it matters I'm not a trump support. In fact I'm a #NeverTrump.

    #NeverTrump. #NeverHillary Vote Third Party in 2016 and beyond.

    --
    If you're scared of your govt then you need to further restrict its powers
    Vote 3rd Party in 2016 and beyond
  48. Re:Floss? Better - interdental brush by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    Interesting citation. I find them difficult to use, and a short brush lifespan adds some expense.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  49. Obligatory Feynman by KrackerJax · · Score: 1

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    --
    Sauer
  50. Re:Always thought of flossing to be an American th by ChrisMaple · · Score: 1

    In some cases the rough spots that shred the floss will get worn off with repeated flossing. YMMV.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  51. Re:Typical by Immerman · · Score: 1

    Hey, wisdom teeth are wonderful - you're just supposed to have had a few teeth fall out to make room for them before they arrive.

    --
    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  52. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: 1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  53. Re:Always thought of flossing to be an American th by budgenator · · Score: 1

    My teeth are so close together I can't even floss properly - the floss thread disintegrates and gets stuck between my teeth. I use mouthwash instead, which probably does the same time of job even better.

    That's an orthodontic problem; a Dentist that doesn't discuss solutions with you about this has a piss poor standard of care.

    --
    Apocalypse Cancelled, Sorry, No Ticket Refunds
  54. Floss Lobby by DarthVain · · Score: 1

    I suspect the gigantic floss lobby is behind all of this!

    Seriously though, update your studies already. Lazy science. Likely the dental associations never bothered because they were never required to.

    Also horrible analogy and pretty insulting from a medical point of view. Kinda like saying we have no proof, but think it helps anyway, here I'll site a poor analogy that makes no sense yet give you the impression that you should just take my word for it because I think it is common sense...

  55. Don't need a professional... by moeinvt · · Score: 1

    ... to tell me that leaving food to rot between my teeth in a bacteria-rich environment is a dumb idea.

    My teeth are very crowded in places and even a thorough 2-minute brushing with an electric toothbrush and a rinse with mouthwash aren't enough to clean out the tight spaces. When my wisdom teeth were coming in, they hurt like hell, so I was avoiding regular flossing around them. Once I finally had them removed, I had a cavity in the spot where one of the wisdom teeth had pressed against the rear molar. I always assumed it decayed because the wisdom tooth had been wedged against it so tightly and I hadn't been running floss through there daily.
    I'll gladly take the risk of wasting 1 minute of my day to floss.

    Of course we should all make sure we're ingesting a bunch of fluoride in our drinking water. That will help.

  56. Genetics by stabiesoft · · Score: 1

    I had my first cavity around 45, and have only 2 and I'm close to 60. My mother had no cavities until her late 50's. You can have hard teeth (less cavities more gum problems) or soft teeth(more cavities less gum issues). Flossing is great for gum issues. They blew it on this one, having gum problems is very bad for health. Flossing is a no brainer.

  57. Candidate found for Trump speechwriter by itsdapead · · Score: 1

    And oh you didn't establish using a table saw leads to the presence of sawdust even though it is obvious

    NB: Whoosh? A few years ago I'd have assumed this post was a joke, but the way the world is today its hard to be sure, so just in case...

    If you'd never seen a table saw before, you'd have no reason to know that it produced sawdust. Fortunately, you just have to saw some wood to see the sawdust spurting out and bingo, you have evidence. Better still, that's reproducible evidence.

    Obvious things are only obvious because the evidence is there for the asking.

    Unfortunately, you can't watch someone floss their teeth and see the health benefits happening. You won't know for years - and the result could depend on a whole lot of other things like diet, brushing habits and general health. If you don't do some sort of research - which doesn't just have to be clinical trials, but does have to be rational, systematic and evidence-based - you have no way of knowing. You also have to consider that people who floss regularly might also have other good health and personal hygiene habits.

    Of course, without research, you also have no idea whether flossing might even be harmful - its easy to come up with hypotheses that it could abrade the teeth, damage the gums, prevent "good" bacteria, damage fillings or make people feel better about eating sugary foods. Frankly, without research, those theories are just as good as the ones saying it is beneficial.

    But then, we all know that doing something tedious and unpleasant must be good for us, because, well, its just obvious...

    --
    In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    1. Re:Candidate found for Trump speechwriter by JeffAtl · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, you can't watch someone floss their teeth and see the health benefits happening. You won't know for years

      Sure you can. You can examine the gunk that removed by flossing even after brushing. Is having food debris in your mouth and promoting infections a good thing or a bad thing?

      Even if a person wants to be obtuse about the above, it only takes a couple of weeks to see objective evidence i.e. gum bleeding reduced or stopped, reduced inflammation and reduction in pocket size.

    2. Re:Candidate found for Trump speechwriter by itsdapead · · Score: 1

      Is having food debris in your mouth and promoting infections a good thing or a bad thing?

      Who knows? The only clear fact is that flossing removes gunk from your mouth.It's sure plausible that might prevent problems but that's not the same as "evidence".

      The body is a complex system - there's loads of bacteria and waste in the human body that don't do any harm. Some of it does good. Sometimes, removing it can cause problems (e.g. stopping the signal that tells your body to deal with the problem itself). Heard the theory about germ-free environments during early childhood preventing the development of the immune system and leading to allergies/asthma?

      Maybe toothpaste does a good enough job of killing bugs? Maybe using mouthwash would be more effective? Maybe spending time flossing makes people cut corners on brushing, or makes them more willing to eat sugary foods?

      it only takes a couple of weeks to see objective evidence i.e. gum bleeding reduced or stopped, reduced inflammation and reduction in pocket size.

      ...only in a world where "objective" has been retconned to mean "anecdotal and unreliable". Most people's gums aren't inflamed and bleeding, so you're immediately dealing with a non-representative group who turn up at the dentist with an existing problem. Many people's bleeding gums are "one-offs" that will heal themselves in a few days, so there's a slew of false positives there. Others will see bleeding gums as a "wake-up-call", visit the dentist, and improve their diet and all-round brushing habits for at least a few weeks. None of this "evidence" is worth a dime when asking the question "should everybody floss?" - at best, you might decide that flossing helps people with existing infections. Sad fact is: getting solid evidence about complex systems is complex (and error-prone).

      Just some perspective here though: nobody is suggesting that people shouldn't floss. All that's being challenged is the official advice that everybody must floss. Its best not to train people to ignore official advice by deluging them with unsubstantiated and burdonsome diktats.

      --
      In a survey of 100 programmers, 111111 thought that duck-typing was a good idea.
    3. Re:Candidate found for Trump speechwriter by gzuckier · · Score: 1

      And oh you didn't establish using a table saw leads to the presence of sawdust even though it is obvious

      NB: Whoosh? A few years ago I'd have assumed this post was a joke, but the way the world is today its hard to be sure, so just in case...

      If you'd never seen a table saw before, you'd have no reason to know that it produced sawdust. Fortunately, you just have to saw some wood to see the sawdust spurting out and bingo, you have evidence. Better still, that's reproducible evidence.

      Obvious things are only obvious because the evidence is there for the asking.

      Unfortunately, you can't watch someone floss their teeth and see the health benefits happening. You won't know for years - and the result could depend on a whole lot of other things like diet, brushing habits and general health. If you don't do some sort of research - which doesn't just have to be clinical trials, but does have to be rational, systematic and evidence-based - you have no way of knowing. You also have to consider that people who floss regularly might also have other good health and personal hygiene habits.

      Of course, without research, you also have no idea whether flossing might even be harmful - its easy to come up with hypotheses that it could abrade the teeth, damage the gums, prevent "good" bacteria, damage fillings or make people feel better about eating sugary foods. Frankly, without research, those theories are just as good as the ones saying it is beneficial.

      But then, we all know that doing something tedious and unpleasant must be good for us, because, well, its just obvious...

      exactly right. finding the benefits of something which only helps decades later is really hard. even just to find the same people is difficult, even if you are continuously following them. then there is the problem that over time people's habits change; so even if your test and control groups were perfectly matched at the beginning, 40 years from now they are likely to have picked up/dropped/changed habits which may affect the result (dental health in this case); even more tricky, when the precise thing you want to study is usually correlated with a whole bunch of other relevant factors. i.e., people who floss are more likely to be meticulous in general, and particularly regarding health; so even if the two groups are well matched on all those factors at first, there is kind of a steady pull that trends to separate them over time.
      then, with something like flossing, you only have the person's individual recall as evidence, unless you are actually watching them every night for 40 years. especially where something is considered "morally correct" people will overestimate their participation, even in anonymous surveys; they'll say they floss almost every day when the fact might be that they do so maybe 50% of the time, and thoroughly believe what they're saying.
      and: flossing is actually quite a large spectrum of behavior. do they use waxed floss, or unwaxed, or teflon, or ultrafine, or dental tape? are there differences between brand? does mint flavor conceivably make a difference? does mint flavor make a difference in how often they floss? do they floss "correctly" and effectively, or do they just buzz through it as fast as they can and do a crummy job? and again, all of these variables can change over the period of the study.
      these kinds of complications are the same reasons why there is still no hard evidence on, for instance, coffee; is it good for you, bad for you, indifferent?
      in fact, in retrospect, the success of the first big example of this kind of study, cigarette smoking, in producing an unequivocal result is a tribute to how huge an effect that was, and sort of gave public health folks an overoptimistic picture of what population studies would be able to pick up.
      and, of course, you still have people who insist that the link between cigarette smoking and health is false. (one of them is running for US vice president right now, for instance).

      --
      Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  58. Re:Typical by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    Maybe that explains their funny accent.

  59. Re:As a dentist... I'd support that.. haha by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    If that happens, can't you just take some extra courses, complete the certifications, and become a specialist yourself?

  60. Re:Flossing now neutral? Negative next.... by JeffAtl · · Score: 1

    Fail. The pockets deepen when flossing does not occur but improve when regular flossing is introduced.

    To be clear, some pockets are already in such an infected state that flossing can't help and surgery is required.

  61. The same can be said for oxygen. by GrumpySteen · · Score: 1

    There's never been a true, randomized large-scale trial of people being deprived of oxygen. Maybe AP national writer Jeff Donn should try going against conventional wisdom and tie a plastic bags firmly in place over his head.

    Or maybe... just maybe, the obvious benefits of scraping out the shit that's stuck between your teeth doesn't need to be proven by a large scale trial any more than the benefits of not suffocating.

  62. Re: CoffeE and Nicotine by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    The forms will always make it sound worse than it is. Yes, they use scare tactics. Have you ever seen anyone prosecuted for mishandling? No, or you'd have mentioned it as well. Like I said, scare tactics, but no prosecutions. Not unlike HIPAA. Lots of noise, not too many actual fines or actions.

    You are supporting my statements, not contradicting them.

    --
    Learn to love Alaska
  63. Re:Flossing now neutral? Negative next.... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    The question over mercury amalgam should be moot now. You say it has "poor bio-availability", but that's still non-zero, plus you even admit that the effect of other things on it (like fluoride ions, or perhaps other stuff you might put in your mouth like fruit juices or whatever) aren't completely understood.

    So why put something bearing mercury in your mouth at all? 50 years ago, the answer was simple: the alternatives were having cavities, or getting expensive gold fillings. These days, we have resin fillings which are superior in every way: they don't have any harmful metals, they're tooth-colored so they look a lot better, and they're even much stronger (I have one on the tip of one of my incisors which got chipped; it's been there a couple years now and still looks great).

    Debating mercury in fillings seems a bit like debating the effects of tetraethyl lead in gasoline, or debating whether AmigaOS or OS/2 would be better for modern business computing.

  64. Re: Coffe and Nicotine by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    So a study of one person, with a 0% confidence is sufficient, so long as the study of one is "reproducible conditions"? That seems pretty weak.

    --
    Learn to love Alaska
  65. Re:Always thought of flossing to be an American th by Grishnakh · · Score: 2

    Try the "Glide" floss. I have tight contacts too in places which will tear regular floss apart, but the Glide stuff works much better.

  66. Re: CoffeE and Nicotine by Firethorn · · Score: 1

    Having had a clearance for just about as long, I worked in the compusec office, and thus was involved in just about every security incident. Even had a case where I wasn't allowed to see the classified information, just assisted in running the checklist.

    I never saw anybody go to prison for it, but most cases were obviously not intentional, even if boneheaded.

    --
    I don't read AC A human right
  67. Re: CoffeE and Nicotine by david_thornley · · Score: 1

    That's intent to set up an off-site server. That was perfectly legal (the law was changed about a year after Clinton left the State Department). We know that she had such intent, and it doesn't matter. She did not intend classified material to be on her servers, and that's the intent we're concerned about. (Intent doesn't mean intent to do wrong, or intent to break a law. It means intent to do something, and is important when that something is illegal. Petraeus deliberately gave classified material to someone without legal access. Clinton accidentally had classified material on her server. It's not necessary to show that Petraeus intended to do wrong or intended to break the law.)

    --
    "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  68. I never floss... by smithmc · · Score: 2, Interesting

    ...and every six months when I go the dentist for a checkup and cleaning, they tell me "whatever you're doing, keep it up!". So I keep not flossing...

    --
    Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
  69. Re:Typical by mark_reh · · Score: 1

    No, you're supposed to eat food that contains a lot of dirt and sand which will grind away at the other teeth, reducing them so there will be space for the wisdom teeth.

  70. Re:Typical by mark_reh · · Score: 1

    Actually, people used to get wisdom teeth routinely extracted. In more recent times, because of the risk of complications, wisdom teeth are extracted only if they will or are causing problems for other teeth through impaction, or in the event of severe decay. If they aren't causing a problem, we tend to leave them alone.

  71. Re: CoffeE and Nicotine by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    You do realize that the forms are quoting the relevant laws, right?

    The law, as written, isn't the law. The law, as applied, is the law. That's how Common Law works, and that's the system we live under. That so many people don't understand that doesn't make me wrong. The FBI said there is no cause to prosecute. Yet all the Hillary haters here think they know the law better than lawyers working for the FBI. And I'm a troll for pointing out that hubris in the Hillary haters.

    --
    Learn to love Alaska
  72. Re:Floss? Better - interdental brush by mark_reh · · Score: 1

    They're great where you can get them to fit. If you can't fit them between the teeth they can't help you. Floss fits everywhere.

  73. Re:Flossing now neutral? Negative next.... by mark_reh · · Score: 1

    Amalgam fillings work by sealing the tooth very tightly. They are held in mechanically, by the shape of the filling and the tooth. Amalgam is extremely strong in compression (as in when chewing food) and routinely last for decades (I have some that have been in my mouth >40 years). As amalgam fillings age, the surface corrodes a bit, and actually seals tighter than when it was initially placed. Contrary to popular mythology, they do not spontaneously decompose and release mercury any more than the coins in your pocket spontaneously decompose. If they did that they would get smaller and looser over time, but they don't.

    Composite fillings (the tooth colored ones) bond to the tooth chemically and shrink as they harden, putting stress on the bond with the tooth. After thousands of thermal cycles (eating hot and cold food/drink) and mechanical cycling from chewing, the bond with the tooth fails and the filling "leaks". You get decay under the filling unless a dentist spots the failed bond and repairs it. Composite fillings typically have to be replaced in 5-10 years depending on the shape of the filling and which tooth it is in.

  74. Re:Always thought of flossing to be an American th by mark_reh · · Score: 1

    Look for teflon floss, brand name "Glide" or other.

  75. Re:Flossing now neutral? Negative next.... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    Composite fillings typically have to be replaced in 5-10 years depending on the shape of the filling and which tooth it is in.

    That's funny, a previous dentist ended up replacing all my amalgam fillings with composite ones, and now they've been in there for 10-15 years and still look great. It's been a long time so I don't remember exactly what was wrong with the mercury ones, but I seem to remember them having some kind of problem prompting him to replace them. I think one even fell out.

  76. Re:Flossing now neutral? Negative next.... by mark_reh · · Score: 1

    Yes, some dentists have given up trying to convince people of the safety and advantages of amalgam fillings and do great business taking advantage of the fear mongering that is so common on the internet these days. Some guys even go as far as wearing hazmat suits while they take out amalgam fillings.
    https://www.sciencebasedmedici...
    It's great theater! If they just took out all the silver fillings and replaced them, you might never mention it to your friends, but if they wear hazmat suits and respirators while they do it, it's all but guaranteed that you're going to tell everyone you know about it. That will get a few of your more easily influenced friends to start wondering, and pretty soon they are calling up your dentist.

    If your filling fell out, it either broke (less likely) or you developed decay under it (more likely), or the tooth fractured (possible) or a combo of those (also possible).

  77. wait, what!!! by gzuckier · · Score: 1

    oh, i thought you said MENTAL floss. Never mind.

    --
    Star Trek transporters are just 3d printers.
  78. Re:Typical by Immerman · · Score: 1

    How would that work? Grinding down makes teeth shorter, not narrower, so it doesn't make any room for additional teeth in your jaw.

    --
    --- Most topics have many sides worth arguing, allow me to take one opposite you.
  79. So? by cwsumner · · Score: 1

    So they say there are not enough scientific studies to prove the drinking water is good for you. So they are going to turn off everyone's water pipes. 8-P

    These guys are fishing for Research Grant Money ! ;-)

  80. Re:Floss? Better - interdental brush by petervandervos · · Score: 1

    My dentist first recommended flossing, some years ago she recommended using dental sticks and a few years back we indeed needed to use interdental brushes. You can get them in different sizes. If the space is really to small, use small dental sticks.

    For a large gab at the back, I use still some dental floss to get food out.

  81. Re:Flossing now neutral? Negative next.... by JeffAtl · · Score: 1

    If a person's gums are bleeding in multiple locations and have deep pockets - odds are very high the person isn't flossing.

  82. Re:Flossing now neutral? Negative next.... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    Well, it wasn't a fracture because I still have all those teeth, so it was probably additional decay under it.

    Regardless, my point wasn't about the safety of amalgam, it's about the durability of resin: I have a mouthful of resin fillings, and most of them are over 10 years old now. No dentist has said anything about them needing replacement, they're all fine. That 5-year lifespan you mention sounds like hogwash to me; it's probably attributable to some dentists who did a poor job installing them. Now of course, they haven't been around long enough to know if they'll last 40 years, but running around saying they'll only last 5 years sounds just as much like fear-mongering as what you deride about dentists who replace amalgam fillings.

    But aside from any fears about mercury, one huge, huge advantage to the resin fillings I will point out is appearance. Those amalgam fillings were *fugly*. Now when I open my mouth, it's not immediately obvious that I have any fillings at all. That alone was worth it.

  83. Re:Typical by mark_reh · · Score: 1

    It makes them narrower (mesial-distal) because the grit gets between the teeth and causes the most wear.where the pressure is greatest.

  84. Re: Coffe and Nicotine by Veretax · · Score: 1

    Only recently have I been able to floss regularly. I have a little bit of receding gum line and I have had several pretty bad Dental appointments. Some of this is due to probably eating too much sugar snacks and soda, but two things have changed it improve my teeth health. First the last two visits I got fluoride on my teeth which did a lot to help me with the liver the Sensitivity I was developing. Secondly I did make an effort to floss it may not be everyday but I noticed it improved and my doctor visit my hygenist visit was much better. I've continued to try to brush semi-regularly not daily but sometimes multiple times a day if I feel I need it and I noticed a great Improvement in the health and feeling of my teeth because of it. It since I have multiple months of evidence here even if you may say it's anecdotal evidence it works for me so I will keep doing it

  85. Re:Coffe and Nicotine by jon3k · · Score: 1

    1. Climate change denial will exist so long as there's money to be made from it.

    FTFY

  86. Re: CoffeE and Nicotine by jon3k · · Score: 1

    The same scandals came out under Reagan, Bush, and other Republicans, and nobody from the right cared. But Hillary does it, and everyone loses their mind.

    This logic is just baffling to me. So it's ok to commit a crime if someone else did?

    They lost their clearance, sometimes their jobs, but never ended up in jail.

    If it was up to me, I don't think she should be put in jail. But certainly fined and security clearances revoked, which would obviously preclude her from being president. Which is terrifying, given Donald Trump would be the alternative. (Yes, that's correct, I don't support Donald Trump.)

    Remember Patraeus (registered Republican)?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    In January 2015, the New York Times reported that the Federal Bureau of Investigation and the Justice Department had recommended bringing felony charges against Petraeus for providing classified information to Broadwell. Petraeus denied the allegations and was reported to have had no interest in a plea deal.[196] However, on Tuesday, March 3, 2015, the U.S. Justice Department announced that Petraeus agreed to plead guilty in federal court in Charlotte, North Carolina to a charge of unauthorized removal and retention of classified information.[197] On April 23, 2015, a federal judge sentenced Petraeus to two yearsâ(TM) probation plus a fine of $100,000. The fine was more than double the amount the Justice Department had requested.[198]

    Mishandling of classified information isn't a partisan issue.

  87. Re: CoffeE and Nicotine by jon3k · · Score: 1

    Not unlike HIPAA. Lots of noise, not too many actual fines or actions.

    Uh, what? You clearly don't work in healthcare or you'd know about alll the breaches and reporting rules and all of the fines levied by HHS.

    You'd think you could at least do a cursory Google search before spouting off about subjects you're completely uneducated on.

  88. Re: CoffeE and Nicotine by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    You claim 15 in 20 years is a large number (your only link with any list of breaches lists 15)? I'm well aware of the actual numbers. You disagree with an opinion, and you are the one that doesn't understand the facts.

    --
    Learn to love Alaska
  89. Re: CoffeE and Nicotine by AK+Marc · · Score: 1

    This logic is just baffling to me.

    Obviously many thing baffle you.

    So it's ok to commit a crime if someone else did?

    I can't tell if you are really that dumb, or just a liar. I never said anything Hillary did was "OK". Just that the FBI effectively cleared her. And the same people going after her are the ones that defended similar things done previously. Pointing out someone else's hypocrisy isn't the same as justifying the most recent.

    --
    Learn to love Alaska
  90. Re:Coffe and Nicotine by Hylandr · · Score: 1

    Your application of a basic mathematical concept to prove the accuracy of a formula is appreciated.

    Thank you for proving the truth of my signature.

    Have a great weekend.

    --
    ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
  91. Re: CoffeE and Nicotine by jon3k · · Score: 1

    I can't tell if you are really that dumb, or just a liar.

    How about we act like adults?

    I never said anything Hillary did was "OK".

    You're clearly attempting to minimize it.

    Just that the FBI effectively cleared her.

    That's exactly the problem, James Comey:

    Although there is evidence of potential violations of the statutes regarding the handling of classified information, our judgment is that no reasonable prosecutor would bring such a case.

    The only reason she wasn't charged is because no one is going to sacrifice their careers going after her.

    And the same people going after her are the ones that defended similar things done previously.

    This is just a strawman argument. I didn't defend anyone who did similar things. I think Patraeus got exactly what he deserved. Criminal charges, thousands in fines, disgraced and his career ruined. But because I'm not a hypocrite , I think Hilary deserves the same.

    Pointing out someone else's hypocrisy isn't the same as justifying the most recent.

    Oh great! Just so we're clear then, you agree what Hilary did was wrong, right?

  92. YOU should be OUTRAGED - at the AP and other... by martinfb · · Score: 1

    YOU, a fellow citizen, should be OUTRAGED - at the AP and other media outlets! What a twisted slant the AP has on this info!

    The fact that there MAY have been inadequate research on floss (to meet government regulations for a listing) is absolutely NO basis to presume it 'may' not be beneficial! It 'may' ALSO actually be beneficial!

    Is there a PAC of dentists that bought this misleading headline, in hopes of drumming up more clients?

    WTF?! Here's a real headline for you: "News Reporting Agencies May Actually Be Detrimental To The Welfare Of Citizens and Need More Regulation".

    --


    Self-importance and self-indulgence is the root of ALL evil.
  93. Re: CoffeE and Nicotine by mcswell · · Score: 1

    Really? where?

  94. Re:Flossing now neutral? Negative next.... by Grishnakh · · Score: 1

    Hey, I'm not the one arguing in favor of amalgam here, I'm the one arguing for the resin fillings. But that's good to know, thanks; it makes me feel better about getting rid of my mercury fillings.