Slashdot Mirror
US Finds New Secret Software In VW Audi Engines, Says Report (cnet.com)
An anonymous reader writes: It looks like Volkswagen's diesel scandal could keep rolling as reports claim that the automaker has three hidden software programs in its 3.0-liter engines. Concerns about the German car manufacturers' 2.0-liter engines could soon reach a conclusion, but the discovery of the hidden software has thrown the future of 3.0-liter diesels into uncertainty. That secret software in Volkswagen's 3.0-liter diesels can turn off the vehicles' emissions controls, Reuters reports, citing the German newspaper Bild am Sonntag. The emissions control system allegedly shuts off after 22 minutes, when most emissions tests take about 20. If this software does exist, it likely resides in all 3.0-liter diesels that Volkswagen sells in the U.S.. This includes the Audi Q7, Volkswagen Touareg and Porsche Cayenne SUVs. Approximately 85,000 of these cars are roaming around the US, and they're already under scrutiny for some software that VW "forgot" to tell regulators about.
It's all secret from the get go. I don't remember getting a source code dump with my car.
I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
Whatever punishment the government inflicts, it must exceed the profit these scams generated for VW.
Otherwise, the sociopaths at the top will just call it the cost of doing business.
Also: Watch out for VW trying to use the government penalty for a tax write-off (an old oil company trick).
Yeah, fuck witch hunts that uncover willful fraud. Oh, wait, that's not a witch hunt at all.
The EPA doesn't enforce emissions on individual vehicles. That's the states and the local police's job. The EPA is doing their job. This is not a "witch hunt". This is a "fraud hunt".
I don't respond to AC's.
Except those idiots are not really having much impact either. Its the rest of the people driving around much larger vehicles than they need all the time that matter. Lets just shit can CAFE standards entirely and start taxing people individually on their actual impact.
by-annual E-check - done on the dino at the tail pipe
1) measure fuel consumed over the test miles driven (to determine current fuel economy)
2) measure the PPM of interesting emissions in exhaust NOx, CO2, CO, others?
3) calculate the approximated amount of these gases emitted by using the current measured fuel economy, measured PPM of each type of gas and multiplying by the miles driven based on the odometer between this and the previous E-check.
4) apply tax rates for each gas emission type - bill the vehicle owner!
Do NOT fail anyone for a check engine light, high emissions etc, just notify them and let them pay the taxes. They will get it fixed before the next check or they will heavily again! This will incentivize individuals to actually maintain their vehicles, choose the most efficient vehicle that meets their needs because driving everywhere in their Suburban will cost more than driving a Sonic per mile in taxes. Yet by not actually limiting emissions people who actually *need* big stuff can still get it/operate it. The market will demand manufactures sell vehicles that don't result in high tax bills.
Do not make exceptions for classics etc, every vehicle gets tested every vehicle gets taxed.
Could individuals cheat by flashing their EFI control modules etc before they have their test and then putting it back after, well yes but they can do that kinda stuff in places that do checks now anyway. The smallish number of individuals that cheat won't amount to much.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
To save you a click-through, the three hidden programs are:
- Bing Search Bar powered by Bing
- Norton Anti-Virus one year trial version
- Candy Crush Saga
You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
I do systems engineering work. The worst I've ever been asked to do is hack together a completely unrealistic demo environment or two, basically to give our developers time to fix something they're showing to a customer. I feel bad when customers get sold something that barely functions in the real world because of it. I can't imagine what the actual engineers who got asked to implement this "workaround" were thinking at the time. Germany has one of the best engineering cultures on the planet, so I can't imagine they felt too good about this. I can only guess their jobs were threatened -- in the US it would be something like "If you can't work 90 hour weeks, I can certainly find an H-1B who can..." Unfortunately, in any culture, having no income and a family to support is a pretty good incentive to just do what the boss says.
It'll be interesting to see what happens -- having to recall/buy back basically all of your modern diesel cars is not a cheap proposition. I work with German companies all the time for my job, and I can't imagine they don't have meticulous records of email cataloged down to the millisecond showing who put this in motion. Again, part of the culture. It will certainly be an interesting case study for MBAs, if they actually studied stuff like this in business school. (I would assume the MBAs would be doing this case study to find ways to not get caught.)
Do you own stock or something?
If you dont fine them greater than the profits generate how do you get them to stop?
When you cant win, ad hominem.
Why should they be treated any differently? Perhaps you missed this, from the GP: "...multiplying by the miles driven based on the odometer between this and the previous E-check..." So, even if that classic is polluting 10x the new car, if it's driven 1/100 the miles, the bill will be 1/10 as much. Seems fair.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
Grats, you just fucked poor people who can't afford better cars and gave rich people that make enough to not care a free pass.
A bullet may have your name on it but splash damage is addressed "To whom it may concern."
Look I know my local economy would suffer a lot (I live in germany) but there is a limit. This seem to be outright fraud, just after another scandal ? That reek of corporate corruption to the highest level. And no excuse : after a first software cheat was found, an audit should have uncovered any further cheats. This can only have had the tacit or implicit high level complicity.
C. Sagan : A demon haunted world:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345409469/
visit randi.org
When companies begin cheating the system by hiding their dirty secrets in the ECU's (Engine Control Unit's) binary, it seems like the proper response to this is to begin mandating that binary in the ECU be 100% open source and able to be built with open source tools. This way, the binaries can be verified as being representative of the source code and the source code can be inspected by anyone.
Continuing on like we have will only yield the same result because the best predictor of future actions are past actions.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
In addition to the drastically higher of pollution their cars have been spewing for years, millions of people bought these under false pretenses and will now be saddled with weaker acceleration, reduced fuel efficiency and severely lower resale value (in fact the bulk of the settlement is reserved for to fund buybacks of the vehicles at pre-scandal prices). And that doesn't take into account federal and state tax deductions and credits that were fraudulently secured or the cost of the investigation and lawsuits themselves.
This was egregious and deliberate fraud at a global scale. It deserves a harsh response.
That depends on the cost-per-emissions, but it would certainly leave poor people with older cars paying more than new car owners. This is why many laws have exemptions for older vehicles.
And on that note, the idea rewards wasteful people who change their car every few years, as a massive fraction of the car's lifetime environmental impact is in the production of the car....again a good reason to give older cars a break - that cost is already sunk and driving the car longer increases the interval to the next car being produced.
You may recognize these environmental incentives as being very bad for a laissez-faire capitalist economy because it discourages people from buying more junk for no good reason. This is true, as long as the environment is an externality, capitalism is an environmental suicide pact.
"When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
Grats, you just fucked poor people who can't afford better cars and gave rich people that make enough to not care a free pass.
Grats, you just discovered how capitalism works.
The tax tables don't have to be a linear curve. If the rates were set on exponential curve we could easily avoid having poor people driving small cars pay much of anything while hitting bigger vehicles effectively.
As far as costing legit users thousands a year; well they hare are making a disproportionate use of a shared resource, arguably they should pay it. If its a commercial use they can pass the costs on; their competitors after all will be paying the same tax. If its hobby use well again maybe they should pay.
Repeal the 17th Amendment TODAY! Also Please Read http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/right-to-read.html
I love a good steak as much as anyone...but I'm often surprised at all the environmentalists out there that never bitch about this one section of the FOOD industry that contributes such a large portion of green house gas.
I guess the Ag/Food industry has better paid lobbyists?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
VW has cause to sue. According the the DMCA, you're not allowed to "reverse engineer" their proprietary software and trade secrets. This is a clear violation of VW's copyrights and trademarks.
And as we all know, corporations have way more rights than people, and since the US government is of the people, for the people, by the people, it's people, and therefore VW has more rights than it does.
So, the US government had better watch out or they could face serious fines and jail time.
If telephones are outlawed, then only outlaws will have telephones.
There are emissions and then there are CO2 emissions contributing to carbon footprint.
The cheating VW Diesels do very well, thank you very much, with respect to carbon footprint as they get really good fuel mileage. The problem is in doing that, they emit a whole bunch of stuff, which unlike CO2, is of more immediate and direct harm to people's lungs such as the nitric oxides ("NOx").
If you think the sum total of pollution is carbon footprint, you should be cheering VW's defiance of the pollution tests because it has long been argued that controlling the pollution on the EPA test (CO2 is not on the EPA test but the EU people at least rate cars on this) makes the engine much less efficient and makes the carbon footprint much worse.
Ocean going ships actually do very well on carbon footprint on a ton-mile basis because their engines are optimized for fuel economy without any consideration for their emission of the more directly human-harmful stuff.
Just because you can't think of a reason doesn't mean they don't exist.
Here's a list of people you forgot:
Farmers
Landscapers
People who regularly trailer cars or heavy equipment for whatever reason
People with non-European sized campers - see below
People with large boats - see below
When it comes to boats and campers, you are not taking wind resistance in to consideration. Many campers in the US are much taller than the tow vehicle causing massive amounts of wind resistance. This is a consideration along with weight. Same with any large boat. If it's sticking way above the roof of the towing vehicle, it probably shouldn't be towed by your sub-compact or little crossover.
Any trailer with brakes should be pulled by a full-size truck or SUV, especially if it's towed on a regular basis. Your little car may say it has a certain towing capacity, but that is assuming optimal conditions and new parts. If you are towing on a regular basis, you *will* put more strain on the drive train, suspension, and brakes than someone who doesn't. Most cars, minivans, and hatchbacks these days seem to be built as cheaply as possible so the extra wear and tear does make a difference. Vehicles that are purpose-built for this kind of work are generally heavy-duty enough to handle it.
It makes little to no financial sense, and is wasteful, to own a dedicated towing vehicle if towing is something you do even a handful to times a year. Most families can't afford more than 2 vehicles, so if towing is something needed and both adults are working, the tow vehicle needs to double as a commuter.
The only heavy haulage work involves moving concrete, sand, or building supplies, and if that's your gig then you need a light commercial vehicle.
At least in the US, full-size trucks are the light commercial vehicle of choice and are often driven to job sites by their owners. You can't really expect a construction worker--think of an independent contractor who for sure isn't making tons of money--to own a separate work vehicle.
"Frequently wrong, never in doubt."
Why should the EPA believe that their regulations are unreasonable when all these manufacturers seem to have no trouble at all meeting them without even needing to sacrifice performance?
"All these manufacturers", if you're referring strictly to passenger-car diesel engines here, are mostly all non-US. I'm not aware of any US makers of diesel passenger cars. This is probably why US diesel passenger car emission standards are more strict than most other countries. Purely to put up roadblocks against competition from foreign diesel passenger car makers in order to favor domestic makers of gasoline engines.
Follow the money/power. Who benefits? That usually answers the who & why for most issues/decisions/actions by those in power.
Strat
Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
If only there was a way to stop all sales of VW products until they passed regulatory levels. I mean, $15 billion MAY hurt, but something like losing ALL sales until you have 100% compliance would really be a kick in the nuts.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!