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Earth's Resources Used Up at Quickest Rate Ever in 2016 (france24.com)

An anonymous reader writes: In just over seven months, humanity has used up a full year's allotment of natural resources such as water, food and clean air -- the quickest rate yet, according to a new report. The point of "overshoot" will officially be reached on Monday, said environmental group Global Footprint Network -- five days earlier than last year. "We continue to grow our ecological debt," said Pascal Canfin of green group WWF, reacting to the annual update. "From Monday August 8, we will be living on credit because in eight months we would have consumed the natural capital that our planet can renew in a year."

48 of 323 comments (clear)

  1. From TFA by almitydave · · Score: 5, Insightful

    To calculate the date for Earth Overshoot Day, the group crunches UN data on thousands of economic sectors such as fisheries, forestry, transport and energy production.

    Earth-warming greenhouse gas emissions, it said, are now the fastest-growing contributor to ecological overshoot, making up 60 percent of humanity's demands on nature -- what is called the ecological "footprint".

    I've never even heard of this metric. Is this based on real science or climate activism?

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    1. Re:From TFA by umafuckit · · Score: 2, Insightful

      I've never even heard of this metric. Is this based on real science or climate activism?

      Whether or not this particular number is "real" or "climate activism" is somewhat irrelevant. The real science is very clearly telling us that our negative impact on the planet is substantial and that this is accelerating. This is the reason for the activism.

    2. Re:From TFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      To calculate the date for Earth Overshoot Day, the group crunches UN data on thousands of economic sectors such as fisheries, forestry, transport and energy production.

      Earth-warming greenhouse gas emissions, it said, are now the fastest-growing contributor to ecological overshoot, making up 60 percent of humanity's demands on nature -- what is called the ecological "footprint".

      I've never even heard of this metric. Is this based on real science or climate activism?

      Well, it's based on empirical data. You'll have to provide your personal definition of "real science" for me. Because, there's no double blind study where we instantiated multiple Earth's on January 1st and then removed all humans from one to use as the control variable. I can't believe I have to explain this but Slashdot is just getting more and more conservative lately so ... it's based on data from prior years and what is reported by country. No, it's not truly falsifiable -- then again you don't have multiple runs at this. No, nobody's actually measuring all the carbon in the air. No, nobody's actually testing that we've saturated the rate at which our resources are being replenished. We're making intelligent estimates. Well, those of us concerned with this stuff are (evidently you aren't).

      The part where you said "climate activism" means you're just going into confirmation bias here anyway so even though it won't help, I'll do the very little googling required to find their their numbers here. Just for you. Even though it doesn't matter because you've clearly already made up your mind.

    3. Re:From TFA by Alomex · · Score: 4, Insightful

      our negative impact on the planet is substantial and that this is accelerating.

      [citation needed]

      You see population growth is rapidly decelerating, albeit still positive. Hence our impact is likely to be decelerating too.

    4. Re:From TFA by almitydave · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I've never even heard of this metric. Is this based on real science or climate activism?

      Whether or not this particular number is "real" or "climate activism" is somewhat irrelevant. The real science is very clearly telling us that our negative impact on the planet is substantial and that this is accelerating. This is the reason for the activism.

      Sure, but good activism needs to have a solid foundation - the world is full of people twisting numbers and facts to suit their ends, and alarmist claims revealed to be based on bogus data do more to hurt the cause than help it. I'm not passing judgment on this particular claim, just asking.

      --
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    5. Re:From TFA by MightyMartian · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How about almost every climatology study done in the last forty years?

      I tell you what. If you don't think AGW is real, why don't you explain where all the energy being absorbed by CO2 in the atmosphere is going. Are you advocating the "magic heat sink back into space" theory?

      --
      The world's burning. Moped Jesus spotted on I50. Details at 11.
    6. Re:From TFA by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 2, Insightful

      "climate activism"

      A lot of us never trust activists of any kind because they can't help but make themselves untrustworthy. This article is an example of that kind of hysteria. The verbiage used sometimes tends to anthropomorphize consumable resources in a way that begets images of hippies in a drum circle. For example "humanity's demands on nature" conjures images of a haggard old lady being asked for her second kidney because she soon won't need it anymore. That's not science, that's an emotional appeal. From my standpoint the earth is here to be consumed as we see fit, but as we lack a suitable alternative, we probably shouldn't destroy it just yet.

      Couple this to some phony attempts to contextualize our ecological disaster in economic terms, which is a stretch at best, makes me want to ignore this entirely.

      Not that I disbelieve that we are over-consuming and over-polluting in the slightest. I'm just pointing out why this sort of reporting makes the problem worst, not better and why when people who haven't come around to your point of view, and also do not speak precisely, may try to distinguish "science" from "terrible reporting".

    7. Re:From TFA by knightghost · · Score: 2

      Hence our impact is likely to be decelerating too.

      Nope. Rise in per-person economics leads to greater use of resources.

      The calculations are correct. The planet can support 3 billion people living at a high (US level) standard of living. Let the resource wars continue...

    8. Re:From TFA by Coisiche · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I suspect that the wars over water are going to be a lot more vicious than the wars over oil ever were.

    9. Re:From TFA by Speck'sBacon · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You clearly don't understand the term "accelerating" then. Think of driving a car. Even when you're "decelerating," you're still traveling forward, but your speed is slowing. The same applies to population, but replace the word "speed" with "growth," and it's equally accurate.

    10. Re:From TFA by The+Grim+Reefer · · Score: 5, Funny

      Nature occasionally killed nearly every living thing on the planet.

      Mankind has never done that. So who's really the evil doer here? I suggest we kill nature as quickly as possible. It's the only way to save the living things on this planet. It's practically self defense.

    11. Re:From TFA by Jason+Levine · · Score: 5, Insightful

      First off, volcanos are dwarfed by the amount of carbon dioxide and other greenhouse gasses that people pump into the atmosphere annually. Secondly, what we pump into the atmosphere came from an area deep underground where it had been sequestered for millions of years. So for millions of years, the trees/plants didn't need to take care of this carbon dioxide and it wasn't part of the natural carbon cycle. Now, though, it's suddenly being tossed into the atmosphere and some people act surprised that the existing plant life can't just magically handle all of the new stuff too.

      Will climate change end life on Earth? No, it won't. Might it make life on Earth really horrible for humans? Yes. Our cities on the coastlines (where we've historically loved building cities) will get flooded. Traditional crops won't grow in their usual farm areas and the new areas that have the right temperature might not have suitable farmland/soil conditions. (If you want to grow corn in the new "corn belt" area, it won't be good if that happens to lie on a mountainous terrain.) In short, humans can pay to fix climate change now or we really pay for it later.

      --
      My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    12. Re:From TFA by nightfire-unique · · Score: 5, Informative

      You needn't worry. It will always be cheaper to make water than go to war for it.

      --
      A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
    13. Re:From TFA by dgatwood · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well, it's based on empirical data. You'll have to provide your personal definition of "real science" for me.

      Empirical data of the rate of consumption is insufficient. Without measuring whether we're really depleting resources faster than they can be replenished, any so-called "allotment" is little more than a fiction. It's an arbitrary number.

      If you had done this study in the late 1700s, they would have said that we were at the limits for how many people the world could support, too. Since then, modern agriculture has increased crop yields, brought water to fertile soil that was previously too dry to grow crops, and provided machines that can pick crops at a rate that makes it possible to support a much larger population.

      Thus, any discussion of an "allotment" is predicated upon the false assumption that resource shortages are fundamental problems with the world that cannot be corrected through technological means of increasing those resources. It is also predicated upon the dubious assumption that resource shortages won't take care of themselves without out intervention. For example, we panic about CO2 levels, worrying about a runaway greenhouse effect, forgetting that our greenhouse gas percentages are dramatically lower than they were in the distant past. This isn't an experiment. We already have empirical data from previous periods with high greenhouse gas numbers, and we know what happened: plant life flourished, died, got buried, turned into coal, and served as a carbon sink. Anyone arguing that this won't happen again is making an extraordinary claim that demands extraordinary proof.

      This is not to say that global warming isn't a concern. It is. It has the potential to turn fertile lands into deserts and vice versa. It has the potential to seriously disturb the geopolitical climate of our planet, and to make the U.S. become much more dependent upon foreign food sources (Canada in particular). It has the potential to raise the sea level, flooding coastal areas where lots of people live. It can make hurricanes and tornadoes more prevalent, costing human lives. But I think it is important to talk about the concern realistically instead of Chicken Littling the subject and acting like we're about to destroy the world. We really aren't. Earth was around for billions of years before us, and will probably be around for billions of years after we're gone.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    14. Re:From TFA by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      First derivative is velocity, second derivative is acceleration. Second derivative is negative.

    15. Re:From TFA by Alomex · · Score: 2

      Good point, but not to worry, raw growth is also decelerating.

      You can see here the medium UN variant (which historically has proven to be too pessimistic) already shows the curve slope decreasing since around 1990, i.e. deceleration of raw growth.

      Here's a chart of the growth rate.

    16. Re:From TFA by Crashmarik · · Score: 2

      Are you advocating the "magic heat sink back into space" theory?

      That's called radiative cooling

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      When you use the word magic, I think you might try "Thermodynamic" instead.

    17. Re:From TFA by ChrisMaple · · Score: 2

      Let's make a huge fleet of ships to seize America's water and send it to poor, suffering Africans. These ships will move over [blank out].

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    18. Re:From TFA by umafuckit · · Score: 3, Informative

      [citation needed]

      You see population growth is rapidly decelerating, albeit still positive. Hence our impact is likely to be decelerating too.

      Population is one factor, the other is per capita emissions and resource usage. It's the latter that's increasing. A common theme in the news recently has been the alarm expressed by scientists at the rapidity with which changes are happening. Nobody is saying that things are progressing at lower than expected rates. They're all shocked at how fast it's hitting home. People can make cute comments about Malthus to imply that there's nothing to worry about, but that's not what we're seeing. Just because Malthus wasn't right in his lifetime, that doesn't make him wrong. Malthus died in 1834: that's really not that long ago.

    19. Re:From TFA by liquid_schwartz · · Score: 4, Funny

      Our cities on the coastlines (where we've historically loved building cities) will get flooded.

      You had me at LA gets flooded. Makes me want to buy a hummer right now. That applies to both the city in California as well as the state in the South.

    20. Re:From TFA by Austerity+Empowers · · Score: 2

      obviously that just smacks of a bronze/iron age monotheistic world view that has no place in the 21st century.

      You you would replace monotheism with some form of nature god or new spiritualism that can't be defined but we all feel, far out brother? It's all shit. I do not care much about inanimate objects beyond their value to me. I have absolutely no idea where you are going with this argument, but it sounds like we should get our drums and form a circle.

      We exist, we have the capacity and intellect to put our resources to work, and we should do it. We should not consume more than we can sustain, that is where I draw the line, and I do believe on the preponderance of evidence that we are presently consuming more than we can sustain. But I can also understand where people who read articles like this have the strong urge to vomit, and reject even what few actual facts may be presented herein.

    21. Re:From TFA by Koby77 · · Score: 2

      Yeah just like how The Population Bomb determined that the peak population will be in 1990 before it starts dwindling due to food shortages and massive starvation. And also how Peak Oil will happen in the year 2000 and the price of oil will never go down after that.

      Oooops, both of those alarmist theories didn't happen. It turns out that it DOES matter if the numbers and science are real, otherwise it's just scare tactics designed to convince people to assign more political power to those who don't deserve it. AGW didn't turn out to be as dire as predicted and is failing to sufficiently scare voters, so now the alarmists want to ignore the outcomes and move on to the next crisis -- YEARLY RESOURCE ALLOTMENT?

    22. Re:From TFA by msevior · · Score: 2

      "Just because Malthus wasn't right in his lifetime, that doesn't make him wrong. Malthus died in 1834: that's really not that long ago."

      Malthus observed a historical phenomena that kept the population of Earth more-or-less constant since the agricultral revolution which in its time increased the population of the Earth by 2-3 orders of magnitude. Since the Industrial revolution and the era of economic growth all such predictions have been dramatically WRONG. Every time time humans appear to run up against a resource limitation, we've found ways around it. The most recent has been crude oil. Who talks about Peak-Oil now?

      Our main problem now is that Fossil fuels are too cheap to give up without a global carbon tax.

    23. Re:From TFA by Bob+the+Super+Hamste · · Score: 2
      Because people forget Sam Kinison:

      YOU LIVE IN A DESERT!! UNDERSTAND THAT? YOU LIVE IN A FUCKING DESERT!! NOTHING GROWS HERE! NOTHING'S GONNA GROW HERE! Come here, you see this? This is sand. You know what it's gonna be 100 years from now? IT'S GONNA BE SAND!! YOU LIVE IN A FUCKING DESERT!

      --
      Time to offend someone
    24. Re:From TFA by Curunir_wolf · · Score: 4, Informative

      Plants are evolved in a given CO2 level and their response to rapid changes is highly unpredictable - it isn't all good for plants.

      Gee, maybe someone should do some experiments to find out. You know, use some actual science. Then we can make predictions that actually work, rather than extrapolations of something so complex and untestable it's easier just to spout a bunch of alarmist propaganda.

      TL;DR plants not only grow faster and produce more biomass in higher CO2 concentrations, they are also more efficient in the use of water.

      --
      "Somebody has to do something. It's just incredibly pathetic it has to be us."
      --- Jerry Garcia
    25. Re:From TFA by silentcoder · · Score: 2

      You call a flagrant propaganda site like that 'actual science' ?!?!?!

      Funny how you did not link a peer reviewed article in a journal... oh right, because to make such a claim they would need to experiment with all sorts of plants in all sorts of ecosystems, not just cherrypick a few which will give the result they want to advocate.

      Or that complete and utter bullshit claim they make on another page that the rate of CO2 in the atmosphere has remained constant or even declined...

      At least get something that isn't debunked with links to numerous peer reviewed studies on the 'common claims' page skepticalscience.com.

      You know how you can tell an actual science education site from a bullshit propaganda site ? They link to REAL science published in REAL journals after being reviewed by other REAL scientists to back up their claims. They don't go do bullshit backyard experiments and claim groundbreaking results that somehow failed to get published in any journals and somehow miraculously did NOT get them the Nobel prize nomination which is absolutely guaranteed for anybody who could prove something THAT outrageous to contemporary science.

      Just one little example of the kind of things you are flat-out ignoring. Oceanic algae tend to proliferate in a high CO2 environment... and that is NOT a good thing, because they overgrow so much that it destroys the entire ecosystem (including blocking out sunlight to lower-living plants like kelp) and can cause massive die-outs and even extinction level events. Funny how your article made no mention - or even included any aquatic plants in their testing. Funny how it didn't factor in what happens when CO2 hits the ocean at all. It's hardly rocket science. When CO2 is disolved in water it produces carbolic acid. Which is why the ocean's acidity has been going up so much. That's a very bad thing for all sorts of creatures (inclduing most ocean plants).
      Oh and ocean plants are big deal, since they produce more than 80% of the world's oxygen supply.

      --
      Unicode killed the ASCII-art *
  2. The Earth is used up by Empiric · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Well, we had a good run.

    Or, maybe like the entire history of mankind and economics, "used up" means there's demand for more production, or alternative production.

    More CO2 is resulting in more foliage. Seems nature has it's own kind of "balancing market".

    I'll be looking for a better arbitrary wordplay metric of impending doom.

    --
    ~ Whence do you come, slayer of men, or where are you going, conqueror of space?
    1. Re:The Earth is used up by dywolf · · Score: 2

      we are putting out more than nature is able to consume or sequester.
      the added foliage isn't the only effect: in the presence of increased CO2 or heat (or both) many plants become more disease/pest prone.
      others, particularly many staple crops, produce less of the food stuffs.
      or it becomes toxic.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
    2. Re:The Earth is used up by scatbomb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      It is true that CO2 stimulates plant growth, if you isolate other factors. The problem is that we are deforesting our planet, so the net change in plant biomass is negative. Furthermore, the excess CO2 in the atmosphere is about 37% of the existing 3E12 tons of CO2 in the atmosphere, or 1.13E12 tons of excess CO2 from human activities. A single km^2 of rainforest contains about 356 tons of biomass (wikipedia), so assuming it's all carbon (it's not) we'd need another 3.2E9 km^2 of rainforest to consume all of the excess CO2 in the air. The earth's surface area (including oceans) is only 5E8 km^2. So we'd need 6.2 earth surface areas of Amazon rainforest to sequester all of the extra CO2 in the air. You see, the carbon stores were saved up from fossilization over millions and millions of years and we've attempted to release all of them into the atmosphere in about 100 years. The earth cannot "bounce back" from such a rapid change, it will take millions and millions of years for geological processes to bring carbon back into the Earth's crust. Hope that you see now this is a major problem that won't be solved by sitting back and watching. My sources are: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... and https://micpohling.wordpress.c... feel free to check my math.

    3. Re: The Earth is used up by backslashdot · · Score: 2

      We aren't using up any of those resources. We can get it back using clean energy such as solar or nuclear. For example we can get back fresh water by desalination of sea water or filtration/purification of dirty water. I am not sure what the problem is. Build more electricity production facilities (solar, nuclear) and we won't run out of anything. We have enough solar or nuclear potential to last millions of years. A 100km by 100km solar array in the Sahara could produce enough electrify for all of earth's power needs. Of course we can have smaller facilities more evenly distributed. My point is that we aren't running out of anything the water molecules are still here.

    4. Re:The Earth is used up by denzacar · · Score: 2

      The earth cannot "bounce back" from such a rapid change, it will take millions and millions of years for geological processes to bring carbon back into the Earth's crust.

      Who said it needs to go into the crust? You know what really likes carbon on this planet? Everything.

      Also, while tree-sequestered carbon can stay in that form for millennia after the tree is cut - carbon sequestered into plastic takes millions of years to become CO2 again.
      And we could just suck it out of the air and pour it into a hole in the ground.
      It's just that the trees are far more efficient and a LOT cheaper to produce.

      Also, forget rainforests. It's plankton that's making most of the air.

      --
      Mit der Dummheit kämpfen Götter selbst vergebens
    5. Re: The Earth is used up by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 2
      You are off by five orders of magnitude. But I suppose you know that. 100km^2 would at best give 3.3TWh/year.

      2012 electricity generation was 22,668TWh

  3. We ate up all the food...? by nikkipolya · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How can we end up eating all the food meant for the whole year? Who is giving the food for credit then? The Fed? Are the plants doing "Quantitative Easing" of food then?

    1. Re:We ate up all the food...? by DesertNomad · · Score: 4, Funny

      Don't know about you, but I went through my year's supply of frozen Hot Pockets and Snickers bars back in late July. We're doomed, I say, doomed.

    2. Re:We ate up all the food...? by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 2

      The planet can provide for 68-135 million hunter-gatherer humans in optimal conditions. Intensive farming raised that to hundreds of millions; GMO, fertilization, and pesticides raised that to billions. These strategies reduced the expended working time required to sustain a population's food supply (some economists argue that agriculture INCREASED work, but allowed humans to live in large-population communities which would otherwise need to forage over intractably-large areas and expend excess energy walking long distances; I argue that the work required to support a large-population community by forage is much higher than the work required to support a large-population community by agriculture, and thus that said economists are comparing dissimilar things).

      The truth is we're talking about technology. Cupping water out of a freshwater stream with your hands is technology for acquisition of water. Carrying that water to the village in buckets is technology. Pumping technology to pull freshwater reserves from underground is technology. Reservoirs and water treatment plants are technology. Desalinization is technology. At a hands-in-river level of technology, you can't support a strong, highly-productive society, and you *definitely* can't get enough water for intensive agriculture and a large population.

  4. Activism by Sycraft-fu · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You can tell from the fact that the are talking about "using up" a year's allotment of clean air. Uhhhh... No. Air doesn't work like that. While we can, and do, pollute the air we don't "use it up." What's more in terms of breathable air, pollutants in it are a local problem, not global. So in given areas there is heavy pollution that causes the air to be poor quality for breathing, however the amount is very small compared to the total amount on the planet and it doesn't cause a decrease in quality globally.

    This is another activist group. They aren't doing science, they are pushing a point of view. Science on CO2 is about it causing more thermal retention, leading to a long term increase in average temperatures. It isn't about "using up" a certain amount in a year.

    1. Re:Activism by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      You can tell from the fact that the are talking about "using up" a year's allotment of clean air. Uhhhh... No. Air doesn't work like that. While we can, and do, pollute the air we don't "use it up."

      But there are natural systems that purify/replenish air, right? And we're not so fucking stupid that we can't estimate the rate at which we're polluting and weigh it against our estimates for how these natural systems replenish it, right?

      Estimations aren't "doing science" but for the last goddamn time they are useful to policy makers.

      Here let me turn your own stupidity on yourself: You can tell from the fact that the are talking about "doing science". Uhhhh ... No, we can't run multiple instances of Earth to perform a double blind study on Earth with one Earth having people and the other Earth not having people. Therefore no falsifiable statements can be made about the two Earths. So no, it's not "doing science" to say anything about our situation.

      Grow up.

    2. Re:Activism by Ichijo · · Score: 5, Insightful

      in terms of breathable air, pollutants in it are a local problem, not global.

      False.

      --
      Any sufficiently unpopular but cohesive argument is indistinguishable from trolling.
  5. Asteroids etc by myowntrueself · · Score: 2

    Soon we will have to start mining asteroids. Then the other planets. Then we'll have to start harvesting the dust between the planets.

    Unless we develop technology to go through our Alderson point and survive the exit from the other Aldeson point thats in the atmosphere of a star.

    --
    In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
    1. Re:Asteroids etc by myowntrueself · · Score: 2

      Yeah but then we just wind up spending a shitload of resources keeping those god damned moties sequestered within their own solar system.

      You got it the wrong way around; WE are the Moties!

      --
      In the free world the media isn't government run; the government is media run.
  6. LOL what? by ShooterNeo · · Score: 2

    So, uh, what about all the minerals that are on the ocean floor and deeper than current technology makes it economical to mine? Are those resources "used up"?

    Eventually we'll run out of oil and gas to burn, but last I checked we have a crapton of unused land for solar and if we really had to there's more thorium and breedable uranium than we know what to do with...

    The ecosystem may take a hit from all this increasing activity, sure. But do humans even need it to remain viable as a species? Just how close are we to being able to grow all our food with genetic engineering, and to make all our medicine with genetically engineered organisms in vats?

    I'm under the impression that this is basically possible today, it's just a matter of how much money is available to develop the strains you want. Various FUD about genetic engineering has severely curtailed the interest in it.

    1. Re:LOL what? by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 2

      The cost of mining materials disolved in the ocean has been estimated to be over 10,000 per ounce with current technology.

      The key bit is we are consuming many resources like this.

      Magnesium, zinc, chromium (stainless steel), manganese, molybdenum, iron, coal, etc. etc. etc.

      Recycling is less to much less effective than 100%.

      The real key was holding a much lower population. We didn't do that. It's already too late.

      --
      She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
  7. Required reading - limits to growth by Maxo-Texas · · Score: 5, Informative

    http://collections.dartmouth.e...

    Some of the items are scary spot on (like the amount of carbon dioxide we would see in the atmosphere).

    A bunch of MIT types calculated that based on total assets in the earth (not just available to extract), we would hit several "limits to growth" between 2020 and 2100.

    For example: We used as much chromium in 2014 as we did from 1900 to 2000 combined.

    here's a summary of the 30 year update.
    http://www.unice.fr/sg/resourc...

    Many of their projections are following.
    Food is a little higher- but so is population.

    Here's the unavoidable situation they said we would hit.

    Using so many resources that we overshoot the carrying capacity of the earth and then permanently lower it as a result. So if 6 billion were what it could carry for a very long time, by going to 12 billion, we might reduce the capacity to 3 billion.

    And it projects a very rapid population reduction. 70 years to fall from 12 billion back to 1950s level populations.

    The projection is we'll run low on multiple indusrial metals at the same time and prices of those metals will skyrocket.

    ---

    Now the fun bit. It's too late to do anything about it. We passed the point of no return back in the 1990s. It's a genuine "bend over and kiss your ass goodbye" situation.

    And the good news... Many of us will be dead by 2040-2050 when it starts to get nasty tho we may see some signs as early as 2035 (I'll be 74 then-- my most likely lifespan is to 2038).

    --
    She was like chocolate when she drank... semi-sweet at first and then increasingly bitter.
    1. Re:Required reading - limits to growth by almitydave · · Score: 4, Funny

      Now the fun bit. It's too late to do anything about it. We passed the point of no return back in the 1990s. It's a genuine "bend over and kiss your ass goodbye" situation.

      And the good news... Many of us will be dead by 2040-2050 when it starts to get nasty tho we may see some signs as early as 2035 (I'll be 74 then-- my most likely lifespan is to 2038).

      Don't be so pessimistic - at the rate medical science is advancing, you'll be able to live well into the apocalypse!

      --
      my, your, his/her/its, our, your, their
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    2. Re:Required reading - limits to growth by dgatwood · · Score: 3, Insightful

      IMO, they're probably wrong, because they're ignoring fungibility. As the cost of the rarer metals goes up, other materials will take their place, and the net impact on society as a whole will be minimal.

      In the grand scheme of things, you really only need a couple of metals to get things done—iron and copper. Fortunately, these are also two of the most plentiful metals in Earth's crust, so we're not going to run out of either one for the foreseeable future, though the cost of extracting copper may go up as the quality of ore deposits decreases.

      As for the others, right now, people use chromium because of stainless steel, but powder coats or sealants could serve the same purpose in many situations. We might run low on lithium, which is a problem for batteries, but we're also on the cusp of getting supercapacitor capacity to the point where many uses of lithium will no longer be needed, making that largely moot in the long term. And so on. And we use metal for many things that we could use plastics for, too (either oil-based or plant-based).

      Like I said, fungibility.

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  8. FTA by doug141 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Fishery depletion.

  9. Re:If Water is Scarce by nightfire-unique · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Seventy-one percent of the Earth is covered by water. We simply lack the technology to change that statistic.

    Water cannot be "scarce" on Earth.

    It is expensive to desalinate water. However, war is many orders of magnitude more expensive.

    Think of it this way: $0.25USD per 1,000L of desalinated water vs $2.50USD per 1,000L of ground or lake water taken by force.

    There may be minor skirmishes over specific rivers, but there will never be war because it is not economically advantageous.

    --
    A government is a body of people notably ungoverned - AC
  10. Re:If Water is Scarce by Namarrgon · · Score: 2

    No, but Israel's desalination plants are operating at under $0.40 / 1000L. Costs have come down a lot.

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    Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?