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Microsoft Extends Again Support For Windows 7, 8.1 Skylake-based Devices (zdnet.com)

Posted by msmash on from the buy-more-time dept.

Microsoft says it is giving more time to users on Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 devices running sixth generation Intel Skylake chips. Earlier the company had said that it would end support for such systems on July 17, 2018 (before that the end date was July 17, 2017). Today's announcement further pushes the deadline, giving Windows 7 users till January 14, 2020, and Windows 8.1 users till January 2023. ZDNet adds: Today's latest change to the Skylake support cut-off dates also applies to Windows Embedded 7, 8 and 8.1 devices. As of this latest change, supported devices running Skylake -- here's the list of PCs that qualify, along with embedded devices -- will get all applicable security updates for Windows 7 and 8.1 until the end of support dates for each product. What we don't really know is why Microsoft made this latest change. Did Intel "fix" Skylake? Did customers, especially those wanting to downgrade to Windows 7, complain a lot? The official word is "This change is designed to help our customers purchase modern hardware with confidence, while continuing to manage their migrations to Windows 10."

85 comments

  1. Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by danbob999 · · Score: 2

    coincidence?

    1. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My bet is someone big with a very large contract said 'support this or we go linux'.

    2. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Of course not. The intent for the free Windows 10 upgrade was to get everyone onto one codebase so they could repurpose half the maintenance and debugging efforts, ideally by focusing all of those efforts on three UIs of what is basically the same OS.

      Since much of the userbase refused to upgrade, Microsoft is conceding to user demand and extending support. No surprise at all. This same dance will probably keep going until 2030, when 7 finally goes out of extended, extended, extended, long-term support.

    3. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      You mean almost any company anywhere?

      We're getting Windows 10 shoved down our throats. My productivity is going to drop.

    4. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by donaldm · · Score: 3

      coincidence?

      You have a point there. I have the Skylake chipset with a GA-Z170M-D3H motherboard and it's latest BIOS is "f7". Just to be sure I checked the update site and it is still the same. I guess they have not got the memo yet.

      My motherboard only supports Windows 8, 10 and "other OS, which means it supports Linux. Since I run Fedora 24 I can even use secure boot if I wish although by default it was not enabled.

      --
      There ain't no such thing as proprietary standards only proprietary formats. Standards are by definition open.
    5. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Really? I seriously doubt that. 10 is not *that* much different than 7. I take it you have not really used 10 at all.

      You are probably right about 'almost any company' being mad about it. But my bet is someone *big* like an AT&T or Verizon said fix it. Basically someone big who can splash out on the news to their share holders how much money they are saving. When most of their cost is support anyway. They can get the CEO to pundit on MSNBC how much better it is. But it looks good and zings MS. A few hundred employees? MS will say 'whatev' and tell you take it or leave it. Someone with 200k employees? They can change the rules for. I don't think you quite realize how big some of those MS contracts are. I do. I have seen the eye bleeding numbers. They are massive and significant parts of MS income.

    6. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by The+Real+Dr+John · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Well, considering that MS made their OS into a service as a way to push ads for the app store, which really has nothing to do with desktop computers, and took away lots of control from users, it is not surprising that half the user base stayed with Windows 7 despite Microsoft's underhanded tactics in trying to force the "service" onto people's computers. I still think they might be able to get more people to switch if they made a Windows 10 Ultimate version that people could buy that was based on the Enterprise version, just like they did with Windows 7 Ultimate. But turning the OS into an app store ad interface while taking lots of control away from users is never going to fly with the remaining Windows 7 user base. MS could not have screwed up much worse.

      --
      A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
    7. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by QuietLagoon · · Score: 2

      ...The intent for the free Windows 10 upgrade was to get everyone onto one codebase...

      To me, it appeared that the main intent of the free Windows 10 upgrade was to rain massive data harvesting down upon the users of Windows. The unification of the codebase was a nice side benefit.

      ...Since much of the userbase refused to upgrade, Microsoft is conceding to user demand and extending support....

      Or Microsoft has found a way to back-port the data harvesting to Windows 7.

      "Conceding to user demand" - oh, that is so cute when you say it.

    8. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Windows 10 interrupts workflow by doing updates (wasting bandwidth, CPU time and RAM) and rebooting when it wants. Windows 10 wastes bandwidth by constantly sending personal information back to M$. Windows 10 wastes system resources by constantly running a lot of unneeded and unwanted background services, like Cortana, Xbox and the entire Metrosexual mobile phone subsystem. Windows 10 reverts all user changes, defaults or hacks with every single forced update resulting in lost time by making the user have to set everything back to their preferences every single time. The user has zero control over any of this.

      Sorry but I would rather use my computer, not engage in a perpetual battle with it as Windows 10 requires.

    9. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I still think they might be able to get more people to switch if they made a Windows 10 Ultimate version that people could buy that was based on the Enterprise version, just like they did with Windows 7 Ultimate.

      I feel it is too late for that. Microsoft has lost my trust many times over with their downright unscrupulous action regarding Windows 10 and backported spyware for Windows 7 and 8. I don't even do system updates any more because I weigh them to be much more risky and damaging than the small possibility that my systems might get injected by viruses or (third party) malware.

      Microsoft has done too much damage to their image to ever be trusted with anything again.

    10. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by The+Real+Dr+John · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Agreed, but Windows updates can still be managed if you do due diligence in checking into each of them before installing. That's the beauty of having control over your updates in Windows 7. You are still in control. Woody on Windows over at InfoWorld does a great job of keeping track of the bad vs. the good patches. Of course we shouldn't have to think twice about installing updates to our OS, and shouldn't have to spend one minute checking if they are adware or spyware, but that is the deal with the devil that MS made. We will see if they change their minds when their market share slips more and more. They assumed everyone would capitulate and just allow the "upgrade" because it was "free" (except for the forced ads). They assumed wrong. They are probably in for more pain in the future as the lawsuits work their way through the courts. They have pretty much squandered any good will from their customers, and now they will have to live with the blow-back from their poor decisions. They deserve everything bad that ensues.

      --
      A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
    11. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      To me, it appeared that the main intent of the free Windows 10 upgrade was to rain massive data harvesting down upon the users of Windows. The unification of the codebase was a nice side benefit>

      Agreed.

      I find it odd, also, that Android and Apple wouldn't agree to gov't requests to help provide a "EasyIn(tm)" method of spying on/getting data off of any device they wish, yet around the same time Microsoft releases the first "Free" major version of their operating system... ever. It's not a bit of a conspiracy theory that they decided to play along and are probably getting some kind of benefits from the gov't in return.

      Coincidence happens, but sometimes it isn't. Perhaps it was going to be the big ol' OS to compete with the iOS/'Droid playforms...er..platforms, but ended up being a double benefit to them. Just sayin'. Follow the money and it usually leads to shit. Pun intended.

    12. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by simplypeachy · · Score: 2
      "...considering that MS made their OS into a service as a way to push ads for the app store..."

      That's not a fair statement. Come now.

      They also push ads for Office upgrades and replace your specifically-chosen default programs with their own. So let's not sell them short.

    13. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by The+Real+Dr+John · · Score: 1

      OK, I admit that I failed to note their full beneficence on behalf of their loyal customers.

      --
      A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
    14. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by Hylandr · · Score: 1

      Windows updates can still be managed if you do due diligence in checking into each of them before installing.

      I tried this, then a reinstall later I just boot-loaded it and disabled it from ever calling home after SP1 and a few other basic updates.

      I am dual booting for now, and only use Windows for gaming. Too bad Overwatch is only PC or playstation right now. :(

      --
      ~ People that think they are better than anyone else for any reason are the cause of all the strife in the world.
    15. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by Gr8Apes · · Score: 1

      disabled it from ever calling home

      It's been the only way to deal with it ever since MS created it.

      --
      The cesspool just got a check and balance.
    16. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by The+Real+Dr+John · · Score: 1

      We all know that it could have been different if MS had chosen a wiser path, and worked with their customer base. The whole Windows 10 insider program was a sham from the beginning. They listened to the sycophants that agreed with everything they were doing, and ignored all the input from long time power users who hated the new direction. Someday we may all wake up and be shocked to find that suddenly companies actually started to act like members of the community, rather than evil overlords. At least we can dream.

      --
      A brain is a terrible thing to waste... Mind? That's debatable.
    17. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Bullshit. Windows 7 doesn't have tons of background crap running that nobody wants and it doesn't steal personal data or bandwidth like Windows 10.

      Go shill somewhere else, M$ goon.

    18. Re: Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I detected notes of silliness from the start which were only confirmed on reaching "Metrosexual". How do you expect anyone to take you seriously?

    19. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. Windows 7 doesn't have tons of background crap running that nobody wants and it doesn't steal personal data or bandwidth like Windows 10.

      Go shill somewhere else, M$ goon.

      It looks like the enterprise version can turn it off, which admittedly is not a solution, but it does prove that microsoft has the functionality to do it. (Even if they didn't, they could make it.)

      As far as bandwidth goes, I doubt that is significant, but monitoring by default without having a clear option to say no in the install is a very bad thing. Still performance wise win 10 is fine, despite the background crap. At least it doesn't come preloaded with McCafee. You have to add that pile of crap afterwards, or, more likely your enterprise may do it for you.

      If apple is smart they will use the telemetry as a way to bash microsoft over the head again and sell apple products. In fact, a nice several month advertising campaign might get a turn off nob added for those of us without the enterprise load.

    20. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      here's how we managed the "migration" to windows 10. 8>10 and well, everything>10, so we bought windows 8 pro retail upgrades instead -- at a ridiculous close-out price that wouldn't have even covered manufacturing, packaging, and shipment to the retailer.

      since they're retail licenses, we'll use them first on the xp and (early next year) vista systems, then when they are taken out of service (i.e. hardware failure), we'll transfer them (as allowed by the *retail* licensing) over to 7s around the time that it get deep-sixed by microsoft in early 2020.

      when 2023 comes and 8 bites the big one, too, we will hopefully see a return to a more sane approach to windows.. if not that, we'll use whatever debian stable is at that time and totally kick the microsoft habit.

      now, we did "reserve" windows 10 upgrades on many eligible systems (clone the existing drive, disconnect that one, upgrade the clone instead, rinse & repeat), but the odds of us actually USING it is somewhere between "never, not gonna happen" and "fuck no, not a chance in hell".

      i sure hope microsoft isn't counting those "reserves" (and the many many others like it) towards they're "1 billion devices" goal, because that would be misleading advertising and fraudulent sec filings, as we aren't actually using it, nor is it actually installed on *anything*.

    21. Re: Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hit a nerve? The truth often hurts.

    22. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It looks like the enterprise version can turn it off, which admittedly is not a solution, but it does prove that microsoft has the functionality to do it. (Even if they didn't, they could make it.)

      Of course they can, that's not the issue.

      As far as bandwidth goes, I doubt that is significant, but monitoring by default without having a clear option to say no in the install is a very bad thing.

      As far as the significance of the bandwidth usage, the individual user is the only one capable of making that judgment. It's bad form for Microsoft to just start using up bandwidth whenever they please without permission. It's even worse that they harvest personal data and can legally steal any intellectual property that you have on your PC. Their EULA grants them a worldwide, perpetual commercial license to use any and all content on your PC for any reason that they want. That is pure bullshit and should be reason enough for everyone to reject Windows 10.

      Still performance wise win 10 is fine, despite the background crap.

      It's not. Because of the RAM it wastes, people who do work that is memory intensive lose a lot of performance. It also wastes bandwidth and increases network latency, which too is critical for the work I do.

      If apple is smart they will use the telemetry as a way to bash microsoft over the head again and sell apple products. In fact, a nice several month advertising campaign might get a turn off nob added for those of us without the enterprise load.

      I always hated Apple, but it seems that they are the least worst option now. I certainly don't trust Microsoft and I only trust Google slightly more (because they don't make my computer's OS and are much more easy to avoid).

    23. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      The question then is can you trust M$ to not change the rules after they sell it to you for double the price behind a bunch of wishy washy marketing terms. So windows SE secure edition for the first year on the upgrade becomes windows anal probe+ with deeper penetrations, more power cycle pumping and bigger bandwidth flows and endless marketing ejaculations, just when you thought the experience could not become more unpleasant they make it worse and this all with the backing of the US government because they are also getting a piece of your ass via specifically personally targeted non-patches don't remove bug, they insert them, even into your hardware firmware. Will they change the rules after sufficient people force them to put them in place, of course.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    24. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by jezwel · · Score: 1

      Bullshit. Windows 7 doesn't have tons of background crap running that nobody wants and it doesn't steal personal data or bandwidth like Windows 10.

      Go shill somewhere else, M$ goon.

      here I thought Slashdot was up in arms about the upgrading of Win7+ to include telemetry included in Win10?
      KB3022345 Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry.
      KB3068708 (replaces KB3022345) Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry
      KB3080149 Update for customer experience and diagnostic telemetry

    25. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does Windows 7 come with those updates? Are those updates optional? Can those updates be removed after they have been installed?

      Now how about Windows 10?

    26. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What the hell are you talking about? Windows 10 is massively different - The UI changes are even more confusing than the UI changes in the newer versions of Office to users of 2003 or older versions!

      Windows 10's UI is only slightly less annoying to use than Windows 8, and only because the Start Menu doesn't take up the whole screen, but it's still stupid and ignores Start Menu folder structures, and everything is as unusable or more so than Windows 8.

      And this is just the UI, nevermind the HUGE amounts of bandwidth and disk space it wastes updating itself and storing old copies of itself, not to mention the vast number of annoying nitpicky things like random behaviour when trying to group-select objects (Sometimes it group selects, sometimes it drags the object) and legions of other things...

    27. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Way to address literally zero of his points, numbnuts.

    28. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by Lonewolf666 · · Score: 1

      Don't forget that the Windows 7 life cycle was originally announced as "extended support until Jan 2020". Microsoft then tried to partially revoke that promise and said "new generations of computers won't get support until 2020, buy those with Win10".

      They have now backtracked on this, but that is merely returning to their original support promises. A true extension would be Windows 7 support past 2020.

      --
      C - the footgun of programming languages
    29. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Windows 10 interrupts workflow by doing updates (wasting bandwidth, CPU time and RAM) and rebooting when it wants.

      Update downloads use next to zero CPU.
      Updates are rare and low enough on bandwidth that if this is causing productivity problems your business is about to go bankrupt anyway but due to your ISP not Microsoft.
      Updates install when YOU reboot, and all versions of Windows give you the option to set this. This is incidentally also a setting which prevents you from getting large updates on release date and letting someone else beta test them for you.

      Windows 10 wastes bandwidth by constantly sending personal information back to M$.

      Windows 10 consumes a tiny minuscule portion of bandwidth to do this. If this is a problem for you it's time to upgrade your 56k modem.

      Windows 10 wastes system resources by constantly running a lot of unneeded and unwanted background services, like Cortana, Xbox and the entire Metrosexual mobile phone subsystem.

      Cortana is an on demand service.
      Xbox is an on demand service.
      The Metro interface is on demand and enabled by tablet mode.

      Incidentally Windows 10 has a much smaller system footprint and is lighter on resources than Windows 7 was so you clearly don't actually care about this.

      Windows 10 reverts all user changes, defaults or hacks with every single forced update resulting in lost time by making the user have to set everything back to their preferences every single time.

      Windows 10 reverts a couple of user changes or defaults with the occasional rare update resulting in an decreased productivity so low that if you're relying on it you're about to go bankrupt anyway.

      Sorry but I would rather use my computer, not engage in a perpetual battle with it as Windows 10 requires.

      You spent more time writing this post than the average user "battles" their Windows 10 computer in a given month. If you cared so much about your time we wouldn't be having this discussion.

    30. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In other words: You're holding it wrong, right?

      Ahh, no Spyware 10 story would be complete with some M$ shills like "thegarbz" downplaying issues, making up pathetic excuses and outright lying about stuff.

    31. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by 0111+1110 · · Score: 1

      Wow. That sounds awful. I'm never going to downgrade to Win10 in that case. I will have to wait to see if MS ever releases a real OS again.

      The biggest problem is the motherboard manufacturers. Eventually they stop making drivers for old MS OSes. So you can't upgrade to new CPUs. Of course now that Intel fired most of their R&D staff and has dropped their tick-tock strategy maybe upgrading a CPU won't be an issue anymore. Not that it is a major issue now that Moore's Law is mostly dead.

      If this continues I hope that some Windows only software devs (like game devs) will consider starting to develop for Linux. Windows should just die imho.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    32. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by 0111+1110 · · Score: 0

      I always hated Apple, but it seems that they are the least worst option now

      You mean aside from Linux? I don't consider buying overpriced hardware just to avoid Microsoft to be a great option even if the industrial design is always top notch. I don't really like the default windows manager in OS X. Linux lets you actually choose what GUI you want both in terms of how it looks and how it works. Now *that* should be the future of mass market OSes. I always wondered why MS and Apple did not emulate that Linux feature and let users actually customize the look and features of the OS. Just stupidity or naked evil and wanting people to suffer as much as possible? Probably the latter.

      --
      Quite an experience to live in fear, isn't it? That's what it is to be a slave.
    33. Re:Right after the end of the free Win10 upgrade by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If Linux had more professional applications and games, I would use it. That's the reason I'm considering Apple over it.

  2. Let it go by Billly+Gates · · Score: 1

    Change happens and life continues just fine. You can still continue to use what works

    --
    http://saveie6.com/
    1. Re:Let it go by TheGratefulNet · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I use win7 for windows based things. I almost never have it access a public network, if I can help it.

      I have turned off updates a year ago or more; when the ftdi-gate first happened, I gave up trusting any MS updates. with win10 madness, I was reassured my decision was still valid.

      win7 is fine and if you avoid the bad patches and ignore updates, PLUS you stay the full off the internet and use linux or some other safer os to do online stuff, 'support' from MS is now meaningless.

      I won't ever take another MS update. that ship has sailed. but again, I am careful not to put my machine online; which really was always the smart way to deal with windows.

      --

      --
      "It is now safe to switch off your computer."
    2. Re:Let it go by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Change happens and life continues just fine. You can still continue to use what works

      Translation: Kowtow and obey your corporate overlords. Give up all privacy, all of your intellectual property rights and all control over your computer, for you are just a number and you don't matter.

      Yeah, go dig a hole and die in it, shill.

    3. Re:Let it go by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You sound like you're behind systemd.

  3. What changes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What changes after support ends? Microsoft is dropping support for what exactly?

    I mean, the way I see it, unless you compile your operating system with special flags (which is the domain of the Gentoo users and people with too much time on their hands*), why the hell would the OS even care which CPU it is running on?

    If it is about chip features such as power saving and the like, isn't that handled by the driver (which is published by Intel and already exists)? Is Microsoft planning on going back to the past and destroy the Intel driver?

    How does this affect the average user. I can't post a productive Microsoft rant without knowing why this is a bad thing! Help me out!

    * I'm kidding of course. I use Gentoo on my primary machine and I RARELY (once a week) fiddle with the compile flags.

    1. Re:What changes by darkain · · Score: 2

      CPU "Support" by an OS is primarily revolved around the CPU microcode support: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... - The OS contains updates to the microcode instructions where issues have been discovered and corrected after the manufacturing of the chip.

    2. Re:What changes by sexconker · · Score: 1

      That's what BIOS (or "UEFI") updates are for.
      The OS shouldn't even know of the CPUs microcode.

    3. Re:What changes by Ingenium13 · · Score: 2

      Not necessarily. For example, proper IOMMU isolation for PCH root ports was broken on Skylake Xeon E3 series CPUs on Linux prior to version 4.7. This affects basically every linux distro other than Arch currently. It basically lumped everything together into a single IOMMU, which is a problem if you're trying to do PCI passthrough or SR-IOV for virtual machines. Skylake has a change in the way ACS needs to be enabled. See http://www.serverphorums.com/r...

      I ended up having to backport the patch to the 4.4 kernel in Ubuntu https://ubuntuforums.org/showt...

      So basically, yeah, there are things other than microcode support that an OS would need for newer CPUs.

    4. Re:What changes by angryargus · · Score: 2

      You're talking theory, but the reality is that BIOS/UEFI updates aren't made very often (especially on consumer desktops). Hence OSes have their own microcode update mechanisms. MSFT rarely updates the Windows OS microcode (only for big issues) hence there can be a need for other ways to update like this driver.

    5. Re:What changes by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

      they moved to PCH from pci-e 2.0 to pci-e 3.0

  4. what's wrong with skylake? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that it would need fixing?

    1. Re:what's wrong with skylake? by NotAPK · · Score: 1

      NSA support.

      Skylake has extensive side-band capabilities.

      My take is the NSA asked Microsoft to integrate these with the OS. They probably agreed to do so for 8 and 10, but drew the line at v7, "too much money for an old OS".

      Hence the big announcement that Win7 would not "support" Skylake. They spun this as being bad for users, but of course (and as you indicate) regular x64 code will run without any issues at all.

      While I've had this theory for a while, I concede that the Linux team had to spend a fair amount of time implementing Skylake support.

    2. Re:what's wrong with skylake? by gweihir · · Score: 1

      That is nonsense. MS already owns the OS and the OS is closed-source. They do not need any CPU "side-band" (whatever that is supposed to mean) capabilities.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    3. Re:what's wrong with skylake? by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      That is nonsense. MS already owns the OS and the OS is closed-source. They do not need any CPU "side-band" (whatever that is supposed to mean) capabilities.

      Huh? If you don't understand what something means, why not ask?

    4. Re:what's wrong with skylake? by poofmeisterp · · Score: 1

      NSA support.

      Skylake has extensive side-band capabilities.....

      What are the extensive side-band capabilities you are mentioning? Very curious!

    5. Re:what's wrong with skylake? by NotAPK · · Score: 1

      VPro has been around for a while now, it was only natural that it would be subverted by NSA interests.

    6. Re:what's wrong with skylake? by NotAPK · · Score: 3, Interesting

      VPro is one example of side-band exploits. I'm happy for someone to provide a more accurate term, if one exists.

      The general idea is that the CPU contains a side-band CPU running its own code, access to all peripherals, and the ability to access RAM and storage at its discretion. It's a three-letter-agency's wet-dream, and while there are many benefits to corporate users (reboot/cold-boot systems and re-image HDDs even with a non-functional primary OS) the lack of clear documentation and questions over a user's ability to disable these subsystems, certainly raises red flags for many.

      The timing was about right, and the sudden need for "extensive support" in SkyLake has not been adequately explained. Happy to see some solid links or citations to the contrary, but to date, it just doesn't pass the wiff test.

    7. Re:what's wrong with skylake? by gweihir · · Score: 1

      It does not really have a meaning in the given context.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    8. Re:what's wrong with skylake? by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Call is a "remote management engine" or a "remote hardware backdoor". That is more descriptive and more common. Especially, as this sits in the chip-set in some cases and not always in the CPU.

      However, I re-iterate, Microsoft does not need any of those to break your security. These are for attacks when the OS vendor does not cooperate.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    9. Re: what's wrong with skylake? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I see what you mean. :)

    10. Re:what's wrong with skylake? by NotAPK · · Score: 1

      I see what you're saying, but why does this line of CPUs require such extensive new driver support?

    11. Re:what's wrong with skylake? by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Probably power-management, maybe other drivers for on-chip hardware. A hardware-backdoor would not need driver support at all, or it becomes pretty worthless. The whole point of a hardware-backdoor is that it does _not_ require software support.

      Also note that this support is likely not "needed" so much, but makes things work better. With the press being ever more clueless, otherwise MS could face headlines like "Win7 and 8 is stops to support Skylake CPUs" or the like.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    12. Re:what's wrong with skylake? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      gwehir is probably right; Skylake power management is different than previous architectures.

      Skylake's power management under Linux is dreadful and you shouldn't buy one until it's fixed
      https://mjg59.dreamwidth.org/41713.html

      Skylake's Linux power management is dreadful you shouldn't buy until it's fixed
      https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11492070

    13. Re:what's wrong with skylake? by gweihir · · Score: 1

      Nice find.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  5. The Real Reason is - by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Microsoft doesn't do anything to be nice.
    They don't do anything because they like their customers.
    They never have and they never will.
    So, what is the real reason for this announcement?
    Any ideas?

    1. Re:The Real Reason is - by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Considering that M$ had tried to use the scare tactic of "oh noes, ur old windoze won't work with new CPUs" in order to trick people into downgrading to Spyware 10 and are now backpedalling from that stance after the aggressive "free" downgrade offer was a massive failure, I'm going to say it's to keep users from completely jumping ship. Better for M$ to have users on Windows 7 and 8 than to have them leave for Mac OS, Chrome OS, Android, Linux, etc.

      M$ never imagined that users would make a stand, which is why they got more and more hostile with the Spyware 10 downgrade offer as time went on and few people were biting. I think M$ has come to realise that Windows doesn't have the influence that it once commanded via software monopoly and that users are not averse to using a different OS any more.

  6. Re:But do they extend support by wierd_w · · Score: 1

    the buttfuckngs will continue, they have just reached the deadline on thier offers of free lube.

    now the real fucking starts.

  7. Manage migration to win10 as in "never do it" by gweihir · · Score: 1

    I guess MS will still rather have people on Win7/Win8 than gong completely for alternatives. And because Win10 is an absolute no-go for quite a few people that have actually looked at what it means, it is either that or lose these customers.

    --
    Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
    1. Re:Manage migration to win10 as in "never do it" by rrohbeck · · Score: 2

      > Enterprise customers are moving to Windows 10 faster than any version of Windows.

      LOL. At work the word is still "hell no." And as we move away from old crufty SW we make sure that all updates or replacements are open enough so they work with Linux.

      --
      thegodmovie.com - watch it
    2. Re:Manage migration to win10 as in "never do it" by gweihir · · Score: 1

      The large enterprises where I know the IT are still recovering from the move to Win7. One upgraded the last users end of 2014. They will not move to Win10 anytime soon and with all the UI changes and BS features that have no place in a workplace, I expect many large enterprises will not even seriously consider it before there is no choice. And with enough pressure, I bet Win7 will get enterprise support way beyond 2020, if the alternative is losing the customers completely.

      --
      Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
  8. That works for me by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    That should be about the same time that DX12 support becomes an issue. At which point I'm just going to shine the whole AAA gaming thing on, apparently. Or maybe by then Bethesda and R* will start releasing for Linux. Naaaah

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  9. enterprise users pushing back by Joe_Dragon · · Score: 1

    Enterprise users pushing back A lot of places have really moved to 7 and 10 is to soon. As for 8.1 some places are using they starting to move to it be for windows 10 / windows 10 LTSB came out. And with windows 8.1 10 is an easy upgrade.

    London's Met Police still has some XP moving to 8.1 with plans for an in-place upgrade to Windows 10

  10. Windows Update Trust Broken by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Abused trust to install an entire operating system without consent from within Windows Update. No one will ever trust Windows updates again. Every update is labeled generically as "security update for Windows 7 for x64 based systems" or "update for Windows 7 for x64 based systems". Forces users to waste time looking up each individual KB. Been that way since XP. Treating us like idiots. I want to know exactly what a KB is for without spending 5 minutes to look it up and research exactly what's included. Do I really need a synaptic update if I don't have a laptop, of course not. So why is there is an update for it sitting there waiting for me to install? Instead of getting better with each successive OS it got worse, dramatically worse.

    Let's say a particular update is known for killing computers (boot loop situation which has known to happen), there is no way to disable that update from happening. It's like watching a ticking time bomb slowly coming to destroy your computer. Forced updates are a god awful idea for those that know what they are doing. Granted the majority of the world are normal users that might be happy with automatic updates... so give them the options FFS. That's what was great about Windows 7 updates.

    1. Re: Windows Update Trust Broken by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You have a point. I've never understood why each patch doesn't have a link to the KB article instead of making us Google them individually.

  11. Windows ANNIVERSARY 10 on FBI Slashdot today? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wow who cares? Windows is shit, Microsoft is a US Spy corporation that spies globally.

    have a nice day.

  12. They didn't change anything by slashmydots · · Score: 1

    This is utterly ridiculous. About 3 years ago I looked at the end date of 7 and it was universally stated as Jan 2020. Now they claim they're "moving" it to 2020? I've been telling my customers every single day for the last few years that the cutoff was Jan, 2020 so obviously they, at some point, moved it backwards then forwards again to pretend they're doing something.

    1. Re:They didn't change anything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slashdot is under control of the Federal Bureau of Investigations

      BurEAU HD is a bureau head.

    2. Re:They didn't change anything by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Non-security support already ended for Windows 7 in 2015. Security patch support ends in 2020.

      Maybe they mean non-security support will last until 2020 for these PCs? Who knows. This is what happens when marketing-speak invades tech notes.

    3. Re: They didn't change anything by bestweasel · · Score: 1

      I looked 3 weeks ago and it said that Microsoft will continue providing extended support (security updates) for Windows 7 until January 2020. They stopped providing other updates in January 2015. I didn't notice anything about specific CPUs.

    4. Re:They didn't change anything by jonwil · · Score: 1

      What happened is that Microsoft originally said that people with Skylake hardware would stop getting updates for Windows 7 and 8 on some earlier date than the date at which people with older hardware stop getting those updates. Now it seems like the date for Skylake users to stop getting updates (including security updates) for Windows 7 matches the date at which people with older hardware will stop getting those updates.

      As someone who upgraded from a Core 2 Duo to a Skylake i5 in January (before Microsoft announced anything regarding Skylake) this is a good thing from Microsoft. Means I can keep using Windows 7 (and getting security updates for it) for as long as any other Windows 7 user.

  13. Re:Can you say FUD children? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I thought you could!

    FEAR!

    UNCERTAINTY!

    DOUBT!

    Say it agiiinnnn!

    You should also add the following:
    - Embrace
    - Extend
    - Extinguish

  14. Time frame to abandon winblows now. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Good, I will have left Windows well in the dust by then. Good riddance. I am not too pleased with Microsoft's way of handling client concerns, which is to say, ignore them or issue empty platitudes.

  15. Deception yet again by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is deception with a capital D.

    Know what I think? There was never any real problem with Skylake. There was never any fundamental, critical flaw that would prevent Windows 7 from running on the Skylake platform. Would the new microarchitecture have features not fully supported on Windows 7? Sure, but nothing worth writing home about.

    Skylake is an iterative microarchitecture from Haswell, but not so different as to cause serious problems. The NetBurst to Core transition was more of jump, yet one could use Windows XP or 2K on the new platforms.

    So this raises the question, why would Microsoft impose such a deadline, and then move it several times? Well, simply put, it was a way they could herd more folks into Windows 10. Great plan, right? Tell 'em their shiny new hardware won't run Windows 7 in a short time. They'll have to reformat and move to Windows 10 down the road. And isn't it funny that this announcement comes shortly after the Free Upgrade offer ended (allegedly)? I actually decided against buying the Skylake platform because of this. I was going to upgrade my gaming rig from Ivy Bride to Skylake for the chipset benefits. Once I found out about early EOL for Windows 7 on Skylake platforms, I decided to wait.

    Sure, some may argue that my take is a tinfoil hat conspiracy. And I'm not denying it is on some level because I don't join any of Mr. Nadella's conference calls. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if Microsoft is ever deceptive in the future. I mean, since this is their very first offense at tricking people, and everyone deserves a second chance...