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Companies Can't Legally Void the Warranty For Jailbreaking Or Rooting Your Phone (vice.com)
Reader Jason Koebler writes: Manufacturers that threaten to void the warranties of consumers who jailbreak or root their phones are violating federal law.
Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975, manufacturers cannot legally void your hardware warranty simply because you altered the software of an electronic device. In order to void the warranty without violating federal law, the manufacturer must prove that the modifications you made directly led to a hardware malfunction.
"They have to show that the jailbreak caused the failure. If yes, they can void your claim (not your whole warranty—just the things which flowed from your mod)," Steve Lehto, a lemon law attorney in Michigan, wrote in an email. "If not, then they can't."
Under the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act of 1975, manufacturers cannot legally void your hardware warranty simply because you altered the software of an electronic device. In order to void the warranty without violating federal law, the manufacturer must prove that the modifications you made directly led to a hardware malfunction.
"They have to show that the jailbreak caused the failure. If yes, they can void your claim (not your whole warranty—just the things which flowed from your mod)," Steve Lehto, a lemon law attorney in Michigan, wrote in an email. "If not, then they can't."
Not mentioning the name (things have changed) they ask for nothing in return for it's use and damn friendly, but a site that walks one through rooting of ones phone (through it's postings).
That's easy for manufactures to do, and they already are - knox security that blows fuses. Blown fuse==out of warranty.
You root that phone, the warranty flag gets set to no more for u status.
"Hello AT&T customer service"
"Yes I would like to enter an RMA Please.
I was in my room when suddenly my phone CAUGHT FIRE!.
I was in such a panic about it, I threw the phone down the stairs and it landed in the toilet.
Thankfully that put the fire out but I'm pretty sure that's not supposed to happen, so can you warranty this?"
It would not hurt to mention the country in the summary, even if this is a US-centric site.
The author appears to be unaware that laws are not the same in all countries.
It would be interesting to compare, as most developed countries have a warranty by law (statutory) that cannot be disclaimed.
The US has implied warranty , but that does not cover failures if it works at first??
The Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act offers the cop-out of letting companies choose a full or limited warranty. So guess what Apple does? Do many US companies offer a full warranty? So what's the point? It seems Apple/Samsung just needs to say the magic words limited warranty and do whatever the hell the want.
The issue with efuses is like welding the hood shut, so you cannot service the engine.
It forces "physical damage" to become necessary to gain the access you should have been able to get anyway. In the case of the welded hood: you have to cut through the welds. In the case of efuses protected boot loaders: the boot loader enforces strong crypto against custom kernels, preventing boot of devices without the magic number baked into them, and if you flash a new boot loader, bam, efuses blown.
When the hardware that gets damaged is little more than a "warranty void" sticker, just in digital form, the oems are stretching things pretty thin.
I would love to see them be told that they cannot do these kinds of things. Sadly, that is not how the world works today.
Same poster as parent here....
I feel I should mention that even IF you updated a phone's operating system with a tiny little "OS" that just puts the processor into a tight loop ($00000000 jmp $00000000) and the processor overheats and melts or something... EVEN THEN, the company should replace it because it was DEFECTIVE! A processor is made to "process" any set of instructions for any length of time, otherwise, it is defective.
Magnuson-Moss has been thrown around by car tuning enthusiasts since it was passed in 1975. It sounds good in theory. The reality is that you are an individual with limited resources going up against a multi-billion dollar global entity with a large team of full-time legal resources. It costs them nothing to deny your warranty claim until you win in court. How much time and money are you going to risk to get your $400 - $800 phone replaced? If you happen to be a professional Lemon Law lawyer, then I guess it's worth it to you to make a point. For the rest of us, you just buy a new phone from a different manufacturer.
They will just laugh at you - Mag-Moss who??
Here is the law in question. https://www.law.cornell.edu/us...
May be someone can point out the relevant paragraphs. I'm afraid I couldn't do it. My eyes glazed over after the first page.
I've had five Apple laptops since 2003, and all five have had problems with they keyboard. They've been playing that refuse any repairs game for over a decade.
Why would you keep doing this? Personally, after the first time, I'd have been done with any products from most companies that did this. I suppose if I really liked the product and there was more to it, I might consider giving them another shot. But you went back four more times after the first. Why?
My last PowerBook went for over a year without rebooting. Compared to my PC laptops that crash several times a month, the keyboard problems were worth the annoyance. The G key quit on my first PowerBook, but copying a G from a web page into whatever I was working on was less wasted time than I would have had with a PC laptop.
I currently have a Dell laptop for work, and it crashes about six times a week on average. It is making my life a living hell.
I never knew there was such a thing as an attorney specializing in law pertaining to lemons.
They are famous for going to bat against the all-powerful CSI:Citrus investigators...
You have the right to remain sentient. If you give up the right to remain sentient, you will be elected to public office
That's there so Hoover can't force you to buy their expensive name brand vacuum cleaner bags to maintain the warranty. It doesn't prevent a manufacturer from setting quality specifications ("use 5W-30 API SM certified oil"). It doesn't prevent a manufacturer from saying you can't do modifications. It just says they can't demand you buy stuff from them to maintain warranty. There's a big difference. Your firmware got corrupted? The manufacturer will flash it again, free, under warranty. If a car maker wants to say they won't warranty the engine if you hang fuzzy dice on the mirror, they can - as long as that's clearly spelled out in the warranty terms - they're not in violation of the MMWA. There's nothing in the MMWA which even remotely says they must prove the modification caused anything. The most obvious place where it would apply to phones is with replacement batteries, if the manufacturer didn't replace them free during the warranty.
If you break the phone (say, by blowing a security fuse while trying to load alternate firmware), it would be hard to argue that the alternate firmware wasn't the cause of the failure.
I sympathize with wanting the ability to modify phones. I've rooted mine, but run stock firmware with bloatware removed, the tethering block removed, and no other mods. Some firmware plays with processor overclocking, which can cause hardware failure. I've seen lots of forum posts where someone "bricked" their phone by modifying the bootloader/firmware, who then go on to describe acting ignorant as to how it happened and getting it replaced under warranty. That's fraud, plain and simple, so I can also sympathize with manufacturer's who don't want to pay for phones broken by users actions.
Finally, from a pragmatic perspective, they'll do what they want, it's going to end up costing much more than a new phone to even bring the issue to court. In Michigan, where the author is from, you can sue a company in small claims if you can find where they have a physical presence in the state, but they then have the right to get it moved to district court, where you'll end up needing to pay for a lawyer. Guess which of the parties has lawyers on retainer? So, in practice, if they don't want to honor the warranty for any reason, they won't.
"National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
I currently have a Dell laptop for work, and it crashes about six times a week on average. It is making my life a living hell.
My last three work laptops have been Dell Precision's. I can't say I've had any issues like you are describing. I had my previous one for three years and would have kept using it, except I needed more video RAM. My current one is a little over 4 years old now and hasn't had any issues either.
Since the ONLY phones I'll ever own are Nexus, I'm gonna be REALLY pissed if *they* start doing this... Ease of rooting/no bloatware is what made Nexus phones famous....
THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
I have a windows server 2003 box that has 4 years uptime right now. I have multiple windows 7 machines that have crossed the year threshold. It depends on the software that you run on the system, and the quality of the hardware you put it on.
For years we've seen posting by people who chose to use operating systems other than the one provided with the computer they bought. When hardware had issues, the computer vendors invariably claimed that the hardware must have failed because the customers weren't running the preloaded Windows.
Somebody's got a frowny face.
Boo! Better luck next time!
Your analysis of the statute is excellent. However, the code of federal regulations extends it a bit.
See 16 CFR 700.10 - Section 102(c).
https://www.law.cornell.edu/cf...
Quoting the Code of Federal Regulations:
--
such provisions are deceptive under section 110 of the Act, 15 U.S.C. 2310, because a warrantor cannot, as a matter of law, avoid liability under a written warranty where a defect is unrelated to the use by a consumer of âoeunauthorizedâ articles or service.
--
The phrase " warrantor cannot, as a matter of law, avoid liability ... where a defect is unrelated to the use by a consumer of âoeunauthorizedâ articles or service" may apply.
The quoted CFR text is saying why a manufacturer may not void a warranty due to repair by unauthorized service centers, or using unauthorized parts. The text itself does *not* limit the "cannot, as a matter of law" to only unauthorized parts, though, and it could well be argued that "unauthorized firmware" is an "unauthorized part" which may not void a warranty.
Actually, no they won't. Unlike most consumer protection laws, Magnuson-Moss actually has teeth. You don't HAVE to sue them in court and prevail. All you have to do is file a claim with the Federal Trade Commission, and THEY'LL do the grunt work for you. After reviewing your claim, they'll forward it to the manufacturer, who has a limited amount of time to respond and either 1) agree to cover the repair, or 2) file a rebuttal that explains the legal basis for their refusal.
As a practical matter, manufacturers almost NEVER do anything besides meekly grunt an apology at the FTC & agree to cover the repair, because challenging the FTC and losing is WAY more expensive than grudgingly eating the cost of a warranty repair they would have otherwise refused.
With Magnuson-Moss, the deck is stacked VERY heavily against manufacturers in favor of consumers. It's probably one of the best consumer protection laws ever passed, because the members of Congress who wrote the law weren't just going through the motions to appease voters... they were as personally pissed off at the automakers as the general public was, and they wanted the automakers' blood to metaphorically flood the streets of Detroit.
Sorry,
As much as I like to hate on Microsoft and the spyware that Windows 10 is there is something wrong with the hardware (bad, under-specified), your software suite or between the chair and keyboard. I honestly can't remember the last time I've seen a BSOD (it has been years) and while I don't really time sessions I easily get a week on a Win 10 notebook. On the desktop side the only freezes I really get these days are when I've been a little overzealous on an overclock ;)
I'm a bit skeptical that an Apple Store employee saw an app that wasn't from the App Store on a device that quit after only three days.
I brought in a 1st gen 3G iPad that had bent. Replaced on the spot. Brought in an iPad where some number of pixels (a line or two down the middle) stopped working. Replaced on the spot.
Ok, again depends on the brand, my old dell lattitude D610 running XP stayed up for months on end. Currently I have an hp dv7 laptop that regularly stays on for months at a time. It depends on the hardware and software.
This is the problem with theoretical thinking. In theory there is no difference between theory and practice, but in practice there is.
Sure, in theory, there is this law that says one thing. But, in practice, there are many laws, and they say conflicting things.
Steve Lehto is a lawyer and a darn good one. He blogs as a side gig and is actually a frequent poster about legal issues related to used car purchases on Jalopnik.
Yes it's an anecdote! Were you expecting original research in a Slashdot comment?
Certainly the manufacturer's attorney would present the "we provide firmware at no charge" argument that you made. And plaintiff's attorney would say it doesn't matter because CFR says "It's guaranteed (but not really)" it's *deceptive*, which is unlawful regardless.
> it offends sound reason for something which is very clearly written to be "deceptive."
Consider:
LIFETIME GUARANTEE!!!!
(fix pages of fine print) Guarantee void if unapproved apps are installed. (more pages of fine print)
I would say that's deceptive. The clause voiding the warranty is written right there in the pages and pages of fine print - and it makes the "LIFETIME GUARANTEE!" claim deceptive because many users wouldn't actually have any guarantee under those terms. There may be no fundamental difference between "unapproved apps" and "unapproved firmware".
...they will just flash your device back to the default before troubleshooting.
Problem fixed? They give it back to you, tell you they flashed to factory software, and it works. Deal.
If you hacked your Tesla and crashed it while in autopilot mode, is Tesla still liable?
Not commenting on the quality of info, just the existence thereof:
ahref=https://www.reddit.com/r/GalaxyNote3/comments/2xb7p5/solution_reset_the_knox_fuse_to_0x0_for_note_3/?st=is0j5spv&sh=2d04a482rel=url2html-5936https://www.reddit.com/r/Galax...>
https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
my lenovo goes weeks without reboots on windows 7. Only reason why I know the infrequency of the reboots is because my network password isn't cached.
Why do companies bother to offer warranties if there are all these weird nanny laws out there?
I don't want the products I'm working on to be supported in all cases (users start fooling around with server config files, etc).
What are you doing to your PC laptops that they crash so often? I can't remember the last time one of my PC laptops (personal or work) crashed. Maybe like three years ago?
Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
We buy top of the line Dell laptops, but looking through logs, they only last about 22 hours between reboots on average. Windows+laptop=unreliable crap. I know my personal Latitude E6440 only makes it about two hours between reboots running 7. With 10, it crashed nearly every half of an hour so I downgraded.
Seems to me the problem is more likely to be either a) Dell, or b) your (or your company's) setup. I've got a seven year old HP laptop that hasn't crashed in two or three years, and my Lenovo one for work hasn't crashed at all (to be fair, it's under a year old).
Examine even your most deeply held beliefs. Nobody is always right.
I have a Dell Precision M4700 that I only reboot as a result of security patches being applied. It's predecessor was a different model in the Precision line that was trouble free for many years, until the video card finally took a dump.
Dell has made some shitty business models, however. You get what you pay for.
I ran my iPod Nano through a washer-drier cycle quite a few years ago, and for some odd reason it wouldn't work afterwards. I sent it in to Apple Repair, figuring that they'd quote me a repair price and I'd decide what to do then (the iPod was from my mother and engraved with my name, so it had sentimental value), and they sent me back what was apparently a new one, with the engraving formatted differently.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
So how come I can't recover from my Motorola Moto that was hit by stagefright while connected to Verizon, while paying for Verizon service?
I'm out $600 for this LG phone.