New Intel and AMD Chips Will Only Support Windows 10 (pcworld.com)

An anonymous reader writes: Buried in the announcement of the new Kaby Lake (seventh-generation) processors and a rash of incoming notebooks set to use them is the confirmation that they will have a Windows 10 future. Microsoft has been warning people for ages that Kaby Lake will not run on anything older than Windows 10, and it looks like AMD's upcoming Zen chip will be going the same way. Microsoft said, "As new silicon generations are introduced, they will require the latest Windows platform at that time for support. This enables us to focus on deep integration between Windows and the silicon, while maintaining maximum reliability and compatibility with previous generations of platform and silicon." "We are committed to working with Microsoft and our ecosystem partners to help ensure a smooth transition given these changes to Microsoft's Windows support policy," an Intel spokesperson said. "No, Intel will not be updating Win 7/8 drivers for 7th Gen Intel Core [Kaby Lake] per Microsoft's support policy change." An AMD representative was equally neutral. "AMD's processor roadmap is fully aligned with Microsoft's software strategy," AMD chief technical officer Mark Papermaster said, via a company spokeswoman. Slashdot reader MojoKid via HotHardware has some more details on Intel's Kaby Lake 7th Gen Core Series Processors for those yearning to learn more.

Comments

Goodbye Windows.

[Berkyjay]

Hello Linux

Re:Goodbye Windows.

[Anonymous Coward]

I expect UEFI lock down will soon prevent Linux from being installed.

Re:Goodbye Windows.

[BringsApples]

Then goodbye Intel and AMD.

Re:Goodbye Windows.

[FudRucker]

Linux developers will have it cracked and running any distro within a few days, AMD & Intel is not going to shoot themselves in the foot, microsoft might commit corporate suicide

Re:Goodbye Windows.

[AchilleTalon]

Pretty much silly reasoning given the number of Linux servers around the world. Almost every large corporate is depending on Linux for something.

Re:Goodbye Windows.

[ClickOnThis]

Linux developers will have it cracked and running any distro within a few days, AMD & Intel is not going to shoot themselves in the foot, microsoft might commit corporate suicide

And I would be surprised if Intel and AMD didn't actually help Linux developers do it.

This whole thing smells of Microsoft trying to sell more Windows 10, not Intel and AMD trying to sell fewer chips.

Re:Goodbye Windows.

[drinkypoo]

I wonder why this comment is rated as insightful.

Because people found it insightful. The moderation system is not that complicated.

For a Windows 7, Windows 8 or whatever version of Windows user but 10, the alternative is not Windows 10 or Linux.

That's true. They could also become a Mac user.

If he cannot keep his old version of Windows, he will jump to Windows 10 which is much more similar to his computer experience than Linux.

It is in one significant way: software support. In any other way, it really is not.

This user is not driven by irrational hate against Microsoft and Windows since he would like to continue to use an older version of Windows.

I'm not driven by irrational hate. I'm driven by rational dislike and distrust. Windows 10 is spyware on a level that I won't permit on my network. I can (so far) keep that stuff out of my Windows 7, with some effort. I won't be buying any software which requires Windows 10, ever. So long as I can keep a machine running Windows 7, which I should be able to do with hardware on hand for the foreseeable future, I don't give a fig for Windows 10.

Re:Goodbye Windows.

[Tough Love]

Linux will probably support the chips before Windows does.

It is a practical certainty that Linux already supports Kaby Lake and that no special code is/was needed. It is also a practical certainty that Intel tested the new chips with Linux extensively, including performance testing, given how much of their business depends on Linux these days. Compilers and support libraries will need updates to take advantage of the new media and crypto instructions, no big hurry there, but indeed, Linux is likely to have these optimizations before Windows does.

linux etc

[vux984]

ok.. so... im fine in principle if intel and microsoft aren't interested in porting chipset drivers backwards for old windows versions.

I presume that this isn't creating windows 10 lock in though; and that linux / bsd / etc will be fully supported?? Or am I mistaken?

And also, is if things are that different, does it mean only a next-generation kernel version will run on them?

I'm also curious about virtualization? Can old windows versions run in virtualization on these new chips?

Re:linux etc

[Anonymous Coward]

This thing needs to be pulled apart and examined from a slightly higher level.

First of all, it is HIGHLY UNLIKELY that these chips do not support Windows 7 or 8 outright. Intel and AMD, despite their apparent lobotomy, will only shoot themselves in the foot if they start making x86 architecture backwards-incompatible. Indeed, the fact of the matter is that this is the one thing they bring to market that ensures their dominance. Additionally the processor itself is unlikely to be able to specifically lock on to Windows 7 or 8 and refuse to run because of that.

Furthermore, Windows 7 or 8 out of the box CANNOT recognize these new chipsets and CANNOT refuse to install because of them. If someone sucks down all the updates Microsoft throws at them, there may well be a Win 7 update that deliberately bricks it somewhere down the line. But if you keep updates off Windows 7 will not commit suicide on behalf of Microsoft, at least not in this manner.

What is more likely is that things like the chipset drivers are not going to be backported. Does this mean inherent incompatibility? The answer for that is unclear. It is likely, IMO, that it will run, but with degraded performance, e.g. a lot of the onboard goodies may not work. I doubt that it is so obsessed with specific drivers that everything will be disabled. For instance, I imagine USB 2.0 will work but 3.1 might not. It is also possible that there may be attempts by users to backport the drivers, which may or may not be successful. In terms of the need for a next-generation kernel, if the chipsets are so incompatible that they REQUIRE new drivers to operate, and there is no way around that, even by using legacy protocols and drivers, then yes, only a next-generation kernel will run on it. However, that strikes me as unlikely (although it's possible, at least in theory).

Now, is any of this absolutely for certain? No, not really; the only way to test that out is to actually attempt to install it.

In terms of virtualization, unless Intel has put in some kind of anti-virtualization sabotage to shoot down Windows 7 (which again would be difficult for the processor to detect), it is unlikely that it will work.

In terms of Secure Boot, that IS a problem, but it is an entirely separate problem that, in theory, applies to all recent UEFI machines. It may very well cause serious problems for Linux installations. I've heard some references to a signed version of GRUB, but I think that there is a serious danger of Microsoft cooking up ridiculous reasons for refusing to sign binaries for anything they dislike. Additionally I recall hearing on at least one occasion about needing everything in the boot loader's chain to be signed (e.g. drivers). I do not know how they would manage that once the kernel is running, but if that is the case then that is a significant problem, and any machine which Secure Boot cannot be disabled on is as such essentially Microsoft-owned hardware.

Ultimately what this boils down to is part sabotage and part FUD with Intel and AMD being willing co-conspirators with Microsoft, and essentially participating in collusion. I'm not sure why Intel and AMD are so loyal to Microsoft, though; Microsoft has demonstrated it has no loyalty to x86, and has done so repeatedly over the years (see: Windows Phone, Windows NT for Alpha, etc.).

Re:linux etc

[Gavagai80]

Political correctness is the being polite and considerate to others of today. But don't worry, liberals like the ACLU will continue to fight for your right to be offensive. The only thing we don't do is pretend you're not offensive.

Collusion is illegal

[HBI]

I wonder if they are tracking this. I think they need to be reminded of this - all three of them.

Re:Collusion is illegal

[rahvin112]

It's not collusion, they've been doing that for years, this is planned obsolescence. People aren't buying new hardware because they don't need it. Newer processors aren't any faster overall and haven't been for years now. You have to go back almost 5 generations to get a significant difference between mainstream Intel CPU's (single thread performance) that would be enough to justify buying a new processor. The focus on power efficiency has essentially stalled all growth in processor power.

So they are doing what they can, you want new hardware you need a new OS. They think it's a win win for both of them, though i think it will delay the upgrade cycle even more and will end up hurting them.

Re:Collusion is illegal

[Khyber]

There is zero reason for Windows 7 to not work with the processor. Otherwise, you might as well NOT call it x86.

Re:Collusion is illegal

[Truekaiser]

The article is misleading. It is not that the chips won't work with the older os's. It is that only windows 10 compared to previous versions will support their newer features. Stuff like enhanced speed stepping and powering down cores when not in use.

Re:Collusion is illegal

[mysidia]

So it's collusion when an auto manufacturer stops selling older model cars?

No.... It's collusion when the Auto manufacturer makes an agreement with the Auto shops to stop carrying the
proper replacement parts that fit your older cars.

Or it's collusion, when diskette manufacturer X comes out with a new diskette size and makes a deal with laptop manufacturers to stop supporting the older diskette size on their laptops, only the new one.

Re:Collusion is illegal

[sexconker]

Windows 7 is not EOL. It's in the extended support (security and major bug patches only) stage.
Further, drivers for Windows 7 and Windows 10 are basically the same. This is nothing like the difference between writing drivers for Windows XP and writing drivers for Windows Vista.

Re:In time

[110010001000]

This is unexpectedly insightful. This is the way the corporations want it to be: only "approved" devices connected to the Internet will be legal.

Re:In time

[BlueStrat]

It will be illegal to run any other version than Windows 10.

In time it will be illegal to possess a general-purpose computer.

Strat

Forced Obsolecence

[darkwyrm76]

If it weren't for dirty tricks like this, users would treat Windows 7 like XP... M$ would need to pry it from their cold, dead hands.

CPU & OS Backdoored For Your Pleasure

[zenlessyank]

Soon all our machines will be totally infected with spyware sponsored by our own tax dollars.

Re:In time

[BringsApples]

...and a wired connection of any type.

"Will Only Support Windows 10"

[swell]

The headline is crystal clear. Linux, Mac, Win 7-- fuggedaboudit.

Or is this another Slashdot clickbait? Ah, they are off the hook because they copied the clickbait at PCWorld. At least PCWorld had the decency to add this statement "But a change in Microsoftâ(TM)s support policy means that it will be only be officially supported by Windows 10." which seems to soften the misleading headline.

As most here agree, ways will be found to deploy these chips in a useful direction despite the monopolistic desires of Microsoft.

Re:Sounds like Android ...

[Berkyjay]

Intel chips still support Windows XP. Funny how all of a sudden Windows 7 will be such a pain to support for future architecture.

Orwellian much?

[Joska]

Intel and AMD are so committed to a good and trustworthy experience for their customers that they are only accommodating installation of the perpetual beta, that data mining sensation, Windows 10? This constitutes a big bet that nearly all of their customers are completely ignorant or utter fools, with the remainder being an insignificant minority that can safely be ignored.

After 20 years of Windows, I'm finally in the process of switching to Linux. I can clearly tolerate a somewhat rubbish OS for a long time but when it's essentially a sinister joke and a toy rather than a serious tool, even a procrastinator like me is motivated to make a change. Of course much of the Win 10 evil has been back ported to Win 7 and 8 but could in theory be avoided. After a while though, one tires of the cat and mouse game of choosing which updates to avoid and now how to get around the update rollups. This business with chip support is just the most recent slap in the face from an increasingly cynical and adversarial Microsoft who is apparently the driving force in this present fiasco.

KDE Neon, for example, is way faster on an old laptop than Windows on a recent Xeon workstation, so this no painful switch. Thus ends the promise of Longhorn, at least for me.

Re:Finally we will get high end computers

[Joska]

Right. It's high school debating tactics and not a reasoned analysis when you simply ignore or gloss over any inconvenient truths and push your conclusion or more precisely, belief or claim, with everything you've got. So tiresome. If anyone can be bothered to refute any of your claims point by point, I'll leave it to them.

Re:Linux supported by UEFI

[Anonymous Coward]

Only until Microsoft changes its signing certificate.

Then they won't work anymore. Just like it didn't work for Windows RT devices.

Re: Hello Wine

[cfalcon]

> Find an open source equiv app

Some times there isn't one. Games are the biggest deal for this.

No problem

[Trogre]

Just add these to the growing list of hardware that is Linux only.

It's usually older gear such as PCI cards or scanners that makes the list, so it's nice to have some newer CPUs on our side too.