Slashdot Mirror
North Korea Conducts Fifth Nuclear Test -- The Largest One Yet (cnn.com)
TMB writes: As reported by CNN, North Korea has conducted its 5th nuclear test, the largest yet at 10 kilotons.
Before the test was reported, Slashdot reader hcs_$reboot reported: A magnitude 5.3 earthquake has been detected in North Korea, amid reports the country had been preparing for its fifth nuclear test. South Korea's Yonhap news agency said it had been an "artificial quake." The U.S. Geological Survey said the tremor had been detected in the north-east of North Korea, close to a known nuclear test site. The earthquake occurred close to the surface, the USGS said. The shallow depth and precise timing of the quake suggests it was man-made. North Korea says it has tested a nuclear warhead and that the test showed the warhead "has been standardized to be able to be mounted on strategic ballistic rockets."
North Korea says it has tested a nuclear warhead and that the test showed the warhead "has been standardized to be able to be mounted on strategic ballistic rockets."
This can't have happened, Bill Clinton signed an agreement with North Korea.
Can we assume that one day North Korea will attack something? I've always thought that they're just posturing, but this most recent "test" makes me hesitate...
I am much less worried about them than Muslim countries with the bomb. North Korean rulers are ruthless and power hungry but rational to the degree that they don't want to be wiped out in a counter-strike. Many Muslims would see a counter-strike as an advantage, with millions of people becoming martyrs and getting their millions * 27 virgins.
Can we assume that one day North Korea will attack something? I've always thought that they're just posturing, but this most recent "test" makes me hesitate...
You mean attack something again? There was the North Korean invasion of South Korea back in the 1950s, before a prepared US military and a prepared South Korean military were sitting on the border.
All they need to do is put it on a missile, then they can wipe out the US
Not yet. NK is still stoppable. This is probably why nobody is doing anything.
Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
Nah, this sorta thing is pretty much SOP for NK, they'll be all like "Raaaah look at us we are like SUPER dangerous! Give us oil and food or we use our spooky new powers!"
Then we give them oil and food and they step back down, when that stuff runs out - they go "Raaaaaah!" again.
They've done it before.
Besides there's a long way from a functional nuclear device to a missile deliverable one.
Admit nothing. Deny Everything. Make Counter-accusations.
Umm...it's not quite so simple as that. Before the Korean war there was no concrete North Korea and South Korea. Neither government recognized the border or each other. Poor old Korea split up due to the meddling of the super powers.
Actually it is quite simple. In 1950 and today North Korea does not recognize the legitimacy of the South Korean government and considers reunification by force to be a legitimate option. There is no peace treaty ending the Korean War, just a Cease Fire. North Korea has occasionally conducted raids into South Korea and killed South Korean over the decades of this Cease Fire.
Its a bit more complicated than that - the partition of Korea only happened in 1948, two years before the Korean War started, and *both* sides were making aggressive noises and movements toward the other, it was simply the North that first moved en mass south of the border to reunite the country. The South at that point was still building its military in preparation for its own invasion of the North, as well as disenfranchising a huge number of its own citizens who were communist or didn't support the US-and-UN imposed elections.
By the start of the Korean War in 1950, the South had imprisoned 30,000 communists, and had interred 300,000 more in "reeducation camps". They had also killed more than 60,000 of their own citizens in various quellings of uprisings by disowned groups. The North were doing their own similar thing, sure, but I concentrate on the South here because they are always the side which gets white washed when it comes to the Korean War. After all, you hardly ever hear that, in the early days of the war, the southern president, Syngmam Rhee, ordered the executions of between 100,000 and 200,000 of his political opponents in the Bodo League massacre.
The North today may be run by nut jobs, but do not mistake the cause of the Korean War as solely the Norths fault, nor on the same level as todays North Korea...
Can we assume that one day North Korea will attack something? I've always thought that they're just posturing, but this most recent "test" makes me hesitate...
North Korea is the buffer between China and the US forces, a North Korean attack would lead to the regime's fall and probably a reunification into a strong pro-western country which I'm sure China doesn't want. Despite all the saber rattling I'm fairly sure Kim wouldn't try pulling it off alone. In fact, I think China would tell him that in case of a unilateral attack they'd roll in and occupy North Korea themselves before US-led forces could do it. Even if 99,99% of the population is ignorant some must know the real state of the country and its technology, this is not Nazi Germany. This is a backwater podunk with a not-so-unwarranted paranoia after being named in the "axis of evil" and the invasion of Iraq. Fuck what everyone else thinks, it's better to have the arms to defend yourself and act like you could use them. He'd be right at home in the US, in another life.
Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
It is in the Quran, but it is not clear how to interpret it. 72 may be the actual number, or just 'a very large number'. Furthermore it is not clear if you get virgins or 'grapes'. Obviously you will not get 72 grapes, but this likely means that you will get 'infinite food'. This is actually likely, as in the times it was written hunger was an even bigger problem compared to today.
Not inevitable, but not impossible either, I think. The NK perspective/official party line is that they are under permanent threat and need to be able to defend themselves against SK, the US, and, through heinous manipulations, most of the rest of the world. That's a pretty paranoid perspective, and while it's defensive by nature, this can go wrong in many ways. The country is lead by a small, corrupt, misinformed elite, has a huge and soon nuclear-equipped army and, outside the capital, a poor and suppressed population. An internal crisis, or a diplomatic fuck-up, both seem realistic possibilities.
"Money is a sign of poverty." - Iain Banks
You ignore the fact that the South is well documented as being as aggressive toward the North over the border prior to the invasion, and indeed again it is well documented that it was the South which started many of the skirmishes and exchanges of gun fire that blighted that period. Syngman Rhee is on record that he wanted to conquer the North by any means necessary.
And no, concentrating on one side while *explicitly* saying that is what I am doing does not in any way diminish the acts of the other side - especially when the point is to dispel the very polarised image that people have of the North and South during the Korean War. Trying to say otherwise is merely an ad hominem attack rather than engaging in the discussion.
At that point in time, the South were every much the bit as brutal as the North - hundreds of thousands forced into reeducation camps, hundreds of thousands executed, tens of thousands killed in up risings etc etc etc.
But it would seem that people like you don't like that side of history being brought up - to people like you, the South is completely innocent, and *that* is quite disturbing because it means you arent willing to look at the history of the region in a dispassionate or detached manner...
Shia? Sunni? You give them too much credit if you ask me.
If you do a poll, my guess is that the result would be that Shia is some comedian, Sunni is what California is, and over there in that Arab desert is one big homogeneous mass of brown skinned towelheads that wanna kill the American way of life.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
The Saudi's already have nuclear weapons - who do you think paid for the Pakistani program ? It just happens that they are stored in Pakistan arsenals. If things went tits-up and the Saudi's [specifically the Royal Family and Government] found themselves on the wrong end of a Nuclear-armed Iran those weapons would quickly be moved to Saudi territory. Note the Saudi's bete-noire isn't, and never has been, Israel. [The Saudi Government considers Israel a convenient whipping boy but that's just to keep the punters in the Mosque and Souk happy. In reality they know that tangling with Israel would be a very, very bad idea and anyway they both have the same enemies]. The threat comes from Shia-dominated Iran whose population and ruling Theocracy are very, very unhappy with the way the Saudi's treat their own Shia minority in the East. Iran is not, and never has been an Arab country.
The OP pointed directly to the 1950 invasion as their point, so that is what I talk about - and if you read my comments in full, you would note that I accept that NK today is run by nut jobs, but that doesn't change the situation back then.
Its also worth noting that South Korea never signed the 1953 Armistice Agreement which resulted in the "permanent" partition of Korea into the North and South - it was signed by the UN and the North, but not the South. Odd that...
Meanwhile, the South hasn't exactly seen a great 75 years itself - coups, assassinations, martial law, political murders, torture of dissidents, dictatorships etc etc
I'm pretty sure the senior military are quite happy with the current situation, and should the leader of North Korea seek to alter that wholesale by resuming military activity in any serious way against the South, I have no doubt that there would be a quick and sudden illness and subsequent replacement of their supreme commander...
While the North does have a huge army, its main value (note I said "value", not "intention") is in its defensive ability - its artillery, bunkers, sheer weight of numbers etc. By and large, the NK military is still stuck in the 1960s, and would be decimated should it choose to cross the DMZ - it lacks serious armour, air support and mobility, and the NK supply chain is pathetic.
The nuclear option adds a certain ... flavour to the mix, but NK only have a few bombs, and those are questionable. Seoul may get nuked, it may not - for any chance of a nuke hitting Seoul, it would need to be either mounted on a rocket, or fired as an artillery shell, and both of those options require some serious technical ability which the NK's lack. Airborne delivery is out of the question, as any NK aircraft wouldnt get far into the South before being shot down. Hand delivery is a distinct possibility, but nuking Seoul doesn't win the North the war, and it would have no effect on the US troops in the South.
Hey, if we don't require the virgins to be straight it gets a lot easier to reach the quota.
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
He's right. Early Arabic is a wonderfully ambiguous language; something that is a valuable asset to any religious text.
If construction was anything like programming, an incorrectly fitted lock would bring down the entire building...
Why? You fail to provide an argument - it sounds like you simply don't want to agree that I have a point, and thus need to look for any excuse in order to discount said point.
You do realise what "white washing" refers to, right?
Ive been to sk. Its nice and darn nicer than nk
Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
Virgins? I'd rather have 72 slutty girls who knew what they were doing.
If we had any leadership in the White House we would implement a regime change in North Korea.
Exactly who is itching for a fight here? It's not that the NK leadership is exactly peace-loving, but can we blame them for being somewhat suspicious about the US' intentions if this is an accepted way of thinking about foreign policy there?
But countries like North Korea with unstable leaders need to be silenced as well.
'Unstable leaders' ... and this is coming from a country where Donald J. Trump could be chosen as the next president?
"Money is a sign of poverty." - Iain Banks
You are absolutely correct. The history of nuclear weapons is that one country getting them, means other countries get them:
The US bomb begat the Soviet bomb.
The Soviet bomb begat the Chinese bomb, the English bomb, and the French bomb.
The Chinese bomb begat the Pakistani bomb.
the Pakistani bomb begat the Indian bomb.
In recent years, the US conventional war machine and dubiously-justified invasions begat the North Korean bomb, and progress on the Iranian bomb.
The one exception to all this seems to be South Africa, who had a nuclear weapons program and then voluntarily gave it up after Apartheid ended.
Slashdot still doesnâ(TM)t support Unicode after it was added to the HTML standard in 1997.
27 virgins could be correct. If millions of martyrs turn up at once, it's bound to affect the market rate....supply & demand, and all that
Mainly because it ignores that the only reason North Korea exists is that a local, unpopular Communist sympathizer named Kim Il-Sung was set up as a puppet ruler in the North in the wake of Stalin's invasion of Northern China. Stalin had negotiated a withdrawal from Manchuria with Chiang prior to the August 1945 invasion. No such agreement applied to Korea, and Stalin chose to keep it as a buffer state under a compliant puppet ruler.
Self-determination for Koreans was non-existent in the North. Complain and die.
You sound like a Communist yourself.
HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
Agreed. Between Stuxnet and assassinating scientists of the backs of mopeds, short of military action we've been as aggressive as we can.
Millions long for immortality who do not know what to do with themselves on a rainy Sunday afternoon. -- Susan Ertz
You're right, people in that part of the world are all so unforgivably stupid for thinking that people in some other part of the world are all so unforgivably stupid. It's certainly not you who is unforgivably stupid.
Virgins? I'd rather have 72 slutty girls who knew what they were doing.
Heard more than one comedian, some of them Muslim, make that joke. A more creative one was "72 virgins? I hope not. I don't want 72 phone calls about 'So, where is this going?' and having to meet 114 parents."
Japanese news is reporting that analyst think NK has the ability to accurately target short range missiles now. They can't get as far as Japan, but South Korea can be hit with precision, they say, as well as shipping off the NK coast.
I don't know how accurate those claims are, but thought they were worth mentioning.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
With North Korea's nascent industrial capacity, I'm oddly of the opinion that he should test until he's out of bombs and should test missiles until he runs out of missiles.
Fire the gun into the ground until the clips empty...
Yes Francis, the world has gone crazy.
but I concentrate on the South here because they are always the side which gets white washed when it comes to the Korean War
[...]
The North today may be run by nut jobs, but do not mistake the cause of the Korean War as solely the Norths fault, nor on the same level as todays North Korea...
Nor should you. Despite your attempts at some sort of reverse whitewashing, it remains that North Korea started the war and would have finished it with a brutal tyranny over the entire Korean peninsula, if it weren't for the direct intervention of a superpower. It wasn't solely North Korea's fault. They had considerable help from the USSR and China.
But to cast blame on South Korea because they did evil things that were irrelevant to North Korea's interests? Well, I guess they showed weakness by not invading first with a superior force, so sure, let's blame the South Koreans too.
You should begin that with: The Nazi bomb (threat) begat the US bomb. They were working on one, then put it aside because you cant occupy countries that you've turned into glass, and the Nazis were all about conquest. But Szilard (via Einstein) warned Roosevelt that, once the basic science was known, any of a number of players could develop the actual bomb, and that we should have it first.
Downmodding is the refuge of the weak. Don't downmod, make a better argument!
Now. Till the 1970ies it was the other way around. Back then North Korea has been actually less authoritarian than South Korea, as funny as it may sound nowdays.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
Freeze them first- and work quickly.
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
You ignore the fact that the South is well documented as being as aggressive toward the North over the border prior to the invasion, and indeed again it is well documented that it was the South which started many of the skirmishes and exchanges of gun fire that blighted that period.
While the South may have made futile impotent symbolic gestures the North planned and prepared and executed a full scale invasion.
At that point in time, the South were every much the bit as brutal as the North
The political oppression and political indoctrination and violence of the South pales in comparison to the North.
But it would seem that people like you don't like that side of history being brought up
Untrue, I just don't believe in logical fallacy of false equivalency.
No denying that the South was very nasty from the 1950s through the early 1982s, from Rhee to Park to Chun. Purges, massacres, and even a nuclear weapons program. However, trying to draw too many parallels doesn't work either because the patron states behind both regimes had very different approaches. Given Rhee's unsavoriness, fear of a Southern led invasion triggering global war, and the broader political instability in the late 1940s, the United States never really bothered to equip the ROK with the heavy weapons needed to wage an offensive campaign. At the start of the Korean War, their forces were pretty much a glorified gendarmerie, and the United States held the leash tightly to prevent a war. The Soviets on the other hand, had no restraints and fully equipped the North Koreans with the latest heavy weapons and green lighted an invasion.
Even as you go through the Cold War, the United States played a very careful balancing act, trying to prop up the South while actively constraining them from launching a reunification campaign (that could spiral into WWIII) and actively squashed any efforts by the South to become a nuclear state. The North has always been much more openly aggressive, maintaining a forward positioned posture and threatening invasion at every turn.
There's also still no overlooking that the South has evolved into a relatively liberal, democratic society that is a responsible global player. Whereas the North is still very much an old school totalitarian dictatorship which continues to flout international norms.
72 virgins is a good investment.
The afterlife is long, and these 72 virgins will probably get a lot of experience along the way. And while you can turn a virgin into a slutty girl, the opposite is impossible.
If, for some reason, you really can't stand virgins, you also get 8000 servants in the package, so you can pick a few of your virgins and send them for training.
I concentrate on the South here because they are always the side which gets white washed when it comes to the Korean War.
I noticed that last night. When reading about this nuclear test I noticed that the article was referring to the South Korean president as Ms. Park, so I looked her up ( I didn't realize they had a female president). She's the first female president, and the daughter of Park Chung-Hee, who led a military coup against the government and is described as a strongman dictator who led the Third Republic of South Korea after the coup, then in 1972 he declared martial law and made the constitution much more authoritarian (which led to the Fourth Republic of South Korea), before being assassinated by the chief of his own security services in 1979. That eventually led to the Fifth Republic of South Korea, which lasted until 1987 and now they are the Sixth Republic of South Korea. His daughter Park Geun-Hye is the sixth president of the sixth republic (11th president overall, and the 18th presidential term). So yeah, it's definitely a bit complicated.
"Our two-party system is like a bowl of shit looking at itself in a mirror." - Lewis Black
...well...yes, its called an election in the free world. Any nutjob can run....it doesn't mean they get elected. I distinctly remember some guy locked up in jail trying to run for decades. For better or worse you get what the majority vote in and the "people" are responsible for that.
That's part of the beauty of the election process, and it sure beats being stuck with the same ass nugget for life, Amiright Comrade?
By the way, what happens if he losses, are we back to Bush being the strawman?
Yet, they have no qualms about converting and claiming more than a billion people who neither know, nor speak any Arabic (let alone the medieval Arabic in which the Quran was written). People of the East Indies, the Indian subcontinent, Central Asia (including Iran), Turkey and the Caucuses do not know or speak Arabic, even if some languages may have freely borrowed & lent words
South African here, we actually dismantled our nuclear weapons program well before apartheid ended in 1994, it was only announced then once the international inspectors were allowed in. I think the end of the program started in 1988 and took two years to complete.
Officially it was ended to build peace and stability in the region after the end of the Angolan war, but there are whispers in the air that it was done to prevent the ANC from getting their hands on WMDs and possibly selling them on to the highest bidder.
Trying to become famous by taking photos. Visit my homepage please.
Actually, no. What they want is purity - that the girl's you-know-what be touched by them and them alone. Which would be one thing if they were as pure as the girls they want, but rank hypocrisy if they themselves had been gigolos, but wanted virgins here.