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10 Percent of the World's Wilderness Has Been Lost Since 1990s (livescience.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Live Science: Wilderness areas around the world have experienced catastrophic declines over the last two decades, with one-tenth of global wilderness lost since the 1990s, according to a new study. Since 1993, researchers found that a cumulative wilderness area twice the size of Alaska and half the size of the Amazon has been stripped and destroyed. The shrinking wilderness is due, in part, to human activity such as mining, logging, agriculture, and oil and gas exploration. The researchers said their findings underscore the need for international policies to recognize the value of wilderness and to protect wilderness areas from the threats they face. Central Africa and the Amazon saw the most wilderness decline, the researchers found. Of the roughly 1.27 million square miles (3.3 million square kilometers) of global wilderness lost, the Amazon accounted for nearly one-third, and 14 percent of the world's wilderness was lost from Central Africa, according to the study. The researchers determined that only 11.6 million square miles (30.1 million square km) of wilderness is left, which equates to just 20 percent of the Earth's total land mass. The study was published online in the journal Current Biology.

150 comments

  1. Whatever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Can't do anything about it even if I wanted to. That's the future's problem, not mine.

    1. Re:Whatever by greenfruitsalad · · Score: 2, Funny

      i consider sahara to be 'wilderness' and it is expanding. in a few decades, the whole of central africa will be 'wilderness'. so as far as statistics go, we'll be fine.

    2. Re:Whatever by jblues · · Score: 2

      Yeah, sure we're losing wilderness. If you completely discount the fact that the way we measure wilderness was different ten years ago. The thing about all your global wilderness loss conspiracists - if there wasn't so much money in preservation you wouldn't be doing it.

      --
      If it acquires resources on instantiation like a duck, then its a shared_ptr<Duck>
    3. Re:Whatever by guises · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Well of course you could do something about it, virtually all of the driving force behind this is either economic or due to the expanding population... but it would require something from you. It would be more expensive and less convenient than doing nothing, and it would not entail solving the problem by yourself. It would mean contributing to the solution in a small way for which you wouldn't receive any praise or gratitude, and for which some people would dismiss and insult you.

      Maybe the parent was intended as sarcasm, but this is one of those cases where it's hard to tell.

    4. Re:Whatever by Gavagai80 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      How can you possibly believe we're not losing wilderness when population and resource use have expanded considerably over that time period? The only debate should be how much.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    5. Re:Whatever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      In with-in the next several hundred million years the oceans will start to boil away because the sun is getting hotter, so like, whats the problem here? We're living in the earths twilight years, human activity might be slightly accelerating its demise ? Maybe this is the natural end game for most planets like ours? Human like things evolve and disrupt everything. People need to let go of this idea that its current state must be perfectly preserved for eternity.

    6. Re:Whatever by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      People have been moving to cities at the same time. So the wilderness areas are being depopulated.

    7. Re:Whatever by jblues · · Score: 1

      Just kidding. I thought it would be amusing to apply the same kinds of spin that turns up around global warming. I'm really worried. In my part of the world, so much of the Borneo rain forests are being replaced with palm plantations, for making palm oil, which is a very versatile and profitable - in the short-term, while the environment suffers - commodity. There's so much collateral damage here, most notably the Orangutans who (I say who because these animals clearly have personality) have become extremely threatened.

      --
      If it acquires resources on instantiation like a duck, then its a shared_ptr<Duck>
    8. Re:Whatever by Mr0bvious · · Score: 1

      Did the article say wilderness is being lost to habitation?

      I'd assume a significant proportion of wilderness loss is for agriculture, mining, clearing (for resources, wood, etc) .

      I'm not sure habitation has much to do with it at all. Fill a city with another 2M people and you're going to need to clear wilderness to farm food for said people.

      --
      Never happened. True story.
    9. Re:Whatever by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Get a keyboard that's capable of capital letters, because your current one is making you look like an idiot.

  2. What's "wilderness?" by msauve · · Score: 1

    "Wilderness," what's that? Wild? In some cities, wilderness is increasing. Untouched by humans? Then we wouldn't know about it, would we?

    It takes 10 paragraphs to find that the author's "wilderness" is an area which man doesn't habitat. Why not just write about population growth, and figure out by what factor Malthus was off?

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
    1. Re: What's "wilderness?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ocean is wilderness. We need more ocean.

    2. Re: What's "wilderness?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We're working on it with global warming.

    3. Re:What's "wilderness?" by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      In some cities, wilderness is increasing.

      I once saw a racoon and 3 cubs walking down Market St in San Francisco. I once saw a coyote on the Embarcadero. There is a family of possums living in the shed in my backyard.

    4. Re:What's "wilderness?" by Mal-2 · · Score: 1

      Wild peacocks roam the streets of Palos Verdes and San Pedro. That doesn't make it a wilderness. The abandoned military housing is probably somewhat closer to a wilderness, in the sense that any animals living there do so more or less free from human interference. The bad news is that we're losing this as hungry and/or greedy humans (it makes no difference as far as the wildlife is concerned) decide they need the space. The good news is that if we leave it alone, nature eventually claws it back. It's just unlikely to happen with the number of people on the planet still increasing.

      --
      How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.
    5. Re:What's "wilderness?" by PopeRatzo · · Score: 4, Funny

      I once saw a racoon and 3 cubs walking down Market St in San Francisco. I once saw a coyote on the Embarcadero. There is a family of possums living in the shed in my backyard.

      Do you know what "wilderness" means?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
    6. Re:What's "wilderness?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's because we are INVADING space that was once not ours. It is nothing but a human expansion which does not think that the forest is for the trees.

    7. Re:What's "wilderness?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nature will combat your "equilibrium"

    8. Re:What's "wilderness?" by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      That's because we are INVADING space that was once not ours.

      The animals are also invading. Prior to the 20th century, coyotes did not live east of the Mississippi River. Today, they are common from New England to Florida. It is estimated that hundreds live in New York City, subsisting on garbage and rats. Other animals, from raccoons to peregrine falcons, have also adapted to urban living.

    9. Re: What's "wilderness?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Informative

      Most of the universe is wilderness, uninfected by that parasite Life.

    10. Re:What's "wilderness?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      A handful of animals is not the same as biodiversity.

    11. Re:What's "wilderness?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Not to mention all of the cows, horses, sheep and other live stock living in the new world which are not native to here.

      Hell, look at a place thought out the US where the wild Chinese Ring Necked Pheasant is thriving en mass, damn a shame they were brought here.

    12. Re:What's "wilderness?" by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      I once saw a racoon and 3 cubs walking down Market St in San Francisco. I once saw a coyote on the Embarcadero. There is a family of possums living in the shed in my backyard.

      Do you know what "wilderness" means?

      For some folks, seeing a bear in a zoo makes for a trip to the wilderness. Speaking of which, in my neighborhood, we regularly have bears wandering around. A little unnerving at first, but they just use the roads for the same reason we do. gotta get to work.

      In my backyard, I've seen bear, deer, possum, skunk, raccoons, hawks ( a Cooper's Hawk seems to really like my wife) ravens, plieated woodpeckers - the "Oh my Gawd" bird - and the obligatory squirrels and chippers, and a number of bullfrogs, who actually eat chipmunks.

      Bill probably thinks I live on the Alaskan Wildlife refuge instead of a suburb in PA.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    13. Re:What's "wilderness?" by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2

      The animals are also invading. Prior to the 20th century, coyotes did not live east of the Mississippi River. Today, they are common from New England to Florida. It is estimated that hundreds live in New York City, subsisting on garbage and rats. Other animals, from raccoons to peregrine falcons, have also adapted to urban living.

      This is simplifying the hell out of the issue. About 12 years ago, about a square mile of land was cleared for a big shopping center about a mile from me. We're talking remove every tree, and vegetation, and turn that acreage into something that looked like the surface of Mars.

      That summer, the population of all the animals in my backyard exploded. When evicted, the animals don't just die off right away, they migrate, fight with the animals where they try to establish themselves, and a lot starve to death.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    14. Re:What's "wilderness?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Im in the middle of Dallas/Ft. Worth and I see Wild hogs, coyotes, fox, squirrel, Raccoons, possums, etc. All the time. It's not strange to see wild animals adapting to live with us in the City.

    15. Re:What's "wilderness?" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In my town, I think Martin Luther King Boulevard counts as wilderness. Now that I think about it more, the same could be said of most towns with a MLK Blvd...

    16. Re: What's "wilderness?" by hucker75 · · Score: 0

      Except that doesn't exist.

  3. OMG! by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 0

    http://www.businessinsider.com...

    Older link but relevant.

    if you look at how big the rainforest is in south america and think "10 %" you sorta have to wonder about the modeling to get to that number.

    --
    _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    1. Re: OMG! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They use satellites, by-and-large, plus checks to determine whether sample areas that are tagged as a particular class of area match up. It's used for a lot of crop management work too. There is a huge library of decent quality images at various frequency spectra dating back to the early 1990s allowing reinterpretation with increasingly sophisticated image analysis techniques.

  4. Seems by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As though we haven't fully committed to fucking this planet up yet. Still got another 90% get to it!

  5. Not running out of wilderness... by kenh · · Score: 2, Insightful

    What's your point? That after 20 years of sustained growth and expansion the people that live on the edges of vast swaths of wilderness (Central Africa, The Amazon) are slowly eroding that wilderness?

    What are they supposed to do, live in poverty, stop growing their civilizations on the edges of, say, the Amazon, because all the developed nations used up their wilderness growing their countries? We got ours, now you need to stop?

    I suspect there is still plenty of wilderness - for example, The United States government owns 47 percent of all land in the West. (That's about 1/4th of our country that is, essentially, wilderness.)

    --
    Ken
    1. Re:Not running out of wilderness... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      as a species - we have to stop multiplying and cut down our numbers to a sustainable number of people,yes.

    2. Re:Not running out of wilderness... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      as a species - we have to stop saying as a species.

    3. Re:Not running out of wilderness... by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 1

      as a species - we have to stop multiplying and cut down our numbers to a sustainable number of people,yes.

      It's already happening in first world countries. As soon as third world countries catch up with living standards, urbanization, and education of women, the same thing will happen with them as well. The world's population is probably going to peak out at around 10 or 11 billion or so at the end of this century, and then level off or decline from there to a perhaps 9 billion or so.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    4. Re:Not running out of wilderness... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Way to counter your 2nd sentence with your 3rd.

    5. Re: Not running out of wilderness... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We need to be invading countries with platoons of teachers, all under heavy military guard!

    6. Re:Not running out of wilderness... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      FUCK YOUR APOLOGISM

    7. Re:Not running out of wilderness... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      > What are they supposed to do, live in poverty, stop growing their civilizations on the edges of, say, the Amazon, because all the developed nations used up their wilderness growing their countries? We got ours, now you need to stop?

      Actually we should nuke all their major cities and let nature reclaim them.

    8. Re:Not running out of wilderness... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Add the summary points out, much of it is logging, mining, oil and gas. Destructive and avoidable processes.

      It's calling for the more developed nations to help use other technologies instead. Obviously some of it is unavoidable, like agriculture, but even that can be done the responsible way or the cheap way.

      Since the developed nations need wilderness to exist to avoid other problems like climate change, there is a case for helping.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    9. Re:Not running out of wilderness... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I prefer neutron bombs. Less lingering radioactivity.
      Did you catch some TV shows a few years ago, something along the lines of "If there were no humans." The premise was all humans magically are gone. It explains how cities fall apart and decay with people to keep things like working, fixing broken windows, the return of streams and rivers to cities in place of "flood control channels," etc.

      Domestic / domesticated animals are the big losers.

    10. Re:Not running out of wilderness... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      What are they supposed to do, live in poverty, stop growing their civilizations on the edges of, say, the Amazon, because all the developed nations used up their wilderness growing their countries?

      Yes. Yes they are. If they don't, we'll all die, or at least all of our societies will be destroyed. They must be stopped by force if necessary. Of course, by the same token, the burners of fossil fuels must also be stopped by force if necessary.

      I suspect there is still plenty of wilderness - for example, The United States government owns 47 percent of all land in the West. (That's about 1/4th of our country that is, essentially, wilderness.)

      The problem with your idea is that literally none of the BLM land which is not desert is untouched wilderness. It's all been logged, and it's still used for logging and for cattle grazing. You can only really count the desert part (about half) as wilderness and when people are talking about wilderness, they're not just talking about deserts. The truth is that there is virtually no wild land still left in the world, and even that has been drastically influenced by human activity.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:Not running out of wilderness... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well maybe it will or maybe it will not. Assuming it will - resources are after all limited - the way the growth of population will stop is important for those of us who will have to tolerate the hordes from the south in their cities. You say it like it will be a soft process. I do not see that in NA at the moment. The fact is that demographic pressure in NA but generally in MENA countries cause many to cross the sea on dinghies and fuck white women of the north. There is nothing wrong with that of course unless some of them are forced. There has hardly been population decline in a history that was not caused or accompanied by slaughter.

    12. Re: Not running out of wilderness... by KenHansen · · Score: 1

      Since the developed nations need wilderness to exist to avoid other problems like climate change, there is a case for helping.

      By 'helping' you mean retard their progress?

    13. Re: Not running out of wilderness... by KenHansen · · Score: 1

      The problem with your idea is that literally none of the BLM land which is not desert is untouched wilderness. It's all been logged, and it's still used for logging and for cattle grazing.

      Logging is sustainable, cattle grazing is too. 47% of all land in the west is not being drilled, mined, etc - take a good look at the land the federal government has in Utah, some of it is a datacenter, most of it is untouched wilderness.

    14. Re: Not running out of wilderness... by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Logging is sustainable, cattle grazing is too

      [citation needed]

      We've depleted forest biomass, so (among other reasons) CO2 isn't being fixed sufficiently fast for us to have a bright future. Young trees fix less carbon than old trees. Cattle land fixes none and emits a bunch of methane.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    15. Re:Not running out of wilderness... by dywolf · · Score: 1

      sorry, it's not essentially wilderness.its more wild than the burbs, but much of it very much still marked by humanity. Yosemite as a whole isn't wilderness. Neither is Yellowstone. though both have areas designated as such, and are access points to designated wilderness areas. that's why actual wilderness areas are specifically marked out and left as pristine as possible.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  6. Re:bad guys by kenh · · Score: 1

    The communist governments of the west depend on immigration to make their losing communist economies appear to grow.

    Right, that's why Communist Governments encourage so many of their citizens to immigrate to the West. I forget, which communist countries encourage their citizens to leave?

    --
    Ken
  7. Re:Humanity is a parasite species. by hcs_$reboot · · Score: 0

    More and more, humans treat themselves with man-made stuff. Mainly food. The million years naturally made human being injects himself tons of non-existing in nature (at that concentration/purity level) matter. The logical outcome of that in a near future is an accelerated "evolution" / adaptation of the body - cancers etc... Men will have to count on an adequately evolved medicine able to counteract these effects on themselves. And in case of a conflict/problem that makes this medicine unavailable, men will get extinct in a matter of a few generations.

    --
    Slashdot, fix the reply notifications... You won't get away with it...
  8. Stop breeding already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    The current population of human beings on this planet is unsustainable. This can either change by design or we can wait for the inevitable wars over increasingly scarce resources. Anyway, I hear soylent green tastes like chicken.

    1. Re:Stop breeding already by thinkwaitfast · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The current population of human beings on this planet is unsustainable.

      If that were true, then wouldn't the population be decreasing instead of increasing? It's like saying you are in a plane and you slow down to below stall speed and say the lift generated by the wings cannot sustain the weight of the plane yet the plane continues to fly. Until populations decrease, all the evidence shows that the population is sustainable.

    2. Re:Stop breeding already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ever seen unsustainable population growth graphs? They boom up into a huge spike and then bust down into extremely low populations.

      Actually, the growth-rate of human population is slowly declining, but we still need policies so that we avoid the worst.

      Captcha: winnings

    3. Re:Stop breeding already by drinkypoo · · Score: 2

      he current population of human beings on this planet is unsustainable.

      If that were true, then wouldn't the population be decreasing instead of increasing? It's like saying you are in a plane and you slow down to below stall speed and say the lift generated by the wings cannot sustain the weight of the plane yet the plane continues to fly.

      If the plane were at 100 ft., that would be true. If the plane begins at 100,000 ft., then (given a decent glide angle) it can stay aloft for quite some time after the engines have failed.

      Think of it this way: you've got a water pump at the bottom of a hill pumping water into a damaged tank. The tank can only hold so much before it bursts. Maybe you've got days before your little pump can cause a tank failure, but running that pump is still unsustainable. HTH, HAND!

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    4. Re: Stop breeding already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The passenger load in your analogy is not only growing, each passenger is consuming more fuel as they acquire wealth. Thus fuel consumption is accelerating, and that rate of consumption is not sustainable. If we fail to compensate, there will be no mid-air refueling.

    5. Re:Stop breeding already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Quite true.

      Take a largish sized US state. Divide it into 1 acre lots. Put a family of 4 on each lot. Divide by the Earth's population.

      That's about 1 billion people right there.

      With a 1 acre lot, in a moderate environment with suitable rain, you can have a roads / paths, a nicely sized house, and land enough to grow enough food to eat. Just take kidney beans alone:

      - they reach maturity in 90 to 150 days, usually ~ 110 days
      - you can almost live off of beans alone
      - an acre of beans planted will produce between 1500 and 2000 pounds of beans
      - you can get up to 3 crops per year
      - your toilet can be converted to turn feces into automatically sterilized fertilizer

      Potatoes are much the same, in that, they mature in the same timeframe. They also produce about 12 tonnes per acre, per crop.

      Between the two, you could actually feed a family of 4 with 1/2 an acre.. even with variable yields.

      There is absolutely, positively no shortage of land or farmland on this planet. We could sustain, quite literally, 100s of billions using current agricultural methods.

      Large tracts of land are sitting unused all over the world, gone back 'to nature'. Other areas are unusable for large scale, mechanized farming, but very usable with a backhoe -- like in your back yard.

      Hell, we throw away -- literally let rot more than 1/2 of our grain. Governments around the world buy up excess milk and other produce, than let it rot and destroy it -- all to keep produce costs up.

      The real truth here is -- sustainable, hell yes! But, would you want to live 'that way'?

    6. Re:Stop breeding already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The current population of human beings on this planet is unsustainable.

      If that were true, then wouldn't the population be decreasing instead of increasing? It's like saying you are in a plane and you slow down to below stall speed and say the lift generated by the wings cannot sustain the weight of the plane yet the plane continues to fly. Until populations decrease, all the evidence shows that the population is sustainable.

      Your example suggests you do not understand the definition of sustainability. There can be a delay from the time you hit unsustainability and the actual collapse.
       
      Example: There is an underground supply of water. It has a huge capacity. It is nearly full. You are consuming the water faster than it is being replenished. Your rate of consumption is staying the same or increasing. You are not out of water, but that does not make it sustainable.

    7. Re:Stop breeding already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then go kill yourself and your family. I mean we have reached the limit. Youve had some good time here..time to let another live.

      See that is what you dont understand. We sre nowhere near the limit of what we can sustain. You are like those who in thr 70's swore the world couldnt feed more people. Hell your ilk had millions steralized in india and the truth is you and your kind are WRONG. And have NEVER been proven right. Everytime one of you starts mouthing about how we cant handle more...guess what...you are wrong. THe USA alone grows enough food to feed the entire world. We pay farmers not to grow. We have them grow non food crops.....because we can sustain so much more. Stop with your idiotic and selfishness of TOO MANY. I say if there are really too many than those who would limit should be the first to go. Enjoy and realize you and your ilk have been proven wrong everytime....even when you had peoples lives destroyed and their reproductive organs mutilated....you are wrong...and are a bad person for being this way. YOu sound like a Hillary supporter......

    8. Re:Stop breeding already by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      The population is.
      Otherwise it would be not there.
      However the capitalizm we have right now is not. Killing sharks by catching them, cutting of their fins, for fancy soups, and dropping them living back into the see is a crime to nature and if you belive in gods: to your makers.
      The workd can easily feed 50billions, probably more, and still retain a huge amount of wilderness.
      The only thing preventing that is human greed, striving for power etc.

      (40% - 50% of all food produced today in western nations: is rotting and thrown away)

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    9. Re:Stop breeding already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We could feed every human on the planet and an extra few billion, up to 10 billion, by turning an equal landmass size of Wales in to Aquaponics farms.

      We are absolutely not over-breeding. We are deliberately holding countries back in poverty so we can get cheap labor.
      There is a massive difference.
      Countries likes America and the UK are the problem. People eating too much.

      Humans don't need to eat 3 meals a day. We don't need constant protein intake unless we are deliberately undergoing physical stress which requires new muscle and other structures built.
      We don't need crap like cakes and chips. We don't need to eat 20 fruits condensed in to a mush every day.
      The human body can survive a long time without food and only water.
      In fact, intermittent fasting improves health considerably that it isn't even funny. It has dramatically improved odds for chemo treatment as well, as recent trials and review have found. (both in humans and mice)
      The majority of food humans in "first world" countries eat literally comes out the back end of them, or goes in the bin at the end of the shopping week. (or less in some cases of horrible over-eaters!)

      Multinationals and megacorps of the food world have ripped all decent nutrients out of food and put them back in under controlled amounts, and included some extra free toxins to boot. Then they get extra money from their friends at the pharmaceuticals to make you buy supplements and medication when you eventually fall ill.
      Shit like vegetable oils are one of the worst things that has come out of it. Cheap toxic shit that has flooded the market all around the world. It's honestly worse than smoking. Hell, you could shoot yourself, wait for it to heal, then do it all over again for the rest of your life and it would still be less bad for you overall than the toxic aldehydes in over-cooked veg oils, and the over-abundance of omega-6.
      It is the number one reason for western illness. Shit needs to be banned outright. NO good comes from it.

      Nope. Can't possibly be true.
      Everyone not in the first world is a "poor, deprived starved Afican", all several billion of them. Oh, wait...
      Only 1.5 billion live in those conditions. (and that is around the whole world)
      Everyone else in-between live perfectly fine lives and are absolutely content.
      So-called "poverty" is in fact a lie. You don't need money to live a good life. You don't need a good GDP to have a comfortable, rich and fulfilled life. Look at China. They have the most billionaires now. Suck on that one, armchair economist twats.
      Bartering is more common in these countries. Either that or they have a local-currency untraded with the global economy. (which is very common, even in the first world countries)
      Nope. "poor and starving". Go take a trip out there and see for yourself. They are far from it.
      A large percentage of those 4 billion have better lives than the lower 20% of the US and EU because, for the most part, these countries punish people for being poor.

    10. Re:Stop breeding already by stigmerger · · Score: 1

      The current population of human beings on this planet is unsustainable.

      If that were true, then wouldn't the population be decreasing instead of increasing? It's like saying you are in a plane and you slow down to below stall speed and say the lift generated by the wings cannot sustain the weight of the plane yet the plane continues to fly. Until populations decrease, all the evidence shows that the population is sustainable.

      Until you hit the ground, all the evidence shows that you can fly.

    11. Re:Stop breeding already by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Then go kill yourself and your family.

      You and yours first.

      See that is what you dont understand. We sre nowhere near the limit of what we can sustain.

      No, see, that is what you don't understand. What we theoretically can do is completely fucking irrelevant in the really real world, where greed rules the day.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    12. Re:Stop breeding already by chiefcrash · · Score: 1

      The current population of human beings on this planet is unsustainable.

      If that were true, then wouldn't the population be decreasing instead of increasing? It's like saying you are in a plane and you slow down to below stall speed and say the lift generated by the wings cannot sustain the weight of the plane yet the plane continues to fly. Until populations decrease, all the evidence shows that the population is sustainable.

      It's been a while since my college biology course, but if I recall correctly, it's not uncommon for a population experiencing exponential growth to shoot right past the carrying capacity for a while. Eventually, the population crashes until numbers fall under the carrying capacity, at which point several outcomes are possible.

      The simple fact that population size is not decreasing is NOT evidence that the population size is sustainable. Rather, the fact that population size isn't slowing down might very well be evidence that it ISN'T sustainable...

      --
      Show me on the 1st Amendment bobblehead where the moderator touched you...
    13. Re:Stop breeding already by Rakarra · · Score: 1

      The current population of human beings on this planet is unsustainable.

      If that were true, then wouldn't the population be decreasing instead of increasing? It's like saying you are in a plane and you slow down to below stall speed and say the lift generated by the wings cannot sustain the weight of the plane yet the plane continues to fly.

      It's like a plane that's continuing to climb even though it doesn't have enough gas to get to the next airport. It's climbing, but it'll reach a bad end soon.

    14. Re:Stop breeding already by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The plane doesn't hit the ground straight away. In fact if the reason you've stalled is you've tried to climb too fast you may keep going up.

      For a little while.

  9. Thats it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To be honest, I would have thought it was more than 10%.

    1. Re:Thats it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Same here - i was expecting it to be much higher

  10. This is the real threat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Loss of trees and vegetation are what will be our downfall due to global warming. Trees and vegetation are what scrubs the co2 out of the air. With less vegetation, the co2 will continue to rise. If you look at studies, man made co2 emissions don't come close to what is emitted by volcanoes and such. Yes man is causing global warming, but the fix is to quit cutting down every flipping tree you see and plant more trees. The earth could take care of us if we would just let it. The problem isn't really the urban sprawl thing either. It is mans desire to cut down trees to make tooth picks and all of the other stuff that we use wood for. Recycled plastic and such and or aluminum can easily be turned into "boards" to build houses. Not only would that eliminate the need to cut down trees but the houses would be stronger.

  11. STOP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    STOP, rethink your take on survival. Wash, Rinse,and REPEAT!!!

  12. Re:Humanity is a parasite species. by penguinoid · · Score: 3, Interesting

    An invasive species is a plant, fungus, or animal species that is not native to a specific location, and which has a tendency to spread to a degree believed to cause damage to the environment.

    I hear an invasive species which escaped from Africa has been causing unprecedented damage to the environment.

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
  13. Re:Humanity is a parasite species. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We are a parasite species but your "FIX" is utterly vacuous. The human contempt continues to be be greed and a self implored feeling of never ending growth. I believe that the human species is inherently good. We will prevail over this implied destruction. We will learn to be non-parasitic.

  14. Re: Humanity is a parasite species. by WarJolt · · Score: 3, Insightful

    The solution is simple. Birth control and education. In almost every nation where that's available we have negative population growth(not accounting for immigration) or they are headed in that direction.

  15. Re:bad guys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They fantasize about deploying suitcase nukes and being the preeminent back-door-slut to Putin. We can continue down this path to vaporize the whole planet. IMO. FuK U.

  16. We Are Made of Wilderness by BrendaEM · · Score: 3, Interesting

    We forget ourselves, and what we are made of.

    Our value system is totally fucked: the new housing index. Apples building new buildings in a Silicon Valley of empty buildings. We've used so much raw materials and fuel for pointless wars. We don't turn off the lights when we leave the room. We have too many instant on appliances with no regulation. Our government hasn't asked us to watch energy usage since the 1970s.

    Perhaps we ought to be extinct.

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
    1. Re:We Are Made of Wilderness by Orgasmatron · · Score: 2

      Everyone always talks about extinction, but no one ever does anything about it. If you want us to take you seriously, show some leadership.

      --
      See that "Preview" button?
    2. Re:We Are Made of Wilderness by BrendaEM · · Score: 1

      Some things that will help in more than one way:

      Our leaders should ask us to take it easy on resources and fuel, and generally, they are not.
      We need to to plant more trees, anywhere we can.
      We need to cut down on unnecessary packaging.
      We need to recycle ABS plastic. It's good plastic, but made of 3 cancer causing chemicals, and made fire retardant with a bromine halogen.
      We need to ration powerful chemicals such as bleach and drain cleaner.
      We need to cut down on detergents. I use 1/3 as much as I am supposed to, and no one has ever noticed.
      We need to put an end to the Chevrolet's brother's invention of the automobile model-year, and return to model, so cars aren't devalued before they are even sold.
      We need to sort are garbage better and design things so that they can be recycled from the get-go.
      We need a value system that wastes less.
      We need to build more 2 and 3 family houses with big yards--instead of single family homes.
      We need to offer someone a ride in our cars--if we are going that way.
      We need to make our roads safer for pedestrians, bicyclists, and motorcyclists, skateboarders, and scooterists. In the SF Bay, lots of people longboard commute.
      We need smaller and lighter cars.
      We need to buy things that can be repaired--instead of thrown away.
      We need to always keep in mind where "away" is before we throw something away from us.
      Where does it go?
      We need not to buy things we don't need or strongly want.

      [Preview? I've been spoiled by after-post editing.]

      --
      https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
    3. Re:We Are Made of Wilderness by tsa · · Score: 1

      The most important thing is that we need to put a value on the nature that we destroy for our needs.

      --

      -- Cheers!

    4. Re:We Are Made of Wilderness by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Start with yourself.

    5. Re:We Are Made of Wilderness by tomxor · · Score: 1

      You have some good ideas, but you need to focus on whats worth while... Recognise what the core principle behind each of your points is and then see if that principle makes sense in their order of execution and context.

      Categories of your points in order of effectiveness:

      By Designs (Preemptive)

      • We need to sort are garbage better and design things so that they can be recycled from the get-go.
      • We need to buy things that can be repaired--instead of thrown away.
      • We need to build more 2 and 3 family houses with big yards--instead of single family homes.
      • We need to make our roads safer for pedestrians, bicyclists, and motorcyclists, skateboarders, and scooterists. In the SF Bay, lots of people longboard commute.
      • We need smaller and lighter cars.
      • We need to to plant more trees, anywhere we can.

      By Mindset (values):

      • We need a value system that wastes less.
      • We need not to buy things we don't need or strongly want.
      • We need to always keep in mind where "away" is before we throw something away from us. Where does it go?
      • We need to offer someone a ride in our cars--if we are going that way.

      By Reduction (Damage Control):

      • We need to cut down on unnecessary packaging.
      • We need to cut down on detergents. I use 1/3 as much as I am supposed to, and no one has ever noticed.
      • We need to put an end to the Chevrolet's brother's invention of the automobile model-year, and return to model, so cars aren't devalued before they are even sold.
      • We need to recycle ABS plastic. It's good plastic, but made of 3 cancer causing chemicals, and made fire retardant with a bromine halogen.
      • We need to ration powerful chemicals such as bleach and drain cleaner.
      • Our leaders should ask us to take it easy on resources and fuel, and generally, they are not.

      I want the same end result of environmentalists, but I find 99% of self proclaimed environmentalists to push annoyingly futile ideas against obvious resisting forces. But we create those forces, it's like we made a river and the environmentalists want to swim upstream and are asking everyone else to follow... no one will follow because it's not practical, only idealists - which is not useful because there is no point if we can't get the vast majority of people on board, the vast majority of people are NOT idealists. Change the river don't ask people to kill themselves going the wrong way.

      Most environmentalist ideas reside in the "Reduction" category. In principle reduction is making stuff less-bad - I say fuck that, make it good. "less-bad" is pointless in the face of economic and human growth whos rate will always outpace any reduction rate (another topic all together). The Alternative to "Reduction" is at the opposite end of the scale: "Design"

      Like it or not much of the world creates "stuff" whith the ultimate driving force of it being sold and put in the ground so that more can be sold. If "repairable" can be made more profitable then great, that's a practical way to solve part of this problem by design, but ultimately some things will still go in the ground... Actually it's best to just assume that everything you sell to people will go in the ground, either because it's just not a repairable thing, or (more likely) because they can't be bothered. Which is why designing it out of materials that can both go in the ground or be trivially separated (no sorting nonsense please, again dont rely in individuals to spend their lives sorting garbage) is the most effective solution, but this requires material science and engineering... your top point about designing for recycling is the closest to this.

      TL;DR if you care about the environment stop whining about reduction, whine about products, manufacturers and materials or better become a material scientist and engineer a solution, make it impossible for people to put non degradable toxic carcinogens in the ground by never giving it to them in the first place.

  17. So who do we blame? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Who are the people/corporations buying this land?

  18. DON'T PANIC â" Hans Rosling showing the facts by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This excellent video really helps you understand the population situation, including the hard to grasp concept of "population fill in".
    https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FACK2knC08E
    Population is indeed going to level off after adding about 4 billion people, mostly in Africa, over the next 70 years.

  19. Just another 90% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And we can finally have the Rapture!

    That's how it works right guys?

  20. I'm doing my part! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Our family company deals with the canadian logging industry. Those canucks really know how to strip forests bare.

    1. Re:I'm doing my part! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yup, they sure do: JDI's Sustainable Forestry Story in NB

      All of the forest around this highway is replanted, and has grown from a few inches high when I was a kid to well over 25 feet now. It will be ready to cut again soon: https://goo.gl/maps/4AJjYGJt3kv

      You have to be tough to plant trees and make a buck at it. Really tough. You can apply here.

      Those canucks know how to do it right.

    2. Re:I'm doing my part! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I agree they're doing a tad better THIS decade because business has been down roughly 30% in certain provinces (that also has to do with china underbidding our great lakes shippers tho), but overall they're chugging right along and the replanting isn't making a dent in how fast them canucks are still stripping their woodlands bare.

      "Since 1999, 44% of the area on public lands has been harvested by clearcutting, with the remaining 56% harvested with partial cutting systems.
      Social concerns about large clearcuts led to a decrease in average size from 45 hectares on public lands in 1989 to 30 hectares in 2006.
      In 2009/10, 15% of harvesting on public lands was by clearcutting; the rest used clearcuts with reserves and partial cutting systems.

      Clearcutting, though the most efficient and least expensive way of harvesting wood, may create difficulties that impede the establishment of regeneration. Obtaining natural regeneration of white spruce in Alaska and boreal Canada after clearcutting has proved to be difficult. In addition, white spruce that are outplanted in the open in boreal climates without a modicum of protective "nursing" can stagnate for decades."

  21. Let's talk about the meat of the matter. by Vegan+Cyclist · · Score: 1

    Since 1990? Geez...that's setting the bar pretty low...let's go back a few hundred years, I bet it's more like 80%.

    Sadly one of the main culprits almost sounds like a footnote - 'logging' is often done to clear land for livestock, just look at the Amazon. And most of the 'agriculture' is also to support that same livestock. In the US, 1/2 of ALL land is used for livestock - either space they take up, or for producing their food (and 70-90% of all corn, soy and wheat grown in the US is fed to livestock). XKCD has a stunning graphic showing the mass of all mammals on the planet.....and much is (you guessed it) livestock, followed by humans, with a sprinkling of wild mammals. NatGeo illustrates how much land there is on the planet, how much remains 'untouched', and how much we consume. We use up almost 40% of the entire non-ice land for 'agriculture', the vast majority as pastures, and you'll find much of the cropland is also devoted to this area.'Free range' is actually worse, demanding even more space than 'factory farmed'.

    If you really care about this issue, consider what you're eating. When it comes to resource use (water, energy, space), livestock are at the top, or near. And it's a change we all can make. (And there's never been greater vegan options to choose from, give them a try if you haven't!)

    1. Re: Let's talk about the meat of the matter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Even a modest reduction in meat consumption can be helpful. Don't expect a "Eat less meat" PSA any time soon though.

    2. Re: Let's talk about the meat of the matter. by sonamchauhan · · Score: 1

      Genuine free range is better for the envt. Not fake 'free range', where cage hens get a plank to perch on.

      I once visited a farm where the famer was raising pigs and cattle using organic methods and intelligently 'rotating livestock' in his farmland, giving it time to recover. He had turned the farm around; topsoil was coming back, a nitrogen loving weed overgrowth was receding, vegetation native to the area was returning. The farm was heathier and closer to homeostasis.

      To distinguish between fake and true, ask questions. And speak to the source of your food. As this farmer said... to eat well, nothing beats a direct relationship between producer and consumer.

    3. Re:Let's talk about the meat of the matter. by thesupraman · · Score: 2, Informative

      You really REALLY think that people eating less meat would reduce farming scale in any way?
      Thats just... so cute (being kind here).

      Hint: high value land use for livestock is very small compared to total farming, and also tends to be concentrated on poorer land.
      Hence, if you want to save your wilderness (which, if it is forests, is usually on better quality land), then time to stop eating
      those grains and vegetables! they use far FAR more land area, and are the primary cause of deforestation.

      Yes, I know that doesnt fit in with you 'I'm a vegetarian, so *I* am saving the planet!' worldview, but suck it up - its the simple
      facts of farming. Livestock farming is much lower impact that crop farming.

      So yes, thinking about what you eat - and avoid most of the vegetarian diet if you actually want to make an impact on the scale
      of farm land use..

      Oh, and by the way, water use is also much lower for livestock compared to dietary value (hint: they dont CONSUME water, they
      drink it, and believe it or not they then return it to the paddock, helpfully converted to a farm that helps the grass grow - amazing aint
      it!)

      Perhaps if you spent a little time actually on farms, this would all be clear - however I suspect your inner city apartment is much more
      your speed, right? VeganCyclist? I thought so. wouldnt want to get dirty now would we.

    4. Re:Let's talk about the meat of the matter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nice wrapping there, bro. I concur.

      VOTE TRUMP 2016
      MAKE AMERICA STRONG AGAIN
      (have a cow and eat it too)

    5. Re:Let's talk about the meat of the matter. by Mashiki · · Score: 1

      Some good points, just remember the west doesn't have a deforestation problem. Poorer countries do because they're trying to increase acreage to feed more people. It also doesn't help that shit-tier environmental groups and general stupidity(of the people that support them) stop things that could easily help those countries like GMO seeds, or improved farming techniques, basic farming practices. Groups like greenpeace would much rather dry wash their hands and declare high-nutrition grains/rice "poison" and let people starve to death while decrying modern farming techniques that use less acreage per person as "wasteful and destructive."

      It was one of the main complaints of Norman Borlaug when he was trying the feed Africa, much like his grain/rotational farming/hybridization techniques that he used in Mexico and India. Keep in mind that prior to the anti-farming BS and genocidal push of people like Mugabe, countries like Zimbabwe were providing 90% of the grain that Europe used. That was after their own requirements for consumption.

      --
      Om, nomnomnom...
    6. Re:Let's talk about the meat of the matter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Livestock requires land for it AND land to grow the grains to feed them. How is that better than only using land to grow grains? In which fantasy world do you live in where 1+1 is lower than 0+1? And livestock eats more grain than people, too.

    7. Re:Let's talk about the meat of the matter. by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Groups like greenpeace would much rather dry wash their hands and declare high-nutrition grains/rice "poison" and let people starve to death while decrying modern farming techniques that use less acreage per person as "wasteful and destructive."
      You are an idiot.
      Groups like Greenpeace advocate better farming techniques, educate farmers, finance projects since nearly 50 years. You must have a very confused idea what greenpeace and world wild life fond etc. actually are doing.
      Moron ...

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    8. Re:Let's talk about the meat of the matter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The difference is that GreenPeace's definition of "better farming techniques" does not always mean using "less acreage per person".

    9. Re:Let's talk about the meat of the matter. by Vegan+Cyclist · · Score: 1
      Did you even read what I posted, or visit any of the links? Because they are evidence against your claims. Please back up what you're saying.

      Yes, I know that doesnt fit in with you 'I'm a vegetarian, so *I* am saving the planet!' worldview, but suck it up - its the simple facts of farming.

      Err...as a "meat-eater", you do realize that you're just as biased? Perhaps this is an opportunity to learn from a differing opinion. I grew up as a regular meat-eater, and as I learned more about what's going on, I changed my habits in response. I have a very strong feeling that, as someone who's spent a *lot* of time reading and researching this area, I've possibly learned a bit more about food systems than you have. However, I'm happy to have you inform me. Please find some US maps illustrating the land use of human crops vs livestock feed - I've already posted some, but go ahead and surprise me. Show me the studies from the US showing how livestock is lower impact (and I'm talking water, land-use, and other resources like oil and electricity) than crops. (Yes, there are a few exceptions, but these areas are in the vast minority compared to where most agriculture takes place, so please don't cherry pick an uncommon incident.) As for them 'drinking water', you do realize most livestock in the US are kept on factory farms, and they have immense pools collecting their waste...and it's not 'watering' anything - it's typically polluting nearby water systems. And yes, I've spent a fair bit of time on farms, although that's not necessary to learn about them. Most animal products don't come from the idyllic farm you've got in mind -- and if it began to, we'd run out of space to keep them in the US pretty quick. I don't think you appreciate how much space 10+ billion animals (the number in the US) take up. (And how much they eat, and shit and piss.)

      I welcome your research.

    10. Re:Let's talk about the meat of the matter. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I don't think you appreciate how much space 10+ billion animals (the number in the US) take up.

      First, assume an average spherical cow occupying approximately 1.275m^3. Using the optimal dense sphere packing ratio of 74%, we can see that 10+ billion cows would occupy at least 17.23 km^3, or about 44% the volume of water contained by the Three Gorges Dam.

    11. Re:Let's talk about the meat of the matter. by Vegan+Cyclist · · Score: 1

      haha.. Given cows aren't stacked, squared km would be more relevant..but then factor in that each one needs a certain amount of space to graze, etc..and then a LOT more space for their primary feed...as I already posted, livestock consumes about half the land used in the US. Here's another article highlighting many of the concerns.

  22. Oh sure! by dohzer · · Score: 1

    Oh sure, focus on the loss of wilderness rather than the energy and minerals that have been sourced!

    1. Re:Oh sure! by BlueStrat · · Score: 1

      Oh sure, focus on the loss of wilderness rather than the energy and minerals that have been sourced!

      As the saying some here like to quote goes; "With taxes I buy civilization" there's a corollary to that here; 'With energy and resources I build civilization".

      IMO the ultimate goal should be to move as much industrialization, resource gathering, energy production/collection, and other manufacturing and industrial processes as possible & practical off of the planet. This will solve or greatly mitigate a whole host of problems.

      In order to accomplish that goal, we must advance our scientific, industrial, and technical bases to a level sufficient to achieve that level of technological capability. This will at first require using finite planetary resources and energy.

      Keeping in mind the finite nature of planetary resources, conserving too much for too long will mean passing the 'point of no-return' where there will no longer be sufficient resources available, thereby dooming civilization to disintegrate when sufficient planetary resources to maintain it are gone. Make no mistake, the clock is ticking on Man's window of opportunity to move his heavy industry (and himself) off-planet.

      There has to be an optimum curve that describes the optimum usage rates/patterns vs tech/industrial/scientific advancement/capability vs pollution/AGW/resource-depletion, keeping in mind that once most heavy industrial/mining/energy production moves off-planet much of the damage will be healed/reclaimed by nature plus any reclamatory projects undertaken.

      "You know why, since they vastly outnumber us, all the animals haven't just ganged up and killed all us humans?" "No, why?" "Because they know we're the only ones that have any hope of saving their asses from the *next* meteor!"

      Strat

      --
      Progressivism (aka US 'Liberalism'): Ideas so good they need a police/surveillance-state to enforce.
  23. Suspicious figures by flyingfsck · · Score: 1

    Antarctica alone is 14 million square kilometers, so the hysterical figures were obviously obtained the 'traditional way'.

    --
    Excuse me, but please get off my Pennisetum Clandestinum, eh!
    1. Re:Suspicious figures by sonamchauhan · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Maybe you got a point and they didn't include Antarctica.

      On the other hand, Antarctica has little foliage. And ifs not green, it won't absorb CO2 and generate oxygen.

      If the last wilderness left remaining is Antarctica, we choke to death, pretty much.

    2. Re:Suspicious figures by mrbester · · Score: 3, Interesting

      "The researchers determined that only 11.6 million square miles (30.1 million square km) of wilderness is left, which equates to just 20 percent of the Earth's total land mass"

      So, not including Antarctica, humans occupy 80% of the total land mass of the planet? Doesn't look like that from the light pollution pictures that were recently released. The taiga (boreal forest) alone is larger than 20% and as they are including other areas like deserts and prairie / veldt in their "calculations" they must have missed some decimal points or the planet would look more like Coruscant.

      --
      "Wait. Something's happening. It's opening up! My God, it's full of apricots!"
    3. Re:Suspicious figures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      False dichotomy. The definition of wilderness is not "doesn't have humans living there"

      There are more than two classifications here.

    4. Re:Suspicious figures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Informative

      Not to mention basically all of Canada. More than 85% of Canada's population lives within 250km of the US border.

      The rest? Tundra. Forest. "The North", beyond the tree line. That's 10million square kilometers right there, minus about 1 million or so.

      Outside of a couple of bigger cities, in that 9M remaining, you'll find a town of 2000 people, 200km from another town. You'll find roads where there are houses (cottages) every 10km or so.

      Even where I live? I have a 1 acre lot, there are 49 other lots like it, and surrounding it? Preservation land, and Gatineau Park. Houses stuck in the middle of the forest.

      I can tell you that there are bears, wolves, cougars, coyotes, badgers, deer, moose, and about 100 other easily viable wild animals in the area.

      I think they ignore the fact that 'rural' areas wilderness too. Animals have *always* lived with man around, for we ARE an animal. Only recently, the last few hundred years, have our cities become so large, and so non-rural.

      The bear, the coyote, they are USED to 'oh, that is a man home'. Because man lives someplace, does not make it 'non-wilderness'.

      Is it suddenly not nature, because of beavers building a beaver dam? Like this?

      http://www.seeker.com/largest-beaver-dam-seen-from-space-1765052359.html

      Beavers build homes, just like man, from wood.

      So, to really define that 'wilderness is lost', one should define the destruction of wilderness that really isn't for the purposes of living in it. Co-existing in it. Rural housing does just that. Small, population 2000, or population 100 people villages do that too.

      So I contend that they are including 'any place man lives', instead of 'these areas have man in them, but left most of the trees and wildlife alone'.

      There are trees all around my home, trees on my land, wildflowers in my back yard, and pure nature all around.

      Yet, I live 25km from Ottawa, ON -- one of the largest Canadian cities.

    5. Re:Suspicious figures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because large fields of sugar cane and oil palms emit huge amounts of light, of course.

      This isn't about 'occupation'.

    6. Re: Suspicious figures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It will once it has melted

    7. Re: Suspicious figures by KenHansen · · Score: 1

      If the last wilderness left remaining is Antarctica, we choke to death, pretty much.

      Thank god all the polar ice is melting, the we can grow some foliage and survive!

    8. Re:Suspicious figures by presidenteloco · · Score: 1

      A good definition of wilderness might be ecosystems whose composition and function has not been significantly altered by human activity.

      Canada's vast second-growth tree-farms, and ex-forests that are ranch land, and prairie that has lost its original grasses and beasts, do not count. Also, forested areas which once had large contiguous unroaded areas, providing safe roaming for large prey animals etc, and which now are cut up by road networks, also do not count.

      Areas whose climate changes rapidly over the next century or two, and thus whose species mix is reduced and significantly altered, also won't count.

      --

      Where are we going and why are we in a handbasket?
    9. Re:Suspicious figures by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're leaning too far, I think, on these counts.

      Wilderness is wilderness. For example, Canada's climate has changed dramatically over the last 30,000 years. Entire biomes were wiped out, and replaced with others. And after the retreat of the glaciers 10,000 years ago, things have continued to change.

      Why?

      The ice age.

      This event was far more devastating to local wildlife than man ever has been. Where a deer might live, suddenly year long ice and snow existed, with no vegetation.

      Yet, you contend that anything that changes (eg, second growth forests, prairies with different wildlife on them and invasive plants) become "no longer wild."

      Does this then mean that the entire planet isn't 'wild' any more? Even 8000 years ago, much of what was here before 'the white man' arrived didn't exist.

      Change does not indicate an ending of wilderness. Note that I did not include ranch land or farms in my definition of wilderness, btw. More, I explained that there are 'sections' of wilderness. For example, I can walk out my front door, walk 200M across my land to preservation land, and then walk through forest to the tree line! Yes, 5000km!

      As per roads, you need to have more definition. Roads that have 100 cars a day, 2 cars a night, and are spaced 100s of kilometers apart aren't by any means 'cut up' areas of land. Absurd. An animal makes ZERO distinction between rock and tarmac, and most of these roads are dirt roads.

      Cars are just predators to animals, to hide from and be wary of. Like, you know, wolves, bears, coyotes, and a myriad of other things animals must be wary of.

      We are part of nature. Our works sometimes are not. Man-works are not 'horrible things' that animals fear.

    10. Re:Suspicious figures by sound+vision · · Score: 1

      It depends on how they define "wilderness." I'm currently living in The Woodlands, TX (actual name) which people from Houston consider "the country", but there is an average population density of 2,500 people per square mile. The developers have just gotten really good at hiding it: things like strips of trees that border the main roads, blocking the view of the suburban sprawl. Roads that curve pointlessly so that you can't see down the length of them. When you drive through this area you get the impression that it's still somewhat natural land... until you take notice of the long, long lines of cars everywhere. Or the 4-story apartment complexes. Or you take a turn off any main road and get lost in suburbs for days. Or you look at satellite photos from 10 years ago, and compare them to recent photos... that lays it plain. You can hide this stuff from earth-bound humans' line-of-sight pretty well, but not from an aerial photo.
      I haven't studied biology in detail but I don't think you need to hit 2500/mi population density for there to be severe disruptions to an ecosystem. I get the feeling the wilderness loss they're talking about isn't "small town becoming big city", it's "undeveloped land becoming partly developed land". Think of light pollution - the light bulbs themselves take up a minuscule amount of space, but their pollution covers the majority of the planet, already, today.
      My personal definition of wilderness is being able to walk for a whole day in any direction without seeing a sign of human activity. The only time I experienced that was in rural Finland almost two decades ago.

    11. Re:Suspicious figures by sound+vision · · Score: 1

      There are trees all around my home, trees on my land, wildflowers in my back yard, and pure nature all around.

      Some of my previous residences have looked like that too. I won't speak to the situation where you are, but I will relate what I discovered about my locality after putting some thought (and research) into it. From another comment on this article:

      The developers have just gotten really good at hiding it: things like strips of trees that border the main roads, blocking the view of the suburban sprawl. Roads that curve pointlessly so that you can't see down the length of them. When you drive through this area you get the impression that it's still somewhat natural land... until you take notice of the long, long lines of cars everywhere. Or the 4-story apartment complexes. Or you take a turn off any main road and get lost in suburbs for days. Or you look at satellite photos from 10 years ago, and compare them to recent photos... that lays it plain. You can hide this stuff from earth-bound humans' line-of-sight pretty well, but not from an aerial photo.

      You also have to consider that things that take up a small percentage of the land - like roads - have an impact that extends way beyond the concrete itself. Likely, the definition of "wilderness" they use has to do with humans' effects on ecosystems. Not how aesthetically pleasing it is to homebuyers.

    12. Re:Suspicious figures by dywolf · · Score: 1

      Antarctica really isn't all that big, and most of that wilderness is in the remote regions of Africa, South America, and northern Canada/Russia. just because you lack the ability to grasp the numbers doesn't invalidate them. in fact, the article even points out that it is 20% of earth's land area.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  24. Re:DON'T PANIC â" Hans Rosling showing the fa by bazorg · · Score: 1

    Saw that a while back. The maths makes sense but does not consider whether 10-11Bn people is sustainable, how, and whether it is even desirable to have so many people on the planet. Considering how a scarce millions migrating to Western Europe from Syria/M.E. lead to political paralysis and chaos, it won't be easy to deal with many millions relocating as resources like drinking water become hard to get in India/China, or many areas in Europe and Africa that look likely to become more like desert as the global climate crisis progresses.

  25. Only? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Only 10%, that actually sounds optimistic.

  26. Re:Humanity is a parasite species. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Looks like some mod doesn't like that humans technically fit the definition of an "invasive species". Or perhaps someone is too stupid to realize that all humans come from Africa, not just the ones with more melanin.

  27. Aren't we good? by tsa · · Score: 2

    That's pretty impressive and a testament to human ingenuity! If we are smart enough to destroy so much nature in so little time we should be smart enough to find alternatives to destroying it too.

    --

    -- Cheers!

  28. Tired of crap news everywhere? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't you get tired that every news outlet* is incessantly telling us how bad things are and how worse they're going to get?

    Do you feel it's more than a little exageration when humans get equated with parasites?

    Have a look at the Positive News Thread and start your day with the good stuff: positive fact-supported stories, often from the backpages of the same industry that is trying to depress us into oblivion.

    *Except those that focus on technology. Ahem, I'm look at you Slashdot.

  29. Re: Humanity is a parasite species. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Yes and for that the yankees killed them all...

  30. Re: Humanity is a parasite species. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Prehistoric people in North America are strongly suspected as having been instrumental in finally killing off the last if the prehistoric horses and camels there, although climate change may also have been a factor.

  31. so we know what 100% is? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    see?!

  32. Only one specific stat by dumky2 · · Score: 1

    On the other hand, biomass has been increasing, arable footprint is likely to shrink, people are better fed and live better, no shortage of wilderness.
    http://www.econtalk.org/archiv...

    --
    These comments are mine; I do not speak for my employer.
    1. Re:Only one specific stat by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      On the other hand, biomass has been increasing,

      Uh no. Biomass is a tiny fraction of what it was before human intervention. We have approximately the same forested area as hundreds of years ago, but the trees are very young. Older forests not only have more biomass, but they also fix more CO2. (It's not true for every species, but on average, it is the case.) The word "biomass" also does not appear in the linked transcript.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    2. Re:Only one specific stat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You'll want to provide a source for that.

      As for biomass increasing, you're correct it is not in this study, but others (that's my point, only one stat). For instance: http://www.nature.com/nclimate/journal/v5/n5/full/nclimate2581.html

      Trend is stable for marine life, for instance: http://phys.org/news/2011-04-method-biomass-reveals-fish-stocks.html

      Overall technology enables us to produce more from a smaller area, so we're seeing land being "returned to nature". For instance, see http://www.tradingeconomics.com/world/arable-land-hectares-per-person-wb-data.html or http://data.worldbank.org/indicator/AG.LND.AGRI.ZS

  33. Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Only 20% of the earth is wilderness? One look at a map of the earth or a globe will show you this isn't remotely true. Canada, Siberia, China, the American West, Antarctica, Africa, South America - all have vast area of wilderness.

    Thing that irritates me is that I'm a tree-hugger and this kind of sensationalist crap only makes the cause look like childish idiots. That's not helping.

    1. Re: Bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      70% of the earth is water, so at most 30% of the surface can be land-based wilderness.

    2. Re:Bullshit by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      And a lot of those areas are farms. Take a look at the prairies in Canada and the US and most of it has been converted to farmland. Sure there's the Boreal Forest in northern Canada and Alaska and the area above but it's not as large as it looks on maps (I forget the name of the effect).

  34. In Denial by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The same types of people that deny global warming will not confront that behind loss of wilderness is the same issue of an exploding population and lack of mandatory birth control. Pollution is simply the consequence of human activity. Less human activity yields less pollution. It could not be simpler. But you can count on nothing being done to stop the horrors which are upon us.

  35. Depends on how one defines "wilderness" by blindseer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Once wilderness is gone, it cannot be restored because the ecological processes that underpin the ecosystems are destroyed, the researchers said. The only option, they said, is to proactively protect what is left.

    This is true only because they define wilderness so narrowly. I've seen what happens when people no longer inhabit an area, wilderness takes over. The ecosystem can grow and restore itself. If we define "wilderness" only as areas undisturbed by human activity then, by definition, wilderness can only shrink or stay the same. Which then leads one to ask, how did that ecosystem get there in the first place? The answer is either it grew there naturally, or some deity wished it into being.

    I don't know if I should assume these people are Creationists or that they didn't think this all the way through. What I really think though is that they are trying to simplify the problem to the point it has become a lie. They lie to us hoping we don't think it through.

    They also assume that "wilderness" is always better than what human activity can create. I've seen many great gardens, animal habitats, parks, arboretums, etc. where there was just barren land before. If allowed to occur naturally it would have taken thousands of years for so much plant and animal life to spread like that.

    Do these people think humans can only destroy? People create things too, beautiful things even. People can even make the world better. Preserving wilderness at the cost of humanity's ability to grow, learn, and explore is beyond wrong, I believe it is a mental illness.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  36. Externalities by MrKaos · · Score: 1

    All companies around the world produce negative externalities that have a detrimental effect on the ecosystem of the Earth. It is profitable to obscure them so as not to spend money on acting to correct the externality. There are tens of thousands of negative externalities that all contribute to destroy the environment the human species depends on, with carbon based pollution being the alpha externality of them all.

    That's why the denialist rhetoric is hyperactive about carbon externalities. The very fact that there are so many other externalities to deal with is a huge expense to business. If you can obscure cabon's role as an externality then you can bring the role of all externalities into question and avoid those costs.

    PR is always cheaper than actually doing something.

    --
    My ism, it's full of beliefs.
  37. Obligatory Robocop by Yvan256 · · Score: 1
  38. So what? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There's a lot of wilderness on the moon, Venus, and Mercury. They aren't doing anybody any good.

  39. Re:Humanity is a parasite species. by penguinoid · · Score: 1

    Native Americans learned to live in harmony with the land and take only what they need.

    If we tried to "live in harmony with nature" (aka slash-and-burn agriculture plus hunting, or whatever other old technologies you like) at our current population levels, then two things would happen:
    1) We'd kill off a huge chunk of nature
    2) Nature would kill off a huge chunk of us

    --
    Don't waste your vote! Vote for whoever you want, unless you live in a swing state it won't matter anyways
  40. Re:bad guys by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't deny the problem is overpopulation. The communist governments of the west depend on immigration...

    I don't know about that. Communist governments are quite adept at killing tens of millions of their own people.

  41. Re:Humanity is a parasite species. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just have to post this one

    http://imgc-cn.artprintimages....

  42. Foolishness by ChrisMaple · · Score: 3, Informative

    TFA states that once an area ceases to be wilderness, it can never be wilderness again.

    By about 1840, nearly all of New England was farmland. No wilderness, except for areas too steep or rocky for agriculture. Now, most has reverted to forest. Keeping an area open requires constant effort; trees colonize unmowed areas pretty quickly.

    --
    Contribute to civilization: ari.aynrand.org/donate
  43. We can do better by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

    Let's get rid of 25% by 2030! /s

  44. Ecological Debt by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The plane and its lift are a simple system. Ecology, especially of the planet, is more complex. It's not apparent, but look up ecological debt. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7988648.stm

  45. Yes but in some local areas 100 percent. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I would take 1960 Kissimmee Fla. to what there is now, but to a new person it looks fine.

    To me they really tore down paradise and put up a parking lot.

  46. Thanks, Obama! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nice to see where his priorities are.

  47. Yet We Refuse to Control Population by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We have all of these problems, the root cause of which is overpopulation, yet we refuse to control population or reproduction.

    You reap what you sow.

  48. Lost? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The correct word is 'destroyed' or maybe 'disrupted' if you want to go lightly. Using lost completely disconnects the responsibility of the act.

  49. More like 4.5% of the US is wilderness by dlenmn · · Score: 1

    The United States government owns 47 percent of all land in the West. (That's about 1/4th of our country that is, essentially, wilderness.)

    Could you explain the logic of "It's owned by the government, therefore it's wilderness"? A lot of federally-owned area is used for cattle grazing, logging, indian reservations, recreation, man-made bodies of water, military facilities, etc.

    The federal government does have designated wildernesses, but they form only about 4.5% of the US land mass. (FWIW, over half of the designated wilderness is in Alaska.) Of course, the government's definition of wilderness is not the same as the definition in TFA, but assuming that 25% of the US landmass is wilderness by any reasonable definition is absurd.

  50. Privatize by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    All of the land mentioned is controlled by corrupt governments.
    Governments do not know how to efficiently use land.
    Every country that follows these policies has this problem. The US doesn't.
    Sure, we have national parks, but agriculture is largely private.
    Thus, it pays for an individual to continue to produce with the same land, whereas areas like the Amazon; they do not replant.
    Why should they? They have no cost incentive to.

  51. Re:Humanity is a parasite species. by sabbede · · Score: 1
    Absurd from any direction.

    The Earth is a wet ball of rock. Rocks can't get parasites, they aren't living organisms.

    The ecosystem existing on that ball of rock comprises all life, therefore any organism is a component of the ecosystem. So, even under the "ecosystem as organism" model, no organism can be a parasite on the global ecosystem itself as that would generate a logically impossible infinite loop of self-parasitism.

  52. Is that objectively bad? by sabbede · · Score: 1
    However it is that they are defining and calculating wilderness, is less necessarily bad? Running out of oxygen would be bad, but they aren't talking about oxygen production, just "wilderness".

    Reading the article, there are plenty of claims being made, but I'm not seeing any basis for them other than the assumptions of researchers. Some, like "supporting many of the world's most politically and economically marginalized communities", seem inherently contradictory. If there are communities in these areas, they cannot be wilderness. If the people are politically and economically disadvantaged, wouldn't development be the route to correcting that?

  53. Re: Humanity is a parasite species. by Coren22 · · Score: 1

    Did Muhammad have anything to say about Allah's feelings on birth control? I wasn't aware of anything that says that followers of Islam cannot use condoms. Can you point to this directive of Allah's?

    --
    APK likes to ask for responses to the same things over and over. Maybe he just likes the responses?
  54. We have to eradicate Africans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This means the ones who are brown, down to Earth, the color of excrement, or would claim to be Americans. It is very clear, from an objective and emotional point of view. Instead it seems we went against Syrians et al despite being nearer to Europeans than to Africans. WE will regret it if we dont, or... TELL ME: WHAT IS THE STATE OF THE INDEPENDENT AFRICAN SPACE PROGRAM, EH? Mind that some of them KNOW how to turn pink and look like very WASP old and wealthy Americans... SEE in Facebook the NASA pictures of jungle fires this year: they managed to create a WALL HALF CONTINENT ACROSS OF FIRES. YOU here in Slashdot will be persecuted one by one because of this remark because Africans do know this is seerious and they are EXPECTING IT.