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Steve Wozniak May Swap His Tesla For A Chevy Bolt (siliconbeat.com)

An anonymous Slashdot reader quotes a San Jose Mercury News article about "Apple co-founder and electric vehicle fan Steve Wozniak." Woz posted a picture of himself, smiling, next to a new, white Chevy Bolt. General Motors gave Woz the fully electric sedan for an extended test drive. He liked it. "I expect to be switching cars soon!" Woz wrote in a photo caption.

The battery-powered Bolt is due for release late this year. The four-door hatchback has an advertised range of 200 miles per charge, with a sticker price around $37,500. The EV will compete head-to-head with the Tesla Model 3. The Tesla entry-level sedan, expected to start at $35,000, will be released late next year.

It's interesting to read Wozniak's later comments on the post. "A lot of things wrong with the Tesla model S are done correctly (my opinion) in this car... It gets down to my product ideas of balance and getting the most from the least. Try to make things simple and affordable but very adequate. This car hits my sweet spot."

And in response to the obvious question, Woz replied "Maybe one Segway would fit. And a seat can be folded down."

33 of 286 comments (clear)

  1. A real comparison? by sid+crimson · · Score: 2

    As someone who'd love an electric car, I'm already out of the running with a family of four children. I don't have the cash for a "second" car - it make better financial sense for me to spend that cash on gasoline.

    That said, I was salivating over the Model 3. The Bolt looks good, and is a step in the right direction, but it's a MUCH smaller vehicle. Plus, as a Chevy owner, I don't hear ANY stories of how my car's manufacturer goes above and beyond to support me. Shoot, my car company even declined to honor a transferred warranty from the previous owner (I paid my fee) and then later declined to honor a voluntary recall because my vehicle was beyond their mileage limit by 100 miles.

    Seems like all I hear about Tesla is "we're working to become awesome" and from their owners "it's true, they are awesome." Aim for that level of satisfaction, Chevy, and I'll purchase an Acadia.

    1. Re:A real comparison? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Insightful

      As someone who'd love an electric car, I'm already out of the running with a family of four children. I don't have the cash for a "second" car

      Electric cars are still bleeding edge. The amount you save on gasoline, even over the full life of the car, will not pay for the premium price. You don't buy them to save money. You buy them to help change the world (and maybe for the convenience). If battery improvements continue at their current pace, the financial break even point is still five or ten years away.

      Seems like all I hear about Tesla is "we're working to become awesome" and from their owners "it's true, they are awesome."

      My wife has a Tesla. Yes, their customer support is awesome. So are their cars.

    2. Re:A real comparison? by Solandri · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Seems like all I hear about Tesla is "we're working to become awesome" and from their owners "it's true, they are awesome."

      You can afford to be awesome when you're selling $100k luxury cars with probably a profit margin (excluding R&D costs) of $10k-$20k each.

      When you're building $30k cars with razor-thin margins of a few hundred dollars each, it's a whole 'nother ballgame. I would love it if Tesla can keep up their current policies and support with the Model 3, but I seriously doubt they'll be able to. Even the free supercharges for life is questionable for the Model 3.

    3. Re:A real comparison? by topologicalanomaly47 · · Score: 2

      The laptop - desktop analogy is wrong.

    4. Re:A real comparison? by SuperKendall · · Score: 5, Funny

      It's like a desktop vs a laptop.

      Oh my god, now cars are breeding computer analogies! It some sort of horrible re-enforcing circle of madness.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    5. Re:A real comparison? by whoever57 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Even the free supercharges for life is questionable for the Model 3.

      No, it isn't questionable. It's not going to exist.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    6. Re:A real comparison? by ArmoredDragon · · Score: 2

      You know why I want an electric car? It's all about time.

      - I can drive on the HOV lane and reduce my commute time by half.
      - Maintenance required is dramatically reduced (i.e. no oil changes.)
      - No more weekly trip to the gas station (I couldn't care less about the $30 it costs to fill my tank; I make that much money in a very short amount of time.)

      Still, a tesla model S is beyond my price range, and I'm presently saving the cash to buy a house during the next financial and real-estate collapse (which I'm predicting is going to hit sometime in the range of late 2017 and early 2018) so I'm not going to dispose of it on a car.

    7. Re:A real comparison? by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The thing about electrics though is the gas is a small part of the savings. There just aren't significant parts to break and need replacement; though obviously depending on design.

      No ICE, no oil, no maintenance. No transmission, just a straight connection from motor to wheel (linkages as necessary but no gears, etc).

      Replacing a battery isn't cheap but it is a very very straightforward thing. Unlike replacing an engine, which your transmission isn't engineered for.

      The 'life' of an electric vehicle should realistically be multiple years beyond even the best ICE vehicles...bringing the ownership cost down even farther.

      And then take into account that if you can put in a house battery and solar, you could get your 'fuel' entirely for free. You'll never do that with an ICE even with ethanol. This perhaps ties to your 5-10 years prediction which is reasonable. But there are still lots of savings involved beyond the fuel.

      The cheapest option of course is a used ICE car for $5-10K ;-)

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    8. Re:A real comparison? by FrankSchwab · · Score: 4, Informative

      The amount you save on gasoline, even over the full life of the car, will not pay for the premium price.

      Not for current cars, but that's where the Model 3 is so exciting. $35000 is the median car price for new cars in the US, and that's where the Model 3 is intended to hit. There certainly was a premium for the Model S, but the premium is no longer there for the Model 3. Heck, if Chevy is going to try to sell the compact-sized Bolt for 35000, you could say that the Model 3 will be selling at a discount being as it's a bigger car with more features (like, say, a charging infrastructure).

      By my calculation, I'll save about $1000 / year on energy costs over my Honda Civic. I normally keep cars for 10 years or so, so I'll be about $10,000 ahead at the end of my ownership - which is about the premium I'd pay over buying a new Civic. That's assuming that gas stays at it's current low price - let it climb back up to $4 or $5, and I'll be way ahead.

      --
      And the worms ate into his brain.
    9. Re:A real comparison? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 2

      Except that you are stranded for hours while your piece of shit electric recharges.

      My electric car has a range of 240 miles. It can charge to 80% of that in 20 minutes. I have never been "stranded".

      If you regularly drive long distances, then an electric car is not a good choice. They are not for everyone.

    10. Re:A real comparison? by NatasRevol · · Score: 2

      So, 90% of Americans would be fine.

      --
      There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
    11. Re:A real comparison? by Tesen · · Score: 2

      So, 90% of Americans would be fine.

      Bingo! I drive long distances to random hiking trails. An electric car is not for me, considering some of the trail heads can be located at a different GPS location, so exploring for it instead of predictable location is not a must for me. But you know what? A car is a tool and you pick the tool that works for you.

    12. Re:A real comparison? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 3, Insightful

      My gasoline car has a range of 410 miles and it can be refueled in under 5 minutes

      If you regularly drive 400+ miles in one trip, your family only has one car, and it is important that you can refuel in only 5 minutes, rather than taking a 20 minute break after 6 hours of driving, then here is the solution to your problem: DON'T BUY AN ELECTRIC CAR.

      For plenty of other people, electric cars work well.

    13. Re:A real comparison? by whoever57 · · Score: 2

      Don't forget the battery replacement after about 100 K miles at a cost of $3,000. That's what my niece's Prius required.

      Battery technology has improved.There are lots of people whose Prius cars have gone much further on the original battery.

      Also, are you 100% sure it needed a new battery? Like this guy whose Prius battery "failed" and the dealer wanted a similar amount to replace it, but it turned out to be just a dirty connector.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
    14. Re:A real comparison? by rrittenhouse · · Score: 2

      There's exactly two examples of problems with a Tesla in that blog. That's hardly "certified lemons"

      --
      -- I may be paranoid, but I'm still alive
    15. Re:A real comparison? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 2

      They have already let slip that it will be pay as you go. There might be an unlimited option but the code for adding credits is already on their site.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    16. Re:A real comparison? by BostonPilot · · Score: 2

      In what way has the average car lifetime decreased?

      When I was a kid (50 years ago) most cars were end of life at 60-100,000 miles. I can not even imaging an average car from those days going 300,000 miles, and yet if you told me you were driving a 2010 Honda Civic with 300,000 miles I wouldn't be at all surprised. Not saying every Civic goes 300,000 miles, but it's not all that unusual. Cars in the 60s and 70s didn't go 200,000 miles let alone 300,000 miles.

      I'm sure you can point to a few old cars with lots of miles on them, but where I grew up (New England) cars just didn't last that long. Some of that was rust. The first time I travelled to California in 1980 I was blown away to see all the old cars from the 50s and 60s. None of those cars existed in New England because they had all rusted away by then.

      It wasn't just rust though. My dad had been a mechanic as a kid, and he taught me to maintain cars. I've overhauled a couple engines by myself. The component reliability back then just wasn't as good as it is now. Probably a combination of both materials and machining tolerances. If you didn't live in northern states with salt on the roads you could probably keep a car going, but just like today there's a point in the maintenance curve where large numbers of parts simply are worn out, and it gets to be prohibitively expensive to keep fixing the car. Someone else mentioned planned obsolescence, but in my opinion it's not that. It costs money, weight, materials, etc. to design a part with a specific lifetime. Why would you design a component to last 100 years and 1,000,000 miles when you know the rest of the car won't last that long? It's just an engineering tradeoff to determine what the lifetime of the component should be. Back then, nobody worried about making components last much past 100,000 miles. Spark plugs are an easy example, but there are obviously lots more.

      It's certainly true that longevity among manufacturers can be very different. I don't think any manufacturers are as good as Honda and Toyota for reliability and longevity, but even some crappy Chevy is going to last a lot longer today than some crappy Chevy did from the 70s...

  2. How I decide what car to buy... by DogDude · · Score: 5, Funny

    When I'm trying to decide which car I should buy, the first people I look to are billionaires. Since their lifestyles and mine are so similar, and since they're obviously so much smarter than I am, I just assume that their decisions are the correct ones.

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
    1. Re:How I decide what car to buy... by whoever57 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      What's wrong with the Prius?

      It's boring. It doesn't drive smoothly (the transitions between modes are not good -- at least on the gen 2 Prius that I drove).

      Fundamentally, there is nothing wrong with it, but it is not exciting to drive. If your ideal car is merely an appliance that gets you from A to B, then it's OK.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  3. Obvious question? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    And in response to the obvious question, Woz replied "Maybe one Segway would fit. And a seat can be folded down."

    I'm trying to see the obvious here, but all I can come up with is "Do you have any random comments? About the car, life, universe or anything?"

  4. Re:Most from the least by SNRatio · · Score: 2

    For hybrids they don't have to by massive. Volvo tested a 6 kg one in an S60: the extra 80 hp meant a 0-60 time of 5.5 seconds. The flywheels are typically made out of carbon fiber composites that pretty much turn into dust if the vacuum chamber gets busted in an accident, so there isn't much shrapnel.

  5. Electric Cars serve two purposes by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    First, if you've got one in most major cities there's an EV/Carpool lane on the freeways you get to use. So if you've got the scratch for one you can cut your commute in half. Second, a lot of the emissions regulations are based on car companies having/selling a certain amount of low or (in this case) zero emission vehicles. This lets car companies sell gas guzzlers like the Charger/Impala and still meet the regs. The extra cost is (mostly) offset by tax incentives (e.g. you and me paying for it).

    As usual, the most cynical answer is correct. Is there a law for that?

    --
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    1. Re:Electric Cars serve two purposes by pixelpusher220 · · Score: 2

      The carpool exemption is coming to an end. It's a federal rule that ends when the roadway is classified as 'degraded' in traffic flow. I-66 HOV in VA is losing the Hybrid/Electric/Special fuel exemption in 2017.

      --
      People in cars cause accidents....accidents in cars cause people :-D
    2. Re:Electric Cars serve two purposes by whoever57 · · Score: 2

      The carpool exemption is coming to an end. It's a federal rule that ends when the roadway is classified as 'degraded' in traffic flow. I-66 HOV in VA is losing the Hybrid/Electric/Special fuel exemption in 2017.

      In CA, carpool access for pure EVs (and hydrogen vehicles) is guaranteed until early 2019.

      --
      The real "Libtards" are the Libertarians!
  6. Re: Remind me... by ITRambo · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Praise be to those that are wealthy. If we do what they say, we'll be just like them someday.

  7. I wouldn't buy a Tesla by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    I hired a Tesla Model S with Insane mode for a day so I could properly try it out and do all the things one does with a car in normal use. While it does feel like driving a spaceship and is absolutely phenomenal performance-wise, I'm not going to buy one for a number of reasons. Chiefly, the user interface is atrocious and it's impossible to safely do anything with the main screen unless you are pulled over. I also found the rear seats to be very low and hard to get in and out of and Tesla's paint color options are sad.

    I'm looking forward to hiring a Bolt for a day so I can properly try it out as well.

    Ideally, I'd get a Tesla drivetrain in a BMW or Mercedes coach.

  8. Re:Horrendously Expensive Windshield Wipers by runningduck · · Score: 4, Funny

    The problem with electric cars is that windshield wipers are horrendously expensive to replace. With my previous car windshield wipers were way less than 1% of total maintenance over five years. My Leaf is about to turn 5 years old and windshield wiper replacements 75% of my total maintenance costs. This is outrageous!

    --
    -rd
  9. Re: Horrendously Expensive Windshield Wipers by mspohr · · Score: 2

    My windshield wiper blades are 100% of my 38,000 mile Tesla maintenance cost.

    --
    I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
  10. Re:about that "competing" thing... by Mr+D+from+63 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The Tesla may look nicer, but the Bolt's body style looks a lot more functional and space efficient.

    As far as Tesla quality, we really don't know what they will deliver when mass producing a much cheaper vehicle. And from what I've read on some financial reviews, there is a good chance that the Tesla will cost more than initially suggested.

  11. Re: What's the obvious question, is he going to di by NatasRevol · · Score: 2

    Last picture I saw, he was well over 50 lbs beyond obese.

    I'm 6'2", 250. Nobody has ever called me fat. Yet my BMI is 31, so I'm obese. Unless he's lost weight recently, he's well beyond me. 100+lbs

    --
    There are two types of people in the world: Those who crave closure
  12. Re:Horrendously Expensive Windshield Wipers by Dan+East · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Obviously you're being facetious, as the Leaf uses tires like any other car. It also has regular pneumatic brakes too, although with regenerative braking you shouldn't go through pads very fast unless you brake really hard a lot.

    --
    Better known as 318230.
  13. Re: no tks, we'll keep our '15 VW TDI SportWagen by mspohr · · Score: 2

    VW diesel has high NOx emissions. Lung damage and brain damage.
    The fix will have higher CO2 emissions. Climate change.
    It's bad either way. These cars need to be crushed.

    --
    I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
  14. Re:Horrendously Expensive Windshield Wipers by Mal-2 · · Score: 2

    Pneumatic brakes? Those are for buses and other heavy vehicles. I think you mean hydraulic.

    --
    How is the Riemann zeta function like Trump rallies? Both have an endless number of trivial zeros.