Slashdot Mirror
'Unpatent' Begins Crowdfunding Challenges To Bad Patents (unpatent.co)
"Unpatent is a crowdfunding platform that eliminates bad patents," reads their web site. "We do that by crowdsourcing the prior art -- that is all the evidence that makes clear that a patent was not novel -- and filing reexamination requests to the patent office." An anonymous Slashdot reader reports:
"Everyone in the world can back the crowdfunding campaign against the patent," explains their site, which includes a special section with "Featured stupid patents". The first $16,000 raised covers the lawyers and fees at the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office, and "The rest is distributed to those who find valid prior art...any evidence that a patent is not novel. We review all the prior art pieces and reward those that may invalidate a claim... Then, we file an ex partes reexamination to the USPTO."
Their team includes Lee Cheng, the legal officer at Newegg, "worldwide renowned as the patent trolls' nightmare," as well as Lus Cuende, who created his own Linux distro when he was 15 and is now CTO of Stampery, a company using the Bitcoin blockchain to notarize data.
They're currently targeting the infamous US8738435 covering "personalized content relating to offered products and services," which in February the EFF featured as their "stupid patent of the month." Its page on Unpatent.co argues that "Taking something so obvious such as personalizing content and offers...and writing the word online everywhere shouldn't grant you a monopoly over it." Unpatent's slogan? "We invalidate patents that shouldn't exist."
Their team includes Lee Cheng, the legal officer at Newegg, "worldwide renowned as the patent trolls' nightmare," as well as Lus Cuende, who created his own Linux distro when he was 15 and is now CTO of Stampery, a company using the Bitcoin blockchain to notarize data.
They're currently targeting the infamous US8738435 covering "personalized content relating to offered products and services," which in February the EFF featured as their "stupid patent of the month." Its page on Unpatent.co argues that "Taking something so obvious such as personalizing content and offers...and writing the word online everywhere shouldn't grant you a monopoly over it." Unpatent's slogan? "We invalidate patents that shouldn't exist."
There goes my patent on [a-z0-9]*
The problem is that the patent system is broken. You are just treating the symptoms, not curing the disease. You are making the lawyers lot of money though I guess, which is probably why the Newegg lawyer thought of this brilliant idea.
If this is implemented well it could help society a great deal. Another answer to the previous techies helping the world post. If implemented poorly it'll just disappear and no one will give it much thought.
Filing patents has both non-zero cost, and non-zero latency.
You need to make a patent that is good enough to make it past the USPTO (which is harder than people think), spend money on the filing, and hope this program is still around in 2 years when your patent is actually approved. In the grand scheme of things if you can actually write a good patent you can almost certainly make better money by just using that skill to write patents.
Not self sustainable.
To challenge the copyright cartels, the kind of rights holding group you envision needs to charge a simple one-off use fee if you intend to use the owned property to create a derivative work, to obtain a suitable license. That fee money is used to purchase additional properties that should be in the public domain.
As long as the fee is minimal (say, 10$, to make as many derivative works as you want), and retains some level of viral permanence (derivative works are given reciprocity for the group to be given authority to charge for additional licensing for people wanting to make yet more derivative works with both groups agreeing that neither has full control over the work, and thus neither party is able to create an exclusivity agreement to the works covered--EG, all agreements are inclusive, not exclusive) it would do a great job of assuring low cost licensing of properties, while keeping the likes of Disney from turning it into yet another Princess Powergrab for 170 years.
Such an org would need to have a very hard-lined, and restrictive charter to prevent it morphing into the MPAA on cocaine and crack though. (EG, even its own lawyers would be legally disbarred from trying to change its mission.)
Expect the MPAA, RIAA, and assorted vermin to rail against the very notion of such an org, in much the same way that Microsoft railed against the viral nature of the GPL though.
... and hope this program is still around in 2 years when your patent is actually approved.
Two years if you're lucky.
Agreed, this is what Slashdotters have been saying for over a decade now, but still there is no political apetite from either side of politics in just about all western countries from actually addressing this at the cause.
Meanwhile patent wars are being fought all over the world hurting consumers world wide because at the end of the day they are the ones that are paying for this nonsense. At least there is someone out there trying to fix something. Yes it's like pissing into the ocean but if a few stupid patents get squashed that's still better than none.
Make SELinux enforcing again!
All patents are bad patents. The ownership of ideas is immoral and should be abolished.
There is one fact which is rarely pointed out when discussing patent trolls, but I think it's important.
Over 80% of all patent suits are filed by just four trolls.
Obviously some patent litigation has to do with legitimate disputes, so those four trolls do probably 95% of the trolling. If you put those four out business, that takes care of 95% of the problem. It also shows other potential trolls that trolls end up broke.
The people behind this initiative don't just yip yap about patents on Slashdot for a few minutes, they are professionals who have actually fought these trolls. They understand the problem better than you or I do. If they think this approach will help put the four major trolls out of business, they're probably right.
good enough to make it past the USPTO (which is harder than people think)
Which in itself is part of the problem, though Slashdotters would rather just whine about the Big Bad Gubmint.
It's traditionally been, and remains to be, difficult to get a patent. As a result, patent law is structured such that once a patent is approved, it's almost certainly some kind of groundbreaking new technology. Then if someone else end up with the same technology, they must certainly have copied the patent, and it's effectively the burden of the defendant to show that their design process excluded the duplicated patent, effectively requiring proving a negative and undermining the public good for which the patent system was created. In essence, the patent system is assumed to be infallible, so its failures have a significant impact.
I've put some consideration into a system in which the first step in any patent lawsuit is a mandatory reevaluation of the patent claims, paid for by the USPTO (and amortized into filing fees), and waivable if the reevaluation was done recently enough to remain relevant to current societal standards. Part of that evaluation would weigh whether the patent is really a specific application, or a new technology that will have wide use. In essence, once a patent is granted, it's only partially valuable until it's been tested in court, and its value as a commodity (especially for trade between NPEs) depends significantly on the likelihood of the patent to stand up to a fresh examination. On the other hand, a novel patent with specific demonstrable products would be more likely to survive a trial, so it would be more valuable to investors interested in creating products.
You do not have a moral or legal right to do absolutely anything you want.
All your online activity is tracked. If you don't think so, you are misinformed.
Except that an engineer can (and they often do) make actionable plans for technology that they themselves could never fund. By filing a patent they ensure that they are able to shop for partners with less fear of some corporate behemoth stealing the idea and taking it to market while leaving the inventor shit out of luck.
There are already statistics that show some applicant/lawyer teams especially able to are able to push questionable patents thru the system.
Similar story for which districts to sue folks.
I wonder if there are any statistics as to which patent examiners approve which patents.
Perhaps the system forces some examiners to work in fields they shouldn't.
Such statistics might make it easier to raise a systemic challenge instead of slogging it out patent by patent or claim by claim.
On the other hand, the patent office is really vulnerable here, and they might respond in the short term by digging in their heels instead of looking at the actual merits with the eyes of someone who has a clue like the should always have done.
Mechanical devices should be an easy target. Let's start there.
Gears and levers already exist and are already capable of doing the operations they can be assembled to do. Fixed!
Next up, let's invalidate all of the "X, but with Y" patents. Travel was already possible without airplanes, therefore airplanes were not novel. Fixed!
That's two huge classes of patents made invalid by very simple, very irrefutable logic. Tackle those first, and you'll take the funding away from the trolls and they won't be able to fight.
Ftfy.
Just because gears exist doesn't mean it's impossible to invent a something new which uses gears in a useful new way. Just because computers exist doesn't mean it's impossible to invent something new which uses computers in a useful new way.
Further, it's obvious that the exact same device can be made of steel or aluminum. Switching from one metal to anothet doesn't make it a different device. Less obvious is that anything which can be built into software by a compiler can also be built as hardware. The most popular programming language of all time is C. Most often a C program is compiled as software, but C can also be burned as hardware. The exact same source code, the exact same definition of same machine, expressed as either physical devices or expressed on spinning rust. The distinction you wish to make between hardware and software simply doesn't exist.
Over 80% of all patent suits are filed by just four trolls.
Interesting. Can you please list them?
Nike Free Running Adidas Beckenbauer Trainers are among the best selling retro Adidas trainers that were launched in. At that time they were used as training shoes but now they are worn as all-purpose football shoes. These black and gold shoes are a classic that can be worn any time of the year. Adidas Spezial Trainers that were introduced in 1979 look exceptionally good with jeans. These shoes are sported by world best players and come in three colours. The ones in navy blue and sky blue combination are the most sought after. The Adidas Gazelle is one trainer that most Adidas fans have in their wardrobe. Extra padding around the ankle make them comfortable and its suede upper comes in various colours with stripes. These shoes are ideal for those who love to wear comfortable retro shoes. The most popular Gazelle are the ones with a black suede upper and white stripes as they seem to be best sellers.Adidas Samba trainers came out in 1962 and were originally made for frozen pitches or hard surfaces. Samba trainers feature a suede upper that gives it a retro touch. Now popular worldwide, this shoe has become a timeless street classic. You can find them in many colour combinations like chalk white/royal blue and collegiate gold. The shoe has check lining and white stripes on royal blue leather. This iconic sports shoe is a best seller and will be in fashion always. A distinguishing feature of this shoe is the tan gum sole that is featured around the edge of the shoe. These are must buy for fashionistas and soccer fans; many sports stars and celebrities wear these retro Adidas trainers.
"Notarize"
"have (the signature on a document) attested to by a notary."
To notarize something, usually by a solicitor, is to say that that something existed, was seen, what the content of it was, and prove that it existed. You notarize things like contracts and wills and things like that, but there's no reason you can't notarize data itself.
Using the Bitcoin blockchain you would be able to provide proof of the time/date of that notarization, what was notarized and by whom, with virtually-certainty that in the future that proof will still be around and intact and provably unfalsified (i.e. people can't tamper with it to make it look like you signed a different document yesterday, etc.) and you could even provide proof of WHO you were by being in possession of the private wallet associated with the transactions that provide the proof in the blockchain.
In the same way that we will know Satoshi (the inventor of Bitcoin) if he ever reveals himself, because only he would have the ability to make transactions from his original wallet (which address is well-known but nobody else can fake).
Which is probably why that guy that CLAIMED to be Satoshi has been very quiet the last few months because he actually WASN'T able to demonstrate a transaction from one of the original wallets.
[ Sorry in advance for the stupid l33t spelling, but the lameness filter won't let me write the word tr0ll.]
I wonder about "patent tr0lls". The inventor patents Invention X, then wants to monetize their invention. They can build a business (slow and risky) or they can sell their patent to someone else, such as a manufacturer, in exchange for money. Whether or not they get a lot of money or a little money is not important; what is important is that they agreed to the sale. The patent now belongs to Company Y. Company Y makes a warehouse full of Xs, but realizes they aren't selling. They now own a warehouse of valueless junk, plus the rights to X. They need money, so they sell the rights to X to "Patent Tr0ll Z". Again, the amount isn't important as long as they voluntarily agreed to the sale.
So now Z has no boxes of X, no real way to make more Xs, but they have the patent and want to monetize it. Companies A, B, and C start making widgets W, which have a tiny little sliver of concept that coincides with patent X. Tr0ll Z recognizes the concept and sues them. They invested in patent X in order to make money. They did not steal the patent from the inventor. They did not steal products from the warehouse of company Y. So why are the patent tr0lls evil in all of this?
If the tr0lls were stealing innovations, or tricking people into surrendering their rights, then they'd be guilty of fraud. But when everyone involved in the invention agreed to the terms of the sale of the rights, it seems like a legitimate way to execute a business transaction. They may be sleazy and undercut inventors or manufacturers, but those are all governed by contracts, voluntarily entered into by all parties. So I'm asking: what are the tr0lls doing that is unethical?
John
The Constitution says:
"The Congress shall have Power ...
To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts, by securing for limited Times to Authors and Inventors the exclusive Right to their respective Writings and Discoveries;"
The patent system as it is constituted does the exact reverse. It does not "promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts" but instead *impedes* the "Progress of Science and useful Arts". If someone brought a case to the Supreme Court, perhaps they would have a chance to declare it unconstitutional and force Congress into a rational system that indeed promotes science.
Actually, I think the main reason they're considered evil is because their behavior is fundamentally a legal form of extortion--it would be like if I started claiming you trespassed on my property...because your shadow happened to possibly cross just slightly into it, maybe. These are not companies that in their behavior can be distinguished from Investment Company Q which will actively do things like try to find a company to license the patent out to, or offer Companies A, B and C a chance to license X because it's actually better for the job than widget W.
This is in fact quite possible and has happened. Sometimes the reason X didn't sell in the first place has been as simple as Company Y not knowing how to sell it. Occasionally, this is a systemic and endemic problem for Company Y, and the patent ends up being sold off by Company Y's creditors who just want all of Company Y's remains sold after Y experienced the fate of any company that couldn't even sell water in a desert.
The thing that distinguishes Z from Investment Company Q? Q is making an effort ahead of time to make money off of Invention X. Z is just going to sit on the patent and wait until it can sue somebody claiming infringement, and tend to hope to get paid to just go away. As long as they figure it's cheaper for them to get bought off...
Given access to the pixels in a bit-mapped character, how would you blink a cursor? You'd XOR the pixels in the cursor. It's trivial. Give a kid access to the logical operations available on 8-bit microprocessors and she'll probably reinvent this within a week. But cadtrack was granted U.S. Patent 4,197,590. They filed a lawsuit against Commodore computers. A US judge filed an injunction against Commodore blocking its sale of the Amiga CD32. This cemented Microsoft's virtual monopoly on desktop computers, setting back the PC industry a decade. (Amiga had unix-like pre-emptive multi-tasking, Windows 95 color windowed desktop, multimedia capabilities, stereo sound, built in speech synthesizer.. in 1985 when you were still looking at the A:\> prompt and that ugly green blinking cursor.)
If I could get a tax break for donating to challenge patents I'd be really all for it. Could they get 501(c)(3) status?
I agree there are perfectly reasonable and legitimate reasons to sell a patent, and for the buyer to license it.
The few companies who file the vast majority of patent suits (the trolls) are characterized by attempting to retroactively license questionable patents and engaging in various forms of generally predatory conduct in so doing. This combination of factors has a siginificant subjective element, you know when someone is being a slimeball even though you can't establish a rigorous definition of "slimeball".
Because it's tough to define "patent troll" in a rigorous way that excludes legitimate licensing, I think it's helpful to look at the actual behavior of the four problem companies, their actual business models, and figure out how to go after the four existing trolls. That doesn't require a rigorous, legalistic definition of "trolling", you simply figure out how to stop those four specific entities.
Its a bit like how an insurance company works. For every person wanting to make a derivative work, there is a subtle risk that somewhere in the chain there will be litigation. This small fee helps cover that, and provides the slush to protect the properties it manages licensing for.
I noticed that a couple of the patents featured on the site are listed as expired? Can someone explain why there's a point to invalidating expired patents? Doesn't the expiration effectively place that invention into the public domain?
> Not worth the cost to build and store it in the USPTO? Then its not worthy of government force backed patent protection.
A *PGA costs several dollars. The patent process costs several thousand dollars. Burning a PGA wouldn't change the cost of the patent at all.
> It's not a big deal, so you should give in to me.
It's not so much "giving in to you" as rolling my eyes at you.
I know, make them send a self-addressed, stamped envelope too, that'll fix the greedy bastards. â--"Ìâ--" You have some strong opinions, undiluted by any understanding of facts. That, by itself, is nothing bad. I once knew no facts at all! I didn't even know mybown name. When people gave me the facts, I -learned-. One can choose to learn, or one can choose to stubbornly defend ignorance against the full assault of knowledge.
Btw, care to cite where ANYONE, much less me, objected to burning a PGA? Pretty sure I never did.
Ideas cannot be patented.
Novel and useful implementations of ideas can be patented.
Patents are -not- to protect your ownership of an idea, or to help you make lots of money.
Patents are to encourage people to -disclose- ideas so that they may be recorded and not lost, as happened many times in history (and before).
And it is part of the reason the U.S. (and now others) has advanced so far, so fast.
The normal way is to keep things a trade secret, which is great for the inventor but -not- so great for the nation or for humanity.
But a way to record prior art, that was never patented, would make things work much better! 8-)
It appears to be tied to a word count. I think that if I had cut back to one instance of the T-word, it would have been fine.
But it appears to be following the same pattern as any authoritarian's response to criticism: whether it be Chinese citizens talking about Falun Gong, or slashdotters complaining about trolls, those in charge trot out the Great Firewall and censor them.
John
When they learn to create a web site that works without Javascript loaded from a dozen external domains, I'll be glad to take a look.
Lordy, but I'm tired of web developers who don't create POSH sites that degrade gracefully when scripting is disabled. For a handful of RIAs that's understandable - they can't do anything useful without scripting - but for everyone else it's inexcusable laziness.