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Indonesia Wants To Criminalize Memes (dailydot.com)
While the United States has the First Amendment to justify the spread of memes that may ridicule political figures for example, the Indonesian government doesn't. In fact, it is looking to criminalize internet users for posting memes. The Daily Dot reports via Jakarta Post: Its Electronic Information and Transactions Law (ITE) punishes any electronic media communication that incites fear or embarrassment under its defamation article. The public has continuously called for the article's removal, but instead Indonesia is introducing more restrictions to freedom of expression. Posting memes, texts, pictures, or videos would be punishable if found to have a defamatory or slanderous tone. According to the Indonesian government, this provision stands to prevent and control cyberbullying. But it can further be used as a political tool against opposition during elections. Since its implementation in 2008, 200 people have been prosecuted according to data from the Southeast Asia Freedom of Expression Network. Among the most notable cases, was the prosecution of Prita Mulyasari in 2009 for complaining about Omni International Hospital services on an online mailing list.
Indonesia would be better off with Scientology.
Stupid is as stupid does. Someone should make a meme pointing out how stupid Indonesia is.
Something like this, this or this
--
A downvote is NOT I disagree.
The majority (~87%) are Muslim. This is not a coincidence.
People will just find new, creative ways to overcome the censorship.
And there's also that thing called safety in numbers. Can't jail half of the population for reposting funny images.
Perhaps Indonesia runs off with some creative legislation some would frown upon they would wish to make the rule of law the finite authority above religion first...
A 'singular oddity' is an event that cannot be explained and only happens when you are alone.
Fuck FL, Fuck SC and FUCK PUTIN. This msg brought to u by FUCK stupid nation states.
What's more ridiculous, memes being "speech" in Indonesia or money being "speech" in America?
We're about to get this too. Can't let a feeling be hurt, can we?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
is a meme.
A meme is any discrete unit of culture. Good luck banning that, idiots.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
According to the Indonesian government, this provision stands to prevent and control cyberbullying.
Apparently only government controlled cyber bullying is allowed.
Moo you cows.
(obligatory meme ;)
This deplorable lack of self-confidence is common in Muslim countries. In the West we think it's laughable, but it goes to such extremes where bloggers are targeted and killed - see Bangladesh, for instance.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
It's just a more blunt version of what the American left is pushing under the guise of punishing "harassment" and "triggering" language. Exhibit A, the behavior of Twitter where constantly referencing a left wing user is considered punishable speech, but doxxing and threatening the "right" teenage girl with rape and murder will never land you in trouble.
And that's just social media. Students are getting expelled from universities left and right for simply expressing their opinions. Many of them, in the context of classroom discussions.
What Indonesia is doing is just a more open and raw version of that. They have no culture of freedom of speech. Our culture is collapsing because of all of the pedants and obnoxious creeps who feel the need to constantly interject "the first amendment does not protect you from private consequences" (thanks for the clarification poindexter). Because a culture of free speech cannot survive such minimalism. It is only a matter of time before people demand that the political and legal systems conform to the popular understanding and culture surrounding the limits of speech.
Its Electronic Information and Transactions Law (ITE) punishes any electronic media communication that incites fear or embarrassment under its defamation article ... Posting memes, texts, pictures, or videos would be punishable if found to have a defamatory or slanderous tone.
Right, so it's not banning memes at all, it's banning slander. The fact you can post slander in the form of a dank meme is not the same as banning memes.
In soviet India, meme criminalizes you!
Indonesia is muslim what do you people expect ?
A screencap from Lord of the Rings with something stupid written over it is not a "meme". A meme is something like Godwin's Law.
I'm so tired of hearing this bone-headed phrase repeated by people who haven't taken two seconds to think it through. 100% freedom would mean allowing arson, rape, murder and a thousand other behaviors that we currently ban. You want to go back to prehistoric caveman days? Because that's the only time when that sort of freedom existed.
In order for society to work, you have to recognize the rights of other people and their rights limit your freedom to do whatever you want. We accept lots of limitations on our freedom with the understanding that the other people around us accept those same limitations. The end result is what we call civilization.
Call me ignorant (and maybe somebody will), but my running impression of Indonesia is that of a semi-authoritarian government with a lot of laws controlling political speech and behavior in addition to probably enshrining majority religious beliefs in law.
In this context, the law seems entirely expected. The political hegemony wants to control them because they pose a political control risk, the religious leadership is probably eager to back anything that reinforces the ability to enforce religious power via civil law enforcement, and possibly a few sane, liberal/democracy minded people support it as a way to tamp down on political bosses using meme-speech to whip the unwashed mobs into a frenzy.
In the end, the forces of authoritarianism will have one more justification for going after speech contrary to the political goals of the authorities.
It's not news anymore than a report that it rained again in the rain forest.
And Yahoo will scan your emails to help no doubt! Let no meme go unpunished!
In Thailand, one man sent a comedy video mocking the coup leader Prayuth to another person on Line (a messaging app), and he is in jail now, facing a 5 year prison sentence.
The first amendment doesn't "justify" our freedom of speech. It forbids the government from interfering with it. Freedom doesn't require justification.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
Except what you call "rights" doesn't mean what you think it means. Your interpretation is just tyranny of the majority.
How will people in Indonesia know if their cat wants a cheeseburger or not?
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
"Meme" is a word for the carrying of information, in the concept that information can spread and mutate, in analogy to genes carrying genetic information.
What they're talking about criminalizing is photosnarks.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
You are conflating the two definitions of meme. Richard Dawkins coined the term meme to refer to what you just stated... but the newer definition is (and what the posts are talking about) are the more contemporary uses of meme images, generally referred to as "memes"
That's why I call the other one-- typically a picture with a short sarcastic caption-- a photosnark.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
Freedom either is 100% or is not. Freedom at 99.99% is not freedom.
Not at all. You can be more or less free.
I detest all these idiotic absolutist concepts, that divide everything into absolute categories. By eliminating all gradiations, you end up lumping everything together. "In Connecticut you can get a ticket for littering if you drop a cigarette butt on the ground, therefore Connecticut is just as bad as Nazi Germany, they're both authoritarian states."
No. There are shades of difference.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
First they came for the Harambe, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a handsome gorilla.
Then they came for the most interesting man in the world, and I did not speak out—
Because when I do, I do it silently.
Then they came for nutsack squirrel, and I did not speak out—
Because I did not have big nutz.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
-Mustard Man
âoeWho knew something as harmless as willful ignorance could end up having real consequences?â
Than an Indonesian meme has no spoon.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
But I do love visiting to get some preteen pussy when I have a convention to attend somewhere in the orient.
See what I mean? You cannot really have free speech...
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
Free speech is not free action, in my language at least.
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
Good thing ICANN is still under the control of a country that respects free speach. I would hate to see a country like Indonesia have any say over Internet censorship.
What the fuck ?!
Help! I am a self-aware entity trapped in an abstract function!
n/t
Have gnu, will travel.
A million dollars to whoever stabs aglider first. Just saying.
I detest all these idiotic absolutist concepts
All of them?
Have gnu, will travel.
Wrong.
Not arson, rape, murder. But rape murder arson and rape
Stupid is as stupid does. Someone should make a meme pointing out how stupid Indonesia is.
The more of these the better. The world should ruthlessly ridicule the Indonesian government, which is unable to take a dose of critical humor, and clearly will do anything to prevent their people from thinking.
Admittedly being pedantic, but: The definition of "meme" has really been bastardized by the existence of stupid Facebook photos with humorous text in them.
A meme-- quoting wikipedia-- will "self-replicate, mutate, and respond to selective pressures." An example of an *actual* meme is that of God. God is, essentially, a human idea that has quite successfully survived thousands and thousands of years. It self-replicates through the fear or imagination of human beings who pass dogma to their offspring, mutates through different flavors of those dogmas, and responds to the culture of the times in an often populist way to ensure the continued acceptance of it.
So, while controlling "memes" in the bastardized Facebook definition context could be *somewhat* enforceable, controlling *actual* memes-- long-held self-evolving humanity-wide ideas-- would be impossible. In fact, the notion of trying to prohibit the FB memes perpetuates the age-old meme of distrusting authority.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
I recommend reading a bit about memes; memetic theory is enlightening in the context of propaganda, mass media, etc. I often think about this theory when folks pointedly or emotionally ask, "How the hell could you believe that?" This book is pretty good: https://www.amazon.com/Virus-M...
...only criminals will have cat videos!
That might not be so easy...
Unenforcable law is unenforcable.. except within their own borders, of course. What do they think they're going to do, have people extradited to their country because they posted an anti-Indonesia meme or comment somewhere? LOL.
Well there actually is freedom to arson, rape, and murder. There's nothing stopping you except mental barriers.
The state, the police, the law, won't magically detect what you aim to do before it's too late unless you advertise yourself.
Some magical hand from the sky appearing to stop you, or some magical cuffs forming from the air, won't happen.
All this civilization and law shit only exists to act after the fact, it can't do shit about the act itself happening. Some minimal mental deterrence at best.
But anyhow, 100% freedom exists everywhere in the world. The only question is the consequences after the act and how well you covered yourself up. Contrary to stupid TV enthusiasts who watch too much NCIX and all that baloney, the amount of unsolved criminal cases outweigh solved ones, albeit it's never a good thing to make this obvious and known to the public.
Civilization doesn't exist. Only the idea and outer appearance does. It's just a cover and nothing else.
good luck with that
I read TFS title as "...criminalize mimes"
So naturally, I figured that they had a problem with players of Twisted Metal.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
100% freedom would mean allowing arson, rape, murder and a thousand other behaviors that we currently ban.
Who said anything about wanting any of that stuff? Freedom of speech, however, should be unlimited and without exception.
Muslim country has Muslim laws, news at 11.
Nothing to see here people, move along.
You don't mind then if I put some speakers under your bed playing my trash metal band songs, blowing at 200â... volume? You won't do anything to limit this expression of my speech, right?
Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
That should be 200%, dammit.
Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
I detest all these idiotic absolutist concepts
All of them?
Absolutely!
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
"By eliminating all gradiations, you end up lumping everything together."
But by not allowing us to lump things together, debate and discussion is so much harder. It's much easier to win, or at least seem to win, and argument when I can say you are just like Hitler. You're going to turn the country into a Nazi state, because you're doing what the Nazis did. Your entire religion is bad because some of the people that follow it are bad.
Having a civil conversation about things is so much more difficult than calling names and comparing your opponent to to some extreme.
Honestly, politics is at the leading edge of the frontier of name calling, marginalization, gross exaggeration and how it can much more easily get you what you want. We should all watch and learn. And if you disagree, you're probably a nazi.
Note: freedom of speech is not the same as freedom from the consequences of speech.
-You can still be punched in the face for mouthing off to the wrong person.
Too late, the Indonesia government is already an embarrassment. Anything they public automatically is criminal embarrassment.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
http://sitedosmenes.tumblr.com...
This was all foreseen in the Bible of Kek: many new fronts will open in the Great Meme Wars. Ultimately, the new gods of Islam and Christianity will not be able to withstand Lord Kek when he comes into his fullest power, but we must keep making memes and invoking his Avatar Pepe to build his meme magic. Praise Kek!
A million dollars to whoever stabs aglider first. Just saying.
That's not speech - that's a call to "Imminent lawless action".
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imminent_lawless_action
This is verging on click bait.
"Indonesia wants to criminalize political parody" would be better. I would have some insight about what the TFS is about.
Include the word "memes" too if you want, it's a real word with a real meaning, but it's just insufficient in this case.
I don't think we're talking about "I can haz cheeseburgers?â here.
Edit (typos)
/Sigh/, while I'm up on my soapbox, posting to slashdot on mobile still sucks, since there's no edit/delete can we *please *have preview capability?
Buzzwords no substitute for an accurate summary
This is verging on click bait.
"Indonesia wants to criminalize political parody" would be better. I would have some insight about what the TFS is about.
Include the word "memes" too if you want, it's a real word with a real meaning, but it's just insufficient in this case.
I don't think we're talking about "I can haz cheeseburgers?" here.
i find it scary when a government is so afraid of criticism that it criminalizes it. if someone says "the government is arresting / murdering minority groups", then they're either demonstrably wrong - in which case it should be easy to prove that the government isn't killing them - or they're right, in which case they have to face up to it.
and then, probably, sneer, "what are you going to do about it?"
and isn't Islam a meme?