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Indonesia Wants To Criminalize Memes (dailydot.com)
While the United States has the First Amendment to justify the spread of memes that may ridicule political figures for example, the Indonesian government doesn't. In fact, it is looking to criminalize internet users for posting memes. The Daily Dot reports via Jakarta Post: Its Electronic Information and Transactions Law (ITE) punishes any electronic media communication that incites fear or embarrassment under its defamation article. The public has continuously called for the article's removal, but instead Indonesia is introducing more restrictions to freedom of expression. Posting memes, texts, pictures, or videos would be punishable if found to have a defamatory or slanderous tone. According to the Indonesian government, this provision stands to prevent and control cyberbullying. But it can further be used as a political tool against opposition during elections. Since its implementation in 2008, 200 people have been prosecuted according to data from the Southeast Asia Freedom of Expression Network. Among the most notable cases, was the prosecution of Prita Mulyasari in 2009 for complaining about Omni International Hospital services on an online mailing list.
Stupid is as stupid does. Someone should make a meme pointing out how stupid Indonesia is.
Something like this, this or this
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A downvote is NOT I disagree.
The majority (~87%) are Muslim. This is not a coincidence.
Perhaps Indonesia runs off with some creative legislation some would frown upon they would wish to make the rule of law the finite authority above religion first...
A 'singular oddity' is an event that cannot be explained and only happens when you are alone.
What's more ridiculous, memes being "speech" in Indonesia or money being "speech" in America?
We're about to get this too. Can't let a feeling be hurt, can we?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
is a meme.
A meme is any discrete unit of culture. Good luck banning that, idiots.
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
According to the Indonesian government, this provision stands to prevent and control cyberbullying.
Apparently only government controlled cyber bullying is allowed.
It seems to be working just fine in China.
This deplorable lack of self-confidence is common in Muslim countries. In the West we think it's laughable, but it goes to such extremes where bloggers are targeted and killed - see Bangladesh, for instance.
"The agriculture ministry is not in charge of Gundam" - Japanese ministry official.
That seems a bit half-hearted. Tough day? Can't muster up enthusiasm for the whole cows moo thing today? :-/
I do not want your cheap brainburning drugs. They are useless for work. And I am a working man today.
It's just a more blunt version of what the American left is pushing under the guise of punishing "harassment" and "triggering" language. Exhibit A, the behavior of Twitter where constantly referencing a left wing user is considered punishable speech, but doxxing and threatening the "right" teenage girl with rape and murder will never land you in trouble.
And that's just social media. Students are getting expelled from universities left and right for simply expressing their opinions. Many of them, in the context of classroom discussions.
What Indonesia is doing is just a more open and raw version of that. They have no culture of freedom of speech. Our culture is collapsing because of all of the pedants and obnoxious creeps who feel the need to constantly interject "the first amendment does not protect you from private consequences" (thanks for the clarification poindexter). Because a culture of free speech cannot survive such minimalism. It is only a matter of time before people demand that the political and legal systems conform to the popular understanding and culture surrounding the limits of speech.
Its Electronic Information and Transactions Law (ITE) punishes any electronic media communication that incites fear or embarrassment under its defamation article ... Posting memes, texts, pictures, or videos would be punishable if found to have a defamatory or slanderous tone.
Right, so it's not banning memes at all, it's banning slander. The fact you can post slander in the form of a dank meme is not the same as banning memes.
In soviet India, meme criminalizes you!
Indonesia is muslim what do you people expect ?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grass_Mud_Horse
I'm so tired of hearing this bone-headed phrase repeated by people who haven't taken two seconds to think it through. 100% freedom would mean allowing arson, rape, murder and a thousand other behaviors that we currently ban. You want to go back to prehistoric caveman days? Because that's the only time when that sort of freedom existed.
In order for society to work, you have to recognize the rights of other people and their rights limit your freedom to do whatever you want. We accept lots of limitations on our freedom with the understanding that the other people around us accept those same limitations. The end result is what we call civilization.
He needs to be careful not to milk that meme too much. Indonesia has the death penalty. The steaks are too high.
Human Rights, Article 12: Freedom from Interference with Privacy, Family, Home and Correspondence
Call me ignorant (and maybe somebody will), but my running impression of Indonesia is that of a semi-authoritarian government with a lot of laws controlling political speech and behavior in addition to probably enshrining majority religious beliefs in law.
In this context, the law seems entirely expected. The political hegemony wants to control them because they pose a political control risk, the religious leadership is probably eager to back anything that reinforces the ability to enforce religious power via civil law enforcement, and possibly a few sane, liberal/democracy minded people support it as a way to tamp down on political bosses using meme-speech to whip the unwashed mobs into a frenzy.
In the end, the forces of authoritarianism will have one more justification for going after speech contrary to the political goals of the authorities.
It's not news anymore than a report that it rained again in the rain forest.
The first amendment doesn't "justify" our freedom of speech. It forbids the government from interfering with it. Freedom doesn't require justification.
-jcr
The only title of honor that a tyrant can grant is "Enemy of the State."
How will people in Indonesia know if their cat wants a cheeseburger or not?
"That's the way to do it" - Punch
Freedom either is 100% or is not. Freedom at 99.99% is not freedom.
Not at all. You can be more or less free.
I detest all these idiotic absolutist concepts, that divide everything into absolute categories. By eliminating all gradiations, you end up lumping everything together. "In Connecticut you can get a ticket for littering if you drop a cigarette butt on the ground, therefore Connecticut is just as bad as Nazi Germany, they're both authoritarian states."
No. There are shades of difference.
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
First they came for the Harambe, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a handsome gorilla.
Then they came for the most interesting man in the world, and I did not speak out—
Because when I do, I do it silently.
Then they came for nutsack squirrel, and I did not speak out—
Because I did not have big nutz.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.
-Mustard Man
âoeWho knew something as harmless as willful ignorance could end up having real consequences?â
Than an Indonesian meme has no spoon.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
See what I mean? You cannot really have free speech...
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
Free speech is not free action, in my language at least.
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
Nice try, but that word's never going to stick.
Sometimes the name for the concept becomes the name of a common example. And there's nothing you can do about it now.
As I understand, "meme" was a term for the smallest unit of transmissible information - meaning genetic or otherwise. Blame Dawkins for tying biology to philosophy - he's not the first one to do it. Einstein's theory of relativity is what eventually led to the idea of moral relativism.
Good thing ICANN is still under the control of a country that respects free speach. I would hate to see a country like Indonesia have any say over Internet censorship.
What the fuck ?!
Help! I am a self-aware entity trapped in an abstract function!
n/t
Have gnu, will travel.
A million dollars to whoever stabs aglider first. Just saying.
I detest all these idiotic absolutist concepts
All of them?
Have gnu, will travel.
A1 posts are that important.
Admittedly being pedantic, but: The definition of "meme" has really been bastardized by the existence of stupid Facebook photos with humorous text in them.
A meme-- quoting wikipedia-- will "self-replicate, mutate, and respond to selective pressures." An example of an *actual* meme is that of God. God is, essentially, a human idea that has quite successfully survived thousands and thousands of years. It self-replicates through the fear or imagination of human beings who pass dogma to their offspring, mutates through different flavors of those dogmas, and responds to the culture of the times in an often populist way to ensure the continued acceptance of it.
So, while controlling "memes" in the bastardized Facebook definition context could be *somewhat* enforceable, controlling *actual* memes-- long-held self-evolving humanity-wide ideas-- would be impossible. In fact, the notion of trying to prohibit the FB memes perpetuates the age-old meme of distrusting authority.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
I recommend reading a bit about memes; memetic theory is enlightening in the context of propaganda, mass media, etc. I often think about this theory when folks pointedly or emotionally ask, "How the hell could you believe that?" This book is pretty good: https://www.amazon.com/Virus-M...
...only criminals will have cat videos!
Unenforcable law is unenforcable.. except within their own borders, of course. What do they think they're going to do, have people extradited to their country because they posted an anti-Indonesia meme or comment somewhere? LOL.
I read TFS title as "...criminalize mimes"
So naturally, I figured that they had a problem with players of Twisted Metal.
I've fallen off your lawn, and I can't get up.
100% freedom would mean allowing arson, rape, murder and a thousand other behaviors that we currently ban.
Who said anything about wanting any of that stuff? Freedom of speech, however, should be unlimited and without exception.
You don't mind then if I put some speakers under your bed playing my trash metal band songs, blowing at 200â... volume? You won't do anything to limit this expression of my speech, right?
Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
That should be 200%, dammit.
Singularity: a belief in the "God" idea with the "demiurge" relation inverted.
I detest all these idiotic absolutist concepts
All of them?
Absolutely!
http://www.geoffreylandis.com
Too late, the Indonesia government is already an embarrassment. Anything they public automatically is criminal embarrassment.
“Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
Lord Xenu must take it as an offense!
Even though I'm not a Scientologist, I would agree. Since Scientology would then replace Islam
http://sitedosmenes.tumblr.com...
Fuck FL, Fuck SC and FUCK PUTIN. This msg brought to u by FUCK stupid nation states.
What exactly do you have against Florida and South Carolina?
This is verging on click bait.
"Indonesia wants to criminalize political parody" would be better. I would have some insight about what the TFS is about.
Include the word "memes" too if you want, it's a real word with a real meaning, but it's just insufficient in this case.
I don't think we're talking about "I can haz cheeseburgers?â here.
Edit (typos)
/Sigh/, while I'm up on my soapbox, posting to slashdot on mobile still sucks, since there's no edit/delete can we *please *have preview capability?
Buzzwords no substitute for an accurate summary
This is verging on click bait.
"Indonesia wants to criminalize political parody" would be better. I would have some insight about what the TFS is about.
Include the word "memes" too if you want, it's a real word with a real meaning, but it's just insufficient in this case.
I don't think we're talking about "I can haz cheeseburgers?" here.
Since you obviously didn't understand Dawkins writing (difficult - he is a very good, clear writer), you missed that he was tying together the biological mechanisms of information transmission and data fidelity to the computing science understanding of the same - genetics being a digital system, after all. Between all the Shannon information, transmission error rates, and energy costs of computation, it may have escaped you, but both computing and genetics are aspects of information science. And Dawkins made a useful contribution to clarifying those intimate links.
Philosophy may have been stuck to the pavement near the publisher's office, but as usual made no useful contribution.
Again, I rather suspect that you've failed to understand Einstein's papers on relativity and need to go back to read them. It might stop you from propagating utter drivel.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"
I think you should look closer. Whether the scientists themselves did it or not, major changes in understanding in science precipitate changes in philosophy and culture with an odd resemblance.
If philosophy comes to a single settled conclusion (e.g., answer the question "what is good?") feel free to wake me up. It hasn't settled anything for millennia, and remains a complete waste of time and lung-power.
Birds are not dinosaur descendants;birds are dinosaurs, for all useful meanings of "birds", "are" and "dinosaurs"