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Comcast Fined $2.3 Million by FCC For 'Negative Option Billing' Practices (arstechnica.com)

An anonymous reader shares an ArsTechnica report:The FCC announced a $2.3 million fine against Comcast on Tuesday after confirming that the company had been billing customers for products and services they had never ordered. After calling the fine "the largest civil penalty assessed from a cable operator by the FCC," the federal agency's announcement detailed exactly how Comcast bilked customers -- and new company practices that must be put into place as a result. According to the FCC's Office of Media Relations, the agency had received "numerous complaints from consumers" about the issue of "negative option billing" -- meaning, receiving charges for items that the customers had never affirmatively requested. (The FCC reminds readers that in the telecom world, this practice is known as "cramming.") The listed complaints revolve specifically around items related to cable TV service, including "premium channels, set-top boxes, and DVRs."

73 of 116 comments (clear)

  1. 2.3M? -- That'll teach them! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    That's pocket change to that company.... They won't change a thing.

    1. Re:2.3M? -- That'll teach them! by jedidiah · · Score: 2, Insightful

      More importantly, it is likely a miniscule amount compared to what they actually stole. So no real consequences for them. Crime does pay.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    2. Re:2.3M? -- That'll teach them! by Penguinisto · · Score: 4, Interesting

      True - wish that "M" was a "B", which would damned sure get their attention...

      Seriously, when a corporation gets over a certain size (in terms of market cap/cash on hand/etc), they really should jack the fines up by at least an order of magnitude, if only to prevent the 'fines are the cost of doing business' tactic.

      Crippling a company that way has a bonus... the CxO suite is no longer praised for jacking value by any means necessary, but instead tarred and feathered (and likely sued into oblivion) by pissed-off shareholders who just saw their investment go to shit overnight.

      --
      Quo usque tandem abutere, Nimbus, patientia nostra?
    3. Re:2.3M? -- That'll teach them! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Exactly. Screw the fine. They should have to refund 2.5x everyone who files a claim with the FCC. Only requirement for people to get a refund is sign under penalty of perjury that they did not request the services.

      And in order to stop further abuses, CEO/other executives must sign under penalty of perjury that their company has stopped this practice and will not do this in the future. If it happens again, executives all get prosecuted for lying under oath. Problem solved.

    4. Re:2.3M? -- That'll teach them! by frovingslosh · · Score: 1

      The government just wants their cut, nothing is going to change. This is basically a go ahead for Comcast to keep cheating their customers. At best it tells them to find more creative ways to cheat the customers.

      --
      I'm an American. I love this country and the freedoms that we used to have.
    5. Re:2.3M? -- That'll teach them! by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

      That's pocket change to that company.... They won't change a thing.

      This fine is pocket change to the federosaurus also. The FDA fined Google half a billion dollars for the crime of letting Canadian pharmacies use its advertising system to give Americans the idea that everybody else in the world pays a fraction of what we do to get their prescriptions filled.. Meanwhile Comcast gets to screw its customers blind for years and pay...$2.3 million?

      That isn't even a slip on the wrist. It's massaging Comcast's wrists at a day spa.

    6. Re:2.3M? -- That'll teach them! by Somebody+Is+Using+My · · Score: 1

      See, I disagree. I think the $2.3million dollar fine is appropriate for the crime, especially since it's basically also a warning that if the company keeps doing that sort of thing they're liable to receive even stiffer penalties. But I'd not really be comfortable with the government grabbing billions of dollars to stuff into their own coffers

      What /isn't/ okay is that Comcast gets to keep its ill-gotten gains. I mean, if I stole something, I wouldn't just get a penalty (fine, jail-time, community service, whatever); I'd have to give up my illegally gained loot as well. So ideally, the fine should also include an order to return the fraudulently billed fees to the customers it bilked, at Comcast's cost and within a specified time period.

      However, I'm not sure that such an order is within the FCC's mandate or power; it probably would require a court order.

    7. Re: 2.3M? -- That'll teach them! by One+With+Whisp · · Score: 1

      I singed up for a service advertised at 39.95 my bill is 52.95 why?

      Simple: fraud.

    8. Re:2.3M? -- That'll teach them! by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      They probably spend that much each year on their executive retreats in Cancun.

    9. Re:2.3M? -- That'll teach them! by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Or they'll spend 2.3 Billion on lobbyists to get the FCC dismantled and replaced with a unregulated market.

  2. They earn that in 16 minutes by Jason+Levine · · Score: 5, Informative

    Comcast had $19.269 billion in revenues last quarter. (Source) This equates to about $211 million per day or $8.8 million per hour. They'll earn back the $2.3 million fine in about 15 minutes and 42 seconds.

    --
    My sci-fi novel, Ghost Thief, is now available from Amazon.com.
    1. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by CaptainLard · · Score: 2

      This is always my first thought whenever I hear "biggest fine ever". A common reaction is jail time for those involved but I think a better deterrent would just be to make the fine something like 50x the profits generated. That way we don't have to pay for an expensive trial (and it will be much more expensive than the fine if an executive is involved) or whatever jail time. Instead, regulatory agencies will finally have sufficient funding to enforce existing rules, victims get a nice payout and those responsible will immediately be fired and toxic in their line of work so they'll never be able to do it again.

    2. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Posting as AC because I'm at work.

      When looking at this in greater detail its even worse than you pointed out. I make about 50k a year, so lets proportion this out to an equivalent number:

      2.3 Million / 19.269 Billion * 50,000 = $5.97

      2 Million sounds big, because to the majority of us it *is* big - but to these large companies that's the same as buying a coffee and doughnut at the Tim Horton's! If this were me I wouldn't care one bit, I'd just pay my six bucks and call it a day. Now if they were hit with an equivalent to a $2,500 fine, which is a common amount for us commoners to pay, I'm betting they'd think twice about pulling these kinds of things because they'd be out 963,450,000.00!

      Of course in today's world where lobbyists have bribed those in power, a fine like that would never fly.

    3. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Revenues are used only by deceptive politicians to describe a business's position. A business with $20 billion of revenues and an 8% profit margin has $1.6 billion of profitability, and that's its real income. Granted, that's still large; but keep your head out of your ass, at least.

      Think about it. If businesses actually paid wages, their bank accounts would run out and they'd fold. A person works in part of a production process to provide a product or service; that person's effort goes into some number of shipped units--say, you work on an assembly line that makes 2,000 TVs per 8 hours, 14.4 seconds of your time goes in. Put all that effort together and you have cost--say, 118 staff in the factory, average $18/hr, that's 0.472 hours or $8.50 per TV.

      So you buy a TV. $8.50 of that TV goes to the factory wages--the income of the line workers, managers, and maintenance staff. The factory buys components from another factory, who gets their source components from a refinery, who buys from a mine; there's energy involved, as well. At each level, the wages are paid out and become income (of workers); therefor, those wages aren't business income--meaning what the factory buys is not part of its income.

      At each level, there's also profit. The factory keeps 10% profit. Each of its suppliers keeps 10% profit, down the line. Total up all the wages involved everywhere, and you've got 90% of the money--that's income. This other 10% is profit. That's ALSO income.

      This is an important concept because taxing wages (and, thus, outsourced expenses) as income means you're raising the cost of a worker. If a $36,000/year worker is paid from revenue *and* you call revenue "income", taxing the business for it, then that $36,000/year worker actually costs $60,000/year (40% business income tax). Why? Because to pay his $36,000 wage *plus* the tax on that wage, you have to collect $60,000, pay 40% in taxes ($24,000), and then give the rest to the worker--who then also pays taxes on it.

      What would that do to the price of goods and services?

      When you assess how much money a business has coming in, you're going to want to look at their profits. Profits tell you what the business is making. Profits are the business's "wage"; the rest is reimbursement for expenses involved in the business doing the job we pay them for.

      Problem: fining the business too much into its profits means raising the costs, thus prices required for operation. That leads to lower consumer spending power, consumer purchase of fewer goods and services, less need for (and market capacity to support) production, and fewer jobs. Fining a business is a useful strategy because they're the first one to feel pain, and they feel it most directly; it has economic consequences. The more robust your market is, the more a fine impacts the business by opening them up to competition--the next firm may outcompete them and cut into their profits, which may cause the fined firm to lose jobs while the competitor grows and produces new jobs. Some people get hurt in the process, about the same number of (partially) other people get lifted out of unemployment, and we get a net zero loss (or at least, we approach a net-zero loss the stronger competition is).

      In short: Fining businesses hurts consumers and creates unemployment as we approach low competition; it has a net-zero effect on consumers and unemployment as we approach robust competition. Robust competition makes fines a more powerful tool for punishing misbehaving businesses, as it reduces the amount of harm done to consumers and workers by the levying of such a fine. The magnitude of impact of a fine is proportional to the business profit, not the business revenue.

    4. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by Nethemas+the+Great · · Score: 4, Insightful

      The more important question that should be being asked is "How much did they make from the practice of cramming?" If the answer is "less than what they were fined"--which it almost certainly is--then they have no motivation to alter their practices. This fine is nothing but whitewash to mollify some grumpy petitioners.

      --
      Two of my imaginary friends reproduced once ... with negative results.
    5. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by ausekilis · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I love to see part of the fine be reimbursing all those effected by this practice. If I can receive a bill (or credit) months after I discontinue service from them, they can certainly send me a check for whatever money they took from me due to this shitty business practice.

      If only the world worked that way... and corporations were actually penalized due to this sort of thing.

    6. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      sorry, but that 8% profit margin is after the fat cats are paid. guess again

    7. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by omnichad · · Score: 2

      If a $36,000/year worker is paid from revenue *and* you call revenue "income", taxing the business for it, then that $36,000/year worker actually costs $60,000/year (40% business income tax). Why? Because to pay his $36,000 wage *plus* the tax on that wage, you have to collect $60,000, pay 40% in taxes ($24,000), and then give the rest to the worker--who then also pays taxes on it.

      The business does not pay taxes on revenue - they pay it on profits. The $36,000/year is an expense and it's not part of the profit and not taxed. The employee, however, will pay tax on their income and lose a certain amount of that money depending on their tax bracket.

      Maybe you said that, maybe you didn't - it's not easy to tell. But in the case of cable companies, they're granted a virtual monopoly in most markets. Cutting deeply into profits means they're still ahead - even the CEO's wage is an expense before profits. Raising prices in response is only to "punish" the economy that fined them and keep their profits the same and reward shareholders (if applicable) for allowing the mismanagement.

    8. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      No, was not referring to taxes nor money to anyone external to the company

    9. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      It should absolutely be punitive. It's downright stupid to give pathetic fines when the profits from the scam were likely to exceed the amount. There is absolutely no disincentive for other companies to stop doing similar practices, possibly even after they're caught.

      My wife had to call Comcast twice for them trying this on her while she was in college. Fortunately she was the one paying the bill and she watched it like a hawk. This was two years ago.

      Given that this practice has been going on for years. Do we honestly believe that they didn't make more than $2.3 million from it? That amount is inherently all profit since the users were inherently not using whatever they were being charged for.

      I am in total agreement that this should be on the order of a $500 million to $1 billion fine. These companies have customers by the balls and overcharge us because they have quite effectively blocked competition in most areas (certainly no cable-versus-cable competition), so this is just the cherry on the top.

    10. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Comcast had $19.269 billion in revenues last quarter... They'll earn back the $2.3 million fine in about 15 minutes and 42 seconds.

      Revenue != Earnings.

    11. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      sorry, but that 8% profit margin is after the fat cats are paid.

      It is after the employees, managers, and bondholders are paid, but before shareholders are paid.

    12. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by Solandri · · Score: 1

      While I agree that this fine seems absurdly small, revenue does not take into account costs incurred while doing business. If your revenue from selling lemonade is $1 a cup, and the materials and labor to make the lemonade cost $0.25/cup, you are only making $0.75 per cup, not $1/cup. A lot of that revenue Comcast took in was probably sent as payment to the premium channel companies.

      Subtracting operating expenses, Comcast had a EBIT of $16 billion in 2015. That works out to $43.8 million/day. And they will make back the fine in 1 hour, 16 minutes.

    13. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      The more important question that should be being asked is "How much did they make from the practice of cramming?"

      And since TFA doesn't answer that question, another question that should be asked is why this journalist shouldn't be fired for incompetence.

    14. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by Mahldcat · · Score: 1

      How they could really make this impactful: The FCC could place down a fine that was (a) Based off a percentage of a companies gross (not revenue) income, (b) Used the last 8 quarters to determine the fine (so they couldn't game things), and (c) Have the actual number for the fine based off the entire year, not just for a quarter (even 3% of the yearly gross) If this were to happen, and at a level in the billions (only in our dreams :( ), I bet they'd change their tune VERY quickly...

    15. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by jedidiah · · Score: 1

      It doesn't matter if it's revenue or profit if it's stolen.

      Alternatively, "income" is the same for everyone regardless of whether you call it "profit" or disposable income in the end.

      --
      A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
    16. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      That was the whole point. Someone wanted to talk about the business's revenue as a measure of how much money it has coming in; revenue isn't income except in an accounting sense. From a tax sense and from the sense of how much money a business is making, profits are income. Using different domains or different concepts to try to make a statement about something is an equivocation fallacy.

    17. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Most business executives are making very little per employee. For example, Michael Cavanagh takes home $262 per employee per year. If all employees were minimum wage, he'd be taking home 1.62% of Comcast's direct wage costs (i.e. $40 million out of $2,219 million); salaries range from $14/hr ($28k) to $140,000/year (software engineers). That means Comcast's CFO takes home far less than 1% of all wages, which itself makes up for only a fraction of Comcast's operating expenses (rent (land, tower, antenna, offices), power, rebroadcast deals, advertising, maintenance, equipment...).

      So the really fat cats represent around 0.2% of the expenses, each. The CEO makes less than the CFO, somehow.

      Also, the cash involved is about $8 million, or $52 per employee; the rest is stock or stock options, which are issued without cost to Comcast, dilute the value of stocks on the market when exercised, and only get paid out based on the securities market performance of the company. That means the impact of Cavanagh's actual salary and bonuses is under 0.045% of Comcast's total expenses, and less than 0.2% of wages.

      By far, the biggest payroll cost to Comcast is non-executive wages.

    18. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      Just a bit of googling shows in 2015 Comcast had revenue of $74.5B and a net income of $16B with $8.9B cash on hand...

      The purpose of a fine that would yield criminal charges were the actions performed by an individual should be to inflict severe pain such that most of the CxO level executives are fired and sued into oblivion by stock holders and make these dirt bags so toxic they never work at the executive level again. Fines should also be doubled or trebled on government sanctioned monopolies. A fine of half of their annual profit, or $8B would eliminate this criminal behavior and have the desired effect. Comcast has no right to exist. If they engage in fraud, they should be fined into oblivion and the pieces bought up by other companies/startups.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    19. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      Actually, in much of the US the judge will take financial hardship into account for most fines, assuming that you are otherwise an upstanding individual. On some occasion, fines of thousands of dollars have been reduced to $50 or even $1. The exception is the IRS, because they are out for blood.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    20. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Measure 97 currently on the fall ballot in Oregon will tax some businesses 2.5% on sales, not profit.

      And until that passes, it's still not the case anywhere. And Oregon has no sales tax. This is a way of sneaking in a sales tax through the back door.

      Four of those are "taxes" by name and are not calculated based on profits but on the expense of paying an employee. They are, indeed, employer-paid taxes on the money paid to employees.

      But these are not income taxes, so don't equate them as such - it has nothing at all to do with the profit of the business, only the amount chosen to pay. That's already accounted for when you pick a hiring wage of $36,000.

      They may have a defacto monopoly, but it was not granted to them, is is based on economic factors.

      Cable? They tend to have exclusivity clauses in their franchise agreements with municipalities. They are more than a defacto monopoly.

    21. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by AnalogDiehard · · Score: 1

      Comcast had $19.269 billion in revenues last quarter. (Source [cmcsa.com]) This equates to about $211 million per day or $8.8 million per hour. They'll earn back the $2.3 million fine in about 15 minutes and 42 seconds.

      Likely the maximum that the FCC can fine the company. The NHTSA is another agency that was hampered with petty maximum fines, until the DoJ stepped in with a wire fraud criminal lawsuit that resulted in far stiffer penalties. "Cramming" could very well constitute wire fraud.

      --
      Eternity: will that be smoking, or non-smoking? I Corinthians 6:9-10
    22. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Yeah, I misread "last quarter" as "last year" from the OP; but the point still stands: net income is the number we're looking for, not revenue. Hollywood aside, revenue is meaningless in this context.

      You seem to have missed my point that a market without robust competition will necessarily lose jobs if one of the few major players in an oligarchy (especially a regional one) gets a big financial hit like a fine. That is to say: robust competition lets you sue a business out of existence and shift the load around before anything bad happens; duopolies and regional monopolies let you sue a business not nearly enough for them to stop laughing at you, but enough that the backswing is a lot of low-income workers getting thrown off into the streets as the business's prices are affected (increased).

      Low-competition markets are essentially poison pills: you attack the businesses, you destroy the lives of the workers.

      We tend to fail to actually make-right. We should probably start there. Comcast should be required to cooperate with an investigation determining its impact on those wronged, and then made to pay them back with interest and penalty. Maybe that turns out to be a laughably-small cost, or maybe it's large and we have to diffuse it over years to prevent the poison-pill from breaking; either way, it's the closest thing to fair we have, and it addresses an actual problem instead of slapping someone hard enough to make us feel good or not hard enough to worry about breaking something.

      The investigation alone would make them shit their pants. Who wants the government looking that closely?

    23. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      You seem to be confusing Comcast with some other business. Comcast is a state sponsored MONOPOLY. Furthermore, it is a utility, meaning most people need the service as a basic function of daily life. The reality is that Comcast could go chapter 7 (bankrupt and its assets sold off) and yes, there would be some churn and turbulence, but those assets would be bought up by investors and we would probably get 6 or more smaller cable TV companies. The net number of employees might go down a little, but not massively, because cable TV/internet is hugely lucrative and stable source of profit and you need those employees to make the business work.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    24. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      People don't need cable TV; a lot of people are ditching cable TV; Satellite TV and Verizon's new TV services are competing; and they don't overlap in all markets.

      Internet is the utility; however, it's still an oligopoly, since you can get FiOS or Cable in many places.

    25. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by LeftCoastThinker · · Score: 1

      I suppose it depends on where you live, but I suspect if you live outside of a large city, FiOS is not a realistic option (check the map). Again, if you live too far away, the same is true for DSL, so you are left with the cable monopoly.

      --
      If you disagree, please post your argument. (-1, Overrated) isn't your personal censorship tool for views you don't like
    26. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Comcast Cable isn't available everywhere; in some locations, Verizon DSL is your only option.

    27. Re:They earn that in 16 minutes by rubycodez · · Score: 1

      You don't know how p/l statements are made? salaries are expenses. Income minus expenses equals profit. you're welcome

  3. Re:Good business by Desler · · Score: 1

    Validating the old saying "Better to ask forgiveness than approval."

  4. I am Jack's complete lack of surprise. by Pezbian · · Score: 1

    This just in: Cable company becomes desperate in the face of wide abandonment. Film at 11.

    I have a contract with the same company only because of my Internet service. It seemed worth the extra few bucks to get TV tacked on just because. No. The fees and rate increases since have vastly amplified the monthly bill.

    In my neck of the woods, we don't have Google Fiber (yet), but we do have UTOPIAnet (Wasatch Front in Utah, for the record). Even with the cost of the FTTP gear, a 100/100mbit connection is still far less than what Comcast charges. For the same price Comcast charges, you get a symmetrical gigabit.

    Uploading at 12mbps grows old fast even if your download speed is in the 180 range.

    --
    In a world of the blind, the one-eyed man is king--and the two-eyed man is a heretic.
  5. Fraud by Moof123 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Outside of the telecom industry this is called fraud, and should result in jail time for those who are responsible.

    Comcast and its ilk own too many congressmen, so they have to pay back a small percentage of the profits if they get caught. Usually no admission of guilt is even needed.

    Carry on, business as usual.

    1. Re:Fraud by HiThere · · Score: 1

      It's still fraud, but if you want the fraud prosecuted, you need each case handled individually. You can't even do a class action, because each is a separate instance, and the actions aren't identical. So each defrauded customer would need to get their local police interested.

      Good luck with that.

      I agree that the fine is massively too small, but it should make it easier for any prosecution that is actually attempted.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    2. Re:Fraud by Holi · · Score: 1

      Why would you need to police, the police don't bring charges, you only need the DA in each state affected to bring charges. And a single charge can encompass many counts of fraud.

      --
      Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
    3. Re:Fraud by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      It's still fraud

      Not likely. Not all deceptive practices are fraud. There was probably something in the fine print of the contract that allowed them to cram. It is deceptive, and unethical, but not fraudulent.

  6. Yay! Vindicated! by stevegee58 · · Score: 1

    I posted my experience in a comment back in February on the article where Comcast was being grilled by Congress.
    I agree it's not much money for a big company but at least they're getting a good public flogging.

  7. The real question by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

    How much did Comcast earn from this evil behavior? Was it more than $2.3 million? Then why shouldn't they do it again?

    When you reward a behavior you get more of it.

    --
    Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    1. Re:The real question by bluefoxlucid · · Score: 1

      Repetition of the same behavior would, most likely, personally offend some powerful people who will no longer want to play with you. The fines get bigger and ridiculous shit like investigations and audits start happening until it's clearly established who has the power position in this relationship.

  8. I can confirm by subnomine · · Score: 1

    My elderly mother complains to Comcast (and me) that they charge her for on-demand shows that she has not ordered. Like the Ultimate Fighting Championship.

    1. Re:I can confirm by stevegee58 · · Score: 1

      Sounds like you're still living in your elderly mom's basement. :D

    2. Re:I can confirm by Locke2005 · · Score: 1

      Well, she didn't actually WATCH it, it was just on while we were getting it on... apparently watching guys hit each other turns her on!

      --
      I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
  9. Common by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    Another big telecom did this to us also multiple times. I suspect it's rampant in the industry(s) because nobody with authority is monitoring.

    If a customer detects it on their bill, the company just says, "Oh, we're sorry, we must have misunderstood your prior call. We thought you asked for our deluxe roach-chewing-cable-wires insurance policy."

    Coincidentally, their "misunderstanding" always benefits them, NOT us.

  10. Public flogging worthless by swb · · Score: 1

    Does public flogging even accomplish anything anymore?

    Really, about the only "public flogging" I've seen accomplish anything in recent memory might have been Mel Gibson's anti-Semitic rants and Trump's pussy grabbing comments (but ONLY the pussy grabbing).

    It sure seems like everyone else just gets away with whatever they did. Puny fines, some half-hearted yelling by a congressional committee, and no prosecutions of any kind. Whether it's Hillary or big corporations like Wells Fargo, they do what they do and nothing seems to happen. Nobody faces any personal accountability, what punishments happen seem to be largely trivial and never seem to detract from general misbehavior.

    1. Re:Public flogging worthless by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Does public flogging even accomplish anything anymore?

      A figurative flogging may not, but a literal flogging likely would. Singapore flogs criminals, with a rattan cane dipped in alcohol, and they have very low crime rates, and an incarceration rate less than a third of America's.

  11. Re:I have a choice by Tablizer · · Score: 1

    I'm so happy I have choices in Chicago. I walked away from Comcast years ago

    I live in a well-populated area and we have only two choices, and they both suck. One pulls billing tricks similar to TFA, the other has unreliable technology (flaky connections).

    I was so happy when a 3rd player announced they were available in our area, but then they got bought out by one of the first two.

    Historically, oligopolies usually suck. Competition makes a big difference, and insufficient competition almost always leads to crappy products and services. You need at least about 5 players to start getting decent choice.

    It's why Japan kicked Detroit's ass in the early 1980's: Detroit's auto oligopolies grew fat and lazy due to lack of competition, and produced fragile expensive gas-guzzlers. Detroit cars still have not quite caught up, but are MUCH better now compared to the world market because they have to compete on the world market.

  12. Criminal by Holi · · Score: 1

    Can we get some actual law enforcement? This was a criminal act, an intentional criminal act. The fact we do not enforce the law on corporatios and the wealthy makes a mockery of our judicial system. It actually makes me laugh to hear the comment "We are a country of laws", while at least until the tears come.

    --
    Sorry, teleporters just kill you and then make a copy. A perfect, soul-less copy.
  13. $2.3m fine vs profit from cramming by Ritz_Just_Ritz · · Score: 1

    The bottom line is that Comcast has very little incentive to do the right thing until it is coerced. They are always publicly stating how they are working to improve customer experience and customer service. The former is true. They are indeed working diligently to make it easier to make incremental purchases on things like Video on Demand. That interface is smooth and polished and it is in their financial best interest to make it so. The latter is debatable. Comcast is no longer the MOST hated consumer brand in the country. I believe they are now in 4th or 5th place. Still pretty dreadful, but a small improvement. It is my assertion that they feel the financial gain from making the investment in customer service is a poor investment given that they've got a captive audience due to their monopoly position in many markets.

    1. Re:$2.3m fine vs profit from cramming by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The VOD interface is smooth and polished?! It takes the stupid cable box 5 minutes to boot up, and there is something on the order of a full second latency between user actions and any response from the GUI. I can't understand why anyone puts up with it.

  14. Re:$2.3m dollars... by cyberchondriac · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Except Comcast is quite squarely in bed with Democrats, in this case. Lobbyists are lobbyists, and both parties love them. Many Democrats talk publicly like they want less corporate influence, but mostly it's an act.

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    Look back up at my post, now look back down, you're on the Internet. Now look back up. I'm a signature.
  15. Not One Fucking Word about Refunds by sycodon · · Score: 1

    No mention of forcing Comcast to provide full refunds to everyone they defrauded.

    That's pretty much how it works these days. A company is caught with it's hands in the cookie jar, get's time out, but gets to keep the cookies.

    --
    When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
    1. Re:Not One Fucking Word about Refunds by sycodon · · Score: 1

      Actually, the Feds and the company split the cookies.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  16. Re:$2.3m dollars... by postbigbang · · Score: 1

    Citation, please.

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    ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
  17. Prosecute instead of making deals every time by raymorris · · Score: 2

    Like most of the petty "fines" the FTC have been crowing about about the last few years, this is a consent decree - Comcast AGREED to pay $2.3 million.

    A consent decree / plea bargain can make sense if the prosecuting agency and the defendant agree to a reasonable penalty, but since the current FTC never prosecutes these cases, Comcast knows they can offer peanuts and the FTC will take it. If the adminsitration would say "no" to a deal once in a while and get verdicts for $20 billion, they'd be able to get negotiate consent decrees for $2 billion.

  18. Re: $2.3m dollars... by Atomic+Fro · · Score: 1

    The key concept here is that the money wasn't donated in the hopes that that party would win an election, or that the doners agree with that party's beliefs. It's bribe money, pure and simple.

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    Hippie Logger Jock
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  19. Re:$2.3m dollars... by RenderSeven · · Score: 1, Funny

    Total load of bullshit

    Somewhere, in a dark smokey room, Democrats are laughing their asses off that you keep buying their spin. Both parties are corrupt as hell, but Comcast in particular is in bed with Democrats. Your own link says this. But let's add this:

    How Comcast Bought the Democratic Party
    Lots of good reading

    Forget the paltry $50k or $100k donated directly, let's examine the *millions* raised by Comcast for Obama and the DNC, and the "Comcast Foundataion" (sound familiar?) that channels donations to the needy as long as they support Comcast's initiatives.They are a dirty dirty dirty company (and not in a good way). A lone notable exception: Al Franken, who despite taking $15k from Comcast lobbyists still spoke out against them.

  20. One solution by fulldecent · · Score: 3, Interesting

    https://sillyutility.net/ -- Compare your Comcast bill with others in your ZIP code to see if they are charging too much. Just launched today. It is mostly for the Philadelphia market but actually it works anywhere in the US.

    Funny though, this actually just launched today.

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    -- I was raised on the command line, bitch

  21. isn't that a bit too low? by lord3nd3r · · Score: 1

    Isn't that a really low-ball number? they have ripped off so many people (myself included). I think a fair number would be 10x that.

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    g0t b33r?
  22. Corp versus Individual penalities by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    If an individual commits fraud, the civil and criminal penalties are typically many times more than the profit they made from the fraud.

    If a corporation commits what is essentially a type of fraud, the penalties are some fraction of a percent of the profit they made.

    Seems fair, right?

    --
    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  23. Re:Happened to me by OrangeTide · · Score: 1

    I refuse everything when Comcast calls me, I'll even refuse to speak English if it can get me off the call faster. Even vague responses can be kind of dangerous with these guys. Anything except "die in a fire" is considered consent with them.

    I used to have a ton of problems with the local newspaper signing me up for subscriptions if I didn't respond to their phone call with a written request to terminate any subscription, delivery, or offer that they think they might have with me. Luckily the newspaper business is dying and it has been less of a problem.

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    “Common sense is not so common.” — Voltaire
  24. Agreed, All the profits + by Archfeld · · Score: 2

    I think they should estimate all the profits they made on the violation, and THEN levy a fine on top of that. There is no way a company should profit from criminal actions. If that happened and the company actually LOST money, the stockholders would take care of the CxO's/boardmembers in a fashion that would really be a punishment to them, via the pocketbook. It would lead to a tying of bonuses and golden parachutes to actual company performance.

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    errr....umm...*whooosh* *whoosh* Is this thing on ?
  25. .0000370967 of comcast annual sales by alw53 · · Score: 1

    .0000370967 of comcast annual sales.

  26. Re:$2.3m dollars... by Darinbob · · Score: 1

    CEO is democrat means nothing whatsoever as far as the relevant politics goes. A binary left vs right, democrat vs republican, or liberal vs conservative is simplistic kindergarten style of thinking. Companies give campaign donations to help out their own bottom line regardless of how they feel about other political issues. This is why they shotgun the money to whoever is on the relevant committees regardless of the party.

    At least as far as using the corporation's money. The CEOs may donate their own personal money to various political causes of course, like with the Koch brothers (though their company is privately held they can't just dip into its coffers for these purposes).

  27. make them pay more than they made! by Vorl · · Score: 1

    I think that when a company does something like this, the fine should be 2-5 times the amount of money they made... That would make them much less interested in doing something that is clearly wrong.

    I doubt very much that the tiny fine they have to pay even comes close to how much money they made.

  28. Why does the government keep the money? by rcastles · · Score: 1

    Shouldn't the customers get it back? Why aren't these cases processed like a class action suit?