Slashdot Mirror
China Just Launched Two Astronauts Into Orbit (bbc.com)
An anonymous Slashdot reader quotes the BBC: China has launched two men into orbit in a project designed to develop its ability to explore space. The astronauts took off from the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Centre in northern China at 23:30 GMT on Sunday [7:30 p.m. EST].
The plan is for them to dock with and then spend 30 days on board the Tiangong 2 space station testing its ability to support life. This and previous launches are seen as pointers to possible crewed missions to the Moon or Mars.
NBC calls this evidence of "the intensifying U.S.-China space rivalry... With the current U.S.-led International Space Station expected to retire in 2024, China could be the only nation left with a permanent presence in space."
The plan is for them to dock with and then spend 30 days on board the Tiangong 2 space station testing its ability to support life. This and previous launches are seen as pointers to possible crewed missions to the Moon or Mars.
NBC calls this evidence of "the intensifying U.S.-China space rivalry... With the current U.S.-led International Space Station expected to retire in 2024, China could be the only nation left with a permanent presence in space."
In the mid 1990s, China was not allowed to join the ISS over human rights concerns. Of course,that didn't stop us from welcoming Russia which also had a terrible history, and it isn't like he threat of not being in the ISS changed China's behavior at all. So the end result is that China instead has a very strong and fast growing space program of their own when instead we could be cooperating with them.
Wi Hai Flai, and Go Up Dang?
Brazil's first astronaut went up 10 years ago.
The US and Russia have have been sending people up there for half a century.
The moon is 200 times closer and better suited for all visitation and logistics problems. Those have to come first. Mars is a toxic landscape requiring trips through space subjecting vehicles to millions of micro-asteroids and radiation bombardment which nothing similar has survived long term. Satellites hide in the magnetosphere, and Voyager is a light probe.
A rivalry can only exist with two roughly equal adversaries. China is no rival of the USA in space exploration. China is about 50 years behind the USA in just about any indicator of space progress or achievement. Even in 50 years they will still be behind the US, and maybe even ESA or the Japanese.
China is still a vastly inferior, backwards nation. They have advanced a lot since realizing communism sucks, but they still have a lot way to go.
That's the thing about Chinese astronauts. A half hour after you launch one, you want to launch another.
You are welcome on my lawn.
The astronauts took off from the Jiuquan Satellite Launch Centre
Chinese space travelers are Taikonauts, much as Russian space travelers are Cosmonauts.
Firefly's backstory contains an element about the US and China being the powers that drove into space:
"The show blended elements from the space opera and Western genres, depicting humanity's future in a manner different from most contemporary science fiction programs in that there are no large space battles. Firefly takes place in a multi-cultural future, primarily a fusion of Western and East Asian cultures, where there is a significant division between the rich and poor. As a result of the Sino-American Alliance, Mandarin Chinese is a common second language; it is used in advertisements, and characters in the show frequently use Chinese words as curses. According to the DVD commentary on the episode "Serenity", this was explained as being the result of China and the United States being the two superpowers that expanded into space."
-- Wikipedia on Firefly
I don't know if anyone remembers, but at the time the space station was being constructed many scientists complained that there was no clear purpose for the project.
It was said (at the time) that there were no compelling experiments that needed to be done (in long-term weightlessness), and that the money could be better spent on other more interesting astronomical projects such as rovers, off-Earth exploratory missions, orbital telescopes, and such.
To date I still don't think any really ground-breaking science was done at the station. Yeah, little PR things like how cats cope with zero G, and how spiderwebs look in space, but basically nothing very useful.
Now we have this provocative headline "China could be the only nation left with a permanent presence in space!" and... yeah? So what?
We haven't lost the ability to put things into orbit, and space stations are enormously expensive.
Let's solve a couple of our problems down here on Earth first.
Nice work! Looking forward to see what is next.
The last I heard about the Chinese space station was that they lost control of it and was on a collision course for some place on earth - yet to determine where it will actually crash into, but this is news for next year I suppose.
appears to be a certainty doing this, if they go out above the Van Allen Belt.
Dunno....
https://www.nasa.gov/pdf/28427...
Let China do what it wants to do, speaking as an american we need to rethink the space program and stop being nationalistic over it.
I'll applaud China, or Russia, or The EU landing on Mars first as heartily as I would America.
I just wish all of the space nations would stop doing it for dick measuring, and instead worked together and made sure we as the world got the best bang for the buck.
Until then, I'm all for not participating in any race to the stars.
_ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
As usual, The Onion provides an insightful and thought-provoking retrospective on China's astronautical policies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NPQH60bhFdA
By going 120 kilometers up? How does that help to "explore" space?
www.distancetomars.com
http://physics.ucsd.edu/do-the...
Note the distances. No one is "exploring" anything better because they are in a tin can in the upper atmosphere...
Did Donald grab them by the pussy?
If it were 60 years ago!
I, for one, think we should stay in the trees. We have enough problems to solve here before we go roaming the grasslands in search of denser food sources.
That gave me a chuckle.
Well played, sir!
The universe is probably littered with the one-planet graves of cultures which made the sensible economic decision that there's no good reason to go into space--each discovered, studied, and remembered by the ones who made the irrational decision.
Alt text from https://xkcd.com/893/
They just wanted to get some fresh air.
MSNBC tells me that you are racist and sexist for that comment! Go apollogize to Our People b4 id 2 lade
What annoys me more is that such Chinese activities are almost a secret to the rest of the world, I don't know if they or us are to blame for that. I guess the majority of us did not even know they had two space stations, astronauts doing space walks, and what about that probe they sent to the moon? I mean, this achievements are so important for human kind in general, they should at least share the non-strategic details with the rest of the world.
Should read "the intensifying Russia-China space rivalry"
The USA do not have a way to get people into orbit apart from asking for a lift.
Can we get back from here or will it be like the British rocket program that just fizzled out and was never restarted?
All we can do currently is something like the Mercury project of 1958. We don't have the launcher ready for anything bigger and may not for years.
Temporary is saying that under the Ford administration and not under the Obama one.
Just shows Wheedon is paying attention - the Russian economy is still tied to resources so while they have the technology it's China and the USA that have the money to use it. Russia has had a century to get to where it is now while China has surpassed it starting from a low base around 1970.
Re, Russia: A new Cold War with Russia is lining up whether the US wants one or not.
No, there is little chance of another 'cold war' but there is every chance that Russia becomes a sort of North Korea style pariah state that exists to draw a disproportionate amount of attention to itself in a bid to remain relevant.
Russia does not have the demographics or population to engage the west in another head-to-head arms race. Remember, what made the cold war feel like a real war, was that the two sides were roughly equal in technological capability, and there was a genuine fear that one side might gain an advantage that would render the MAD equilibrium inert. People were fighting for their lives to try to ensure that equilibrium was not disrupted against them, because most people felt the other side would be effectively compelled to use a significant technological advantage if that became available to them.
I just don't see how we could get back to that situation with the technological lead and relative economic might the west has now. More likely, the west would quickly be able to 'contain' the Russian threat in an asymmetric way - i.e. west can take out the whole country in the time Moscow can take out 2-3 european capitals. At that point neither side will 'win' by doing anything, and then we enter the North Korean situation: Putin periodically rattles his sabre to get some more aid money to buy caviar and luxury cars.
The US is not renewing their contract with the russians (which will expire end of 2018 if I'm not mistaken), and will rely on commercial flights by SpaceX, Boeing etc.. NASA (read, US) will not have it's own rockets for sending people into space. Just like the ISS, yes they will abandon it in 2024, but it will be taken over by commercial entities, that's why they are already letting commercial entities create and test modules for connecting to the ISS..
Is it true the astronauts' names are Laika and Gordo?
I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
Have you read that document in its entirety?
I consider myself a fairly laid back person, liberal (in a more original sense than is perhaps used today), with a strong live and let live attitude towards life, and yet I can't bring myself to see eye to eye with some of the articles and the overall wording of that declaration.
While it is undoubtedly a 'good thing' (TM) I suspect you have to live with unicorns and smoke rainbows to fully jive with what it says...
As individuals we may disagree over whether certain things should be considered universal rights--personally, I often disagree with decisions about whether someone should have a right. But that document is a core part of the accepted definition of human rights.
The definition of human rights is an artifact of public international law. Most lawyers, scholars, and diplomats consider the primary documents to be the "International Bill of Rights," which includes the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (Eleanor Roosevelt's legacy after WW2), as well as two other treaties--one on Civil and Political Rights (The ICCPR), and one on Social and Economic Rights (the ICESCR). Of the two treaties, each has about 160 states who are parties. The United States is one of the outliers in that it has signed but not ratified the one on Social and Economic Rights, which means the treaty is not entirely binding in domestic law of the United States, although it is incorporated into United States law indirectly under something called the "Charming Betsy" doctrine.
Real lawyers write in C++
God speed on you on your way.
Chinese space program is part of their military. The fact that none chinese were NOT allowed to see the inside of these space stations says a lot. The answer is absolutely NOT.
And Chinese space program is NEITHER fast growing or STRONG (yet).
OTOH, America has not only brought in multiple partners and brought them up to speed with working together in space, Europe, Canada, Japan, South Korea, etc have some level of experience
And to this add that America now has multiple launch companies and is moving forwards with multiple private space stations. These will be used to not only help more nations develop their space programs, BUT, also get us to the moon and mars.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Les franges sont partout : bottines, sneakers, sur nos sacs ou nos petits hauts. Les franges accessoirisent une tenue et apportent un côté ethnique, branché. Pour toutes les fanatiques, voici un tuto pour apprendre à customiser vos chaussures avec des franges sur clips, amovibles à l'envi. Rien de bien compliqué, en quatre étapes c'est bouclé !Pour information, les mesures sont à titre indicatif car elles sont adaptées aux chaussures, à vous d'adapter en fonction du résultat que vous souhaitez. On vous conseille de commencer par mesurer l'espace entre la bride de cheville et la lanière du devant du pied. bandes de 14 cm de hauteur et 4,5 cm de largeur. Ensuite coupez 6 rectangles 10 cm de hauteur et 4,5 cm de largeu timberland Homme ..
Oh please. We have 3 launchers in SLS, Atlas, and falcon. Yes SLS is not quite ready, but will be next year. Falcon has an issue with the helium tank which is being sorted out. Then have 3 capsules, of Orien, cst100, and dragon. Orien and cst100 hold 6 ppl while dragon can hold 7. Orien is ready. Dragon will be ready by end of 2017, while cst100 will be ready by mid 2019, if not early 2019. And none of this includes, SNC or BO , both if which should have orbital vehicles by 2020.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Not one of these launchers is man-rated yet. Russia has two man-rated launchers right now.
"It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
... China does the rework!
oh, my sweet illusion gone!
USA can't put a man into orbit? The fuck are you talking about
All 3 our launchers, SLS, Atlas V, and F9, are man-rated.
Only 1 capsule, orion, is man-rated. However, dragon and cst-100 will be rated in 1 and 3 years, respectively.
Finally, add on Blue Origin and SNC's vehicle happening 4 years.
And Russia has only 1 man-rated launch system.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Yes - Atlas launched the Mercury project of 1958. The others are a step backwards on Titan, which we no longer have.
Two of those are not ready and do not appear that they will be ready for a few years so that leaves what I mentioned above - Atlas as used in the Mercury project of 1958.
Von Braun's body is a mounderin' in the ground and we aint got the moon no more.
Yikes!
Only in China. Perhaps they should have phrased the missions objectives a bit better.
Mission Control:"OK were ready for you to put you into orbit and conduct some tests!"
Human Meat/Astronaut: "What tests will we be doing in orbit?"
Mission Control: "Well you'll be the first to test our life support systems for the greater glory of China and the Party!"
Human Meat/Astronaut: "What are the test parameters? Are we to adjust the climate control for efficiency?"
Mission Control: "Well if you die, we'll know it isn't ready to support life yet, and that we still have some bugs to work out!"
Human Meat/Astronaut: "..."
Mission Control: "What?"
Human Meat/Astronaut: "ACHOO! I think I have some sniffles coming on..."
F9 is man-rated according to NASA. Just because it has an issue at the moment, does not remove the man-rating from NASA. You know that.
However, you are correct that SLS is not man-rated yet. So, we have 2 that are.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
Atlas 5 has nothing to do with the original Atlas. It has over twice the payload of the Titan II GLV used in Project Gemini (Project Mercury is tiny in comparison). Atlas 5 has almost as much payload as a Titan IV. Had they produced the Atlas 5 Heavy version it would have even more payload than the Titan IV, which is a contemporary rocket to the Space Shuttle, and would look not too dissimilar to a rocket named Rus-M the Russians at one time proposed to replace the Soyuz for launching the PPTS manned capsule. Problem with Atlas 5 is that it uses Russian RD-180 engines on the first stage. Which is why ULA is developing Vulcan to replace it.
The Falcon 9 has even more payload than an Atlas 5 though and all the major components are built in the US.
The engine technology used in both those rockets is easily better than what was available in the late 1960s anywhere in the world. The engines might be smaller than the Saturn V engines but the tech is better. Even the Falcon 9's Merlin-1D engine is better than the Saturn V's F-1 at everything but thrust. Be it ISP, chamber pressure, thrust-to-weight-ratio, reusability, etc. The thrust could have been increased by simply making the engine bigger. SpaceX instead chose to design the Raptor engine which is going to be a state of the art engine better than anything else available right now for the purpose it was designed to do. With technology which was not available during the space race and arguably more advanced than the Space Shuttle Main Engines.
Yes but it's not going to be launching people into space this year or the next. Atlas is what we have now.
Will the F9 really be launching people in the next couple of years?
If not I stand by what I wrote, since as you may recall I used the word "currently" but I'm willing to give "soon" a pass even though that's not what I wrote.
I would almost be willing to bet that Falcon 9 will put people in space first.
So what happens when somebody enters illegally? It says they have the right to wonder freely. No where did it say that to wonder freely , you had to be legally there.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
It is supposed to launch next year with a crew.
I think that it will depend on if SpaceX REALLY has solved the helium tank problem.
However, it should be noted that the launch abort worked perfectly and had the V2 been on the last launcher, it would have survived.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
atlas 5 will not launch a single person until they have a vehicle to take up. And CST-100 will not be ready until end of 2018, or possibly into 2019.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
It doesn't say the country they're in can't kick them out again, if they're there illegally. You'd make more sense arguing that the rights of convicted criminals serving jail or prison sentences are violated.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
Good point then. I was unaware that it was so close to completion.
Still only 1/8 of what a Saturn V can do and barely better than the European Space Agency can do though. Dust off the Titan IVB plans if you want something with the same capacity. I really do not get all the fuss. "Commercial Space" is not a new thing and Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Douglass etc etc have done better.
Actually, I think that you have missed things: the Falcon 9 can launch ~13 tonnes to leo on a reusable, but 23 tonnes to leo if f9 is expendable. IOW, it is close to the DIVH, only a fraction of the costs. And the FH will not do a xross-over, but will still get 54+ tonnes to leo. The falcons are currently volume limited, so supposedly, SX WAS working on new fairing. I'm sure at this moment that those ppl are working on F9's situation which appears to be their helium tank.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
That is what I was referring to - the ESA can do the same if you want to send your dollars into their "Commercial Space". The Titan IVB can do the same if you want to pay a US company enough for them to start building it again.