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Apple and Other Tech Companies Have Registered Their IP in Jamaica, Tonga, and Elsewhere For Years (qz.com)

Posted by msmash on from the stranger-things dept.

Apple's product launches are notoriously secretive, but the Cupertino, California tech giant is sure to do one thing ahead of a big reveal: file trademark paperwork in Jamaica. From a Quartz report: It did this for Siri, the Apple Watch, macOS, and dozens of its major products months before the equivalent paperwork was lodged in the United States. Likewise, Google, Amazon, and Microsoft routinely file trademarks for their most important products in locales far flung from Silicon Valley and Seattle. These include Jamaica, Tonga, Iceland, South Africa, and Trinidad and Tobago -- places where trademark authorities don't maintain easily searchable databases. The tech giants are exploiting a US trademark-law provision that lets them effectively claim a trademark in secret. Under this provision, once a mark is lodged with an intellectual property office outside the US, the firm has six months to file it with the US Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO). When the firm does file in the US, it can point to its original application made abroad to show that it has a priority claim on the mark.

42 comments

  1. outrage! by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Insightful

    If companies want to keep their product secret until a big announcement, I don't have a problem with that.
    If this is the legal trick they use to accomplish that, then again, there is no problem.

    As long as they aren't using it to push around little people, or extort others, then it's an interesting trick, but nothing to get worried about.

    --
    "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    1. Re: outrage! by Godwin+O'Hitler · · Score: 1

      This article really is grade A non-news, a kind of preemptive non sequitur.

      --
      No, your children are not the special ones. Nor are your pets.
    2. Re: outrage! by phantomfive · · Score: 4, Informative

      Please note: this is a trademark issue, not a patent issue. If a business fails because it can't get a specific trademark, it probably wasn't much of a business to begin with.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    3. Re: outrage! by phantomfive · · Score: 2

      It's only news because it's something interesting that large companies are doing. Those kinds of things are worth knowing about, especially for those of us who can benefit from knowing weird things related to our industry.

      On the other hand, if you want to read things to feel outrage, then yeah, it's completely useless. Go read naturalnews.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    4. Re: outrage! by Travis+Mansbridge · · Score: 0

      Why doesn't this apply to patents? If you're unable to know that a technology is patented before you produce something violating that patent because it was hidden in a non-searchable file cabinet in Jamaica, isn't this a real way to waste a lot of time and money?

    5. Re: outrage! by nedlohs · · Score: 2

      Except for the obvious fact that trademarks and patents are not the in anyway the same thing.

    6. Re: outrage! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Except for the obvious fact that trademarks and patents are not the in anyway the same thing.

      Well, except for both are managed by the US Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO). So cut the guy a little slack for overlooking the fact that this impacts just the trademark side.

    7. Re: outrage! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Because if you've searched publications and patents, and found nothing, why would you be producing something without filing an application yourself?

      We do first-to-file here in the US, with prior art available for publications before your filing date. If it's in an unsearchable filing cabinet in Jamaica, it's not prior art to your application. In that situation, you've just obtained a US patent by virtue of being the second guy to independently come up with that idea. How did that waste your time and money?

    8. Re: outrage! by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      Because it's a story about trademarks lol. The rules for patents are different than the rules for trademarks. If you happen to know that someone's been doing this with patents to, then you should link to that story.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    9. Re: outrage! by nedlohs · · Score: 1

      Alcohol and Firearms are not in anyway the same thing despite the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives existing.

      Sure like trademarks and patents they go well together, but that doesn't make them the same :)

    10. Re: outrage! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In fact this is how everybody files patents as well. Filing in one country preserves your filing date and you can then for example you can file a PCT application, which preserves your right to delay filing of your patent in any other PCT country (large part / majority of the world) for 30-31 months from the original filing date.

    11. Re: outrage! by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      Interesting brings to mind the whole DNS saga and the limited number of possible names in any language. So you go to the cheapest possible country and trademark as many names as possible and then bring it back to the US to use it offensively and with no regard what so ever to fair competition.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    12. Re: outrage! by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      That is an interesting question. Here are my thoughts on the topic.

      I think Trademarks are too flexible for that too happen. For example, look up the word 'Boston' in the trademark database, several different companies have trademarked for various, non-conflicting uses. Additionally, each Trademark registration only lasts 6 months, so you'd need to re-register or something. Maybe it would work if you got a bulk deal on trademarks? But it might be hard to convince a court that your trademark is meaningful if you are registering them in bulk.

      On the other hand, there are some kinds of trademark trolls

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
  2. Why is this a problem? by genka · · Score: 1

    Apple is a worldwide company, why the US filing must be the first one?

    1. Re:Why is this a problem? by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 2

      Apple is a worldwide company, why the US filing must be the first one?

      Because Patriarchy, or White Privilege, or {insert current anti-corporation SJW jargon here}! Maybe it's because a lot of people here dislike the USPTO (myself included), but agreed. Of all of the slimy, unethical things a lot of corporations do, this isn't one of them.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    2. Re:Why is this a problem? by stinerman · · Score: 1

      Its only a problem inasmuch as filing for the trademark in a country more likely to grant it gives them a leg up in countries that would be less likely to grant it.

      Its like if I wanted a CCW permit, but my state makes it onerous to get one, whereas a nearby state just requires a fee and short test on gun safety. I go to the other state to get one, and through reciprocity agreements, I can use it in my home state. My own state's regulations are basically a dead letter.

      End of the day this is not too big of a deal, but could become one if the major players are really using it to their own advantage.

  3. What are these "other" tech companies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I know it's cool to hate on Apple, but I like how no other large companies are listed here. The editors here are fucking garbage.

    1. Re: What are these "other" tech companies? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Agree completely.

    2. Re:What are these "other" tech companies? by Daetrin · · Score: 1

      I know it's cool to hate on the editors, but i like how you didn't even read the blurb to see three other companies that were listed:

      "Likewise, Google, Amazon, and Microsoft routinely file trademarks for their most important products in locales far flung from Silicon Valley and Seattle."

      --
      This Space Intentionally Left Blank
  4. Garbage posing as news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Yes, and you can also file intent-to-use trademark applications in the US, giving you around four years to actually use the mark. Furthermore, because Jamaica, etc., are not Apple's actual country of origin, they have no other basis for registration in the US than actual use.

    It sounds nice, but I'm at a complete loss (and the article offers no ideas) as to why this might be beneficial, since it's indistinguishable from an intent-to-use application filed six months earlier in the US. Yes, you've made it marginally more difficult for outsiders to guess what marks you're going to use in the future, but only with a six-month delay, and you've done nothing to actually obtain meaningful rights.

    1. Re:Garbage posing as news by tlhIngan · · Score: 1

      It sounds nice, but I'm at a complete loss (and the article offers no ideas) as to why this might be beneficial, since it's indistinguishable from an intent-to-use application filed six months earlier in the US. Yes, you've made it marginally more difficult for outsiders to guess what marks you're going to use in the future, but only with a six-month delay, and you've done nothing to actually obtain meaningful rights.

      Well, for a company like Apple, it means a delay in the release of speculation about a product. If you have a product you know is going to be released in the next 6 months, file early, and no one will know about it until release, when you can file the US paperwork and it all becomes official.

      If you check out the Apple rumor mill websites, they constantly do IP searches for Apple - looking for new trademarks, patents, FCC filings, etc., which only fuel speculation on what those things can be. Heck, the FCC revealed an unknown Apple device that no one really knows what it is. The trademark of which is probably in one of those places and yet it's only "The unknown Apple device". Presumably knowing the name means people can figure out what it does and maybe even duplicate it before release.

    2. Re:Garbage posing as news by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's the legal department trying to prove their value and indispensability to the company by over-engineering their solutions to vague or non-existent problems. Some engineers, marketers, hr and managers do it, so why not legal as well.

  5. Don't like it? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Then elect a body that will change it. As long as you people keep voting for the same Ds and Rs this isn't going to change. How many more times does this need stated that the currently big political bodies simply don't care what works for you. Why do we have to keep flogging this dead horse? Why do we have to watch people cry and complain as they waste their votes on Hillary and Trump, spend their money at WalMart?

  6. ATI used to do this in... Barbados I think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Wonder if AMD still does, for their graphics IP...? Or maybe they have a different spot?

    1. Re: ATI used to do this in... Barbados I think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I think that was for tax and funky accounting purposes though, and less for weird trademark shenanigans

  7. Cool! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey, they're all innovators, always finding a way to do something that others hadn't thought of. Here too.

  8. Was this meant to inspire outrage? by maliqua · · Score: 5, Insightful

    If it was meant to inspire outrage it failed. this is just nonsense news. It is mildly interesting and if it had been portrayed in a "FYI This is a clever trick some big companies are using that hurts no one, if anything it creates a small amount of jobs in some poor countries, without taking anything away from the USA" it would have been a quality article

    1. Re:Was this meant to inspire outrage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Apart from the fact that you're mixing up patents and trademarks, the priority period for patent applications is actually a year. And more to the point, that's perfectly in line with first-to-file: by no means did anyone intend that to mean "first to file here in the US".

      Indeed, that whole change from first-to-invent was to bring us in line with the rest of the world, where they've respected original US filing dates against their first-to-file system for decades.

    2. Re:Was this meant to inspire outrage? by Stewie241 · · Score: 1

      If you read the summary this seems to be more related to trademarks than it is to patents.

      These seems to be mostly to do with a corps ability to plan marketing material for a product before launching it and still having it be a surprise. Seems reasonable to me, especially for things such as 'Siri' or 'Apple Watch'. Makes things a bit more concrete in a legal sense as well since you don't have some trademark argument in the event somebody tries to swoop in and take it - you haven't registered your intent months before in the other jurisdiction. In the meantime you get your product ready to ship and send it out the door. You get your marketing surprise with your fancy reveal. In the event somebody leaks it you don't have to worry about rushing off to file it.

      Seems almost like this should be built into the trademark filing process - the ability to register intent to use a mark and keep it secret for some amount of time (say 3 months or 6 months).

    3. Re:Was this meant to inspire outrage? by AHuxley · · Score: 1

      re "This is a clever trick some big companies are using that hurts no one"
      Like tax, cheap workers, lack of inspections, something is attracting the big brands to invest is such methods.
      A lot of smaller nations cant afford to sign up to conventions and protections.
      A lab, front or other site in a nation with no or few international protections or status has a lot of value in both secrecy, lack of unexpected inspections, reporting and compliance.
      For big pharma its the inspections and rules of the List of parties to the Biological Weapons Convention.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
      For other big brands its just tax.
      No company would spend its generational shareholders cash globally without some profit.

      --
      Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    4. Re:Was this meant to inspire outrage? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Filing a patent overseas doesn't mean you get "bonus points" because the US doesn't automatically "accept" that someone else was granted a patent, the USPTO will examine the patent as well.

    5. Re:Was this meant to inspire outrage? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      If it was meant to inspire outrage it failed.

      WTF is that all you read the news for these days? If so you're part of the problem.

  9. "secret" trademark shenanigans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    fixed that for you

  10. Because they're not filing patents like this! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thus it (the filing of trademarks in hard to search countries prior to filing in the US) does not apply to Patents.

  11. Trademarks, not Patents... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is about Trademarks, not Patents, they are not remotely the same things.

  12. CPA Wife:"all companies do this" by bongey · · Score: 0

    Pretty much any company in america does this. The licensing allows companies to expense the licensing cost, that is how Apple pays no Federal Income tax, they have no taxable income technically.

  13. Re: ATI used to do this in... Barbados I think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think that was for tax and funky accounting purposes though, and less for weird trademark shenanigans

    Before they were bought by AMD, ATI was a Canadian company located in the suburbs of Toronto.

    Canada has tax treaties with many countries, including Barbados. There are some interesting legal tax schemes as a result:

    http://canadian-lawyers.ca/Und...

    http://www.cbc.ca/news/busines...

    Did ATI do this? I dunno, but since you mentioned Barbados...

  14. Re: ATI used to do this in... Barbados I think by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fascinating... I had no idea about this legal situation . Based on some of the rumors about KY Ho and other senior execs, I bet ATI absolutely took advantage...

    That aside, it was a great company to work for. Was sad about the AMD buy out, was never the same after that.