Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

Apple is 'Intransigent, Closed and Controlling' Say Banks (afr.com)

Posted by msmash on from the my-way-or-highway dept.

Apple is increasingly trying to get banks to implement its Apple Pay mobile payments solutions, but some banks are avoiding Cupertino giant's offer, saying that the company is "closed and controlling". From a report on Financial Review: Three of Australia's big four banks have described technology giant Apple as being "intransigent, closed and controlling" and accused it of attempting to freeload on their contactless payments infrastructure while slowing innovation in digital wallets. In an increasingly acrimonious dispute, Commonwealth Bank of Australia, National Australia Bank, Westpac Banking Corp and Bendigo and Adelaide Bank are arguing that the engineering of Apple iPhones prevent them from delivering mobile wallets to millions of customers. This is because Apple Pay is the only application that works with the iPhone's "near field communication" (NFC) antenna, which communicates with payment terminals. In their latest, 137-page submission filed with the competition regulator, the banks argue that by locking them out, "Apple is seeking for itself the exclusive use of Australia's existing NFC terminal infrastructure for the making of integrated mobile payments using iOS devices. Yet, this infrastructure was built and paid for by Australian banks and merchants for the benefit of all Australians."

13 of 289 comments (clear)

  1. I hope Apple Pay will die by fred6666 · · Score: 5, Insightful

    We don't need yet another middle man charging yet another fee. And no, Apple Pay is not free for the end user. There is a hidden fee charged to the bank, which end up being charger to the merchant, which end up being charged to the consumers one way or another.

    1. Re:I hope Apple Pay will die by bbeagle · · Score: 0, Insightful

      Why? You don't like competition?

    2. Re:I hope Apple Pay will die by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Because after a while you are no longer thinking do they accept Mastercard, Visa, or Amex. You are thinking do they take apple pay. When you pull out your payment method, people aren't seeing the Credit logo, they are seeing an iPhone or Android variant. This is about mind share.

    3. Re:I hope Apple Pay will die by serviscope_minor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Apple Pay is a net-positive value to the consumer, because the risk rates are lower.

      My credit card already indemnifies me against fraud, so the risk is already negligible.

      As a merchant, your processing charges are smaller with Apple Pay than with swipe or web form.

      Really? The fees are better than Amex, worse than debit cards. IOW they're about in line with other credit cards.

      Apple has innovated to create Apple Pay by making contactless payments simple to manage and administer

      Contactless payments were already simple to manage and administer.

      creating the platforms and hardware to use them (phone, watch)

      Um, how is creating contactless payment hardware innovation when contactless payments were already very widespread.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    4. Re:I hope Apple Pay will die by fred6666 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Except the USA, pretty much every one has moved out of the magnetic swipe payments. Apple Pay do not have enough benefit over regular chip+pin (which can also be contact-less) cards to justify yet another middle man.

      And Apple Pay will never replace chip+pin cards simply because not everybody has an iPhone. Therefore the global payment system will always need to support payments method others than Apple Pay. A castle is as insecure as its weakest door. Apple Pay doesn't address the problem of the weak door at all, and therefore adds no added security to the global payment system.

      It does have some privacy benefits. But go ahead and charge that 0.3% (or whatever) fee directly to the customer and see how much the average user cares about that. Why do you have to force that fee down the throat of those who do not want it?

    5. Re:I hope Apple Pay will die by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Its a middleman that i not collecting data and on selling it to advertisers.

      THAT is a large part of the bitching, the Banks get a secure payment, but they no longer get what it was for. This buggers up their marketing/selling of your info.

    6. Re:I hope Apple Pay will die by SolemnLord · · Score: 4, Insightful

      My credit card already indemnifies me against fraud, so the risk is already negligible.

      Apple Pay prevents fraud through its use of one-time codes, which is different from you being protected from fraud after the fact.

      Contactless payments were already simple to manage and administer.

      It's slightly more convenient (very slight, but you still notice when you have to pull out your card), and more secure, as I have to verify my identity either 1. through Touch ID as I hold the phone when making payment or 2. entering my Watch's passcode at the start of the day. I can't speak for the rest of the world, but in Canada debit contactless payments require a PIN every three transactions to reduce fraudulent charges from card theft and Apple Pay tied to a debit card does not, tacitly admitting that it's more secure.

      Um, how is creating contactless payment hardware innovation when contactless payments were already very widespread.

      Yeah, it's not really especially innovative. The ease-of-use and security factors plus Apple's shine, however, acted as a convenient way for consumers to apply some pressure to banks/merchants to update payment systems in the US.

    7. Re:I hope Apple Pay will die by vux984 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I can't speak for the rest of the world, but in Canada debit contactless payments require a PIN every three transactions to reduce fraudulent charges from card theft and Apple Pay tied to a debit card does not, tacitly admitting that it's more secure.

      I use contactless credit all the time and have never once ever had to enter a pin. I realize you said contactless *debit*; my wife does that but I never do, so i asked and she's NEVER had to enter a pin doing contactless *debit* either.

      And Yes. In Canada.

      Apple Pay tied to a debit card does not, tacitly admitting that it's more secure.

      WTF? If you enable apple pay you are required to use an unlock or fingerprint to approve each transaction. So Applepay doesn't require a pincode because it requires a fingerprint scan or an unlock code.

      It's slightly more convenient (very slight, but you still notice when you have to pull out your card)

      As opposed to pulling out your phone? Which might occasionally have a dead battery. Or maybe its raining or frigid or sweltering and your fingerprint scanner won't read your finger; so you try that 3 times before giving up and entering the passcode....

      Or maybe you have more than one card and you want to use a different card, so now you have futz around in settings to change which card to use.

      Frankly I find my credit card much faster to use. I don't have to unlock it. I don't have do anything but tap and go. The smartphone payment systems are universally LESS convenient.

      Yeah, it's not really especially innovative.

      No its not. Its a good implementation. But its not innovative.

      The ease-of-use and security factors plus Apple's shine, however, acted as a convenient way for consumers to apply some pressure to banks/merchants to update payment systems in the US.

      While the refusal to allow the use of alternative (non-applepay) payment apps is anti-consumer/anti-competitive and should be stomped on.

    8. Re:I hope Apple Pay will die by SolemnLord · · Score: 3, Insightful

      And Yes. In Canada.

      Totally willing to accept that I'm wrong on that (I was repeating what I've heard). I've never had a contactless debit (my card's getting old), so I jumped right from chip-and-pin to Apple Pay. So my bad.

      As opposed to pulling out your phone?

      I mentioned having a Watch, which is what I use. Pulling out a phone would arguably be easier than pulling out your wallet and then card, assuming you don have more than one contactless card (then you could just use your whole wallet. It's a minor convenience at best, but it's still a convenience.

      Or maybe you have more than one card and you want to use a different card, so now you have futz around in settings to change which card to use.

      On the Watch you literally just swipe to select the card you want. On the phone it acts like the Wallet app, with the default already selected. Any cards in the system have already been added beforehand, and the only reason to go into settings is to change the default card.

      While the refusal to allow the use of alternative (non-applepay) payment apps is anti-consumer/anti-competitive and should be stomped on.

      The thing is that I trust Apple to keep its secure enclave secure (and it's fair to argue that even that much is too much trust). I don't trust anybody else will. I'd love to see Apple open up the iPhone's NFC features, but at the same time I definitely don't want my payment information anywhere but the secure enclave. Hopefully a solution can be found.

  2. its difficult to dispute the position of Apple. by nimbius · · Score: 4, Insightful

    There are more than four-thousand banking corporations in the Uniited States alone.
    1. Does the aggregate of Australias banking industry authentically believe each corporation should be permitted their own programmatic implementation of contactless banking?
    2. who or what will be liable for breeches in security? as of this foul year of our lord 2016 banks are often furiously reticent in disclosing security breeches let alone taking responsibility for them.
    3. what if any qualifications does a banking institution have that define it as a cogent source for software? Apple has been developing quality hardware and software for a generation now.

    --
    Good people go to bed earlier.
  3. NFC Used Elsewhere by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1, Insightful

    the exclusive use of Australia's existing NFC terminal infrastructure

    - Samsung Pay.
    - Google Pay.
    - NFC enabled credit cards.

  4. Re:shit post by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 5, Insightful

    The NFC terminals were paid for by the merchants. The terminals support several payment schemes.

    It is in my interests as a person who pays for things and as a merchant who pays for and uses payment terminals that IPhone based NFC payments remain as secure as possible and letting thousands of different banks mess with it with thousands of different applications is counterproductive.

    Look beneath the surface and you will see that this is about grabbing a larger share of the merchant's fee.
     

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  5. Re:Apple is beating banks. by Grand+Facade · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Banks charge those fees because they control the industry, it would cost us a lot more if the fee schedule was not proscribed by law.

    Now because Apple wants their cut of the action banks are scrambling to protect their gravy train.
    The banks want to make sure anything Apple gets is on top of what they charge.
    They do not want to pay apple out of their share.

    --
    Rick B.