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Hotel CEO Openly Celebrates Higher Prices After Anti-Airbnb Law Passes (washingtonpost.com)

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Washington Post: A hotel executive said a recently-passed New York law cracking down on Airbnb hosts will enable the company to raise prices for New York City hotel rooms, according to the transcript of the executive's words on a call with shareholders last week. The law, signed by New York's Governor Andrew Cuomo on Friday, slaps anyone who lists their apartment on a short-term rental site with a fine up to $7,500. It "should be a big boost in the arm for the business," Mike Barnello, chief executive of the hotel chain LaSalle Hotel Properties, said of the law last Thursday, "certainly in terms of the pricing." Barnello's comment adds fuel the argument, made repeatedly by Airbnb and its proponents, that a law that was passed in the name of affordable housing also allows established hotels to raises prices for consumers. It was included in a memo written by Airbnb's head of global policy, Chris Lehane, to the Internet Association, a tech trade group, reviewed by the Washington Post. LaSalle, a Bethesda, MD-based chain, owns hotels around the country, including New York City. The memo is the latest volley in a bitter fight that has pit the hotel industry, unions, and affordable housing advocates against Airbnb and its supporters. At the heart of the fight is a debate over the societal value of the Airbnb platform and its role in the economy of cities throughout the world. The question is whether Airbnb has been a net benefit, by enabling middle class city-dwellers to make extra money by renting out their homes, or whether it has had the unintended consequence of exacerbating affordable housing crises in expensive cities such as New York and Los Angeles.

42 of 310 comments (clear)

  1. except it wasn't people renting out their rooms by known_coward_69 · · Score: 5, Informative

    here in NYC data from AirBnb showed that most of the apartments for rent for always available for rent because the owners were making more money on it then renting them out as housing. in a lot of cases it was affordable housing with special tax breaks being used as a money maker

    1. Re:except it wasn't people renting out their rooms by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

      However the law shouldn't had been such a blanket ban, but more targeted towards people who abuse the service. Stipulations such as a minimum living time, in the building by the owners say 200 days a year. Rules to insure that safety and equality measures are taken place as AirBnB does have a problem with people excluding minorities. In essence to make sure people who are using the service are not playing by a different set of rules.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:except it wasn't people renting out their rooms by lucm · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Airbnb and hosts make money at the expense of the neighbors. That's abuse by itself.

      You live in a nice quiet condo tower, and then suddenly it's 24x7 party next door because the unit is being rented on Airbnb. What can you do? It's a new temporary tenant every fee days so even if you complain this start overs the following week.

      Hotels are equipped for this and designed for this. Residential buildings are not. It's unfair to put this burden on neighbors just so the host and a startup can make a few bucks.

      --
      lucm, indeed.
    3. Re:except it wasn't people renting out their rooms by mi · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Yet again, the old truth manifests itself. When you meddle with the free market, you only make things worse... The cental planning of command-and-control economies — such as that of New York City — is not only less fair, but also less efficient, than free market capitalism.

      --
      In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    4. Re:except it wasn't people renting out their rooms by thegarbz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You live in a nice quiet condo tower, and then suddenly it's 24x7 party next door because the unit is being rented on Airbnb.

      All your airbnb's turn into a 24/7 party? What they hell are you guys doing? Most of the time I see AirBnb's empty during the day and having several passed out tourists snoring in beds at night. I challenge your assertion that the place suddenly turns into a party room.

    5. Re:except it wasn't people renting out their rooms by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Interesting

      This is just it. My parents run an airbnb in Australia for the most part they see their customers for an hour or two in the evening, and then briefly in the morning for breakfast. The rest of the time they are passed out from their busy travel days.

    6. Re:except it wasn't people renting out their rooms by ooloorie · · Score: 2

      Libertarians object to subsidized housing in the first place. If you don't subsidize housing, you don't have to worry about people renting out subsidized housing on AirBnB.

    7. Re:except it wasn't people renting out their rooms by sed+quid+in+infernos · · Score: 2

      And there is strong evidence that current zoning policies have contributed a lot to the unaffordability of housing in cities. That's not to say that all zoning regulation is bad. But as implemented, they make it much harder to afford housing in many places.

    8. Re:except it wasn't people renting out their rooms by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 4, Insightful
      AirBnB's propaganda misstates what the law says.

      http://www.nytimes.com/2016/10/22/technology/new-york-passes-law-airbnb.html

      Since 2010, it has been illegal in New York to rent out a whole apartment for fewer than 30 days. But some tenants and landlords have ignored those rules and have been using Airbnb to rent out their apartments for much shorter periods.

      The law does not preclude you from offering a room for rent on AirBnB in an apartment you continue to reside in, i.e., while you are present. Bottom line is that you must continue to live there during the rental period, sort of like taking on a short-term roommate. Perfectly legal.

      The law doesn't even preclude you from subletting or renting your entire apartment on AirBnB, provided that the rental period is 30 days or longer. That brings the rental under New York's apartment rental laws, and gives the person who rents the apartment certain rights that they would not have had with a shorter rental period. Perfectly legal.

      The law does preclude you from renting an apartment for fewer than 30 days in which you will not be also residing during the rental period.

      TL;DR : the law is intended to prevent landlords from turning their apartment stock into hotel rooms.

      Cry me a river for AirBnB and for the landlords who have been abusing the already existing NYC law to extort even more money from their already overpriced NYC housing inventory. They bought their apartments knowing what the law was; they just figured that nobody would bother enforcing it. Well, surprise, surprise, surprise!

    9. Re:except it wasn't people renting out their rooms by ooloorie · · Score: 4, Insightful

      You wouldn't dream of imposing such restrictions on property owners, did I get that right?

      No, you got it wrong. I have no problems with imposing restrictions on property owners, I have a problem with such restrictions being imposed through a political process that necessarily ends up being corrupt.

      It is perfectly fine for my HOA to decide, according to our own rules, to prohibit AirBnB rentals.

      It is not fine for the hotel lobby to corrupt the political process in order to prohibit other private property owners from competing with them, while they themselves don't bear the cost of the restrictions they impose.

      So I guess you're not going to complain about me opening that rendering plant next to your home, right?

      As for the "rendering plant", you couldn't build that next to my house since the private property association that I'm a member of doesn't allow it; in effect, I paid for being protected from such land use. If, on the other hand, I had converted a building in an industrial area to residential use, then I wouldn't object to my neighbor building a rendering plant; there would be no basis for such an objection.

      What you are saying is that you want to buy unrestricted land at a low price, and then later impose restrictions on other property owners without paying for them. That's what a lot of property owners are trying to do, and it's wrong.

    10. Re:except it wasn't people renting out their rooms by naubol · · Score: 2

      Corrupt, terrible, awesome, tremendous, disaster. I feel like powerful words have lost all their power through capricious use.

      Hotel owners are part of the polity and deserve to have a voice in government. Hotel owners were not the only ones asking for this. Corruption is a serious charge which you throw out with no evidence. Maybe your point is that they have undue influence?

      It wasn't the land owners that decided the original zoning in your stated example. There's a reason that these things are decided at a more encompassing level than just HOAs.

      --
      Reality is a slackware box running on a 386 tucked away in god's sock drawer.
    11. Re:except it wasn't people renting out their rooms by Swave+An+deBwoner · · Score: 2

      It sounds like your parents would be in compliance with the NY laws then, because they are living in the place that they have listed on airbnb. They "see their customers for an hour or two in the evening, and then briefly in the morning for breakfast". Perfectly legal in NY also under the present law.

    12. Re:except it wasn't people renting out their rooms by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 2

      My observations are that the more the government gets involved in making things "affordable" the less affordable those things are.

      Ummm... except for vaccines, flood insurance, home loans (if black/latino), fire protection, car insurance, phone service, food, GPS, postal services, etc.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    13. Re:except it wasn't people renting out their rooms by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      It is not fine for the hotel lobby to corrupt the political process in order to prohibit other private property owners from competing with them,

      Is it fine for the hotel lobby to advocate for the political process to apply the same obligations and restrictions to AirBNB as they are expected to follow? The reason AirBNB does it cheaper and can compete with, say, Hilton, is because AirBNB claims it is exempt from many of the taxes, restrictions, and other regulations that hotels fall under, apparently, because "the internet."

      Same thing with Uber.

      If you want to talk corrupt - how about the companies that are ignoring or circumventing (you might even say, willfully corrupting!) regulations that everybody else providing the same services is subject to? What makes AirBNB special - why is it moral for a homeowner to "make extra money", but immoral for Hilton to try and "make extra money"? Why should Hilton be subject to these rules and regulations, but AirBNB shouldn't be? All you've done is assert "corruption!" without any evidence, while ignoring the fact that you're basically saying "my team should win, because... intarwebz!"

      What you are saying is that you want to buy unrestricted land at a low price, and then later impose restrictions on other property owners without paying for them. That's what a lot of property owners are trying to do, and it's wrong.

      At some point, many NYC hotels weren't subject to all of the taxes and regulations they are subject to today. Someone later came along and imposed restrictions on those property owners without paying for them.

      Why should we sympathetic to AirBNB, but not Marriott, exactly? If you want to enter the "room for rent" game, why shouldn't you be subject to the same set of rules and regulations that every other existing "room for rent" business is subject to?

    14. Re:except it wasn't people renting out their rooms by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

      Municipalities impose all kinds of zoning ordinances on property owners. Neighborhoods zoned for residential use are cordoned off from business interests

      So freelancers working from home can't live there, for example?

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    15. Re:except it wasn't people renting out their rooms by fluffernutter · · Score: 2

      Name any successful city that has grown better without regulation and we shall discuss.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  2. taxes by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Interesting

    The law is there because the city is missing out on the tourist taxes hotels collect. Higher prices means more tax for the city, a win for everyone except the tourist. If Airbnb finds a way to pay the taxes these laws won't spread.

    1. Re:taxes by rudy_wayne · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The law is there because the city is missing out on the tourist taxes hotels collect. Higher prices means more tax for the city, a win for everyone except the tourist. If Airbnb finds a way to pay the taxes these laws won't spread.

      There's nothing to prevent AirBnB from paying those taxes now. But the whole purpose of AirBnB's existence is to be in the house/apartment rental business but but pretend that they aren't so they can *AVOID* all the rules and fees that everyone else has to pay. Same with Uber and all the others. They just want to be a middleman who does nothing but skim a few dollars from every transaction, with no accountability to anyone.

    2. Re:taxes by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2, Insightful

      they can *AVOID* all the rules and fees that everyone else has to pay.

      And yet, liberals fail to see the actual problem. So, instead of recognizing the problem (too many fees and rules), they create more fees and rules designed to prevent people from avoiding all the previous fees and rules. And when someone figures a way around that, they add more fees and rules.

      The real problem is, that nobody is stopping long enough to ask do we need more fees and rules to protect the people who have set the barriers to entry protecting their industries?

      The biggest gripe I've seen is that the "Tourists" aren't "paying their fair share", as if the city has a right to highway robbery under the guise of being the Lord of the land, and claiming it is to protect the serfs that serve the Lord.

      --
      Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
    3. Re:taxes by slack_justyb · · Score: 2

      And yet, liberals fail to see the actual problem.

      Hey, hey, hey there... It's not just limited to liberals. I live in the "deep south" surrounded by some of the biggest conservatives out there, and there's tons of folks around these parts that act like airbnb is some kind of liberator to their "freedom". You just stop and say, "um, you could have totally rented out your place before airbnb was invented WTF?!"

  3. Re:Good by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    When everybody must be a taxi driver or run Mom's Boarding House to make ends meet, sure, the economy sucks balls. On the other hand, if you have a better idea, we're all ears.

  4. Capitalism? by MeNeXT · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It seems that every time we have a good example of capitalism the entrenched players come in and justify why it doesn't work. There is no way that capitalism will ever exist in it's true form because the established payers have no incentive to allow it. That's one reason but this article mentions another, subsidized housing (socialist solution that encourages lower wages).

    There is no right or wrong here if the playing field would just remain constant but as soon as there is a way that the little guy can make a profit the rules change. I may be over simplifying the problem but the way I see it if rules were not written to favor one citizen over another then maybe we would see the wealth evenly distributed.

    --
    DRM? No thanks, I'll just get it somewhere else...
    1. Re:Capitalism? by RandomSurfer314 · · Score: 2

      There is no way that capitalism will ever exist in it's true form

      I very much hope so.

    2. Re:Capitalism? by meta-monkey · · Score: 2

      And comrade, as soon as world communism is established the Politburo will disband but until then it is only reasonable for ministers to have second dacha to recuperate from all hard work they do on behalf of the people.

      --
      We don't have a state-run media we have a media-run state.
    3. Re:Capitalism? by roman_mir · · Score: 2

      'wealth evenly distributed' - well that's a nonsensical idea. Wealth cannot and should not be 'evenly distributed', somebody will always be more efficient than many other people, thus wealth will never be 'evenly distributed', nor should it be.

    4. Re:Capitalism? by atrimtab · · Score: 2
      Pure Capitalism over time only exacerbates inequality for all but a very few who accumulate the vast majority of capital. And given that "corporations are immortal people" with less liability than real people, capital accumulated by all means fair or foul will simply flow to such entities that never are forced to disperse that capital at death unlike real "people." In addition, multi-national immortal corporations will play arbitrage games with income, finance, currency, futures, derivatives, employment, externalities, and property to maximize their returns across the world by gaming various separately governed regions against each other while propagandizing that they are "making the world better" without ever revealing the real trade-offs and consequences of their deliberate actions to the populations of the regions they operate across or the "shareholders of planet earth"

      .

      It's more complex than that and a post is inadequate to fully explain all the issues. But capitalism without regulation and checks on accumulation is and will create a guaranteed dystopia of corporate kings, their goons and human serfs given the changes in law that have accelerated since the Reagan Administration.

      .

      This is what happens when the only responsibility of a corporation is to provide the best return to shareholders and executives.

      --
      Facebook is billions of individual "Skinner Boxes." And if you use it you are the pigeon!
  5. Re:I would openly celebrate, too by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Using the state to fight your competition is called crony capitalism and gets more opposition from capitalists than commies.

  6. Neighborhoods, not hotels or housing stock by ZipK · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Consistently lost in the discussion of protecting hotel trade or preserving housing stock is the negative affect Airbnb has on neighborhoods. People buy houses in residential neighborhoods to enjoy the benefits of... residential neighborhoods. Introducing an unknown, transient stream of tourists and other visitors into stable neighborhoods is generally a net-negative for the neighbors. Airbnb allows individuals to unilaterally monetize the peace and safety of their neighbors. That is the problem with Airbnb.

  7. I'm confused... by kenh · · Score: 5, Interesting

    It is newsworthy/noteworthy that reduced competition leads to higher prices?

    From what I understand, cities like NYC have very carefully-crafted laws regarding hotels designed to protect the rights and safety of both the hotelier and the guest. AirBnB wants to be exempt from all those regulations and hospitality taxes because, well, it allows them to offer a lower-cost option without any significant investment. In effect, AirBnB wants to be a hotelier that owns no hotel rooms, pays no hospitality taxes, and has no legal responsibility for anything that happens in a space they rented.

    That AirBnB can't pick and choose the tax, safety, and other regulations that apply to their 'service' isn't discriminatory against AirBnB, it is treating everyone equally.

    --
    Ken
    1. Re:I'm confused... by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Insightful

      cities like NYC have very carefully-crafted laws regarding hotels designed to protect the rights and safety of both the hotelier and the guest

      I'm sure this is exactly what happened as shown by this example of the powerful hotel lobby. It's all for guest safety. /sarcsam

  8. So why don't these owners that want to do this.... by mark-t · · Score: 5, Interesting

    ... just get a bed and breakfast license, and then be exempt anyways? Home-based business licenses aren't *THAT* expensive, after all.

    While it means you'd have to pay tax on the money you make from rentals... that's what you were supposed to be doing all along, right?

  9. Re:So? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 2

    And there is evidence that rents are lower as a result of this regulation/law?

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
  10. I protest by fulldecent · · Score: 2, Interesting

    Whereas my agreements with temporary tenants are mutually consensual
    and there are no complaints from my neighbors
    and justification for this law is to control housing prices
    now therefore I do not recognize the legislature's authority to make this regulation.

    I will continue to rent out my room in short terms. But I will now call it a long-term lease with early cancellation provisions. Or I will call it a house sale with temporary back-out period. Or I'll call it housesitting.

    This generation is finally getting involved in local politics in the best way. They are circumventing the letter of unjust laws and following the spirit of the correct constitution. This demonstrates knowledge of law, civil disobedience and allegiance to the constitution, what could be better?

    --

    -- I was raised on the command line, bitch

  11. Re:Duh by Archangel+Michael · · Score: 2

    http://fortune.com/2016/10/25/...

    The Obamacare "Chickens have come home to roost". Everything predicted is coming to fruition, and the people who created the mess, are all running around saying that they are the only ones able to fix the mess they created.

    How does that work?

    It doesn't. It can't. It was never supposed to work. It was simply the path to single payer that liberals want. They just lied to get the whole thing going.

    Next up the anecdotal evidence "I have insurance now, even though I have cancer" stories.

    --
    Agent K: A *person* is smart. People are dumb, stupid, panicky animals, and you know it.
  12. Why Statists love rent-control by mi · · Score: 3, Interesting

    such yuuuge failures, the lot of them, amirite? /s

    Not sure about these other regions, but the housing situation in NYC — and that's the topic — surely is a failure. The rent-control was introduced to the city in 1943 as a temporary measure to protect families of servicemen from "greedy landlords" jacking up the prices, while the men were at war. Housing remains very expensive. Landlords wary of difficulties evicting bad tenants are very particular about who they rent to — insisting on credit-reports, income tax return-copies, and background checks.

    Meanwhile, well-connected politicians — especially the "fighters for affordable housing" get such subsidized apartments for themselves — and not just one, but up to four sometimes.

    Unfair, inefficient, corruption-prone — what's not to like about Statism?

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
  13. Re:Using the law to give himself an unfair advanta by MitchDev · · Score: 3, Funny

    You mis-spelled "Republican", not "Muslim"

  14. Re:Using the law to give himself an unfair advanta by Opportunist · · Score: 2

    Seems slandering Jews as moneybags got out of fashion while I wasn't looking. New scapegoat, yay.

    Just like the old Armenian said: My dear Children, treasure the Jews. Because who do you think they will come for should they be gone?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  15. Support your claim by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When you meddle with the free market, you only make things worse

    What makes you think things are worse or less fair? Obviously, any distribution of resources, compared to any other distribution is going to be good for some people and worse for others. I'll say, not only does this rule make things better for the far majority of people, it also makes things far better for the vast majority of people who can vote in NYC elections.

    Winnners:

    1. Hotels - Obvious
    2. Neighbors of AirBnB rentals (at least many) - Many neighbors dislike being next to an AirBnB. This keeps them from having to
    3. NYC - NY gets a cut of hotel rates (but not AirBnB), hotel rates going up is good for them.
    4. Renters - AirBnB was driving up rental prices, because it was introducing an alternate demand for the resource (apartments) to turn into microtels.
    5. Law and Order - Many of these AirBnB rentals were in violation of the very leases that the free market provided to the people subletting on AirBnB. (Note, a lot of those rules were because of the 'neighbors point above')
    6. Law and Order (2) - There are many rules about leasing short-term accommodations that were not being followed.

    Losers:

    1. AirBnB - This one's obvious.
    2. Non-rent-controlled landlords - Rents are going to go down.
    3. Visitors to NYC who stayed in hotels - Prices are going up.

    Uncertain:

    1. Visitors who were going to stay in AirBnBs - They'll either have to not come or get pushed to a hotel. However, they also get all the benefits of a regulated experience, which may be worth it. That's a big question mark.

    Why shouldn't a city be able to look at those tradeoffs and make a decision?

    --
    Your ad here. Ask me how!
    1. Re:Support your claim by fluffernutter · · Score: 2

      Fine, then modify your apartment so that no noise could theoretically get out of it and rent it out. Until you do that, you are NOT just doing what you want within your walls.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  16. Re:Using the law to give himself an unfair advanta by kenwd0elq · · Score: 5, Insightful

    This is actually known as "rent-seeking"; a businessman uses the power of government to attack other businesses. Because it's easier for a big business to get the government to attack small businesses (because small businesses don't have a gross of lawyers on retainer) than it is for the big business to actually do BUSINESS in an efficient way.

  17. Easy solution by tacokill · · Score: 2

    Call the police and have the police arrest them -- because growing weed and making meth are illegal regardless of where it's being done (sans marijuana legal states). Obviously, private property rights aren't unlimited but running a drug lab in your home is a far cry from taking a few bucks from tourists for glorified house sitting.

    It's clear to me that this is just the rent seekers (hotel owners) trying to keep the competition out (the AirBnB model). It has nothing to do with safety or property rights issues except that the hotel owners have employed their local politicians to help them pass the necessary laws. It's pretty obvious what is going on, no?

  18. Re: except it wasn't people renting out their room by fluffernutter · · Score: 2

    There are still zones in this example.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.