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YouTube's Seven-Year Stand-off Ends (bbc.com)

Posted by msmash on from the stand-off dept.

YouTube has resolved a long-running dispute that prevented many of its clips being accessible in Germany. The Google-owned video service had been at odds with Gema - a German rights body representing musicians, composers and publishers - since 2009. From a report on BBC:The disagreement had affected clips in which the artists appeared as well as those that used their songs in the background. Payments will now be made, but neither side has disclosed the terms. Google's Content ID system means that clips flagged as containing Gema-protected tracks can now have adverts automatically added to them to recompense the songs' creators. And red banners that had prevented thousands of YouTube's clips from playing in Germany have now been removed as a consequence. "This is a win for music artists around the world, enabling them to reach new and existing fans in Germany... and for YouTube users in Germany, who will no longer see a blocking message on music content," blogged YouTube's head of international music partnerships, Christophe Muller.

44 comments

  1. Both Gema and Youtube are at fault. by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    The Gema claims to be there for the artists, but they are just about one of the most annoying German authorities out there. Example: You can't just play music in your cafe, you have to pay fees to the Gema. Pretty steep ones too.

    Likewise we know how much Youtube cares about artists publishing their stuff on Youtube - not at all.

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
    1. Re:Both Gema and Youtube are at fault. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You can't just play music in your cafe, you have to pay fees to the Gema

      Fairly standard - the CD doesn't license you for public performance only for private listening. Certainly within Europe most (all?) countries have some sort of performing rights licensing organisation.

    2. Re:Both Gema and Youtube are at fault. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      That's not what's wrong with GEMA. Its legal status allows it to claim any music for their artists, unless you provide them with a list of the songs you play and prove that you have a license to play them. If there's one song on the list with an unclear status, you pay exactly as much as if you had been playing GEMA artists the whole time. Even if you only play 100% certain CC songs at a public event, GEMA will come after you. Don't have a complete playlist? Pay up. And yes, they do send people to check that you only play what's on your playlist.

    3. Re:Both Gema and Youtube are at fault. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just like the UK. I would make a point of only playing classical music and other works from the public domain, and GEMA can screw right off.

    4. Re:Both Gema and Youtube are at fault. by alex67500 · · Score: 1

      Yep, same thing in France and the UK. You have to pay a fee. If you organise a festival or a town fair and want to play music, same. And also if you organise sporting events where the competitors use music (ice skating, gymnastics etc.).

    5. Re:Both Gema and Youtube are at fault. by GuB-42 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Sure but GEMA has a few things to make it even worse :
      - If you play music from independent musicians, you have to prove that not a single one of them is affiliated to GEMA. If you fail to do it for even a single title, you pay full price. Guilty unless proven innocent.
      - Artists affiliated to GEMA have to pay GEMA fees for playing their own music. They may get a refund in some conditions.
      - GEMA is governed by its full members, and only the most financially successful artists can become full members, the others have no say. Unsurprisingly, full members also get the lion share of the benefits.

    6. Re:Both Gema and Youtube are at fault. by known_coward_69 · · Score: 1

      same in the USA, except here it's called ASCAP

    7. Re:Both Gema and Youtube are at fault. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The Belgian equivalent just asks money for any event, even when there is no music. Our old theater group had to learn the hard way. We were fined 5 million Belgian Franks (about 125,000 euro) because we acted a self written play. The SABAM (the Belgian Gema) claimed ownership of the play written by our director. It was the dead of a 231 year old amateur theater in 1993 (older than the French revolution, when our region was still part of the Austrian Empire that fought illiteracy and encouraged these kind of theaters connected to schools).

    8. Re:Both Gema and Youtube are at fault. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      same in the USA, except here it's called ASCAP

      You mean ASSCRAP...

  2. "This is a win for music artists around the world" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Redundant

    Yay, more artists for me to download their music for free!

    Seriously, downloading music off of YouTube is the easiest thing in the world (and movies/TV shows). YouTube is currently the #1 pirate site online, bigger and better than any torrent site.

  3. The middle-men come to an agreement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I have a feeling that this is not what we really want.

  4. Do Japan next by HideyoshiJP · · Score: 1

    Great job, YouTube. Now work your shit out with Japanese labels - you know, those people you didn't really consider when you decided to roll out YouTube Red based on the user's region, ignoring the fact that lots of people watch videos not made in the US.

  5. GEMA is a german institution with a long tradition by blkhawk · · Score: 2, Interesting

    GEMA is the only german institution that I can think of that managed to preserve all its initial values from its creation in 1933 to the present day.

  6. "This is a win for music artists" by wardrich86 · · Score: 2

    "This is a win for music artists" Sure... I think this is a win for the execs and the labels. I doubt the artists will see any of it.

    1. Re:"This is a win for music artists" by blkhawk · · Score: 2

      AFAIK GEMA actually pays out directly to its member artists. The problem is how the money is distributed. There is a build-in weighting toward more "serious" music (Classical music). Also the Voting internally to GEMA depends on how much money you make through GEMA - that causes some gerrymandering-alike effects.

      I'm not 100% up to date on them but the head of GEMA was a guy who wrote the lyrics for some 1960/70 Songs played traditionally during carneval and still got about a million in yearly fees in the early 2000nds. While its true that these songs are well known in Germany GEMA assigned them to a class of "Standard music" and thus they become more heavily weighted vs. other music.

      Its not unusual for a small GEMA member artist or band to pay more in GEMA-fees for their own events than they get back at the end of the year.

    2. Re:"This is a win for music artists" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >I doubt the artists will see any of it.

      FTS "...now have adverts automatically added to them to recompense the songs' creators".

      Well the vehicle is there Wardrich, (though it may be us viewers that block the ads).

    3. Re:"This is a win for music artists" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Obligatory Eure Mütter - Der Typ, der bei der GEMA die Titel eintippt....

    4. Re:"This is a win for music artists" by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's very hypocritical. They are part of the system. It's their choice too. You don't have to be a GEMA member.

  7. Re:GEMA is a german institution with a long tradit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Enough of the anti-nsdap fear and loathing. Was Ferdinand Porsche also wrong for creating the "peoples car" just because Hitler asked him to do it? Were German gardeners guilty of hate crimes because they fed the soldiers? What about jews in the work camps for providing valuable production to the reich?
    I'm sure that GEMA is a bad organization by their trade of rightsholding but lets not automatically assume that everyone who was a german in the 1930's is the definition of evil.

  8. Re: GEMA is a german institution with a long tradi by chaboud · · Score: 1

    Wow, dude. Way to walk into that... Nobody mentioned Nazis until you showed up...

  9. Re:"This is a win for music artists around the wor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Why was this voted -1? Is it because the guy pirates? It's not like anything he said isn't true.

    This is why this site is going downhill, a lot of -1 modding based on personal opinions...facts should be voted up.

  10. I couldn't care less. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Being in Germany, I still don't give a flying fuck what secret underhanded deals the Stupid Gema and the Greedy Google may have with each other. As far as I am concerned: may both rot in a stinking, cold hell.

    What do I do when I receive a youtube link? Well, I try youtube-dl on it. If it works, meh. If it doesn't -- too bad.

    I'm fed up of Those Feeling Very Important to think they're important for me. They ain't.

    1. Re:I couldn't care less. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot the Stupid Greedy You who wants stuff without providing any recompense.

    2. Re:I couldn't care less. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are an idiot -- or worse, one of those RIAA shills. No, I don't pirate things, I just do my own music and listen to live music (pay entrance). If I want to watch a movie (happens once a month) I go to the cinema.

      I just *don't care* about all that crap out there. It's simply too bad. Even the feeble effort to "pirate" or "steal" it, as you idiots put it is far more than that crap is worth.

      Better things to do with my time. And now please do choke in your own shit.

    3. Re:I couldn't care less. by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

      You forgot the Stupid Greedy You who wants stuff without providing any recompense.

      Fuck off, and feel free to take all your shit that keeps getting regurgitated with no imagination to be sold again and again and again with you. It won't be missed.

      --
      Wanna buy a shirt?
      https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
    4. Re:I couldn't care less. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      a-are you a hacker?

    5. Re:I couldn't care less. by Cederic · · Score: 1

      Well, this should unblock around 400 of my videos in Germany.

      Instead of me making zero money by not having them views in Germany, I'll now make zero money by them being viewed in Germany.

      GEMA will make around $0.07 a year by monetising my IP.

      It's a fucked up system made worse by the absolute inability to avoid it. You can't legally share videos online (in the UK, but sounds like Germany is the same) if they have music in the background. There's no way for 'normal' people to tell what that music is, whether it's copyrighted, who owns the copyright or indeed negotiate an online distribution agreement, particularly one that aligns to the income generated by the video: across 650 videos on Youtube I could monetise them for around $6/year. Good luck getting 700 musicians and their representatives to licence me for all that music for $6/year.

      It's completely fucked up. Either I break the law, I post on Youtube and the media cartels exploit my IP, or I don't share any of the video I capture.

      I can't see the benefits anywhere there for consumers, society or (selfishly) me.

    6. Re:I couldn't care less. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You forgot the Stupid Greedy You who wants stuff without providing any recompense.

      Look, I know this is about paying artists who aren't doing anything any more, but calling them stupid and greedy isn't really fair.

    7. Re:I couldn't care less. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're in UK? Sue Google for taking your IP and paying a German entity for it and demand trial by Jury.

  11. Agreement reaches back to 2009!? by garry_g · · Score: 1

    According to reports, they set up the agreement to reach back to 2009 - I wonder what for! As YouTube has been blocking suspected GEMA music since forever, there's no point in paying anything for unplayed music of the past ... !?

  12. Re: GEMA is a german institution with a long tradi by blkhawk · · Score: 2

    To be fair I strongly implied it - However that was mostly sarcasm. GEMA as an construct is one of the most calcified and hidebound institutions i can think of. They sorta worked in their day but they were pretty much ready for a restructuring by 1970 or so. This restructuring did not happen.

  13. Re: GEMA is a german institution with a long tradi by AC-x · · Score: 1

    We all know what blkhawk was suggesting here

  14. Re: GEMA is a german institution with a long trad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Godwin, youlose.

  15. Re: GEMA is a german institution with a long trad by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Godwin didn't even comment. How can he lose?

  16. Re:"This is a win for music artists around the wor by ninthbit · · Score: 1

    How is ripping off youtube the easiest way to pirate TV and Movies. Flexget reading an RSS feed into Transmission is by far easier... its automatic. Ripping youtube seems about the most convoluted way to get stuff I can imagine.

  17. Re:"This is a win for music artists around the wor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    sure, it's awesome if you want shit compressed worse than quality 3 mp3s. Oh wait, you think they have "high definition" audio lol.

  18. Re:"This is a win for music artists around the wor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    >convoluted
    Right-click -> Save if you use any of the available browser mods.
    Ctrl+V if you're less savvy and use any of the ripping websites.

    So we should see youtube getting sued for "enabling infringement" any day now.

    Oh wait, it isn't owned by commoners.

  19. Re:"This is a win for music artists around the wor by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

    sure, it's awesome if you want shit compressed worse than quality 3 mp3s. Oh wait, you think they have "high definition" audio lol.

    But, but, but, it said HD in the description.

    --
    Wanna buy a shirt?
    https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
  20. Re:GEMA is a german institution with a long tradit by imatter · · Score: 1

    I am pretty sure Ferdinand Porsche's rank was SS Oberführer.

  21. Re: GEMA is a german institution with a long trad by stealth_finger · · Score: 1

    Godwin won, it's in the name.

    --
    Wanna buy a shirt?
    https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
  22. The disagreement has affected ... nobody by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    At least nobody anyone gives a shit about. Germans simply used YouTube proxies and came from Finland, Austria, Russia or if everything fails Malaysia and watched whatever they wanted to watch.

    It was business as usual. Artificial blockages were treated like bugs and routed around. As far as most of Germany was concerned, this was a non-issue.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  23. Ah, Germany ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    No IP protections there and no one wants their junk.

    Take that, Richard Stallman !

  24. Re:GEMA is a german institution with a long tradit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Teutonic Order is one that still exists since 1190. Although it predates Germany and was an supranational (?) organization that was founded to protect pilgrimages to Jerusalem and ultimately organizing Crusades to the Middle East and Eastern Europe. At this moment it has returned back to its roots: the support for Teutonic/Deutch/German speaking Catholics outside the 'Holy Roman Empire', or in modern times outside the German speaking countries.

  25. And Perviously on the Stand-off... by b783719 · · Score: 1

    Gema complained to Youtube saying they are stealing profit. Youtube followed Gema ruling and red banned all those videos.

    With profit lose, now Gema begs youtube to un-red banned all those videos with ads. Youtube again followed their ruling.

    This is an 'undo the fail' for music artists around the world who doesn't understand how to use youtube as benefit in their industry.

    Next stop, (insert another stupid music/record label / music artists industry) complain to youtube saying they are stealing profit...