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Tesla Tells Germany that 98% of Drivers Don't Find the Term 'Autopilot' Misleading (venturebeat.com)

An anonymous reader writes:Tesla has responded to Germany's request to stop using the word "autopilot" in its advertising, due to safety concerns, by carrying out a survey of Tesla-owners in Germany. It says that the overwhelming majority of customers it surveyed did not find the term confusing. Last month, German transport minister Alexander Dobrindt had asked Tesla to stop using "autopilot" in its messaging, as he felt the term implied that drivers could operate their vehicles without applying their attention to the roads. Tesla responded by saying that "autopilot" had been used in aerospace for a long time to describe a system that works in conjunction with a human operator. "Just as in an airplane, when used properly, autopilot reduces driver workload and provides an added layer of safety when compared to purely manual driving," a spokesperson said at the time. Without divulging exact numbers, Tesla has now said that it has "worked with a third party" to survey owners of its cars in Germany to "better understand how they perceive Autopilot." The company found that 98 percent of those surveyed "understand that when using Autopilot, the driver is expected to maintain control of the vehicle at all times."

168 comments

  1. It's that other 2% that is the problem... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    But they won't be for long after they all die in fiery crashes.

    1. Re:It's that other 2% that is the problem... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But they won't be for long after they all die in fiery crashes.

      We're assuming Tesla's survey is accurate.

      Figures don't lie but liars can figure.

      Without divulging exact numbers, Tesla has now said that it has “worked with a third party” to survey owners of its cars in Germany to “better understand how they perceive Autopilot.” The company found that 98 percent of those surveyed “understand that when using Autopilot, the driver is expected to maintain control of the vehicle at all times.”

      Let me make a survey and crunch the numbers, and I'll show that 98% of adults believe in the Easter Bunny.

    2. Re:It's that other 2% that is the problem... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Funny

      In Japanese Teslas, the term they use, translated back to English, is "Divine Wind".

    3. Re:It's that other 2% that is the problem... by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      We're assuming Tesla's survey is accurate.

      More likely that the questions asked were misleading and worded in a way that gave Tesla the result they wanted.

      Either that or they went to pilot schools all over the country to find interview subjects.

      --
      No sig today...
    4. Re:It's that other 2% that is the problem... by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 1

      What does this have to do with my flatulence?

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    5. Re:It's that other 2% that is the problem... by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

      In Japanese Teslas, the term they use, translated back to English, is "Divine Wind".

      Unicorn farts?

      [*ducks*]

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    6. Re:It's that other 2% that is the problem... by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

      What does this have to do with my flatulence?

      Nothing. You're not divine.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    7. Re:It's that other 2% that is the problem... by the_Bionic_lemming · · Score: 1

      Ahh, but the smell is...

      --
      _ _ _ Go for the eyes Boo! GO FOR THE EYES!
    8. Re:It's that other 2% that is the problem... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In Japanese Teslas, the term they use, translated back to English, is "Divine Wind".

      [chortle]
      kamikaze is likely a form of harakiri or seppuku.

    9. Re:It's that other 2% that is the problem... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      I have a Tesla. Tesla makes it very, very clear what the capabilities and limitations are. Anyone Tesla owner that thinks Autopilot is a "hands off" system is irredeemably stupid, and no amount of explaining or renaming is going to help them. The people that have died in Autopilot crashes were not ignorant, they were stupid and reckless. Since the human gene pool was obviously improved by their deaths, I really don't see the problem here.

    10. Re:It's that other 2% that is the problem... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      (a) Someone old enough to afford a Tesla is probably past having children

      (b) Tesla may make it "very, very clear" to owners, but what about potential customers? "Auto-pilot" DOES sound like a lot like "auto-pilot": the car drives itself, just like a plane can fly and land itself. There's also the issue that this is misleading to potential customers.

    11. Re:It's that other 2% that is the problem... by HuguesT · · Score: 1

      In other words, Kamikaze.

    12. Re:It's that other 2% that is the problem... by hambone142 · · Score: 1

      Funny.

      Autopilot for an airplane means the plane is flown by a computer navigation system without the pilot being involved.

      Autopilot on a boat or ship means the vessel is piloted by a computer navigation system without operator being at the wheel.

      Autopilot for Tesla cars means something different.

    13. Re: It's that other 2% that is the problem... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's *extremely* rare for planes to land using only computer control. It requires very sophistocated instruments to be installed on the plane *and* airport/runway. Such equipment is not installed on the vast majority of runways.

    14. Re: It's that other 2% that is the problem... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Divine Wind "My beef us strong.".
      A.C. "Your beef is wrong!"

  2. There's a problem here. by HBI · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I don't speak German and the word for "autopilot" in German - which I am not going to try to guess - probably has a subtly different meaning than in English. So I don't even know how to judge this article or the issue, and anyone not natively familiar with Deutsch lingo would be in the same state.

    --
    HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    1. Re:There's a problem here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Plus, there may be many people who don't find it misleading because they have been mislead by the use of the term 'autopilot' and think they don't have to pay attention at all.

    2. Re:There's a problem here. by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      Nope, the meaning is exactly the same.
      I guess Tesla just interviewed their own employees and partners, hence the result.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    3. Re:There's a problem here. by twistnatz · · Score: 5, Informative

      The german word for "autopilot" is actually "autopilot" and it has the same meaning than in english.

    4. Re:There's a problem here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As a german I do speak the language, and think the concerns are total bullshit. Its only protectionism to harass non german car companies. German regulators have this total bias.

    5. Re:There's a problem here. by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      The word, by the way, is exactly the same, only the pronunciation is different.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    6. Re:There's a problem here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The word is the same in German. The definition is something that pilots for you, which is what the name implies.

      Als Autopilot wird eine automatische, üblicherweise programmierbare Steuerungsanlage bezeichnet, welche Fortbewegungsmittel auf Wunsch automatisch lenkt, ohne dass Menschen, während der Autopilot aktiv ist, in die Steuerung eingreifen müssen. Elon Moschus genießt Mann Esel.

    7. Re:There's a problem here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      ... probably has a subtly different meaning than...

      That just semantics!

    8. Re:There's a problem here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nobody asked for your opinion - in fact, it is expressly unwarranted.

    9. Re:There's a problem here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TFA makes it clear that the 98% "understand that when using Autopilot, the driver is expected to maintain control of the vehicle at all times", so that would not appear to be the case.

    10. Re:There's a problem here. by HBI · · Score: 1

      Well played.

      --
      HBI's Law: Frequency of calling others Nazis is directly correlated with the likelihood of the accuser being Communist.
    11. Re:There's a problem here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Elon Moschus genießt Mann Esel.

      I'm not sure that Elon Musk translates his last name when dealing with Germans.

    12. Re:There's a problem here. by Kjella · · Score: 1

      I don't speak German and the word for "autopilot" in German - which I am not going to try to guess - probably has a subtly different meaning than in English.

      The word is the same and means the same. But "the car" = "das Auto" (short for automobile) so someone with a very rudimentary understanding of German and ignorant of the roots in aviation might believe it means "car pilot". I don't think that's the real problem though, the moment people see it drives "by itself" they start playing with their phone or something to relieve themselves of the boredom. If they post-hoc claim they misunderstood the word, it's mostly because that puts the blame on Tesla and not themselves. Damn hard to prove people knew they weren't following the rules though.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    13. Re: There's a problem here. by joh · · Score: 3, Informative

      The German word for "autopilot" is "Autopilot". Same meaning too.

    14. Re:There's a problem here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      welche Fortbewegungsmittel auf Wunsch automatisch lenkt

      translates to "which [optionally] drives the vehicle automatically", i.e. without intervention of the passenger. Which is exactly what they're complaining it suggests.

    15. Re:There's a problem here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      >> Elon Moschus genießt Mann Esel.

      I see what you did there.

    16. Re:There's a problem here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      "autopilot" = "augenschlogzeitgistenkingle!"

    17. Re:There's a problem here. by RandomSurfer314 · · Score: 1

      No, Autopilot in German means exactly the same as in English and also has the same connotation.

      But there is just no story here. A company tells their marketing department to conduct a statistically insignificant fake survey. Nothing new. The whole story is about as meaningful as when Coca Cola comes up with a study that shows that soft drinks don't make people fat or when tobacco companies showed that smoking doesn't cause cancer.

    18. Re:There's a problem here. by ClickOnThis · · Score: 1

      Elon Moschus genießt Mann Esel.

      I'm not sure that Elon Musk translates his last name when dealing with Germans.

      The phrase genießt Mann Esel suggests he does, uh, something else when he deals with Germans.

      --
      If it weren't for deadlines, nothing would be late.
    19. Re: There's a problem here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nichtmannauskontrolflugen.

    20. Re:There's a problem here. by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      must be some bavarian dialect then

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    21. Re:There's a problem here. by Skuld-Chan · · Score: 1

      I think in English the word is supposed to mean it automatically pilots my car - which from what I understand it doesn't.

      Why isn't this an issue in America? Other than the boner everyone has for Elon here.

    22. Re:There's a problem here. by Pahroza · · Score: 2

      ow-toe-pee-lowt

    23. Re:There's a problem here. by mspohr · · Score: 1

      I think they should call it "OttoPilot" in Germany.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    24. Re:There's a problem here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sure, that must be it. It has nothing to do with the danger of telling people a flaky driving assistance system is an autonomous driving system.

      I am not German, but I do speak the language and I have been following the car industry for a long time. German regulators are some of the least biased around. It can be dangerous if people using an immature system beyond its design capabilities and it is good that Tesla owners are reminded what the system can and cannot do. There is very little to be gained by German companies from such a warning. It is just a public safety measure.

    25. Re:There's a problem here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're not thinking German enough. Try something like "semiautonomes Lenk- und Steuerungssystem fur Personenkraftwagen"

    26. Re:There's a problem here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You stated it alread: Tesla can do nothing wrong in the US. They continuously make misleading and sometimes outright false claims, they continuously make promises they know they cannot keep, they abuse government subsidies and incentives, they make unreliable and poorly made products that track everything their owners do with it and the stock is essentially a giant Ponzi scheme, but Elon Musk has been declared a saint by the media and anyone who dares to criticise His Muskness is attacked or simplky ignored.

    27. Re:There's a problem here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Autoberechuntiteunthohefleegerpokennicht.

    28. Re:There's a problem here. by haruchai · · Score: 1

      Sure, that must be it. It has nothing to do with the danger of telling people a flaky driving assistance system is an autonomous driving system.

      Tesla doesn't call Autopilot autonomous & Musk stated clearly a couple years ago that the original hardware was insuffficient.
      Now he thinks this updated system is but I disagree - needs at least one rear-facing radar and possibly another on the driver's left side for fast-lane merging

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    29. Re:There's a problem here. by haruchai · · Score: 1

      "but Elon Musk has been declared a saint by the media"

      What a crock of shite. Every move, misstep, crash or fire is roundly scrutinized & criticized.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    30. Re:There's a problem here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      telling people a flaky driving assistance system is an autonomous driving system.

      You trolls are the only ones making this claim.

      Autopilot is not autonomous driving. Autopilot is not autonomous flying.

      It is the same lie that the RIAA uses when they say copyright infringement is theft.

      It is not, and you are lying.

    31. Re:There's a problem here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Something inspired by R Kelly no doubt....

    32. Re:There's a problem here. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Reminds me of a Philips manual I have (apparently english->dutch machine translated).
      Somewhere it states the dutch equivalent of "Country of origin: Porcelain".

    33. Re:There's a problem here. by newcastlejon · · Score: 1

      I think they should call it "OttoPilot" in Germany.

      By your command.

      --
      If God forks the Universe every time you roll a die, he'd better have a damned good memory.
    34. Re:There's a problem here. by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Damn hard to prove people knew they weren't following the rules though.

      It's damned easy in Tesla's case because they won't turn the feature on until the primary driver has had the wonderful safety lecture.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  3. Alternatively by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Tesla tells Germany that 1 in 50 drivers have no clue what the term 'autopilot' means.

    1. Re:Alternatively by Drethon · · Score: 1

      Tesla tells Germany that 1 in 50 drivers have no clue what the term 'autopilot' means.

      1 in 50 drivers (or even 1 in 1000) thinking their car will handle any situation without the driver's help doesn't seem scary. /sarcasm off

    2. Re:Alternatively by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Alternatively, in the US, 1 in 14 drivers really have no clue what driving a car actually entails...

    3. Re:Alternatively by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Actually 49 in 50 don't know what 'autopilot' means, because the dictionary definition of autopilot is not the aerospace definition and does in fact imply no need for human interaction.

    4. Re:Alternatively by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0
      If you RTFA, you'll find exactly what the series of survey questions was that gave them the 98%...
      1. 1) Have you ever used Autopilot before? - 99%
      2. 2) Are you familiar with the car warnings that Tesla provides about how Autopilot is to be properly used? - 98%
      3. 3) Are you aware that when you first enable Autopilot, you have to do so through the Drivers Assistance section of Settings on the center screen? - 93%
      4. 4) Are you aware / Do you know that after enabling Autopilot, you had to agree to an acknowledgment box which stated that Autopilot "is an assist feature that requires you to keep your hands on the steering wheel at all times" and that "similar to the autopilot function in airplanes, you need to maintain control and responsibility for your vehicle" while using Autopilot? - 99%
      5. 5) Do you know that each time you activate Autopilot, a message appears on the screen behind the steering wheel stating: "Please Keep Your Hands On The Wheel; Be Prepared To Take Over At Any Time"? - 96%
      6. 6) Based on these communications, have you understood that when using Autopilot, the driver is expected to maintain control of the vehicle at all times? - 98%
      7. 7) Has the name "Autopilot" caused you to believe that the car is fully autonomous, meaning that it does not require the driver to be supervising the car? - 7%

      TL;DR: So, 98% of the population understands that they're supposed to maintain control of the car while it's on Autopilot. It was 7% who misunderstood the meaning of the word in the context of Tesla's system, until Tesla's warnings and messages cleared it up.

  4. Yeah, but that's the problem by tietokone-olmi · · Score: 3

    There's the 2% who figure that "autopilot" does in fact mean that the car's built-in computer does what the owner means. They may be the same 2% who figure that "cruise control" does that very same thing, but let's forgive them for this one: autopilot does literally mean that the car controls itself, much as automobile means that it moves itself.

    And 2% of all drivers is tens of thousands of cars in Germany alone. By virtue of being heavy machinery, cars can cause terrible damage when they e.g. plow into oncoming traffic, or crowds of pedestrians. Or just a single deadly accident each, for those of us whose horror meters peg out at somewhere around four to six people dead.

    Changing the nomenclature to something that's not quite as marketing-sexy is fairly fucking low a price for even one person not killed by a well-moneyed idiot's misconception. Trust the American billionaire not to see it this way, of course.

    1. Re:Yeah, but that's the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's what I was thinking, the population of some countries is quite large and even half a percent is a whole lot of people. Most of the time misconceptions and similar are essentially harmless, but in this case it seems like just a matter of time before someone is hurt or worse.

    2. Re:Yeah, but that's the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's remarkable how hard it is for the elite to just say "sorry".

      Musk can say: Sorry that Autopilot is misleading, we'll change it to ensure better safety for everyone.

      Trump can say: Sorry for saying racist things during my candidacy. I've learned a lot since then and it won't happen again.

      Hillary: Sorry for my pay to play politics. I realize it was wrong and would like to take steps to eliminate this from politics.

      But no, it's much too hard. Better to cover up one stupid thing with more stupid things.

    3. Re:Yeah, but that's the problem by tietokone-olmi · · Score: 2

      That's the Idiot's America alright: doubling down on teh dumb.

    4. Re:Yeah, but that's the problem by pastafazou · · Score: 1

      And 2% of all drivers is tens of thousands of cars in Germany

      But 2% of all Tesla drivers in Germany is less than a hundred...https://electrek.co/2016/04/11/tesla-model-s-deliveries-germany-q1-2016/

    5. Re:Yeah, but that's the problem by fazig · · Score: 1

      Unfortunately, in our stupid societies (Germany included) apologizing and or admitting to be wrong is easily interpreted as a sign of utter incompetence.
      It doesn't matter if someone admits being wrong or starts to compromise in order to find a better solution or approximate the truth.
      All that matters is winning the argument.
      So what they have to do, in order to not appear weak and incompetent, is to stand by their bullshit by finding whatever excuses are possible, no matter how wrong it is. And if all fails, just keep repeating the lie until the majority accepts it as a truth.

    6. Re:Yeah, but that's the problem by RandomSurfer314 · · Score: 1

      And the good thing for Tesla is: They will soon be dead anyway.

    7. Re:Yeah, but that's the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am willing to bet the % of drivers who drive beyond the specified maximum road speed limit is much higher than 2%. So we should solve that by .. banning cars?

    8. Re:Yeah, but that's the problem by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      It's going to get worse now that Tesla has introduced Autopilot V2, which they claim will eventually be a real self-driving vehicle. How many people will be confused as to which version they have?

      --
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      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    9. Re:Yeah, but that's the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Which makes it a great time to change the name. Not many users yet.

    10. Re:Yeah, but that's the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      But 2% of all Tesla drivers in Germany is less than a hundred

      Survivor bias and the reason why there are so few Tesla drivers around.

    11. Re:Yeah, but that's the problem by david_thornley · · Score: 2

      A speeding driver is a lot less dangerous than one who isn't paying attention. Actually, a speeding driver can be safer than a non-speeding driver. Speed makes accidents worse, but going with the flow of traffic makes accidents less likely.

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
    12. Re:Yeah, but that's the problem by Knuckles · · Score: 1

      Cruise Control in German is usually called Tempomat (though it's actually a Daimler brand name). The formal name is Geschwindigkeitsregelanlage == velocity control facility. There should be no confusion about what it does.

      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
    13. Re:Yeah, but that's the problem by Knuckles · · Score: 1

      Autopilot V2 works well in Germany!

      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
    14. Re:Yeah, but that's the problem by haruchai · · Score: 1

      None. Because the older cars won't be able to drive themselves.

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    15. Re: Yeah, but that's the problem by bestweasel · · Score: 1

      Though the autopilot inexplicably insists on driving to England.

    16. Re:Yeah, but that's the problem by evilbessie · · Score: 1

      2% of people who have bought into Tesla, not 2% of people. Who would think that early adopters might be drinking the powered water enhancer?

    17. Re: Yeah, but that's the problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, we got it.

      Next time try contributing something to the discussion.

    18. Re: Yeah, but that's the problem by bestweasel · · Score: 1

      Sorry, that was a bit insensitive. I did contribute the last twice this topic came up on Slashdot but went for the easy gag this time.

  5. Autopilots in planes do not fly by themselves by jfdavis668 · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    The pilot is required to be constantly at the controls ready to take over. This use of the word also applies to cars. Problem is people get dependent on it. See Air France 447 for an example. The autopilot disengaged, and the pilots proceeded to do everything wrong and crashed the jet. You also have to take into account that the pilots/drivers might have the same accident with or without the autopilot. There are lots of accidents each year caused by drivers. Having the car automatically avoiding most of them may cut down the overall accident rate, even if it fails in certain situations.

    1. Re:Autopilots in planes do not fly by themselves by 0100010001010011 · · Score: 1

      The problem is most people aren't pilots. I would bet a large part of the population thinks that that is exactly how an airplane works.

    2. Re:Autopilots in planes do not fly by themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Yes; and any pilot knows that. But, the public perception is that the pilot just turns it on and has a nap.

      The overwhelming majority of people would survive one round of Russian Roulette; that fact doesn't make it a safe game.

    3. Re:Autopilots in planes do not fly by themselves by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      The pilot is required to be constantly at the controls ready to take over. This use of the word also applies to cars. Problem is people get dependent on it.

      The problem is most people outside the aviation industry assume autopilot does pretty much everything, when in reality it just maintains speed and altitude along a preprogrammed route. They should really rename it to "Copilot", as the reality is closer to PM/PF. Autopilot is doing the flying(PF), but the driver should be paying attention(monitoring) at all times to make sure the Autopilot doesn't screw up and should be ready to take over at any time(PM). I know this isn't exactly like PM/PF, but at least it might be a little less confusing for lay people than autopilot.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    4. Re:Autopilots in planes do not fly by themselves by houghi · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I know Russian Roulette and can calculate the odds, but if you do not know the difference between a pistol and a revolver, your calculations might be a little bit off.

      --
      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    5. Re:Autopilots in planes do not fly by themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This. Most people think the pilots program the route, take off, press a button to enable the autopilot, then can let go of the controls, stand up and move around the cabin and aren't needed again until landing. In reality they're constantly monitoring the systems, route, airspace, making small corrections and talking to traffic control.

    6. Re:Autopilots in planes do not fly by themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The pilot can still hand full control over to the copilot to have comfort breaks. Still not sure that'd be the right term. Something like 'Driving assist' might be better - explicitly stating it's assisting *you* drive, not replacing you. Of course long term Tesla does want the autopilot to have 100% control so that's probably why they haven't done so.

    7. Re:Autopilots in planes do not fly by themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      The real problem is that the existence of the feature only makes sense if you can leave AutoPilot in control and stop paying attention. If I've got to be fully focussed on the road at all times, and ready to take control at a moments notice, I might as well drive the ****ing car myself. So a lot of people, while fully understanding that technically you're supposed to pay attention while AutoPilot is engaged, also probably fully intend to not always comply with that expectation.

      Now whether calling it "AutoPilot" has any material impact on that, versus calling it some more descriptive name, I personally kind of doubt. If it was called "Intelligent Driver Assist" or whatever, it wouldn't change the fact that you've seen the demos and youtube videos, and read the description in the brochure, and decided to pay several thousand euros for the feature, so you're probably going to use it however you intended to use it.

    8. Re:Autopilots in planes do not fly by themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Just as soon as we regulate drivers and start to require significant training and practice for operating an automobile, rather than licensing any twat with a pulse and correctable eyesight, we can start comparing airplane and automobile pilots.

      My brother is a pilot - to get to the plane he's flying now (Airbus 3** series and, along the way, bombers courtesy of the US Air Force), he's spent YEARS in training, simulators, check flights, and practice hours.

      To get your license, you need - what, 12 hours of "supervised practice" and to pass a dead-simple multiple choice test and a road test that basically involves you not crashing the car while you drive around the block once? Fuck that.

    9. Re:Autopilots in planes do not fly by themselves by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      The problem is most people outside the aviation industry assume autopilot does pretty much everything, when in reality it just maintains speed and altitude along a preprogrammed route.

      Depends on the autopilot. Category III and later autopilots can automatically land in autoland-compliant airports. And that functionality isn't particularly uncommon these days. And ACAS-capable planes will at least attempt to avoid a mid-air collision as well, but this hardware is relatively rare, I think.

      What makes autopilot on the ground so different is how much higher the risk of travel path incursion is, whether temporarily (by other vehicles, pedestrians, or potholes) or permanently (by curbs, center barriers, etc.).

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

    10. Re:Autopilots in planes do not fly by themselves by cellocgw · · Score: 1

      I know Russian Roulette and can calculate the odds, but if you do not know the difference between a pistol and a revolver, your calculations might be a little bit off.

      Kinda depends on the model eh? I would submit that knowing which pistol (or revolver) is in use is more important than known what mechanical mechanism is used to feed fresh ammo to the chamber.

      --
      https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
    11. Re:Autopilots in planes do not fly by themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The pilot is required to be constantly at the controls ready to take over.

      Note that this also means something completely different in the context of a car. How much time do you have between the autopilot of a plane no longer doing its job and a deadly crash? Mostly there is nothing else for miles. For a car a crash is likely within a few seconds, but hey the autopilot did a hard shutdown a few moments before the airbags were deployed so it was clearly the drivers fault.

    12. Re:Autopilots in planes do not fly by themselves by MitchDev · · Score: 1

      Not to mention that pilots don't share the same road with other vehicles less than 6-10 feet (2-3 meters) away from them almost constantly amd with regular complete stops needed regularly. Not to mention that planes don't really have to worry about other cars, children, animals, etc suddenly crossing the road in front of them....

    13. Re:Autopilots in planes do not fly by themselves by MitchDev · · Score: 1

      Yes, but if you are using a clip, it's not going to click on an empty chamber unless you are out of rounds.... ;)

    14. Re:Autopilots in planes do not fly by themselves by MitchDev · · Score: 1

      If you still have to be alert and ready to take over at fraction of second's notice, that sounds a hell of a lot more stressful than regular driving....

    15. Re:Autopilots in planes do not fly by themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      What kinds of pistols use clips? If you don't know the difference between clip and magazine, maybe don't try and play smartass here.

    16. Re:Autopilots in planes do not fly by themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you are playing russian roulette with anyhting that has a clip or a magazine you are doing it wrong.

      However, I am pretty certain that the comment was more keyed to the idea that an auto feed weapon with one round in it is more likley to go off that a revolver with only one round in the cylinder.

    17. Re:Autopilots in planes do not fly by themselves by Nidi62 · · Score: 2

      The problem is most people outside the aviation industry assume autopilot does pretty much everything, when in reality it just maintains speed and altitude along a preprogrammed route.

      Depends on the autopilot. Category III and later autopilots can automatically land in autoland-compliant airports. And that functionality isn't particularly uncommon these days. And ACAS-capable planes will at least attempt to avoid a mid-air collision as well, but this hardware is relatively rare, I think.

      What makes autopilot on the ground so different is how much higher the risk of travel path incursion is, whether temporarily (by other vehicles, pedestrians, or potholes) or permanently (by curbs, center barriers, etc.).

      The thing about CAT II/III autoland is that you are doing it at a fixed location along a known and restricted path and it can only be done under certain conditions, and you know the flight crew isn't using it as a chance to crack open some beers and pregame before they hit the layover hotel bar, they are paying attention in case they need to take over or initiate a go around. Just like Tesla's autopilot.

      --
      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
    18. Re:Autopilots in planes do not fly by themselves by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      It is just not human nature to pay attention to something for a long period of time that you do not have a physical connection with. If you must steer the wheel, then you are involved. If you don't steer the wheel you are not involved and attention will wander. No page in an instruction book will change human behavior. I would say someone intelligent enough to lead a business should understand people better, but usually they are sociopaths that don't understand people at all and don't see a need to understand people, or they are comfortable enough that they can let others assume the risk (by adding a page in the instruction manual). They should hire some psychologists to guide their human interfaces and not rely entirely on engineers.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    19. Re:Autopilots in planes do not fly by themselves by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      I said this once and someone told me that Tesla does have training sessions?

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    20. Re:Autopilots in planes do not fly by themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The difference between a pistol and a revolver? I honestly believed that [pistols] is a superset of [revolvers]. Let's go check Wikipedia...

      Revolvers might be regarded as a subset of pistols, or as an equal-ranking subset of handguns, distinct from pistols.

      Alright, apparently there are two different yet valid usages of the word "pistol". Depending on which you use, either a revolver is a pistol or a revolver is not a pistol. Both statements are true.

    21. Re:Autopilots in planes do not fly by themselves by Knuckles · · Score: 1

      The thing about CAT II/III autoland is that you are doing it at a fixed location along a known and restricted path and it can only be done under certain conditions, and you know the flight crew isn't using it as a chance to crack open some beers and pregame before they hit the layover hotel bar, they are paying attention in case they need to take over or initiate a go around. Just like Tesla's autopilot.

      Yeah and I'm sure everybody knows this and can therefore correctly infer the meaning in Teslas

      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
    22. Re:Autopilots in planes do not fly by themselves by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You also have to take into account that the pilots/drivers might have the same accident with or without the autopilot. There are lots of accidents each year caused by drivers.

      Like having a transport truck cross the highway across your path without waiting for the way to be clear first.

  6. IFR vs. VFR by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There is no IFR on the roads, and no "controlled road space" on motorways. How does that affect the aviation analogy?

  7. 1 out of 50 drivers don't understand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    98 percent of those surveyed "understand that when using Autopilot, the driver is expected to maintain control of the vehicle at all times."

    The remaining 2 percent of those surveyed replied, "My car has an autopilot? Sweet! No more designated driver bullshit!"

  8. Hooray only 2% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Will die.

  9. So 2% is considered reasonable then? by gordguide · · Score: 1

    The number should be 100% whom understand that you have to monitor the vehicle and be willing at any moment to (re)take control. Tesla is selling a couple hundred cars a month into Germany. Does Tesla Motors feel that there being 5 drivers every month who think you can push a button and then go on the Autobahn while watching a DVD and eating breakfast is OK?

    This is a big deal. It should be zero drivers thinking that way. And I mean ZERO. This is not vindication for Tesla, it's indicative of how they are thinking about this all wrong.

    1. Re:So 2% is considered reasonable then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This is a battle you cannot win. Just look at disposable coffee cups. "Caution : Hot" is written all over them. If we can't trust humans to safely "operate" a cup, I doubt we'll succeed with cars and autopilot.

    2. Re:So 2% is considered reasonable then? by SvnLyrBrto · · Score: 1

      If the lives of 10 other drivers are saved by the autopilot features then yes, it's a win even if those 5 Darwin themselves. And the data so far does indeed indicate that autopilot is a net win.

      While I don't own a Tesla, I have read the owner's manual. It is made quite clear that Tesla's autopilot is the automotive equivalent of the definition that has been in use for every autopilot in existence since decades ago. There is no claim, or even implication, of Knight Rider like functionality.

      --
      Imagine all the people...
    3. Re:So 2% is considered reasonable then? by dnaumov · · Score: 1

      The number should be 100% whom understand that you have to monitor the vehicle and be willing at any moment to (re)take control. Tesla is selling a couple hundred cars a month into Germany. Does Tesla Motors feel that there being 5 drivers every month who think you can push a button and then go on the Autobahn while watching a DVD and eating breakfast is OK?

      This is a big deal. It should be zero drivers thinking that way. And I mean ZERO. This is not vindication for Tesla, it's indicative of how they are thinking about this all wrong.

      The number of people who believe that Sun orbits the Earth is above zero. Ditto for the number of people who believe the Earth is flat.
      What are you going to do?

    4. Re:So 2% is considered reasonable then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In a separate but related survey, 97% of the people polled think that when you want to turn, you hit the turn signal indicator and the car will turn itself.

    5. Re:So 2% is considered reasonable then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How about there be a driver assist function AND it's not named in a way that is misleading to many (Tesla's self-interested survey notwithstanding)?

    6. Re:So 2% is considered reasonable then? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The number of people who believe that Sun orbits the Earth is above zero.

      And yet we require several nines of relyability for fault tolerant systems instead of a "not quite falling over right now". A system with high damage potential should be fool proof or in the case of a system requiring a license these things should be required knowledge for everyone having the license. Having one in fifty people go on a killing spree with several tons of death is just not acceptable, in contrast having some people believe the earth is flat is merely worth a headshake in this context.

    7. Re:So 2% is considered reasonable then? by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Unless Tesla has signed contracts from drivers as legal proof that they understand, a page in the instruction book doesn't cut it.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    8. Re:So 2% is considered reasonable then? by david_thornley · · Score: 1

      While I don't own a Tesla, I have read the owner's manual.

      How many drivers read the owner's manual?

      Heck, how many remember it all? I got a new car a couple of weeks ago, and read the section on displays and controls. I still don't know what some of those controls do, because there's too many to remember on one reading. I could easily have missed something like "don't set the adaptive cruise control and lane following assist and plan to spend the next hour surfing porn".

      --
      "When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
  10. For 1 good reason by Rik+Sweeney · · Score: 1, Informative

    The German for autopilot (autopilot) literally translates back into English as "Automatic, but still requires a pilot".

    1. Re:For 1 good reason by gnick · · Score: 1

      Google "autopilot definition". It'll lead you here:

      automatic pilot
      noun
      a device for keeping an aircraft on a set course without the intervention of the pilot.

      "Automatic, but still requires a pilot" is a more accurate definition, but where did you get it? I could see "autopilot" misleading some people, but hopefully nobody's dumb enough to actually abandon the wheel.

      --
      He's getting rather old, but he's a good mouse.
    2. Re:For 1 good reason by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      but hopefully nobody's dumb enough to actually abandon the wheel.

      You're more optimistic than I am. I think the part about "without the intervention of the pilot" would tend to give a lot of people exactly the wrong idea.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    3. Re:For 1 good reason by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      So, does the Flight version of Autopilot. Only idiots think that it is 100% ready. More importantly, all new owners are taught about all of these issues.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    4. Re:For 1 good reason by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The German for autopilot (autopilot) literally translates back into English as "Automatic, but still requires a pilot".

      Wrong.

      From Duden, http://www.duden.de/rechtschreibung/Autopilot: "automatische Steuerungsanlage in Flugzeugen, Raketen o.Ä."

      Translation: "automatic steering mechanism in airplanes, rockets, or similar."

    5. Re:For 1 good reason by sbrown7792 · · Score: 1

      Pilot 1: "Hey, that mountain is getting quite large in the window, should we do something about it?"
      Pilot 2: "Nah we're on autopilot! It keeps a set course without us touching anything!"

    6. Re:For 1 good reason by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Pilot 1: "Hey, that mountain is getting quite large in the window, should we do something about it?"
      Pilot 2: "Nah we're on autopilot! It keeps a set course without us touching anything!"

      1) Most commercial aircraft fly at altitudes where avoiding mountains isn't an issue. (There are no mountains at 36,000 feet that I know of.) Yes, some fly do lower but mountains aren't something that suddenly appear, disappear, or change without warning, unlike traffic conditions. You generally know about mountains in advance since they're been around for millions of years.

      2) There is such a thing as TFR, or terrain-following radar that does adjust for altitude. It's rarely used by ordinary passenger planes but there is no reason it couldn't be.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    7. Re:For 1 good reason by ZipK · · Score: 1

      Google "autopilot definition". It'll lead you here:

      Check other dictionaries and you'll find:

      "a device that steers a ship, aircraft, or spacecraft in place of a person" (m-w.com)
      "automatic pilot" (https://ahdictionary.com)
      "a device that keeps aircraft, spacecraft, and ships moving in a particular direction without human involvement" (dictionary.cambridge.org)

      More importantly, many lay people assume "automatic" means "without human intervention," hence it might be more suitable to use a name that proactively implies human monitoring and intervention, such as "driver assist." Why is Tesla so committed to sticking to this term if it isn't for the incorrect aura of computer automation?

    8. Re:For 1 good reason by sbrown7792 · · Score: 1

      While it was a hyperbole, the point I was trying to make is that the PIC has to be ready to take the control from autopilot in case "holding a set course" is no longer a good option.

      I agree that conditions change more rapidly driving than flying, however a feature set is a feature set, and shouldn't need to have a different name just because it is operating in a different environment. What needs to be changed is the minds of people who think that the feature set is completely autonomous and capable of high-level decision-making. These are probably the same type of people who thought that "Cruise Control" meant that the car was able of controlling their "cruise" (which is a common term for "drive" eg "I'm gonna go cruise around for a bit"), and promptly took their hands off the wheel after engaging cruise control when it was first released.

    9. Re:For 1 good reason by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      What needs to be changed is the minds of people who think that the feature set is completely autonomous and capable of high-level decision-making.

      It'll be easier and more effective to call it something that doesn't imply that it's an actual autopilot than it will be to educate hundreds of millions of people.

      Call it Driver Assist, Assisted Steering, something like that would probably help people realize that it's not an actual autopilot. The word "auto" or even "pilot" tend to imply a level of autonomy that will mislead people (even those who probably ought to know better). Part of this is all the hype in the media about "self driving" cars which tends to make people think that these things are actually self-driving. They are to some extent, but with significant limitations.

      -

      These are probably the same type of people who thought that "Cruise Control" meant that the car was able of controlling their "cruise"

      Exactly, which is all the more reason to call it something other than an "autopilot".

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    10. Re:For 1 good reason by Knuckles · · Score: 1

      More importantly, many lay people assume "automatic" means "without human intervention," hence it might be more suitable to use a name that proactively implies human monitoring and intervention, such as "driver assist." Why is Tesla so committed to sticking to this term if it isn't for the incorrect aura of computer automation?

      Yeah. People are not supposed to monitor the automatic gearbox at all times either, but suddenly it's so obvious that they do have to monitor the autopilot?

      --
      "When I first heard Daydream Nation it quite frankly scared the living shit out of me." -- Matthew Stearns
    11. Re:For 1 good reason by evilbessie · · Score: 1

      "An autopilot is a system used to control the trajectory of a vehicle without constant 'hands-on' control by a human operator being required."

      Note the 'without constant hands-on'. Newer aircraft are actually good at landing and taking off (assuming favourable weather) and may be arguably safer than human controlled, although conditions are not always favourable.

      Also note the 2% of customers, also known as early adopters and drinkers of Kool-Aid, not 2% of people.

    12. Re:For 1 good reason by sbrown7792 · · Score: 1

      These are probably the same type of people who thought that "Cruise Control" meant that the car was able of controlling their "cruise"

      Exactly, which is all the more reason to call it something other than an "autopilot".

      And yet the car makers haven't changed the name of cruise control, despite some initial confusion.
      After a few years, "Cruise Control" became synonymous with "Maintains your speed". Is it inconceivable that in a few years the term "Autopilot" will be universally known to mean "A suite of driver assist technologies"?

    13. Re:For 1 good reason by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      And yet the car makers haven't changed the name of cruise control, despite some initial confusion.

      Yeah, but it took 40 years of car crashes for that to sink in.

      The fact is that when most people hear "autopilot" they think of it as something that will literally drive the car for them with no attention required. Using that terminology is going to cause accidents.

      Why not avoid another 40 years of crashes by just naming it something that isn't misleading?

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
  11. 98% is terrible by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So 2 people in every 100 may get into a similar accident? Come on Tesla!

  12. Piloting and driving are different things by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Autopilot in planes doesn't have an expectation that the pilot's hands stay on the controls at all times. In fact, it's considered dangerous to have such a requirement, because pilots often have to use their hands for other things like writing or checking routes or etc. Having them do these things while requiring them to keep their hands on the controls would be dangerous, because it would be more likely that the pilot inadvertently bump the controls.

    In a car, however, it's generally not okay to do writing or checking routes while driving, and your hands should be on the controls at all times.

    Despite what Tesla says, the two autopilots are a lot different and have much different expectations of the users.

  13. Break it down. by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 3, Insightful

    While a real-life airplane autopilot just flies in a straight line, doing next to nothing, the term itself being broken into it's components literally means "self steering". Combine that how the term has been used culturally and it's not surprising that people would think that "autopilot" would be a fully autonomous driving mode.

    So while Tesla is technically correct in naming it, they have ignored the connotations connected to the name.

    Honestly, they should just rename it to "Copilot" and be done with the lawyering bullshit.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re:Break it down. by hyades1 · · Score: 1

      I rarely do the "what he said" thing, but in your case, I have to make an exception. What an excellent summary of the situation!

      --
      I've calculated my velocity with such exquisite precision that I have no idea where I am.
    2. Re:Break it down. by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Hmmm. I differ with the auto pilot description. In fact, Tesla only requires hands on to avoid the legal issues. And when you are in control of the cockpit, you STILL have to pay attention to either visual or instruments even when under AP and hands are not on controls.
      BUT, I do like the idea of calling this CURRENT version co-pilot. It really is not a bad way to go and does describe the sitaution better. Of course, in under another year, that will not matter.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    3. Re:Break it down. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There's also the problem that they market it as a self driving feature. And anybody who argues this, I'm going to throw the quote you Tesla fanbois like to throw when people say self driving cars aren't ready yet. "Teslas have driven 100 million miles with only 1 death". This is a direct conflict of terms. Either autopilot isn't a self driving feature and isn't marketed as one and as such Teslas have driven 0 miles. Or it's being marketed (incorrectly) as a self driving feature and they claim it's done 100 million miles. It can't be both. And fact is, they're trotting out that 100 million mile claim a lot, which implies very heavily that autopilot is in fact a self driving feature which they re-enforce by giving it a purposely confusing name.

    4. Re:Break it down. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, Tesla only requires hands on to avoid legal issues. And, you know, to avoid plowing in to the side of a truck at full speed. Unimportant detail, that.

    5. Re: Break it down. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There were two Tesla deaths just in the last week here in Indianapolis. One of the people who died, incidentally, slowly roasted in the passenger compartment while the lithium fire blazed.

    6. Re:Break it down. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While a real-life airplane autopilot just flies in a straight line, doing next to nothing, the term itself being broken into it's components literally means "self steering". Combine that how the term has been used culturally and it's not surprising that people would think that "autopilot" would be a fully autonomous driving mode.

      So while Tesla is technically correct in naming it, they have ignored the connotations connected to the name.

      Honestly, they should just rename it to "Copilot" and be done with the lawyering bullshit.

      No they should keep the name and we should all expect people to be less idiotic when buying or using products.

      "The name sounds like it would mean..." and "on bugs bunny something with the same name did..." are not valid bases for making life or death decisions.
      If you can't be arsed to actually read the products' own descriptions or at least have familiarity with other similar systems that actually exist, you are neglegent and should be held responsible for any damages your negligence causes.

    7. Re:Break it down. by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      o they should keep the name and we should all expect people to be less idiotic when buying or using products

      You can expect it all you want but it won't happen. You should be smart enough to realize that it won't. Furthermore, if you are profiting from a 4500 lb machine that depends on people understanding, then yes it is your problem that people won't understand it.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    8. Re:Break it down. by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      if you are paying attention, like you would have to do in a plane auto-pilot, then you simply take hold of the wheel again and avoid the truck. The problem with the Florida guy was that he was NOT paying attention. Auto-pilot in plane, ships, boats, and car means that you STILL HAVE TO WATCH.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  14. No room for extension by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I wonder how the advertisements it's going to sound in a couple of years ... Forget the autopilot, buy the new Tesla with TrueAutoPilot technology

  15. They do in the movies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I think the real problem is that for the average Joe, "autopilot" really does mean "100% autonomous" -- just like in the movies. And I think Tesla knew this -- they just couldn't resist using the term. Aside from what it implies on a technical level, it's powerful marketing. No comment on whether Tesla is guilty of any wrongdoing.

  16. Isn't that exactly what it means? by ionymous · · Score: 1

    "as he felt the term implied that drivers could operate their vehicles without applying their attention to the roads."
    The only reason I'd want a car with autopilot is so I don't have to apply attention to the roads.
    I've seen videos of people with autopilot and their hands are hovering around the steering wheel and they look nervous.
    If that's how we're expected to use autopilot then that sucks. I wanted to be able to read a book, watch TV, surf the net, or work on my laptap.

  17. On the other hand... by kimvette · · Score: 1

    Doesn't a flight certificate still require quite a bit of ground school and then 40 hours of flight time with an instructor before you fly solo to qualify JUST for VFR, and then a whole bunch more to gain IFR certs, which is when you would be qualified to engage an autopilot? Pilots are slightly more clueful than the average yokel who barely passes the written test for their license and then their practical test consists of literally a drive around the block and then "parallel parking" where there are no other vehicles on the road. Drivers' Ed is not required... at least here in America.

    I know in Germany that it's a bit more rigorous, but not nearly as intensive as training to earn a flight certificate so it doesn't surprise me that the people who do the bare minimum to qualify for a drivers' license might think that a vehicles "autopilot" (or even cruise control) means that you can watch a movie or take a nap.

    People are stupid. See: Brexit, Trump, etc.

    --
    The Christian Right is Neither (Christian nor right). See: Matthew 23, Matthew 25, Ezekiel 16:48-50
    1. Re:On the other hand... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People are stupid. See people who think Brexit, Trump, etc are stupid.

  18. 98% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Only 2% will die from being stupid. This is good for Aryan race.

    1. Re:98% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Only 2% will die from being stupid.

      You're forgetting the 'innocent' victims they take with them.

  19. 2% failure rate by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

    So out of one million people driving cars on the road, only 20,000 of them will think they can drink booze, read a book, or doze off while in the car?

    What could go wrong, it's only 2%.

    --
    Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    1. Re:2% failure rate by cellocgw · · Score: 1

      So out of one million people driving cars on the road, only 20,000 of them will think they can drink booze, read a book, or doze off while in the car?

      I know you're being sarcastic here, but this is a prime example of the Prosecutor's Fallacy .
      Right now, I'd bet that more than 2% of USAian drivers think they can do all that in their non-auto-anything car. You have to balance failure rates against rates of existence in the entire dataset.

      --
      https://app.box.com/WitthoftResume Code: https://github.com/cellocgw
    2. Re:2% failure rate by JustAnotherOldGuy · · Score: 1

      Right now, I'd bet that more than 2% of USAian drivers think they can do all that in their non-auto-anything car.

      Yes, and all of those things are illegal, falling under "negligent driving" or other similar statutes. Just because you think you can do it doesn't mean you can (or should).

      -

      You have to balance failure rates against rates of existence in the entire dataset.

      Be sure to explain that to the doctors in the Emergency Room while they're trying to save your life or the life of your wife, children, etc. after the result of an "autopilot-related" accident.

      --
      Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
    3. Re:2% failure rate by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      When you are talking about someone living or not living, you don't need to 'balance' you need to be 100% sure.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    4. Re:2% failure rate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People will counter that 100% is unrealistic. However a realistic value has at least two or three nines and getting people from 98% "it is not missleading" to 99.9% only minimally distracted while driving with autopilot engaged is going to be hard.

    5. Re:2% failure rate by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      It's not realistic because Autopilot is not consistent with human nature. That should be the giant red flag right there. It doesn't mean that we should lower our standards of safety, it means that the onus should be on Tesla to change their system so that it is consistent with human nature and they can say 100%.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  20. 98% is supposed to be low??? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    98% is supposed to be LOW???

    If you drive a typical drive and have like... 200 cars in your area while driving (not unlikely) that is 4 morons who think they do not need to pay attention.

  21. Go audit yourself by mi · · Score: 1

    Are we supposed to trust Tesla's own results of testing Tesla's product? Seriously? 98% is entirely too low in such circumstances, Saddam Hussein got 100%...

    Medicare administrators too, for example, would've liked us to think, the program loses only about 1% of its budget to "fraud, waste, and abuse" (better to claim the government being more efficient than KKKorporations) while the independent audits show figures of at least 6% (or even 10%).

    --
    In Soviet Washington the swamp drains you.
    1. Re:Go audit yourself by dywolf · · Score: 1

      Medicare IS more efficient that private insurers.
      that's an established fact agreed upon by both sides of the aisle.
      the most efficient sector of the US health care system is Medicare, a single payer system, even at the 10% value.

      whatever point you're trying to make here, it's not working.

      --
      The guy who said the election was rigged won the presidency with the second-most votes.
  22. give me a break; it is 100% by WindBourne · · Score: 1

    The fact is, that all of the sold cars come with training. In that, they spend 1-2 hours teaching you about the car as well as going for drives and teaching the autopilot and how to use it.
    When we took our 2013 tesla in for servicing, they gave us a new MS loaner. We had a 2-4 minute training on the autopilot and we were good to go. And it was just fine.
    My gut says that the 2% are simply ppl trying to skew things and feigning stupidity.

    --
    I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    1. Re:give me a break; it is 100% by avandesande · · Score: 1

      Do they do this training when you sell used?

      --
      love is just extroverted narcissism
    2. Re:give me a break; it is 100% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My gut says that the 2% are simply ppl trying to skew things and feigning stupidity.

      Or they ordered their car online and did not get any training. From your posting history you are not in Europe and may life in Amerika where Tesla has a lot more resources to train its customers than elsewhere over the world.

    3. Re: give me a break; it is 100% by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Nope. I'm American, but talk to other Tesla owners from Norway, Sweden, Estonia, Germany, france, and Spain. They all describe the same training. Basically, they drop the car off at your house and then give u 1-3 hours of training.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    4. Re: give me a break; it is 100% by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      Btw, Tesla is only sold online.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
    5. Re: give me a break; it is 100% by WindBourne · · Score: 1

      We bought used from a Porsche dealer. We did NOT get the training, but I heard that we can go to service station and they will do so. When u buy from Tesla used, they treat it like new car with exception that you can pick up right away rather than having it delivered to house.

      --
      I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
  23. That's terrible by Solandri · · Score: 1

    Let's assume Tesla is modestly successful and ends up with 1% of car market share. That's 430,000 of Germany's 43 million cars. 2% of 430,000 = 8600 Teslas out there being driven on autopilot with the driver reading a newspaper or watching a movie or napping because s/he is not among the 98% who realize they need to be watching the road and ready to take control of the car when using the feature.

    If anything, this supports the German government's argument that Tesla should stop using the term "autopilot".

  24. Useless number if we don't know the exact question by DavidMZ · · Score: 1

    It is very easy to manipulate polls in order to get results with the desired bias, so the results are meaningless if we don't know exactly the details of the survey.

    For instance, the question: "Do you understand that when using Autopilot, the driver is expected to maintain control of the vehicle at all times?" will wield much different results than the question: "When using Autopilot, how often do you remove your hands from the driving wheel?"

  25. Running on autopilot by wired_parrot · · Score: 1

    When people use the expression "he's on autopilot" they tend to mean someone who's just going through the motions without being mentally engaged. In a popular sense, autopilot is used for any task that is running without active engagement. E.g. a business running on autopilot, to mean a business functioning without active engagement. What matters is how the term is popularly used, not how it is used in a particular technical context.

    I suspect the real reason Tesla wants to hang on to "Autopilot" term, is that it allows them to subtly market this function as a self-driving vehicle without explicitly saying so by playing on the misunderstanding of the term by laypeople. This allows them to have it regulated as a cruise control device, instead of the more stringent safety and reliability standards that a self-driving car would have to meet.

  26. What about the 2% by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Was it not a German pilot, who used the Autopilot to crash a plane?

  27. Push Poll by mentil · · Score: 1

    Pollster: "Sir, you own a Tesla car according to our records. You are aware, of course, that the Autopilot feature requires a human to be fully alert and ready to take control of the vehicle at all times, aren't you, sir?"

    Consumer: "Umm.... why YES... yes, of course. I knew that. Yeah, that's the ticket..."

    Pollster: "Ok, just confirming that." *ticks off 'consumer was properly-informed' checkbox*

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
  28. What meaning does 'than' have in your language? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What meaning does 'than' have in your language?

    The number of posts explaining English grammar and vocabulary that are themselves inaccurate is hilarious, or would be if they didn't keep getting uprated.

  29. Re: What meaning does 'than' have in your language by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm guessing that twistnatz is a native German speaker who also speaks English whereas you're limited to just English. And you think you're speaking from a position of superiority.

  30. Driver assist by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    With all the cars on the road, two percent is a lot.
    If you are one of the people that thinks that they are expendable because they are not as smart as you, keep in mind that they might not get themselves killed in an accident, they might crash into you.

    Even though it might be incorrect, most people are not pilots, and may believe autopilot does more than it really does. I know, but in a popular culture kind of way, I think it sounds like it should do everything. Driver assist or driver assistance is far less likely to be misunderstood.

  31. Mislead by cwsumner · · Score: 1

    That's because they were all mislead by the name, and don't know yet.